Just as the six-party talks resumed about North Korea’s nukes, President Bush signed the long-sought nuclear deal with India Monday aimed at increasing high-tech trade and “paving the way for India to join the global effort to stop the spread of nuclear weapons,” Bush said. That sounds good, but the North Koreans, Iranians and other wannabe nuclear nations will see something else in the India deal — a reward for India’s refusal to sign the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty or submit to full international inspections. And disarmament proponents fear it will just lead to more nuclear proliferation.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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72 Comments
Can you spell “double standard”? Seems we are all in favor of nuclear proliferation when it suits us.
Perhaps, with nuclear armaments, we as a world need to get back to the concept of MAD; everything else that is being tried is seemingly not working.
But you have to remember, Vaughn, that Islamic extremists don’t care if they die. After they destroy their enemies (and themselves in the process), they get to romp in paradise with all those virgins in the afterlife. What man could resist that?You have to remember the mindset and beliefs of these people, they don’t see the world the way we do. We can’t project our values or our will onto them, it just won’t work no matter how much we threaten them, no matter how big and destructive our weapons are.
Damn, Mary, I’m too damned old to even teach one, let alone seventy-two. Especially, if I was dead! :)
Mary – many of the extremists we are helping get nukes are not Muslim.
Double Standards aren’t bad – especially in this situation.
DID RHONDA JUST LUMP INDIA WITH NORTH KOREA AND IRAN?
Memo to Rhonda – India – not a terrorist state. Iran and North Korea – dangerous terrorist state.
Yeah but…..aren’t we getting mangoes or comquatts or sumpin’ really valuable for (once again) ignoring everything we stand for, treaty for, and say we won’t tolerate?Huh, aren’t we, huh?
Oh and I forgot.It’s Bill Clinton’s fault.
Huie…”Memo to Rhonda – India – not a terrorist state. Iran and North Korea – dangerous terrorist state.”…????What utter ignorance! Hindu fundamentalists/suprematists have killed both Muslims and Christians in the recent past. And so, now, nuclear tech for them?
Paul – that wasn’t me; that was ‘captain_poindexter’. I said the opposite.
India has one of the worst proliferation records that started with its abuse of “civilian” Canadian technology they promised would be used for peaceful purposes but instead directed towards weapons use. The proposed help will allow India to use its domestic production primarily for military purposes whilst its civilian needs are met through the agreement.
What utter ignorance! Hindu fundamentalists/suprematists have killed both Muslims and Christians in the recent past. And so, now, nuclear tech for them?
And so have KKK killed blacks, Christians have massacred muslims in Sudan. Some hindu fundamentalists killed christians/muslims doesnt mean India as a country supports it. FYI, Indian president is a muslim and Indian defense minister is a Christian. Get your facts right. The only nation to ever nuke other country is USA. The only nation which has never invaded another country in its entire history is INDIA.
Please Remember India already has nuclear power! It is a matter of refining it and tring to keep it from leaving the country. News Flash. India has one of the best school systems and by 2010 the highest population. And they are leading the world in engineering and pharmacology. The only reason they are not the strongest world power is because they still have a few old pharts running government. When they are dead, 10 years, India will become a leading world power in everything!
Actually Iran DOES care if dies. It has shown a very pragmatic foreign policy as an Islamic Republic. In 1997, when a bunch of Iranian diplomats were killed by the Taliban in Afghanistan, Iran massed its troops at the border but decided to not start a war. After 9-11, Iran helped the US stabilize Afghanistan to try to improve its relationship with it (3 weeks afterwards it was rewarded by being called part of the “axis of evil” by Bush).
Iran has had chemical and biological weapons for decades, but it did not use them in retaliation for Iraq’s chemical attack in the Iran-Iraq war, in order to stay on the right side of international law. Also, it has not given any of its chemical/biological weapons or any of its very long range missiles to Hizbollah.
It is pragmatic.
I’m more worried about North Korea.
India wants to nuke Pakistan. Pakistan wants to nuke India.Iran wants to nuke Israel.Israel wants to nuke Iran.
I’m sure glad the “Cold War” is over. I sure sleep better at night, don’t you?
Oh, and I forgot. North Korea wants to nuke everybody.
Iran also acted with extreme restraint when one of its civilian airliners was blown out of the sky by the USS Vincennes.
“What utter ignorance! Hindu fundamentalists/suprematists have killed both Muslims and Christians in the recent past. And so, now, nuclear tech for them?”
How recent is that ???….as far as i remember India was ruled by Muslims for 200 years and then the British came and “saved” India for next 100 years.
Muslims are responible for the genocide in Biafra killing 2million + Biafrans
Muslims have terrorised Israel
Muslims Have terrorised Singapore in the Malaysian region
Muslims have terrorised the United States and Britian
Muslims have terrorised India
Muslims have terorised Australia
Muslims have even terrorised people living in the Caribbean
Muslims even terorise muslims its thier culture.
Basically Muslims made trouble in all contents of the world
So Tracey please feel free to enlighten this student of international relations; As i see it arming India is a threat to the Muslims residing in pakistan and afghanistan. It also keeps China in check, which benefits the US as China is supporting North korea with its nuclear program underhandingly. India is strategically located for a great US Base as well.
The NPT is an exercise in Double Standards! India has a record of zero proliferation. India has never passed on nuclear know-how to any country as opposed to US to UK or USSR to China. India has never signed the CTBT or the NPT because it’s unfair. It never broke any nuclear co-operation agreement with Canada. Unless a fair nuclear agreement is created, proliferation is going to continue.
As someone else wrote, the only country to have used a nuclear weapon is the US.
Proliferation = spreading technology to countries that don’t have it.To set the record straight, Ben, India has NOT proliferated to third countries.FYI, don’t forget that India is the LARGEST democracy on earth, people. There are free regular elections at the federal, state, local and village levels with an electorate of > 600 million. It is not wise to club India with NK or Iran.The energy needs there are huge. Nuclear technology is necessary to meet the demand. It was wise of India not to sign the NPT, because the 5 nuclear-haves have not committed to nuclear disarmament and lecture and expect other countries (including free socities such as India) to do so. What hypocrisy ! India has every right to nukes just as the US or Britain does.Tracy, India has 1 billion + people with 14 official languages and a very great diversity of people within its borders. The presence of small numbers of fundamentalists of any religion CANNOT blur out the fact that India remains the largest free society on earth.
India is a peace loving country. As someone said it, it has never invaded another country in more than 4000 years of its existence. Moreover it is the largest democracy in the world.
Hindu religion never preached violence. Its perfectly alright to say “Happy Christmas” in India whereas you can only say “Happy Holidays” in USA. How ironic is that? India has national holidays for both Christian and Muslim festivals. Does USA has those holidays? No. Taj Mahal is a great national treasure even though its not a Hindu icon.
Some of the previous suggests show how people profile all brown people to Muslims. Anything east to USA/Europe is not Muslim/Communist. Get a world map and a history book before you post something.
The Indo-US deal is “Civil Nuclear Technology Transfer” for energy (for 1.3 billion people & her fast growing sectors) in return for opening the reactor sites to international inspection. People need to get the facts straighten up here: India DOES NOT need nukes for Pak as it has an edge in terms of conventional forces; and to my understanding, India has a No First Use (wrt Nukes). By the way, fanatacism (whichever religion) is the root and most of them have had some shady history!
India has over a billion people and an electorate of more than 600 million. Fair enough. It has 14 official languages, Okay. It is NOT the largest “democracy” in the world, simply the most populated nation to call itself a “democracy” that operates under a thousand or more year old “caste” system that would make Stepinfetchit think that 1850 in the United States was Nirvana.
It is a country teetering on the brink of starvation daily, whose idea of birth control is “don’t eat the cows”.
This is the country where two Ghandi’s were assassinated, as were several other of their leaders, just in my lifetime
Yep, these people definitely need nuclear weapons.
rm6046 ever been to India ? Yes, there are hangovers from casteism just like the racial hangovers of slavery exist in the US even today. Yes, there is appaling poverty as well. But free elections conducted regularly give everyone a voice in government -> definition of democracy. Thats how governments are peacefully voted in and out of power by disgruntled voters in India. I am not doing a favor by calling it a democracy. I think the demoractic processes can be improved greatly. But it still is the largest democracy on earth. If you think it is stuck in 1850, you are so badly mistaken.
Btw, it is Gandhi, not Ghandi. Just to counter your point, the Kennedy’s were assasinated in the US in recent history. Oh..you probably had a cut off date of 1968 just like the NPT…anyway, so hows that related to civilian nuclear technology for a growing economy ?
Nukes, yes, like you have the moral high ground having used nuclear weapons to decimate entire cities in wartime ! Whether India needs nukes or not is decided by elected representatives of the country in the Parliament, not by a dictator like in NK or a fanatic in Iran.
For a moment I was wondering if we were talking of starving children in Africa! The number of official languages is 23!And people of India do not need nuclear weapons, they HAVE them. Caste system is a problem and I am sure you will agree that most countries in the world have social problems; be it racial, religious or caste based. I suspect there have been a few leaders in the new world have been assasinated; (including US), can someone enlighten me?
Thanks for your insightful comments, Ananth and Raul.
A lot of Americans believe their own propaganda (and NEED to believe) that “America is the greatest country in the world!” and they “prove” it by cheap shots against foreign countries.
Pay no attention to the simple fact that we have a huge continent with abundant resources and a relatively small population.
In part because of our own propaganda, our educational system reflects our interests–US. That’s why educated people can’t even spell Gandhi . . .
If you try to dispel all the wrong-headed ideas that Americans have about the rest of the world, you’re going to be doing a lot of posting, my friends.
“you can only say “Happy Holidays” in USA”
MERRY CHRISTMAS BigBang. You know, I have said that a lot and have not been arrested for it. The City’s Christmas concert had Joy to the World, Little Town of Bethlehem, and many others – to the best of my knowledge nobody was arrested for it. I will probably attend midnight Mass again this year – haven’t been arrested yet.
BigBang, I’m confused. Why haven’t I been arrested yet?
As an industrial country India obviously needs nuclear power as do many countries across the globe. I’d like to see some mechanism to govern this worldwide; while India has the intellectual infrastructure to support the industry many countries do not. And such power is needed everywhere.
And to add to the topic of discussion ‘Civil Nuclear Technology Transfer’, I am positive the intricate details (security, threats etc.) will have been well covered unless the policy makers are naïve which is preposterous to imagine. I am glad that this pact is between the United States and India and not some other country simply because the two large responsible democratic nations share a number of common values (spare not eating cows)!
To me n intresting possibility would be for India, with its ‘non-aligned’ history, to be a source of guidance in the application of civilian nuclear technology elsewhere. With Indian technology and the fact that they have NOT had a history of trying to dominate other countries perhaps they could become a leader in the area of energy development.
No, actually my cutoff date is the end of WWII, just to get that straight. Nor do I think India is stuck in 1850 America. I was simply saying that the caste system is far more deeply entrenched and cruel than even slavery in America. Sorry, I misspelled Gandhi — it certainly wasn’t intentional or meant in any derogatory manner. And whether it’s 23 languages or 14 is inconsequential, you two can fight that one out. Now that we have dealt with the specious bullshit, how about getting into the facts.
What we have here is an overpopulated starving economy which continues to grow in indirect proportion to its ability to feed itself, and refuses, for whatever reasons, to eat “any living thing”. I can’t believe that God , Shiva, or whatever, said to his followers, “Starve to death in honor of Me”. What we have here is a government of duly elected representatives of the upper castes. What we have here is a country ripe for civil war or chaos.
Having said that, did I say anywhere that any country should have nukes? Including the United States?
It is a question of Faith mate! Weather or not the world was created in 7 days or if and not Shiva asked his followers to starve to death are the questions that are not linked in whatso ever way to the Civil Energy Deal! I believe that caste is more of an issue to you than the policy makers?
a Folks, please don’t lose your sleep over this deal, I am positive that India will abide by its responsiblity as a nuclear powered nation. Forget the poverty in India for a moment, India’s integrity ever since its independence from British is unspoiled. I don’t think India will ever support a muslim nation or terrorist groups which engages in killing innocent people of any nation on earth. India has worlds 25% of Thorium deposits, let them harvest it for their energy needs and this will definitely cut the world polution by quantom!
rm6046 said: What we have here is an overpopulated starving economy which continues to grow in indirect proportion to its ability to feed itself, and refuses, for whatever reasons, to eat “any living thing”. I can’t believe that God , Shiva, or whatever, said to his followers, “Starve to death in honor of Me”.
Its a misconception that eating meat is strictly prohibited in Hinduism. There are many castes in Hinduism who eat meat. Some follow strict vegetarianism some don’t. Actually Kshatriya’s (Warriors) which is one of the primary groups in Hinduism do eat meat.
You must be kidding when you said eating animals would solve the problem of starvation. Are you serious? Even though Africa doesn’t follow vegetarianism why do they still starve?
Who said India is a country ripe for civil war or chaos? Did you confuse it with Iraq? Even during Mumbai train bomb blasts and bomb blasts in the hindu holy city of Varanasi, people maintained peace and order.
Caste probably is more of an issue to me than to the policy makers. You seem to be so concerned how much India and America are alike, yet you overlook one of the most obvious similarities — the policy makers of both countries are of the highest caste (not necessarily, class), and interested in perpetuating their dominance, not yours or mine or Ananth’s or Ben’s.
And, no, I’ve been to many places in the Far East and Micronesia, Australia, and the Middle East — but I have never been to India. And, I am talking nuclear weapons, not peaceful nuclear technology. Unfortunately, you can’t have one without the potentiality of the other. But, you can’t put the genie back in the bottle or unring the bell …. unfortunately.
Comparing Africa to India is like comparing fish to oranges, and if I have to explain that to you, I’m giving up. The ONLY thing they have in common is overpopulation.
Keeping this as simple as I can:
Eating twigs and berries = possibily of starvation.
Eating twigs, berries and meat = less possibility of starvation.
All the nuclear reactors in galactic imagination do not prevent starvation when there are too many people and not enough food.
I can’t make it any simpler than that.
I view nuclear energy as an alternate energy source especially when talking in context of this agreement between the US and India. I do not think we had any say when the nuclear energy was harnessed for the first time and when the genie was set free. I believe it is absurd to even propose India in the same league as North Korea which sets conditions first, talks later and does exactly the opposite. The idea of the selective few high (class/caste) holding the public offices is repulsive but I am sure we are all wise enough to view their actions in isolation (case by case). The question IS about transfer of nuclear energy between two nations for peaceful purpose and not about making bombs. We are all well placed leaving the social problems to the respective societies. I am sure the higher caste are not plotting to obtain nukes and bomb the lower castes!Leave the faith bit out of the discussion! Will you eat a cat?
You have totally missed the caste issue. Let me put it this way — who are the Indian equivilents of Dick Cheney and Halliburton? I don’t think Dick is going to nuke me, either. Dick’s just going to get richer and Halliburton’s going to get bigger. I’m not comparing India and North Korea. Jesus, Raul, get a grip here!
If it meant the difference between living or dying of starvation, would I eat a cat? Sure. Would I eat MY cat? Not on your life, buddy! And actually, whether you are aware of it or not, cats and dogs are both eaten in parts of Southeast Asia — parts of Cambodia and Laos, and it used to be fairly common in the south part of Myanmar, formerly known as Burma.
I am sure we shall all eat whatever if it came down to survival and starvation. And so shall the starving Indians if it was a question of life and death (but is not eating a BigMac really killing them?) The problem is not only the high end politicians and statesmen abusing power but also grass root people like us who tend to believe that our way is the only way. Will the nuclear agreement make someone rich..quite possibly…but will it light up millions of houses where kids can study and contribute to this society…Definitely!
And yet another nation joins the ranks of nuclear power status!
Kumbaya!
Double Standard???Iran = Dictatorship (Historically Evil)India = Democracy (Historically Secular)North Korea = You don’t want to know…
Please don’t talk if you don’t know what your talking about… Here in America Democracy and Secularism mean something and are credible if the country is credible…
No nation should ever have nuclear weapons at their disposal. The cold war is over! If America really is committed to nuclear non-proliferation then why doesnt it just disarm all of its nuclear weapons? Instead America takes the hypocritical role of preventing countries they don’t like from attaining nuclear weapons and willingly gives nuclear weapons to countries it sides with.
America doesnt pay heed to international law, nor does it care of the opinion of the IAEA. This is nothing but IMPERIALISM IN THE 21ST CENTURY.
Though this is not related to the main subject of this thread:
rm6046Quote “I was simply saying that the caste system is far more deeply entrenched and cruel than even slavery in America.”
No right-thinking person today supports the injustices brought on by either the caste system or by slavery. Racial discrimiation in America or the caste discrimination in India will not go away tomorrow. Nothing could be worse than making a physical slave out of a fellow human being for life.
Quote “What we have here is an overpopulated starving economy which continues to grow in indirect proportion to its ability to feed itself, and refuses, for whatever reasons, to eat “any living thing”. I can’t believe that God , Shiva, or whatever, said to his followers, “Starve to death in honor of Me”.
8-9% GDP growth is not a starving economy, though it is very energy- hungry and thats why the nuke power is needed ! If an economy is growing, millions are being lifted out of poverty, so I don’t get the “indirect proportion”. FYI, majority of Indians are non-vegetarians, so cut out your bullshit on eating habits (this thread is supposed to be a discussion on nuclear power for a growing economy.)
Quote “What we have here is a government of duly elected representatives of the upper castes.”"the policy makers of both countries are of the highest caste (not necessarily, class)”
If you imply that the India of today is being governed by “upper castes”, you are factually incorrect. The political class is dominated by people from minorities and non-upper castes. The socio-political environment in India now very strongly supports affirmative action and quotas for non-upper castes and classes in every sphere. Interestingly, the present occupants of the corridors of power are all minorities starting with the President of India – Muslim (strongly supported by the Hindu nationalist party). Prime Minister – Sikh. leader for the Majority Party in Parliament – Christian. Defense Minister – Christian, right down to the states ruled by leaders from non-upper castes and classes.
Quote “What we have here is a country ripe for civil war or chaos.”
What nonsense! This requires that we get down to the drill – ask that you bring out the atlas and history books. Or power up the computer and go online and readup news and current affairs for “India”. You have evidently mistaken it for some another country….and I’ve wasted my time replying to comments by an obviously ignorant person!
“I’ve wasted my time replying to comments by an obviously ignorant person!”
Oh, man, if I had a nickle for everytime I had that thought.
BTW, vegetarianism is a far more efficient diet than our system of meat eating. We use 3000 pounds of grain to get a 1200 pound steer. Telling East Indians to eat their cattle is idiotic. They use the bullocks to plow with and they use the heifers for milk.
It’s like telling an Amishman to eat his draft horse.
Oops, you confused ‘em now, Ananth.
Christians in India? Nah, we’ve never heard of that before. How can they read the Bible if they don’t know English, the language it was WRITTEN in?
It’s like all these fundamentalists that love Israel and ignore the fact that a significant minority of the persecuted Palestinians are Arabic speaking Christians.
Oh well . . .
i didn’t know that Bible was originally written in English. That means people at the time of Jesus spoke and wrote prefect English.
Thanks for enlightning me.
And why ask me about international affairs if you are a student of that?My only point is that we make rules, laws and treaties, and then promptly ignore them whenever the preznut sees fit.
Oh yeah dexter king james wrote the bible and the earth is only a few thousand years old.
Actually Tracy,
The Earth is around 6000 years old.
Yeah, I know.And liberals suck.GW and Rummy have been right on everything.Global warming is a joke.Bush is a succesfull businessman and a Texan.
I’m learning, thanks.
Tracy,
First of all, throughout history treaties have been violated or ignored.
I am not sure which ones you are talking about though.
I am not sure which rules or laws we are breaking either…
You got 2 of those right…
Thanks, I told you I’m learning.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/04/30/bush_challenges_hundreds_of_laws?mode=PF
WASHINGTON — President Bush has quietly claimed the authority to disobey more than 750 laws enacted since he took office, asserting that he has the power to set aside any statute passed by Congress when it conflicts with his interpretation of the Constitution.
Among the laws Bush said he can ignore are military rules and regulations, affirmative-action provisions, requirements that Congress be told about immigration services problems, ”whistle-blower” protections for nuclear regulatory officials, and safeguards against political interference in federally funded research.
Legal scholars say the scope and aggression of Bush’s assertions that he can bypass laws represent a concerted effort to expand his power at the expense of Congress, upsetting the balance between the branches of government. The Constitution is clear in assigning to Congress the power to write the laws and to the president a duty ”to take care that the laws be faithfully executed.” Bush, however, has repeatedly declared that he does not need to ”execute” a law he believes is unconstitutional.continued… use link
The entire middle east is a real circus.Tribalism, jihad, fatwa, sunni vs shia,islamic laws, clown dictators threatening everbody, kings with most of the oil, SHEESH.Logic and reason mean nothing in that environment.Even when we understand what’s going on,IT MAKES NO SENSE!
BTW, IF we really wanted to kill terrorists then why did we sit on our hands while 10,000 Sadr followers danced in the street, burning american flags and chanting death to America.When I saw this scene on TV, I couldn’t f**cking believe it!Where were all the hawks?
10,000 F’ing terrorists ALL in the same place at the same time!!!!!!!!Can’t we just do a couple of cluster bombs and be done with the ‘Mahdi army’?
What is in it for us?
I came across this website while browsing. Quite enlightening the arguments and readers comments on this site. I see most of the readers are Americans with some LOUD Indians as usual. Good luck boys (to Indians on this site! as well as to you white boys) for defending with so much enthusiasm.
I sometimes think why do we (India) need to get certified by the rest of the world (meaning countries richer than us) for every decision. Are we going to take revenge on those countries which previously humiliated us and now are minnow powers (read Portugal, UK and France)? I wonder.
V,Indian citizen in UK)
What about it?Do we wanna kill them before they kill us?OR NOT?
Hello V.I’m not anti-India.I’m just pointing out that US foreign policy SUCKS!
Oh, and sorry about the weather over there.Especially this time of year.
CapnAmerica, promise me you will post at least twice a day for the rest of your meager existence. I thoroughly enjoy reading the nonsense you write: Americans are uneducated because they can’t spell, the Bible was “WRITTEN” in English, and that somehow the citizens of the US should regret living on a continent with abundant resources. Although our population recently passed 300 million, we have roughly a quarter that of India. Maybe preaching birth control isn’t such a bad idea after all, but none of this adresses the column.The point is, India already has nuclear weapons, as has been stated numerous times in this thread. Further nuclear assistance geared toward fulfilling the nation’s energy needs changes nothing in terms of India’s nuclear weapons.One more note. Many of you chose to use the United State’s use of nuclear weapons in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in the context “no country has ever used them but…”. I guess the passing of 60 years has allowed all of you to forget what WOULD have happened if Truman had nixed Big Bertha. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions would have died. The real events are a tragedy which should never be forgotten, but the alternative would have left a wound from which the world would still suffer.
Way to go Bush, you made the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty obsolete. Now any nation can feel free to pursue nukes and the international community is powerless to do anything. Bush is one international failure after another.
“international community is powerless to do anything.”
What changed?
Since India helped Iran develop their nuclear program, and Iran is part of the “axis of evil” doesn’t that make India part of the “axis of evil”? If so, why is Bush sending nuclear material to his enemy?
Doug:Since India helped Iran develop their nuclear program, and Iran is part of the “axis of evil” doesn’t that make India part of the “axis of evil”? If so, why is Bush sending nuclear material to his enemy?
Could you send me a reference where you found this? As far as I know, India has never transfered nuclear technology to any country.
Banger: And being in such a high security position, they certainly would have sent you a high-priority top secret communique by ….carrier pigeon, perhaps?
rm6046:And being in such a high security position, they certainly would have sent you a high-priority top secret communique by ….carrier pigeon, perhaps?
If Doug has the top secret information that India has transfered technology to Iran, I surely have the info saying it didn’t.
DC, IF you knew your history…you would know that the incendiary bombing campaign in WW2 caused FAR more casualties than the 2 nukes.Just as they did in Dresden and other european cities.The nukes did probably save lives, but I believe the ‘millions lost in invasion’ meme is a little over stated.
Tracy: DC, IF you knew your history…you would know that the incendiary bombing campaign in WW2 caused FAR more casualties than the 2 nukes.
Nothing can justify the use of 2 nukes. It was wrong then it is wrong now. If you go according to your logic, far more people die in New York due to road accidents than they did on 9/11. Would that justify the killings? NEVER.
rm6046:And being in such a high security position, they certainly would have sent you a high-priority top secret communique by ….carrier pigeon, perhaps?
This person needs to get a life. Or perhaps, an award for being the most ignorant person, on here!
Banger: Then go after Doug, not me! I don’t think either of you have anything but what you’ve read or seen in the media.
Patrito(?): What rock did you crawl out from under? What, exactly, is a “patrito” and what do you serve with it?
And, Banger, before you jump all over Tracy’s ass, cluster bombs aren’t nukes …… duh! Know your weaponry.
rm6046: And, Banger, before you jump all over Tracy’s ass, cluster bombs aren’t nukes …… duh! Know your weaponry.
You missed the main point. The point is use of weapons of mass destruction on civilians. At the time of the attack the population of Hiroshima was 255,000 and that of Nagasaki 240,000. I am sure you are also aware of the after effects of these two bombs. No matter what the reasons might be, it irritates me that people defend it. We should accept that what happened 60 years ago was still a mistake.
And that at least 1 million lives were saved that would have been lost had there been a full-scale invasion of mainland Japan isn’t important to your thesis? Military, civilian, Allied and Axis lives, I might respectfuully add. How big a mistake is saving 1 million lives?
Considering this topic was created for the sole purpose of discussing the Indo – US nuclear deal, rm6046 has done nothing but divert the topic.rm6046 – seems like you have all the time in the world to post these fallacious statements. It would rather make sense if you got your facts right before you go about posting anymore of “your little dogmas”!