The big diplomatic debate is whether the United States should engage Iran and Syria as part of finding a solution in Iraq. But according to a senior U.S. intelligence official, Iran and Syria are already engaged — in a bad way. Hezbollah in Lebanon has trained 1,000 to 2,000 members of Muqtada al-Sadr’s militia army, the New York Times reported. Iran facilitated this training, with the cooperation Syrian officials.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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They have been from the beginning, funding and training the SHiites along with other groups even the Sunni so that they can stall and defeat the moves of the U.S. in Iraq. BTW they are not alone, many in the Middle East have aided in the failure of the U.S. in Iraq. They see it as a danger to their own governments. They are looking at it from the other side of the coin. If the U.S. should be victorious then it could cause the house of Saudi to fail or be overthrown. Also by giving their home grown terrorists a focus then they will not be focusing on their own oppressive governments.
The Libs would have us engage these terrorists countries in peace talks. Why would we do that? It would be a no-win situation.
Bush commented within the last 7-10 days that we will leave Iraq when the job is done OR when the Iraqi government asks us to leave.To me this means Bush team is cooking a deal for early exit and will have Iraq call for our withdrawal, probably late next year.Karl Rove got his little butt beat in November and I believe he is most likely working this deal. Look for more statements from Bush where he tags on the line “or when they ask us to leave.”Hey, for me, if that’s how Bushy and Rove get us out of there, I’m happy with it. But let’s not get clouded in 08 because the GOP and Bushy will be blowing smoke about how Bush kept his word…etc.This is shaping up as a political squeeze for the GOP to keep the white house after 08.
Fleet, What do we have to lose at this point? Not talking or trying to compromise has been Bush’s strategy all along, how’s that been working out?
On another train of thought…Syria and Iran seem to be taking our influence away…and Malaki may just ask us to leave because he sees more stability with Syria and Iran.
…and the senate and house are holding hearings next year which should make our nation embroiled in gobbledeegook until the Dems control congress and the white house….if it means dragging bush through the gutter, I’m all for it.
Any clear minded leader could have predicted Syria’s and Iran’s growing influence in Iraq. Instead we get the faith based leader that speaks to God, and God tells him to go to Iraq, (I’m wondering if it wasn’t Satan, masquerading). Bush thought he was going to set up a Domino Democracy practice in the ME, and threaten the other govt.s in the area, who would eventually be overthrown by Freedom loving Islamist. The Guy is Whacko.
I’m happy that Syrian and Iran are getting involved. Iraq was an invention of the British Empire. It represented the concept, “Might Makes Right”. But, the ultimate reality is that you have people who have lived for millenia in a land. Mesopotamia was “civilized” long before Europe. So they’re sitting on trillions of dollars worth of oil. Lucky them.
The construct of imperial powers controlling far-distant peoples and natural resources is crumbling, as it has every time it has been practiced for the last 3000 years. You can’t parasitically suck on people without eventual backlash, and without experiencing failure to control.
Part of the “New World Order” delusion of Bush the slightly Smarter.
The Iran Prez hates America and wants us all dead. He hates the Jews and wants them all dead. We shouldn’t be in offical talks with a guy like that.
What is your solution, Fleet? More troops? More bombs? Stay the course?
This situation in Iraq is a fucking mess – there are no good answers on the table. SOMETHING has to change!
I would love to hear your ideas.
Seriously.
It is a mess. I would vote for more troops and more bombs. And, from you people, more will to win.
What does “winning” look like fleet? Define it and how we get there.
Winning is when the Iraqis can go about there business in relative peace. It’s when Iran and the others stop giving arms to their terrorist buddys in Iraq. It’s when the idiot Iraqis take the gift that has been given to them and take responsibility for their own future.One day, for me at least, the compassion train will run out on this deal too, but not yet.
HotWood has been busy this morning. Unlike me, he doesn’t bother with church, apparently.
Hey, why bother to talk to God when you can just tune in to Rush?
Anyway, HotWoodLicker, when I want to find out what liberals “want” I won’t ask you.
I’ll tell you what this liberal wants: I want you and your ilk to fight the war you started and to pay for it.
You’re not doing either.
DRAFT YOUNG REPUBLICANS!
capn-I don’t go to church, but I am helping to pay for the war.
And exactly how do we achieve your definition of winning, fleetwood? I agree that the Iraqi’s have to take control of their situation, but are american troops helping the situation?
I’ve already said, more troops, more bombs.
Where are you going to get the troops, Fleet, and who are you going to bomb?
Should we resume the draft?
Should we bomb the Shia? The Sunnis? The Kurds?
Since the Iraqis are primarily fighting each other, should we just kill them all?
We have the troops, no draft.Bomb the bad guys.
Certainly we should enlist the aid of Iran. American and England supported a coup in Iran to bring democracy to the secular democracy of Iran in order to install a brutal, militaristic dictator. They have experience in the matter, of a sort, of dealing with messes started by America and England.
“Bomb the bad guys.”
Who are the bad guys, Fleet?
“We have the troops, no draft.”
We have units in Iraq on their THIRD year long tour of duty. How much more should we ask of them, Fleet?
The bad guys are the ones killing us. From what I hear, the troops are gung-ho.
Fleetwood says winning is when Iran stops giving arms to their buddies. Does that also include the US when we give arms to our buddies?
The US foreign policies have not always been for the best of the global community either. For example, Reagan and Daddy Bush gave arms to Saddam (the same dictator that Bush Jr went after) – was action also wrong? If it is wrong for Iran to give arms to their buddies – then the same must be said for Reagan and Daddy Bush.
fleettwood does not need facts, or reality to support his opinions.
“The bad guys are the ones killing us. From what I hear, the troops are gung-ho.”
I have to wonder where you get your information, Fleet. Your claim that the troops are gung ho is in direct contridiction with reports of stress levels, PTSS, etc, combat fatigue, etc.
As for “bad guys” killing us – the primarly issue of violence in Iraq is Iraqi on Iraqi. If it was simply a matter of containing the anti-American violence, the task would be much easier.
You may have heard, Fleet, that Iraq is now in a civil war. That means that they are fighting EACH OTHER.
So, Fleet, how do you plan on ending a civil war that we started?
hey fleetwood…
What about this nice “gift” we gave? 340 metric tons of high explosives that the U.S. failed to secure during the invasion. Ooops.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/al_qa_qaa-explosives.htm
Anyone with the least bit if intelligence knew this would be the outcome of Bush’s elective invasion. We had predicted it long ago. Dropping more bombs in Iraqi citizens will only make things worse.
As I have said, the result of this will be an anti-US Syria-Iraq-Iran alliance stretching from the Mediterrenean to Pakistan and a stronger alQuada in Pakistan and Afghanistan. The split that used to exist with US ally Saddam against Syria and Iran (and against alQuada) is no linger there.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
Fleettwood = Bush = idiot warmonger
I have noticed that Fleet is long on slogans and short on specifics, such as, who are the bad guys?
Perhaps we can send the folks from Miami Ink over to Iraq to tattoo “BAD GUY” on the foreheads of the folks that are causing problems.
That makes as much sense as “bomb the bad guys.”
Fleet = (voluntarily) uninformed warmonger.
We can’t leave yet.
More info for the (voluntarily) uninformed,
‘War simulation in 1999 pointed out Iraq invasion problems’http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/04/war.games.ap/” A series of secret U.S. war games in 1999 showed that an invasion and post-war administration of Iraq would require 400,000 troops, nearly three times the number there now.
And even then, the games showed the country still had a chance of dissolving into chaos.”—-
Like Kerry meant to say — if you don’t do your homework, you get us “stuck in Iraq”.
“We can’t leave yet.”
So, what’s the plan, Fleet?
We started a civil war in a foreign country and now we have to deal with it. We can’t pull out because chaos will be the result? More troops, even though we have already stretched our men and women to the breaking point? Bomb the Hell out of Iraq so that we can be even more hated, if that’s possible, in the Middle East?
Let’s start with this one – impeach and remove Bush and Cheney from office…..
Look guys. We can’t leave yet. Yes it is a mess, but I support the president. I sometimes suspect that you people hate Bush so much that his failure, you think, would be a good thing. Our failure in Iraq would be bad for America and I don’t want that.I’m not a goddamned expert. As you can tell by my posts, I don’t have a plan. I support the mission. I support the president. I am only hoping that we (America) can get this right. I never have been a big fan of all the “helping” we do around the world, all the money we send to shithole countries for nothing, for no results. But, we are there and sniping about it won’t get the job done. Hating the prez and hoping for his failure is not productive. We are at war, but you people don’t wish to acknowledge it. It is a mess. This talk of impeaching Bush, etc, only makes my point.
And Fleet will be the first yelling the loudest when he, his children, and his grandchild (if he has them) has to pay for this. The longer it goes on, the higher and longer the taxes to pay for it will go on. And then there’s money for reconstruction…
Remember Fleet, the national debt and deficit numbers DO NOT include war costs. Tack that on and see what you get…if we ever know the real figures.
Yeah WS, show the world we are sorry. Things are fucked up here at home. Let’s get ourselves right before we start fuckin with other people’s shit…again.
Fleet, we’ve already failed in Iraq. Miserably.
Isn’t it ironic that those who propose to just bomb everything in sight are the ones that actually do not have to go do it?
It’s easy to send over soldiers that are not your family or friends. Is this why George W. Bush’s two girls never enlisted in their daddy’s war?
Iran is one of the bad guys? Why did saint Ronald give them guns?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_Affair
Iran-Contra AffairFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, searchThe Iran-Contra Affair (also called the Iran-Contra Matter and Iran-gate) was one of the largest political scandals in the United States during the 1980s. [1] It involved several members of the Reagan Administration who in 1986 helped sell arms to Iran, an avowed enemy, and used the proceeds to fund the Contras, an anti-communist guerrilla organization in Nicaragua. [2]
After the arms sales were revealed in November 1986, President Ronald Reagan appeared on national television and denied that they had occurred.[3] But a week later, on November 13, he returned to the airwaves to affirm that weapons were indeed transferred to Iran. He denied that they were part of an exchange for hostages. [4]
Fleet, you nd Bush have something in common – you don’t have a plan and you don’t have a clue. It is not hope when i make correct predictions; it is simple intelligence. It is too bad that is in such short supply on your side of this deal; otherwise your boy would not have deliberately created this mess.
How convenient for you; your boy ceates a disaster for America and you blame those who warned him against doing it.
fleettwood = Bush = scapegoaterwho refuses to take reponsibility for his actions
See this is the trap fleet and those like him are stuck in. They are reduced to naive wishing for “victory”. Then they want to question anyone who isn’t on board with them as not wanting victory.
Hey I can wish for it to rain sugarplums. My heartfelt desire for it will not will it into reality.
“Victory” as defined by bush and the few who still genuflect for him is simply not possible or realistic.
Maybe we should invade ourselves we have supplied arms to Iraq, Iran, AQ and the Taliban.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/10/1425222
During Reagan’s 8 years in power, the CIA secretly sent billions of dollars of military aid to the mujahedeen in Afghanistan in a US-supported jihad against the Soviet Union. We take a look at America’s role in Afghanistan that led to the rise of Osama bin Laden’s al Qaeda with Pulitzer prize-winning journalist Steve Coll, author of Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001.
I love America, Fleet, but yes, I do hate Bush. This blog is not large enough for me to list all the reasons that I hate Bush. The fact remains, however, I LOVE our troops, our brave men and women.
Goddamn it, George W Bush, is not representative of MY country. He does not deserve the title of Commander In Chief. It makes me sick that he claims the mantle of leader of the men and women that so bravely serve OUR country.
I don’t hope for the failure of GWB – I personally wish that the &#^$%% would do something RIGHT for a change!
Sorry for the rage, Fleet, but this is MY country also. I hate the fact that the Village Idiot from Crawford, Texas is the face of my country. We are better than that, we are better than him.
This is the greatest country on Earth. We are the greatest people on Earth. We are the people.
All of that comes with a huge responsibility. Under the Bush “leadership” we have failed that responsibility. We have failed to be humble and use our massive power in a wise and decent manner. We have wasted the goodwill of the world that was extended to us after 9/11. We have wasted 3,000 of our young men and women because an idiot President thought that he was a “war president.”
Bush has failed us.
We deserve better.
fleett’s strategy is to accuse those of us who are intelligent enough to see what is going on as being those who cause it. He refuses to admit that it was HIS BOY’S ACTIONS tht have caused this.
Typical “shoot the messenger” attitude of the blind BushBots who refuse to see that their Emporer has no clothes.
What bothers me most is you people have a little too much glee with our mess over there. The hatred for Bush pushes you into a hate American as long as he is President mode. There doesn’t seem to be a will to win over there. The Democrat’s only plan is to get the hell out. I think we can do better that that over there. More troops would be a first step. I am looking forward to the Baker commission report.
“hate American”
This is MY country, Fleet!
The sons and daughters dying in Iraq are MY sons and daughters. The goodwill that has been wasted was the goodwill direct towards ME. The treasure wasted is MY treasure. The mess that Bush has created is MY mess. The hatred directed towards America is directed at ME.
This is MY country, Fleet.
I am America.
Why is that Bushbots just don’t hear what anyone else says? Just because the majority of Americans disagree with George W. about HIS handling of the war – does not make them unpatriotic or Americans that want to see our country lose this war.
Quite the contrary, it takes bravery, courage and patriotism to speak out against the president when it is obvious to everyone (even the blind) that this Iraq war is one big mess.
I question anyone who is so blinded by loyalty to one man that they are willing to let our country go down in defeat in Iraq by continuing the ’stay the course’ strategy.
There is no “glee” in watching the damage your boy is doing to my country fleett. It is horror and dismay. Those are the emotions that then translate to anger against those who deliberately damage our country and those like you who aid and abet them.
Like I said, fleettwood does not need (or use) facts, or reality to support his opinions.
If I were happy everytime George W. Bush did something stupid and hurtful to this country, I’d be the happiest man alive.
How long will you CONservatives keep “supporting” this obvious incompetent, ignorant, stupid, lying POS catastrophe that walks on two legs like a man?
I guess forever.
It’s easier than thinking.
fleettwood,
Yeah, more gasoline on the fire sounds like a good solution to the mess in Iraq. Enjoy yourself as you continue shouting into the wind.
The situation in Iraq reminds me of a line from “Sex in the City,” when Carrie says to Big,
“we’re so over, we need a new word for ‘over’.”
Even Rummy recognized that this is becoming a fiasco. Only the most devoted blind BushBots refuse to see that. Fleettwood admits that there is no plan but he still urges “stay the course” – even though he has no clue where that course will lead.
BushBots = lemmings
I serve fleetwood, and I am opposed to this war. We have an exhausted military, the resources of a ground war with Iran and Syria would be astronomical. It is time to come home and heal the wounds.It is hard to justify a war against SOME of the world’s nations who deny human rights when we are in bed with China.We just have to live our lives the right way, and those oppressed across the world need to fend for themselves.
Capnamerica,Reading your post hours ago…Does a person need to go to church on Sunday to talk to God? If you believe this then you Sir/Ma`am have been manipulated. Judging by your postings, you are also brainwashed by that Christian Soldier we call our dumb president.
I think Bush’s Daddy should be praised for liberating Kuwait and leaving Saddam alone. His son is a fucking idiot, no other way about it. His Daddy knows it too.”Poor son, tried to make his daddy proud, ended up working hard into the night trying to keep Terri Shiavo alive but had no problem sentencing American troops to death.Let us never forget George W. Bush, Bill Frist, and Tom Delay…for their absolute disregard for American values.
WSClark
That was a wonderful manifesto. It says what I feel, only it is better written.
Thanks,
Andrew – thank you for your service and your thoughts and perspective. Stay safe.
fleetwooded,”I am looking forward to the Baker commission report.”
The leaked reports indicate the commission is advising either a) involve the interested parties in the region – Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, or b) begin a gradual re-deployment.
Having heard these leaks, GW Bush is already waving off the signals sent in by his father and the Bush family savior, James A. Baker, III (also the Saudi’s attorney for denying 9/11 victims compensation) – a great American if you love oil riches more than the American people.
I doubt if you will be any happier with the Baker commission report than your hero, GW Bush. In GW Bush world, the only thing worse than doing what Clinton has done, is to do what poppy recommends.
Beyond, way beyond, pathetic.
You are correct Steven; next thing fleettwood will be labeling the Baker Commission members “America-haters” like he does anyone who disagrees with his hero GWB.
The psychology of staying or redeploying in Iraq:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/03/AR2006120300932.html
Iran is the “bad guy” by virtue of the political difference between our two governments.
We don’t want them to have nukes (and rightly so), but they feel they have the right to possess them.
Iran is more advanced that a lot of people want to believe…they are doing to us what we did to the Russians in Afghanistan. What the Russians and Chinese did to us in Vietnam. They are fighting us without fighting us.
Ahmahednajad (sp?) doesn’t want everyone in the US dead; he doesn’t want all Christians dead. What he wants is respect as a modern nation. He’s trying to prove they can influence things outside of their sandbox.
A peaceful solution to the IRAN situation is still out there…it’s just a matter of who stops puffing their chest up first.
~Dubyahttp://www.wichitavoice.com/blog/
“A peaceful solution to the IRAN situation is still out there…it’s just a matter of who stops puffing their chest up first.”
Good point, Dub. If we didn’t have a cowboy in the White House, it would be possible to make some progress. I think we are probably doomed until January 2009.
Fleetwood, do you support nuking the middle east?
he has already called for such genocide
spyer & hmmm-Nukes are not needed and I have called for no such thing.
ok, how about just cluster bombs to exterminate the “ragheads”?
Al-Sadr’s militia being trained in Iran once again demonstrates the importance of religion as opposed to nationality. I’ll say it again: unless and until there is the development of a national identity in Iraq, all attempts to establish a “democracy” is doomed to fail.