Some conservative pundits are huffing about the Iraq Study Group’s recommendation that the Bush administration negotiate with Syria and Iran. But President Reagan showed that negotiating with your enemy isn’t a sign of weakness, nor does it require abandoning your ideals. As Abraham Sofaer of the Hoover Institution noted in a commentary in the Wall Street Journal: “The arguments against negotiating with Syria and Iran were also made against negotiating with the Soviet Union, and by some of the same people. . . . President Reagan challenged Soviet behavior by supporting groups fighting communist intervention, building the military, strengthening NATO, condemning human-rights violations, commencing a missile-defense program, and conveying the message of freedom in every way possible. George Shultz supported these efforts but sought to negotiate with the Soviets in an attempt to increase stability, reduce nuclear weapons, attain freedom for oppressed groups, and enhance understanding.”
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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29 Comments
“Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.” — Sun-tsu (circa 400 B.C.)
Try to read closely — “know” does not equal “negotiate”. Try “Encarta” for definitions. It might open up a brand new world for you. A couple other quotes from the ancient military statagist:
“Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first then seek to win.”
“All warfare is based on deception. There is no place where espionage is not used. Offer the enemy bait to lure him.”
Are you getting the drift now?
Actually, many times in sixty years, I have questioned whether I’m as smart as I think I am — and then, like a miracle, someone like you appears — and I realize that I don’t need to question it. Thank God for people like you — if it wasn’t for you and your ilk, how could we define the term “bad example”?
Just please don’t breed and further dilute the gene pool — we don’t need that many of you.
Every country on this planet has been our enemy at one time or another. If we didn’t work out out issues with them, where would we be now?
Oh, I’m not mad, believe me. Your witless ramblings are proving my point far better than I or 2500 years of history could. I’m sure that the last thing you unsuccessfully negotiated was a salad fork.
So you’re the troll, Kansasman. And the one from the discussion boards too.
Yeah you and your many id’s sound just as brilliant as you did there. What is the point of running people off a discussion board who want to discuss things Jumpy? What is so threatening about this to you?
“Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.” — Sun-tsu (circa 400 B.C.)Posted by: rm6046 | December 26, 2006 at 07:53 AM
I thought that was Vito Corleone?
Reagan had an equally great leader in Gorbachev. We had common ground with the USSR at that time.We don’t have anything close to common ground with Iran and Syria. It’s a waste of time as long as their leaders speak of the destruction of Israel and the Infidels (that’s us).
We DO have common ground with Iran- the people are not happy with their leader. We would do good to get in good with the opposition leaders.
So the Iranian people are not happy with their leader. And us getting in bed with him helps us with them how?
KIA: LOL, my friend. No, Vito just quoted Sun-tsu, abeit much more dramatically!
Your point is well taken, but what have we got to lose? Remember the quote is “know”, not “negotiate”. I have no problem with calling it “negotiation’, “constructive rhetoric” or whatever term melts their butter if it gains us even one shred of information which might come in handy later. And, like poker, the ultimate outcome is unknown until the last card is dealt. Knowledge is the best “hole card”.
I didn’t say anything about nookie. But hopefully undoing the bad crap that we did to them after WW2 might help.
Lets establish a working relationship, the Iranian people want more freedom. They’re ready for it.
rm6046! Oh pishaw old guy. I do not troll ever. Plenty of trolls out there. You and your girlfriend Pmom bring them out like crazy. If I wanted to troll you, I would, willingly, and unbridled. I do not ever accept email from blogs. To many unstable nuts like you out there, your girlfriend, Pmom included. How do you like being a shill for the Eagle. Does the term used and abused sound familiar. LMAO! You’re a joke. You’re posts are a joke. You are nothing, your girlfriend Pmom included.
Did ya get coal in your stocking for Christmas, Kansas Man?
“Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.” — Sun-tsu (circa 400 B.C.)
Sun-tsu didn’t have to deal with missles, atomic warheads, jet aircraft, Internet and instant communications (satellites.)
There are some things that Sun-tsu said that still hold true but not much. I remember when some “independent thinkers” tried to use the sun-tsu phrases. The War Colleges more or less to go take a flying leap into “suicide valley” as that is what they would be doing if they followed the ancient advices.
Truth is, in the reality of today, there are more liars, more deceivers and more unknowns than ever.
This sun-tsu type of thinking works best with tribal type of social beings, but fails miserably with nations.
Quote if you like, no objections from me. But to be forewarned is forearmed. :)
Given the tribal nature of the residents in Iran, Syria, Iraq, as examples, would not Sun-Tsu’s admonitions hold especially true in today’s world, JM?
Just heard on the news this morning that Iran might run out of oil in the next 10 years. If this is true, could this not be an opening of negotiation with their fellow Middle East countries?
Also, I’ve heard Israel leaders say some pretty mean stuff about Iran leaders also. For that matter, Pat Robertson, the Christian Conservative leader, has advocated for murder of foreign leaders he doesn’t like.
Do you consider Pat Robertson on the same level as Iran’s president for wanting to wipe Israel off the earth? Killing is killing – isn’t it?
Suza: No, I consider Pat Robertson on the same level as Sam Brownback, Phillkline, and Phreddphelps — one rung below the weasel faced Iranian. That could be one more thing we have in common with the Iranian people!
Suza, if what you heard is accurate, then the reserves in Iraq would be quite tempting to the Iranians, no? It would therefore seem to me that talking with them now is, as you suggest, very important.
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Cornered_Iran_Running_Out_Of_Oil_Options_State_Department_999html
That didn’t come out quite as planned, but I figure you can get there from there.
Reagan referred to the Soviet Union as the evil empire. However at the same time he talked to their leaders. And, having avenues open into that country facilitated talking to other forces there. In some ways that might have been even more important. I am still struck by the fact that, at just the right moment, Reagan reached out to the Soviets and helped them make at least a somewhat ’soft landing’ when the wall and curtain came down.
Both Syria and Iran have political movements who do not like the current status quo. However, our intransigence towars those countries actually serves to strengthen the leadership there.
For a half-century we have had a hard-line policy toward Castro. How has that worked out?
“Given the tribal nature of the residents in Iran, Syria, Iraq, as examples, would not Sun-Tsu’s admonitions hold especially true in today’s world, JM?”Posted by: Vaughn Tolle | December 26, 2006 at 11:15 AM
That might be true if we reacted to the tribal leaders or were allowed by the nations to converse with the tribal leaders.
The reality of the situation is that in general, we are not allowed to interact nor have we taken any steps to interact.
Sometimes the first duty in conversation is not who will be the first one to talk, but who will be the first one to listen.
Interesting end comment, Ben. I wonder how now, in the twilight of his days, old Fidel thinks about “betting on the wrong horse 45 years or so ago?
I think that George W. Bush has such a demeaning and arrogant manner when he spouts off about the axis of evil that he has left no exit route for the US to take. Bush has stated to ‘bring it on’ and that is pretty much black and white.
Well the Iraqi insurgents have brought it on and they are still in the fight. So what progress has really been made in Iraq?
George W. Bush just does not have the diplomacy it takes to be a great president. At least Reagan had the gift of gab – GWB just as the foot in mouth disease.
Iran, Syria and muslim nations will be crushed by European hegemony from 2010-2012.
All the players in Iraq and Afghanistan are nothing but tribal leaders. Just because you put them in a Brooks Bros. suit and a silly little hat, doesn’t change the color of the horse.
Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and most of Israel destroyed in 2008 after destruction of Dome of Rock and ensuing war.
the posting at 12:54 pm IS NOT MINE – so whoever thought they were being funny or cute – obviously just got caught!