Here are the essential reasons little happens on immigration reform, Wall Street Journal columnist Peggy Noonan wrote: “Businesses want low-wage workers; intellectuals are wed to global visions of cross-border prosperity; politicians want Hispanic loyalty and the Hispanic vote.” Another reason is that politicians get stuck trying to agree on long-term, comprehensive answers, rather than taking incremental steps. “They are like people in a burning house who sit around discussing the long-term efficacy of various kinds of water hoses while the house burns down around them.”
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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84 Comments
It’s the vote more than companies want the low-wage labor that’s for sure.
What is funny is that Republican seriously think they will get the Hispanic vote by being soft on immigration and passing amenisty? Get real! Most Hispanics coming from leftist corrupt regimes don’t know anything but leftist politics! Their vote is going towards the Democrats and the Dems know it and love it.
It’s the vote more than companies want the low-wage labor that’s for sure.
What is funny is that Republican seriously think they will get the Hispanic vote by being soft on immigration and passing amenisty? Get real! Most Hispanics coming from leftist corrupt regimes don’t know anything but leftist politics! Their vote is going towards the Democrats and the Dems know it and love it.
The word “emergency” is not in the GW Bush lexicon. As evidence, witness: illegal immigration, civil war in Iraq, hurricane in New Orleans. QED
The concept of sanity is totally foreign to Joe W. - see above post. QED
steven-Joe is correct. Every point true.
Thanks for the reality check, Mr. Fleettwood. You’ll pardon me, I hope, if I hold out for a difference source on that subject.
Then, what is not true?Repubs think pandering to Hispanics will get their vote. Hasn’t happened.They vote heavily Democrat.QED
As is always true in life - follow the money.
This is the only reason nothing will be done about illegal immigration. It is corporations thinking only of their bottom line and the politicians are in the backpockets of these corporations.
So, bottom line - it is about the money and nothing else.
But what is funny is that at some point, all the cheap labor will be exploited and there will be no more consumers in the US to purchase their crap.
Typical Lib, anti-capitalist blather. Politicians in the back pocket of corporations?Show me the proof!
I think this is one of those issues that will have real bi-partisan support or non-support. Currently our illegal workers are the biggest boon to the economy to the economy south of the border. Over 30 BILLION dollars is sent there annually for the families left behind. That is why the Mexican government is issuing manuals on how to enter the US illegally. The politicians who want to make them legal have not even considered the impact on our Social Security System. A system already in crisis. Without illegals using our government funded health system/emergency rooms via the welfare system more money would be available for our own uninsured. Everyone knows the burden that has been placed on our own education system because of the need to teach to students who use spanish as a first language. All of this said I’m not sure which parties plan I would support. We can’t send them all home. They are a vital part of our work force. More planning needs to go into a pro-rated system to include them in our benefit plans. Failure to do so will eventually bankrupt SS as well as our current health system.
If you check “K” Street in DC, you’ll find an infestation of lobbyists- they aren’t there for the scenery!
And they don’t stay by not getting results– big-time!
And who signs their paychecks?
P.S.- I’m an Independent.
gster-Lobbyists does not equal corruption. It’s a logical false leap.Independent = Muddle headed
What was the name of the big lobbyist on his way to the Federal slammer, Jack Ab….. come on - you’ll get it!He didn’t get a Humanitarian award, at least by me.
“It’s a logical false leap”. I think what ever in the hell this term means must define most of your posts.Or maybe vertigo.
He is in jail. That’s how it works.The NEA, unions, civil rights groups, welfare groups, pro-choice groups all have lobbyists. Would you have it any other way?
It’s buisnesses that are responsible for illegal immigrants. They are the draw. The Republican party is the party of buisiness.
Folks, get behind the mule please.We need to take incremental steps to closing the border. Once the border is closed all the king’s horses and all the king’s men will finally be happy because they won’t be forced to take sides anymore.Sometimes it is necessary to think for the politicians because their loyalties lie with money, not rational solutions.We are the greatest and richest nation in the universe. We can build a wall, we can staff the wall, and we can end this problem of 3rd world intrusion.We have a legal process that allows immigrants to come to this country. We may need to fine tune it so it doesn’t end up having 50 que ups.Get behind the mule and let’s get this done.
The amount of lobbyists and the number of “ear marks” or pork, have gone up exponentially during the Bush admin. They are not all either good or bad, but I doubt they all are doing you or me any good.
I’d like term limitations on the Congressional clowns, and have them clearly identify themselves as the authors of ear marks, which is in the works, I think.
The system is clearly out of balance and needs something; we can’t keep trying to build “Bridges to Nowhere”!
jr-You are batting .500In baseball, that would put you in the Hall of Fame.The illegals are responsible for the illegals.The Republican party IS the party of business.What does that make the Democrats?I’ll say it again. Anti-capitalists.
Jack Abramhoff will tell you (and has been singing like a bird) that his majority of politicians on his take were Republicans! Why? because they were the party in power and with TOTAL control of Congress - the Republicans ran ramshod over anybody and everybody.
If you think corporations do not have politicians in their backpockets then you must believe what the big oil companies executives say about their record profits. And, of course, I’m sure you are not a part of the problem by being one of their shareholders - right?
Illegals would not be coming to the US without the expectation of getting jobs from employers willing to break our immigration laws by hiring them.
No jobs - no illegals. How hard is that to understand?
I’m all for Capitalism but not at the expense of the rest of the country. Just how does a corporation measure success? If a company is budgeted to make 50 million dollars profit and they only make 49 million dollars - on paper that company will state they “lost” that year. That’s hogwash! That company still made a profit of 49 million dollars. It is greed pure and simple and that is what is tearing down our country.
Who are these politicians you speak of in the “back pocket”? Or are you just blabbering?Many, many companies are having record profits. I think that is good. You, being the anti-capitalist, think that is bad.And yes, I have several hundred shares of Phillips/Conco stock.
Thinking that all hispanics support the illegal alien is nonsense. The Repubs seem to think they will garner their support by being lax on the illegals.
Arizona had several Propositions this election that severely reduced state welfare type programs and legal actions available to illegals such as no right to punitive damages in lawsuits brought by illegals etc.
These Propositions received 47% support by the local indigenous Hispanic voters to crack down on illegals. They are smarter than their elected officials in seeing these illegals affect their existing jobs and quality of living also.
The best way to thwart some of this illegal activity is to tax the remittances at the money wiring (laundering) factility before it leaves the state and to put some high profile employers in jail.
Many states now require ALL employers to actually verify the SS# given when employing someone through the Feds SAVE program. It lets you put in a SS# and see if it matches the actual name you are given. Some 10,000 business now use it for EVERYONE they employee to make sure the rights appeasement groups dont hit you with a Discrimination crapshoot.
Starbucks now checks every employee.
Business should also be required to take action after posting SS withholding to the Feds and then receiving a notice of NO MATCH from the SS administration for their witholding.
suza-That company would state that they made less than expected. Not lost money.And it’s not greed. No guns were pulled out to get their money. they sold something at a profit that somebody wanted to pay for.Unlike the goverment, they earned it.
Remember, folks, that the publicly held corporations have a duty to their shareholders to maximize the value of their investment. Once upon a time, that included long range, that is, greater than one year, goals; however, the investing public, including pension funds, insurance companies as well as “natural persons” have become fixated on immediate returns, such that it appears to me that “quarterly” has become long term.
Unless and until the owners, that is, the shareholders, demand that other “costs”, such as the externalized costs of hiring low wage, illegal alien, foreign, etc., workers, be taken into account, a corporation which can “get away with it” is going to either outsource its labor or hire such workers to reduce the direct labor costs reflected on the income statement to maximize its profits.
Isn’t it amazing how our rhetoric has become so divisive -1)if you are not in favor of prayer in school - the right labels you anti-god, and anti-traditional values2) if you think corporations need more accountabilty you get labeled an anti-capitalist3) if you think the war in Iraq is wrong - the Vice Pres., Rush Limbaugh and others label you as unpatriotic and value less4) If you are republican the democrats will label you as a racist and an anti-environmentalist5) If you are democrat the republicans will label you as godless and pro-tax.
It’s all horse-shit. I would like to see ‘a’ party get back to the basics - focus on the constitution - if the constitution defines it - that’s the definition - if it don’t - we have to work together.Will someone please stand up in both major parties and tell the religious right that they should count their blessings instead of trying to force their ideal on everyone.If the church is open on Sunday - people will go to it - if they choose to.That’s as simple as it needs to be. Ralph Reed’s name didn’t get drug through the dirt like it should of when he was found out to be a money grubbing weasel taking dollars from gambling.Righteousness never holds up - look at Bush and his foreign policy - look at Ralph Reed of Rev. Ted Haggard, look at Mark Foley, look at Newt Gingrich, look at the failure brought on by righteousness. The reason Karl Rove is still around is because he is a lying weasel who does a great job of making others seem righteous.We all want to vote for someone who seems greater than our own selves. Heck, if someone were truly righteous - they would get everyone’s vote. But being truly righteous means taking on the form of Jesus - and that ain’t happening.Just watch Barrak Obama - he is so new - he seems like a solid almost righteous leader - his star will fall too.Bill Clinton was never righteous and he proved that. George Bush believes he is righteous and the rest of us can see that he is hollow.I abhor that our country would ascend a man who stopped drinking at age 40, found Jesus, and decided he wanted to be president. This is what playing righeous can do for someone - Bush fooled his own party. He fooled the religious right.He was the son of a president and the son of money - and a self-professed born again - who quit boozing at age 40, not age 22, but age 40. I don’t give a shit how royal your blood is….you cannot be the president after waking up from a 20 year binge.But we made the guy president - because he professed righteousness.If the religious right were truly about their values - they would have been the first group camping out on the Washington Mall protesting the decision to go to war. Isn’t killing each other just about the worst thing for a religious group to have to deal with?Did the religious right protest? No. Do they protest homosexuals? Yes.Who can get the votes they need to ban gay marriage? George Bush. Did he do it? No. Can he do it? No. Why? Because he is hollow and picking on gays when our county is at war is about the most awful focus aversion our leaders could take from focusing on the war. Did Bush try it? Yes he did.
Back to immigration- 2008 needs to come down to immigration and who is willing to stand up. Lou Dobbs and Pat Buchanan seem to have the best policy advise out there.
No, beg to differ with you fleetwood - that company would report it as a loss for that year. I’ve worked in corporate accounting and I know how they work their books.
Why do you give such carte blanche to every corporation? Why do you support their greed and pulling out a gun does not prove it is their greed working.
Pulling out a gun is robbery - greed is always wanting more than you have. These are two entirely different issues.
I am not anti-capitalist. I just do not believe that the corporations should rule the entire country.
I’ve posted the idea about heavily taxing wire transfers to Mexico mr.bill. It’s a good idea.
I agree with you Jim G, 100% percent.
JR,Interesting point. Money is getting pumped out daily, we might as well earn a tax on it….but would need to tax everybody in all directions.If Wester Union knows the guy is illegal who wants to send money - he should be arrested…lol.I say close the borders - whoever is here gets to stay. Don’t tell them this up front or the influx will be huge.I have worked with illegal Hispanics - some get caught, some don’t. The humanity I feel being face to face prevents me from taking a view that we should force them out. I just cannot see true Americans booting millions of people out of our country. I can see us securing the border and allowing legal entry.
What will these corporations do when they have exploited all the possible illegals and/or outsourced all their jobs and then when they send their products back to the US for the Americans to purchase their crap - the average American can not buy the product because that person no longer has a job?
So, corporations had better start thinking in the long term. You can only get so much water from the sponge and you cannot get blood from a turnip.
All good points Jim G.
Lucee the corps and their shareholders aint thinking that far ahead. They are about the day to day value of shares not the outlook for the future of their company…or their country.
Exactly, JR, and that is what is troublesome. The motto “I’ll get mine before anyone else” seems to be the catch phrase?
Listen to you people! It’s all about hating businesses who employ people. They are not evil.
fleetwood- do you think corporations have a responsibility to be good citizens? Just wondering.
I am 38, quit drinking at age 34, am a liberal democrat, pro business/pro business accountability/pro immigration reform/pro Constitution/pro freedom of speech/ pro common sense.I sometimes overeat and my Dad is middle class rich. I grew up on a farm. I have occasional outbursts of anger when dealing with deceptive people. I am spiritual, not religious. I like the idea of focusing our country’s energy on producing smart stable children. I am pro-gun, not pro conceal/carry, not pro automatic weopans, not pro assualt weopons….just want folks to have guns to hunt with and for home protection…not too difficult to understand.I am pro-asking the citizens for tax help when our country is in a bind. I love transparency. I am for prison reform, including privatization option to deal with non-violent drug offenders.I am pro-equality - just like the constition says. I am pro-bible in the church and in the home.I am pro-marriage for all. I am pro-golden rule.I have a child out of wedlock. I have really wonderful honest friends. I have little use for lobbyists. I don’t care if my friends are rich or poor…just care that they are okay.I want every child to have rights that extend beyond their home so we assure their protection and safety. I want teacher reform - raise the bar, raise the pay.I want to shut the gov. down, the schools down, and ask our businesses to shut down two days per year to help our country grow beyond racism. We cannot expect just the parents to raise their children without racism - we have to expect our country to raise our children without racism. These two days would be interactive role-playing initiatives to make sure a whole school of white kids in rural Kansas gets to visit a inner city school of mostly black kids..or other races…and vice versa.What exactly is wrong with any of that and why don’t we hear our leaders saying the same things.Jim G. for Pres. - 08, Sober, Common, and Poor.
I have no problem with any company making as much profit as they can, after all, that is the American way.
What I do have a problem with is the way they go about doing their business. If they break the immigration laws, lay off employees just to make the remaining employees work harder to make up the difference and then to constantly threaten the remaining employees with their jobs - that is not good business.
I want any company to be a good steward of the environment, be good to their employees and actually have some pride in achieving the company’s goals through “teamwork”. And when the goal is accomplished - don’t just give the big bonus to the big fat cats - share the wealth with all employees.
That is what is missing today in the business world - that feeling of teamwork and loyalty. Those two things right there could make a whole world of difference in today’s society.
What is wr
suza-What could be “good” citizen” that putting people to work, paying lots of taxes and making people “happy” to by whatever it is they are selling?Business is not in it for their health.
correction - last line should’ve been “what is wrong with this expectation”
Fleetwood - we must not be communicating because your definition of a good citizen is not mine.
My point is that business profit at all costs does not usually mean employing lots of people and paying lots of taxes. If so, then illegal immigrants would not be an issue?
Again, if these businesses are laying off employees and/or outsourcing emloyees - how can their employees be buying the products?
There is more to life than money and there is more to a country than just big business making record profits.
suza-Kumbaya, baby.
Lucee,I agree that companies do misuse their labor from a fairness and respect point of view. One thing to keep in mind is that business do not survive when their complete focus is on the bottom line. It is true the emotions of being an employee and getting laid off or have your hours cut, or have your hours increased in the name of cost restructuring may feel unfair and cold, but it the nature of business. These organizations are not humanistic structures - they are cost structure. The most controllable cost in most businesses is labor. Restructuring labor takes place every day.I was formerly a production manager. I tried very hard to never have to lay a person off…but sometimes it was unavoidable. I tried very hard to find work for people to do when times were slow.Truth - I did not perform my job as best I could because I was focused more on the people than the dollar cost.When the operating reports come out each week - employee names are absent - what you read is the amount of budgeted labor alloted vs. the amount of actual labor used. If you go over budget - you have to fix it. This is how companies survive.Is it possible that some companies can find the right ratios to come up with a cost sinking fund that helps get through the hard times? Maybe. But ultimately, the coporate structure for success does not include budgeting to hold dollars to help employees through the hard times…that would cost too much and would ultimately lead to business failure.Business genereally try to provide a cost-of-living increase each year. Taxes are paid to support unemployment. Employees are responsible for saving their money for hard times.Our elected leaders control the minimum wage.Businesses as social programs never works. I know I mentioned in an earlier email that I would call for two days of downtime each year for training and awareness to race issues - I would ask businesses to participate through donation, through hosting, through sponsorship, etc. I think this country still has one great big hump we need to get over and that is racism. By getting business involved it also sends them a message that as our young people grow we will be eradicating institutionalized racism.For this social program - I think a collective energy both public and private is worth the push.thanks
correction -’when their complete focus is not on their bottom line”
Back to the topic for a moment. Any business found to have illegals in their employ should be fined. Period. There are plenty of legals that can and should be hired. If you can’t make a profit by playing within the rules, you shouldn’t be playing.
Fleettwood -that policy would have been nice to have started 20 years ago. I think it is too late. Too many illegals are impacting our GDP, CPI.Start with closing the border - then offer businesses incentives to bring illegals forward so they can be assessed as citizenship worthy or sent back due to criminal backgrounds, etc. Incentives will purk the ears of business.
jim g-You would have business do the job that the goverment should be doing? If business won’t hire illegals, the illegals will leave.
Fleetwood,I think business has let their cost infrastructure meld with illegal pay….in the long run I think pulling them out and/or fining the business will hurt our economy. Incentives do not have to be monetary, but most are.How about a deal that encourages the businesses to report illegals but they can keep the employee while the assessment period is happening….rather than to arrest the illegal and fine the business.
…..this would also keep some stability in the illegal persons life…and the ones who flee probably have something to hide anyway.
The question was what politicans benefitted from a big biz relationship?Cheney’s Halliburton stock options rose 3,281% last year, senator findsRAW STORY
Print This | Email This
An analysis released by a Democratic senator found that Vice President Dick Cheney’s Halliburton stock options have risen 3,281 percent in the last year, RAW STORY can reveal.
Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) asserts that Cheney’s options — worth $241,498 a year ago — are now valued at more than $8 million. The former CEO of the oil and gas services juggernaut, Cheney has pledged to give proceeds to charity.
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Cheneys_stock_options_rose_3281_last_1011.html
Charity starts at home.
jim g-I think the harm to the economy would be very short term, if at all. The ones hired to replace them would work for the same money (or very close).The reporting part of your post sounds like a nightmare. I keep having a problem with that pesky “illegal” part. I have very little concern with the stability of the ILLEGAL. They made the choice to come here, illegally. Sometimes one has to live with making the wrong choice.They should have gotten in line like many, many others have.
http://www.washtimes.com/business/20060417-115220-9657r.htm
Illegal aliens recruit workersBy Julie Watson and Olga R. RodriguezASSOCIATED PRESSApril 18, 2006
SASABE, Mexico — A growing number of U.S. employers in need of cheap labor are turning to illegal workers to recruit friends and relatives back home, and to smugglers to find job seekers.”It continues to become clear who controls immigration: It’s not governments, but rather the market,” said Jorge Santibanez, director of the Tijuana think tank Colegio de la Frontera Norte.When Pedro Lopez Vazquez crossed illegally into the United States last week, he already had a job.His future employer even paid $1,000 for a smuggler to help Mr. Vazquez make his way from the central Mexican city of Puebla to Aspen, Colo.
Fleet,Yes, from afar it seems logical to show little humanitarian concern for someone breaking a law however, these folks are breaking a law written by our country’s leaders…not their countries leaders. And, if I am poor and hungry, be damned with trespessing laws..I am going to get in your garden and eat your food. Given that I have worked face to face and developed friendships with illegal immigrants I think my perspective is softened. I worry about the children who are along for the ride…the chaos must be damaging already, without government enforcement of the law.However - I think you make some very valid points and I would respect our country’s populist position either way. I really truly believe we need to close the border. first.
Tax Western Union transfers?HELL NO.You will NOT tax what you have already taxed…my hard earned money that I am sending to my fiancee, who, by the accident of her birth does not yet live in our country.Tax instead all the things that take jobs away from Americans… like voice mail. South Dakota now has a fine of up to $500,000 if a company cannot provide a “real person” option within 30 seconds.
Employers want cheap labor so they can line their own pockets with dough on the backs of slave wages.
It is CHEATING the market to go hiring illegals to do your work. You’re getting a payment at American value in dollars, but not paying the labor worth.
Jim pardon me for asking a really stupid question. If I go to Mexico and break one of their laws but what I did wasn’t against the law in the United States they wouldn’t throw me in one of their jails? Dream on man. I know illegals also and some are very hard workers. That doesn’t give them a free pass over the person waiting patiently in line legally to get in the US.
I have spoken to several Hispanics, a good many of them do not trust Republicans or Democrats parties.Most are more for an Independent/Centrist party; they know all too well that a solid party representation is an untrustworthy representation; they know this by their own experiences from their own country but were not given those choices.Everyone knows that loyalty to big businesses is unrealistic, even the most ignorant illegal workers know this.The Centrist party is still growing and will succeed the other two parties.Trust is a powerful tool but not knowing what your trust is in, is a more powerful tool.
lucee,
I agree 100% that if things continue (outsourcing & use of illegals for larger corp profits), there’ll be few left to buy products and services. Greed has blinding too many, and they don’t bother to look at what could happen in the future.
Another thought I’ve had is that the offspring of illegals and even some illegals themselves will tire of their lower wages and want to better themselves, employment-wise and financially. Especially those “anchor babies.” They won’t be happy earning what their parents did. That would be natural.
So where does that leave everyone? With even more competition for fewer jobs.
Perhaps when we Boomers start retiring, there will be more jobs available for the younger generations. They’ll be filling the positions we’ve held, and that “should” pay for our SS. *wink*
RD, you make a serious point; as we Boomers retire, there seemingly will be more jobs than replacements in the labor force. Unfortunately, many of these jobs will require a higher level of technical skill and general education than what I see the replacement pool possessing, be they illegals or citizens. This will, I fear, add impetus to outsourcing more jobs, or greater pressure on the government to allow additional immigration from the “right” countries with highly skilled citizens.
[Rant] Just how damn many folks with Sports Management degrees do we need in this country? Meanwhile, I am told research grants in the natural sciences, engineering, etc., are being lost because there are not enough qualified undergrads pursuing these fields, thus leading to a shortage of graduate students to do the research, which then increases the demand from the universities for increased international students to take these positions. Where did it become (to borrow a marketing phrase) “man law” that pursuing studies in these disciplines was “not cool”, or too hard, or whatever? [/Rant]
The idea of a voting Hispanic population is a long way away, a generation at least I’d say.I live in a community in California that I’ve said before is 45% hispanic (83% of these are Mexican decent).Of this 45% only 5% are registered to vote. I’m not positive how many of the 45% is of voting age.
Boomers aren’t exactly leaving behind 5 dollar an hour jobs.
And outsourcing is taking the rest of the middle class jobs.
Ksgrm,They are breaking a law that is not enforced. If you go to Mexico and break a law that is not enforced you’ll probably experience the same amount of freedom illegals experience in this country.You can’t let everyone board the ship, go out to sea, and then check for tickets to board, and those without get tossed in the sea.This is a political mess and your frustration with immigrants here illegaly seems to want to punish the person, not the system.This is still the America that opened it’s wings to our forefathers so many years ago.We have to enforce the law at the border first. What happens now is we apprehend, send them back, and a week later they come across the same border.They contribute to our economy. They are a problem as a whole, but as people they are not murderers or theives, they are people wanting a better life by working for it.It all needs to start at the border.As for companies lining their pockets with profits off illegal labor - you can be sure the CPI will rise when Americans have to fill all the open positions…for more pay.Let’s not spend our time worrying about the illegal people…they didn’t start this - we did. We are America and we didn’t close our border. We cannot sit on a perch and deny freedom and prosperity if we are not willing to do the tough job of closing the entire border. It’s inhumane to rip people from their lives, to rip children from a better life.
Jim, are you part of the blame America first crowd. I love what came out of the 911 commission - we need to improve the image of the United States all over the globe. We are a prosperous nation that is always first in line to help after a tradgedy - where was the rest of the world after Katrina? We have given more to fund AIDS research than any other nation. We ship tons of foods to improvished countries - and now it is our fault that illegals are finding their way into our country uninvited. If the will is strong enough they will find a way into the US fence or no fence. Should we station sharp shooters on the borders to take them out before they reach safe haven? Of course not. What we can do is stop rewarding their law breaking. No free health benefits. Stop changing our school system to match their skills - they don’t learn english - they can’t communicate. Don’t give them amnesty free and clear with instant access to all of our social programs. There is no free lunch anymore. In no way does this equate to the legal immagration our forefathers experienced when they came in through Ellis Island and helped to build the nation we have today.
Let’s just build some new border towns for illegal immigrants only. Free medical care, free school, free food warehouses and free lodging with wages on their job.
Wait, nevermind…that already happens.
Jim G
I am not without compassion for these people. But the fact of it is they are failing their own country.
Mexico is corrupt from top to bottom. It best resembles a feudal state where those with money and power hold and accumuulate more of that money and power to themselves.
Sort of like where the US is headed. The presence of the illegals only speeds our own travel in that direction.
They have fled their failed nation instead of addressing its problems and demanding change. In fact, the funds they send home account for Mexico’s #1 source of income. They are not just failing to fix their country. They are funding its continued failure.
Mexico needs change and it cannot change if the Mexicans are not there to do it.
I actually agree with Ksgrm on this one. There is a reason they’re coming here. Many are very hard working individuals trying to make a better life for themselves, I don’t fault them for that. If I were a Mexican I’d likely do the same thing.
However, they need to go back and make change in their own nation.If they want a better life, fight for it on their own soil.
If you really want to come here and become an American citizen, I’m fine with that too, as long as the process is legal.
The thing about shipping them all back home, maybe they’ll actually be angry enough to enact change at home.
Ksgrm,I don’t disagree with you but I think America does have all the blame for this. We let them in. We spend very little money enforcing the law in comparison to all the money we spend for their social needs.As for a border fence - I’m not talking barb-wire; I’m talking BIG. Something uncrossable will dramatically reduce illegal immigration.Again, it starts at the border - requiring payment to people who have little money will ultimately lead to disgrace. Health care is a human right…and if the illegals show up at a hospital door…we have to help them.Again, the goal should be to stop them from crossing the border.I am also against worker-visa’s - it creates a 2nd class citizen out of the worker, which leads to caste issues, racism, exclusion, all the things we don’t need any more of in America.
Change of subject - quick -
Today I read on-line two horrifying stories:1) a mother is being charged with the murder of her 3-week old baby. She cooked and killed the baby in her microwave.2) A mother was sentenced to life in prison for killing her 7-yr old son with a hammer. She hit him and he stumbled around listless, pissing himself, not eating, eyes glazed, slurring speach - he was like this for a week. NO ONE helped him. His dad then buried him in a shallow grave.This kind of shit makes me want to go on a vigilante rage through the city and knock the hell out of anyone who abuses their kids.
sorry, just needed to say that - back to immigration.
Jim G., saw both of those on line myself, and was also tempted to become a vigilante for a short period.
Now, back to immigration.
Ksgrm, JR,I don’t disagree with your solutions. I am leary of any rhetoric where we ascribe punative judgment.I know we are not a police state so I shouldn’t worry about our Government arming us all to push them out but I worry about the policy we may write that does not account for the family structures that exist in the US already. For instance, an illegal father may have wed an illegal woman and they had a legal baby. How do you plan to deal with this scenario? We currently ship the Daddy back to Mexico, or the mommy.I don’t think our current practices fit into a compassionate framework.There is nothing simple about this and surely each case is unique given the extention each illegal person has on the life of their family (wage earner, health care earner, healthy parent).It will be a painstaking sweep to rid America of illegal immigrants.I hate to say this to all you rabid fiscal conservatives - but - since America has bungled this mess for decades we may have to ante up and offer an incentive to illegals and their families so they can leave our country together and with a little money in their pockets.On a personal note - if I have money in my pocket and someone(usually homeless) asks me for some of it - I give it to them -no questions asked. This part of my psychology comes from my feeling that I am one lucky SOB to live here, to grow up on Kansas and that poor soul needed it more than I did at that moment. I don’t make much money but for me - to give is to live.So, now that I have explained my psyche - I think you all will pounce on my liberal ass. ha ha
We are going to need to control the borders.It is a very clear that laws have been broken from all sides.The average Americans has always had dealt with labor laws being broken for very long time since the start of the industrial revolution.The beginnings of illegal practice of a business has always been of labor deputes started by businesses.Discriminations, low wages, no benefits, cutting corners on overhead cost by low quality, lay-offs and out-sourcing, now it is resorting to illegal immigration.The average American citizens need to unite and pressure the court system to pursue charges against government and businesses for their actions and in-actions, they need to be prosecuted and convicted.
The Gooberment will never do anything about the illegals. The facts are, workers that are here illegally will not file to get returns on their taxes for fear of getting caught…..FREE money for the Gooberment.
I am the son of a Nicaraguan immigrant. Not an illegal alien, but an immigrant. I strongly disagree with allowing illegal aliens into this country. People that want to come into this country have to wait a very long time to get into this country. Would anyone like to take a guess? Well, the US government only has so many slots for each country, so anyone coming in has to get on a waiting list. Illegal aliens cut to the front of the line and make the waiting process that much longer. While the illegals are paying $1,000-$3,000 to get in here illegelly and making a “heroing” trip accross the border, many honest immigrants are spending $10,000 or more over several years just to get a green card. All that time and money doesn’t even guarentee that they will be allowed into this country. Most of the honest immigrants come from the same background as the illegal aliens. So while you’re laying in your beds tonight, crying about how much the illegals suffer, take some time to remember the real immigrants that have to spend more time waiting and pay more bribe money to the corrupt officials so that they can come to this beautifull country. If you are wondering what to do about cheap labor, well, don’t we have an unemployment rate of somewere around 6%. What about all those people on wellfare. There is a 6% unemployment rate for all Americans, but I believe that for the people without highschool diplomas (the ones that are only qualified for the jobs that the illegals take)the unemployment is around 30%. Give the jobs to the Americans who need it, and allow the immigrants in that will better this country. A fence is not going to do anything. I think that is just some sort of political game that the people in power are playing to try and make the proles forget about the problem. What we need is more people on the border. Without more people the fences are useless.
Jim, don’t break that arm patting yourself on the back just yet. A new book came out today on charitable giving and guess what? Conservatives out give liberals 4-1. Read it and weep. I would be willing to bet that I give a larger percentage of my income to charitable causes than the liberals I know. Some just talk about it others do it. Back to illegals. Why does the fact that a baby born to a citizen of another country make it a US citizen because it happens to be born here. Doesn’t happen in other countries. Our government has screwed this up for years and it won’t be solved overnight.
Ksgrm,Exhale please.You presented a portion of the data which supports your pride. I am not sure I ever raised an argument about charitable giving. In fact, when I mentioned my personal habit, I did not compare it to anyone.I think you really are trying to stake some claim to having a heart, which until now, I was sure you had….but, it’s kind of like the guys who walk around bragging about their big dicks….most of them wish they had one.Maybe you have misinterpreted what a donation is. I think in your case, having your wages garnished to pay for children or fines is not a donation. Now go back and subtract those amounts and then brag to us about how big a giver you are.
I love it when true colors shine through.
You know I just thought of something about that ’study’ of those who give to charity. I’m fairly poor, but ya know, I’ve given to a lot of things. 5$ here, 5$ there, but I bet you’ll NEVER find my name on some ‘liberal’ list of givers. Maybe liberals prefer to give a little to a lot of different places, instead of dumping all their money into one “Christian” charity?
I can tell you this, I would give to a Catholic charity over an Evangelical one ANYDAY. I actually SEE Catholic charities doing something- how come I never see any good coming of Evangelical ones?
Oh please Mom. Here are a couple of my favorites
worldimpact.orgfca.orgsamaritanspurse.orgsalvationarmy.org
Not to mention rescue missions in just about every major city in the country.And Catholic Charities is good too!
Oh I almost forgot my favorite which is local homegrown and is pledging next year to meet all the unmet needs of children in our local city school district:
jesusshack.org
Are you in Bakersfield california? I put in your addy, and it was dead. So I searched and the only one I could find is jesusshack.com
Blah blah. I regret my self-effacing comments about my liberal mind vis-a-vis giving money to homeless people.Ksgrm got all puffy and now we are debating charities.I think it is fair to say that conservative donation dollars come from wealthy people and wealthy corporations. As for number of individuals making donations, that award goes to dems.Either way - there are many many many republicans that I know that refuse to give money to the united way because the money goes to help blacks, homeless, drug addicts, etc.I don’t doubt that this is very real nation wide.You would cringe if you knew how very little and how very few times our local billionare gave to the united way.
Sure is an awful lot of high-minded ideals about the illegals. These blog pages sure do a good job of letting folks let others know how important they are. Anyway, NOTHING is going to be done about the illegal “problem”, simply because way too many people are making money off of these folks. End of story.
Just, it’s our nation, and it’s our duty to elect people to represent our ideals about the illegals. Our government is supposed to be by the people for the people. And the people overwhelmingly have spoken.
Jim G,You digust me.
Why in the world would you care how much “our local billionaire” gives to the United Way? And, more importantly, how would you know?
And, if you truely DO know, how effing unethical is it that you comment on it here?
Yes Mom on location..com is the right one. Thanks.
So Kia, the school district is going to allow a religious group to preach to them? That sounds like a major violation to me, and if were my district I’d be in front of the school board. You mean that it’ll help CHRISTIAN kids, not all the kids in general.
I don’t think the school district has taken them up on the offer yet.But basically they have offered to feed kids that are on the lunch program, provide coats and clothing to those in need as well as school supplies and things like that.I am sure the offer is open to all the kids in need.I don’t believe they will be preaching to them either.Just this is from Jesus Shack.
An interesting take on immigration reform: “high skilled immigrants” in particular, all immigrants in general.
http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2006/12/the_economic_benefit_of_highsk.html