Eleven more U.S. soldiers died one day last week in Iraq in five separate incidents.
You have to ask: For what? For a botched policy that few of our nation’s “leaders” of either party would admit until recently is a colossal failure?
Sen. John Kerry’s courageous words challenging our leaders at the end of the Vietnam War sound more relevant than ever: “How can you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?”
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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135 Comments
The best support for our troops is to bring them home today. If we don’t bring them home, only more will be killed and that is unfair.
In the end, the Iraqis will solve their own problems, with or without the deaths and maiming of our troops.
The rest is politics.
Is Bush’s face worth saving?
At this point, is there really anyone so myopic as to believe we’re going to prevail in Iraq? As Ed indicates, it’s wrong to ask even one more of our servicemen and women to die to support the cause of a corrupt and failed administration. Will a lot of Iraqis die if we pull out now? Probably, but they’re dying in droves now. This is a self-correcting situation. Either they stop killing eachother because they conclude it’s counterproductive, or they run out of people to kill. Neither result is counter to our interests.Would pulling out destabilize the region?
As if it were stable now.
“Sen. John Kerry’s courageous words challenging our leaders at the end of the Vietnam War sound more relevant than ever: “How can you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?”
I must need an interpreter for Kerry’s quote because,like most of the stuff that comes out of his mouth, it makes no sense. Courageous, Randy?
The whole Iraq situation is a mess that needs to be cleaned up. Intelligently. Thoughtfully. Quickly.
But how easy it appears to be for Randy Scholfield to suggest that the sacrifice of our soldiers in the service of our country is meaningless.
Please explain how any of these soldier’s sacrifice has been meaningful.
“Please explain how any of these soldier’s sacrifice has been meaningful.” Posted by: John Smith | December 10, 2006 at 08:06 AM
Okay Mr. Generic name with the generic question, let me ask you some questions.
Explain how any of the teenager’s death in car wrecks are meaningful.
Explain how cancer afflcting children is meaningful.
Explain why there are so many abusive families that raise children.
Explain why there are tens of thousands of deaths in the U.S. due to car accidents.
Explain why any of the above questions in any shape or form describe a meaningful death.
Note to Mr. Schofield, John Kerry’s world were considered traiterous back then as he accused all soldiers of being baby killers. He also associated with the North Vietnamese while he still had an obligation with the military. That my friend is an act of treason and he should have been courtmartialed.
The North Vietnamese came to the peace talks in Paris after Nixon had massive B-52 runs under the guise of operation Linebacker I and II.
Oh yeah, some around here lived during that time, was in Southeast Asia and knows what actually happened.
My internal dialogue about this war paraphrases much of what John Kerry said about the Vietnam war. If we liken this war to a football game - in the first few minutes of the game we knocked out their quarterback. “Wow” we thought. We are going to roll on to another win. As we play out the first period we slightly notice that our opponent is scrappy and determined. In the 2nd period, out of no-where, our opponent gangs up and violently takes out our defensive ends. We look around for a referee to throw a flag. The referee’s are no-where to be found. We’re told they left the game or risked harm to their family. “Jeez” we say. We run and tell our coach that something weird is going on. Our opponent is breaking the rules and are intent on injuring our players. Our coach responds that “we came to play” and we need to keep playing as hard as we can. “We haven’t lost a game in 30+ years and we’re not going to lose a game while I’m the coach.”In the second period we lost our entire first string defensive team to violant injury. Our opponent gouged our eyes, stepped on our faces, group kicked anyone who was down, even pulled some of our young fans from the sideline and bloodied their faces. It was a grueling period. Neither team had scored any points. Some of us were starting to believe that our opponent was not interested in scoring a touchdown. They seemed to enjoy inflicting pain.The 2nd period ended. 13 of our first-string players were on the bench with game ending injuries.No one has scored. We have advanced the ball 205 yards. Our opponent has advanced the ball 0 yards.The strangest thing happened at the end of the 2nd period - our coach jumped in the back of his pick-up truck with the assistant coach driving, and drove around the field with a banner stating “GAME OVER!!” “WE WON!”.Our team was confused? Did our opponent forfeit? Did someone call the game? How could we win if we have not scored any points?We all stood in shock when we learned that our coach did not realize there were four quarters/two halves to a game. Our coach thought halftime was the end of the game. He waved his victory banner because he never considered any other outcome. Oddly though, we knew the assistant coach knew better.Before the third period began, our assistant coach took over the game. He said our coach had made prior arrangements to go on vacation after the second quarter and was not able to stay for the game. The AC said the coach would watch the game from his on-flight television.
Our assistant coach was a different guy. We never knew what he was thinking. He held his cards very close, so to speak. Before we took the field to start the second half, the assistant coach gave us a speech. He told us we were the neo-ballers. He built our confidence by telling us that our opponents were “in the last throws of their strategy” and that we should stand firm, hold our own, play hard, and we will win. He never looked at our injured men, who sat bloodied listening to his every word. I thought that was odd.We returned to the field to find our opponent had 300 players suited up on the sideline. The uniforms did not match. It appeared that players from all the different teams had shown up to play. We were down 13 players and had no replacements. We all hoped our Coach, while on his plane, would call some of the other teams from our league.We need to win this game but realistically it seemed like we were up against their entire league.I volunteered to tell our concern to the assistant coach. It was futile. His exact words to me were “go fuck yourself.”The defense coach told me to wake up to new strategies. We could win this game with fewer players. I went back to the huddle to report the news - the guys took it hard. One players asked me if while I was on the sideline, did I see any water bottles. I said “no.” Somehow, one of the senior level game planners forgot to bring water to the game. We would just have to play hard and not focus on what is missing.At the end of the third period I noticed the school principle, Mr. Bove, climbing up the scoreboard. He changed the score from 0-0 to 78-0. He gave us 78 unneared points. Then I noticed him calling the assistant coach and defensive coach over to the scoreboard. The local newspaper reporter and photographer were just arriving. In a matter of minuted, the photographer snapped pics of the two coaches in front of the scoreboard. They talked to the reporter and spoke happily and confidently about our big win.In the huddle the guys asked me to go to the two coaches and let them know we are struggling. I reported this to the two coaches. They screamed at me - calling me a whiner, a quiter, and told me they would let everyone know that I was a loser if I didn’t get back in the game.Being young and impressionable, I ran back to the huddle and screamed the same admonishments at my teammates.Well, now we are in the fourth quarter, we haven’t scored. We’ve managed to take out their quarterback….and that’s about all.Our sideline is empty. I’m told there are a lot of people lining up to be our coach. I keep asking myself, why is the team still playing the game, while the coaches come and go? A drink of water would be nice too.
>The best support for>our troops is to bring>them home today. If we>don’t bring them home,>only more will be killed>and that is unfair.
According to the Iraq Study Group, this would be a tragedy. It would throw Iraq into instant chaos and civil war as many groups fought over supreme power, and that would be unfair.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061209/ts_nm/iran_usa_iraq_dc
I am not concerned about Iraqi lives. I am concerned about American lives. Sounds harsh but the line needs to be drawn.
>Please explain how any>of these soldier’s>sacrifice has been meaningful.
Vicious dictator ousted and on trial.
No more rape rooms.
No more torture chambers.
No more gassing of entire countries.
Two free elections in Iraq.
Nearly everyone in Iraq now has cell phones.
New schools being built daily.
Oh, and we did find WMD’s.
Bill,Based on your assessment, I think I will plan my next vacation in Bhagdad.
>I am not concerned about>Iraqi lives.
That is rather obvious, but I am, George Bush is and most of the American soldiers who VOLUNTEERED for the military are. Many soldiers VOLUNTEERED for the military on Sep 12, 2001 knowing they would go fight the bad guys and knowing they might die. They are the heros that willingly give their lives for our freedom. This is something most don’t have the guts to do.
Oh, and according to John Kerry, Saddam Hussein was a direct threat to the USA.
>Bill,>Based on your assessment,>I think I will plan my next >vacation in Bhagdad.
Baghdad is certainly safer right now than New York City, Chicago, St. Louis or Washington D.C.
That is a fact.
The men from the Swift Boats were correct. Kerry was and is a traitor. Look at who supports Kerry. The likes of Scholfield. If there is a bigger flaming Lib, I don’t know who it would be.You people make me sick.Libs = If we lose, that would be great because then we can hate Bush and American even more.
“Cut-off the money.”
fleetwoood? bill? JM?
Hey boys pick up your rifles and some hard tack. Get thee on over there to your crusade. Enough with the keyboard courage. Go, fight! “win” whatever that looks like.
If we get out in the next year of so, the damned region might shake itself out enough that my kid doesn’t end up over there fighting YOUR war.
Your kid will only go if he volunteers to join the military. It’s a volunteer military, remember?
And you are a traitor if you don’t encourage your kids to join!
Looks like fleettwood is still posting his usual hateful and bogus right-wing BS that he cannot prove. Oh well…
And it’s a volunteer military NOW, but the draft may be needed in the future.
May be? Hogwash. It will not happen. Prove it.
>Looks like fleettwood is>still posting his usual>hateful and bogus right-wing>BS that he cannot prove. Oh >well…
Was that the most logical response you could muster?
>And it’s a volunteer military >NOW, but the draft may be>needed in the future.
America may be nuked in the future.
The polar ice caps may melt in the future.
Jesus may come back in the future.
Hillary Clinton may become President in the future.
An asteroid may destroy the earth in the future.
Maybe being stuck in Iraq for a couple more years isn’t such a bad things. I can see the Democratic campaign slogan now:Iraq: This war brought to you by your friends in the GOP.
IF we continue to meddle in the Iraqi civil war that george bush caused, there is a very real possiblility of a mideast regional general war. THAT your all volunteer army does NOT have the numbers for.
You forgot, cosmos may make sense in the future.
Between yesterday’s love fest with Clinton and today’s love fest with Kerry, Scholfield is going to need a stomach pump.
fleettwood,
Prove the draft will NOT happen.
Unions oppose ‘draft’ of federal workers to Iraqhttp://federaltimes.com/index.php?S=2412021“The Iraq Study Group’s recommendation that the Bush administration consider ordering government civilians to Iraq has drawn outrage from federal employees’ unions.” (continues)
Fleetttwood seems to like that word “traitor.” By his logic about 200 million Americans are traitors.
That’s how many oppose this war of imperialism and aggression in Iraq.
For folks who want to take a stroll down memory lane, I highly recommend “Uncovered: the whole truth about the war in Iraq.” It’s great entertainment seeing Bush, Rummy, Cheney, Rice, Wolfowitz repeating lie after lie about WMD’s, WMD factories, unqualified absolute assurances that Saddam has these weapons and facilities and “can deliver them in as little as 45 minutes.” “If we wait for the final proof, the smoking gun, a mushroom cloud over an American city, we will have waited too long.”
All these lies are methodically taken apart by former CIA bureau chiefs and high level security personnel.
Randy made an error — this war isn’t a “mistake,” it is a LIE from start to finish.
Jim G,
In spite of the blindness of others here, your analogy was great.
For Bill and the rest of the unseeing here…
“Vicious dictator ousted and on trial.”Too bad we can’t do the same to ours.
“No more rape rooms.”Except for the ones that were/are ours.
“No more torture chambers.”Except for the ones we have in other countries.
“No more gassing of entire countries.”Which entire country was gassed?
“Two free elections in Iraq.”Yes, voting cards tied into food cards. Maybe we should try it here.
“Nearly everyone in Iraq now has cell phones.”Wow, they have cell phones! Little water, little electricity, but at least they can call each other to bitch about what they don’t have.
“New schools being built daily.”Now all they need are hospitals and doctors so they’ll be someone to attend those new schools (which are bombed daily). Teachers might be nice, too.
“Oh, and we did find WMD’s.”Under the desk?
“Baghdad is certainly safer right now than New York City, Chicago, St. Louis or Washington D.C.”
Uh-huh. Have you talked to any of the troops who have recently returned from Baghdad? Is that what they told you? ‘Cause that isn’t what I’ve heard from them. How many IEDs are going off in NYC and the rest on a daily basis? Even the worst part of those cities don’t look like Baghdad does.
Go ahead. Live in your fantasy world of We’re-Winning-the-War-and Democracy-for-Iraq.
We did the militant people of Iraq a favor by removing Saddam for them. They have the freedom now that they’ve wanted…Freedom to fight a civil war and blow each other and anyone else in the area to bits.
Wave those flags, boys!
“John Kerry(’s)…as he accused all soldiers of being baby killers.”
More revisionist history, JM?
Bill,
fleet never supports his opinions with credible facts, or logic. Why should I waste my time on his troll posts?
Arctic ice IS melting NOW, no “maybe” about it.’Arctic sea ice on the wane: Now what?’http://nasadaacs.eos.nasa.gov/articles/2006/2006_seaice.html
‘Iraq Study Group chairs defend report vs. critics’http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N10458803.htmFormer Secretary of State James Baker: “In our view, and in our study of the problem, we concluded that additional forces of over 50,000 more combat troops were simply not available to us”.
Also, more troops are needed in Afghanistan.Ask for more volunteers, or start the draft?
“Many soldiers VOLUNTEERED for the military on Sep 12, 2001 knowing they would go fight the bad guys and knowing they might die.”
And those soldiers believed they were going to fight in Afghanistan.
You know, I get up every morning, knowing I might die. Because of people like you, the likelyhood of that is even higher.
“They are the heros that willingly give their lives for our freedom.”
That is the dumbest remark I’ve heard yet. First, they aren’t willingly giving their lives unless they’re standing out in the open, unarmed and begging to be killed. Second, the “war” in Iraq does not and never has had anything to do with our freedom. In fact, this fiasco as endangered us even more. Recruitment for Al Qaeda is rapidly rising. If Bush has accomplished anything, he’s grown terrorism by leaps and bounds.
So why aren’t you over there willingly giving your life, Bill? There’s no age limit for volunteers, and health problems aren’t a big concern, either. So what’s YOUR excuse?
Dang! I’m going back to bed. My spelling and typing are unreal this morning.
Let the idiots rant. They are now the minority in this country. Their pitiful voices are being drowned out by those who dare to see the truth and repeat it.
John Kerry had the balls 30 years ago to stand up to Washington and we label him a traitor. Bill has the balls to stand up to an invisible blog.As for our troops volunteering to fight…there is one small problem. They, like me, like many of us, expected the Commander in Chief to be compentent. What a shitty deal our troops got.It was just over a month ago that we were winning in Iraq, all was well, “full steam ahead”, yada yada yada….and now Bushy sounds like the democrats. He flip flopped on his lie. He flip flopped. Period. Why, because the flop is the truth and the flip was a lie.The lies have been proven. Heck, just listen to their speeches.WMD’s? Hans Blix said there weren’t any…and he was over there looking for them before the war ever started. Ha HA!! What the hell! Isn’t that a reason to impeach?George Bush is a sorry sorry liar and he will be proven in 2007 to be much worse, an arrogant war monger.Let’s see…walk down the street safely in NYC or go with Bill to walk down street in Bhagdad? Hmm? Bill, you go your way, and I’ll go mine.
holy crap…I mis-spelled competent in my earlier post.
The problem as I see it is regardless of what was going on internally in Iraq prior to our invading, the country is in much worse shape now.
Despite JM’s ridiculous attempt to equate car deaths, cancer victims, et al, with one single soldiers death, Bill’s (whoever, or whatever, he is) just as ridiculous discription of the new hollywood east, Bhagdad, Iraq has more terrorists in it then it ever did before we invaded.
We have created a situation where no matter what we do, we have turned countries against us, and that will not be easy to overcome. Iraq is going to explode, of that I am sure, but what comes out of the ashes to try to put it back together is anybody’s guess.
As such, our soldiers should be brought home as fast as possible and out of harms way. Iraq was not our fight and never should have been. As XXX said, let them fight it out. We need our soldiers home to protect this land; we need them to help in places like Dufar, where wholesale slaughter rules the day, and protection of it’s people is desperatly needed. We need our armed forces trained and prepared so if some terrorist organization attacks us again, we can respond instantly with everything we have.
Iraq should never have happened. End it now.
I agree with Johnny Walker Red.
The problem with this subject is that most or all of you don’t really know what it’s like over there. My husband is there now. If you believe what the press writes, you only get about 1% of the story.
Iraq is moving forward every day. The military is doing the right thing. They are training Iraqis to defend themselves. They are making a difference.
John Kerry is and always will be a traitor. Those of you that continually disgrace the military by putting it down and by saying the president is incompetent are just plain wrong.
The best support for our troops is to bring them home today. If we don’t bring them home, only more will be killed and that is unfair.
In the end, the Iraqis will solve their own problems, with or without the deaths and maiming of our troops.
The congress is afraid to go against the Israeli Lobby { AIPAC } and vote against the Iraqi slaughter or cut-off it’s funding. President Jimmy Cater is in position to know what he’s talking about when he let that “cat out of the bag.”
The WSJ, Neocons, and the Zionists all started squealing in unison.
Now the MSM can’t seem to find that cat.Here,… Kitty, Kitty,… Kitty Kitty…
Concerned_Mom,
Where is your husband stationed in Iraq? What branch of the service? And what are his job duties?
I ask because I’ve spoken with several who have returned from Iraq, and what you posted is not what I’ve been hearing.
Sorry, that was for ConcernedMom. I typed it wrong.
How is wanting our troops home disgracing our military?
ConcernedMom,
Is this the other 99%?
“The nineteen months since the war in Iraq began, some of the most outspoken critics of President Bush’s plan of attack have come from a group that should have been the most supportive: retired senior military leaders. We spoke with a group of generals and admirals that included a former supreme Allied commander and a former chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and they all agreed on one thing: Bush screwed up.”
And that’s an OLD piece of news.http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/6593163/the_generals_speak/
If Generals are retiring early and speaking out, are THEY disgracing the military?
Seems to me that it’s you who are listening to the 1% of Rush too much.
“Baghdad is certainly safer right now than New York City, Chicago, St. Louis or Washington D.C.
That is a fact.”
No Bill, that is a LIE.
fleettwood = if we lose blame the libs, never acknowledge the folly of the cokehead’s war
I bet this war is like Nam, you may be there, but only a small fraction are involved in the nitty gritty down and nasty, the vast majority are tucked away in the base camp, safe from everything but possibly getting hit by a mortar round, not too high a probability. I suspect these are the ones who come back, or write letters gung ho on how great we’re doing!
Very true steve. My stepbrother went over to ‘Nam gung-ho; came back anti-war.
Here I am, the soldier in Iraq, and I have a few things to say.
First of all, there are no WMDs in Iraq. There are just an awful lot of poor, out-of-work people who like to kill eachother over trivial religious differences.
The average Iraqi doesn’t appreciate the values we do, i.e. free speech, freedom of religion, etc… Their society is based on tribal traditions which are very different and very violent by our standards. The bottom line is they DO NOT think or reason like we do, and it is hard for the average American to comprehend the differences.
The mental revolution that brought Western Society out of the Dark Ages took HUNDREDS OF YEARS, and the Iraqis are just barely scratching the surface of that process. It was naive of us to think that we could make another US in Iraq because our leaders do not comprehend these fundamental differences.
I, and many soldiers like me, do not believe the war is or was justified, and regardless how it turns out, the blood is on our hands.
Thank you for posting, Andrew.
One should not try to occupy a land without some basic knowledge of the culture, Bush is a slow learner, and I doubt he was ever a good student of social sciences or geopolitics. His mission creep from overthrowing the Baathist and Saddam was inexcusable, and ignorant.
I can’t remember where, but I saw some news show about how most members of the FBI did not know or understand the differences between Shi’a and Sunni Muslims.And I would be surprised if Bush could either.
Good point Andrew. Even I have trouble really understanding the differences and I know several of both varieties. Personally I think it is just as stupid as Catholics and Protestants killing each other in Ireland.
>fleettwood,
>Prove the draft will>NOT happen.
There goes another pathetic Liberal statement. “Prove the negative.”
It would be much easier to prove it WILL happen, but of course you cannot do that. If you can’t prove the positive, how on earth can anyone prove the negative?
Of course, you knew this, didn’t you?
Bill,You have proven to all of us that you are very ignorant.
Jim G.,re “Bill”, I’ll second that.
“Vicious dictator oustedand on trial.”
>Too bad we can’t do>the same to ours.
Who are you referring to as a dictator? Before you answer this, look up the word “dictator.”
>”No more rape rooms.”>Except for the ones that>were/are ours.
Where?
“No more torture chambers.”Except for the ones wehave in other countries.
Where?
>”No more gassing of>entire countries.”>Which entire country>was gassed?
http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/16/clinton.iraq.speech/
>”Two free elections in>Iraq.”
>Yes, voting cards tied>into food cards.
Cite please.
>”Nearly everyone in Iraq>now has cell phones.”
>Wow, they have cell>phones! Little water,>little electricity,>but at least they can>call each other to>bitch about what they>don’t have.
Their water and electricity was restored long ago.
>”New schools being built>daily.”
Now all they need arehospitals and doctorsso they’ll be someoneto attend those newschools (which arebombed daily).
That is a lie.
>”Oh, and we did>find WMD’s.”
>Under the desk?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html
“Baghdad is certainly safer right now than New York City, Chicago, St. Louis or Washington D.C.”
>Uh-huh. Have you talked>to any of the troops>who have recently>returned from Baghdad?
Stevie Nicks has. She visits the troops at Walter Reed Hospital on a regular basis. She has not met a single soldier that says he wouldn’t go right back if they could.
http://www.nicksfix.com (click on Journal:WRAMC)
>’Cause that isn’t what>I’ve heard from them.
You haven’t talked to any of them. You are believing what you are hearing from the Democrats who only want your votes. You haven’t talked to any soldiers at all.
>How many IEDs are going>off in NYC and the rest>on a daily basis?
How many people are being killed by drunk drivers and armed robbers in Baghdad?
>Even the worst part of>those cities don’t look>like Baghdad does.
That all depends on where you look.
>Go ahead. Live in your>fantasy world of>We’re-Winning-the-War-and >Democracy-for-Iraq.
Go ahead and live in your fantasy world of “Bush is responsible for everything from terrorism to global warming.”
>We did the militant people>of Iraq a favor by removing >Saddam for them. They have>the freedom now that>they’ve wanted…Freedom>to fight a civil war and>blow each other and anyone>else in the area to bits.
Gee, that sounds like America.
>Arctic ice IS melting NOW, >no “maybe” about it.
Yes it is. What you fail to mention is that as it is melting is some areas it is thickening in others. The glaciers around Antarctica and Greenland are getting bigger. This is all part of the natural earth cycles. The Democrats don’t want you to know that though.
Whatever Bill…
>”Many soldiers VOLUNTEERED>for the military on Sep>12, 2001 knowing they>would go fight the bad>guys and knowing they>might die.”
>And those soldiers believed>they were going to fight>in Afghanistan.
Wrong. Lie. Start over. On September 12, 2001, the word that bin Laden was responsible hadn’t even come out yet. The soldiers had absolutely no idea where they were going to go. They knew there orders may have taken them anywhere in the world.
>You know, I get up every>morning, knowing I might>die. Because of people>like you, the likelyhood>of that is even higher.
Oh yea, like I have absolutely no control over this war. All I’m doing is supporting the troops, and according to you, because I support the troops, you stand a better chance of dying. Yea, right.
>”They are the heros that >willingly give their lives>for our freedom.”
>That is the dumbest remark>I’ve heard yet. First, they >aren’t willingly giving>their lives unless they’re>standing out in the open,>unarmed and begging to be>killed.
Now there is a dumb remark. They go to war knowing they may die and they enlist in the military knowing they may die. They are indeed willingly giving their lives for our freedom. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t enlist. Think about it, oh ignorant one.
>Second, the “war” in Iraq>does not and never has had >anything to do with our>freedom.
According to John Kerry and all the Democrats, it has everything to do with our freedom since according to them, Saddam was an imminent threat to the USA with chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.
>In fact, this fiasco as >endangered us even more.
Got any reliable supporting cites? I didn’t think so.
>Recruitment for Al Qaeda is >rapidly rising.
Cite please.
>So why aren’t you over>there willingly giving>your life, Bill?
Because I already served in Vietnam, Bozo. You remember Vietnam, don’t you? The war that JFK and LBJ started that never accomplished a damn thing except putting 58,000 names on a wall. I am now too old and crippled to ship off to Iraq.
>There’s no age limit for >volunteers, and health>problems aren’t a big>concern, either.
You are such a liar.
>So what’s YOUR excuse?
I was shot in the hip and am now in a wheelchair. How many people do you see on the news toting an M-16 while using both hands to roll the wheelchair?
>John Kerry had the balls>30 years ago to stand>up to Washington and we>label him a traitor.
That’s correct. Because of John Kerry and Hanoi Jane Fonda’s public ranting, he was giving the enemy more reason to kill US soldiers.
>The lies have been proven.
Name one.
>Heck, just listen to their >speeches. WMD’s? Hans Blix>said there weren’t any
Hans Blix was from France and France didn’t want us to go to war with Iraq. Why? Because they were selling arms to Iraq. So was Russia and Germany. Guess who in the UN was against this war? France, Russia and Germany! Holy Moley, Batman!
>and he was over there>looking for them before>the war ever started.
But yet he found every single item nessessary to build WMD’s. Missiles, chemicals, mobile weapons labs and warheads. But since he never found any WMD’s all put together and poised on a launcher, the Dims claim we never found any.
>What the hell! Isn’t that a >reason to impeach?
No.
>George Bush is a sorry>sorry liar
Name one single George Bush lie.
>Let’s see…walk down>the street safely in>NYC or go with Bill>to walk down street>in Bhagdad? Hmm? Bill,>you go your way, and>I’ll go mine.
You walk down the street in NYC and I guarantee you’ll get run over by a car within five seconds. Meanwhile I’ll be sitting at a restaraunt in Baghdad enjoying some pasta.
“The problem with this subject is that most or all of you don’t really know what it’s like over there. My husband is there now. If you believe what the press writes, you only get about 1% of the story.
Iraq is moving forward every day. The military is doing the right thing. They are training Iraqis to defend themselves. They are making a difference.
John Kerry is and always will be a traitor. Those of you that continually disgrace the military by putting it down and by saying the president is incompetent are just plain wrong.”
Well said from a wife of a soldier now serving.
Look at this pathetic “clip and paste” from ConcernedMom:
“The best support for our troops is to bring them home today. If we don’t bring them home, only more will be killed and that is unfair.”
The best support for our troops is to bring them home today. If we don’t bring them home, only more will be killed and that is unfair.
In the end, the Iraqis will solve their own problems, with or without the deaths and maiming of our troops.”
Hey CM: Do you get a thrill out of plagerizing the very first comment in this thread?
>Sorry, that was for>ConcernedMom. I typed>it wrong.
>How is wanting our troops>home disgracing our>military?
Because an immediate pullout would show weakness and throw Iraq into instant chaos and a big power stuggle would begin. This according to the Iraq Study Group.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061209/ts_nm/iran_usa_iraq_dc
>”Baghdad is certainly safer>right now than New York City, >Chicago, St. Louis or>Washington D.C.
>That is a fact.”
>No Bill, that is a LIE.
No, it is a proven statistical FACT. There are more people being murdered in these cities that in all of Iraq.
The George W Bush that was arrested for cocaine possession was NOT the George W Bush that currenty resides in the White House. Different birthday, different social security number. Oh, but the Dims don’t want you to know that.
>Very true steve. My>stepbrother went over>to ‘Nam gung-ho; came>back anti-war.
The Vietnam war was for no good reason and started by Democrats.
Bill - show a link that says thousands are being murdered each month in NYC. You cannot do that because it is false.
As for “The Vietnam war was for no good reason and started by Democrats” I agree 100%. I have said that many times. What’s your point?
>Here I am, the soldier>in Iraq,
Yea, and I’m a Japanese Kamakazi pilot too.
>and I have a>few things to say.
>First of all, there are>no WMDs in Iraq.
There were WMD’s in Iraq and this has been proven, oh great liar.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A33082-2004May17?language=printer
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html
Now then, you’re a Republican Guard soldier, right?
Does the murdered in Iraq count those blown to bits? Or just the ones found with holes drilled in them, throats slashed or headless? Does it include the wounded Sunni’s in the hospitals that are murdered by Al-Sadr’s ministry militia? Just wondering if we can define terms here.
“You walk down the street in NYC and I guarantee you’ll get run over by a car within five seconds.”
Been there done that. Many times. Wandered all over the Big Apple. Enjoyed it. Am alive.
“the shell appeared to predate the 1991 Persian Gulf War ”
In other words, it was one of those with English-language markings that were never a secret. Old, outdatsd, used up fighting against US enemies. Provided by the US when Saddam was our ally.
>Bill - show a link that says >thousands are being murdered>each month in NYC. You cannot>do that because it is false.
Show a link that says thousands of innocent people are being murdered each month in Iraq. You cannot do that because that is false. We’re up to 3000 US soldiers dead and the people that soldiers are killing are the insurgents that are trying to kill us. Those are the ones the Dims are labeling as “innocent Iraqi’s.”
>”the shell appeared to>predate the 1991 Persian>Gulf War ”
Saddam denied having them. Those were exactly the ones we were looking for. The ones Saddam claimed he didn’t have IN VIOLATION OF 1441!
>In other words, it was>one of those with>English-language markings>that were never a secret.
The USA never provided Saddam with WMD’s. France, Germany and Russia did.
>Provided by the US>when Saddam was our ally.
Wrong. Lie.
The USA never provided Saddam with WMD’s. France, Germany and Russia did.
Old, outdatsd, used upfighting against USenemies. Provided bythe US when Saddam wasour ally.
John Kerry wouldn’t know the truth if it stood up and bit him in the butt. He couldn’t find the truth with both hands, a flash light, guide dogs, a Sherpa, a GPS tracking system, Captain Jack Sparrows compass, a uterus and the Marauders Map.
He is a liar, has always been a liar and will always been a liar. He has slandered millions of military people and their families as well as any one who dares to disagree with him.
He is the worst excuse for a politician I have every seen, which includes the Clintons and our new ex-president (prince of the plagiarizers) Jimmy “your idea is my idea” Carter.I’ll just bet Joe Biden is thanking his lucky stars for this little scandal. He finally has to relinquish the title of “Chief Political Plagiarizer.” A title he has held since his ill-favored run at the White House.
But of course that never happened because it involved something unfavorable to people who can not deal with immorality among their favored ideals. Let’s see how the revisionists change this little debacle. Two weeks from now Carter will win the Pulitzer.
>”You walk down the street>in NYC and I guarantee>you’ll get run over by>a car within five seconds.”
>Been there done that. Many>times. Wandered all over>the Big Apple. Enjoyed it.>Am alive.
You weren’t walking down the street then. You were walking down the sidewalk.
You can’t read, can you?
Actually, I jaywalked a lot too. Yea, I can read, even the no-jaywalking signes I ignored.
>Actually, I jaywalked a>lot too. Yea, I can read,>even the no-jaywalking>signes I ignored.
That’s walking across the street, not down the street. The cops won’t stop a jaywalker because they’re too busy writing up the report on the dead guy they just pulled out of the dumpster.
But why am I alive? According to you I should be dead.
I am a hell of a lot safer in NYC, Chicago, LA, etc than I would be in baghdad. But, be my guest, go on over there. Have some pasta in a restaurant, hopefully outside the fortified fort called the Green Zone.
LOL. Hey Bill, pedantry is my schtick. Down, in, across the street, who cares?
Wow, it must so suck to be these guys like Bill and sean my hair these days.
Just think: a guy they consider to be a traitor displays more common sense and foresight in his dadgum throwaway lines than does Bush when he’s tryin’ his very best.
Now I don’t care which side you’re on, that has GOT to hurt. (hence Bill’s…what would you call his display here, a conniption fit? Tantrum? Spittle-flecked ranting with childish pedantry thrown in?)
Ouch!
Hey bill?
I hear they need a new guy to go cuckoo for cocoa puffs. Have you got your resume in?
The only people who believe in WMDS anymore is you Sean Hannity and Rick Santorum.
Hay better hurry with that resume! Santorum might beat you out for that job!
and sean ” I heart rush!” mohair. Well fella Kerry at least was in Vietnam. Carter commanded a nuclear submarine bush…..well no one seems to know!
Ben, actually, I think the British/Ira conflict was miscast as a protestant/catholic conflict. It was more about Britain maintaining a colony in Ireland. The Protestant connection was those loyal to their British masters, while the catholic represented the oppressed Irish nationality. Not really about whose faith was the right one.
Tell Mr. Bill, how is setting up a Democratic Domino in the mid-east, that was going to topple all surrounding regimes, different than maintaining a “Democratic” Vietnam to stop all the countries in SE Asia from becoming commie?
I commend Sen. Kerry for his brave comments so many years ago in front of the Foreign Relations Committee. He spoke honestly on behalf of the troops. I also commend him for his brave service in Vietnam, had Mr. Bush also served in Vietnam he would not have made the numerous mistakes he has made in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. I am grateful that Sen. Kerry has continued to speak out on behalf of our troops and all Americans. He is right to say that we should set a deadline to get out of Iraq. In the midterm elections the Democrats swept into Congress in part due to the senator’s hard work. He would have made a great president and I hope he runs again.
Steve - you are probably right. Similarly we see western powers use religious devides to break up countries in the Middle east.
An observation: Syria and Palestine are largely Sunni. Iran and Hizbollah/Lebanon and Shiite. All four are allied against the US. In Iraq you have Sunni and Shiite. I have predicted that their devide will lessen when Syria and Iran take over - at US expense.
Bill,I suspect you are an imposter. I am calling you out for who you really are. Your name is George W. Bush.It’s okay Mr. Pres., we suffer dumbshits on this blog.please continue.
Dear J R,
Carter never commanded a nuclear submarine.
Hank
Hank - are you sure; I thouht he had. Or was it he only served on one?
He did serve on one for a little while, but he got out of the Navy on a hardship to run the peanut farm after his father died.
Hank
I was incorrect.
Hey I was 12 years old when Carter was President. And I was for Ford back then
Ewwwwww
But while Hank is correct he is being unfair.
Carter graduated 59th is his class at the Naval academy. He was a naval command officer. Admiral Rickover considered Carter brilliant. Carter was on the short list to be one of the FIRST commanders of a nuclear submarine. He resigned his commission on the occasion of the death of his father. Not an uncommon event in the South. As the first nuclear submarine was not commisioned until a short time later, Carter never got the chance to command.
All of which makes bush look even smaller by comparison.
Dear J R,
I’m wondering where you got your information, it’s mostly BS. If you got it from his first book, it was mostly BS also.
I want to say that the boat he served on was the Sea Wolf, but I may be wrong.
He never was considered for command of a submarine. He never even made it to department head. Never qualified engineer.
I know some men that served with him and they think he was pretty much a self-centered, pompous, spoiled rich boy nitwit in the Navy. Pretty much shunned by his peers. Kinda like Kerry.
I also know that Rickover didn’t think much of Carter’s first book, “Why Not the Best”. It was a self-serving autobiography mainly written to aid in his ‘76 campaign for president.
His first book, like his most recent book was a bunch of crap. Unlike you, I was a little older than 12 when he ran for president.
Hank
I heard him say he was a lieutenant on a submarine.
Carter said that while he was in the Navy, he made most of his own furniture as he couldn’t afford to buy it. Where are you getting this BS?
>I am a hell of a lot safer in >NYC, Chicago, LA, etc than I >would be in baghdad.
But how could that be when there are more Americans dying each and every day in NYC than in Baghdad. That is a fact you continue to ignore.
>But, be my guest, go on over >there.
Give me the round trip airfare and I’ll be glad to.
>Tell Mr. Bill, how is>setting up a Democratic>Domino in the mid-east,>that was going to topple>all surrounding regimes,
Who told you this?
>I also commend him for>his brave service in>Vietnam, had Mr. Bush>also served in Vietnam>he would not have made>the numerous mistakes>he has made in the Iraq>and Afghanistan wars.
That is honestly about the stupidest comment I have ever heard in my entire life. Judging a man’s credibility by whether he served in Vietnam or not is more than a few laughs.
Got anymore jokes for us before I hit the rack for tonight?
>I am grateful that Sen.>Kerry has continued to>speak out on behalf of>our troops and all Americans.
So am I.
Kerry Said “If You Don’t Believe In The U.N. … Or You Don’t Believe SaddamHussein Is A Threat With Nuclear Weapons, Then You Shouldn’t Vote For Me.”(Ronald Brownstein, “On Iraq, Kerry Appears Either Torn Or Shrewd,” LosAngeles Times, 1/31/03)
I took his advise and didn’t.
Bill, it appears you can read. However, I’m not convinced your comprehension is all that good.
Here’s your link:http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/16/clinton.iraq.speech/
This is what it says:”Saddam (Hussein) must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons,” Clinton said.
Now please show me WHERE it says a COUNTRY was gassed. WHAT COUNTRY?
Concerning electricity and water:”Thanks largely to deteriorating security, electricity - along with water, sewage, and oil production - has dropped below prewar levels. Before the invasion, for example, Baghdad was receiving an average of at least 16 hours of power a day. Today, with insurgents targeting power plants and electrical lines on an almost daily basis, the city gets power just four hours each day on average.”http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0210/p01s03-woiq.html
Health care in Iraq:”Iraq’s health system is in a far worse condition than before the war, a British medical charity says.”http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4054105.stm
WMDs:From your foxnews link: “degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent.”Do you know ANYTHING about the shelf life of this stuff? And are you aware that the U.S. is who GAVE them much of it? (Check with Rumsfeld on this one.) Your statements have already been debunked, several times over.
“Stevie Nicks has.”Bill, I asked if YOU had talked with any of the returning troops. Since you haven’t spoken to Stevie Nicks, nor has Stevie actually been in Baghdad, your “facts” don’t support anything.
“You haven’t talked to any of them. You are believing what you are hearing from the Democrats who only want your votes. You haven’t talked to any soldiers at all.”Uh, yes, I have. Several. Personally. One just got back in October and was stationed in Baghdad.
“Wrong. Lie. Start over. On September 12, 2001, the word that bin Laden was responsible hadn’t even come out yet. The soldiers had absolutely no idea where they were going to go.”We didn’t go to Iraq until 2003, Bill.”The 2001-present war in Afghanistan started in October 2001, in the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States, marking the beginning of its War on Terrorism campaign, seeking to oust the Taliban and find al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.”
“Saddam was an imminent threat to the USA with chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.”You really need to check your dates. As for anything after 2001, just who was everyone getting their information from? The current administration=REPUBLICANS and NEOCONS.
“Got any reliable supporting cites? I didn’t think so.”
>Recruitment for Al Qaeda is >rapidly rising.
“Cite please.”
Sorry, I don’t use Rush, Hannity, Coulter, O’Reilly or Fox News, and I doubt you’d accept anything but them.
“The war that JFK and LBJ started”Eisenhower sent the first troops to Vietnam. Kennedy was preparing to bring them home. Does that ring a bell? LBJ was trying to save his reputation and only destroyed it. Why did it take Nixon so long?
I lost friends in Vietnam, so don’t call me Bozo. At least you’re still alive.
Nothing like a brainwashed Repuke. Did they do that to you in the service?
Keep pushing the propaganda. All it does is show how uninformed you really are.
>Bill,
>I suspect you are an>imposter. I am calling>you out for who you>really are. Your name>is George W. Bush.>It’s okay Mr. Pres., we>suffer dumbshits on this>blog. please continue.
You seriously believe George Bush would spend his time defending his actions on kansas.com? Are you going to share some of those drugs you’re on?
>Dear J R,
>Carter never commanded>a nuclear submarine.
>Hank
And Bill Clinton was a draft dodger.
Hank
The info is from Wikipedia. Don’t worry, I don’t expect you to be anything but yourself in this.YOUR info is from folks that….well uh “think” like you. And that bias is pretty well established. Attack all Carter all you like.
Try defending deserter boy bush from the Air Guard!
“That is honestly about the stupidest comment I have ever heard in my entire life. Judging a man’s credibility by whether he served in Vietnam or not is more than a few laughs.”
Is that because Bush never served? Is that because Cheney got 5 deferments?
“Kerry Said “If You Don’t Believe In The U.N. … Or You Don’t Believe SaddamHussein Is A Threat With Nuclear Weapons, Then You Shouldn’t Vote For Me.”(Ronald Brownstein, “On Iraq, Kerry Appears Either Torn Or Shrewd,” LosAngeles Times, 1/31/03)I took his advise and didn’t.”
I voted for Sen. Kerry and would do so again in a heart beat. I am proud of my vote. Simply because he didn’t start the wrong war in the wrong place and at the wrong time. He has more honesty and credibility than the whole repug party combined.
If, indeed, Bill did serve in Vietnam, I fear he was one of those affected by Agent Orange.
Shall we talk about chemical warfare?
Probus,
As I recall, they’re still dissing Clinton for not serving, yet it’s okay when THEIRS wiggle out with 5 deferments and start an illegal occupation. ;)
“As I recall, they’re still dissing Clinton for not serving, yet it’s okay when THEIRS wiggle out with 5 deferments and start an illegal occupation.”
RD,
You make excellent points. Clinton didn’t serve, but he never hid it. Also he never attacked his opponent Bush 41 for his service which is essentially what Bush 43 did to Sen. Kerry who served with honor and integrity. Kerry was swift-boated because Bush didn’t serve in Vietnam. If Bush had served in Vietnam it never would have been an issue.
I am very tired of this editorial board. Offer a solution instead of bitching about everyone else’s mistake. If you guys are so smart, then run for office. Fix the problem instead of sitting around and griping.
>Now please show me WHERE>it says a COUNTRY was>gassed. WHAT COUNTRY?
How old are you? Were you alive in 1991 when Saddam Hussein committed genocide against the kurds? He used WMD/s according to Mr. Clinton. Are you saying Bill Clinton lied?
OK, so it may not have been an entire country. So are you saying that because it was not an entire country that Saddam should be EXONERATED?!? Damn you are venomous.
>Concerning electricity and>water:
>”Thanks largely to>deteriorating security, >electricity - along with>water, sewage, and oil >production - has dropped>below prewar levels. Before>the invasion, for example, >Baghdad was receiving an>average of at least 16 hours>of power a day. Today, with >insurgents targeting power>plants and electrical>lines on an almost daily>basis,>the city gets power just>four hours each day on>average.”
>http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0210/p01s03-woiq.html
This report is nearly a year old. Please do better next time you wish to debate a point.
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4054105.stm
This report is over two years old and from an anti-American publication. You’re not doing any better, my friend.
>WMDs:>From your foxnews link:>”degraded mustard or>sarin nerve agent.”>Do you know ANYTHING>about the shelf life of>this stuff?
Also from my foxnews link:
He added that the report warns about the hazards that the chemical weapons could still pose to coalition troops in Iraq.
“The purity of the agents inside the munitions depends on many factors, including the manufacturing process, potential additives and environmental storage conditions. While agents degrade over time, chemical warfare agents remain hazardous and potentially lethal,” Santorum read from the document.
>And are you aware that>the U.S. is who GAVE>them much of it?
That is an outright LIE! The USA gave him NONE of that. The USA gave Saddam a few Stinger missiles and some sattellite photos of target areas. We gave him NO chemicals or weapons of mass destruction. You can’t find a single reliable cite for that either because it is an outright lie.
>(Check with Rumsfeld on this >one.)
Oh well gee, do you happen to have his phone number? How about a cite?
>Your statements have>already been debunked,>several times over.
But yet you have no evidence and no cites.
>”Stevie Nicks has.”>Bill, I asked if YOU>had talked with any>of the returning troops.
No I haven’t. Neither have you. Stevie Nicks has. She has actually visited with injured troops at Walter Reed Hospital. Have you? I didn’t think so.
>Since you haven’t spoken to >Stevie Nicks,
How do you know I haven’t spoken to Stevie Nicks? Just wondering.
You’re really beginning to look like a fool. I have Stevie’s written eyewitness reports, however since you don’t believe I have actually spoken to her, her eyewitness reports don’t matter, right? Man you are desperate.
>nor has Stevie actually>been in Baghdad, your>”facts” don’t support>anything.
How do you know Stevie has never been to Baghdad? Just wondering.
Let’s see, because you don’t believe Stevie has ever been to Baghdad, here eyewitness reports from soldiers that have actually been to Baghdad don’t count, right? Wow, you are desperate and your statements contain no logic at all.
>Uh, yes, I have. Several. >Personally. One just got>back in October and was>stationed in Baghdad.
Anyone can say that. If you put no weight on my statements then I put no weight on yours.
>”Wrong. Lie. Start over.>On September 12, 2001,>the word that bin Laden>was responsible hadn’t>even come out yet. The>soldiers had absolutely>no idea where they were>going to go.”
>We didn’t go to Iraq>until 2003, Bill.
Wow, how long did it take you to figure that one out?
Your statement was that the people who volunteered for the military on Spetember 12, 2001 thought they were going to fight in Afghanistan. I debunked that statement. You are side-stepping that fact.
>”The 2001-present war in >Afghanistan started in>October 2001, in the wake>of the September 11, 2001>attacks on the United>States, marking the>beginning of its War>on Terrorism campaign,>seeking to oust the>Taliban and find al-Qaeda>leader Osama bin Laden.”
Aha, so since October is more than two weeks after 9/11, there is no way that people enlisting for the military on 9-12-2001 could have thought they were going to Afghanistan. Thankyou for proving my point.
>”Saddam was an imminent>threat to the USA with>chemical, biological and>nuclear weapons.”>You really need to check>your dates. As for>anything after 2001,>just who was everyone>getting their information>from? The current >administration=REPUBLICANS>and NEOCONS.
Then answer this, Mr. Brilliant: Where did Ted Kennedy get his information from when he said this:
“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking anddeveloping weapons of mass destruction.” — Ted Kennedy, September27, 2002
Note the keywords “many years?” That puts it in Bill Clintoon’s ballpark. Where was Bill Clintoon getting his information from? George Bush, Governer of Texas?
>Recruitment for Al Qaeda is >rapidly rising.
>”Cite please.”
>Sorry, I don’t use Rush,>Hannity, Coulter, O’Reilly>or Fox News, and I doubt>you’d accept anything but>them.
So you have none from anyone. I didn’t think you did.
>”The war that JFK and>LBJ started”
>Eisenhower sent the>first troops to Vietnam.
That may be true, but Kennedy was the first to get us involved in the war. Does “agent Orange” ring a bell?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/timeline/tl2.html#a
>Kennedy was preparing>to bring them home.
Cite please. Oh yea, you don’t have any.
>LBJ was trying to save>his reputation and only>destroyed it.
Cite please. Oh yea, you don’t have any.
>Why did it take Nixon so long?
Because we were buried in foxholes stuck in the quagmire. What were they supposed to do, wave white flags and yell “don’t shoot” and get up and start walking towards Vietnam International Airport where the Jolly Greens were waiting for them? What would you have done?
>I lost friends in Vietnam,
Why do I doubt that?
>Nothing like a brainwashed >Repuke. Did they do that>to you in the service?
No, fortunately I didn’t have to inhale any of the Agent Orange unleashed by your hero JFK.
>Keep pushing the propaganda.>All it does is show how >uninformed you really are.
Hey, at least I have cites for my statements.
>As I recall, they’re still >dissing Clinton for not>serving, yet it’s okay>when THEIRS wiggle out>with 5 deferments and>start an illegal occupation.
No evidence, no basis, no foundation.
Try again.
It’ dangerous to handle any explosive that is degraded, and the biggest danger was for it exploding, not gassing the troops.
>Also he never attacked his >opponent Bush 41 for his>service which is>essentially what Bush>43 did to Sen. Kerry>who served with honor>and integrity.
That is a lie. Bush 43 never attacked John Kerry’s service record. Talk radio did. George Bush 43 attacked John Kerry’s Senate voting record. He never touched his service record.
>Kerry was swift-boated>because Bush didn’t serve>in Vietnam.
Another lie. John Kerry was swift boated because the 85 or so people who served with John Kerry knew he was not fit to be Commander-In-Chief. It had nothing to do with Bush.
>If Bush had served in>Vietnam it never would>have been an issue.
Yet another lie. If Bush had served in Vietnam, it would have made no difference at all. The Dims still would have slammed him just as hard in their failed quest to regain power in the White House. That’s what all that propaganda was about, power. Not about truth, all about power.
>It’ dangerous to handle any >explosive that is degraded,>and the biggest danger was>for it exploding, not>gassing the troops.
That’s not what the report says.
“The purity of the agents inside the munitions depends on many factors, including the manufacturing process, potential additives and environmental storage conditions. While agents degrade over time, chemical warfare agents remain hazardous and potentially lethal,” Santorum read from the document.
It has to suck to be you bill. Being in an ever diminishing collection of fools I mean.
It’s ok. Tune in Rush tomorrow. He gonna make everything alright!
Kook.
“Bush 43 never attacked John Kerry’s service record. Talk radio did. George Bush 43 attacked John Kerry’s Senate voting record. He never touched his service record.”
Yes he did. Do you forget the swiftboat veterans for lies? They did Bush’s dirty work for him. Would that be the same talk radio to which Bush recently went to (with doughy Limbaugh) and criticized Kerry? The swiftboat liars were paid for their lies and no I don’t have to sit here and prove anything to you. You prove it to me that they weren’t connected with Bush.
“John Kerry was swift boated because the 85 or so people who served with John Kerry knew he was not fit to be Commander-In-Chief. It had nothing to do with Bush.”
Those people were liars and were never able to back up a word of what they said as fact. They never came forward before and just happened to come forward after the Dem Convention when they saw Kerry standing there with his band of brothers. Kerry is more fit to be president than this president or for that matter any member of the repug party. The swifboat attacks had everything to do with Bush and his smear machine, because he was scared of Kerry. Kerry has more integrity than Bush ever did. Oh, and those veterans did not speak for all the veterans who voted for Kerry and stood on the stage with him at the dem convention and the Navy Secretary at the time currently Sen. Warner of VA backs this up. He stands by his decision to give Kerry each and every medal he got.
“If Bush had served in Vietnam, it would have made no difference at all. The Dims still would have slammed him just as hard in their failed quest to regain power in the White House. That’s what all that propaganda was about, power. Not about truth, all about power.”
The fact still remains that while every young American boy was being drafted in this country Bush managed to stay in AL and Kerry volunteered to go and serve his country. Bush attacked because Kerry served with honor and because he has medals that Bush doesn’t have. Kerry may have lost an election but Bush lost his integrity which is why he now enjoys a mere 30% approval rating. And that’s why he lost his repug Congress.
“Were you alive in 1991 when Saddam Hussein committed genocide against the kurds?”
The Kurds are a country?
I see your math sucks as much as your history.
Try reading the proof you provide, Bill. You might see that you’re making your own noose and hanging yourself. Once again, you may be able to read, but you can’t comprehend what you’re reading.
“Mr. Brilliant”
Once again, you are the one who is WRONG. Any idiot could check that.
Billo,
Why is it you always ask others you disagree with to give you “proof” but can never provide any credible proof yourself?
Probus,
It’s hard work to provide credible proof when all you do is repeat talk radio’s lies.
Besides his pitiful reading comprehension, Bill doesn’t seem to be able to perform rational thought. You see, if he doesn’t want to believe, he doesn’t.
Presenting facts to him is an exercise in futility. He wouldn’t know a fact if it slapped him upside of the head.
RD,
“It’s hard work to provide credible proof when all you do is repeat talk radio’s lies.”
He would have to repeat repug lies from the chubby and doughy Viagra popping Limbaugh after the beating his repugs took at the ballot box. He must be very depressed that the repugs have lost all their power. The dems now control Congress.
“Presenting facts to him is an exercise in futility. He wouldn’t know a fact if it slapped him upside of the head.”
lol. Repugs like him are not very good on facts. I know he tries very hard, but when all you have are repug talking points there is very little room for honesty and facts.
Please read this article. The last paragraph seems to hit the nail on the head for why there are so many people complaining about Iraq.
Troops Haven’t Lost Faith in RumsfeldBy Jim GaramoneAmerican Forces Press Service
BALAD, Iraq, Dec. 9, 2006 – As he prepares to enter his final week in office, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld was greeted warmly here by the men and women in uniform he has led for the past six years.Rumsfeld paid a surprise visit to servicemembers based in Iraq to thank them for their service. He met with troops on Al Asad Air Base in Anbar province and then with troops here.
In both places, the troops treated him like a rock star. The 74-year-old secretary flew aboard an Air Force C-17 from Washington. He worked through the night aboard the plane, but was still fresh enough to put in a full day speaking to and meeting the troops.
And they responded.
When he arrived to speak at Al Asad, he received a sustained ovation - punctuated by Marine OO-RAHs and Army HOOAHs. There were even a number of Air Force personnel who insisted on yelling “Airpower.”
After the speech in Al Asad, hundreds of servicemembers lined up for pictures with Rumsfeld. Many offered support for the secretary who steps down Dec. 18. “It isn’t a military problem out here,” said one Marine gunnery sergeant speaking on background. “It’s a political problem. No one in this country can challenge us militarily; we’d wipe the floor with them. The Iraqis have to ‘cowboy up.’”
Many soldiers and airmen at Balad said that if they have the patience and they haven’t lost faith, then the American people shouldn’t either. “This is my second year-long tour,” said a convoy commander at Anaconda Logistics Area. “Why am I more patient than someone sitting at home in ‘Fort Livingroom?’”—–
America has lost faith! It’s evident in all this political in-fighting.
The insurgents can see it on the news, just like the soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines. The insurgents take advantage of this because they know the American people are weak and want to “get out now before we loose any more of our boys and girls”.
They know that if they keep up the pressure long enough, you will call our troops home. Then everything that every one of those troops died for, or got wounded for, was for nothing.
But you will tell yourself and others that “it was so-and-so’s fault”. Folks, it’s OUR fault. We ARE there, and our kids DID die and get wounded. Don’t spit in their faces and call them home without letting them finish the job.
Support our troops like you say you do. Show them the outward support they need and at the same time, kick the insurgent’s morale to the gound. Give our troops that edge over their enemy. Sometime’s that’s all it takes!
Yeah that is the new talking point of the right.
“Iraq will work out just fine if only we all get behind it!”
BS. Pure uadulterated crap.
Iraq was a powderkeg waiting for someone to light a match. Saddam was just sitting on the keg. All the rah rah in the world is not going to alter the root cause of what is wrong in Iraq one bit.
Sorry Republicans. YOUR boy made this mess. You do not get to project the blame for it on a lack of will.
Wow, Bill called me, an Army NCO in Iraq, a “Republican Guardsman”… what a prick!
Bill aint exactly prized for his reason so far Andrew.
He probably doesn’t believe you are who you say you are. I clicked your email.I see no reason to doubt you.Welcome to the forum.
BILL
I got some murder rates for you.New York last year: 571Baghdad (Jan thru May ‘06): 6,025
You’re 26.77 times more likely to be murdered in Baghdad as you are in New York or San Francisco.
That was from a five minute google search of “New York City murder rate” and “Baghdad murder rate”.
Andrew, it’s actually much worse than that. It’s worse because you’re comparing apples to oranges. In order to validly compare the violence in New York City to that in Baghdad, we’d have to look at the per capita murder rate: how many murders per citizen.
I say it’s much worse because NYC has far more citizens than does Baghdad. Hence the per capita murder rate is likely FAR HIGHER in Baghdad.
Mortality rate would probably do in a pinch. At least it would give a more accurate answer to the question “how much more dangerous is Baghdad than NYC?”
I hope you don’t let Bill get too far under your skin. Anybody with a pulse can see that Bill’s not exactly becoming famous for his reasoning skills here, and personally I’d take anything he writes with a huge grain of salt. A boulder, in fact.
Thanks for your service, Andrew. Merry Christmas to you and yours!
Your right, and all that information is out there. I was just paraphrasing.
Bill is a moron, I know, but I couldn’t help being offended.
And I am taking my leave for the Holidays on Friday, should be a blast.
Bill doesn’t seem very concerned about “truth”.
“The glaciers around Antarctica and Greenland are getting bigger.”
‘Greenland Melt Extent, 2005′http://cires.colorado.edu/science/groups/steffen/greenland/melt2005/
‘NASA’s Grace Finds Greenland Melting Faster12.20.05′http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/grace-20051220.html
‘Greenland Ice Loss Doubles in Past Decade, Raising Sea Level FasterFebruary 16, 2006′http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2006-023
“This is all part of the natural earth cycles.”
It’s the “natural” result of humans adding significant amounts of greenhouse gases to our Earth’s atmosphere — and land use changes such as deforestation.
“The Democrats don’t want you to know that though.”
All these international scientists are “Democrats”?http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/558.htmhttp://illconsidered.blogspot.com/2006/02/there-is-no-consensus.html
Andrew,Just a little friendly advice: before calling someone a moron, make sure you understand the your/you’re utility.
Do you understand the Who-the-fuck cares about a typo utility?
Andrew,
That’s a good one- it couldn’t happen to a nicer guy!
Well, that settles the “Who’s the moron?” question.
My bad bro, that was really out-of-line on my part. I accept your (hehe) not-so-clever insinuated criticism as a character flaw on your part and my response as a flaw on mine.
Truce.
Andrew,
Don’t apologize to Golf. I’ve studied average conservatives and liberals, and the conservatives, by far, have the poorest grammar and spelling.
Ehh. Typos happen. My comment wasn’t aimed at the ‘your’ mistake as much as I was hoping you’d curtail the use of ‘moron’.
Truce.
RD, whoa. So based on your ‘research’, you can predict who is a lib and who is a conservative based on grammar?
No conservatives are the fastest typers. Also since we are all rich we all usually have executive assistants to proof our memos and such (saracasm)
I let my kid proof my work. That way I can pay her (instead of giving her an allowance) and claim it as a business deduction.
It costs me 15.3% in FICA tax, but saves me 33% on income tax.
And if you think I’m kidding…
Golf, just make sure you have the “exempt” W-4 in your files…
And, your net cost on FICA (after tax) is a bit less than 15.3%, right?
Vaughn,My parents, my brother, my sister - all CPAs
When I decided to be an engineer - I think I was demoted to the kids’ table at Thanksgiving. (heh)
However, when I finished my MBA, I was welcomed to rejoin the grownups. I seriously thought about joining the family biz, but we’d have to relocate…nah.
I’m happy here. Plus, my wife is from here.
Concerned Mom,Just because I don’t agree with being in Iraq and I want to spit on George Bush doesn’t mean that I don’t support the troops. I have 2 sons over there and a husband who was in Bosnia. As for the “volunteer army,” that’s a crock!! These guys go where they are told to go. My son in Iraq has been shot at and bombed but so far has survived. There is NO REASON to be where we are. I can’t understand how you can be sooo duped by GWB and DC and the rest of the Republicans. I hope someday you wake up!!