Much has been made about how an estimated 30 percent of white evangelicals voted for Democrats this election. But that’s only slightly better than the 28 percent who voted for Democrats in 2004, the New York Times reported. And despite the prediction that disillusioned white evangelicals might stay home on Election Day, they made up about 24 percent of those who voted, up from 23 percent in 2004. However, there were a few states — such as Ohio and Pennsylvania — where a shift in these voters did help Democrats. Also, liberal Christians were much more active this election and helped defeat anti-evolution school board candidates and pass ballot initiatives to raise the minimum wage.
So the good news for Republicans is that their white evangelical base held firm, despite the political scandals. But the bad news is that the GOP lost anyway.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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167 Comments
The Republican Party has become a regional party, the party of the South. They will be able to hold onto the South for at least a generation, as we all know that most Southerners are not that bright (most likely the incest, you know). The rest of the country has made up its mind about the extreme hypocrisy of the radical ‘religious’ right, who seem to only be motivated by hatred of those who do not conform to their warped worldview.
And I hate to break it to you Joe, YOU LOST FAIR AND SQUARE. If anything, it was YOUR TEAM that was trying to intimidate and disenfranchise voters
Yup yup, that’s what we’ve been saying, and yet, the Nutty Conservatives keep thinking they’ve gotta be more conservative (socially).
“…most Southerners are not that bright…”
Which Mensa chapter do you belong to, and why have you gone off your thorazine? Probably don’t care too much for kikes, nigs, wetbacks or gooks either, do you ? And tacitly allege that you are a liberal ? Guess I overlooked liberal as a synonym for moron ! Be careful when you read this. There are a few multi-syllable words you won’t grasp, but I tried to keep them at a minimum.
Evangelicals and born-again Christians, one of these days we will phase out this retarded mix of politics and the abusing usage of God completely.
Actually joe, it’s still a problem and they are going to try and fix it, which is something HAVA didn’t do. I personally would like a return to pencil and paper and hand counts. At the very least open source coding for voting machines with a paper trail.
huh, how did I get ahead of the post I was answering?
Since the Democrats took back their birth-right to control government, I’ll bet we won’t here a peep about voter or election fraud ever again.
pbrownlee: Your comments apparently reflect the national situation, not Sedgwick County. Locally we didn’t vote on a member of the Kansas board of education so we didn’t express an opinion on teaching creation/evolution in high schools. And, as far as I know, no where in Kansas did we vote on increasing the minimum wage.
The EAGLE’s Wednesday morning paper headlined, Morrison (Democrat) Eclipses Kline (Republican) for State AG. Looks like a lot of Kansas moderate voters crossed over to make that choice.
As a moderate Republican myself who generally votes straight Republican tickets, this year I suspect I split my vote 50-50.
Just this morning, I talked to a fellow, a former career government employee, who told me virtually the same thing. He said he is tired of politicians “who are in it for themselves” and forget how they got in office once elected. He said from now on, he will vote selectively for the candidate, not the political party.
It’s posting out of order.Must be all the gov’t surveillance again.
Jwink – That is the power of being unaffiliated.
jwink….Moderate Republicans Sally Cauble and Jana Shaver won election to the state school board insuring that pro-science moderates will have a 6-4 majority on the board in January. Unfortunately, moderates Don Weiss and Jack Wempe lost to right-wingers John Bacon and Ken Willard.
Actually, if you look at the posting times, I think joe’s clock is running a little fast. Strange, I thought it would be the other way around! ;-)
Evangelicals and Born Again Christian will always be a political force in this state and country as long as liberal elitists and extremists like Nancy Pelosi are in power. The best way for Dems to neutralize us is to pass some pro-life bills and confirm non-judicial activist judges to the courts. Good luck with that.
Non-judicial activist judges. Hummm, you mean judges that don’t rule the way you want them to?
He may mean judges who interpret law as it’s written, not as they would like it to be.
Oh jesus, not another god thread…..
Oh God, not another Jesus thread.If you touch a Jesus thread,with faith,aren’t you healed?
Alice A. Bailey:
He has been for two thousand years the supreme Head of the Church Invisible, the spiritual Hierarchy, composed of the disciples of all faiths. He recognises and loves those who are not Christian but who retain their allegiance to their Founders – the Buddha, Mohammed and others.He cares not what the faith is, if the objective is love of God, and of humanity. If men look for the Christ Who left His disciples centuries ago, they will fail to recognise the Christ Who is in the process of returning. The Christ has no religious barriers in His consciousness. It matters not to Him of what faith a man may call himself.
The Son of God is on His way, and He cometh not alone. His advance guard is already here, and the Plan which they must follow, is already made clear.Let recognition be the aim.
He may reappear in a totally unexpected guise; who is to say whether He will come as a politician, an economist, a leader of the people (arising from the midst of them), a scientist or an artist?
The Bible is clear on this.One either believes in Jesus Christ as the Son o’ God or one does not get into Heaven.John 3:16
Some would think that harsh and try to make it otherwise, but it’s right there in red and white.
Judges who allow elected officials to make laws that aren’t expressly forbidden in the Constitution. It’s democracy in action. You ought to try it.
I know woody.Ghandi, Buddha and friends are all going staight to hell to do some teeth gnashing.The dalai llama is evil, so on.
The world problem is essentially a religious problem, and behind all strife in every department of world thought today is to be found the religious element.
tracy-I didn’t write it.
Joe..
You sure got that right. It is obviously ONLY fraud when Republicans win. It is ONLY a “stolen” election when the dems don’t win.
Nope..won’t hear another peep abotu voter fraud until a popular dem loses…then the whining will start anew…just like we have been hearing for the last 4 years or so..
I think there are those in the faith community who see the ned for Social Justice. For example, the ‘purple tent’ campaign is church-based. Some of this group might be noticing that the current GOP bunch have done little to help in that area.
Stewardship of our Garden is another issue in which some in the faith community find more common ground with Dems than with reps.
Woody. Thanks, I wasn’t sure!!HA. just kidden.
I like the RED LETTERS.Don’t care much for most of the black ones.
Woody, I didn’t write Bailey’s stuff either, I just copied and pasted.
Raptor, whining about whining?
I think the tendency to lump all Christians as Evangelicals is a mistaken and tends to lead to assumptions.
Evangelicals can be made up of many types of faith groups, Baptists, Methodists and etc., but aren’t necessarily defined as one group because it is not a recognized denomination, but rather a description of a religious philosophy.
If you ask a Southern Baptist Denomination member (who is in the know) if they are part of the Evangelicals, they will tell you absolutely not. And for several reasons, because of fundamentalist beliefs and their Churches mission. There are around 12 million Southern Baptists.
Now to confuse the matter, there are Southern Baptists that are Evangelists, only because they are on the road preaching, teaching and doing mission work.
They do not belong to the group known as Evangelicals. There is a group called National Association of Evangelicals and is composed of several denominations, but it in of itself is not a denomination.
Oh yeah, forgot to add, the writer of the Time magazine article did’t take into consideration that Souther Baptists don’t consider themselves belonging to the non-denominational Evangelicals.
So, the article’s conclusions are very flawed.
JM – very true. My brother is a Southern Baptist but I don’t think I owuld call him an evangelical.
On the other hand, I would call Terry Fox an evangelical.
However, as you correctly point out, Christians are a very mixed group – just like any other religion.
ddub – I think rm got you fair and square. As a Southernor myself I don’t know that we are all that “dumb”. In fact, when I went to college up north and out west I found quite the opposite as I easily got better grades than my Yankee classmates.
The only problem I have with evangelicals is that if you’re not evangelical too, they act like you’re not a real christian and your salvation is questionable.
Not at all, Tracy. I am just following the example we have been given for the past 6 years. That example being:If you don’t like the election outcome, scream FRAUD and STOLEN election over and over.
raptor – that is really only if there are questions about the count. Several people I would like to ahve won didn’t – for the simple reason they got fewer votes than the other guy. When I ran for office I lost – the other guy got more votes. No screams. No evidence of fraud not theft.
Why am I not shocked that I “lost you at MENSA” ??? And you’re aticulate, too. “Go fuck yourself…” is such a great way to capitalize from your well-focused arguments !! I rest my case !
“If you don’t like the election outcome, scream FRAUD and STOLEN election over and over.”
Try this on for size, rap: if there really WAS fraud and stolen elections, scream it over and over. And that applies no matter WHO you might be supporting, even if the fraud helps your candidate.
You can keep pretending that’s all politics, but it won’t change what happened.
By the way, I’ve rather tired of these stupid argument about judges would only “interpret law, not make it.” That’s what every judge does.
If you’re serious about reducing judicial influence over the law, it won’t matter at all who the judges are. You’re talking about a sea change in how the judiciary operates within our system itself.
I voted on Tuesday. A sort-of long line, maybe 45 minutes. I was offered the option of doing an optically-scanned paper ballot, and voting immediately. I took it. I only filled out a quarter of the ballot for candidates I thought were relevant to my interests. (Like, with only 1 judicial candidate, what’s the point of filling the oval?) Anyway, the machine wouldn’t take my ballot.
So, I thought, “Well if I fill in ALL the ovals, the machine has to take it.” So I wasted time doing so. And, Voila! IT WORKED. Truly defective computer technology. For fifty years we have had SAT and ACT optical scanner machines that recognize “no answer given”.
Avi Rubin, a computer science expert at Johns Hopkins got a copy of Diebold’s code for its touch-screen machine, and found major holes. As the son of an English professor, he made the analogy: An expert in English can read a manuscript and conclude, this is the product of a polished writer, or a grad student, or somebody who doesn’t have a good command of the English language.
He showed snippets of the Diebold code to expert computer scientists and made them laugh. Diebold hired amateur-level programmers who wouldn’t even rank among the top 20,000 California HIGH SCHOOL programming geeks.
Anyway, I thought it was good to use a system that created a paper trail, and so I took the paper-ballot option. But if Sedgwick County election officials ARE SO BACKWARDS that they can’t even think to hire some tech-experts who can advise them to buy AT LEAST 1960-level technology in 2006, do you TRUST these dumbkofs? (”Duh, I dunno. They gave us a real good price to pass onto the taxpayers. I’m too technology-ignorant to decide what machines are best, and it’s too hard for me get funding to employ somebody who can do this.”)
Correction: I meant one oval for every office, not every oval on the ballot.
“Probably don’t care too much for kikes, nigs, wetbacks or gooks either, do you ?” (Rm6046)From your quote I gather you know what these words mean. Without using racial slurs I will freely admit that there are things about each of the aforementioned slurs, and their corresponding race, that pisses me off. I am a liberal and I am not color blind. I support legislation as the official language. I support legal immigration. I support equality for all under the US Constitution. I don’t think that pointing out the difference of a different race, or culture, whether it be good or bad, is wrong. This mindset of pretending not to notice other races is fucking nitwitty. Hey, if the Hispanics are populating this nation illegaly, then we need to stop them. Holy shit, I bet most of us havef fences around our backyards.I don’t vote republican. I despise modern conservatism. Since when did God become a political party.I just want legal, fair, just, interpretation of the constitution.
Jim – I’m fairly sure RM was using those terms solely for shock/sarcasm; not his views. I have been known to use some of them in certain contextx – to show the idiocy of using them at all.
hmmmmm: Thank you. You’re certainly correct.
Jim G. : I apologize if I have offended you. Hmmmm got it right on the nose. BTW, I’m Jewish and Conservative.. And there are many things about people, even Southerners, that piss me off ! I just don’t think you can universally catagorize any group as a whole based on race or religion. Somebody can worship at the “First Church of the Purple Jesus” if it works for them. My God doesn’t give a damn what you call yourself, and personally, I think it is, at best, manically egotistical or, at worst, sacreligious, to think that any one group has all the answers. Again, I sincerely apologize if I have offended you.
“They will be able to hold onto the South for at least a generation, as we all know that most Southerners are not that bright (most likely the incest, you know).”
ddub, That comment was beneath your dignity. Nothing like dealing in stereotypes, huh? Being from the South, I’m more than a little dissapointed in the right-wing bent my Southern brothers and sisters have taken. It hasn’t always been that way. It wasn’t that long ago when we talked about the “Solid South” and the “Southern Democratic Bloc”.
Rather than criticize us, tell me what has caused such a change. Folks in the South are good Americans and fine people, too.
What the hell went wrong?
I’m not surprised that my sarcasm totally passed you by, DOUCHEBAG. Or maybe we can try DICKFACE on, see if it fits…..yep, tailor made.
I also like how you deduce that because I do not care for Southerners, I am somehow racist. Not true at all. In fact, racism and blind allegiance to some vague notion of ‘conservatism,’ as supposedly embodied by the Republican Party, are the reasons I dislike the South and its environs. For example, have you ever heard of this little thing known as the GOP’s ‘Southern Strategy?’ I can refresh your memory in case you have forgotten – the GOP capitalized on the fact there was strong, almost violent disagreement in the Democratic Party over Civil Rights legislation by appealling to the majority of Southerners, who were Democrats but ALSO racists, with implicit racism. LBJ said, when signing the landmark civil rights act, that he had ‘lost the South for a generation’ for the Dems. He was almost correct – its been more than one generation, and the Southerners are still pissed at the liberals for helping the black man realize his constitutionally guaranteed freedoms.
So you can take your pretensions and shove them up your ass; or, in a less crude manner, reminiscent of the genteel way that our vice president presents himself, let me sincerely say ‘go fuck yourself.’ Douchebag.
I suppose we all have our predjudices. For example, I don’t really care for idiots or morons.
re rm6046 @ 4:22 – TOUCHE, O WISE ONE!
One wonders if I hit a raw nerve with you, ol’ buddy ol’ pal. Because all you seem to have done is respond to my points (admittedly peppered with insults) with more insults or straw men arguments such as ‘dislike of southerners=racism.’ At least formulate a cogent, germane argument AND THEN call me an idiot or moron. Sheesh, don’t you know how these internets work? (Answer: Its a system of tubes…)
You’re correct. I’m simply reponding to your “points”, if that is what you choose to call them. I’m not on a soapbox here ! I’m just curious why you can catagorize Southerners, as a group far more diverse than even race or religion, in one fell swoop, and claim that is appropriate, but catagorizing anyone else isn’t. And let’s face it, ol’ buddy, ol’ pal, as we say in the South, “Ya’ ain’t no rocket scientist!”
ddub, I suggest discussion and you respond with a spew of filth. I appoligize profoundly for addressing you. Nowhere did I accuse you of racism nor was it my intent.
(note how I got through that without cursing, use of explitive, or insult)
As a born and raised Southernor I also took umbrage at your characterization ddub. By the way, I DID qualify for MENSA so I guess I can’t be TOO dumb!
What part of the south, hmmmm…?
Georgia. Home of the Yellow Jackets and Bulldogs! Atlanta.
I did a 3,000 mile motorcycle ride through the South on the 2-lanes last month. I met a lot of really nice people. Pretty much people just like us.
I hale from Texas myself. 2 strikes against me, lol!
(Cowboys, heh, heh!)
XXX: Now we’re getting somewhere ! What to do about T.O. ?????????????
Here is why Kansans are backwards. It’s actually simple. Where I grew up, you had low midnight temperatures. By noon, the sun made the temperature WARMER than at the previous midnit. In Wichita, the midnight temperature is warmer than the next-day noon temperature.
This is BACKWARDS. And you don’t even THINK about this. The Navtive Americans did, which is why they chose not to live here.
haertlander – the “people of the south wind” lived here. They just knew how to live in this environment.
OMG!! Now dBubba’s going to start on “the people of the south wind” too!
You are all hanging yourselves with your strict adherence to the dogma of “political correctness.” That is your problem America. That is why your airport screeners are checking white grandmothers and little girls at airports instead of doing the sane, rational thing of inspecting people of Middle-Eastern descent. Why is it that people from highly industrialized countries adhere to such a moronic Leftist principle? God only knows.
So is that when the two parties switched sides? Is that why some old dems can be really racist? I always wondered how that occured. I knew there was a ’switch’ at some point, but I didn’t really know why.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixiecrat
What a thread!Ddub, I am a conservative Christian who has never marched in a demonstration, never tried to convert someone to my relegion or told someone they couldn’t do something they wanted to do. However I do give food and clothing to others when they need it. I donate money to those who try to help themselves and because of circumstances can’t. In other words I live my life and allow others to live theirs. Why do you feel the need to curse, rant and rave about Christians? I will pray that you will see the error of your ways and find out how satisfying it is to talk nice to and about others and help those who need it.
Will: “Political correctness” is an oxymoron and a bad joke. I just sure as hell don’t think people should be catagorized or stereotyped generically. All I am saying, if they’re jerks, they’re jerks, individually, not collectively. I question seriously screeners checking elderly ladies and little girls. But, on the other hand, if the message truly is, “Hey Mahmoud ! Nobody’s going to walk through here like you own the place … and you can put this profiling crap where Allah doesn’t smile”, then I’m all for it, and if I have to get to the airport an hour earlier, and feel confident that when I land, I’m not going to be aflame … my friend, I can live with that ! I don’t think that labels me a moronic Leftist .
ksgrm, if only all christians were like you.
I should always say fundamentalist christians that are the ones to be afraid of, there are many many good Christians who do not wish to shove their beliefs down my throat.
So thank you for being one of the good guys.
Peemom,
If anybody tried to shove something down your throat, it wouldn’t have been a “fundamentalist” Christian.
The South has its share of dummies, just like the rest of the country. It could be those slow, Southern drawls, different in each area, that make them appear “slower.” Hey, at least they have time to think while they’re speaking.
One thing I’ve always felt Southerners have that others may not is pride, no matter what their circumstances.
I found Southerners to be the most hospitable and respectful Americans in the whole country; and I’ve been everywhere in this country. I grew up in the East, and I prefer the company of the Southerners to any other group of Americans.
RD: Yep, you got it !! Thanks !!
Will: You, too !! Thank you also.
“This is BACKWARDS. And you don’t even THINK about this. The Navtive Americans did, which is why they chose not to live here.”
Posted by: heartlander | November 10, 2006 at 05:30 PM
You may want to pay a visit to our Native America Center here. Some very nice displays and knowledgeable people there.
But in short, Native Americas did indeed have camps and villages in Kansas. Some of the tribes were more nomadic than others, following the food sources such as buffalo and the like.
There were Native Americas to greet the Spanish when they arrived in Kansas in the 1500s.
I’m not much of a scholar on Native Americans, but there were probably migrations of various tribes in the area we now call Kansas for hundreds if not thousands of years. Nomadic tribes don’t leave much in the way of evidence, so it is hard to track them.
Will, feeling a little guilty are ya? Why was it YOU that felt the need to respond to that…to defend your fundamentalist, throat shoving beliefs?
Peemom,Gosh you sure are funny today! You see a FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIAN is the person who strives everyday to be like Jesus Christ. Why do YOU feel threatened by Jesus Christ? Is it not your sins that are weighing you down?
Will, I came from the South, in the Ozark Mountain Country. believe me, there are some real backwards people down there.
My stepmother, a special ed teacher, used to throw shoes at us and burn things that were precious to us if we made her mad(like a blanket my grandmother made me before she died). And she still thinks you can get AIDS from a drinking fountain. (I SHUDDER TO THINK OF HER TEACHING KIDS WHO CAN’T SPEAK)
Now conversely, my grandmother had real Southern Hospitality for the family…but believe me she would have never let a black in her house. That hospitality is not all inclusive. Sure, they’ll act sweet as pie and gracious to your face, but you should hear it after you leave.
Peemom,While I have no reason to doubt your story, that has not been my personal experience. When I said that I prefer the company of Southerners, I meant ALL of them regardless of race. Why should I think poorly of the people of the South when they have done no wrong against me, despite my being a “damn Yankee” hehehe! As far as your mother burning things, well that’s cruel and downright inhumane behavior. Now I’ve run into some unsavory characters in my short time on this earth, but I have no right to judge an entire community on the actions of some bad apples. It would be unfair and irrational if I did.
I see that ddub is just another ignorant Dixiephobe, much like CapnGalahad, disgusting!
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!
Viva Las Vegas!!
No, I see a fundamentalist Christian as a hypocrite and about in the same light as I would a Nazi.
Will, the first key to succesful evangelism would be to find a receptive audience.
Peemom,Comparisons between Nazis and fundamentalist Christians?Surely you jest!
Tracy,Whos evangelizing?
The Bible is NOT history or science.The fundies find ways to claim it as both.Young earth creation anyone?
I don’t know.Who’s a fundamentalist?
Although the term fundamentalism in popular usage sometimes refers derogatorily to any fringe religious group, or to extremist ethnic movements with only nominally religious motivations, the term does have a more precise denotation. “Fundamentalist” describes a movement to return to what is considered the defining or founding principles of the religion. It has especially come to refer to any religious enclave that intentionally resists identification with the larger religious group in which it originally arose, on the basis that fundamental principles upon which the larger religious group is supposedly founded have become corrupt or displaced by alternative principles hostile to its identity.
This formation of a separate identity is deemed necessary on account of a perception that the religious community has surrendered its ability to define itself in religious terms. The “fundamentals” of the religion have been jettisoned by neglect, lost through compromise and inattention, so that the general religious community’s explanation of itself appears to the separatist to be in terms that are completely alien and fundamentally hostile to the religion itself. Fundamentalist movements are therefore founded upon the same religious principles as the larger group, but the fundamentalists more self-consciously attempt to build an entire approach to the modern world based on strict fidelity to those principles, to preserve a distinctness both of doctrine and of life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalism
Now please explain what the above has to do with Nazis??
Will, you’re a pretty piss poor example of the Christ-like values you claim to emulate.Clean up your own backyard before you judge others.
Hooo boy. See what happens when I get to a thread late?
ddub
I am just as flummoxed as you are as to why Southerners vote as they do.Mississippi has overall the lowest standard of living in the US yet they always vote reliably Republican. Why?
I think alot of it is history.
BUT
Think ya change any of their minds by posting stuff like you did? I note you did not answer XXX. Maybe you did not see his post yet. You were way outta line. Win hearts and minds man! You don’t do that by calling the entire south stupid.
The south has always seen others as elitist. Now days they got Rush and others to tell them that they are the good common folks and democrats and liberal ARE elitist. Well here comes you to show them Rush is right!
I posted elsewhere about the religious component in politics these days.
As is mentioned above, there are no small number of evangelicals who are starting to question their historic allegiance to the GOP. Environmental and social welfare issues are starting to look to them as better addressed by Democrats and liberals. There are additional numbers finding their place is not in politics at all. Again we don’t win these folks over by ridiculing them. Yes when they push they need to be pushed back. But let’s let them the opportunity to offend first.
I CLAIM TO EMULATE CHRIST LIKE VALUES!??
Where have you been?
Given our human disposition, when in a relaxed personal state of mind, is to make racial/cultural generalizations and express little concern for political correctness, we are going to continually go in circles. For instance, RM6046 was making a point much earlier in the day and made this statement “Probably don’t care too much for kikes, nigs, wetbacks or gooks either, do you ?” I published a statement a few blogs later where I used the quote to make my point that I do sometimes categorize and generalize races and cultures for things that I personally am in disagreement or just don’t give a shit about vis-a-vis ‘their’ issues.RM6046 most likely saw my use of the quote and when taken out of its original context, the quote looked ugly, but it wasn’t.So, RM6046 apologized, which is mighty kind given that apologies are something that one can overlook on a blog since no one knows who is who.The point I was trying to make in my earlier blog is that I do, I choose, and I am comfortable with making generalizations about other people, other races, other cultures, other classes, other religions, other anything. I just don’t use the slurs.Am I different than a person who uses the slurs? That’s probably just for me to know…? Who really knows what lies in someones heart.This brings me to the whole political correctness nature of today’s world.RM6046 took exception to something someone else said. I took exception to RM6046 for taking exception to someone else.Now, someone will read this and ascribe a label to me.Here’s the deal. I support the US Constitution and I will support any candidate who values the constittion more than they value their personal morals.I do not care that many conservative christians are fanatical about gay marriage, abortion, etc., but I do care when they use their influence($$$) to influence a candidate to forego the constitution and lead for the purpose of keeping the votes and dollars coming.How about a President that will stand up and say – this is America, we came to be under the US Constitution. No one will see eye to eye and certainly many of us will not like each other, but as we all live under the Constitution, we are going to treat every man, woman, and child with respect and equality.I could live like that. I could live with my generalizations that people in the South are more bigoted, less educated, and scarier (to me) than people in the North. I think people in this city, based on location, will be wealthier, or will be dumber, or will be blacker, or will be more criminally suspected.This is all true. People in California live differently than we do in Kansas.I cannot stand Michigan accents, they drive me nuts. Same goes for people from Brooklyn.Same goes for black folk.Does that make me a bigot?In my eyes what would make me a bigot is if I failed to see that all the people that I find negatively different than me would be underserving as me. If I felt that I should be allowed to vote so to make these people go away, or to make their lives harder, then I would be a bigot.If I denied any of these persons a job opportunity, or a promotion, I would be a bigot.I am not a bigot. I am someone who just doesn’t think that by saying the proper thing makes me better than someone who expressed their true opinion.There are a shitload of fuckheads like me in this nation…but our political parties do not know how to TELL us about what the constitution really means. They want to tell us that they will represent all of hidden agendasFuck that. I thought McCain might be the guy…but that little shit sold out to Falwell and Robertson, and that dirty shitty cowardly move he pulled on John Kerry should never be forgiven.Where is Jack Palance when you need him? RIPThat sum-bitch seemed to speak in plain terms.As for right wing christian fanatics – “I crap bigger than you” Jack P.
Mary,Where’s the beef woman?Sorry if I don’t fall into lock-step with your P.C. approach to religion. That ecumenical approach that you and your liberal friends emulate. You know that moral equivalency “every religion is equal” “everyone is the same” nonsense that your brood like to pass around as pooh-gas every waking moment of their lives. Wake up! Not every religion is the same, every religion is different from one another because different human beings perceive themselves and the world around them differently. The equivolence of religion is definitely a Stalinist brainchild. How typical of the Left to use a political philosophy to undermine the social and religious fabric of nations. Does anyone remember the Bolshevik Revolution anymore?
Stalin would be so proud.
Will, when you said “Mary” I thought you might be referring to me, since I am gay.Hey, go easy on ascribing the liberal label with the whole ecumenical thing. I go to the Unity Church, not for the ‘all-is-one’ bullshit, but because it is one of the few churches I feel comfortable in.I definitaly know there are many different religions, and many different slants.As for far left liberals…I think they have lost their fucking minds and have no perspective.Go with the US Consitution and keep the religion in the church…on Sundays.
So where does religious (Christian) speech fall in with freedom of speech then?
I think all religion is BS and anyone who thinks they belong to the true one is a fool.Religion is just a tool used for intolerance and hatred by many of the followers, doesn’t matter if you’re Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, etc. It’s all the same.
Religious equivalency is the reason that we fucked up in Iraq! The dumbshit Rumsfeld thought that if he took Baghdad all the Iraqi cities would follow quietly. What he didn’t understand is that Iraqis don’t think like pussy Americans! You see, when pussy Americans of today lose, they give up, and then they blame themselves or someone else why they fucked up. Iraqis fight for a CAUSE, you know kinda like the WWII generation did. Iraqis don’t give a fuck about political correctness or any other moronic Leftist political philosophies. That is why we lost and they won. That is why when Nathan comes home, the Democrats are gonna tell him along with the million other soldiers stationed there that they did a job well done, when in reality they did nothing but stir up a fucking hornet’s nest. That is why their civilization will survive, because they don’t give a shit about what anyone else thinks but themselves. They put Iraq first, they don’t care about hurting someone else’s feelings. They see us as tyrants and we are losing what little credibility we had with the Arab nations. And what the fuck are we doing? Arguing about which political party we should affiliate with. Arguing about which political ideology is more in vogue than others. When did a bunch of pussies take over this country anyway?
How very “enlightened” of you, Mary-Damoon. It has been said that a person who stands for everything, believes in nothing.
V.L.R.B!!
It is freedom of speech…but respect the Constitution as our guiding principle….do not try to force the bible into the white house.We have to have a lid. The lid need to be the constitution.America is big enough for all this shit. But to think that because someone is born again is their entitlement to vote to control the lives of others (gay marriage) is just a crazy notion when it is applied to the constitution.Do you favor restricting rights of those citizens who do not read the bible?Probably not, but you will vote to control the rights of someone whom you disagree with because of your beliefs from the bible.Basically, I think the hardest part will be for Christians to have to acknoledge that they are not GOD, but only human, and as far as humanity goes…us Americans have the best system, the constitution.All I ask is that all Christian leaders understand that we live under the Constition.I think it would be really powerful if you were to go to your pastor and ask them to teach the Constitution in church.I wonder if that ever happens?Our American values should be Constitution first.But that would mean Christians would have to acknowledge that people who they do not like are still deserving of equal rights (gay marriage).Yes, there is freedom of speech, but don’t you think our nation would be a much better place if our schools, churches, and civic organization, would value the constitution more than our individual beliefs.Mighty High vision.
JimboG,
You are not very “TOLERANT” of my “DIVERSE” opinions now, are you?
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!
You know what else pisses me off? Black people who think like the world owes them something. Just because some white guy enslaved his ancestors 200 years ago, they think like I owe them something, or that its okay for them to make fun of white people but its not okay for white people to make fun of them cuz then they’d be “racists” and shit! But you know what? Fuck them. First of all, they got sold out by their OWN PEOPLE. African tribes would regularly enslave captured soldiers after warfare. When the Europeans went their, those same slave-owning blacks sold them off to the Europeans. Second of all, that was fucking 300 years ago!!! I mean God! Get the fuck over it already!!! I’m a fucking ethnic Filipino and our people have been enslaved in their own country by the Spanish for over 500 years, so fuck them! You don’t see us walking around demanding shit from America like they owe us something! Fuck that! That happened 500 years ago, we don’t even have anything to do with that anymore! So yeah, those black people that think like the White Man is the cause for all their problems can kiss my ass!
I love the speech from Michael Douglas the American President when he talks about freedom of speech and America and the constitution.I am paraphrasing, but basically celebrate a person’s speech who makes your blood boil as he screams at the top of his lungs protesting everything you have spent your life defending at the top of yours. Celebrate that in your schools and then you can talk about the land of the free.
Well mine is Christianity, the love and forgiveness that can come only from Christ and the salvation from his death on the cross. I believe in the 10 commandments but also believe as Christ pointed out that there are only really two – 1) Love God with all your heart and all your mind and 2) Love your neighbor as yourself.I don’t come anywhere close to always doing these. That is why I need the salvation of Christ.
However, many of you will now shout this down.
Land of the free?
Slick Willie,intriguing….your take on black folk. This blog is about personal expression so I will take your recent race examination as your personal expression.When I wrote my thoughts it is to say that I can feel and say what I want…however tact and respect should always win over.You sir, are a slave to dickdom.
Mr Kia,Save yourself. I’ll worry about my own way.All this salvation shit doesn’t click with me.Ever hear of propoganda? I mean, I know you would never think people like Falwell and Robertson could ever make up shit as propoganda…but I do.There have been truckloads of Falwells and Robertson’s since Jesus Copperfield did his trick.It feels good.But, I know God loves me….and I don’t need to do a bunch of juggling and tongue chants to get into heaven.Simple. God loves everyone. There is no hell.Ya’ll just feel guilty so you need some levels to reach to feel like you are somebody deserving of God’s love. Shit man. God loves everyone.
Will,Ooops.Are you married?
Then your belief that divorce is wrong carries as much logical weight as a bunch of men who vow celibacy and then pass judgement on people who have sex, jack off, get divorced, etc.Why don’t you become a marriage counselor and then come back and tell us what your “experienced” opinion is…otherwise your bible-babble is doing what it has always done – cause more pain than good.
And what I said about black people was that I don’t like when some of em walk around like I fucking owe them something because of something bad that happened to them 300 years ago. To me that’s just fucking ridiculous. I know that most of em are alright, just the loudmouths who walk around blaming the Man for their problems pisses me off. I know too, I fucking grew up in the Bronx, how the fuck are you gonna complain about the White Man keeping you poor when all you do is sit on the corner shooting dice and drinking 40s all day? That just doesnt make any sense! If that makes me racist, then oh no! I must be racist then. Who gives a shit anyway.
Think what you want. It’s your right.And let me do the same.
WillWe are much more alike than this babbledom would make that appear.Do you want to date?
No man, I dont play for that team. Besides I thought I was just a no good bible-babbler.
Will,On Sunday, in a Catholic Church, the preist rambles about the no-divorce thing while sitting in the congregation are women who are battered, raped by their husbands, children abused, infidelity, all this ‘real’ shit that has been happening since the beginning of time.And for some reason, you and your type want to hang your hats on some grand expectation, pass that on to ‘real’ people and then sit around making anyone who gets a divorce feel guilty.What I am saying is that you run around making your points from the bible…but the bible has never ever never ever represented reality.It does not have any room for reality. It is an old worn book….from milleniums past and YOU think in 2006 that divorce is bad.I was a schoolemates with two guys, one 12, one 10, who were beaten severely on regularly for years. These boys would come to school covered in bruises. They told of being chained to trees all night long.Here’s the FUN part, Will.THeir MOMMY and DADDY and the kids were in Catholic Church every fucking Sunday. They walked the walk.The two boys both ran away…both before they turned 13.The Mommy and Daddy continued to go to church every Sunday, and they still do to this day.6 months ago the husband beat the wife so severely she could not walk. Plus, he beat her out in a pasture far from their home. He left her there all night long. She drug herself to the nearest road.The next Sunday they were in Church together.The two boys have not been seen in my hometown since they left. I wonder if their mom and dad ever went to look for them?They went to church? They didn’t ask for help to find their children.The State (under our constitution) helped find the boys a home.So – this all occured in a town of 800 people. The teachers, the preacher, everyone failed those boys, and failed the mother.Today, they are still happily married. I am sure you are so happy for them.
Oh, I failed to mention that the teachers, civic leaders, other parents, other students, and of course the Priest….were all Catholic….all were in Church on Sunday.No one interferred…these were church going people.
….and what is even more disgusting…to this day…no one talks about it…the adults…the parents do not talk about it…they just don’t.That mindset, the cowardly guilt, all driven in them by Catholicism
I imagine the feeling inside the mother, and the grandparents, and the uncles and aunts is that no one wants to tell the priest….because it will show they are failing, it will show the ugliness of their lives, it will show that they are not living the way the CHURCH has TOLD them they should live.
does anyone have anything to say? or are you Jesus loving bastards sticking your heads in the sand
Will,You are a coward. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot tell people what is right and wrong and then act like it is their problem when their thinking pattern is warped because of the Church.I could just slap the fuck out of you right now…you fucking coward.
If I was a marriage counselor, I’d tell engaged couples to really find out about each other to make sure they’re not marrying a sick fuck who would do those sick fucking things to them or their kids. Sounds good doesn’t it? You know what that’s called Jim? It’s called COMMON SENSE!
Oh! What happened Jim? Resorting to personal insults now? Why you’re not making any sense? Where is your argument now, bub? It’s completely in the mud and in the shit where it belongs.
Funny WIll,the Catholic Church is the fuckface place that helps them discover their love.They were married in the 50’s…you fuck. The Church has ruined many many lives, including yours.And, are you blaming the 12 year old boys who are manipulated into sucking dick…in YOUR CHURCH. You are single…maybe you are a child fucker. Goes right along with your religious beliefs.You make me sick
Jim,I can tell you’ve been hurt. You may even have been a former Catholic. I guess Freud really was right. What I want you to know Jim, is that God’s Justice is as boundless as his Mercy. There is still hope for you yet Jim. Repent and be saved.
It’s okay Jim, I forgive you.
Will,I tend to get angry and lose my cool when people do not hold themselves and their beliefs accountable….vis-a-vis the no-divorce policy.SO Will, the two people are married…now what do you say to them? What does YOUR RELIGION say to the children of evil mom and dad. So, they made a mistake. Do you think they should live with the agony>What’s the next step? Or is it like you said – hey, you get what you paid for…so if you got a bad one, you should have done a better job picking,Is that the answer YOUR RELIGION has for horrible marriages?Come on Will- i am sure you will acknowledge that not all people are such strong willed as you so maybe they married without understanding what they wanted out of life.So what is your answer to bad marriages?I am here son.
Here’s one for you Will,I know a Catholic who was married for 13 years!!!He cheated. He never told her. He was miserable. He went to his church and got a fucking annulment.AN ANNULMENT!!So, he never was divorced.This is your church, baby.
Are you asking me about how to prevent bad marriages? That’s a bit much don’t you think? During instances of irreconcilable marriages, a separation or “annulment” may be granted. This is not a dissolution of the marriage, but it will prevent the abuser access to harm his wife or children. There is more to it in Canon Law, but that is the gist of it.:)
Nice spin. He is remarried with children.I think you are mildly a priest.
He never got a divorce. 13 years of marriage, no abuse, had two children, and were granted an annulment.
So, the church created a loophole.
Come on…are you searching for your dead sea scrolls cd-rom?
Ah! So you were Catholic. Freud was right. Freud was right. Well you know what? I’ve been a Catholic for 23 years and I’ve served as an altar boy, and you know what? I was never molested by my parish priest, nor was I beaten by my father. Both my parents were very supportive of me. I am sorry you got the short end of the stick, but believe it or not, not every Catholic shares the same negative experiences as you do. Were your past insults offensive to me? Yes. Do I blame you for doing it? No. I haven’t walked a mile in your moccasins, for this I will not return your insults.
Okay, ddub, there are a lot of reasons people are attracted to conservatism–it doesn’t have that much to do with intelligence.
If I believed everything the conservatives say about liberals, I’d hate them too.
A lot of folks believe the right-wing propaganda: liberals are effeminite, elitist, un-authentic, overly intellectual.
All of those characteristics are anathama to rural, stoic, laconic farm-boy cowboy worker type.
Conservatism means “manliness” to a lot of people.
Villifying Southerners is nothing but a cheap-shot.
Is he remarried? I bet he’s only LEGALLY married to his second wife. Did the Church marry him twice? No. There is a difference between the secular marriage and matrimony. As a former Catholic, they should have taught you that in religion class.
Getting back to the original post, this shows that the rapture right wing coupled with the corporatists cannot make a majority anymore.
That’s good news. If the rapture right haven’t learned by now that they are nothing but tools to keep the money men in power, they never will.
But it looks like they don’t matter at the polls either anymore . . .
Oh my, my, my a highroader you are. Will, I have witnessed your words to others in the past. I will not fall for your angelic posturing.I was never molested, however I was deeply impacted by the hypocrisy of my small community and the small congregation. It was a place where everyone knew everyones business. The priest was not a kid person. He got along well with the elderly. Every Sunday he railed on about sin this, sin that, but the place was full of SOB’s. True, your mother and father were supportive, that certainly helps. I cannot say the same thing….but I can say that I have felt the compressed world of being a sinner, being among sinners, and then dressing up and going to church on Sunday and everyone loves one another. It just wasn’t true.What bothers me is that if the stars were aligned…that people, possibly you, could vote to outlaw divorce, outlaw abortion, outlaw homogenital sex, outlaw infidelity, etc. I am scared of that shit. Probably won’t happen in my lifetime…but hey, anything is possible.What is it about religion that in one breath you all say you love one another and in the next breath you are closing ranks to make sure only likeminded people can enter the sacred walls. It’s that process that keeps the people, who may need some spiritual lifting, out of the church.Please stop passing your lovey dovey turn the other cheek off on me.In the name of religion many men have died, and in the name of religion many many men have killed others.I don’t plan on killing anyone…unless it is to defend our constitution.
Peace and Love AND Respect,T
Posturing? Hardly. You Were dissatisfied with your religious life, and you sought refuge from the hypocrisy that you saw around you every Sunday. It is nothing new, this corruption of the Church. The problem with our religion is that it strives for perfection, yet it is populated by imperfect people. No. We who are imperfect can never be perfect, ever since Ananias and Saphira the Church has been populated with sinners, some not so bad, some who were downright scoundrels. But… Ours is not a faith grounded in people. Throughout my life I have found that if you put your faith in people, you will inevitably be disappointed. Our faith is in not grounded in imperfection. One who puts his faith in something corruptible will always be disappointed and will be found wanting in the end. I know what it is you yearn for, your heart desires Perfection, it desires Truth, nobody wants to be deceived, even those who deceive others do not wish to be deceived. Even though it is possible that I may be deceiving you, I tell you that the reason I still hold on to this faith is because my loyalty belongs to God. I have faith that when I am dead, I will be immersed by Perfection, and I will no longer be enslaved to the imperfect. I will no longer be deceived by the liars and the usurpers who call themselves Christians. The Gospel is much more to me than a disembodied set of rules or code of conduct. It is my Truth, and I will not keep silent in the face of injustice.
Damn, I missed the party.
“And what I said about black people was that I don’t like when some of em walk around like I fucking owe them something because of something bad that happened to them 300 years ago.”
Will, I’m curious to hear an anecdote about how a black man walked around and acted like you, personally, owed them something.
Going back to Mr Kia’s question, how does Christianity fit into free speech, I would answer: If you would feel comfortable with a Muslim or a Hindu exercising the same right to free speech, then you’re in the clear. But I doubt you would be okay with, for example, Hindus pushing for a constitutional amendment to ban cheeseburgers. Or Muslims pushing for laws requiring women to exhibit modesty.
I’m Indian, so I can say something ridulously un-PC like “banning cheeseburgers” and not be a racist ;)
Thanks, Tara, beat me to it. . .
On yesterday’s comment, I was in a cranky mood because I am trying to lose weight, and it was too miserably cold and blustery to take my intended bike ride. For three days, the weather was beautifully accommodating, and then WHAM. Riding into a light to moderate headwind burns calories, but battling 25 mph winds is ridiculous; when you try to take a 10 second glide-rest, you STOP.
I know there were Native Americans in Kansas. Our state name reflects that, as does Wichita.Their population density was very low, which is true for their successors (us), and is true for all steppe regions worldwide, due to limited resources and what most people (on all the inhabited continents) consider to be an unpleasant climate (frigid winters, strong dessicating winds, torrid summers).
You can do it, as history has proved, but not many people are all that interested in the proposition. (Population densities in the tundra zon are even lower: people historically have not shown very much interest in that proposition either.)
The Great Plains Indians were nomadic, which is to say they moved with the seasons and game migrations. Eurasian steppe natives were also nomadic, following the annual grass cycle, originally as hunter-gatherers pursuing game for subsistence, later as shepherds and herdsmen. The Great Plains Indians’ rapid adoption of the horse for hunting and warfare is instructive–woodland and coastal Native Americans did not do this–because the horse was originally domesticated, and used for the same purposes, on the Central Asian steppe.
One question is, this: is permanent non-nomadic settlement feasible here? Indians were not inherently nomadic, as they prefered to build permanent villages where the environment allowed it.
Between 1990 and 2000, 60 Kansas rural counties lost population, and most of the rest showed only very small increases that may reflect people living longer, and in some instances immigration of Latino packing-plant workers and their families (some of whom are diversifying into retail businesses).
This phenomenon is occurring in several states. The entire STATE of North Dakota’s population shrank in the 1990’s.
White settlers who thought they could “better” use the land of the plains than those whom they drove off may have suffered delusional hubris. The Indians figured out how to survive here for many centuries. After only 150 years of the “modern” regime, things aren’t necessarily looking long-term sustainable (particularly when the water runs out).
On the religious issue, we need to get some historical facts straight. The Catholic nations Spain and Portugal spearheaded New World exploration, having successfully developed sea-based trade that reached Asia.
They found here lands of astonishing untapped riches.
The Protestant English and Dutch followed suit, staking claims in the northeast part of North America and some Caribbean islands. These were not primarily religious-freedom-seeking ventures, they were primarily financially motivated. The English Crown granted charters to noblemen and investors who organized and financed colonial settlement for one salient purpose: to increase their riches.
The colonists in virtually every instance were also looking for enterprise oppotunities. Did the Puritans establish Plymouth Colony to escape Anglican persecution? No. They were living in the Netherlands, a tolerant state. Secondly, they brought with them necessary craftworkers and agricultural laborers who were not Puritans. Thirdly, their colonization was paid for by investors, what we would call venture capitalists today, solely because they expected to earn a handsome profit.
Has the United States provided sanctuary for religious refugees? Unquestionably. Has this been the central driving force underlying America’s settlement and expansion? Not at all.Consider the Louisiana Purchase, without which today’s Kansans would not be living here. Where does one find any reference to an intention to provide a new sanctuary for Christians? In 1803, the young nation already allowed people to worship freely. The purchase was made with the intention of creating new profitable opportunities.
Lewis and Clark’s party may have had a clergyman (I am ignorant as to whether or not they did), but the expedition’s purpose was not to identify opportunities for missionary conversion of the natives, it was to perform a resource survey, and delineate potential trade routes between the Atlantic and Pacific. The expedition was most impressed with the Northwest’s enterprise-development potential, not the Great Plains’, but securing a connection required acquiring the lands between the two endpoints. At the same time, the Ohio-Mississippi waterway’s potential was appreciated, but France controlled the strategically crucial mouth of the Mississippi.
Did the tenets of Protestantism coincide with free-enterprise development to a greater degree than Catholicism did? Yes, as one can readily appreciate by comparing the economies and laws of the U.S. and Canada to those of Latin America.
But the key Protestant churches, Episcopal, Presbyterian and Congregational, whose members spearheaded America’s development in the early years, are today “liberal” in the eyes of the conservative Evangelicals. Actually the Presbyterian and Congregational churches were quite liberal then, in that they were not governed by any central authority. Moreover, the precept of a nation established by the people, of the people and for the people, and of elections for governing offices, rather than inheritance of them or granting of them by a king, were extremely liberal propositions at the time.
Many will interpret the election that the culture became more “liberal.” That really isn’t true. Is is actually the opposite. Conservatism is stronger than ever. One simply needs to check the research. Many daily newspaper readership is on the decline due to its liberal editorial boards. Media outlets such as FOX News is growing for a reason. Its really not complicated to figure out.
Here is a sad fact, however. 1 out of 10 Christians voted in the Kansas primary election. True!!
In the general election the Christian vote was higher eventhough they weren’t terribly motivated by the choices.
Many conservative Christians were disgusted with Republican leaders over scandals and spending priorities.
In states where there was a marriage amendment – percentages were even higher. Candidates come and go, but marriage, once destroyed, is hard to restore.
The best marketing Dems. can do for Republicans is to keep bringing leftest ideas and socialist infrastructures.
Apparently (another sad fact) is that it takes weightier issues to get out the evangelical vote – while the more mundain issues should be reason enough.
Though the media would like to think so – there isn’t “one” voice who speaks for all evangelicals. Just like there isn’t one voice who speaks for liberals.
“If I was a marriage counselor, I’d tell engaged couples to really find out about each other…”
Will, it’s pretty obvious you’ve never been married. Anyone who has been knows that there is no way to know everything about another person, even after years and years of marriage. Did Ted Haggard’s wife know about his gay indiscretions?
Many people (male and female) are pros at disguising their real selves to others. Then, too, people grow (emotionally) as they age at different rates.
Divorce happens. The church may not like it, but it does. And many times it’s better that a couple split than to put their children through endless years of battling parents and, often, abuse.
“In the general election the Christian vote was higher eventhough they weren’t terribly motivated by the choices.”
I’ve got news for you Bias, Christians vote democratic as well as republican. We don’t vote in lock step. Gasp! Some Christians are liberal.
As god is my witless
When 70% of the white evangelicals voted for the GOP in spite of the numerous sex and bribery scandals of their beloved GOP leaders, the messed up Iraq War and the national debt that Bush has made – then I don’t believe that evangelicals are voting their conscience – unless they have none.
JimG – I know what you mean about the Catholic church and those childhood friends you were speaking about. That kind of crap also happens in the Baptist Church – I had childhood friends being beaten by their father. What stopped him was the love and support of all the townspeople. The church was not the leader in helping the kids – it was the neighbors all knowing the truth and they all put a spotlight on the man and would not let up until he finally changed his ways.
Wife and child beaters don’t like their sinful ways to be public knowledge and they when they know their neigbhors will speak up and keep the pressure on them – they will either change or get the Hell out of town.
I’ve often said the Catholic Church is not to be blamed for the pedophile priests but they are to blame when the church tried to cover it up – that is where the church took the wrong stand. And to this day, the church is losing millions of dollars in lawsuits because they chose to uphold the pedophile priests.
The terrorist among us that we rarely hear about.
http://ww4report.com/node/2634
The thing about that lucee, is the abuse doesn’t stop, they just use different tactics that don’t show on the outside as much.
Bias, remember, a whopping majority didn’t like the interference on the Shiavo matter. A large majority believes in stem cell research. Evangelicals and Catholics may be the largest Christian denomination, but by far the MOST Christians are just your regular everyday run of the mill people who hold all sorts of mainstream beliefs. Evangelicals and Catholics can and are pro-progress.
Tara right on…and I would add, being told Happy Ramadan at Walmart, or having your kids partake in Hindu rituals at school too.
I sure wish that rapture would happen already so we can have the earth to ourselves.
Evangelicals and Catholics can and are pro-progress.
What do you mean by “progress?”
Means pro-liberal.
Opposite of regress.
“Pro-liberal?”
On what issues?
Peemom,Come on now, you aren’t suffering from the delusion that Christians in this country voted in Democrats because they share their liberal views and not as a means to punish the GOP for failing them, are you?
On all issues. I’m not saying they’re in the majority, just saying that there are some out there.
Ok. So what you really meant to say was:
SOME Catholics and Evangelicals can and are pro-progress.
Leftism, like islam, is by nature, regressive.
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Peemom,If she means it, I would endorse Hillary because of her conservative stance on immigration. (if she actually does something about it and isn’t just blowing smoke of course.) But that’s about as liberal or “pro-progress” (your words) as I get.:)
I’m going to hold you to that. Although I really doubt that you will. I am also against ILLEGAL immigration. I didn’t really have that much of a problem with a guest worker program. It’s not that I want to kick illegals out as much as I want to weed out the ones who are using us. I want the people who come here to WANT to be Americans.
Go ahead and hold me to that.
Scout’s honor.
XXX – I was responding to rm6046, not you. No disrespect to you intended (doubtful you will see this as the exchange was far up in the thread).
However, rm6046, mucho disrespect, cocksucker. Mucho.
“I sure wish that rapture would happen already so we can have the earth to ourselves.”
PM, I was thinking exactly the same thing today.
How’s your hangover today, Will?
“I sure wish that rapture would happen already so we can have the earth to ourselves.”
Let me guess, is that the constructive way of you liberals saying that you wish all Christians were dead? It is isn’t it? I thought so.
Drinking again, huh?
Does the rapture mean you all die? No I didn’t mean that. But hey, whatever works. Ok I didn’t mean that either.
But hey ya know, I’ve never been afraid of dying, and I”m not religious. I would imagine being religious and all dying shouldn’t be thought of as such a horrible thing, right?
Why is it that the far right act as if dying IS the worst thing on earth? We’re all going to die, our lives are really rather insignificant in the big scheme of things (unless you’re someone like Jesus, Ghandi, Thomas Jefferson)…
You make a difference in the lives directly around you, true, but most people will not be remembered in 200 years.
Who cares about being remembered? What’s important is for us to have a positive impact on those around us. It is conceited to think that our life’s purpose is to be remembered and honored perpetually after we’re dead. The only people who are worth remembering are people who never think of themselves!
If you think I was being conceited by wanting to leave some ‘legacy’…well ya know what I would like to leave a legacy, one that made the world a better place.
But as far as being remembered, I could care less. You really should re-read my post, I didn’t say anything about ME being remembered. I said most of us, meaning you, me..are insignificant.
I really don’t need some high and mighty fundy rightie giving ME a lecture on conceit and selfishness. I’m a bleeding- heart liberal, remember?
nice one p_mom…
Just remember, you need to dumb down anything you said to the righties to a first grade reading level, aka rush speak…
“Kamikaze, my death is gain.”-Jesus Freak, by DC Talk
One of my most memorable experiences was a trip to Arlington National Cemetery. There are all these huge tombstones dedicated to generals, admirals and others who obviously are to be remembered as people important in American history. When I went to John Kennedy’s grave, which is equally as lavish as any of the other’s, I noticed over by the side a small wooden cross with a very small flat headstones that simply had a birth and death date on it and the name “Robert Francis Kennedy”. I thought it was so cool that someone who was so important and well known in history was so humble in death.