It’s unseemly how the national media have reported the bad news about Sen. Tim Johnson’s health — as a hurried opening line to a big political story. I understand that American history hangs in the balance and all. But surely the breathless “what if” debate about a 50-50 Senate (should the South Dakota Democrat be unable to complete his term and the GOP governor choose a GOP replacement) could have waited, out of respect to the senator and his family. And it’s really offensive to keep playing the radio interview during which he had strokelike symptoms.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- HLP on Open thread 11/8
- Hud on Open thread 11/8
- Boxlock20 on Open thread 11/8
- Regular on Everything really should be on the budget table
- Boxlock20 on Open thread 11/8
- Regular on Death penalty review promised
- Boxlock20 on Open thread 11/7
- Monkeyhawk on Open thread 11/8
- Cynical on Death penalty review promised
- Monkeyhawk on Open thread 11/8
186 Comments
This media coverage of his stroke is absolutely disgusting. Whatever closed door talks need to be held about the Senate, should NOT be covered in the media. I’m really sickened right now.
What can expect from the tabloid media culture we have these days? Hey, just how did that stingray pierce the dude’s heart? Let’s discuss it again and again and again.
It should have been covered and,yes, including the political angle, but there’s a difference between getting the story and exploiting it.
Exploit it? That’s funny, cause this is the first time I heard this story all day.
The national media is disgusting. The poor man is in the hospital in intensive care and they already have him dead in his grave. What passes for news these days is not news at all. Bring in the so called “experts” and ask them what they think. This is news? Show a little respect for him and his family. Oh that’s right, the national media has no dignity. And they wonder why their ratings are going down.
There’s nothing wrong with the national media. The people have a right to know! Ever hear of freedom of the press?
sheesh!
May he get well soon. God speed.
Don’t worry Dems, he’ll be ok!
I’m glad to see that he appears to be recovering. Looks like the wishes of at least one poster on the “right” will not be fulfilled.
hmmmmm..
I re-read all the posts, and I can’t see where anyone on the “right” wished anything bad to happen to the Senator. What exactly were you referring to?
National media? They are just reporting a story. It is the typical villians in right wing radio that are salivating for Senator Johnson to die.
No less that that gasbag pig Rush Limbaugh was commenting that “Oh they could not wait to kill Terry Shiavo, but just just you watch! Harry Reid will have this guy on a ventilator for the next 2 years!
Disgusting. But predictable from a “man” who makes fun of Parkinsons disease.
It is quite likely Johnson will recover fully.
Check out yesterday’s thread on Pat Roberts:
Senator Johnson’s illness is a true tragedy (for the Dems).WE’RE BACK IN THE SENATE, BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Posted by: fleettwood | December 14, 2006 at 03:46 PM
That sentiment was commented on further in that thread; he subsequently seems to have ‘changed position’I know, Vaughn. It is times like this that I wish I was religious. I don’t know who to pray to.Posted by: fleettwood | December 14, 2006 at 03:55 PM
Unless, of course, that was a troll.
I’m not a big fan of Rush Limbaugh, but there is truth in what you quoted him as saying. You guys would put a respirator and feeding tube for two years.
What’s funny is Harry Ried has ignored Tim Johnson for all of his political career, but all of a sudden he’s Harry’s best friend now? I bet.
As we speak there is probably jumbo jets full of Democrat lawyers raining in of South Dakota.
For you Dem! The control of the Senate is more important than Tim Johnson! That I know is fact! The reason I know that is because none, and I mean none if you even knew or even heard of his name before this incident happen. He was a nobody to you! But he suddenly important now!
Just wish the man a speedy recovery. He’ll be back in no time. So don’t sweat bullets!
JR is obviously not bright enought to recognize sarcasm. I was listening to Rush yesterday (as always) and that statement was made after a long commentary wishing Johnson a speedy recovery and a commitment to keeping him in his prayers.
Oh yeah, JR – you don’t believe in God, so I can understand why you didn’t follow the part about prayers.
I stand by everything I have written. No troll, except for the tweezers and magnifying glass comment. I didn’t write that.May Sen. Johnson recover quickly.
Joe Williams! I had heard his name before this week. And, I doubt very seriously there is a jumbo jet full of lawyers raining on SD.
On what basis do you make your claim that Reid had ignored him throughout his career?
It’s obvious very few of you actually know anything about stroke victims. It sounds like they caught the AVM quickly and operated. Recovery could be a minimal time period and the man can fully recover.
But to say Rush Limbaugh is caring about anyone but himself is really laughable. And this phoney God speed crap line is really just too hilarious.
Republicans have shown their compassionate conservative side and that is exactly why the GOP lost the election. If you don’t like the image of cold hearted, greedy, self-absorbed and self-righteous hypocrits that the GOP has achieved, then do something about your party. Get the GOP away from the Religious Right or you will lose more than the past election.
Sunny,I’m surprised to know that you’re a Rush listener.
And, you were listening yesterday when he was talking about this?
Rush caring? Sorry guys, having watched him do his “dance” for Michael Fox makes it clear that he is filled with hate toward anyong he disagrees with.
I never claimed to be a Rush listener or fan. But remember the old saying, hold your friends closer but your enemies closer?
To know what the other side is doing and saying, it is best to see for yourself. Besides, I just love to see how Rush always manages to keep the wool pulled over the sheeple’s eyes and take in his millions of dollars every year. Who is the bigger fool? Me listening to see what stupid thing he will say next or the true Rush actually believing what this big bag of wind says?
For just one day, today, in this matter, let’s forget the fucking political wrangling, and all take the moment to pray (or whatever you wish to call whatever it is you do … hope, maybe) for a complete and speedy recovery for Senator Tim Johnson and for the strength and support his family, as any family, must have in situations like this.
A good thought rm.
The big question is, does Rush believe what he, himself, says?
I doubt it. It all comes down to $$.
So, Sunny,Not to call you a liar or anything – but, since you have said that you were listening yesterday…
Rush had to leave the studio a few times yesterday for something – what was it?
Rush cares alot about finding pain killers and viagra.
To meet his dealer?
I wish him a full recovery. I hope that he will not return to office unless he is at least 85% “back”
The governor should acknowledge that his people put a democrat in the senate; he should replace Johnson with and equally left replacement.
Sunny? Sunny?
Earth to Sunny…
People! Get a grip! This was news, and it was big news. Important news for the political arena. It’s not exploititive.
If anything, and maybe none of you thought of this- but maybe it will help people to realize the signs of stroke, because this was it folks. Stroke is a major killer, and they’re right the symptoms are EXACTLY the same.
So now if you hear someone slurring their speech or stuttering, instead of thinking drunk like most of you would- what will you think now?
And Rush gives a spit about nobody but himself and the ones like him.So I find his comments disingeuous. But hey, at least this time he didn’t start mocking him.
I’m not a Rush fan.However it is just as disingenous for Dems to think evil of anything that comes out of the Rights mouth as it is for us on the Left.
Rash had to leave the studio several times PROBABLY to get sick. Since he had been “up late last night consuming adult beverages.” with his oxycontin.
I monitor the jerk for the same reasons as sunny.
PeeMom is just flat wrong. Again.
I listen to Rush every day. He was very caring and compassionate in his opening monologue about the need for prayers for Johnson.
His comment about life-support was a dig at Harry Reid, not Tim Johnson. Rush spent a good part of his show wishing Johnson a full and speedy recovery. I HEARD IT.
Sheesh.
Oh come on people. Do you really think Republicans would exploit a tradegy for political gain? Thats the MO of the Dems. Does anybody remember the Paul Wellstone memorial or the Coretta Scott King Memorial, both of which turned into political rallies and “hate Bush” festivals? Or what about the Carnahan tradegy where his grieving widow was used just so the Dems could win a Senate seat? And I’m sure if you go to any of the far left websites their microscopic brains are cranking out story after story of how Senator Johnson didn’t really have a stroke but was poisoned or otherwise incapaciatated by Republican operatives, probably using alien technology from Area 51. You know, we can fight it out on any subject on any day here, but how about we just put down our swords for one day and wish Senator Johnson a full and speedy recovery.
And, as further proof.
I will download yesterday’s show and email it to anyone that wishes to hear it.
Whoa…alien technology from Area 51…
More Star Trek segues…
I’m with the other posters hoping for the recovery of Senator Johnson.God speed.
“I’m sure if you go to any of the far left websites their microscopic brains are cranking out story after story of how Senator Johnson didn’t really have a stroke but was poisoned or otherwise incapaciatated by Republican operatives, probably using alien technology from Area 51.”
Sure, Chris. In you hallucinations. Show us some.
Hope he makes a full recovery, tragic circumstances…
Man oh man Chris is out there huh. Chris, you should have heard all the crap we Dems got during Reagan’s funeral.
I went out of my way to be respectful, called for all people to just be americans and grieve for him. And all I heard that whole day was crap from the republicons. So give it up.
Mrs. King was a civil rights activist who fought her whole life for everything the republicons fought against, there wasn’t a more fitting TIME for her to be remembered for those works.
I join in wishing Sen. Johnson a full and speedy recovery as well.
However, IIRC, Sen. Johnson did not have a “stroke” in the commonly defined meaning of the term; rather, he suffered intracranial bleeding as the result of a congenital condition, the acronnymn for which I don’t recall, due to which the blood from the arteries was not being fully diffused through the capillaries into his brain tissue, but instead flowed directly into the veins, resulting in increased pressure therein, which resulted in the bleeding.
And which was the party of the “Solid South”?
The GOP disingenuousness is thick and, well, stinky. in here. Time for an icy hot blast of…
THE RUDE PUNDIT!!!!!!!!!
(Warning: Rude content follows)
**********************************12/14/2006
Tim Johnson: He’s Gotta Serve Even If He’s Just a Marionette:
“Towards the horrible end of his too-long life, Republicans made sure that the decaying corpse-that-rolled Strom Thurmond could still serve out his term so that the Democratic governor of South Carolina would not be able to name a replacement for him. While everyone around him, including the Republican leadership, lied about his ability to put together a thought that was more cogent than, “Ngah, pudding,” Thurmond himself was merely an empty vessel shitting out his innards into a nauseatingly full diaper. That didn’t matter to the GOP, clinging to a seat that would have to be re-upholstered every week because of the acidic urine stains.
God, the awful, nearly medieval ways they made it seem like Thurmond was anything more than a pile of cells that desperately wanted to die. They used metal rods to keep his spine straight so he wouldn’t slump over in his wheelchair. They used epoxy and polyurethane to prevent his skin from drooping off his skull. They inserted small, hinged, electronically-controlled metal arms into his mouth so that he could smile or grimace at appropriate times, and also to make it look like his lips were moving in sync with words, sounds that were actually pleas to allow him to taste sweet death. But Karl Rove wasn’t gonna let him die. As long as he could still shriek in pain when it was time to vote “Aye” or “Nay,” with Trent Lott interpreting what the gurgling cries actually meant, then Strom Thurmond was gonna fuckin’ show up in the Senate to do the bidding of the Republicans.
So, yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah, hearts go out to Democratic Senator Tim Johnson of South Dakota for needing surgery for a brain hemorrhage and to his family and with the hope that he recovers, yadda, yadda. But right now you can bet that legions of lawyers are getting ready to go to war over what seems to be a clusterfuck of statutes over what happens in SD should Johnson go turnip. While it’s possible that there may need to be an election called in 10 days or 80 or 90 days, more than likely Republican Governor Mike Rounds would just get to appoint someone to finish out Johnson’s term until 2008. And there goes the Senate, back to a tie, with the smirking visage of Dick Cheney tiebreaking.
Democrats better be ready to go at South Dakota with all the eviscerating force of a school of pirahna on a cow’s stomach. Because while the right is, for the most part, keeping its powder dry on this one, offering mucho prayers and hopes for recovery, you can imagine that behind the scenes there’s an attack plan being drafted to wreck any attempt to sideline an appointment by Rounds. But, considering his lack of subtlety, there’s also a good chance that Rove’ll waddle over to George Washington University Hospital to take out Johnson himself, and thus be called a “genius” once again.
The alternative for Democrats, of course, is that no goddamn matter how much Tim Johnson’s brain has turned to mush, the Democrats pull a Strom Thurmond and wheel that drooling rutabaga-man out onto the Senate floor. Attach strings to him, making him fuckin’ do interpretive dance to debate bills, cattle-prod him whenever it’s time for a vote. Any fuckin’ thing to hold onto the majority, which is, in fact, let’s face it, and you know it, more important than Tim Johnson and his family.”
rudepundit.blogspot.com
Hey B.H. Why don’t you try Democrat Underground or Firedoglake or Slate.com. I would, but I just ate.
From demo-underground:
“WP: Experts Optimistic About Senator Johnson’s RecoveryExperts Optimistic About Senator’s RecoveryBy David BrownWashington Post Staff WriterFriday, December 15, 2006; Page A04
The experience of other people who have suffered bleeding from arteriovenous malformations inside the brain suggests that Sen. Tim Johnson (D-S.D.), who underwent emergency surgery for that condition Wednesday night, has at least a 50-50 chance of full recovery.
The 59-year-old senator may need another operation or other procedure to completely defuse the abnormal tangle of blood vessels inside his head that he was born with. But statistics suggest that his chance of suffering another bleeding episode in the near future is less than 10 percent and that his brain function is likely to improve from now on.
“I think his prognosis for recovery is very good,” said Laligam Sekhar, a neurosurgeon at Harborview Medical Center in Seattle and former chairman of neurosurgery at George Washington Medical Center, where Johnson was treated. “Any disability now is going to depend on where the malformation was and what his condition was going into surgery.”
Johnson’s physicians provided no details on his condition. But the senator’s office said he responded to his wife’s voice and held her hand, and the Capitol physician, John Eisold, said he is “appropriately responsive to both word and touch” — suggesting that he is conscious and may be able to communicate.
Many people harbor arteriovenous malformations (AVMs) unknowingly for decades. When they bleed, 10 to 15 percent of patients die within hours, 35 percent suffer permanent disability and about 50 percent recover more or less completely. The prevalence of AVMs is not known with precision, though one estimate is that about one-half of 1 percent of people have them.”
Well, Chris, nothing about poisons or aliens or Area 51.
Just because Rush said some nice things about Sen Tim Johnson does not mean that Rush was sincere. Even the Devil says nice things when he wants something from you.
Geez, people, wake up and think for yourselves!
sunny,
How dare you puncture the happy talk balloon! It’s so ‘uncivil’ of you! People like you are so ‘hateful’!
VT, the signs and symptoms are the exact same as AVM. And sometimes aneurism.
Judging by his name-dropping (”Democrat(ic) Underground or Firedoglake”) I’m guessing C.F.M.T. is one of those Wingnuts who lives to troll. Icky.
FYI, DemocraticUnderground has a ban on any posts discussing conspiracy about Johnson’s illness.
But the right-wing really shouldn’t be too hard on liberals who mistakenly (note the word “mistakenly”) believe that this is just a little too convenient for the Republicans.
After BushCo (and its handpicked minions on the Supreme Court) told democracy to go to hell in the election of 2000, after re-distributing wealth UPWARDS with Bush labor and tax policies, and lying us into war in Iraq to enrich their oil cronies, it’s not at all clear at what viciously immoral behavior Bush is not capable of.
Sunny, since you dodged the question – a very simple question had you been telling the truth…
And speaking of re-distributing wealth upwards, here’s a Paul Krugman (Princeton U economist) article that lays it all out.
Nov. 30 “Rolling Stone”:
In a recent poll, only a minority of Americans rated the economy as “excellent” or “good,” while most consider it no better than “fair” or “poor.”
Are people just ungrateful? Is the administration failing to get its message out? Are the news media, as conservatives darkly suggest, deliberately failing to report the good news?
None of the above. The reason most Americans think the economy is fair to poor is simple: For most Americans, it really is fair to poor. Wages have failed to keep up with rising prices. Even in 2005, a year in which the economy grew quite fast, the income of most non-elderly families lagged behind inflation. The number of Americans in poverty has risen even in the face of an official economic recovery, as has the number of Americans without health insurance. Most Americans are little, if any, better off than they were last year and definitely worse off than they were in 2000.
But how is this possible? The economic pie is getting bigger — how can it be true that most Americans are getting smaller slices? The answer, of course, is that a few people are getting much, much bigger slices. Although wages have stagnated since Bush took office, corporate profits have doubled. The gap between the nation’s CEOs and average workers is now ten times greater than it was a generation ago. And while Bush’s tax cuts shaved only a few hundred dollars off the tax bills of most Americans, they saved the richest one percent more than $44,000 on average. In fact, once all of Bush’s tax cuts take effect, it is estimated that those with incomes of more than $200,000 a year — the richest five percent of the population — will pocket almost half of the money. Those who make less than $75,000 a year — eighty percent of America — will receive barely a quarter of the cuts. In the Bush era, economic inequality is on the rise.
Rising inequality isn’t new. The gap between rich and poor started growing before Ronald Reagan took office, and it continued to widen through the Clinton years. But what is happening under Bush is something entirely unprecedented: For the first time in our history, so much growth is being siphoned off to a small, wealthy minority that most Americans are failing to gain ground even during a time of economic growth — and they know it.
*****
The upper-middle class Republicans that post all this gung-ho sh*t about Bush? They’re the willing idiots that cut their own throats and the throats of their children because they so want to believe that they’re part of the elite.
They’re not.
The real elite that benefit from Bush’s policies could buy and sell Fleettwood and GolfNut and Hank Price and all the rest of them, and say, “what happened to part of the petty cash for this month?”
Golfnut-when you answer questions directed at you – I will answer yours. Until then, keep posting.
Cap,If you look at my posts, I’ve said countless times that I don’t consider myself rich at all. In fact, I said that the income threshold for “rich” is probably in the 300k-400k range.
You said 100k (or maybe it was JR – you simpletons all look the same to me). So, by YOUR standards, hell…I’M RICH!
Bush is only interested in the few global corporate players in the world and these are the wealthy ones that he really caters to. These people don’t look at America as average people trying to survive on their paychecks. They see Americans as simpletons who will continue to purchase whatever crap they make for pennies on the dollar in some third world country. Their globalization wealth is only reserved for those few who exploit any and every situation they can.
The downfall of America is not the social issues of the day – it will be the sellout of our economic soul to these few global elitists.
Tell me Capn, what do you consider poor?
In America, if you take the time to get an education and work, poor is a temporary condition.
Hank
PS How much do you think it would take to ‘buy and sell’ me?
FYI, DemocraticUnderground has a ban on any posts discussing conspiracy about Johnson’s illness.
Of course Capn they have a ban on Johnson conspiracies. If they didn’t thats all they would have. They also have a ban on any posters who do not toe the “marxist-progressive line”.
Judging by his name-dropping (”Democrat(ic) Underground or Firedoglake”) I’m guessing C.F.M.T. is one of those Wingnuts who lives to troll. Icky.
“Wingnut”, how original. Is that the first ephitet that popped into your head or is that the limit of your vocabulary? Hey CF, why don’t you take two Firedoglakes and call me in the morning.
Prediction:
Chris’s presence hereabouts will be brief.
There’s only so much BS she can shovel.
Recall:
JR said the same about KSGolfnut.
So you’re still here golf? And?
heh heh
You destroyed yourself.
There’s lots of ways to escaope poverty. One is to marry well……
Capn,Rolling Stone. THATS what I’ve been doing wrong. I should be getting finacial information from ROLLING STONE !!!!
Sheesh, saved me on that one. Thanx ;-)
C.F.M.T.
Actually, ‘toffee-nosed, malodorous pervert’ and ‘filthy little nonentity’ leapt to mind, but weren’t ideologically specific enough to distinguish the reactionary basis of your lameness.
You’re a nothing, pissant little right-wing troll; a simian flinging excrement at the zoo. A cliche’ like yourself merits the use of cliche’ names like ‘Wingnut.’ Show some ability and you’ll get a new name.
GoofNut–
You might try paying a little more attention because I also define “rich” as people who make more than 300 thousand a year.
But there’s rich as a percentage of the population, and then there’s Bush – Cheney rich. See my next post on that.
Hank — considering that you’re still working for a boss, not much. But apparently your wife had some money behind her.
Maybe a million if you’ve been socking money into the stock market and given the ridiculous appreciation of real estate. Remember that paper gains in stocks don’t mean anything until they’re cashed out . . .
(Might be a good time to bail on Halliburton, IMHO).
You realize of course that a million might keep Cheney’s motor yacht in gas for a year . . . if he didn’t drive it much.
Chris from Mac Town–where the hell is Mac Town anyway? It’s apparently right next to Cretin-ville.
Solly–attacking the source won’t work this time. Krugman is an Ivy League economist and writes a regular column in The New York Times.
What part of his analysis is in error?
Note: if you’re a loser, voting for people you see as “winners” — the party of extremely wealthy people — doesn’t make you less of a loser. You don’t get included into their clubhouse or anything.
It makes you more of a loser for maintaining that fantasy, actually.
Hey CF, you wouldn’t know ability if it reached out and kissed you. Your diatribes that are fueled by hatred and your left wing idealolgy are really quite lame. Actually, I’m just a working MAN who is home recovering from some surgery. Doing battle with mental midgets like you is just a way for me to pass the time. So you better enjoy me while you can, because sometime next week its back to work for me. By the way, childish namecalling and profanity is always the last refuge of someone who is losing an argument.
Here’s more on how the very rich have become fantastically rich under Reagan-Bush-Bush.
From Krugman’s article:
The widening gulf between workers and executives is part of a stunning increase in inequality throughout the U.S. economy during the past thirty years. To get a sense of just how dramatic that shift has been, imagine a line of 1,000 people who represent the entire population of America. They are standing in ascending order of income, with the poorest person on the left and the richest person on the right. And their height is proportional to their income — the richer they are, the taller they are.
Start with 1973. If you assume that a height of six feet represents the average income in that year, the person on the far left side of the line — representing those Americans living in extreme poverty — is only sixteen inches tall. By the time you get to the guy at the extreme right, he towers over the line at more than 113 feet.
Now take 2005. The average height has grown from six feet to eight feet, reflecting the modest growth in average incomes over the past generation. And the poorest people on the left side of the line have grown at about the same rate as those near the middle — the gap between the middle class and the poor, in other words, hasn’t changed. But people to the right must have been taking some kind of extreme steroids: The guy at the end of the line is now 560 feet tall, almost five times taller than his 1973 counterpart.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/12699486/paul_krugman_on_the_great_wealth_transfer/2
*****
Hank Price who is maybe 20 or 30 feet tall on Krugman’s scale looks down at the four and eight foot people and says, “I’m nothing like them! I’m much more like the 560 foot giant who could squash me like a bug.”
It apparently makes the wanna-bes feel good about themselves, so I don’t have a problem with that.
What I do have a problem with is they keep voting these help-the-rich idiots (or at least they did until 2006) that keep seriously harming the vast majority of us, right-wing included.
C.F.M.T.,
“Doing battle?” Don’t flatter yourself. All you’ve done here is to run your mouth and vindicate my and others’ dismissal of you. Your presence here is small and getting smaller with every post.
Maybe try saying something or making an argument or an assertion. That usually works real good!
So am I supposed to feel bad about my $2.3 mil sallary???
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAA
Hey this is supposed to be about Johnson. Lets all pray for him (those that do) and hope he has a full recovery if for nothing else his family’s sake.
I’m with you, Sol. God speed for his recovery.
Not at all, Sollie.
I’m glad that drawing a big salary makes you feel superior to others. That’s apparently important to your ilk.
If you really do make that much, it makes sense for you to vote for the help-the-rich party.
It doesn’t make sense for the rest of us though, does it?
Somehow, though, and this is just a hunch . . . I would think that someone who actually made a 2.3 million “sallary” would actually know how to spell “salary.”
HAHAHAHAHHAFat fingered it. Good catch capn. Crap man, If I pulled that kind of cheddar, would I be here gettin beat up by the likes of YOU??
HAHAHAHAHAH
Cap proves my point yet again. In fact, his (and all other liberals’) continual comparison of what he has vs. what the ultra-rich have is his downfall.
I get up everyday working to make myself more like the rich. I see what they’ve done and try to duplicate it. I view them as the model of success.
Cap, on the other hand, and all the other libs on this board, wake up everyday and think “how can I limit what the highly successful have done in an effort to make them more like me?”
Sad, huh?
Not, sad, Goof, stupid on your part.
You assume that the CEO of Walmart has done something or knows something that makes him earn more in two weeks than a floor worker will earn in a lifetime.
The only things these top CEO’s do especially well is collude with the board to set their salaries ridiculously high.
As CEO salaries have skyrocketed, their companies’ performance has remained the same and in many cases dropped off.
It is not fair, Goof Nuts, that productivity which is fueled by ALL THE WORKERS as well as management should go only to the top management.
The free market is free, granted. But the playing field can be made more level for the middle class by government. Reagan-Bush-Bush helped the rich get richer at everyone else’s expense.
Yours too, but you’re too dumb to see it.
Man, when your points are weak, you resort to name calling. Now the government should step in and tell businesses how their , oh.. let me say that again…THEIR money should be spent. That is sounding pretty communistic capn.
If you think that the CEO is getting too much and the workforce too little, don’t work there, don’t shop there, spew on blogs about what they are doing.
But instead, you think the government should control THEIR money? Where do you draw the line? Should little Suzy’s lemonade stand fall under this “blanket of Government Protection”?
Ah yeah, I didn’t say that at all, Sollie.
By leveling the playing field, I meant gov’t organization like the National labor relations board being able to enforce union protections for instance.
Reagan gutted labor enforcement. Unionization is at an all-time low and so are wages to productivity.
Minimum wage hasn’t been increased since 1997, even though Congress votes its pay up every year.
That’s only two things gov’t could do to help the majority of us in the middle-class.
“Reagan gutted labor enforcement. Unionization is at an all-time low and so are wages to productivity.”Outstanding. There is nothing worse than unions. I live in Michigan and around a lot of the UAW. I don’t think you want to open that can of worms. Not on a blog anyway. Email or telephonically.
“Minimum wage hasn’t been increased since 1997, even though Congress votes its pay up every year.”Minimum wage increase helps in the very short term. A tiny little band-aid that makes some folks feel better for a second. The economy will adjust as manufacturing and distribution costs increase. Prices go up and negate the minimum wage increase.
“It is not fair”
umm…duh.
Nothing is fair. I tell that to my kids every day, and now I’m telling it to Cap and the other libs. Surprised?
If you don’t like something. Change. Sol hit it right on the head: “don’t work there, don’t shop there, spew on blogs about what they are doing”
Walmart is highly successful for a variety of reasons. Most importantly, look at who shops there. Is it the rich? Hell, Paris Hilton thought Walmart was “wall mart” – as though one purchased walls there. It’s the working class! They get great benefit shopping at Walmart. Go there tomorrow and do a little research. See who’s shopping.
And, as with any corporation, if their performance isn’t acceptable, the first person to go is the CEO.
Minimum wage…
There is not a single worker at Walmart that earns minimum wage. None. Zero. Increasing the minimum wage to $8.00 would not affect the Walmart worker. Don’t believe me? Call Walmart and ask what the starting wage is.
So says sol who likely has never REALLY worked a day in his life.
I think you said you were in software?
Lotsa folks in India getting into that. That great big bad free market gonna be breathing down your neck soon enough. You’re just too damne self important to know it.
Poor guy had a brain bleed.Ouch. That’s gotta hurt.I hope he improves so his family can at least have him around for another christmas.I know how the family feels right now.I hope they have some loving folks around to screen them from all the partisan BS surrounding this unfortunate incident.
Sol,You’re a software developer?
Tracy,Agreed. I have a feeling his family isn’t thinking too hard about politics, the Senate, Harry Reid, Rush Limbaugh or KSGolfnut too much right now.
I have a very good friend who lost her husband to a brain aneurism a few years ago. He complained of a headache one night before bed. When she woke up in the morning, he was dead beside her.
Brain bleeding – bad stuff.
I’m with you Tracy. I hope he gets well soon.
Jr. if you only had a clue. I spent 10 years in the Army as a diesel mechanic. I fought in the first Gulf war and stood post at the –then—most forward deployed division in the free world. HAHAHAHAH My easiest days In the Army would have broken your back.
I faced six months out of work when the economy went to crap. Had to pack the family up and move to North Carolina where there was work. Hey, Charlotte is absolutely exploding!!!!
I am still trying to recover from the loss of work, lack of work today and the moves back and forth.
Do I blame the government? Absolutely not. This is a path I chose to take and the consequences are mine to deal with.
Go shovel crap somewhere else junior.
GolfNut. I like to call myself a .Net Architect. heeheehee. Do you code?
I don’t write much anymore, but I do have the gift to do so. I’m an administrator/project manager, and mostly, I interface with customers to develop a SOW.
Nut, I developed some SoW’s for the DoD.We could have an entire converstion with the stupid acronyms.Had whole lists of the damn things.Sol, I can kinda’ sorta relate to your job.I’ve been in tooling design before.I see puters and software as tools.
Hoo boy
sol is one of those Tarzan conservatives. Yup he gonna be rich……some day.
What an idiot.
Tracy,That’s exactly what they are – tools. It’s a jig for data, if you will, or a fixture for information.
Typically, I figure out what the customer wants (ergo: the SOW), then I’ll sketch a rough outline of the architecture of the system. In that regard, I’m the engineer designing the tool.
Then, one of our developers puts it to work – he’s the machinist. It’s the same philosophy as tool design. We do, however, manage to avoid the grease and oil.
JR thinks those of us that have goals and aspirations to be successful…
…are idiots.
Hmmm…do all liberals think that way?
“Hoo boy
sol is one of those Tarzan conservatives. Yup he gonna be rich……some day.
What an idiot.”
Posted by: J R | December 15, 2006 at 02:23 PM
jr-You are something, but not special. That’s the darndest thing I ever heard. Have you just given up? When I was a child, I thought I would be rich someday (a million a year), but now that I’m older I know that I will not be rich, but I am doing very well and will be doing better as the years go along.You can have your attitude. It is what is the poison of “you people”.
No matter how much money you make or how much you accumulate, money will never be able to buy a conscience or class.
Personnaly my definition of ‘rich’ has changed over the years. When I met my wife she was fresh out school wwith an $80,000 student loan, unable to get an SBA because she just recovered from cancer, maybe.
We were living hand to mouth trying to start a new business. We were rich.
We make enough money now to do what we want. But we’re not rich. Wealth has nothing to do with the amount of money you make.
If you want to be rich, tithe 10%, save 10% and pay your taxes in that order.
When you try to determine ‘how tall’ you are by Krugman’s scale you fall into the socialist’s class envy trap. The poor people in this country spend over twice as much as their reported income. None of the government benefits that they recieve go toward their reported income. They may only be ‘16 inches tall’ according to their income but if you were to measure them by what they spend and their life style they would have to duck to get through the door.
The ‘500 foot’ tall rich, on the other hand, would be a lot shorter if you measured them by their modest life style. (Read the book, “The Millionaire Next Door”)
Monetarily I’m not rich, but I’m rich in all of the things that matter to me!
Hank
C.F.M.T,I have some history in McPherson. I always got the impression there was a lot of inbreeding there. By the way, are you married? If so, say you and your wife got a divorce…could you still address her as sis?
This is why the Republicans do so well and why the American people are doing so badly.
Just read the posts by the right-wingers.
The rich are literally eating your lunch and you say that I’M guilty of class envy!
You morons. As Hamlet says, “I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself the lord of infinite space.”
The RICH bleed you dry and the man who tells you about it must be a “communist.”
They ENGAGE in rapacious class warfare of the worst kind, but anyone who talks about it is guilty of “class warfare.”
As for Hank’s suggestion to read “The Millionaire Next Door,” I don’t have to read it, Hank. I’m living it.
I long ago realized that there was no future in taking on debt that had to be repaid with interest. It was much better to be the “bank” and loan it out to people who have to pay you back.
This is why I paid cash for my first car. And my second car. And my third car. And my first house. And my second house. And my three college degrees.
I know all about how capitalism works. But not everybody can do what I did. I made good money overseas for instance. Most people can’t pull up and go like that.
That’s why I’m hopping mad about how the rich are stealing the production increased away from the people who are earning them through the collusion of the government.
Anybody with a brain should be mad about it too.
If extreme wealth were just a natural by-product of the free market system, we should expect to find extreme wealth in Europe and Japan.
We don’t. Because they care more about protecting the rights of the middle class there.
I bet you paid cash because your credit sucks. You are too bitter for your own good. I know, I’ve been there.
Really, Fleetttwood?
My wife bought a new car a while back and we financed it for .9 percent.
They told me my credit rating was 680.
Is that good?
Because I never take out loans, so I don’t know . . .
Still, you’d think having your house paid in full would count for something, wouldn’t you?
Well, well, Capn,
You’re the rich bastard we should all envy!
For you people that think you are poor and downtrodden, read the “Millionaire Next Door”!
In my life, all the millionaires I know…live next door!
Hank
That’s a good rate!Viva la Republicanos!
That’s the trouble, Hank. You think of rich in terms of Wichita rich.
The ones that are picking your pockets never let the holloi-polloi like you and me see them. They live in gated communities with “security.”
Unless it’s when Dick Cheney comes to town to fill a few suitcases with donations . . .
Hank, it’s a great book. I agree wholeheartedly. And, read anything you can get your hands on by Dave Ramsey – and/or listen to his radio show. The dude knows how to motivate people to get out of debt.
Cap,I don’t think the gubment has colluded with me at all. I don’t recall getting any special memo from Dubya or having some kinda cool bat-phone that gives me super-secret info on how to be successful.
So why am I better off than…say…PeeMom?
I play poker the first Tuesday of each month with the neighbors, most of them are ‘rich’ by most people’s definition. They weren’t always rich, they worked hard for it.
This time of the year they leave home in the dark and it’s dark when they get home. Poverty is a mindset.
Hank
And why am I better off than you?
If you reich-wingers insist on making this into who has the biggest penis, there’s no use continuing.
Here it is, once again. I’ll type real s l o w f o r y o u –
Productive (economic output) keeps going up year after year. The people who are responsible for that productivity gain (workers) are getting no gain in wages.
Why?
Because all the wealth created is going to the very richest Americans.
Kinda like the tax breaks.
If you think that is a good thing–that people work harder so somebody else can get richer–then keep voting for the government that encourages it to happen.
On the other hand, if you’re not an idiot and you want to keep some of the wealth you create, and you want to have some of the living standards that the ten top countries enjoy–none of them are the US btw–don’t continue to support Republicans.
And remember, folks, Fleettwood, Hank, Goof Nut et al were the same people who said the Dems would get trounced last month.
People maybe slowing waking up to who’s been hitting them across the head all these years . . .
If one isn’t taxed, it is very difficult to get a tax cut. There just isn’t anything to cut. For a guy with 3 degrees and only fair credit, I’m surprised you didn’t know that.Bigger penis? That’s your fantasy, not mine.
Ah, Capn,
Right out of the left-wing-socialist-DNC-propaganda play book.
You are enlightened enough to become rich without the government but the same government is responsible for holding the rest of us down.
What a pompous, self-righteous, arrogant asshole you are. Really.
Hank
Not one response to the actual argument.
Typical.
As for assh*le perhaps, but I don’t see how caring about people who don’t have it as good as I do qualifies as “self-righteous or arrogant.”
Because I want the people who create the wealth to be able to keep the wealth?
There was a time when conservatives would have agreed with that.
And the gov’t is keeping me down too and you and Goof Nut and anybody else who works for a living instead of invests for a living.
There is a fundamental problem with your argument, Cap. Economic output is a product labor and capital.
Labor is a commodity just like any other resource. The price of labor is a function of supply and demand – just like any other resource.
Capital is perpetually at risk. Unlike labor where payment is guaranteed, a return on capital is never assured. When the economy turns south, capital immediately loses value, and can potentially be reduced to zero.
So why do business owners realize the increase in wealth when the economy grows? Because they’re the ones taking risks, applying strategy, leveraging innovation. It’s a razor thin line, and it can all be lost overnight.
Yet, labor will still get paid.
I appreciate the attempt at refutation.
So, according to you, there’s no incentive for labor to increase productivity since all the wealth created should go to management and capital.
Also, why did increased productivity in the past lead to wage increases but they don’t any more?
Yes, capital deserves some of the profit. Of course. I have stocks and I expect a positive return from them. I’m not a socialist no matter how often Hank calls me one.
Management also deserves its part of the pie.
But why doesn’t labor? Because they get paid anyway?
As workers increase their productivity, they should get some of the wealth they create. That’s the way it used to be and that’s the way it is in countries in which worker protections haven’t been eviscerated.
If you think the United States would be better if it were more like Chile or Argentia instead of Denmark or Germany, well, you’re getting your wish.
It’s as simple as this:
I buy a car for $1000 hoping to fix it up and sell it for more. I pay one guy $100 to clean it and another $100 to paint it. Now I’ve got $1200 in the car, and I sell it for $1500.
I just made $300, and you’re suggesting that I split that with the guys that I already paid?
Capn, I so agree with you. And for Hank to not think the poor works equally as hard obviously has never been poor.
If everyone could be rich, there would be nobody to make the products. Not everyone can own a business. You have to have workers and bosses. I think those who own the businesses owe it to the workers that make the business successful- to give back to them.
Golf subscribes to anything that justifies greed. And if you think this is a good policy, just remember eventually the poor will revolt.
The new job I just took, I was speaking to the boss today. When they advertised the job- I was stunned, it’s not a job that I would have expected to pay so well. She said she got tired of running 900 dollar ads to get crappy applicants. So she upped the payscale and she said that it brought in a whole new group of workers (like me!). If you want quality, you have to pay for it.
If more workers believed their wages were directly connected to the success of the company- that they’ll be rewarded when it’s good, and suffer the consequences when it’s bad, you’re gonna get more productive employees.
Bad news for fleettwood and other like-minded Republicans:
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/breaking_news/16251527.htm
Doctor: Senator’s progress ‘encouraging’
I’m likely the least economically advantaged poster on this blog. It aint cause I didn’t work hard. I just don’t and won’t play the game of suck the ass ahead of you that it takes to survive in thisbeknighted society.
American dream my ass.
I note that it is fairly clear that Hank and golfnuts are the product of the success of their wives. Maybe that is the source of some of their defensiveness?
I note that Hank mentions tithing and that Golf mentions Dave Ramsey. Uh huh. That works so well for Republicans. They are SUPPOSED to have more than everyone else because “God” ordains it so. “If thou doest not well, then sin layeth at the door”.
What crap. What self justifying crap.
Well I’ll tell you where I see your country headed. I see a time when my kid has to hit your kid over the head to survive. And I’d much rather he did that then ever bow to you or your capricious God.
Capn is an example of what a wealthy person OUGHT to be. HE doesn’t want to keep it all to himself and toss crumbs to the masses to make them dance for amusement.
Golf’s parents were fairly well off too ya know, all those CPA’s or Restaurant owners, whichever the story is today.
PeeMom,Both
Ben, if you think conservatives want Johnson to do anything but recover 100% then you are a delusional fool. Read the posts.
junior. What drivel is it you speak?
Sol, I’m convinced some of these people can’t read. Or maybe it’s a liberal infliction to just not comprehend.
I dunno. I haven’t seen one single conservative (or any other persuasion) wish anything but a full and speedy recovery for the Senator.
Fleetwood, trolls suck
I read a few of your earlier posts. Shame these folks have to resort to trolling to get an edge.
I really don’t think that’s a troll. He makes comments like this regularly.
Do you really thing Fleet would wish ill will on a man durring Christmas? Not his style.
Fleet. please step up and disavow this troll. I smell junior in the midst.
uh, yeah sol, I do. Read his excuse.
See, enema, even sol thinks you’re a dick.
Fleet. step up. is that you?
pmom-You are not and will not be at my level. You have proven that you are just a lonely gal, hoping to make a miserable difference on this miserable blog.You were right, though. Star Trek led to the internets. I’ll give you that. And cell phones.
Fleet, if that is you, then I must break ranks. I wish ill will on no man. especially one who has a family to support and a brain bleed over the Christmas break.
Sol-I have already said yes!
Sol, embrace the crap that is your party.
Fleet, if that is you, then I must break ranks. I wish ill will on no man. especially one who has a family to support and a brain bleed over the Christmas break.
Pol_Mom,Even if this IS fleet, that does NOT represent my party
I wish ill will on no man, either. If ill will falls on someone, then it does. My wishing or not wishing makes no difference.If he recovers, then so be it.I think it is a little superstitious to think that people hoping one way or another can make a difference. That is silly.
Tasteless? YesIndicative of our party. No.
ahhh fleet. So sad.
Rush, Hannity, testicles and enema. They run your party.
They are using you for their votes.
The moderate republican is only a tool now.
Where is the “party” in this?Tasteless, yes! That is me.But I don’t get where this indicts the repubs. Good God, Almighty! If you wanted to indict the party over my behavior past or present, good luck getting anyone elected.
Something smells here.
fleetwoodmac,
You’re a dickhead.
That’s nice, youre still a dickhead.
Uhh, that’s not Fleetwood. His band is playing tonight.
I’ve said before I don’t think Rush carries nearly the weight he did with the party as a decade ago (no pun intended).His personal demons has cost him a lot of respect and creditability, not to mention 3 marriages or whatever its been.
fleets has been going on for days about libs not being able to take a joke.
I bet testicles right now is emailing him and telling him to STFU because they don’t want the liberals to know they really feel that way.
Rush still speaks for republicons, that’s why his ratings are still high. That isn’t the far right listening to him. And testicles has said many times he loves Rush, and agrees with him.
I’d just call him, Pee. But he’s playing tonight – not at home.
Or, is that too difficult to comprehend?
Pee, as usual, you’re wrong.
I’ve said that I listen to Rush every day. And, I do. But I’ve never said that I love him (not the kind of thing I’d say – although I do love Jimmy Buffett), and I certainly don’t agree with everything he says.
In fact, Pee, you commented on a post I made yesterday about Rush being a 10 on the scale, and I game myself about a 7.5. Did you forget that?
Do you share the same brain that Cap and Junior use?
I don’t believe a word from you.
*gave*
Did he tell you he was playing tonight specifically?
Because I’ve known many people in bands, even very popular ones, and they don’t play all that regularly. SO if you’re thinking just because it’s friday, he must be playing…you’re mistaken.
pol_mom. you have still not responded to the post on Picking Kline a loser for GOP
Ratings don’t necessarily equal followers/Sheep.Lots are people like you listening for more fuel for your fire.
Note how very quiet the ‘trolled’ enema just got?
Usually the troller will continue on with other people’s ID’s. Not just one. Golf just gave him a way out, an alibi, and he’s gonna try to take it.
And another thing.Do you agree with what your party’s elected officials do 100% of the time. Or your commentators say?
So, Pol+Mom, you still haven’t addressed me on Picking Kline a loser for GOP
Pee,I don’t just speculate. I know that his band is playing tonight, and I know exactly where.
Curiously, if you don’t believe a word I say, why do you ask me questions?
Further proof of your lower intellect.
Further proof of your lower intellect.
No reason to get nasty bro
Sometimes, Sol – calling a spade a spade is necessary.
I’m no ones “junior” sol. Save my father. He spent his life fighting for idiots like you who fight against their own best interests. And no I trolled no one.
What ever jr. if you had a tenth of your father’s integrity… if you attempted a tenth what your father had…go to bed junior.
such a shame. KSGN
No Kia, I don’t always agree with my party. But if the same person regularly tried to put himself off as a mouthpiece for the party who was so hateful, I can bet you money we’d reel him in or disown him.
I can give you an example. I wasn’t there- but my friends told me about it. Democrat rally, the entertainment was a supposedly Democratic singer. He was singing some things that were really offensive to our group.
We weren’t going to give that guy an audience.
Oh I meant to say that most of everyone in that room got up and left.
so the group left the building??????
sol
Don’t forget that I saved your ass from being “paul” as in Paul Rosell. Another poster I destroyed.
Get straight with the forum before you take me on buddy.
You are in Michigan? Or is it Carolina?
Your posts TODAY say both.
And don’t you DARE talk about my father. He fought for people like you all his life. Ass suckers like you stabbed him in the back at every turn.
There’s plenty of hate mongers on both sides to go around I think Mom.I wouldn’t describe Rush that harshly. To me personally I do find staunch conservatism without personal religious morals to be mean spirited.
“Go to bed junior”
Hows about you GET in bed. Get in bed with that bastard golfnuts.
Junior. Get a clue as to who you are and who you are addresing before you go pff.
Bless your father and fuck you.
I would describe Rush that harshly.
I’m outta here for awhile, hubby and I are gonna go spend some quality time together. :D
Seems like Junior can’t live up to daddy’s expectations, so he’s just checking out.
There’s a shocker.
As I said, I am no ones junior.
Michigan or Carolina sol?
heh heh
Sad part is I really don’t enjoy busting this dittohead.
“Seems like Junior can’t live up to daddy’s expectations, so he’s just checking out.
There’s a shocker.”
Golfnut, being that you never knew JR’s dad, and don’t really know JR, you might want to knock it the hell off.
Thank you.
That must be a hard one to swallow. JR has a heart and soul…unlike most of the comservative posters I’m reading.
Go get em, JR. This time, I’ll stay in the car, LOL!
KSGolfN–
Your example is of hiring people to fix up the car is fine is far as it goes.
But that’s not what is in dispute.
Workers are not just “equipment”–human robots.
They can improve the means of production too. And when they do, some of the wealth they create, they should be able to keep–otherwise, there’s no incentive.
Let me give you a counter-example. You go into business fixing up old cars. Your men can fix up an average of two cars a week. But then they get efficient at it and fix up three cars a week.
According to you, they are still worth no more than when you hired them even though you’re now producing 50 percent more output.
I once rented a house from a guy who’s father worked as an engineer for Kellogg’s cereal. They had a “suggestion box” for ideas. So the engineer writes a note saying that since we put cereal in boxes lined with wax paper, you could perforate the boxes and turn the box into a cereal bowl.
Two weeks later the man is fired.
He had submitted such a good money-making idea, the company made sure that he wouldn’t be around to ask for any of it.
Yup, that’s the so-called “free market.”
Rush Limbaugh – Historian…
Throughout the Nineties, Limbaugh blamed Chilton for Ruby Ridge. The facts seem to get in the way of a good story:
What did Clinton have to do with Ruby Ridge? The incident at Ruby Ridge happened August 22, 1992 in Idaho. At the time, Bill Clinton was Governor of Arkansas. He was elected president in November 1992 and took the oath of office in January 1993. The FBI was responsible for the fatal attack. Did the Governor of Arkansas give the order to a Federal agency?
Rush Limbaugh – Lying Nazi Whore…
To the posters who say that no CONservative would ever gloat about Johnson’s illness and having to step down–
Here’re a small sample of posts I culled from The Free Republic website. They have not be altered in any way, just cut and pasted.
Enjoy.
******
I hope he recovers – still, while trying not to be ghoulish and tacky, what party is the governor of SD (who would appoint his replacement)?
Prayers for his recovery, and that he’ll decide to retire from the Senate.
After today’s presser and this news – Carl Levin is heading to a local union hole for three boilermakers and Hill has just kicked the hell out of her cat.
As I recall, he barely beat Thune, and that was only because of some fraudulent votes from the Indian reservations.
I like to believe that everything happens for a reason – fate guides our hands in unusual ways.
Is it okay if I wish him well, but unable to continue as Senator?
Been a long time since we’ve caught a break.
you either play to win, or leave the field.
we’ve spent the last 6 years getting our teeth kicked in for trying the “new tone”. it doesn’t work.
I hope the GOP gov appoints a Republican, and a conservative one at that, to fill his spot.
Just because a tragedy happens is no reason to ignore the fact that the voters voted for a Republican Governor in South Dakota, and, thusly, endorsed him to chose who to appoint in such situations, which would presumably be a Republican.
Bipartisanship is capitulation
Screw bipartisanship. Appoint a republican
If it was Ted Kennedy, I would just flat out wouldn’t comment
Politics is warfare by other means and the dems stole the seat he currently occupies from the other current SD Senator, John Thune.
Is this a hairplugs-related problem?
We’ve often heard of “bleeding heart liberals”. Now we know of one “bleeding head liberal”.
Would all the Democrats care to be judged by Joy Behar’s comments that Republicans somehow “did” this to him?I think a statement as ridiculous as that is as hurtful and damaging and scoffs at the seriousness of this to Johnson and his family as any of these other knuckleheaded comments.
Truly so, MrK; the direction whence the comments come does not make them any less knuckleheaded.
Junior, if you read my posts you will see that I live in MI. I moved to NC for 6 months for work. Now we are back.
Thanks, P_Mom–congrats on the new job
Notice how the conservatives change the grounds of the arguments?
First they say that Bush’s tax breaks “benefit the poor more than the rich.” I show that to be unequivocally false, that the richest 1 percent got more than 100 times the tax break of the bottom 60 percent. Then they come back with, “well, the more taxes you pay, the more of a break you can get.”
Okay, that’s fine. But it’s in utter contradiction to your first position.
Now we’ve got KIA who makes the accurate observation that not all liberals would like to be judged on the basis of one.
However, that’s not what I was doing, KIA. I was responding to this pearl of wisdumb:
“if you think conservatives want Johnson to do anything but recover 100% then you are a delusional fool.”
Some conservatives clearly do not want Johnson to do anything but recover 100 percent.
I’m sure it helps for CONservatives to hold two mutually exclusive positions at the same time, but try not to do it on the WEBlog.
Thank you,
The Management
“if you think conservatives want Johnson to do anything but recover 100% then you are a delusional fool.”
That wasn’t a quote from me. So what’s your point? All of us Republicans must/surely think alike? Quite a progressive opinion.
No, you don’t all think alike, KIA.
Some of you listen and repeat Rush and others of you listen and repeat Bill O’Reilly.
I do notice that you CONs never seem to disagree with each other, unlike the libs.
When one CON argument is proven false, you just throw up another. That doesn’t stop you from using the proven false one at a later date.
I’ll bet you 50 dollars that within the next six months, some CON repeats the same tired lie about the “tax cuts helped the poor more than the rich.”
You people don’t care if it’s true or not. You repeat it because you WANT it to be true.
You’ve made lazzie-faire free marketering your religion and you believe anything that supports it–even when proven false–and disbelieve anything that refutes it, even when patently and manifestly true.
You’re like the fundamentalist Christians who think that every word in the Bible is LITERALLY true, even though that can’t possibly be right because of the many internal logical inconsistencies of the Bible itself.
Doesn’t matter. It’s all true. Don’t think. Just believe. Listen to Rush.
I’ll bet you 50 dollars that within the next six months, some CON repeats the same tired lie about the “tax cuts helped the poor more than the rich.”
-There’s no doubt of that one. First of all because it’s true.What the libby’s don’t want to understand is it helps more than the $300 pocket. Tax cuts across the board *stimulate* the economy. The more you have to spend/invest/donate the more you will.
As far as my religion goes and just about every other. They are based on faith. There are many things you can’t prove yet believe I’m sure. It’s called faith.
Maybe that’s why you and yours seem so angry all the time. You are so busy trying to disprove something and anything, you just can’t show the simple faith of a child in something and reap the benefits of it (which among others are inner peace.).
The tax cuts were supposed to stimulate the economy, raise receipts and erase deficit spending, according to trickle ecomonics, a.k.a., voodoo economics.
That was the theory of Reagan in 1980. It hasn’t happened yet, except under a Democratic President who RAISED taxes.
The Bush tax cuts have yet to come close to bring in receipts that would balance the budget. The spending increases have been exclusively for “defense” spending, so expeditures cannot be blamed on the Democrats.
So when is the Bush economy going to pay dividends?
The Reagan tax cuts actually causes federal receipts to DROP by $17 billion dollars in fiscal year ‘83. That’s not even taking inflation into account.
Conservatives ideologues invariably frame the issue as poor people whining about their problems but, the truth is, those who have benefited the most are far beyond a level of wealth that 99% of the people will never see. And even millionaires are paupers when you look at who’s really running the show.
There’s also an interesting contradiction in their reasoning. On one hand, as Ian MacKaye once reminded us, nothing is fair. Yet the system is presumed to be so fair that using one’s democratic franchise to make it more fair is somehow cheating! That’s already an uphill battle, since, as “the real golden rule” states, those who have the gold make the rules.
I think it’s basically worship of wealth (see “The Bell Curve” for the ugly correlations to that type of thinking), a view that assets are somehow are a direct reflection of intelligence and work ethic. Or more generally, a (not entirely unjustified) view that sucking up to power pays off. Sorry, folks, in many ways I admire Bill Gates (in a sense going from a mere wealthy background to his level is truly “rags to riches”). But the man is not “worth” 60 billion dollars.
Pell grants, small business loans, and the like ultimately benefit more than the recipients. A more educated population and more small businesses benefit everyone. Universal health care ultimately protects the health of everyone (H5N1 flu, anyone?). We can continue this pretense as long as we like, but the truth is, no man is an island.
We’re all in this together.
Wow, some good posts there, WSC and Rage.
I think this is the biggest issue of our time, and except for a few people like Krugman and Greg Palast, hardly anybody is talking about it.
The middle class is really getting squeezed ever since Reagan. Clinton’s heart was in the right place and for a few years wages actually increased against inflation, but Bush made it worse than it ever was.
We can’t go decade after decade seeing the 80 percent of the wage earners in this country continue to decline.
That’s unsustainable for the economy. We’re already seeing the price of new cars falling drastically because nobody can afford to buy them. First, they instituted free financing, then they just lowered the price. I’ve never seen new car prices as low as they are now.
People who don’t make any money can’t buy anything.
It’s extreme wealth inequality that leads to increased socialistic tendencies if not communist revolution.
We need a little more “socialism” (really just gov’t intervention) now to stop the demand for a lot more real socialism later.