Expanded gambling seems no more likely to clear the Legislature in 2007 than any other year, especially with the state’s improved revenue collections. Still, legislators should be pressed on why they are content to watch Kansas gambling dollars increasingly go into others’ coffers. Coming in February: a new $8 million Osage Nation casino on about 40 acres west of Bartlesville, Okla., which feasibility studies indicate will attract Kansas gamblers with its 600 gaming machines and more.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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47 Comments
Remember the Casino proposal in S.E. Kansas? Here is their answer.
Bartlesville is not on the border!
Bartlesville is about 20 miles south of Caney (not Cheney), Kansas. Named after Theodore Bartles, previously from Wyandotte County, Kansas. Wild Bill Hickok said Theodore Bartles was the only man then alive who could outdraw Hickok … fortunately they were friends. Bartlesville was headquarters of Phillips 66 Petroleum Company, which could have been located in Wichita.
Also, slightly off the subject, TWA headquarters could have been located in Wichita in the early 1930’s by Richard Robbins of Pratt, first president of TWA.
Maybe the Osage are trying to get the payments on the land that they got cheated out of, Kansas Lands that is.
JM — I believe the Osages was one of the tribes that benefitted greatly from discovery of oil on their reservation west of Barlesville. Many Osages became millionairs, as I recall the history.
In my opinion, most Indian tribes moved more or less voluntarily southward from Kansas to “Indian Territory,” Oklahoma, to get out of the path of the disruptive westward movement of so-called Euro-Americans across Kansas. Also warmer weather, more water, less booze. Many white entrepreneurs inter-married and went along particularly after oil was discovered.
JWink,
I know the history of that part of the country. My g-great Aunts were Missionary to the Osage and lived with them for 40 years. There is a lot more not written in history than was written in revisionist history.
I’ll leave it at that as it may get muddled in “who said what when” type of conversation. :)
Gambling door’s open; so let’s open it widerMuskogee PhoenixDec. 4, 2006— Gambling and the lottery in Oklahoma are not working as promised, and it’s easy to see why.
For the most part, gambling enterprises in Oklahoma target Oklahomans. They must begin drawing many more people from outside the state to bring in the revenue that was promised when we voted two years ago for the lottery and an expansion of gambling opportunities.
For those still opposed to gambling, we say we let the cat out of the bag, and we’re not going to get it back in the bag.
The thing to do now is take the next step, allow Las Vegas-style gambling in the state and contract with private interests to manage casinos as well as Native American tribes.
The main reason we say this is because gambling was supposed to enrich our educational system.
But at last count, lottery proceeds for common education made up only about 2 percent of the state-appropriated money. The total doesn’t even cover the $3,000 salary increases the Legislature and governor gave teachers this past year. The lottery money only covers about half of the pay raises.
The state also committed itself to a $500 million capital improvement bond for colleges with an annual debt service of more than $30 million to be paid by the lottery.
What will the state do when the money doesn’t come in as planned?
And then the state has received only about $30 million from 25 Indian tribes in the last two years after voters approved tribal-state gaming compacts.
THE STATE PROJECTED REVENUES WOULOD TOTAL $70 MILLION IN 2006, BUT THE TOTAL THIS YEAR WITH ONE MONTH TO GO IS ONLY $21.5 MILLION.
Clearly, we have a problem, and the problem can be fixed when Oklahoma becomes a gambling destination.
Yes, many people are crossing the Texas border and borders with other states to gamble in Oklahoma, but we believe most people who gamble here live here.
WE’RE REDISTRIBUTING A PORTION OF THE MONEY IN THE STATE, NOT BRINGING IN MUCH ADDITIONAL MONEY.
To do that we have to attract people from across the country. It’s what Las Vegas has been doing for decades very successfully.
Again, we won’t stop gambling in Oklahoma. It’s here to stay.
The question now is whether we want it to fund education like we said we wanted education funded at one time.
Many will disagree, using the evils of gambling as an argument. We agree gambling has its social negatives, but this state could be doing more to encourage responsible gaming and dealing with problem gamblers. Right now, very little is dedicated to those issues.
And our state got into the gambling game late, after other states had been in it for years. A half-hearted commitment will cost more than it’s worth.
Copyright © 1999-2006 cnhi, inc.
Compete with Vegas? I doubt it. However, I do think there is another niche they (or we) could try to exploit.
Consider Prairie Band near Topeka. 121 square miles under Nation control. Not particularly good farm land but a lot of creeks, ravines, etc. Improve game habitat and sell hunting/gambling trips. A Chicago lawyer will spend a lot of $$$ to hunt; also to gamble. Pick up the guests (lawyer and wife) at KCI and ferry to the casino/hotel. Provide Jeep, guide, and if necessary gun. Shopping trips to KC for wives. Then, at the end of the day, a hot shower, nice dinner, and the tables. Suck money out of their pockets a number of ways simultaneously.
In my opinion, the gambling issue comes down to freedom and choices by adults. It’s not about projections and revenues, it’s about me having control of my life and how I choose to spend my money.Gov’t thinks I’m responsible enough to carry a concealed weapon, but, somehow, I’m not responsible enough to put my quarter into a slot machine.Go figure.
It does come down to revenues. If the state allows more gambling they will earmark the new revenues to new projects. If the revenue runs short then there will have to be a tax increase to cover the shortfall for the program the gambling money was support to support.
It’s not all about you being responsible or not. It is promising a set amount of revenue and then when that money is not available then you have a problem for all of us taxpayers.
If people from Wichita drive to Topeka or Kansas City to gamble, they will certainly drive to Bartlesville to gamble. I just don’t see what the problem is about gambling. Either you do or you don’t. It’s like alcohol, smoking or concealed carry. Either you do or you don’t. It should be up to the individual. But Kansas is missing out on a lot of revenue because I’ve seen alot of Kansas license plates in the parking lots of alot of surrounding casinos.
Ya mean, Oklahoma hasn’t discovered the end of the rainbow in legal casinos? I’M SHOCKED!!! [that's sarcasm, folks].
Legal gambling has always been a fool’s gambit, except for the operator of the casino. Why we would want to throw our dollars to out-of-state investors is beyond me. The lottery itself is nothing more than a tax on the stupid, but if you want to give your dollars away, be my guest.The voters will ultimately decide (either directly or indirectly), and as always, we’ll abide by that decision. But democracy in its various forms only encourages popular decisions, not wise ones.
I’ll vote no, thank you.
There are people who see gambling casinos as a source of entertainment. Much like going to the arena. It should be up to the individual person to decide how to spend their money. Just because you see gambling as waste of money, some other person may see going to the arena as a waste of money. Who is correct? It’s all a matter of perception and choice.
Why doesn’t the City Council / County just allow us to Vote on the dam subject. They let us vote on the arena.
Oh yea, because the GODies thinks it will actually pass and than they wont be getting their piece of the pie.
F the Religious Right!
Whats the difference between a Casino and the Arena in Wichita?
Answer?
Wichitans actually want the Casino!
Oh, and the TAX PAYERS are NOT paying for a Casino, some Indian Tribe is!
F the religious right!
GMC70,
There is something to be said for playing a real game like Craps, or Blackjack or Poker… You just cant go down the street and find a place to do anything but Texas Hold-em (i hate that game)…
The express reason I want a casino is for someplace to play some real table games and perhaps make some money.
IF I were to go to a Casino, its to have fun… So i will budget accordingly.
F the Religious Right!
As I read the above posts, Wants to play, and others similarly situated, is seeking entertainment at a casino, and is not concerned about the “increase in tourism, outside money, etc.” arguments advanced for having a casino in Wichita. Meanwhile, others argue the economic benefits of a casino from the increased numbers of outsiders, etc.
The article from the Muskogee Phoenix points out what I consider to be the obvious: the “pot of gold” continues to shrink, as there are more alternatives for those seeking to gamble available; and those “late to the table” (pun intended) are the ones who will see a much smaller positive economic impact as the result of building casinos, etc., than what was believed.
I was an advocate of increased gaming about 10 years ago, but now am tepid about it. Reason? We’re the ones late to the table, and there will not be this sudden positive economic gain as the result thereof; the places from which Kansas, and Wichita, were looking to for the additional visitors, etc., have either: instituted their own casinos, etc., or the gamblers in those states have many more options than Vegas or Atlantic City which are more attractive destinations (than Wichita or Kansas) for reasons other than gaming, to which to travel.
If we determine that the folks looking for entertainment at a casino is all the justification needed to build one, fine; let’s not ride the economic development horse, though, to promote the same. To mix metaphors, that dog won’t hunt (any more) IMO.
VT – while you are correct I think we would at least staunch the flow of Kansas $$$ going to Oklahoma. It would also likely spell the death knell for the OK casinos on the state line.
Ben, understand the point (you left out the boats in KCMO, BTW :)). Keeping Kansas $$ in Kansas is to my mind a part of the building a casino for those who want it for entertainment argument.
The boats are several hours away from here … I’m really just looking at South-Central KS.
Yea, a casino is, I guess to some, entertainment. Let’s not imagine it is entertainment with significant social costs, however. And using one as economic development has always been a shell game, at least in Kansas. (”destination casino,” indeed!)
If the lottery is a tax on the stupid (and it is); I guess I’d call a casino the same with pretty bells and whistles. But it’s your money . . . .
As noted above; our institutions only lead (hopefully) to popular decisions, not wise ones.
should be “without significant social costs”
edit, edit, edit . . .
GMC – I hope you proof your briefs better!
;^)
The new casino just opened up south of Ark City and is getting about 2000 cars a night and from driving through the parking lots there were a huge amount of SG tags. The stream of cars coming from I-35 is upsetting the local farmers who get their equipment on the road and end up blocking long lines of cars. They are even coming in the back roads from Sumner county along the old state line roads.
Its on the old Chilocco indian school property. The site has about 10,000 acres. My mom lives down there and they are hearing a big Harrahs is looking at the site for a full blown big Casino type thingy.
Will draw a lot of money from here. The city needs to get on the political stick and get gambling here and not allow the Indian Monopoly to continue. It needs to be open to the city to put in their own or via other corporations etc. The WaterWalk should have a bignormous one in the middle.
As for the money going to certain purposes, I have found the Georgia set up quite interesting. Zell Miller as governor took the monies and put it in a fund for what are called HOPE scholarships. ANY student in a Georgia high school with a B average can use the money to go to college FREE.
Gold Mine casino. In the site of a city-owned building with G M on it already. Bet it would bring more revenues to the City than Gander Mountain does.
mrbill, I heard the same thing, but the program is limited to the state schools. I also recall hearing that there is a question of sufficient funding from the gambling revenues to sustain the program.
Off topic, a bit, I wonder if the existence of such a program will add to the grade inflation that seemingly is endemic. Perhaps a combination of high school GPA + a minimum acceptable score on ACT or SAT is a better way to set the minimum qualification for eligibility for the scholarship (assuming, of course, the GA schools do not already have such a minimum as an admission requirement).
Don’t worry, if the arena tanks it can always be converted to a casino. Perhaps a good solution would be to put slot machines in the part of the arena that serves drinks. Will the arena actually be allowed to serve alcohol is another question in itself.
Slot machines could help offset the losses the arena will get and it will help ease more of the public into accepting gambling.
It would probably help if we elected a fiscal conservative to office instead of these tax and spend Republicans like Mayans and Knight.
We already have a place for scummy white trash, chain smoking, alcoholic, toothless, people to gather….it’s called South Wichita. I don’t think we need a casino to draw more of these scumbags into our community.
How mature of you JimG – your bias would not be showing now would it?
I think the majority of voters already are comfortable with gambling and have been asking for an up or down vote for years. Why is that so difficult? Just bring it to a vote – like the arena was.
Are you allowed county by county to approve gambling vs. a state wide referendum?
California has some very interesting laws when in comes to gambling. Card Clubs. Yes. Casinos. No.None of it makes any sense.
MrK, the vote for which many are asking would be “advisory” only; it is up to the State Legislature to amend our statutes to permit a casino in Wichita. The reason there is the call for a vote is the Governor indicated some time ago that she would not press for expanded gaming for Wichita without the city asking for it.
VT – like the multiple Arena votes were advisory allowing the legislature to enable the tax. Difference is, this would pass by a large margin the first time.
Ben, exactly.
MrK, to amplify a bit, Kansas does not have an initiative and referendum process as does California; as close as we come is a statute allowing a city ordinance to be proposed by petition, which if the conditions thereof are met, is put to a vote. Gaming issues would not be subject to the ordinance approach, unless the city could figure a way to exempt itself from the general Kansas law thereon under its so-called “Home Rule” powers. I will not go further on this, as I don’t think there is enough space to try to explain all that. :D
California has card rooms instead of casinos because card games like poker and blackjack are games of skill not just pure luck like say a slot machine. Also wichita has several card rooms it just has to be creative on how it runs volutary “chair rentals” for poker tournaments for example.
I heard an ad today for poker tournaments with a cash jackpot. So, they must have some sort of legal system.
What’s wrong with bias when the outcome is predictable. If we get a casino near Wichita we’ll attend the place and if you have any self respect…you’ll run right home and shower. Why? Because scumbags from the poor neighborhoods drag themselves out into public. They’ll have their favorite Toby Keith T-shirt, their cigarettes, their broken teeth smiles, their spindly morbid nicotine thin bodies, drinking booze, and walking around with their buckets of coins.You damn right I am biased. Have you ever shopped at the Pawnee/Broadway Walmart? This is the same experience.That’s not immaturity…that’s reality.Vote no. Jesus, please, vote no.
Wow you are dropping respectability points today Jim G. Are you being trolled or are you basically a jerk?
I still say that the best place for a Casino would be at the Broadview. I would add on to the north of the hotel a large, multi story Casino, meeting rooms and more rooms…
A casino that size could probably serve the south-central Kansas area which is its likely drawing area.
BTW – I have visited a few casinos, largely out of curiousity (and also to eat) and did not see what Jim G refers to.
Once again the question of casino or no casino is before us. There will be heated debate, pro and con. Many folks will expound about the wonders of a casino, and all the wonderful things that it will bring to the state, county and city. While others will paint a picture of pure horror, broken lives and shattered families and so forth. And do not forget that “those kind” of people will be there. The sad thing is that you all are correct. My wife and I like to travel when we can and we like to gamble when we can. To date we have been in 63 different casinos in a variety of states and Canada. We enjoy the gambling. (just bring what you can afford to lose, please), the entertainment, if offered. The food. The best meals I have ever enjoyed have been at casinos. Often time comped by the casino. If you watch you will see the very best in people and the very worst. Just EXACTLY like any other large gathering of people. So say what you want about casinos, it is probably true in one form or another. But I do know this. The only way that they will be a benefit to the fine folks in Kansas is if they are allowed to build more than one (competition) and except for a regulatory commission, the state of Kansas keeps it nose out of them. Let them be privately owned and privately run.
With the city elections just around the corner, and the lottery up for renewal, Wichita stands to find itself locked out of any expansion on gaming for decades.
Every proposal to expand gaming in Kansas that has had any serious debate in the legislature places a moratorium on a casino in Wichita for at least 10 years. The reason is simple: Wichita and Sedgwick county leaders are scared to death of the conservative bloc and place the political interest of their careers ahead of the economic and political interest of the voters.
If the issue were placed on the ballot it is a “sure bet” that the voters would approve of a casino by an overwhelming margin. That would put the conservatives in a real political bind. Would they represent the stated interest of the electorate or would they vote their own opinion?
“it is a “sure bet” that the voters would approve of a casino by an overwhelming margin.”
DING DING DING
WE HAVE A WINNER!
“That would put the conservatives in a real political bind.”
This is the exact problem with the degenerates we have in office.
Vote them all out. Get someone in there with some common since.
Do you, a friend, or loved one have a gambling problem? Bartlesville Gamblers Anonymous is a great place to start on the road to recovery. Meetings are every Tuesday, 7pm, at the First Church of the Nazarene, located at 3650 SE Adams Blvd. For more information, call 333-3857 or visit http://www.freewebs.com/bartlesvillega.
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