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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Nov. 10, 2006 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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81 Comments
Reposting this because it got wiped out in the purge of another open thread. Entertaining fictional read. Applicable to current world politics.
snip- I was waiting for him on New Year’s Eve 2005. I didn’t see him enter. I looked up from the book I was fitfully reading and he was standing in the shadows again. I didn’t dial 911 this time, nor demand any more proof. I waved him to the leather wingchair and said, “Would you like something to drink?”
“Scotch,” he said. “Single malt if you have it.”
I did.
snip- He stood and set the Scotch glass back in its place on my sideboard. “How, we wonder in my time,” he said softly, “can you ignore the better part of a billion people who say aloud that they are willing to kill your children . . . or condone and celebrate the killing of them? And ignore them as they act on what they say? We do not understand you.”
http://www.dansimmons.com/news/message/2006_04.htm
“Describe how the world should be according to your viewpoints. Since your pro-life how would you deal with unwanted pregnacies? Would you have separation of Church and state? Allow multiple religions? Would law be secular based or biblical? Allow divorce?”Posted by: .morg | November 09, 2006 at 09:33 AM
I don’t think any one person should dictate how the worldor a particular government should be.
Unwanted pregnancies? Let’s describe the fickled natureof laws.
Teratogenic chemicals, radiation, physical affects doing harmagainst the fetus therefore causing harm to the unborn. You can’t have it both ways, either it’s a fetus or it’s a human being; no law suits should be allowed right?
How about sueing your OB/GYN doctor when he/she makes a mistake and the baby is born somewhat less than whole. The OB/GYN Doctor was dealing with a fetus, a non-human according to pro choice people and therefore should not be held liable.
I could go on, but I think you get the picture about how we, as a society only apply the term human being as it becomes convenient for us. Either you’re a human being before you are born or you are not.
Separation of Church and State. There already is a separation ofchurch and state. We, in the U.S. do not have a mandantory religion like the Church of England was back in the day. This concept was the intention of the founding fathers not to disallow members of a church to participate in their society. If some do no want to not display the ten commandments or a manger scene at City Hall, I’m okay with that.
Multiple religions. Yes, of course and there are multiple religions in the U.S. isn’t there?
Laws can be secular based and respects the tennants of the various faiths. We are reminded of the passage when in the Bible they complained about the taxes. Jesus held up a coin and asked who was on the coin. He then said, “Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s.” That means the coin was man-made, made by a government ruling over the people, so the tax should be payed back by the people living in the government.
Obviously, this blog would not be the proper forum to include a lengthy legal argument on what should be held as the ‘Will’ of the people and the rule of law.
Divorce is allowed for in the Bible and gives fairly clear guidance for seeking a divorce. That’s a non-issue as far as allowance is concerned.Do I think there are too many divorces? Yes, of course there are and divorces are granted for almost any reason.
re-posting too :D
AMERICA HELD HOSTAGE
DAY 2122
Presidency held hostage:802 Days left.
Congress held hostage:57 Days left.
HAVE A NICE DAY
OK, loyal posters, the Eagle Intern has left the building.
I wanted to thank both you loyal bloggers that have made my internship both enlightening and entertaining, and to let you know what an incredible group of people are behind the faces on the left.
No, Phillip didn’t show me the door for being too conservative; I graduate next month with a Master’s in Communication (from WSU) and am starting my career in sales and marketing.
Contrary to what some may believe, the Eagle Editorial board is composed of a wonderful group of sincere individuals that know when to get serious, enjoy a good laugh, and are always very respectful of people who don’t share their opinion–at least they did in front of me! I was very blessed for this opportunity.
And BTW, I am near the tail end of the Baby Boomers, so I was spanked as a child- and my two healthy, well adjusted, almost adult kids will attest to the fact I believed in it through their childhood.
So posters, keep posting- the Editorial board does read and enjoy the healthy conversations of you, the “citizen journalists.”
Good luck in your future endeavors Angie. Enjoy your time as a graduate student. Passing out all those papers, assignment sheets and being a general gopher actually allows more freedom than you think. ;)
So you’re going into “sales and marketing.” Come on ANGIE, you can’t have it both ways … which is it, sales or marketing? Red or Blue state? Democrat or Republican? Sedgwick County or Johnson County? Right or left, up or down?
Just kidding … hopefully, you don’t have to deal with those confounding questions anymore!
Angie, we wish you luck in your future career.
J.Wink
Congrats Angie. I too came from the baby Boom and knew all too well the joys of eating dinner standing up (after getting spanked). As did my son. As do my grandkids.
A small girl is sent to bed by her father. Five minutes later:
“Da-ad…”
“What?”
“I’m thirsty. Can you bring me a drink of water?”
“No. You had your chance. Lights out.”
Five minutes later: “Da-aaaad…”
“WHAT?”
“I’m THIRSTY…Can I have a drink of water??”
“I told you NO! If you ask again I’ll have to spank you!!”
Five minutes later… “Daaaa-aaaad…”
“WHAT??!!”
“When you come in to spank me, can you bring me a drink of water?
Uh dude, if your kids have to stand up after being spanked, you’re not spanking, you’re beating.
I was spanked, I believe in spanking (not all but most kids…I certainly do NOT spank my autistic son- it doesn’t work anyway). I never once had to stand up after a spanking, nor did my kids.
Speaking of which, does anyone remember a piece that either KAKE or KWCH did where they were doing a piece on spanking, and the photo they used was of a child with bruises on their face?
I was so enraged at that segment, to infer that spanking is the same as beating a child to bruises was offensive to me.
I hear you Mom. Ever since Dr. Spock, kids have gone to hell in a hand basket.
p-m – there should have been a bit of a ;^) on that – they are nowhere near that. In fact, the funny thing is that we are all a bit ‘rough-and-tumble’ so boo-boos are a fact of life. The little smack they get on the behind is nothing compared to their ordinary play. However, it is the ACT is spanking them on the bottom that makes clear to them that we disaprove. 5 minutes of time-out then lets them think about it. Then it is back to playing.
How do you give your kid a time out when you are at the store? When kids are most likely to throw a fit because they want and you won’t give it to them. A little swat on the most padded part of their body, and all is well again :-)
I feel much better now hmmm, thanks for clarifying that.
Angie, how’s it feel that what Wichita is going to remember you for is “spanking humor”?Oh, well.
Take your good sense of humor with ya’ and it won’t matter.
sol – absolutely. I think the key is that if we have a tight loving connection with the child then the mere act of strong disapproval gets their attention.
I have found the same thing works with teachers. If the child knows the teacher as someone who loves them then when the teacher has to discipline it works.
Here is a question I hope somebody can answer-It is reported that the Senate is now 51 to 49 with the Democrats in control, but Leiberman and Jeffords are Independents, making the Senate 49 to 49 to 2.I know there is an explaination.
There is no requirement that things go by Party line. remember, political parties do not exist in the Constitution. It just requires 51 votes to organize the Senate. Jeffords and Lieberman have already said they will caucus with the Dems.
Think of a multi-party system where they put together a cialition totalling at least 51%
fleettwood, the two independents have indicated they will caucus with the Democrats, which, as I understand it, makes them part of the majority for things such as committee assignments, etc.It is thus anticipated that they will be part of the Dem voting bloc.BTW, Jeffords retired; his replacement from Vermont ran as a socialist, IIRC.
So the Democrats have a Socialist in their group?Perfect!
Yes they do. It is common that a coalition gets built that way. For example, the current coalition government in Israel includes a Settler party that advocates ethnically cleansing Israel and purging out all non-Jews. Hopefully that view does not prevail.
hmmmm…I bet there are a few Christians in Israel that feel the same way.
Expect some Repubs to also vote with the Dems on some issues. As time goes on, the same will hold true for some Dems voting “against their party.” It happens.
It isn’t going to be as easy as it looks, although it will be good that the Dems will have a voice again.
RD, I fully expect the President to bypass the Democratic leadership and go to those individual Dem Senators and Congressmen whose personal views are closer to the Administration’s position to seek majorities on tight issues. Nothing wrong with this, other Presidents have done the same thing; but, this is my interpretation of his use of the term “bipartisanship”, which is based upon my understanding of how he operated as Governor of Texas.
Iraq is a mess. A few of the democrats ran on the “We can do better” platform. Now they will need to prove it. I think they and the repubs will need to work together to accomplish that.
It will be a win win. Bush says “See, I fixed it” and the Dems can say “See, we did do better.”
The idea of breaking Iraq into three “States” or “Countries” is still kicking around. It will have to be Iraq’s “idea” and the oil money must be divided fairly, but what do y’all think about it?
Sol, my uninformed thoughts are that: 1) such a plan would be highly objectionable to Turkey, a NATO ally, due to the issues with the Kurds Turkey faces (same, to some extent, regarding Iran, which also has a Kurdish minority population which can, from time to time, be restive); 2) to get the Sunnis to agree, they would need to be convinced of the fairness of the split of oil proceeds (as you imply); however, what the Sunnis think is fair vs. the Shia and Kurds would likely be far apart, and, in my view, would likely be the reason this approach could fail. With that said, such a plan actually recognizes the trumping of national unity by tribal or ethnic unity and on that basis alone, should be considered (even though the Administration has said, in the past, it’s a nonstarter). The key is the oil revenue.
Sol – a fairly good idea BUT … how do handle the ethnic cleansing of the regions and how do you handle the cities, particularly Baghdad.
Yep, the cokehead really did make a mess.
It’s really simple.It’s time for the Iraqi democracy and it’s leaders to request our departure. And it’s time for us to oblige.We won the initial battle, caught Saddam, initiated democracy.MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.Now we can come home victorious and respect the sovereignty of the Democracy we started.Win-win.The Iraqi PM wins when he stands up to us.We win by leaving with democracy in place.
Beyond breaking up the country, what can be done? No religion will allow the other to be in control. No religion will feel that the government is fairly balanced.
They won’t be civil until we leave. We can’t leave until they are civil.
What I would like to see happen and won’t for many reasons is to tell the Iraq Gov’t Hey, six months after Saddam swings, we pull out 2% of our troops each month. Six months after that, we start pulling 10% each month. So you better get your poop in a group real quick.
“The idea of breaking Iraq into three “States” or “Countries” is still kicking around. It will have to be Iraq’s “idea” and the oil money must be divided fairly, but what do y’all think about it?”
It will have to be Iraq’s idea. We don’t want to give them the idea that we want it.America (the North at least) did not think that becoming two countries was a good idea, so we fought the Civil War.At first glance, the three countries seems to be a good idea, but who knows.My head hurts.
hmmm, perhaps the cities could be treated as “open cities”? Just an idea.
Perhaps the national organization could be done under an approach similar to the Articles of Confederation attempted in our country. With the benefit of this experience, perhaps a document creating a nation based upon a confederation of states, without the problems contained in the U.S. version, could be adopted and agreed to. Or, perhaps the Canadian model might be instructive?
With reference to the ethnic cleansing issue, third party forces in the area to keep this under control? Resettlement assistance? I don’t have any novel ideas on this.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_47/b4010001.htm?campaign_id=rss_magzn
Can Anyone Steer This Economy?
Global forces have taken control of the economy. And government, regardless of party, will have less influence than ever
Sometime next year–perhaps around Christmas 2007, if current trends continue–the U.S. will hit a milestone. For the first time in recent memory, the cost of imported goods and services will exceed federal revenues. In other words, Americans will soon pay more to foreigners than they do to their national government.
We’re almost there now. Imports cost us about $2.2 trillion a year; the federal government collects $2.4 trillion in revenues. Why is that important? Because for the past 70 years, Washington has been the 800-pound gorilla, more powerful by far than any other force in the U.S. economy. That’s not true anymore. The federal government remains plenty influential, but the global economy is more so.
Would it be legal to tax outsourced labor?
We are no longer truly in charge of the USA
http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?type=hotStocksNews&storyID=2006-11-10T145152Z_01_L10751035_RTRUKOC_0_US-MARKETS-FOREX.xml
By David McMahon
NEW YORK (Reuters) – The dollar hit new 2-1/2 month lows against the euro and an 18-month low against sterling on Friday after a top official said China’s plans for diversifying its $1 trillion reserves included looking at currencies.
The dollar tumbled for a second straight session after Zhou Xiaochuan, the Chinese central bank governor, said that China planned to diversify its assets across different currencies and investment instruments, including in emerging markets.
Analysts noted that China has pointed to such plans before, but the news rekindled worries that any diversification by China away from the dollar, which analysts reckon make up round 70 percent of its reserves, could hurt the greenback.
The news also provided a good excuse for speculators to sell the dollar, especially coming amidst rate rises by other central banks that are starting to erode the dollar’s relative interest rate appeal for yield-hungry investors.
The weakining of the dollar can be directly related to the Liberals who just got elected.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAJoking :-)
Now THIS is a storm! 5000 miles across, 350 mph winds …
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/11/09/nasa-peers-into-the-eye-of-a-monster-storm-on-saturn/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fciclops.org%2Fview.php%3Fid%3D2313&frame=true
Well has anyone noticed all the verbose conservative asshats who keep harping on:”The Dems are gonna’ impeach and investigate us in an unfair way!”, meme?
It’s so damned transparent that they are trying to villanize anybody who stands up to GOP lawbreakers!
Doesn’t anybody remember,Bill Clinton, Bill Clinton!!
That poor schmuck got a bj and they wanted him hanged.Now these asshats have trashed the constitution, broken numerous federal and international laws,but if we call them on it,it’s evil and unamerican.Now that the poop hit the fan,they wanna be Rodney King all of a sudden?It’s fucking pathetic to see BillO treating dems like little schoolkids who just pissed in class. That’s all ya’ hear from his bully pulpit, that they’re gonna stalemate govt with investigations.What obvious phony bullshit he’s putting out already, to influence public opinion about ENFORCING THE LAW!!
RED STATE RABBLE:
Kansas: What’s Next?The AP report on the Kansas school board election notes:
Come January, moderates will be calling the shots and one of the first things they’re expected to do is rework the science testing standards for students to once again make them more pro-evolution oriented.
The article goes on to say:
The anti-evolution standards made Kansas the punch line for countless jokes, portraying the state as ignorant and backward.
Control of the board has changed between the two factions since 1998, resulting in anti-evolution standards for student testing in 1999, evolution-friendly ones in 2001 and anti-evolution ones in 2005.
Gov. Kathleen Sebelius wants to strip the board of most of its duties, reducing it to an advisory panel with most of the power vested in an appointed secretary of education. The state had an elected superintendent of public instruction until 1969.Evolution won’t be the only issue on the moderate majority’s agenda.
The board likely will dump Education Commissioner Bob Corkins, who was hired by conservatives last year. He lacked any experience as a school administrator, supports charter schools and vouchers and opposed increased school funding when he operated a conservative think tank.
Take a break guys:
http://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/holiday/usmc2006/playmovie.asp?isc=gdh1111
My boy is one of the honor guards for the big birthday party today, 231 years.
Semper fidelis
Hank
“What I would like to see happen and won’t for many reasons is to tell the Iraq Gov’t Hey, six months after Saddam swings, we pull out 2% of our troops each month. Six months after that, we start pulling 10% each month. So you better get your poop in a group real quick.”
That’s a TIMETABLE!
(please be patient while i control my gasping. thank you.)
This is similar to what many liberals have been suggesting for some time, but others answered that it was cut & run.
But I digress. I agree with plan, but would rather see the percentages higher. At least 5% instead of 2. And why 6 month intervals? Why not 2 or 3?
The Iraq government will do nothing until they’re forced to. Wasn’t that proven with their elections? The U.S. pretty much set the dates for those (probably who ran, as well), and the Iraq government followed. But why wait until Saddam swings? They’ve already started a new trial. Considering how long this last one dragged on, don’t expect this one to be over in weeks. Beginning Jan. 1, 2007, we start a phase-out. Let the generals and military decide the best length of it. Leave U.S. politics out.
It’s time to let them lead, and the only way to do it is to stop leading them. The harder and faster we push them to take over their country, the faster they will do it.
As tickled pink as I’d be to see impeachment trials for Bush, I have to agree with Pelosi that it’s more important to move forward, not backward. This doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be investigations into many things that have occurred over the past 6 years. Without knowing exactly what happened, we don’t learn how to do things better. (Remember, we tend to learn better from our mistakes than from our successes.)
There’s no reason why we can’t make the adjustments and improvements that need made to the mess we have now AND hold investigations. An impeachment would be costly, both in $$ and time.
Congratulations to Nathan!
Smile big, Nathan.
Oops, Marines don’t smile. *grin*
To all Marines, past and present: Happy Birthday!
Semper fi.
Happy USMC Birthday to all of my Marine friends.Semper Fi,Do or Die.
God bless The Marines(And God bless Chesty Puller!)
Semper FiHappy Birthday to the few and the proud.
This is why Heckler and his ilk are so dangerous.
“How, we wonder in my time,” he said softly, “can you ignore the better part of a billion people who say aloud that they are willing to kill your children . . . or condone and celebrate the killing of them? And ignore them as they act on what they say? We do not understand you.”
Not only is the prose style turgid and a little silly, but the content is idiotic.
I worked in a Muslim country for three years. I never once felt unsafe because of my nationality working among these people that “want to kill us.”
It’s like saying that all Christians want to blow up federal buildings because Tim McVey did.
Listen, only a few people wanted to kill us on 9-11. And they had a very specific reason–get American troops out of the “qiblah,” the holy land, Arabia home of Mecca and Medina.
Unfortunately, our response was so ill-advised and over the top, that now we’re in permanent warfare with a lot folks in the middle East.
Now that communism is dead, you really need a new hobgoblin don’t you.
If you want to read something politically relevant, read “1984″ and how the sheeple are manipulated by constant war . . .
It’s not really funky and cold in Medina, is it?
Actually capn, the response (invading Iraq) was the one thing that was certain to provkoe them. If we would have put all of our effort into going after the people who attacked us, then we would still have the world’s support and be in the right. What we did is like FDR attacking Mayalasia after Pearl Harbor.
I think we need Gomer Pyle to sing a couple of tunes in honor of the Marines anniversary.As long as he doesn’t mention being gay.
Shazammm! I didn’t know that.
There is considerable regional opposition to the hanging of Saddam.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061110/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saddam_death_sentence_12
I say we get out of Iraq before Saddam is hanged. Any hint that the execution was done at our behest would not be in our short or long term interest.
Sol,”Ever since Dr. Spock, kids have gone to hell in a hand basket.”
Actually, they’ve been going to hell in a handbasket at least since the 2nd century, when the phenomenon was observed by the Roman writer Juvenal.So, if each generation since then has been noticeably worse than the preceding one (as each older generation since then has noticed), then either those Romans had to be gods for us to still be walking around on two legs, or yes, kids are rotten, but manage to improve enough (and forget enough) to bitch about the next generation.Me, I’m feeling pretty good about the next generation. Last night I took delivery of a new supercomputer my son built for me. Oh it’s gonna be nice when I get it set up! Yes, I remember all the horrible things he did to me as a child, but he’s improved since then, as we all have. I, for one, still have faith in our children, and their children. It’s the older generation I worry about!
Don’t be fooled by the ‘non-violent’ Muslims. Muslims for one don’t believe in sin. They believe in shame and dishonor. Think of them as Klingons in that respect.
If for example some Muslim extremist blew up some people, they must be praised by the Clerics during sermonds because they have fulfilled their commitment to the Koran. Sura 3:157 in the Koran rewards Muslims who fight for Allah.
Sura 5 in the Koran makes the following command: “Take not Jews and Christians for friends. Surah 5:33 states “For those who do not submit to Allah] their punishment is . . . execution or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet, from the opposite sides, or exile from the land.”
This commitment of faith by deeds alone isn’t an option for Muslims, this is a command from Allah.
You may have heard of ‘honor’ killings. This is because there is no acknowledgement of sin in the Muslim faith. To shame or dishonor is a deed that can be punished and punished harshly if you are a Muslim.
There are some countries like Turkey that practice less radical forms of Islam. In standing with their Arab Muslims neihbors however, they don’t think much of the Turks and would soon kill them as infidels.
We as Americans are infidels, Protestant, Catholic, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims and etc. We do not adhere to the Muslim laws according to middle eastern Muslims nor the Koran doctrines. Americans regardless of denomination are infidels.
If killing every last Muslim is necessary for us to be safe. I think it is going to take some time to accomplish that.
A cartoon concerning the Democratic victory this past Tuesday:
http://cartoonbox.slate.com/hottopic/?image=5&topicid=28
Tidbit from CNN.com:
Election outcome still uncertain in eight House racesWASHINGTON (AP) — Eight House races remain without winners after Tuesday’s election, with Republican incumbents in tight contests to keep their seats and state officials not rushing to end the dispute.
Rep. Deborah Pryce, a member of the House Republican leadership, is ahead in her central Ohio race by 3,536 votes. In the Columbus, Ohio-area, elections officials are delaying the count of more than 9,000 provisional ballots by one day so it doesn’t disrupt the much-vaulted Ohio State-Michigan football game on Nov. 18.
Ohio Republican Rep. Jean Schmidt, who called Democratic Rep. John Murtha a coward, is ahead of her challenger by 2,862 votes.
Rep. Barbara Cubin, who threatened to slap her wheelchair-bound Libertarian opponent after a debate, is ahead by fewer than a thousand votes in her Wyoming contest.
Of the eight uncalled races, only one — Joe Courtney’s challenge to Republican Rep. Rob Simmons in Connecticut — gives a Democratic challenger the lead. In that race, Courtney is ahead by a scant 166 votes. Almost a quarter of a million votes were cast.
Have to admit I didn’t know Michigan-Ohio State extended into the world of politics.
Good advice to the Dems in the new Congress from Tom Daschle:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0612.daschle.html
As a citizen of the republic, I hope it is heeded.
Hey JM,
The problem with the religion of peace is there are no voices that go against the extremists. You’re either an extremist or you’re neutral.
In this country we have extremists on both sides (nopt strap a bomb on your baby and send him to scholl extremists) but we have a society that constantly tries to improve and moderate the actions of the extremists.
A good book that follows along the points you made is “Americas Victories: Why the U.S. Wins Wars and Will Win the War on Terror”, By Larry Schweikart.
I don’t know where your’re at JM, but I’ll loan you my copy if your’re close.
Hank
“USS Boxer Strike Group, entered the Persian Gulf Thursday, Nov. 9, thelargest US landing force to reach this waterin a decade
November 10, 2006, 3:21 PM (GMT+02:00)
The Boxer Expeditionary Strike Group (BOXESG) now in the US Fifth Fleetarea headquartered in Bahrain, consists of Boxer (picture), AmphibiousSquadron 5, the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit (Seals), the Coast Guardcutter Midgett and Canadian frigate HMCS Ottawa, as well as the USSDubuque, USS Comstock, the largest landing craft in the US Navy, USSBunker Hill and the guided missile destroyers USS Benfold and USSHoward. The Boxer Group has just come from joint maneuvers with theIndian navy in the Arabian Sea opposite the coast of Goa, includinglarge-scale landing practices. The group’s commander, Capt. David Angoodsaid that if “anything important happens in the real-world environment,the task force will deal with it in the most efficient manner.”DEBKAfile’s military sources report that the arrival of Boxer in thePersian Gulf coincided with the USS Iwo Jima Expeditionary StrikeGroup’s passage through the Suez Canal on its way from the Gulf to theMediterranean. It is the first time that a US naval strike force isaccompanied by a coast guard unit. Its vessels are equipped and theircrews trained for rapid rescue and aid missions to damaged ships andwounded crewmen. Their presence in the task force indicates that theBoxer strike group is prepared for Iranian attack by sea, air,submarine, sea-to-sea missiles or depth mines.”
The above was emailed me by a friend. This was to evidence that there was more going on off Iran than what I had previously heard and discussed with him, namely there were two carrier groups being stationed in that miserable body of water. Anyone here with a clue backed up preferably with factual data of WTF is going on? This is, IMHO, a bit more than merely “showing the flag”.
Provocative and thoughtful look at why the war in Afghanistan may be lost:
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/the-perfect-evil-2.htm
I encourage all to read and think about what Yon is saying.
VT – it’s too bad Bush didn’t consider Afghanistan important and went after Saddam instead.
Here’s the thing: when you get older you just want security, and you forget your youthful indiscretions. Like Pat Robertson knocked up his girlfriend. Premarital sex was great for him, but he rails against it for TODAY’s young people. “Do as I say, not as I have done.”
Bush said he was anti-gay/lesbian marriage. But has he used his political capital to pass a constitutional amendment? Kind of hard to do when the real seat-of-power is a VP who has a lot of lesbianism in his own family. Kind of hard to do when you didn’t send your own daughters to anti-gay Bob Jones University, where you gave a speech to rally the “faithful”, , but instead you sent your own flesh and blood to massively pro-gay-rights Yale and U Texas-Austin. “I’m just kidding you sheep, I’m not a hypocrit, I just think you are totally stupid, maniputable morons.”
Divorce is allowed for in the Bible and gives fairly clear guidance for seeking a divorce. That’s a non-issue as far as allowance is concerned.
The Pharisees who were avaricious men heard all this and began to deride him. He said to them: “You justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God reads your hearts. What man thinks important, God holds in contempt. “The law and the prophets were in force until John. From his time on, the good news of God’s kingdom has been proclaimed, and people of every sort are forcing their way in. It is easier for the heavens and the earth to pass away than for a single stroke of a letter of the law to pass away. EVERYONE WHO DIVORCES HIS WIFE AND MARRIES ANOTHER COMMITS ADULTERY. THE MAN WHO MARRIES A WOMAN DIVORCED FROM HER HUSBAND LIKEWISE COMMITS ADULTERY.”
Luke 16:14-18
I don’t understand why you Henry VIII Protestants don’t seem to get the message that Jesus himself preached against divorce. Come on, where is the Protestant scholar to debate the Word of God? Surely you “saved” Protestant/Evangelical/Baptists/ Whatever the Hell You Call Yourselves These Days can give this “unsaved” “scripturally ignorant” Catholic an answer??
Looks like the Reserves won’t be hog tied by just 24 mo. duty in Iraq very much longer! http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061111/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/national_guard_iraq_2
Wahoo, now we’re going to have a fight between religious ideologies. It’s about time ya’ll see what it’d be like living under each other’s dogma now too.
We could be like…like….like Ireland!
Lets throw in Jewish and Mormon law into the mix too.
THIS is why we have legal separation of church and state right here.
Peemom,Not so. You see, unlike Ireland, there aren’t any British Black and Tans who took over northern Ireland from the predominantly Catholic natives. See a history of the Troubles for a more in-depth study, and you will find that religion was only used as a pretext of an underlying problem, which is the OCCUPATION and ANNEXATION of the sovereign state of Ireland by the English.
You know, kinda like IRAQ.:)
“Luke 16:14-18
I don’t understand why you Henry VIII Protestants don’t seem to get the message that Jesus himself preached against divorce. Come on, where is the Protestant scholar to debate the Word of God? Surely you “saved” Protestant/Evangelical/Baptists/ Whatever the Hell You Call Yourselves These Days can give this “unsaved” “scripturally ignorant” Catholic an answer??”
Posted by: Will | November 10, 2006 at 06:27 PM
Jesus was talking to the Pharisees during the time the words were spoken. This comes from the Old Testament (Hebrew Torah Portion) and Jesus was merely repeating to them what they already knew.
He reminded them about obeying and upholding the current law (what you wrote from Luke.) There is more guidance later on in the New Testament gives more guidance on marriage.
However, the New Testament was not yet written, so Jesus remarked to them about upholding current law. Jesus was merely being pragmatic.
Jesus could have told them about the New Covenant, but it would have probably been viewed as too ‘preachy’ and there were too many new concepts for the Pharisees would have to have coped with.
In shorter words, Jesus repeated the law that the Pharisees knew, so there wouldn’t be any confusion.
The key to understanding this is:”And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.” Luke 16:17
Jesus knew that lawlessness would create chaos if the old laws were ignored. So, he repeated the old law concerning marriage because he understand the need of men to have laws to live by.
Luke 16:17 establishes the permanence of the law because the law is part of Scripture. Once again, it is important to understand that Jesus annulled NOTHING of the old law, rather, he fulfilled them. Scripture, being the Word of God (also anthropomorphized as Jesus in various instances) was established as being unmalleable, undetractable, and eternal. To make an analogy:
Jesus = Word of God = Scripture
Knowing that the Old Testament God and Jesus are one and the same God yet distinguishable; when Jesus says: “Though heaven and earth pass away, MY WORDS shall never pass away” ()it is conceivable that the entirety of Scripture with the Law and the Prophets is never to be deduced or changed to suit theological principles, despite their popularity; a la divorce. This was the rationale of those early Christians since the First Palestinian Cannon. If you are not convinced, and you seek an example from Hermeneutics, meditate on the following:
“Your rebirth has come, not from a destructible but from an indestructible seed, through the living and enduring word of God. For, ‘All mankind is grass and the glory of men is like the flower of the field. The grass withers, the flower wilts, but the word of the Lord endures forever.’Now this “word” is the gospel which was preached to you.”
1Peter 1:23-25
Will,
Sounds like you wanted a response more than an answer. :)
Will,”You see, unlike Ireland, there aren’t any British Black and Tans who took over northern Ireland from the predominantly Catholic natives.”
No, here we have a flood of christians who used their religious arrogance as an excuse to kill the native pagans and steal their land!
JM,Nah, I wanted a theological debate. But if you’re tired or got something else to do, I understand.
Jed,Blaming all of Christendom for the actions of Puritans isn’t gonna hold any water with me, bub.
P.S.Where’s the beef?
Quote of the Day:
The Christians are always singing about the blood. Let us give them enough of it! Let us cut their throats and drag them over the altar! And let them drown in their own blood! I dream of the day when the last priest is strangled on the guts of the last preacher.—Gus Hall (Jewish Chairman, Communist Party U.S.A.)
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Viva la Virgen! Viva! Viva!
:)
Will,
I’m tired, but it’s not the reason to further the discussion.
I was raised never to argue theological differences between the faiths that follow Christ.
There are a lot of reasons for this, but in the end it only serves the purpose of the mind and not of the heart and soul.
I am doubtful I would increase the acuity of your mind, but am fearful I would make an unintentional strike at your heart and soul.
That, I could not do either intentionally or unintentionally.
With that said, good nite. :)
Viva Las Vegas!!Viva Viagra!!
JM,If I have offended you, I am sorry. I do get a bit heated when it comes to things that are dear to me. My faith is no exception. Good night.:)
For those who don’t know, Stephen Colbert makes his living lampooning bushbot conservatives. His show on Comedy Central is called the Colbert Report.
As best I remember, here is his take on the GOP losses in the last election.
Sigh…..
I thought Karl Rove was a genius!
What am I gonna do now?
I’ll send flowers to Don Rumsfeld!
What the hell happened?
Who the hell gave Mark Foley a Blackberry?
I need a freaking drink!
Fight it……
F%&k IT!
(Takes drink)
Ah sweet brown medicine! Take the pain away!
Do I have to say it?
(Wretches and heaves like he is going to throw up)
Speake of the House Nancy Pelosi.
(wretches again)
Oh well let Iraq blow up in the Democrats faces for awhile.
They can’t fix it!
heh They can’t fix anything.
(Recovering)
And when we’re still in Baghdad in 2008?
Hello President Jeb!
Will,”Jed,Blaming all of Christendom for the actions of Puritans isn’t gonna hold any water with me, bub.”
The Puritans? Hell, they were the smallest northeasern part of the problem. The Catholics took the south (clear to Tierra del Fuego) and the far west (California). The Anglicans in Canada and the Russian Orthodox in Alaska and the Aleutians took the far north. In between, almost every protestant sect got their licks in killing off Native Americans in order to christianize the continent (and make a buck in the process). While that may not be the whole of christendom, it’s a pretty representative slice, and doesn’t begin to address what christendom did to the rest of the world.The slaughter began as soon as christianity gained political power with Constantine (who immediately slew 200,000 Pagan Gauls “for the glory of Christ”) and has continued pretty much non-stop to this day! When you couldn’t find Pagans, or Muslims or Hindus, you made do with other christian sects. Remember “Kill a Commie for Christ?” Lebanon?Bosnia? Kosovo? You have a very bloody history!
I have a bloody history? Did I go around killing Native Americans 300 years ago? No. Try again.
Will,Gee, you only read the first and last lines- no wonder you don’t get it!