How refreshing to have a secretary of defense who will admit mistakes. Nominee Robert Gates said at his confirmation hearing today that “there clearly were insufficient troops in Iraq after the initial invasion” — something his predecessor, Donald Rumsfeld, would never acknowledge. Gates also agreed that the United States is not winning the war in Iraq, though he said we are not losing it either.
Gates, who was a member of the Iraq Study Group before being nominated, envisions a dramatically smaller number of U.S. troops in Iraq, but that an American presence would be required “for a long time,” the New York Times reported.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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71 Comments
Phillip,
Well, I’ll be more impressed when the mistakes to which Gates admits are his own.
Gates may be no Rumsfeld but he’s a Bush choice so he won’t do anything but what Bush tells him to. The Iraq study committee is a sham since if they propose anything other than getting more Americans killed they’ll be rejected. The media mentions all of this as if it will actually change anything that Bush has committed to.
I don’t mind this guy with wet feet..it means he doesn’t walk on water, like the last guy!
Isn’t this the same guy that was up to his neck in Iran Contra with Ronald Reagan? I’ll believe what I see when I see it.
Yes sunny, and also with ‘doctoring’ CIA data for the administration.
But he says he has learned from his mistakes.
And the lesson he has learned is what? Not to get caught this time?
Involved in Iran-Contra eh? I suppose that would make him a criminal which would be the proper qualification to work in the Bush crime family. Rumsfeld gave weapons to Iraq, Gates gave weapons to Iranians, certainly he was selected for his past job experience.
Sunny: You’re just going to have to trust me on this one. Bobby Gates is a man of honor, a man of integrity, and a man of his word. I am proud to say that he is my friend of four decades, and, right up there with Oliver North, truly gives a damn about this country. And he’s nobody’s stooge, even the President’s.
So rm6046, you befriend criminals and traitors to our nation and hold them in high esteem. That certainly says a lot about your character. Don’t you have an American flag to burn?
I would never burn the flag. I’m simply telling you things that I know. If you think Bob and Ollie are traitors or criminals, that’s your right, I suppose. My right is knowing you are a fucking idiot who doesn’t know what the hell you are talking about.
It’s not only my right, it’s a fact. They went behind Congress’ back, broke the law, and weakened our national security. Sounds like you are a fucking idiot, and a traitor piece of shit.
Let’s learn more about the traitorous thug Gates. He advocated bombing innocent civilians in Nicaragua and wanted to overthrow the democratically elected government.
So it sounds like he, just like Bush, has no problem starting illegal wars. That would make him a war criminal just like Saddam Hussein and Adolph Hitler who started wars of imperialist aggression.
Gates helped support the Contras who were responsible for the deaths of 60,000 people. The Contras kidnapped, tortured and murdered whomever they pleased. Seeing that Gates played a role in this that would make him a mass murderer. The good ol’ Contras would destroy schools and hospitals, clearly vital military targets for those who wage a campaign of terrorism against the people. That would put him in the realm of Osama Bin Laden.
I’m told by a right wing nut that this is a fine, upstanding guy. I’ll let the facts speak for themselves.
Right wing nut?? I’ve been called a bunch of things, but never that one before. Wake up, Doug, to the real world. Have you ever been to Nicarauga? Have you ever been to Central America? Texas? How ’bout Northern Oklahoma?
I’ve traveled to a few places but does that justify supporting terrorists who kill 60,000 people? Does that justify wanting to bomb innocent civilians and commit war crimes and betray your nation?
You are really, really pathetic. I hope the FBI keeps close tabs on terrorist supporters like you.
rm – I have never been to Central America but have talked to many people who have been. They tell me there is a lot of love for American PEOPLE but a lot of resentment against our government for supporting terrorism in nicaragua, despots in Guatamala and elsewhere, overthrowing democratically elected governments such as Chile and replacing with brutal dictators.
This is sadly similar to doing similar things in the Middle east such as overthrowing the Iranian democracy and installing the Shah.
Which “democratically elected” dictator in Chile are you referring to — Allende or Pinochet? And the Shah was worse than the Ayatollah in Iran? The situation in Iraq is terrible. And Saddam is (until they hang him) a terrorist. And we should not be there, shouldn’t ever have been there, screw them. I don’t care, frankly. As I have said before, it wasn’t any of our business in the first place. But, we’re there. And now, we’ve got to get out. Pack it up and come home … whatever happens, happens. My point was simply that I have known Bob for years and years, and he is as I described him.
Hey nimrod, the Shah was installed after the U.S. and Britain overthrew the democratically elected secular leader of Iran. Perhaps you need an education on the real world. Was one of your friends involved in this too. Were their actions responsible for the deaths of thousands in Iran?
You seem to have quite the disregard for life. Apparently you disagree since you have been to northern Oklahoma, whatever that is supposed to mean. Congratulations on being able to drive south of Wichita.
rm6046,
Here’s the record on Oliver North, from Wikipedia.
“During the hearings, he admitted that he had lied to Congress, for which he was later charged among other things. He defended his actions by stating that he believed in the goal of aiding the Contras, whom he saw as freedom fighters, and said that he viewed the Iran-Contra scheme as a “neat idea” (see [2]).
North was tried in 1988 in relation to his activities while at the National Security Council. He was indicted on sixteen felony counts and on May 4, 1989, he was convicted of three: accepting an illegal gratuity, aiding and abetting in the obstruction of a congressional inquiry, and destruction of documents (by his secretary, Fawn Hall, on his instructions). He was sentenced by U.S. District Judge Gerhard A. Gesell on July 5, 1989, to a three-year suspended prison term, two years probation, $150,000 in fines, and 1,200 hours community service.
However, on July 20, 1990, with the help of the ACLU (see [3]), North’s conviction was overturned by a three-judge appeals panel in advance of further proceedings on the grounds that his public testimony may have prejudiced his right to a fair trial ([4]).
The Supreme Court declined to review the case, and Judge Gesell dismissed the charges on September 16, 1991, after hearings on the immunity issue, on the motion of the independent counsel. Judge Gesell fell ill soon afterwards, and passed away from liver cancer in 1993.
Essentially, North’s convictions were overturned because he had been granted limited immunity for his Congressional testimony, and this testimony was deemed to have influenced witnesses at his trial.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_North
He intentionally subverted the will of the American people, as expressed in the Boland Amendment passed by Congress. The fact that his conviction was overturned on appeal does not change the fact that he admitted to breaking the law.
America is a nation of laws, not of men. Failure to understand that qualifies you as the fucking idiot.
Like I stated before, I’ll believe what I see when I see it from Gates. I don’t just trust anyone and especially if Gates is ranked right up there with Oliver North. You may see them as honorable men but I remember quite a different view of Ollie North and he was a defiant one at that!
Well isn’t this just great. The Republicans are so hellbent on how great Oliver North is but yet he admitted that he lied to Congress. But yet Bill Clinton lied to Congress and the Republicans spent how many milliions to impeach him?
The Republicans really are a piece of work. It’s that old adage again – do as I say and not as I do. No wonder the majority of Americans are fed up with your lying party.
Perhaps Rethuglicans believe that’s it’s okay to lie when there is money to be made. Of course that money is often sucked from the pockets of taxpayers but we are mere pawns in their power scheme. If 60,000 brown skinned people must die to make a few bucks then even better for right wing nuts like rm6046.
Gates is already proving himself to be a slimy POS: “we’re not winning but we’re not losing.”
Hey, Einstein, it’s one or the other. If you’re not winning a guerrilla type war, you’re losing.
Because the insurgents LIVE THERE and they’re don’t have any place to go home to.
“Not losing” is the insurgents’ definition of WINNING. “Not winning” is the invaders’ definition of losing . . .
So the Court of Appeals is not relevent, and should be abolished. Well, hell, while we’re at it, we might as well abolish the Supreme Court, too ? And, what the fuck does this have to do with “60,000 brown-skinned people”? Keep blogging, you are proving my point better than I am … for a “right wing nut, of course.
You never explained why going to northern Oklahoma is a justification for killing 60,000 brown skinned people. Are you too busy trying to ignite an American flag to address the question?
Capn: You’re right…poor analogy on Mr. Gate’s part … nevertheless, it doesn’t point to him being a criminal or a traitor. But, those of us who have never tripped over our wording or used a poor analogy, stand up !!! Funny, the crowd seems to have disappeared !Doug: I’m trying to figure out (a) if you’ve ever been out of Doodah, and (b) what “60,000 brown-skinned people” you’re going on and on about?
Hey moron, that doesn’t address the issue. The fact that I’ve been in two foreign countries and numerous states isn’t even relevant to the issue. Let me ask you again, coward, how does going to northern Oklahoma justify your friend’s slaughter of 60,000 brown skinned people?
WHAT “60,000 brown skinned people” are you fucking talking about?? Do you not comprehend the question for the fourth time?
Pay attention moron, the 60,000 people in Nicaragua your friend helped slaughter. I didn’t think you were that incompetent that you needed things repeated to you, especially since you bragged about how worldly you are.
And we killed them all … is that your premise? I don’t think so. Nicargua was in disarray long before we ever got involved. The incumbant government ranked right up there with Hitler and the SS. Were the Contras any better? Apparently so, since they just re-elected what’s-his-name. The people think so, anyway. What I don’t understand is why you seem to want to make this a “race case”. It doesn’t matter what color these people were. What matters is that someone killed them, and certainly we were responsible for some of them, but not all of them. Learn from our mis-steps, and do better next time. Have we? I don’t know. I hope so.
As usual, coward, you evaded the question and tried to justify mass slaughter. Nicaragua is an independent country and the elected their own leader. Your friend sought to overthrow him and support terrorists to murder civilians. Somehow this is justified because you didn’t like the country and you went to northern Oklahoma. Goodness, you are one ignorant fuck. Your heroes helped supply the weapons and funding so they can slaughter the people. The deaths of 60,000 people isn’t a “mis-step” it is a war crime. Isn’t it great how you just shrug off the slaughter of so many people. In your view how many dead does it take before your “mis-step” become a crime to take seriously? 60,000, 600,000 or even 6,000,000 people?
What matter is your “friend” helped kill those people. This is the same person who is going to be our Secretary of Defense. Putting him in charge of our military is like putting a convicted pedophile in charge of schoolchildren. I guess the pedophile just made a mistake and will certainly learn from that mistake so no worries.
Moron.
Why isn’t the media and such talking more about this appointment as part of the Iran-Contra affair? I remember at one time this was a huge deal. So much that Reagan had to testify with his ‘I don’t recall’ bit.
If any of these guys had anything to do with Iran-contra, we should never let them hold any office again. There are a whole lot of people who say Shrub is an honorable man, but I think we know differently now don’t we?
ANY appointment by Bush is suspect considering the horrible choices he has made so far.
He needs to be removed from office NOW, and get someone in there who can turn this train wreck around.
Doug: I guess you “get it hard” calling names. Whatever. I’m 60 years old, Jewish and I know what a war criminal is … Bob’s not one of them. Continuing a conversation with somebody who’s only interested in calling names is “contra”-productive. All I started out to do was let people who were interested know that he is a real person, cares about his country, and will do one hell of a lot better job than Rummy.
bush is only beginning to get the message. He needs some more re-inforcing.
The Senate should deny him this appointment.
PMom: I love ya’, but Bush is the President … whether we like it or not. He makes these appointments, and he’s right about this one, hon’!
rm6046,
“[Bush] makes these appointments, and he’s right about this one, hon’!”
Yeah, just like he was right about appointing Rumsfeld. /sarcasm
“Were the Contras any better? Apparently so, since they just re-elected what’s-his-name”
The guy they just re-elected is Ortega – the president the contrs/terrorists were fighting against.
Above I referred to the overthrow of democarcy Allende to install dictator Pinochet. And the dictator Shah was installed after we overthrew the democracy in Iran. The Shah’s brutal CIA-sponsored dictatorship paved the way for Ayatollah Khomeini.
rm6046: It is very interesting that you personally know the Secretary of Defense designate. I’ll look forward to your observations for this unique viewpoint as Mr. Gates is confirmed and starts trying to unravel the Gordian Knot that is Iraq.
I do hope that Gates can get this mess that Bush deliberately created solved.
As if there was a solution to “this mess”. I’m suspicious of any Bush appointment. Let’s not forget that Bush is the bastard who gave us Rumsfeld and Bolton just to name a couple.
There was a time long ago that I was a proud republican. Now, I consider them the party of criminals and I want to see the investigations begin.
rm thanks for loving me : ). If this plays out, your fellow here has the chance to bring home the glory and be credited for turning around this war.
I hope to god for our sake, that you are right. We’ll have to wait and see.
According to cnn.com, the Senate Armed Services Committee voted unanimously to send Mr. Gates’ nomination to the full Senate for approval.
I think that any questions concerning Mr. Gates’ involvement with Iran/Contra were likely answered in the confirmation hearings when he was appointed CIA Director by Bush 41; at least, that’s how I read it.
rm,If memory serves, the contras were financing their little killing spree with drug money as well as U.S. tax money, and the CIA under your friend Gates was involved in smuggling them into the U.S. up to its eyeballs.Your friends were honorable people in the same sense that Don Corleone was! You need to get some better friends.
I am not surprised that they approved him. ANYTHING will be better than Rummy.
Apart from nominating that drug smuggling war criminal Gates what other war criminals has Bush relied on in the past?
Hmmmm, Henry Kissinger, the guy who thought bombing Cambodia was a great idea even though Cambodia never did anything against the U.S. But he’s Jewish so I guess that makes him exempt from war crimes according to Hitlerite rm6046.
You know, ol’ Rummy can’t go to Germany because he’ll be arrested on put on trial for war crimes.
Anyone else?
I forgot to add, since rm6046 won’t respond to the question, can anybody else answer why going to northern Oklahoma is a good justification for slaughtering 60,000 people?
I bet Gates refreshing candor would have come to an abrupt halt, if they had turned the questions to Iran/Contra gate.
The sentiment here is a little hot for my taste. Can either side take some pride that a young man grew up, went to East High School and will be the next Secretary of Defense. I think the CIty and State should take some pride in this great accomplishment. Now back to the name calling.
Great Job !
Bob Gates
Since Doug and allies have decided that it doesn’t matter, that Bob is a criminal and a traitor, etc., I’m just tired of arguing with their ilk. I hope like hell Bob can make some sense out of this quagmire, and get us the fuck out. He’s being unfairly judged because he’s a Republican. And Doug, Northern Oklahoma was just a question regarding your ability to assess the real world. Get the fuck over it.
Doug: If your accusations against Gates had any basis in reality, don’t you think it just might have come up in the hearings? How do you explain a unanimous approval vote by the Senate Armed Services Committee?Maybe they don’t have all the information that you are privy to.
Thanks Vaughn, Jim and Out. Glimmers of light in the darkness of ignorance. Whatever happened to benefit of the doubt, for God’s sake?
I listed to the Senate committee questioning of Gates at times today. It was broadcast on NPR. The whole thing sounded like a love fest. The guy was able to give both Kennedy and Lieberman the answers they wanted — that alone should make one suspicious.
I think that there was so much Rumsfeld fatigue, that even Voldemort himself would look pretty good by comparison.
There is no doubt that there is involvement from Gates on Iran Contra, and that he did, in fact, advocate for bombing Nicaragua, against the democratically elected government there.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gates
I do not know why everyone is not addressing the Iran Contra affair, and his involvement. Maybe because no charges were brought against him personally.
I heard no questions about Iran-Contra on NPR’s broadcast. Gates could have stripped down naked and started performing lewd acts with teenage pages and the good Senators would have said, “Well, at least he’s not Rumsfeld!”
It has to be a dream to get to follow Rumsfeld in any job.
I think you’re right Steven. That’s likely why he isn’t given such a hard time.
Just get him in there to do the job and hope that he doesn’t try some crazy crap. Hopefully he learned his lesson from Iran Contra, and now is the time when it REALLY matters the most to us.
Let’s just give him a chance. I’ll be the first “mea culpa” if he fails. And actually, Steven, I agree that it has to be a “shot in the arm” to follow Rummie, but now, he gets to prove it. Let him.
Following Rumsfeld has to be like following a country singer at a rap concert – anything you do has to be better than the guy before you.
I am not a fan of Gates, by any means, but there is absolutely nothing worse than Rumsfeld.
At this point, I am willing to give Bob Gates the benefit of the doubt – he has about five minutes to show me that he has the (insert)to stand up to Bush, the Sequel…..
Every Democrat on that commitee should be demoted when the comittees are reorganized after the takeover.
Sheesh do they KEEP having to give the frat boy everything and everyone he asks for??!
I’m ashamed the sonofabitch is from Wichita.
Gates is far better than Rumsfeld, and perhaps he can keep the Shrub from shooting us in the foot!Again!Like he did our collective wallets!
The number of honest and competent people that can stand the aroma coming out of the Whte House has to be a hell of a short list!
WS: That’s five minutes more than the rest of these yahoos are willing to give him. Small favors are still favors.
I don’t know why the Senate Armed Services Committee decided to support a war criminal and a hater of democracy to the position of Secretary of State. Perhaps it’s the same reason they supported Donald Rumsfeld who happily gave WMD to Saddam Hussein to use against his own people. Perhaps they Democrats didn’t want to be abused by the corporate press for being obstructionist despite the fact the Republicans weren’t labeled such when they often blocked Clinton’s nominees.
Perhaps another question is why the press is treating a war criminal so lightly. The Eagle slobbers over him like they do insane theocrat, cult member Brownback. Maybe they just don’t like the fact Kansas is home to crazies like BTK, Fred Phelps, Operation Rescue that they wanted to make one bloodthirsty criminal actually look a bit more decent.
Another question might be why rm6046 thinks northern Oklahoma is representative of the “real world” and Kansas is just some fantasy land. Maybe I shouldn’t taunt stupid people like rm6046 any further, he drools on his bib when I mock him and his criminal friends.
rm – the crimes attributed to him is support of the Contra terrorists who killed thousands. That said, I think there is so much fatigue with Rummy that the Senators will go with anyone to replace him. In effect, they are saying “bygones be bygones”. I, too, hope that he finds a way to extricate my country from the mess Bush has made. It should be interesting.
A side note – I wonder who in the administration leaked the Hadley and Rumsfield memos? And why?
Yeah Doug. Kansas — home of Brownback, BTK, Fred Phelps, Operation Rescue and YOU!!! It really is distressing.
Gee, such a witty comeback. Is that what they teach you in Oklahoma? When you get back from fucking your sister perhaps you’ll think of something better.
Look at how pathetic you people are. You put your faith in American politicians while criticizing me for believing in an “invisible man.” You want me to trust in a politician to deliver the goods they say they’ll give us? Heh! I’ll take my chances with the promise of a blissful afterlife from the “invisible man” any day!
Yeah, Gates may be better than Rummy, but does that mean we should settle for next to worst? What the country needs is a miracle worker to undo the mess this administration has gotten us into. Gates may or may not have learned something from his previous misdeeds, but that’s not enough to pull the nation’s nuts out of the fire Bush built!
Yeah will, pray for God to pull us out of this mess. Pray harder, whatever you’re doing aint working.
While you’re at it, pray for God to provide for me…maybe win the lottery so I don’t have to own any responsibility for myself or my world too.
cnn.com breaking news: Senate confirms Robert Gates as Secretary of Defense.
Vote: 95-2, per NPR.
Disappointing but not unexpected.
Jon Stewart had the best take here.
There were two key questions for Gates.
1. “Are you now or have you ever been Donald Rumsfeld?”
2. “Are you sure?”
Yep, J.R. – those were the criteria for the job.
95-2 was the vote. Two no votes were republicans. Where is the liberal outrage?