Were last week’s federal raids on Swift meatpacking plants, involving more than 1,000 federal agents in six states, meaningful action toward fixing the nation’s broken immigration system? The Wall Street Journal editorial board thinks not: “1,000 federal agents that could have been focused on potential terrorists or other dangerous threats were instead focused on a meatpacking company that hires thousands of willing unskilled workers and pays them more than twice the minimum wage with full health benefits after six months. How’s that for government efficiency?”
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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130 Comments
And were the people who knowingly hired these illegals punished? Probably not. Companies hire illegals knowing they can be paid less and threatened with deportation so the only way to prevent the hiring of illegals is to go after the employers.
Perhaps since the meatpackers in Kansas have the protection of Brownback they can get away scotfree.
If it takes 100,000 federal agents to go after illegal aliens and bottom feeders like Swift, then so be it.
Holman, one the the key points of contention here is the lack of import of the word “legal.” To you and people like you, and to those who support the “migration” of peoples and their “right” to go wherever they choose on their own terms, the words legal and illegal are meaningless.
To you who are mostly politically liberal and essentially Marxist atthe core, the rights of the illegals take precedence over everything. In fact, the very nature of their illegal status confers on them as pseudo-sainthood. They are “pure” in their intention, they represent”the poor of the earth” and as a result, they’re virtually untouchable and regarded with a bizarre reverence.
No criticism is allowed. Whatever they want or need must be theirs. No questions. No complaints. Anyone who questions or complains is hit with the all-purpose accusation: racist. It is the epitome of denigration andno defense is tolerated. If you complain, regardless of the validity of your issues, you are, de facto, a racist.
Crawl back in your hole, Holman. You make me want to vomit.
Isn’t the right to “due process” accorded to everyone or just those who happen to be born between the borders of Canada and Mexico?
Blaidd Drwg, NO. They do not have “Due process” as they are not citizens. Humanitarian issues yes, but gurantee of staying here, coming hers, or protection as a citizen, NO. THEY ARE A CITIZEN FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY!!! We have to live by Mexico’s laws when we visit there, and Canada’s as well. We do not tell them how to run their immigration laws, and they do not dictate to us.
What is funny is that MExico sent 25,000 Mexican Army personnel down to their southern border to stop the influs into MEXCICO from the South and Central American Countries. So they should not bitch too much when we militarize our border to keep THEM OUT!
As far as the raid being a “waste of resources” no way. The Federal Government is NOW getting serious about IDENTY THEFT and FRADULENT IDNETITY.
As for journalists “thinking” that is oxymoronic, and “Thinking about the use of federal resources” in conjunction with Immigration Law Enforcement and Idnety Theft and Security, whether it be from the WE or the Wall Street Journal.
It is OBTUSE that a journalist that sits in an office and reads a newspaper article thinks they know more than the officers and enforcement personnel that have been investigating this particular set of crimes for over a year.
What started this investigation? A hispanic American Citizen was first fired from Swift because she was not an illegal aliens, and che cost too much. Then Swift gave someone else her SSN. That new illegal alien employee went out and shoplifted and kited checks, and the local authorities arrested the LEAGL AMERICAN CITIZEN whom was fired and did nothing wrong.
As for these being jobs that Americans “won’t do”, you may notice that Swift only shut down for 2-3 days and had multiple people (citizens) whom wanted a job at the Swift plant.
You guys need to wake the hell up. You opinion in favor of Illegal ALIENS is being molded by the corrupt and not guided by humanity.
Go check out Roy West’s video on “NumbersUSA.org”. We are in BIG trouble and aur utopia goes away if this is not confronted and stopped.
I never mentioned a thing about allowing illegals to stay in this country, not once. These people DO have basic human rights though. If you are shortsighted enough to believe building a fence on our southern border or deploying troops along the same is going to solve the problem, you haven’t really thought this one out very well.
Blaidd Drwg,
Immigration Laws are the laws of the U.S.
Nothing you can do about it, but act like a terrorist!
TEE HEE
But Blaid..you did infer that they have the RIGHT of due process. No, they do NOT. Those are RIGHTS afforded to citizens of this country. Basic human rights? Oh puhleeeze. The illegals are not being tortured, executed, enslaved or starved to death. They are being arrested and sent back to THEIR COUNTRY.
They can run around with their Mexican flags screaming about rights all they want..they are not citizens and the Bill of Rights does NOT apply to them. If they want rights, they need to stay in their own damn country.
How many “rights” to an attorney do you think you have when arrested in Mexico? NONE.
FW, stupid comeback. I don’t see either side of this issue resorting to the terrorist tactics of Operation Rescue and their allies. Clearly, you must actually believe our immigration laws are enforceable, I do not. Even you do consider these desperate people lawbreakers, they are still accorded certain rights. Oh, I forgot, you are undoubtedly of the faction that thinks the US shouldn’t follow the Geneva Conventions on captured war combatants.
From Blaidd drwg:”If you are shortsighted enough to believe building a fence on our southern border or deploying troops along the same is going to solve the problem, you haven’t really thought this one out very well.”
Well China did it and it worked to keep N. Koreans out of China. Mexico is also “militarizing” their southern border.
I guess that is OK for just about everyone else to PROTECT and CONTROL their border except fot rhe US. Is that just about right in your mind?
If you are shortsided enough to believe a “guest worker program” or “amnesty” is going to work you are also insane.
There is only one thing that will solve the problem: Shut the border down. No more uncontrolled illegal entries. That is a fundamental responsibility of the government, and should be the FIRST priority. Anything else is just smoke and mirrors and politicians with no backbone.
Anyone (citizen or not) arrested for a crime in this country does have due process rights. If they didn’t, what would stop someone from summarily executing them on sight?
Unzipped your fly there Blaidd drwg and showed us just what and whom you are, a liberal! LOL what a dufus! Operation Resuce? Gitmo detainees? Geneva Conventions on captured war combatants?
You are off your trolley. What would stop someone from summarily executing people on sight? Our society does. One with LAWS and LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. You cna however go to just about any banana ripublic in the SOuth or Central America and get “summarily executed”, in fact in Nuevo Laredo that happens at least weekly and usually daily.
That is why people like you need to learn befor you make stupid comments like you have.
Blaidd Drwg,
Immigration Laws are the laws of the U.S.
Nothing you can do about it, but act like a terrorist!
TEE HEE
He is acting like a racist terrorist lover.
These people from these other countries make me SICK. We are decendants from folks that believed “Give me liberty of give me death!”
This crop we get from south of the border has a couple of different sayings that is illustrated by their actions,
“Give me Liberty or I will runn away!”
And the ever popular,
“Give me liberty or I will steal yours.”
The immigration problem IS about race and until people understand that, nothing will change! “Our” government is cowardly and corrupt and only blood in the street will set thing right!
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Yes, asbestos I am a PROUD member of the Democratic Party. If you that makes me a liberal in your eyes, so be it.
I really love this piece of garbage you posted: “These people from these other countries make me SICK. We are decendants from folks that believed “Give me liberty of give me death!”
Remember, we too were immigrants to this continent. We came and essentially exterminated the native population.
You’re just another sicko right-winger who is probably still supporting ol’ W’s fiasco in Iraq. Why don’t you go watch your DVR of the latest O’Reilley bloviations. Go with the truthiness by all means.
Hey Blaid…in case you forgot, those people are here ILLEGALLY.
That makes them lawbreakers, “desparate” or not, they are lawbreakers simply by standing on US soil.
Here is a thought…for you and all your bleeding heart brethern. Why not move to Mexico and work to improve that economy so the “desparate” workers don’t have to come to this country?
Packing your bags today, are you?
I love it how you people make inferences. Show me one post I have made where I actually typed that I think we should allow all illegal immigrants to stay in this country. You are showing how pathetic and desperate you are.
THIS STATEMENT you idiot BLaidd drwg:
“Remember, we too were immigrants to this continent. We came and essentially exterminated the native population.”
That is the buzz statement for supporting illegal aliens and supporting their “path to citizenship” along with the ever popular:
“They are not illegal Aleins, they are human beings”
Well they are illegal alien human beings, and got to go.
If you did not post that you want them to stay then answer the question:
DO YOU THINK THAT WE SHOULD ALLOW ILLEGAL ALIENS TO STAY IN THIS COUNTRY?
Yes or no?
Changing the topic, Blaid…you said (cut and posted from above)…”Even you do consider these desperate people lawbreakers, ”
Yes…they ARE lawbreakers. Their existence in this country is de facto proof of them breaking our laws. And, they are impacting social services tremendously. Go to any emergency room and see what I mean. Check with the Salvation Army on how they had to recruit dozens of interpreters for all the non-English speaking people applying for assistance. Check out the non-English speakers in our public schools. Check out the jails and arrest volumes that far exceed the population mix.
FACT 1. They are here illegally, which makes them lawbreakers, whether you want to believe that or not, it is a fact.
FACT 2. They negatively impact our country in many, many ways (see above)
FACT 3. The refusal to assimilate into this country/culture by maintaining their language in speech, television and newspapers is a divisive act, not contributing to the diverse culture of this country that millions of LEGAL immigrants have done.
So, Blaid..I respectfully suggest that you to to Mexico and make their lives better there. But..when you are there, don’t try to apply for medical assistance, welfare or schooling. THAT IS NOT ALLOWED for foreigners in Mexico.
A “buzz statement” is not a quote from me. Go back to watching your O’Reilley reruns.
“I love it how you people make inferences. Show me one post I have made where I actually typed that I think we should allow all illegal immigrants to stay in this country. You are showing how pathetic and desperate you are.”Posted by: Blaidd Drwg | December 23, 2006 at 09:33 AM
Immigration Laws are the laws of the U.S.
Nothing you can do about it, but act like a terrorist!
TEE HEE
Be carful of the “filth” and “refuse” that you are supporting. These folks turn on anyone that does not support the amnesty or path to citizenship.
Immigration law must be protected and people should know that we are serious with our laws. The agents have a duty to perform as far as our boarders are corncened, however don’t limit it to the southern boarder there are a lot of Illegal crossing by air from Europe, Asia, Africa etc all these people need to go back. Everybody need to come in within the contex of the law and the law is liberal enough to accommodate all on case aby case basis. We do not need to be emotional about this. God Bless America (USA) land of the free.
“A “buzz statement” is not a quote from me. Go back to watching your O’Reilley reruns.”
Then answer the question chicken shite!
I wonder if Rhonda owns stock in the meat packing plants?
I remember when those were union jobs. Then the illegals came and undervalued the work.
I applaud this and any action to protect American workers. I hope to hear that this company was severely disciplined.
Speeding is illegal too raptor, are ya going to round them all up too?
Incidentally, what’s your plan for rounding up the 12 million+ illegals already living here? Are you going to use the military? Oh, you forgot that the military is engaged in a quagmire in the Middle East. Another blazing right wing triumph! How’s control of the House and Senate, not to mention the Governor and Attorney General working out for you?
Oh yeah..change the subject again, Blaid, nice diversion.
The FACT that these illegals are here illegally has absolutely nothing to do with Iraq, recent elections or anything else. You refuse to accept the fact that they are here ILLEGALLY. Not IF they are breaking the law..they are breaking the law and maintaining a separate culture.
I think the real fear of the right wing here is another amnesty. Let’s see, the last amnesty was by the repug God, Ronnie Reagan. An amnesty might lead to possible citizenship for 12 million+ in the next few years who will remember who tried to send them back and as citizens with voting rights they will vote for the more moderate candidates. How’s that Hispanic/Latino vote going for your repugs anyway? I wonder why ol’ W never bothered to vote in the Valley part of his home state? Could it be that the Hispanics can see the repugs for what they really are?
“Speeding is illegal too raptor, are ya going to round them all up too?
Incidentally, what’s your plan for rounding up the 12 million+ illegals already living here?”
More irrelevant and stupid statments and illegal aliens supporter “Talking Points” taken DIRECTLY off the La Raza and the Atzlan sites. What a dope you are Blaidd drwg!
The 12,000,000 will be deported through atrition. Just like this Christmas, a million of so went back to Mexico to visit, and they will not be allowed into the US with BOGUS Drivers Licenses, and bogus ID’s, and bogus Greencards. There are going to be a lot of empty seats so to speak at the factories and employers that use illegal aliens after the Christmas season. Hopefully we will see wuite a few of them remain in the Great Country of Mexico.
Dude, you are waffling and spinning like a friggin’ top.
Good you finally answered the question sort of. you wnat them here and you want amnesty.
“An amnesty might lead to possible citizenship for 12 million+ in the next few years who will remember who tried to send them back and as citizens with voting rights they will vote for the more moderate candidates. How’s that Hispanic/Latino vote going for your repugs anyway? ”
Being a Democrat I guess you are supporting this position.
Selling out the American Citizen and the Unions that supported the Democratic party for so many years, to a bunch of fucnking illegal screws.
Ya you da man, you are a LOUSEY Citizen there Blaidd drwg.
Blaidd the blog terrorist will be citing reasons that the Crusader U.S. Facists will use their powers to oppress the people!
He cannot help himself but to write in the style of Osama and Illegal Alien Terrorists!
Immigration Laws are the laws of the U.S.
Nothing you can do about it, but act like a terrorist!
TEE HEE
I never said I wanted them here asbestos. I said the amnesty idea was tried by you repugs and you obviously screwed it up (like everything else you do). Face it, you are running scared with NO PLAN. All you can do is make accusations.
Then answer the damn question, DO YOU WANT ILLEGAL ALIENS HERE OR NOT?
YESORNO?
FW…. YOU are the operation rescue terrorist, not I.
Waiting on your answer YES or NO? “What’s it gonna be big boy?”
Oh yea the illegals who receive amnesty are certainly the enlightened one’s when it comes to politics in America.I don’t see it happening. Amnesty is the easy way out. It didn’t work 20+ years ago and it won’t work now. Why not just open the border then and save all the money on border patrol and the fence? Stupid.Oh and I think dems do usually get a first generation vote, but if you understand the Hispanic (mostly Mexican) people they do have very conservative values. By the second they won’t be Democrats.
DO YOU WANT ILLEGAL ALIENS HERE OR NOT?
YESORNO?
Asbestos, it’s really not a clear cut “yes or no” answer. They are here, 12 million+ of them. Realistically, can you say there is a viable plan to deport 12 million people back to their country of origin safely and humanely? What is your plan for the businesses who rightly or wrongly utilize these workers. You right-wingers work from the “truthiness” viewpoint. Try thinking for a change.
KIA,
Stop with the MYTH about so-called hispanic family “values”! It’s total b.s. and you shouldn’t be trying to sell it.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YzkxMDk1MTQ3Yzg2MzdjZDA0NmFkODhiOWI1NjhjNjE
viva La Raza Blanco!!
“Realistically, can you say there is a viable plan to deport 12 million people back to their country of origin safely and humanely?”
Yes it is called attrition. You just wait and catch them. You cannot “round them up” andy more than you can “process applications” and “process fines” or “process backtaxes”. All of those are pipe dreams and are not viable. HOwever ATTRITION is viable.
“What is your plan for the businesses who rightly or wrongly utilize these workers.”
It is WRONGLY utilize these workers, it it ILLEGAL. And id is being done. The Swift roundup, and the EpCO roundup, and lots of little roundups of illegals one at at time. Fine them just like the did the dunces building the fence.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Try answering a direct question for a change.
DO YOU WANT ILLEGAL ALIENS HERE OR NOT?
YESORNO?
The total population of illegals may be as high as 22 million. SO<
DO YOU WANT ILLEGAL ALIENS HERE OR NOT?
YESORNO?
Making things a bit personal aren’t you asbestos? The universe is not black and white. Shades of grey affect a logical mind. There is no simple yes or no.
Blaid…you need to grow up and recognize that not every Democrat in the world is a saint, and that not every thing a Republican does is pure evil. There are good and bad in both.
When you get a little more mature, you will see that.
You know what Ian I’m in an area where I can see it with my own two eyes, I don’t need some political propaganda to tell me my views.The Hispanic population has it’s, for lack of a better term, “dregs” like any other. No more prevalent than poor white trash is to the white race in my opinion.
KIA,
Did you ever wonder why these non-White “latinos” can’t create a single, decent society in latin America. These people destroy everything they touch and letting them in to this nation is akin to poisoning our food and water supply.
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!
raptor……I am plenty “grown up”. I can see the agenda of the republican party. I also know that every member of the Democratic party isn’t a saint. What I have learned in my 47 years is that the Democratic Party definitely looks out for the interests of ALL people a hell of a lot better that your party does. This nation is supposed to be “by the people, for the people”.
“Making things a bit personal aren’t you asbestos? The universe is not black and white. Shades of grey affect a logical mind. There is no simple yes or no.” Posted by: Blaidd Drwg | December 23, 2006 at 10:13 AM
The terrorist Blaidd cannot commit to a single answer because he wants chaos to prevail like a true terrorist!
TEE HEE
From the “hispanic business blog”:
http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9148
This is what is getting in.
some quotes form illegal alien supporters:
“The examples in the article are probably extreme cases. Age of consent in Mexico is 12. Most illegals probably don’t realize the law is different in the U.S. So, it’s not really fair to assume that they’re “sex offenders”.”
WHAT?
http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8909
How about their take on the Swift raids:
“Employers of illegals and illegal employees almost always pay taxes. Most employers have no idea which employees are illegal. Sure, they assume some or most are, but they don’t know which. Illegals are usually hired legally.”
How is that for circular logic?
How about something from the Bible:
“How does God view illegal immigration?
Question: “How does God view illegal immigration?”
Answer: Romans 13:1-7 makes it abundantly clear that God expects us to obey the laws of the government. The ONLY exception to this is when a law of the government forces you to disobey a command of God (Acts 5:29). Illegal immigration is the breaking of a governmental law. There is nothing in Scripture that would contradict with obeying immigration laws. Therefore, it is a sin, rebellion against God, to illegally immigrate into another country. Romans 13:1-7 also gives the government the authority to punish lawbreakers, whether it be by deportation or imprisonment (in the cases of illegal immigration), or more severe penalties for greater crimes.”
Something about how latinos do not support AtzlaN MYTH:
http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9183
“This nation is supposed to be “by the people, for the people”. Posted by: Blaidd Drwg | December 23, 2006 at 10:23 AM
Terrorist Blaidd! Our people! Not some other country’s people!
Democratic Party definitely looks out for the interests of ALL people
Perhaps American’s should be first on that list.You forget oh wise one that in the Amnesty decision you speak of under Reagan, the Democrats controlled the Congress.Also, I don’t need to Government telling me what’s best for me. But thanks for the concern.
Glad to know you are not still in high school…was beginning to wonder with your comments of republican plots in other places.
Now that you have invoked the Gettysburg address, let us remember the words a little more accurately, shall we?
That this GOVERNMENT (not nation) of the people, by the people, and for the people shall not perish from the earth.
Written by a Republican…
DO YOU WANT ILLEGAL ALIENS HERE OR NOT?
YESORNO?
GOOD CATCH!!! KIA!
“Democratic Party definitely looks out for the interests of ALL people …”
Perhaps American’s should be first on that list.
Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate–we can not consecrate–we can not hallow–this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us–that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion–that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain–that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom–and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
The Republican party of Lincoln is not the republican party of today. Anyone with an onuce of sense knows that. Hell, Richard Nixon would never have gotten the republican nomination for president in 2000 or 2004, he would be too far to the left for you lot.
By the way…………the GOVERNMENT is what this nation is all about.
And the Democratic is not the one of FDR or even JFK.
About the Government, Yes but in this way: Limited. The lack of it’s interference in citizens lives.
So the relevant issues are:
“a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.”
A NATION, not a consortium, not an “allignment with MExico and latin America, and Canada, BUT A NATION!
Second:
“It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us–that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion–that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain–that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom–and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”
It is OUR responsibility to HONOR those that FELL for this NATION, to keep it as it was, IS and SHALL ALWAYS BE, a NATION for liberty.
That can only happen with adherance to laws. Why does MExico and the Latin American Countries have such a problem with human rights, liberty, equality? Their law system is corrupt! They cannot enforce and carry out the laws.
See where are going yet.
Adherance to the Law is precisely what guarntees liberty. To “let it slide” for illegal aliens is not “Due Process”!
To enforce ID theft on American Citizens and NOT on illegal aliens is not equal treatment and not equal application of the law and is a violation of the Due process and equal protection clauses.
So there.
Stick that in your understanding of the Consitiution and smoke it or turn on it.
So long for awhile all of you repug racists. It’s all about them being from the south. It’s doubtful if you’d be this phobic about English speakers come across our northern border. Let your hatred fester, blame everything on the Democratic Party. Just remember, your bunch of bozos have controlled the government for just a few years and look at the mess you’ve made.
Off to do some productive things. So long you repug suckers!
Interference? Do you mean like a woman’s right to privacy when it comes to having or not having an abortion Mr. KIA?
From Blaidd dwrg:
“By the way…………the GOVERNMENT is what this nation is all about.”
NO not even close Blaidd dwrg, not even close. Out NATION is not abpout Government, it is about INDIVIDUAL LIBERTIES. The Government is NOT granted powers, it is granted BY the Republic.
You don’t know very much about constitutional issues do you? Well I obviously know more than what you have shown here, and that is why I am a CONSERVTIVE. Which the Republicans have not been in about 10 years or so.
Amazing…Blaid is the one slinging insults about political parties, and in a parting “shot” turns the blame.
Short, or just very selective memory?
Asbestos………you are full of shit, that’s for sure.
I’m not a republican, BD, you sub-moronic cretin!
You leftist traitors would just as soon dwell in a third world pesthole as long as your side was in power. Pandering to useless thirdworlders for cheap votes is just as bad as using them for cheap, union busting labor.
V.L.R.B!!
Blaidd drwg, You sir are Anti-American and anti white, you hate white Americans and all American Citizens. You want to see American Citizens as Second class.
You are also stupid and clueless on the constitution.
“Asbestos………you are full of shit, that’s for sure”
Coming from you that is a compliment.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/16290726.htm
“Asbestos………you are full of shit, that’s for sure.” Posted by: Blaidd Drwg | December 23, 2006 at 10:41 AM
Blaidd has come to declare war with his THOUGHT BOMBS!
Unfortunately he has run out of ammunition!
TEE HEE
It was a big waste of resources, going to all those states t get a thousand illegals, when they could have went to western kansas with a few agents and rounded up that many easilly.
raptor,
There is no “this” in the line you both posted from the Gettysburg Address.
“…and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”
I guess you’re both wrong. ;)
Got me, RD..the ‘this’ preceeds “nation”, not government.
Oh well..I do strive to be perfect…but, alas, it ain’t happening.
If Rhonda Holman promises to take over my tax bill, then I agree wholeheartedly with her. She must also back the death penalty for any crime committed by an illegal immigrant.
The other day, alot of hispanic groups akined the raid to the SS rounding up the jews pre-WWII. So I guess what the police do against other law breakers during a shift is the same as the SS as well.I call for the immediate cessation of the police. To prevent criminals from feeling persecuted, the WPD should consider mailing notices to the criminals.
Dear Gang Member,We know you committed a crime on such an such date. Would you please kindly report to your local police department substation and turn yourself in. If we have to come looking for you then that might upset you and hurt your feelings. If you happen to be black, we don’t want to make you feel bad, or give you flashbacks to when your ancestors might have been rounded up prior to being put on the ship 300 years ago. If you’d be so kind, it would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely,WPDP.S. We have a very nice prison waiting. 3 hot meals a day, a bed, clean linen, excercise equipment, cable television all non-smoking rooms, free health and dental care, free education. WON’T YOU JOIN US!
ILLEGAL MEANS ILLEGAL
3 illegal immigration myths busted:
Myth #1) There’s no way to get rid of the 8-12 million illegal aliens who are already here so we might as well give them some sort of legal status: What a load of tommyrot that is. Getting rid of the majority of illegal aliens who are already here is actually fairly EASY.
Now, why do I say that? Because the illegals aren’t coming here to see the Grand Canyon or because they like the climate, most of them want to get WORK. So, if we get serious about enforcing the law, lay down a few massive fines or better yet, put a few flagrant violators who knowingly hire large numbers of illegals in jail, and that’s all it’ll take to get the rest of the business owners in line. If you crack down on the people who are employing the illegals, the jobs will dry up, and most illegal aliens will self-deport. That’s just common sense.
Myth #2) If we actually got rid of the illegal aliens who are here, the economy would take a major hit: I don’t buy that for a second. First off, while illegals make up 3-4% of the work force, the unemployment rate is currently 5.7%. So for every job currently held by an illegal alien, there is an out of work American who can fill it. Now some people will tell you that Americans “won’t do those jobs,” or that rising wages in those positions would cause huge price increases, but as Mark Krikorian points out…
“If the supply of foreign workers were to dry up (say, through actually enforcing the immigration law, for starters), employers would respond to this new, tighter, labor market in two ways. One, they would offer higher wages, increased benefits, and improved working conditions, so as to recruit and retain people from the remaining pool of workers. At the same time, the same employers would look for ways to eliminate some of the jobs they now are having trouble filling. The result would be a new equilibrium, with blue-collar workers making somewhat better money, but each one of those workers being more productive.
Many people fear the first part of such a response, claiming that prices for fruits and vegetables would skyrocket, fueling inflation. But since all unskilled labor — from Americans and foreigners, in all industries — accounts for such a small part of our economy, perhaps four percent of GDP, we can tighten the labor market without any fear of sparking meaningful inflation. Agricultural economist Philip Martin has pointed out that labor accounts for only about ten percent of the retail price of a head of lettuce, for instance, so even doubling the wages of pickers would have little noticeable effect on consumers.”
Even if you didn’t buy into what Krikorian is saying despite the fact that it’s little more than economics 101 in action, we could always implement the “guest worker program” in Bush’s reform and bring workers in legally. One way or the other, we can fill those positions.
On top of that, you have to consider how much money we spend dealing with crimes committed by illegals, educating kids who shouldn’t be in America to begin with, health care bills for non-citizens, and government assistance that goes to a staggering 25% of all illegal aliens.
In any case, claiming that cracking down on illegals would hurt the economy just doesn’t hold water.
Myth #3) Our borders are just too vast to be properly guarded so there’s no way we can stop illegals from pouring in. Oh please, how can anyone believe this? As Tom Tancredo pointed out in my interview with him,
“The marines did a little (exercise) just North of Idaho. One Hundred marines with three drones and two radar stations controlled 100 miles of the most rugged border you ever saw in your life. While I was there, just one week-end while I was there, they intercepted four people coming across on ATVs carrying four hundred pounds of drugs, we got a light plane trying to come in under the radar, and so it can happen. We can control our borders, we just choose not too.”
Folks, If we allot the proper amount of manpower to the job, put fences & watchtowers in certain spots, set-up radar stations, use predators, and aggressively enforce our laws, we can reduce the number of people sneaking across our borders from a flood to a trickle at worst.
Heck, if we were to implement some other common sense legal reforms like cracking down on employers who hire illegals, tossing “coyotes” who bring illegals across the border in jail for a decade or so, and making anyone caught trying to sneak across the border permanently ineligible to get a guest worker pass or to become a US citizen, we’d discourage most people from even trying to enter the country illegally in the first place. As an added bonus, we’d make life immeasurably harder for terrorists and drug runners in the process.
So don’t let anyone snow you, we have the means to effectively deal with illegal immigration — we just don’t have the will.
Could have been a terrorist amoung these illegals in meat packing plants looking to contaminate our food supply.
If all the illegal immigrants were gone tomorrow, yes the prices of some things would go up. But my taxes would (or should, haven’t seen a politian yet who didn’t think that a current tax in place should never go away) drop dramatically. Imagine the drop in school crowding. The drop in prison population. The drop in number of persons seeking free medical.
In this age of terrorism, if you had told me Sept 12, 2001 that on Sept 12, 2006 the borders of this country were going to be as open as they were Sept 11,2001 I’d have called you crazy.
Democrats love illegals, because to them its a whole new voting base for them to secure political power forever.
Especially Hispanics coming from Leftist Rule in Mexico for almost 80 years, until Vicente Fox got elected (who by the way speaks better english than President Bush), which totally devistated that country ecnomically and socially.
If you want leftism to rule America, look at Mexico, because that is exactly what we will become if you let the angry power hungry Leftist control our government.
I still can’t figure out what Holman doesn’t understand about the word “illegal.” It’s funny too that she’s upset over the fact that the Government is finally DOING SOMETHING about this problem.
I say get rid of as many illegal aliens as we can catch, then militarize and seal our southern border. A fence is not necessary.
Seed the border, on our side, with land mines. If Mexico doesn’t like it, they can either assist in securing the border or they can go to hell.
Are those Santa’s sleigh bells I hear?
Nope to early.
It must be the dingaling Joe Williams bell!
By the way Joe? You failed my challenge to post sans the “leftist” word.
Mexico is leftist? Uh no. Mexico is a look ahead at where the United States is headed. In Mexico those with money accumulate more and more of it and use their power to perpetuate a virtual feudal caste society.
On and Joe? Illegals cannot vote.
No to find the source of the illegal problem, you need look no further than greedy exploitive employers.
Well with the politicians we can start with one of our own Rebubilicans The Dishonorable Sam Brownback. Here he is from a WE article
“Brownback also touched on border security, saying immigration and Social Security agencies should work together so businesses can simply check to see whether potential employees are legal. The federal government eventually needs to accept more legal immigrants, he said.”
The only people that love illegal immigrants are those employers wanting to exploit them for cheap labor (be they Democrat or Republicans).
I believe these people should be treated humanely but that does not mean that we taxpayers have to give them subsidized housing, food stamps, vision cards, free health care to mention a few. These are benefits we do not give every American citizen so why do we feel we need to give illegals more than we give our own citizens?
Illegal immigrants need to caught and sent back to their original country. If it is proven that person has falsified documents to work, then that illegal gets sent back FIRST with a brand on them, so when they cross again – they will be detected.
The taxpayers are tired of paying for these illegal immigrants. But this notion that Democrats love illegals is really laughable. Because most of these offending corporations that Republicans just love their bribes, I mean donations, are in the wrong for knowinly hiring illegals.
“Illegals cannot vote.”
We covered this one alredy JR, illegals can’t vote in NATIONAL PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS. They are however voting and voting legally in some states.
So quit lying there JR. You want the illegal aliens YOU TAKE CARE of them and YOU PAY for them.
I think JR if youlook at the myths that I posted it addresses the going after of the employers,
Just like the title of this thread: “Immigration raids a questionable use of resources”
Obviously not it is sending a message to those expolitavie employers and illegal employers is “We are coming after you and it will hit you in the pocket book.”
So we are doing that ENFORCING EXISTING IMMIGRATION LAW.
I think an implanted mirco chip and an ear tag would be good for those deported!
jr even denies what he writes!
another blog he was unusually obcessed with BTK maturbation at only one crime scene!
It was authored by JBIRDKS. Examine his email!
jr is a terrorist blogger!
confused even by his own writings!
ASBESTOS?
Get a clue. I don’t want the illegals here. I advocate all the time for total deportation.
Don’t feed the trolls.
raptor, not picking on you, personally. We (that includes me) need to remember to check quotes before quoting them, otherwise we give false info. I know MY memory isn’t that good after memorizing the GA in 5th grade. (A couple of years ago, obviously.)
FW,
You are confused by your own mind.
Does anybody remember that during WW2 the Nazis were trying to organize with Mexico to invade the U.S. from the south using the Mexican army?Sure things change since those days but there still is a belief system in Mexico and in South America that are against the American way of life and the laws of the land that we have.Do the ones that sympathize with the illegal immigrants understand that they are inviting more then just simply people looking for a better life?These inviters are also inviting a system of corruption that a lot of immigrants are escaping from but at the same time it is their own ignorant way of dealing with things that there is corruption.You can sympathize all you want to but are you ready to handle the consequences of all the corruption that is presently occurring?As single individuals we will all be victims, united we will have peace and prosperity but the cost of liberty has a high price and that price is called “CONTROL”.
You sir, are indeed a very, very, very WISEMAN.
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Most Americans don’t believe the raids were a waste of resources.
U want to know what really pisses me off about immigration?
Its when im standing at McDonald’s last week and NOT A SINGLE PERSON BEHIND THE COUNTER SPOKE ENGLISH TO ANYONE ELSE BEHIND THE COUNTER. NOT EVEN THE BLACK MANAGER! Everyone spoke Spanish!
The same thing happened when i was in the elevator with my buildings cleaning crew.
The same thing happened when i went to WalMart.
Im sick and flipping tired of these people coming to this country and they CANT SPEAK ENGLISH. I dont give a shit if they are citizens or not. They live here, they should speak the lingo…
What most people miss is that these were union plants. I wonder if that had anything to do with it.
And of course there is one sure way to keep illegal immigrants out. Just make this country more misereable than the one they are leaving. We’re working on that.
ASBESTOS whined the other day that immigrants had taken away his high-paying job and that not he cannot make as much money. Of course he makes it personal.
I find it interesting that the darling of the Right, the Wall Street Journal, is the editorial against the raid. I suppose it should come as no surprise that they would oppose anything that might stand in the way of a corporation making a buck – no matter how. Rhona Holman did not write the words above that has so many people so upset – she just quoted the WSJ.
Perhaps the most troubling aspect to me is the use of false ID that belongs to others – idetity theft. Whoever is the responsible agency should be diligently going after THAT.
Obviously border control (sic) and imigration policy are broken. They need to be fixed. I don’t know if the “Bush plan” is the best approach or not but our government needs to get on top of all this.
Immigration will cease to be a problem for America after the year 2009.
What happens in 2009 Seer?
We really need a far more comprehensive solution to the problem here. I think that some form of amnesty short of citizenship is in order. Perhaps a “path to Permanent Residency” program. Citizenship should be soley reserved for people that came here legally. Then what we need is high fines and jail time for employers that hire anybody here illegally.
kev – intelligent comments. I think Bush and Brownback are trying to put something like that. The problem with such an approach is that BOTH sides will hate you. :(
“I think that some form of amnesty short of citizenship is in order. Perhaps a “path to Permanent Residency” program.”
You can’t do that any more than you could deport the whole bunch. IF ya can’t deport them all, you surely cannot “register” them and you surely cannot charge them fines. Believing that is believing a fairy tale.
The ONLY solution is TO CONTROL THE BORDER. Period, end of story.
Anything else is just not addressing the problem, which is OPEN POROUS borders.
I agree ASBESTOS, we need to find a way to control the borders. Then, as I think you commented above, ttrition can have an effect. Perhaps then also some sort of “amnesty” for those who come forward. Especially if they are, in fact, working rather than ‘welfaring’ or whatever.
Years ago I worked with a guy who had beenan illegal from Tobasco region. He told me about how he came to be here (Los Angeles) and what had happened to his home region due to PeMex. Fortunately for him he had been able to get ‘legal.’ (All of this had taken place before I started there).
The man I knew spoke English, owned a home, and paid taxes. IMO THAT is where we need to get to. I hope that what Bush, Brownback and others have in mind gives us a path to get there.
Well, well, who was it that suggested amnesty for illegal aliens?
Why, it was George W Bush!
Now, why would that be?
For his corporate friends?
Interesting.
Well said, Ben Huie, you should run for public office.
“I hope that what Bush, Brownback and others have in mind gives us a path to get there.”
I think you can abandon that hope, for on the LEFT and the RIGHT these people pushing for “anmesty” are doing it only for one thing .. expand the “voting base”. There is NO leadership currently in the congress or the White House, Dems or Republicans with a solution.
FIRST you secure the border, THEN you start talking about what to do with all the folks here. To not do it in that progression is only to encourange the continued additional illegal migrations. “Amnesty or guest worker firts” types need to be abused and embarassed for their short sightedness and lack of grasp of the situation.
PHASE one, secure the souther border. Hell, even Mexico sent 25,000 troops to THERI southern border to stop all the craziness coming into their country from the South and Central Banana republics.
“The man I knew spoke English, owned a home, and paid taxes. IMO THAT is where we need to get to. I hope that what Bush, Brownback and others have in mind gives us a path to get there.”
I would agree that kind of person we need in America, however that is the EXCEPTION rather than the rule. Just go south to Dallas and you will see. Remember that in Kansas we oonly have 74,000 illegals, in Texas they have about 1,000,000.
“The Wall Street Journal editorial board thinks not:”
The argument from authority, which proves nothing. An assertion stands or falls on its own, not by who makes it.
Good points ASBESTOS. The case I My thing would be to try to find a way to replicate that. And I agree, securing the borders should be step one.
Fiore – the important thing about the surce in this case is to place the arguements in the context of the source. In this case the source is right-wing. That would be quite different than the same arguements from a leftie source.
The funny thing here has been the number of posters decrying this as some sort of left-wing idea. The WSJ is hardly left.
Fiore – the important thing about the surce in this case is to place the arguements in the context of the source. In this case the source is right-wing. That would be quite different than the same arguements from a leftie source.
The funny thing here has been the number of posters decrying this as some sort of left-wing idea. The WSJ is hardly left.
I can tell you that it isn’t easy to determine if someone is illegal if they present identification that looks authentic. One of the places I worked had a number of hispanic employees. We did inquire about their SS numbers and were told they were not valid. SS would not tell us they were illegal or what we should do next. We brought them all together and confronted them about their legal status. We even volunteered to help them obtain legal status or whatever we could do. I have to say they were hard workers. They all just looked at us and got up and walked out.We had to replace them all.
Chain Gang… walk the filthy illegals all the way back to messico .. picking up trash. cutting the grass with a weed whip.. Now that is something I’m sure no American would want to do .
what? legal ! that would put the catholic church out of business.
The fact is that MOST of the people that are here illegally did not “sneak” in. They came here legally on visas and just never went back home. Soldiers and fences on the border will not stop that but making sure they are barred from paying employment will stop it. That is why most of them are here. So if we had a conditional amnesty program coupled with a tough law on employment and full verification of all worker’s legal status, we could lick this problem. What I would like to see myself is a program that would grant “conditional probationary residency” for 4 years and during that time the immigrant would be required to learn English, stay employed, pay any taxes owed and stay out of any trouble with the police. After that 4 years the immigrant would be granted Permanent Residency and could stay in the country for life. He however could never become a US Citizen or vote here as a price for being here illegally to begin with. And any employer caught hiring anybody here illegally would be fined- I would start at a half million dollars for the first offense and anymore offenses would result in seizure of the business and jailing of its officers.
Pretty good ideas Kev. I might allow citizenship eventually, perhaps after ‘paying a price’ – the things you mentioned and perhaps some sort of service – military or otherwise.
Being a good citizen is critical – language, work, taxes, keeping ’straight’, etc. I think you have good ideas on this.
I do think that most illegals come here for the same thing we all want, a better life. I have yet to have anyone show me how illegals prevent that from happening for me personally. Most of the Hispanics that I’ve had contact with are very hard working and work 2 and 3 jobs to get by. I think what truly is destroying our way of life is not illegals but big corporations outsourcing jobs to foreign countries and our sub-par education system that doesn’t prepare our kids for the real would.
“The fact is that MOST of the people that are here illegally did not “sneak” in.”
Absolutely FALSE. The Border Patrol estimates anywhere between 750,000 and 1,200,000 come in illegally a year from just the southern border. With an estimated 12,000,000 that has grown over 10 years, well the math shows that you have no clue what you are talking about. The numbers do not add up.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++”So if we had a conditional amnesty program coupled with a tough law on employment and full verification of all worker’s legal status, we could lick this problem.”
Supposed to happen now. These employers KNOW they are not to hire someone with a bad SSN, let alone like Swift, give them one. The employers don’t want to find out. They can easily by running the numbers to SS Admin. That is a no go. We already have a tough law. The border fence guys found that out, IFco found that out, and so did Swift.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
“What I would like to see myself is a program that would grant “conditional probationary residency” for 4 years and during that time the immigrant would be required to learn English, stay employed, pay any taxes owed and stay out of any trouble with the police.”
They already broke 4 laws: 1) illegal entry, 2) working without a visa, 3) using a false or fradulent SSN to gain employment, 4) fradulently or falsely acquiring a SSN or stealing someone’s SSN in Idnetity theft.
2 of those are felonies with the SSN thing.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“After that 4 years the immigrant would be granted Permanent Residency and could stay in the country for life.”
NEGATIVE, we do not give multiple law breakers residency OR citizenship! They started off “dirty” can’t get clean from crap. DEPORTATION is the penality on the books for entering this country illegally. MOST of the other countries have this too Japan as well as others. Most SHOOT you like China.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bad terrible ideas Kev, terrible.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Sorry Ben, but the Military Service members have a “path to citizenship” already.
I just do not think we can “reward” these folks in any way. It will just encourage more illegal immigration.
Why is that so hard to understand. And please do not start with the myths about the economy, price fo fruit, and difficulty in securing the borders, or deporting these folks.
BEFORE ANY consideration, SECURE THE BORDER, SECURE THE BORDER, SECURE THE BORDER!
Then we will not have to worry about the rest.
“myths about the economy” – I still find that it was the Wall Street Journal that ran the editorial that Holman referenced. And that so many people here thought it was she that wrote it and lambasted her for being a leftie.
This was the myth I was talking about, which the Wall Street Journal Doesn’t get either:
Myth #2) If we actually got rid of the illegal aliens who are here, the economy would take a major hit: I don’t buy that for a second. First off, while illegals make up 3-4% of the work force, the unemployment rate is currently 5.7%. So for every job currently held by an illegal alien, there is an out of work American who can fill it. Now some people will tell you that Americans “won’t do those jobs,” or that rising wages in those positions would cause huge price increases, but as Mark Krikorian points out…
“If the supply of foreign workers were to dry up (say, through actually enforcing the immigration law, for starters), employers would respond to this new, tighter, labor market in two ways. One, they would offer higher wages, increased benefits, and improved working conditions, so as to recruit and retain people from the remaining pool of workers. At the same time, the same employers would look for ways to eliminate some of the jobs they now are having trouble filling. The result would be a new equilibrium, with blue-collar workers making somewhat better money, but each one of those workers being more productive.
Many people fear the first part of such a response, claiming that prices for fruits and vegetables would skyrocket, fueling inflation. But since all unskilled labor — from Americans and foreigners, in all industries — accounts for such a small part of our economy, perhaps four percent of GDP, we can tighten the labor market without any fear of sparking meaningful inflation. Agricultural economist Philip Martin has pointed out that labor accounts for only about ten percent of the retail price of a head of lettuce, for instance, so even doubling the wages of pickers would have little noticeable effect on consumers.”
Even if you didn’t buy into what Krikorian is saying despite the fact that it’s little more than economics 101 in action, we could always implement the “guest worker program” in Bush’s reform and bring workers in legally. One way or the other, we can fill those positions.
On top of that, you have to consider how much money we spend dealing with crimes committed by illegals, educating kids who shouldn’t be in America to begin with, health care bills for non-citizens, and government assistance that goes to a staggering 25% of all illegal aliens.
In any case, claiming that cracking down on illegals would hurt the economy just doesn’t hold water.
There was an attempt to strengthen the laws and the punishment for employers KNOWINGLY hiring an illegal alien. But I do not know how that came out, I would suspect though that it basically went nowhere considering that big names companies depend on the illegal for their bottom line. An example: INS did a raid on the local Coke bottling plant and took over twenty five illegal from the second shift crew. (This happened over a decade ago BTW) The next morning a man went to apply for a job and was told that they were not hiring. When he pointed out the INS had taken twenty five of their employees away just last night.He was told, “Well if you are willing to work for a dollar twenty five an hour, we will hire you to!”.At the time the Federal requirement that an employer had to see proof of legal status, was a real joke.Some had on file pieces of paper that had “Green cards” done in crayon and of course to make it look official it was in Green crayon! The sad part was that the employer could not be punished as they had asked and received what the Feds required.
As to due process, all illegal aliens are given an administrative hearing which boils down to the simple process of if they can proof legal status to be in this country they can stay. Period! In fact this is such a speedy process that many are dropped at the boarder and back in the country within hours! Once enough are processed to fill the buses and driven back to the boarder. A INS agent once told me the story of having rode from the Northern U.S. to Brownsville Tx. on a bus picking up illegal aliens along the way that were being deported. Once he watched them walk across the boarder into Mexico he boarded a plane as he had to be back in Washington D.C. in the morning.
Flying commercial and being armed the fly crew knew he was an INS agent. He was approached an hour into the flight by a stewardess. They had a problem understanding two passenger flying in first class and wondered if he could translate for them. He agreed and walk into first class and immediate recognized the two as being on the bus and a part of the group he had just watched walk across the boarder!
It still bewilders me that the President of Mexico is so complacent and actually upset that the U.S. would strengthen it boarders against his people coming here. True that many send U.S. dollars back to Mexico to support relatives there. But to me it is the same logic as Boeing farming out work and agreeing to have work done in foreign countries they do business with. The time comes when there is no real stock in your company and no reason for anyone to do any business with you.
If my house is falling down I can not just force myself into my neighbor’s home. I either have to fix the house or build a new one. And I can not just run my neighbor out to do that either.
I’m confused by the news that some of the illegals were released to care for minor children. So, put the children in foster care until the parents are deported.
Gotta wonder how many of those released are on their way to new jobs elsewhere and under a new name.
“I’m confused by the news that some of the illegals were released to care for minor children. So, put the children in foster care until the parents are deported.”
Me too! Any other criminal committing crimes is not released for “humane reasons” either. That would let a lot of people out of prison and incarceration if we had to let them go because they are pregnant or have kids.
ANother example of how illegal immigratin waters down ALL our laws to ACCOMIDATE THEES FARQING ILLEGAL ALIENS!!! HOw is that NOT a violation of due process and REVERSE DISCRIMINATION???
People like Ms. Holman and the traitor scum at the WSJ are always enthralled with diversity, so long as they are safely ensconed in their all White gated communities.
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!
Oh shut up Ian, your comments aren’t even taken seriously.
“Gotta wonder how many of those released are on their way to new jobs elsewhere and under a new name.”
You can BET that is being watched and documented quite throughly. The “Catch and release” seems to still apply to criminal mothers and criminal mothers to be.
PMOM,
Please behave yourself and spare me your nonsensical hysterics!
V.L.R.B!!
If they are going to let these (and other yahoos go) they should at least make them wear ankle bracelets that American Citizen lawbreakers that are a flight risk have to wear.
How come the illegal alien screws also get a pass on this as well? No “equal rights” if you are an American Citizen????
“unskilled workers and pays them more than twice the minimum wage with full health benefits after six months.”
These guys were not paid double the minimum wages in these states, nor were most of them receiving full health benefits. That is a LIE there Wall Street Journal!
If this raid makes employers screen more carefully and think twice about hiring illegals to save a few bucks, it’s dollars well spent.
IanDid you mom drop you on your head when you were born or did you get your balls caught in a vise? How did you get to be so mean and nasty? Are you ashamed of your heritage? How could any thinking intelligent person think the holocaust did not happen? Just askin’.
I always thought it was both Brenda. :-)
Just saw this one; could it be the WSJ editorial board is more concerned with the size of the dividend to be received by the Swift stockholders as opposed to the real issues surrounding illegal immigration?