Former Secretary of State Colin Powell isn’t the only one who thinks a temporary “surge” of U.S. troops in Iraq is a bad idea. According to the Washington Post, the Joint Chiefs of Staff unanimously concur.
The short-term deployment of up to 30,000 more troops is said to be one of the main proposals in a White House policy review aimed at reversing Iraq’s slide into chaos.
The JointChiefs oppose the idea on the grounds that it would probably have the opposite effect. For one thing, announcing a timetable for such a deployment — between six and eight months — would give the jihadists a strategic advantage and a powerful recruiting tool. For another, the Joint Chiefs think the White House is grasping at straws, and still doesn’t have a plan for what will happen afterward.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates is in Baghdad (see photo); maybe he’ll get some new ideas. But that part about grasping at straws is all too easy to believe.
Posted by Dave Knadler
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62 Comments
“the Joint Chiefs think the White House is grasping at straws, and still doesn’t have a plan for what will happen afterward.”
They are just now figuring this out?
I think that when confronted with a raging fire, the only sensible thing is to throw a bunch of gasoline on it.
Oh. Wait. Sorry. Must be the cold medicine talking.
I think it’s time the country said an emphatic ‘no’ to Junior. This shit is not going to work, and it risks all sorts of uintended consequences. Junior’s reputation is not worth overstraining our military.
It may that we’re finally seeing the pushback by rational people against an Administration that, frankly, has proven itself to be quite mad. Or, that at the very least has never once had a plan or stopped its wishful thinking for long enough to try to see matters rationally.
Interesting to hear the JCS “speak out” now that Rummy is gone…
Yep, great idea. lets send more fodder over there for the effort. Al-Quida, and its clones, love using real Americans as a proving ground for there ieds.
It’s a civil war now. We have NO business being over there and should never have invaded in the first place. Bush and his minions have put us in a position where no matter what we do now, the rest of the world will be laughing at us for years.
I know, you neo-cons could care less about the rest of the world, but in order to fight the terrorist threat, it will take the rest of the world, working in concert, to do so.
The rest of the world…
…you mean like France,Germany, Russia etc?
They are all too busy arranging deals through China, India to filter weapon components and parts so they can get to countries like Iran, Korea and Syria.
From JM:”The rest of the world…
…you mean like France,Germany, Russia etc?”
Lets see: They have all been hit by terrorists. I would think it would be in all of their’s best interest to join in a cooperative effort to control terrorism, but, as I stated earlier, the neo-cons, such as JM, could care less about that. What they want is some rush clone as prez, war on as many fronts as possible (in order to pack the munitions makers bank accounts, and theirs in the process), bs from washington repubes about how liberals “hate America” because they don’t support bombing a country into the stone ages and selling their souls to big business at the expense of the real American people (as opposed to the phonies who cater to the every whim of big business).
General Abizaid is said to be retiring in March; from what I’ve seen and read of him, a good man. Wonder if he’s just sick and tired of the whole thing?
http://abcnews.go.com/International/IraqCoverage/story?id=2739808
Why not go in with some more troops? Only this time we need to take it to the enemy. Maybe with this General Abazaid retiring we can get a real leader in there. Remember, the North was losing the Civil War until Lincoln fired McClellan and replaced him with U.S. Grant. Grant wasn’t the smartest General we had, but he had one thing going for him. He wasn’t afraid to fight and he wasn’t afraid to take casualties. Lets stop pussyfooting around and win this thing. Then we can come home with our heads held up. Talking with Syria and Iran in hopes they will help us is the stupidest thing I ever heard of. That explains why John Kerry is over in Damascus right now.
And who is the enemy, Chris? The intelligence estimate indicate that only about five percent (or less)of the insurgency is al Qaeda, the rest are Iraqi’s fighting Iraqi’s.
Should we just kill them all?
Why not? War is an ugly business. Trying to play by some BS rules is stupid. Our policy should be simple. Sunni, Shite, or foreigner. If they are armed, they die. We can’t continue to screw around over there. We need to level Anbar Province. Thats where most of the insurgency is located. Yeah, there will be civilians killed. But they are being killed now in droves by their fellow Countrymen. Victory is the only acceptable outcome
Will we see the “Surge and Splurge” option now?
“Why not? War is an ugly business”
You are okay with killing twenty-five million people in a country that we were going to “liberate?”
BTW – Baghdad is the flashpoint, according to (even) Bush.
“If they are armed, they die.”
Um…..Every household in Iraq is ALLOWED by our military to have one ak47 and one pistol. Now I don’t think that is the wisest of policies. But it sure makes your blood and guts agenda simpler eh Chris?
Armchair Patton.
Victory (as defined by bush) is NOT possible.
Victory is not only possible, its the only acceptable outcome. It doesn’t mean it will be easy, it doesn’t mean it won’t be messy. Your “victory is not possible” is democrat code speak for we don’t deserve to win. Another humiliating withdrawl and defeat like Vietnam is what they want.
“Another humiliating withdrawl and defeat like Vietnam is what they want.”
Bull stuff, Chris, I don’t want to see us defeated in Iraq, but the War on Iraq was unwinnable from the beginning, just as those of us opposed to the war said from the start.
Other than killing twenty-five million people that we are liberating, what is your plan for victory?
Democrats need to be called “surrendercrats”
So, what is YOUR plan, Asbestos?
Kill the liberated?
Idiocrats, surrendercrats, cutandrunocrats. =)
The thing is, these simpletons hate Bush so badly…they are rooting for the US to lose in Iraq.
“Idiocrats, surrendercrats, cutandrunocrats. =)”
And your plan, Golfnut?
Shoot the bad guys. Al Sadr would be a good target.
Hey Clarkie! Stalking me again? =) Hittin’ the doobs tonight?
WSC said
Bull stuff, Chris, I don’t want to see us defeated in Iraq, but the War on Iraq was unwinnable from the beginning, just as those of us opposed to the war said from the start.
Its talk like that, that keeps our enemies going. You, WSC may not personally want to see us lose, or cut and run, but that is what the democrats want.
Victory in Iraq cqn be achieved if we have the political will. Its time to ask yourself just what you believe.
personallywant to see
“Shoot the bad guys. Al Sadr would be a good target.”
Who are the bad guys, Asbestos? They don’t wear uniforms.
“Hittin’ the doobs tonight?”
I have been here for a while, so, no I am not the stalker – that’s your game.
As for hitting the doobie – hell yes – do you want a toke?
I have some really good BC Bud – two toke max – I have Hendrix on the surround sound, too.
Care to join?
“Victory in Iraq cqn be achieved”
How?
I prefer to live within the law, Clarkieboy
Why live within the law? Bush doesn’t. Remember Robin Lowman? Cocaine arrests? DUI’s?
I have never been arrested – my record is cleaner than the President of the USA!
bush defines victory as:
A free, stable, democratic Iraq that is an ally in the war on terror.
NOT possible.
Don’t smoke anything! However your statement:
“Who are the bad guys, Asbestos? They don’t wear uniforms.”
THey are the guys that shoot at you and our boys. Pretty easy. They are the ones that blow up individuals and civilians.
This “Peaceful Religion” of Islam is shown in the Fatah vs. Hamas Dilling each other over power. They cannot even live with their “own kind”. In Iraq, it is Shi’ite and Sunni, with some Kurd thrown in. The Kurds are fine, the Iraq Christians Fine, what is not fine? The Shi’ite and Sunni factions. The members of a “peaceful Religion” that says it is not good to Kill other “Muslims”. So aren’t they all damned to hell then?
That is what you yo-yos don’t get. And the Surrendercrats and some spineless Republicans have no balls and no backbone.
They are NOT leaders.
Oh good one Clarkie dumb a$$, when you start losing the argument you either imupune the President personally or impune the opposing view personally.
You suck.
Arrest or not – you’re a low life drug user.
The end.
“THey are the guys that shoot at you and our boys. Pretty easy. They are the ones that blow up individuals and civilians.”
We do fight back against the insurgents that attack American troops – everyday.
It’s the Sunni on Shi’ite civil war that is impossible to control. Why should America referee a civil war in Iraq?
A better question would be, why the hell are we there in the first place?
“You suck. – Arrest or not – you’re a low life drug user.”
Come on, is that the best you can do?
And YOU numbnuts, are a troll AND a philanderer and likely the most despised poster in the history of this blog.
You fit quite well with the ego maniac ASBESTOS and the clueless dolt Chris.
NO occupying force has EVER defeated an insurgency. EVER. And that history mostly includes nations where there was only one faction not three.
GOod JR very good, “give in to your feelings, strike me down with your dull wit, and your journey to the Dark Side will be Complete!!”
Typical answer, Junior. When you don’t like the facts…
Are you an illegal drug user, too?
But, what is YOUR plan to win the War on Iraq?
Care to refute my post? Or shall we just trade shots?
Heh heh.
You boys are small fry.
Your non-answer to the question, Junior implies that you are, indeed, an illegal drug user like SparkieClarkie
Repost……
But, what is YOUR plan to win the War on Iraq?
What this pathetic one here JR:
“bush defines victory as:
A free, stable, democratic Iraq that is an ally in the war on terror.
NOT possible.”
How do you KNOW that is NOT possible? Crystal ball, belief, or egocentric reasoning?
You KNOW that? No way. No body knows that anymore than the score of a football game. That is why we play the game. Those whom want to win will usually win. Like KSU and Texas this year. Same way in war. The Surrendercrats have so dominated with all these lies about Iraq, that the country has just shyed away from it.
When thos 140,000+ soldiers and airmen get back from Iraq, I think there is going to be hell to pay against these Surrendercrat liberals. Your party will not win (IMO) the Presidency in 2008 after Rummy’s book, Abizadh’s book and Casey’s book.
The problem with this war was the dems. Rummy’s book will name names and he WILL GET PAYBACK.
You guys are idiots and do not understand the enemy nor the art of war.”You must go to the mattress!”
Well no I am not in fact a user of any drugs.
That didn’t stop a better spoken person on your side from making the charge once a long time ago. He had to eat it. You may as well do that now too.
No occupying force has ever defeated an insugrency.
I borrow that line. Because it is true. Refute it.
Or we can do personal shots. You’d really rather not do that. I have you at a disadvantage.
Repost…… Phase Two
But, what is YOUR plan to win the War on Iraq?
Junior, I’m glad to hear that you’re not a drug abuser.
And I don’t care whether or not any occupying force has ever defeated an insurgency. I have confidence that we can (and will) prevail in Iraq.
Hadn’t figured you for a bushbot Asbestos. But it does figure.
I state again. No occupying force has ever defeated an insurgency.
I’ll modify a bit.
bush’s vision for a democratic, stable, Iraq that is an ally in the war on terror MIGHT be possible.
IF we occupy that country for about 50 years.
You up for that? I aint. The country aint either.
Yes well
Goofnuts and Asbestos are invited to click their heels togther 3 times. Try thinking good thoughts too! Repeat again and again “I think we can I think we can”.
Hey I aint happy that Iraq is gonna descend into a bloody and likely long civil war.
I am even less happy that this will likely create a pan Iran/Syria/Iraq state.
But I didn’t make this mess. George bush did.
Chris,
How many more troops? Where will you get them? More National Guard members? And if that number doesn’t do the trick, how many more are you willing to send? Are you willing to go to help up the numbers? Send your sons, your brothers?
This sounds oh, so familiar. Deja vu, anyone?
Silent night,holy night…….
Peace on EarthGood will towards men!———————————–Blessed are the poor in spirit:for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.Blessed are the meek:for they shall posses the land.Blessed are they who mourn:for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice:for they shall have their fill.
Blessed are the merciful:for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the clean of heart:for they shall see God.Blessed are the peacemakers:for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice’ sake,for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Love it Tracy.. and for the Christians on the BLOG I might add my very favorite carol:
O Holy night the stars are brightly shining
It is the night of our dear Savior’s birth
Long lay the world in sin and error pining
Til He appeared and the soul felt it’s worth
A thrill of hope the weary world rejoices
For yonder breaks a new and glorious morn
Fall on your kneesO hear the angel voicesO night divine!O night when Christ was bornO night divine!O night, O night divine!
Truly he taught us to love one another
His law is love and his gospel is peace
Chains shall He breakFor the slave is our brother
And in His Name, all oppression shall cease
Sweet hymns of joy in grateful chorus raise we
Let all within us praise his holy nameChrist is the Lord!O praise His name foreverHis power and glory ever more proclaim!
Thanks Sam.Just thought it would break up some of the senseless chronic bickering.
Have a great Christmas.
Greetings and Merry Christmas to everyone. Regarding Iraq, I suggest the following “out of the box” idea. Your comments please.
Turn Baghdad into a fabulous International Civilian City for immigrants from all over the world. Request volunteers from everywhere. Kind of like “Casablanca” in the movie. I suppose hundreds of “Rick’s Bars” would pop up there. Maybe even a star studded international bowling alley with all the bells and whistles. Sorry no arena supporters please.
I predict a million people, Americans, illegal immigrants, Mexicans from the impoverished barrios of Mexico City, Eskimos now floating on broken ice bergs who would appreciate the warmth of the Baghdad summers, soldiers of fortune, Guatamalans, oriental boat people, and Joe Williams trying to broaden his outlook for the WE Blog.
We already see how millions of illegal immigrants are absorbing America without firing a shot (well maybe a few). This might work in the middle east specificly in Baghdad.
Dibs on one of those Saddam Hussein palaces.
The noncommanders (read enlisted personnel) tell Gates that more troops are needed in Iraq, and other things of interest.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/12/21/iraq.troops.ap/index.html
TRACY…
Thanks.. you have a Merry Christmas as well.
My wife and I have almost made the decision to celebrate Christmas in April… which is probably closer to the actual time that Jesus would have been born! Maybe it will catch on and stop all the fighting over who “owns” the holiday!!
Thanx for the post Vaughn. While I believe that troops should not make policy, they should be listened to.
We discussed on a similar thread:
Increase troop strength. Make a sweep north to south. Stay only long enough to quell the militias and get Iraqi peace keepers set up. Then move on to the next southern city. When we hit the border set up camp in Kuwait for a bit.
What this solves; gets our boys out of there, leaves Iraq (one city at a time) secured. If it falls apart after we leave, then we tell Iraq to gets its security forces that we trained to do their jobs.
SDVB,
If the plan is to leave anyway, consequences be damned, why wait until after we’ve lost (in all likelihood) many more troops, and further destabilized Iraq? There’s no logic to what you say. Or, if there is, it’s the insane ‘double down’ logic being peddled by the power junkies at AEI and in the Bush Administration.
We’re done. It’s over. There’s no salvaging the project. None. U.S. out of Iraq NOW. Bush’s delusion has got to end NOW. This new Congress either busts him back down to size or hands him the keys to the Constitution.
Consequences be damned? Further destabilized?
How so, if we roll city to city and quell the militias? And leave Iraqi peace keepers in place?
If we do that, the we have some kind of ‘we win’ We secure Iraq city by city, then hold Iraq responsible for keeping it peaceful.
“Iraqi peace keepers”
Perhaps you haven’t noticed that these guys ARE the militias.
We would better served at this late stage to find local ‘militia’ groups who can stabilize each city as a sort of ‘island’
SBDV,
That’s a fine scenario that has, really, nothing to do with what’s happening on the ground. As cynic says, the peacekeepers ARE the insurgency. WE’VE been arming our own enemies.
These ideas that a) we’ll combine with the Shia and the Kurds to crush the Sunni or b) that we’ll split the Shia and take out al Sadr and his militia are equally fantastical and desperate.
We have fundamentally misunderstood the situation on the ground in Iraq from day one. So you’ll understand why I’m contemptuous of further plans from the very folks whose willfull ignorance and refusal to ask or respond to hard questions got us into this fix. When Colin Powell says the Army is “about broken,” that has to be our priority.
George Bush’s brittle ego and inability to admit he’s wrong is what’s driving this insane talk of a ’surge.’ And if this thing DOES go through, I’ll bet you, SDVB, that the result will be an Iraq in even more catastrophic shape than at present, and a U.S. military significantly diminished.
All this for George Bush’s ego? I think not. It’s time for him to go.
I don’t understand who’s in charge when we “unsurge” and leave.
There is no secure security force of any kind that I can see.
There is no possiblity of peace until the average Iraq wants his country more than he hates his religious counter-parts.
And they call Islam the religion of “peace”?
gster – I can see Iraqis mourning their dead at Haditha saying “And they call Christianity the religion of “peace”"
See what you want- you still miss the point.