“Since 1992, every national Republican electoral defeat has been accompanied by an obituary for the religious right,” David Kuo (in photo) wrote in a New York Times op-ed piece. “Every one of these obituaries has been premature — after these losses, the religious right only grew stronger.”
But Kuo, who wrote the book “Tempting Faith,” about the betrayal he felt when he was deputy director of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives, said there was been a “radical change in the attitudes of evangelicals.” He said that instead of directing their energies toward political campaigns, more evangelicals may spend their time helping the poor. One reason: A poll by Beliefnet.com found that nearly 60 percent of non-evangelicals have a more negative view of Jesus because of Christian political involvement.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- Chas on Open thread 11/24
- donndublin on Open thread 11/24
- BlueJay on Huckabee felt costs of campaign
- BlueJay on Huckabee felt costs of campaign
- ANTI on Open thread 11/24
- DavidB on Open thread 11/24
- okobserver on Open thread 11/24
- ANTI on Open thread 11/24
- ANTI on Open thread 11/24
- DavidB on Open thread 11/24
67 Comments
Doesn’t that fact mean exactly the opposite of what your header says Phillip? I don’t think the RR is in demise, just it’s involvement with Government is. And I’m well aware that it’ll likely circle around again. Definition of stupidity is when you keep making the same mistakes over and over again expecting different results. Christians always think this time it’ll be different, and like all the other times when Christianity is meshed with Government it ends up disasterous.
I’m sure it’s very discouraging to have them believe that God ‘elected’ those to power, if he’s on our side, and we elect those in his name, the RR expects that things will go their way. Then when it blows up in their face they can’t figure out why.
Maybe this line is the best line in the bible for a reason why”Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits….Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
pmom..
That Bible verse is extremely relavent today! The Gospel message has been skewed, watered down, trampled on, and used as a tool for political and financial gain by the very ones that should know the difference between right and wrong! They have risen to powerful positions in the churches and the media, and they promote themselves over Christ for the glory and honor of men.
My prayer is that this will draw more “Christians” to actually become more Christ-like.. and do what Jesus told us to do. The world is a needy place, and the workers are few.
I am far from a prophet, but it appears to me that just maybe the time is near for Christ to begin separating the sheep from the goats. Don’t be surprised to see major splits coming. My only hope is that when the time comes, I will be a sheep.. a good and faithful servant.
Sam, can you enlighten me on sheep and goats deal? I mean the background story. To me, it seems that the hardier goats would be priced more in the arid climates. Can also this be related to the goat-head worship?
Religion-based institutions should stick to emulating their God, and stay out of politics. If not, then they should have their tax-exempt status revoked for becoming involved in government. Iran is a theocracy, and look where that has taken it. The USA is a secular republic, and will only thrive as long as it stays that way.
I always found it interesting that a goat was used to lead sheep out of boxcar into the pens of the stockyard. The sheep followed the goat unknowlingly that they were being prepared for the slaughter.
The goat leader of the pack was appropriately called the “Judas Goat.’
Perhaps a lesson that following someone just because they know ‘a way’ is not necessarily a wise choice.
sam and jeff said the things that I agree with.Here’s another opportunity to post my favorite bit from Alice A. Bailey.
A Challenge
I challenge the thinkers of the world to drop their sectarianism, their nationalism, and their partisanships, and in the spirit of brotherhood to work in their particular nation, regarding it as integral part of a great federation of nations, – a federation that now exists on the inner side, but waits for the activity of the world thinkers to bring it to materialisation on the outer side. I charge them to work in the cause of religion, and in the field of that particular religion in which they, by an accident of birth or choice, are interested, regarding each religion as part of the great world religion. They must look upon the activities of their group, society or organisation, as demanding their help, just in so far, as the principles on which they are founded, and the techniques which they employ, serve the general good, and develop the realisation of Brotherhood.I ask you to drop your antagonisms and your antipathies, your hatreds and your racial differences, and to attempt to think in terms of the one family, the one life, and the one humanity. I would remind you that hatred and separateness have brought humanity to the present condition. I would add to that reminder, however, the fact that there is in the world today a large enough number of liberated men, to produce a change in the attitudes of mankind and in public opinion, if they measure up by an act of the will, to what they know and believe.I challenge you also to make sacrifices; to give yourself and your time, and your money, and your interest, to carry these ideas to those around you, in your own environment, and to the group in which you find yourself, thus awakening your associates. I call you to a united effort to inculcate anew the ideas of brotherhood and of unity. I ask you to recognise your fellow workers in all the groups and to strengthen their hands. I ask you to seal your lips to words of hatred and of criticism, and to talk in terms of brotherhood and of group relationships. I beg of you to see to it that every day is for you a new day, in which you face new opportunity. Lose sight of your own affairs, your petty sorrows, worries and suspicions, in the urgency of the task to be done, and spread the cult of unity, of love and of harmlessness.I also ask you to sever connection with all groups which are seeking to destroy and to attack, no matter how sincere their motive. Range yourself on the side of the workers for constructive ends, who are fighting no other groups or organisations, and who have eliminated the world “anti” out of their vocabulary. Stand on the side of those who are silently and steadily building for the new order – an order which is founded on love, which builds under the impulse of brotherhood, and which possesses a realisation of brotherhood, which is based on the knowledge that we are, each and all, no matter what our race, the children of the One Father, and who have come to the realisation that the old ways of working must go, and the newer methods must be given a chance.If you cannot yourself teach or preach or write, give of your thought and of your money, so that others can. Give of your hours and minutes of leisure, so as to set others free to serve the Plan; give of your money, so that the work of those associated with the New Group of World Servers may go forward with rapidity. Much time you waste on non-essentials. Many of you give little or nothing of time. The same is the case with money. Give as never before, and so make the physical aspects of the work possible. Some give of their very need, and the power they thereby release is great. Those on the inner side are grateful for the giving by those who can give only at great personal cost. Others give of what they can spare, and only when it needs no sacrifice to give. Let that condition also end, and give to the limit, with justice and understanding, so that the age of love and light may be more rapidly ushered in. I care not where or to whom you give, only that you give, – little if you have but little of time and money, much if you have much. Work and give, love and think and aid those groups who are building and not destroying, loving and not attacking, lifting and not tearing down.I challenge you above all to a deeper life, and I implore you for the sake of your fellow men to strengthen your contact with your own soul, so that you will have done your share in making revelation possible; so that you will have served your part in bringing in the light, and will therefore be in a position to take advantage of that new light and new information, and so be better able to point the way and clear the path for the bewildered seeker at that time. Those who are not ready for the coming events, will be blinded by the emerging light, and bewildered by the revealing wonder; they will be swept by the living breath of God, and it is to you that we look to fit them for the event.
Tracy,
How exactly can one DROP one’s racial characteristics? Race is the ONLY thing about yourself that you can’t change, that is why it’s so powerful.
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Luke (Ian),Drop your race – come over to the white side…Darth
Roo…
Matthew 25
31″When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.34″Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37″Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40″The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
41″Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44″They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45″He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46″Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
“I ask you to drop your antagonisms and your antipathies, your hatreds and your racial differences, and to attempt to think in terms of the one family, the one life, and the one humanity. I would remind you that hatred and separateness have brought humanity to the present condition.”
No mention of “characteristics”.
ISam, my question is why the goats and sheep. Since Bible’s parables are written using the day’s culture, and I am not exactly familiar with the cost/benefit of goat vs sheep, I want to figure out the stigmas of being the goats, e.g., the “scapegoat,” etc. While at it, also why Judaism (and Muslim) forbid pork products. Which, jokingly, I have known to complain that the best way to deal with Jerusalem is to give them to the Chinese and have them turn it into a pig farm. Politically incorrect? You bet’cha. But so is the bloody trans-generational hatred over a small parcel of land claimed to be the Holy Land.
kansassam just proved that the conservatives are better than the liberals. The sheep on the RIGHT received the kingdom of heaven…
HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Just joshin
Just listening now to MSNBC talk about the repubs and their infighting.
I see how fast the r’s are running from the evangelicals. Hell, even Kuos wrote a book about their splits.
But of course, it is the democrats who are infighting and breaking apart. heheheh
Why? Because they dont march in lock step to some centrally issued talking points? When did diversity of opinion become a BAD thing?
The republicans disagree and it is a good thing, but democrats have differing opinions and stances and that is a bad thing?
Hypocricy, thy name is MSM.
Roo…
They herded the sheep and goats together… I don’t think there was any stigma like pigs. I think it’s more about how they respond to the shepherd.
In simplest terms from a children’s SS lesson:
Discussion: Why sheep and goats? God often describes his people as sheep in scripture. Sheep listen to their shepherd, and follow him. They look to him for all their needs and will suffer without him. What are goats like? Goats are stubborn. They resist being told what to do. They’ll eat (take in) almost anything, even garbage. People who please God do what he says and look to him for guidance. People who resist God and want to do their own thing are stubborn, and end up accepting the lies and garbage of this world. The goats in the lesson thought they were doing God’s work, but they were obviously not listening to how he wanted it done, or they were doing it for their own goals, not his. He didn’t even know them.
All this excessive attention to sheep and goats… do you have a problem?
gsterOnly with goats…
gster–NAAAA-AAAA-AAY.
TRACY..
I promise to never call you an “old goat” again… LOLOL!!!!
Sure! A goat today, ?? tomorrow!!BEWARE: it’s a slippery slope thru the barnyard!!
Four legs good.Two legs baaa-aaa-aad!!(Orwell’s Animal farm)
Francis of Assisi, Luther, Wycliffe, Bunyan, Wesley, Booth, Spurgeon, Moody, and many more suffered at the hands of the Church for their willingness to attend the King’s business without fear or favor of man.More recent examples include A.W. Tozer, Francis Schaeffer, and Dietrich Bonhoeffer — all of whom have gained nominal popularity once they were safely dead.
The religious right will always be around.
They are just getting some perspective adjustment.
Some of them are unhappy with Republcans for not doing more to force society into fitting their ideals. Those folks do not understand that they are tools for the Republican party and that society is NEVER going to be changed by governmnet to conform to their faith.
Others among the faithful are realizint that the social and evironmental policies of the Democrat party better fit the work of Christ.
Interesting thing perspective.
The bit about the sheep on the right and the left? YOU know how the ones on the right went to heaven?
Well, if Jesus was facing them, the sheep to his right would actually be on the left from the perspective of the sheep!
“Others among the faithful are realizint that the social and evironmental policies of the Democrat party better fit the work of Christ.” Yeah, if the work of Christ is to support abortion, gay “marriage,” and terrorists. The “religious right,” whoever they are (since something like 60% of the country says they are evanglical and 75% say they are Christian) will continue to vote for those candidates that most closly identify with their values. In the meantime, make no mistake, “they’re” still out there running soup kitchens and sending all they can to help those that are in need. How many thousands or millions would have starved if not for the money and food given by those you hate?
That’s what the article is about, Gumby.The people of the church going back to doing christs work (like soup kitchens), and leaving politics out of religion.That’s a good thing.
Of course you didn’t actually READ the NYTimes article,did you Gumby?
I was brought up Catholic. I have since left the faith because I don’t believe in the Catholics political system. That and having done a little recent research on the Catholic faith. I don’t believe in any flavor of Christianity anymore. When you get a flavor, it gets political, and wrecks the church. I am now just a Christian. Read the Bible, catch a service here and there and try to live correctly.
Politics and religion don’t work well together.
Sol, we agree on that.Religion is, and should be,an inward journey,not acting out in a political way.
Tracy
That is the rub for me at least. Why do I have to not let my religious beliefs color my views fro they are a part of me, yet a secularist can bring all their beliefs with them. I don’t want to force my belifs on anyone, and don’t think you can but I also can’t and won’t leave them at the doorstep. Seems to me secularism or liberalism is as much of a belief system as conservatism and religion is.Not trying to cause a firestorm but this does concern me
Hawk, certainly your religion affects your values and morals, which in turn help you make your political decisions.Secularism and or liberism are not intitutions as such, they are points of view.The problem is that the church, as an institution had traded traditional roles (missions, charities) for political roles as candidate supporters.Thus the membership of the churches expected their candidates to actually do what they want.Didn’t (and won’t) happen.For many reasons.
Well welcome to posting Fundy.
Like Tracy said. Try reading a header sometime. Address THAT and THEN come on after me.
Lotsa room for ya in the peanut gallery til then.
In a democracy, politics is a reflection of people’s personal value systems and how they want the government to operate within those values. Therefore, if there are religious people with religious belief structures, religion will be involved in politics. The debate comes down to this. Who gets to decide the moral direction of the country, secular humanists or people of religious faith?
Of course, you have many people who consider themselves religious who don’t want the government to reflect their religious values. That gives way for humanism to come in and rule because some form of ideology has to.
Don’t be fooled, secularism is not neutrality. Secularism means only that all ideas are valid except religious ones. So the whole idea of secularism violates the 1st Ammendment right to freedom of religion. Think just for a moment, the first Ammendment is free speech and freedom of religion. Hmmm, why would they lump those all together?
Christ tells us to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. That is a major directive of Christianity. When you take that away, you are violating our Constitutional right to practice our religion.
And lets not fool ourselves people. Yes the RR is unhappy with the Republican party, because of many reasons. Some of which include the war and not standing strong in conservative principle, but anyone who believes that the RR is suddenly going to start voting Democrat is engaging is wishful thinking.
Three words: Judges, Judges, Judges. We are ruled by judges, not elected representatives, and as long as Democrats put Ginsburgs on the bench and the GOP puts Scalias on the bench we will continue to vote for Scalias.
The two are inseparable. Stay involved in politics people. It’s not only your right, but a good idea.
Keith, nobody is attempting to outlaw or quell in any way your zeal for evangelism.That’s not even what the story is about, the bottom line is that churches and their people expected their candidates to actually reflect their christian values.Like I said, didn’t and won’t happen. Look where it got Jimmy Carter. Nowhere.Nobody is saying, hey, you’re a christian-you can’t vote or be involved.Seculars and liberals also push many christian values, they just don’t use churches to do that.Well, some liberals might.
Yeah, you saw how many democratic rallies were held at black churches this year. All a part of the ploy by Democrats to move to the center on religious issues. The religious right and religious lefts are equal in this issue of serving the poor and weary. Of course they differ on the methods, but the major difference between the parties is who stands for religious freedom in the public square. Some democrats do, but the leadership, and those they appoint to the bench do not.
Keith, I’m all for religous freedom.Can we have a menorah beside the cross?With a Buddha statue right on the other side?What about the Native Americans?Wicca anyone?
Keith?
Let’s see just who is trying to force their beliefs down whose throat.
I’ll start.
YOU Keith have posted opposed to a womans right to choose. You’d like to take that right away.
What has a woman who chooses to end her pregnancy taken away from you?
I am sure you are against gay people being married. YOU would like to deprive them of that.
What would two gay people being married deprive YOU of?
Would you like to see organized prayer in schools? Your posts suggest that. I do not deprive you or your kid the right to pray in school so long as that prayer so long as that prayer is not disruptive.I am keeping nothing from you.
I do not choose for my son to be led in prayer at school. Why do you want to force it on me?
I’ll be waiting your reply
JR, I think he’s lookin’ up menorah.Be patient.
All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23)
The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. (Jeremiah 17:9)2
While we were enemies, we were reconciled by the death of His Son. (Romans 5:10)
Men love darkness rather than light, for their deeds were evil. (John 3:19)
There is none righteous, not even one;there is none who understands,There is none who seeks for God;They have all turned aside,together they have become useless;There is none who does good,there is not even one.Their throat is an open grave,with their tongues they keep deceiving,The poison of asps is under their lips;whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness;their feet are swift to shed blood,destruction and misery are in their paths,and the path of peace have they not known.
There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Tracy,Having all those things next to each other might get a little crowded. How about having a menorah in a seperate display? I have no problem with Walmart saying Happy Hanukkah as long as Target can say Merry Christmas. Wiccans can have their representative 6 symbols spread out across the country for all six members of that religion. And last I checked a vast majority of Native Americans were Christians. I think we’re pretty much on the same page here. Christians support all religious freedom. Did you hear about the ritual tea case?
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week910/feature.html
Supreme Court and Brazilian Religious RitualsNovember 4, 2005
União do Vegetal, or UDV, originated in Brazil and has followers throughout South America. The faith blends Christian beliefs with tribal South American traditions. Central to the faith is receiving Communion through hoasca, a tea made from two plants unique to the Amazon rain forest. The tea contains a small amount of dimethyltryptamine — a hallucinogenic ingredient strictly controlled under federal drug laws. When UDV sought to import hoasca from Brazil, customs officials seized the tea and tried to block further imports. UDV took the government to court…
UDV has picked up some hefty support from a broad range of religious groups, including the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, the National Association of Evangelicals, the American Jewish Committee, and the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty — all fearing the court may cut back on the protections of the federal law.
JR,As somebody some few years ago noted, anyone who thinks there isn’t prayer in schools hasn’t been around during finals!
Keith,A lot of religions around the world have used hallucinations/visions as part of their spiritual understanding. Revelations reads well as an extended hallucinatory experience. Too bad the DEA has to get involved in religious persecution.
For God’s sake (pun intended) can’t we all just be happy with each other’s religious or spiritual beliefs. If it works for you, then I am happy for YOU. Just don’t try to push it on me and I won’t try to push my belief system on you.
Fair enough?
Everyone has a place where they can find comfort and understanding in this (insert) world. I am okay with yours, so why would you care (negatively) about mine?
You say Merry Christmas to me. I reply by saying Happy Harley-Davidson to you.
You smile – I smile – now let’s turn our attention on the SERIOUS problems of the world.
PS: Flamers – the HD part was a JOKE.
Can’t argue with that JR. You win. I don’t know what I was thinking.
Understand the debate.Religion vs. Secular Humanism.We choose to vote our values as do you.
There is no right to murder in the constitution, but somehow one was discovered. So we would like to return the constitution to its “Original Intent.”
It is the same with marriage. Marriage’s “Original Intent” was for one man to marry one woman. Not two men, not one man and 14 women, not one woman and one horse. Progress has it’s limitations. There is a point where it ceases to be progress and becomes a regression.
People can pray aloud if their religion permits them to. You are trying to force people to stop practicing their religion. You would like to violate the Constitution by keeping these religious beliefs out of politics.
All laws are based on some moral or ethical foundation. Who gets to decide in a democracy? Elected representatives or Judges? People of faith or those who’ve been deceived to believe faith should not be involved in the decision making?
You tell me.
Anyway, we are completely off course here. I was simply responding to some earlier posts about keeping religion out of politics. All I was saying was, you cannot seperate them. There are too many people like me, and not enough people like you.
Keith, under exisiting Supreme Court case law, the state cannot lawfully restrict religious belief, but may place reasonable restrictions on religious practice. Using your example, regulation of “praying out loud” for time, place or manner would be acceptable; regulation of the religious belief in the efficacy of prayer out loud would not.
But you’re right; this thread has deviated from its original course. So I’ll be quiet henceforth.
This is a good commentary on the US Constitution by Bill Maher. It’s funny, but all to the point….
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1117-32.htm
Thanks for the link, WSC; I needed that!
You can separate them Keith. And I don’t think there are as many people like you than you think. Most of the people I know just looking around here are normal every day people, they attend church maybe once a month. I don’t hear them mention God hardly ever. Fundies are NOT in the majority, and most people don’t want religion dictating the laws.
This is the true spirit of Christmas and the true spirit of Christ…..
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15751409/
This is the story of Kansas City’s Secret Santa. I am not a Christian, although I believe in Jesus (a story for another time) but this story brought tears to my old, cynical eyes.
This what Jesus’ love was supposed to be about – not war, not vilification of gays, not fund raising for Republican candidates.
This is Jesus’ love in it’s purest form.
Merry Christmas, Secret Santa, I, for one, will be praying for you.
I posted that story on my blog too because I found it so endearing. I wish there were more people like that.
I have no problem with Religious Right and their beliefs as long as they know that where their freedom of religion stops is where my freedom of religion starts.
In other words, the RR does not have the right to cram their beliefs down my throat.
My own personal belief is that too many of these Religious Righties are just superficial Christians and, in fact, have givden the word Christian a bad taste in the general population’s mouth. That is the real tragedy here.
So no matter how many Bible verses you recite or how many little Bible stories you tell – it all comes down to the actions of these Religious Righties that will be remembered by the society that the RR says they want to change for the better.
There’s a special, unique feeling you get when personally helping someone through a rough time.
Has anyone seen the commercial on TV where a guy picks up a toy dropped by a baby in a stroller and hands it to the mom? The mom then does something small for someone else, who goes on to do something for someone, and so on.
Random acts of kindness are all around us, most in small ways. Not only does it give the person on the receiving end a good feeling, but it gives to the giver, too.
Let’s keep this in mind, especially as the holidays approach. Forget religion. This is about humanity and caring.
The reason for the corrupt politics and the greedy ambitious planning of so many of the world’s leading men, can be found in the fact that the spiritually minded men and women have not assumed, as their spiritual duty and responsibility, the leadership of the people.They have left the power in the wrong hands and permitted the selfish and the undesirable to lead.
Corrupt politics is okay with the evangelicals so long as the corruption benefits their side. For the past 6 years I have seen no envangelical get upset about the Republicans and their greed. In fact, in the electgions 70% of white evangelicals voted Republican even knowing about all the money and sex scandals. So, obviously, morals do not play a very major role in the evangelical’s vote.
He is the World Teacher and not a Christian teacher.He Himself told us that He had other folds, and to them He has meant as much as He has meant to the orthodox Christian.They may not call Him Christ, but they have their own name for Him and follow him as truly and faithfully as their Western brethren.
Tracy: That stuff sounds good, but IMHO, it is new age tripe.
Well said sunny
Hey ya got a whole branch of fundamentalists who say Jesus was rich and that wealth is a reward from God. I don’t remember what these folks call themselves but the Eagle religion section did an article on them last Saturday.
Those folks are REAL blame the victim kinda people. If you are wealthy and happy? Hey it don’t matter how ya got there! God is smiling on you!
Poor and miserable and unhappy? Well then sin layeth at the door! Your suffering is your own fault!
Sounds like Republicans….
Actually, as much as we need to get religion out of politics, we also need to get the politics out of religion.
Jed – that would seem to be a problem the Churches would have to deal with. If they choose to let politicians meddle then they should be called for it.
hmmm,What do you think Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Terry Randal, Donald Wildmon, Terry Fox and all those other preachers who preach politics are? In fact, most of the big-name preachers got to be big-name by practicing politics, not religion. When they do that, they’re destroying everything religious in themselves and their message.
I don’t consider Pat Robertson to be a Christian leader with all the stupid statements he has made in the past few years.
And if you will notice, God has a way of taking down those preachers who lose their focus from the spiritual message and focus more on the politics and money. Many power preachers have been brought to their knees when they get too big for their britches.
Thankd WSC – I too hope there is a special place in heaven/paradise for him. When I lived in IL there was a guy who dropped gold coins in Salvation Army kettles.
“It is the same with marriage. Marriage’s “Original Intent” was for one man to marry one woman. Not two men, not one man and 14 women, not one woman and one horse. Progress has it’s limitations. There is a point where it ceases to be progress and becomes a regression.”
So…. It’s ok for keith to post homophobic shit like that…….but not ok of Ian to post his racist shit?
Tell me AGAIN how the WE opposes bigotry and hate?
Marriage’s “Original Intent” was for one man to marry as many women as he could and if he didn’t get any of them pregnant, there’s always the slave maid.Where did I get this information, why the Old Testiment of course.
You radical Christians should read your own Bible once in a while.
Tracy,Leftism is a “point of view?”Right! I guess when Stalin ordered mass-executions of Eastern Orthodox priests, blew up their churches and forced the few remaining Russians who were Eastern Orthodox Christians to practice their religion underground, he was just giving them his “point of view?”
I guess it’s the Chinese Communist Party’s view that religion be outlawed and practicing Christians be “discouraged” from speaking publicly about their religious beliefs is just the benign Leftist “point of view” that you are speaking of?
Sigh. . . definitions, Will, definitions.
Otto, stick around a while, if you can. I regaled the regulars some time back about (some) of your history (do you still have a feebie stationed outside your window?–hope not! ;-). You really ought to include that outrage in your bio, IMHO (oh well–what do I know. . ).
Sunny,Enough people have considered Robertson a christian leader that he’s sitting on, by last count, about a half a billion $ that came from donations or investing donations.
In politics, left-wing, the political left or simply the left are terms that refer to the segment of the political spectrum typically associated with any of several strains of, to varying extents, socialism, green politics, anarchism, communism, social democracy, progressivism, American liberalism or social liberalism, and defined in contradistinction to its polar opposite, the right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics
Definitions, man! Definitions!
Otto,Not to mention Lot, who after failing at pimping his daughters, got shitfaced and boffed them himself!