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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Nov. 8, 2006 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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117 Comments
GOOD MORNING HANK PRICE
Gentle people,I fear for your sanity. May of you already are on shaky ground as far as your ability to conduct a rational and civil political discussion. I fear that after the election, when the good people of this country allow the republicans to retain a majority in the house and senate, you will completely lose it.I just hope that I will be able to temper my elation and remain gracious in light of the republican victory.Don’t worry children, the adults will take care of things!HankPosted by: Hank Price | October 29, 2006 at 10:19 AM
Will have to wait till morning to see the election results in the light of day. But it now looks like Sedgwick County voters followed two ideas:** Vote out politicians who promoted the downtown arena, and
** Vote out incumbent politicians.
In the case of David Unruh’s Sedgwick County commissioner race, I believe a little stronger opposition candidate could have defeated Unruh for this $100,000 (+/-) per year, part-time job.
Now, in a perfect world, remaining county commissioners who weren’t up for re-election this time, TOM WINTERS AND TIM NORTON WILL STEP UP AND RESIGN IN DISGRACE for ignoring the thinking of 150,000 voters who turned against the arena after the faulty arena election.
I found Hank a graceful man and will eat his crow with reverence and the dignity that is deserved.I do not see it as a defeat for the party, but a win for the country. Now my fellow Republicans need to set back and realize that the party had gone a stray and this was a needed change for the good of the United States. As both the party and the country had been hijacked taken of course and both were in danger of sinking.
Now, Democrats take a lesson from the mistakes of the Republican party and keep a watchful eye on who is allowed to take control. The greatest danger to America is the extremists, for their desires are not those of this nation. They are willing to sell this country and your party for their misguided goals.
At the end of the day, it matters not who is a Republican or a Democrat but that tomorrow we are all Americans!
The county commissioners should have been a little wiser about the voting results of the downtown arenaI recall that it was a little more then haft for it and a little less against it, but when it is that close in voting it is a tell-tell sign that all is not well.Maybe that is one of the reasons that the framers of our nation set the laws of two thirds votes in many of our legislation.This is something that the new commissioners should remember and apply.
AMERICA HELD HOSTAGE:
DAY 2120
Presidency held hostage:804 Days left.
Congress held hostage:59 Days left.
HAVE A NICE DAY.
Our end of the state booted Ryun,what happened in tanker todd territory?
Tracy
Where do you hail from? And what happened to Ryun, did he suck or was it Bushhate?
I dont suppose it ever entered heckie’s mind that Nancy Boyda might just be a hell of a good candidate. And an even better Representative for Kansas.
Naw. Must be bushhate. Or jimmy boy sucks
hehehehehehehehehhehehehheheheheh
Dont give her any credit heckie. It wouldnt earn you any points with your fellow sore losers.
I just heard kenny boy mehlman say it is important that all the votes be counted and that we must make sure the voting process has integrity.
Yeah. Right. What a difference two years makes.
Or when the shoe is on the other foot.
Hank Price, I assume you have seen this:
“Democrats recaptured the House last night, defeating Republican incumbents in every region of the country, and were close to gaining control of the Senate in midterm elections dominated by war, scandal and President Bush’s leadership.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/08/AR2006110800489.html
I note above someone reposted evidence of your earlier desperation.
I am reminding you that I have released you from the $50 bet that you have lost.
Have a good day. I know I am going to.
Will Republicans try the 2000 strategy to win? You Bet!
Walt Chappell …… 2990 / 47%Brenda Landwehr …… 3364 / 52%WRITE-IN …… 6 / 0%
I am telling ya, “F-Bomb” Landwehr can be taken out. Let’s do it next time!I never heard of Walt Chappell,
Damn. I was so hoping brenda could work on tabor full time as a NON government employee.
Same with Garth McGinn Steven. A couple of better candidates and better campaigns down there an ya’ll could have had a clean sweep.
I’m already broom shopping for the next election….
I apologize on behalf of those in the 4th district of Kansas for AGAIN sending the moron Tiahrt to congress. See? THIS is why Wichita and territory is the hind end of the Earth.
Screw Tiahrt. This is a day for celebration!
Let Freedom ring!
Let the white dove sing!
Let the whole right know that today is a day of reckoning!
Now the weak are strong!
Now the right is wrong!
Roll thw stone away
Time for bush to pay
Its independence day!
Heckler, I’m from Southeast Kansas.It was a combination of both.Ryun is completely out of touch with his constituents, been in Washington too long.Of course he sucked when we got him.His only qualifications were being a world class athlete at the time.I’m sure having GW fly in to support him did not help.
Oh, and good morning KFG.Can’t forget that.Great day to be a gloating lib.If I remember, I’ll send ya’ a couple of pics from NYC after lunch.You can see what a yummy piece of man meat you’re missing out on.Haha hehe.
A well earned kick in the Gut.-exerpt from Boortz.
One thing is certain. The Republicans worked very hard for this defeat. They’ve earned every lost seat. The Republican majority that was sent packing yesterday bore little resemblance to the Republican majority that rode to power 12 years ago. In 1994 we were promised less government. Over the next 12 years the Republicans more than doubled the size of the government. We were promised control over runaway spending. In the last six years discretionary spending has doubled. We were promised fiscal responsibility. We got a bridge to nowhere in Alaska. We were promised the elimination of the Department of Education. After all, educational achievement had been on a steady decline since education was federalized under this Department. In no time at all the Republicans doubled funding for the Department of Education. In the meanwhile America continues to slip on the international scorecard of educational achievement.
http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html
Heckler, I’m sure all of the above led to Ryun’s demise.
Kline was very civil in his speech.. But I’m not impressed with his daughter that burst into tears and said “By the will of god” this and that.
It was not by any will of god that Phill Kline was elected. The voters of Kansas decide who is elected, not god.
Oh and what the heck was she wearing last night? That was completely bonkers that outfit top.
When Kline showed up on Bill O’Reilly’s show and talked about the very medicals records that his office had just received; that is what, I think, most common sense people saw as absolutely a violation of his office.
Kline’s arrogance brought him down. And for his daughter, how do you expect this girl to act? She has been raised by those two parents and she thinks their behavior is normal.
Like santorum’s kids?
I missed Klines concession.Darn it.
I agree with writerdog that Hank will accept defeat with grace. He, like many of us, can get hot at times but he is still a gentleman.
Now for a bit of “Monday-morning q-backing”:
Ryun lost because he brought in Bush. Instead of keeping it a race to retain an incumbent KS Congressman he made it a referendum on Bush. I think it was a lot easier for a lot of Kansans to vote against Bush than against Ryun.
Kline lost for a number of reasons: the ‘church’ memo coupled with the ‘offerings’ for his wife’s for-profit company began the unravelling. Stephen and Stovall leaving undercut him more. He then went negative which seemed to say he didn’t have his own record to stand on. When questions were raised about Consumer Affairs he went defensive accusing his fellow Republicans of running a shake-down operation. Instead, he should have shown why a different approach would be better for Kansans. An incumbent needs to be positive; he should have enough advantages to run on them. Then, at the end, Kline made it a one-issue race – TillerHating. While that really galvanizes the base it does nothing to broaden it.
Nationally, I think this was a broad rejection of Bush. He is now definitely a LAME DUCK. This will especially be true if the Dems get the Senate. It is going to be a very interesting two years.
Congrats to the Dems!
Now roll up those sleeves like you promised and do something constructive.
And hey, let’s not be bashing on Kline’s little girl, that’s not very adult.
Yeah, not very adult, like the bashing of Chelsea Clinton or Amy Carter?
Karma is SUCH a bitch….
Wich reminds me of the time Abbey Hoffman got into a white house party (Carter’s?) and was escorted out by the secret service for attempting to spike the punch with LSD.Oh, the good ol’ days.
Lovin’ the results. Now we Dems have a chance to get fat, arrogant and entrenched for 10 to 12 years until the GOP throws us out. And the cycle continus. Gotta admit, it is a lot more fun on the winning side. Haven’t stopped grinning all morning.
“When questions were raised about Consumer Affairs he went defensive accusing his fellow Republicans of running a shake-down operation. Instead, he should have shown why a different approach would be better for Kansans.”
Kline’s contention that the Consumer Affairs was a “shake down” office came from his bid for extreme far-right ideology; it was NOT implemented with the interest of Kansas citizens in mind. It was a pure right wing “how can I protect corporations from responsibility” endeavor.
If you think the voting public consists only of hotlick and outlander type voters, such a position would work.
Unfortunately for Kline, many of us could see that Kline was not running against Tiller & abortion despite how much he wanted to.
Among the first priorities for this Congress, unyoke scientific research from the shackles of extreme ideology, championed under you-know-who.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20061107/sc_livescience/cdcblockspublicationofabortionresearch
I hope Pelosi sticks to her pledge to work with Bush. The Dems are far from having a super-majority. They will need to work with the other side to get stuff done.
Though the repubs deserve to be punished and cast into the outter darkness for their extreme boorish behavior in the recnt past, I am hoping bipartisanship will prevail.
Bush, the promotor for more abortions!
http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/060801_bad_decisions.html
“By doing God’s work, Hager, of course, has essentially enabled countless avoidable abortions. Women seeking emergency contraception clearly don’t want to get pregnant. The longer they wait for the morning-after pill, the greater the chance of fertilization and pregnancy.”
Really, Steve?
I hope she opposes everything Bush wants.
Let the subpeonas begin . . .
BTW, JR, I DID see Kline’s concession speech. He cried like a little girl. I was embarrassed for him. And Kansas.
It’s a great day for America . . . but what a mountain of problems the conservatives have put in our way.
Virginia is gonna steal the Senate.
Last night was my poker night, lost there too!
I’ll make arrangements to pay off all my bets tomorrow, I’m off on Thursdays.
Should be a fun two years, Newt in 08!
Hank
Hank–
You don’t owe me anything. Send some cookies to your son instead if you want.
You know, Newt would be a damn-sight better than what we’ve got. Any change would be an improvement.
Ben H–
Good analysis. Bush isn’t just a “lame duck.” Now he’s a DEAD duck.
As I said earlier, you don’t owe me anything either, Hank. Use the money for Nathan’s homecoming party.
The people have spoken.
Nah Capn,I am sticking by my hope that Peolsi will work with Bush like she said she would.
But, I also think gridlock is a great improvement over the rubber stamp we had before.
What do we have, about 8 million illegal immigrants dancing in the streets today? Amnesty ahead for all!!
Political Toon Satire of course.
http://mccluer.name/insurgents.jpg
Yeah, not very adult, like the bashing of Chelsea Clinton or Amy Carter?Karma is SUCH a bitch….Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | November 08, 2006 at 08:49 AM
Okay ksfarmgirl.
I never made any insults against these children.
But like you said, karma has a way of going around.
I don’t know Heckler – I saw on another thread that Bush doesn’t want to work with the Dem Congress. After all, the amnesty is Bush’s initiative!
Congratulations Democrats. I’m mostly not surprised by the outcome. While this isn’t what I wanted, I hope this truly gets the Republican’s attention and perhaps next time we can elect some much better candidates.
Take good care of the House (and maybe the Senate).
hmmm
The amnesty is Bush’s idea.The Senate approved it. The only thing standing in it’s way was the Republican held House. That’s gone now.
RD,The people are still speaking. Virgina and Montana are not settled yet.
Heckler, the best indication that you were right about the election being a repudiation of Bush was in Rhode Island. Lincoln Chafee (R) had a 62% approval rating in his state. But, he was cast out in a wave of voter dissatisfaction with Bush. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t Chafee even vote against allowing the war on Iraq?
Bush has hurt his party, but hopeully not irrepairably. Remember when Goldwater and bunch of his allies when to the White to tell Nixon that the party was over (Nixon resigned within the week). I will never forget Goldwater’s comment about that meeting, i.e. “that son of a bitch even lied to his family.”
We can only hope that a similar Repub contingent will soon be visiting Bush.
Goldwater was one of the great republicans, even though I am a screaming liberal and didn’t agree with a lot of things he said.
But he was honest and fair, two traits that are rare in Washington.
Doesn’t the county commission decide which provisional ballots count?
Shouldn’t Sciortino, recuse himself on these decisions? (Sciortino is 36 votes behind the Dem challenger Weishimer).
You know it is a curious year when Republicans are wanting to count MORE votes.
Dennis,You are right about Goldwater.
Steven, Dennis,Yeah, Goldwater should have been the role model for the republican party; instead they chose Nixon!I actually voted for Barry- he at least seemed more honest than Johnson!
LBJ defintely had honesty issues.
LBJ did not have honesty issues. He was 100% perfectly DISHONEST!
I think Virginia is safe, with a 7000 vote lead. In the 2004 state election the AG won by 300-something votes. On recount, he got an additional 23 votes. I don’t think anybody is going to try to manufacture 7000 votes, because it would require “discovering” some 20,000 “lost” ballots in boxes that suddenly appeared. Not plausible.
In Montana, a much smaller state, the 1800 vote differential looks insurmountable.
On Wichita, as I said earlier in another thread, the local media made a serious strategic error protecting Tiahrt. Had they forced Tiahrt to debate, McGinn had an excellent shot at winning, even with a shoestring budget. However, had he gained significant traction, which he would have, the DNC very well might have given him a half-mil for TV ads. They came in late for Nancy Boyda when they saw she had a decent shot against Ryun.
There are some politicos who have the talent to take advantage of their party’s running things to rise high, and who can weather the storms as a minority-party member. This includes several Republican House members–believe me, I am not making a partisan diatribe. Tiahrt doesn’t have this talent. He was picked to be an obedient vote-providing water-carrier for outside interests.In the new regime, he’s going to become a non-entity, because he doesn’t have any substantive ideas, and his paid-for seat that will vote with the GOP leadership is going to be worthless to the GOP.
Some wackos like Tom Delay, who was interviewed on CNN this morning, delude themselves that the GOP will retake the Congress in 2008. Ain’t gonna happen, because the Democratic leadership, despite having liberal personal proclivities, understands that a move toward moderation is in order, which is exactly why Howard Dean and Rahm Emmanuel put up retired military officers and openly Christian candidates to take on Republican incumbents.Secondly, we will see Dems use Delay’s gerrymandering playbook in several states to protect this election’s hard-fought D wins. Thirdly, the Dem takeover of the House isn’t a squeaker, it’s a tidal wave. The tide isn’t going to turn in a mere 2 years. It will take at least 12 years, and if the Dems play their cards right, they’re going to be in the majority for a lot longer than that.
Missouri passed a $6.85 minimum wage. Kansas’s GOP leadership thinks that cheap labor works. I think that’s misguided, because the entry-level wage rate, and the ideology behind it, determines higher-tier wages and salaries. Kansas can’t recruit talent with this mindset. In ancient times, LAND was the most valuable resource. That’s obsolete in the 21st century economy. PEOPLE are most valuable, or can be, if they are valued and invested in wisely. Societies that don’t get this modern paradigm LOSE to societies that realize this.
Most of you know I’m pretty liberal. But I appreciate amy Republican ideas, and I even support some of them. I’d vote for one particular GOP candidate for president, if I could. That’s Arnold Schwartzenegger. He’s pro business. But he’s proving himself to be a REAL uniter, not a divider. He got a substantial number of Democrats’ votes, and most Independents’. Too bad he can’t run, being non-native.
For Dems, I could support Gore, because he’s a smart guy who would do a good job, but I don’t know if he can win. Hillary doesn’t work for me at all. I have a strong hunch that Bill Richardson may get the Democratic nomination in ‘08, and if he does, he can win. He’s a solid pragmatist, not an ideologue.
Top NewsWednesday, Nov. 8, 2006Democrats Win in Montana, Tying SenateWASHINGTON (AP) – Democrats erased the Republican Senatemajority Wednesday with a cliffhanger victory in Montana, hoursafter taking control of the House. The battle for Senate controlcame down to Virginia, where Democrats held a small lead.Democrat John Tester won the Montana Senate race, givingDemocrats 50 seats. Virginia is still in question.
http://my.netscape.com/corewidgets/news/story.psp?cat=51180&id=2006110812330001752378
Breaking news:
Rumsfeld is resigning. (CNN)
YES!!!!!!!!
Another RAT deserting that sinking ship. Now he should be shipped to the Hague!
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/11/08/gop-says-rumsfeld-stepping-down/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.breitbart.com%2Fnews%2F2006%2F11%2F08%2FD8L91ID02.html
GOP Says Rumsfeld Stepping DownNov 08 12:51 PM US/Eastern
Republican officials say Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is stepping down. Word comes a day after the Democratic gains in the election, in which Rumsfeld was a focus of much of the criticism of the Iraq war.
First one tossed overboard. There’ll be more. Rove is next.
Why now Rummy? If you feel you need to you should have done it 2 weeks ago or 3 months from now.
Doing it now you just give the Dems a little empty pleasure.
:)
Why now? He hopes to avoid indictment.
By the way, I noticed that Lieberman was calling for Rummy to go.
It has been reported that Bush has been having increasing disagreements with Cheney. Cheney thinks of himself at the puppetmeister. He shapes the information that Bush receives, he’s the master of Washington politics, which Bush is not. He goes to the Congress and Pentagon to negotiate and strong-arm.
Bush “thinks” with his “gut”. (He has said, “I go with my gut instincts.”) Insiders have reported that he DOESN’T LIKE TO READ. That’s probably why he connected with a lot of Americans, who are also this way. But that’s disastrous for a nation that wants to be #1 in the 21st century world. If his supporters want America to be #155 in the modern world, this is fine, we can live with this, but then we can’t invade countries a half-world away.
Anyway, if Bush’s “gut” works, he will marginalize Cheney. Or maybe Cheney can have a “heart attack” and tell America he must resign for “health reasons”. Rummy, who was once Cheney’s mentor, isn’t the problem. Dick Cheney is the problem. The oilogarchs who cleverly put Cheney into the seat of power, with GWB being the puppet figurehead, are the problem.
With two-house control, let’s hope one thing: the Cheney-oilogarch secret meetings get a public review. If the Whitehouse fights this, let Congressional oversight committees invite Cheney down, and let him indict himself as a fraud perpetrator who deliberately acted against America’s interests. Then let CHENEY be impeached.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061108/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/rumsfeld_resigns
Looks like Rummy’s on the way out officially.
Wow. Robert Gates, ex-CIA head, will be the nominee. Wikipedia says he’s a Wichita native.
It was Bush saying that Rummy was “doing a heck of a job” that cursed him.
He’s the scourge of God–first he has destroy all the evil ones around before he himself is destroyed.
I’m looking for Wes Clark as the Democratic candidate in ‘08 adn a much better showing for John Doll in the 1st district. Otherwise fantastic night! Let the supeona’s come forth!
Ah. So there’s an Iran / Contra tie-in with Robert Gates. Figures.
And, CF, to add to the ironies, Danny Ortega is back.
Vaughn Tolle,
Indeed, though of course, history never repeats: Daniel Ortega now may be characterized, quite fairly, as a center-right candidate. At least, to hear his former Sandanista compadres tell it.
Yes VT – Nicaragua rejected the campaigning by the terrorist supporter North for Ortega’s opponent. Now, if the US will allow him to govern this time instead of supporting terrorism there he might have a chance.
I’m listening to Bush on the radio – he is still in denial about civil war in Iraq.
Ah, yes, Lt Col Oliver North (USMC, retired), who should still be serving time at the Military Disciplinary Barracks at Ft. Leavenworth, Kansas, IMHO.
Vaughn Tolle, indeed. One man’s hero and all that.
Quite a zinger from Bush toward Rove: “I obviously campaigned harder than he did.” Ouch. Bush-barbs aimed at Bush’s brain. Strange performance at the press conference.
This is kind of cool…
The front page of the wichita eagle is posted at the top of the Huffington Post.
So if Gates can’t make it through the committee hearings because of his Iran – Contra past, who’s the likely pick for Secretary of Defense?
Joe Lieberman, anyone?
And if he accepts, then does the governor of Connecticut get to appoint–wait for it–a Republican to Senate to replace him?
Interesting question CF. Who IS the governor? What Party?
With Rummy gone … who’s next?
Hello all,
I admit I am a bit surprised at how many seats the Republicans lost. With all the stuff going on I figured it would be a close, but the Democrats took a bunch of seats.
Oh well.
You can’t win them all and there is always 2008.
Perhaps we will be lucky enough to have the democrats go so crazy these next 2 years and things will flip right back.
I am honestly interested in seeing what the Democrats first items on the agenda will be.
I have some pretty good thoughts on what they will do, time will tell.
The whole Rumsfield thing is kind of infuriating. Why in the hell did Bush and Rumsfield fight so hard against all these calls for resignation and now he resigns?
Sigh…
I figured I would drop by and say something.
Nathan, may I suggest that the resignation of Sec. Rumsfeld is a 21st century variation on the losing commander (in Roman times) “falling on his sword”.
As I always say, stay safe.
Appoint Webb from Virginia as the new Secretary of Defense. :D
Here ya go Nathan, the dems have had a plan all along. The freepers just refused to acknowledge it.
A little reading from your favorite source. heheheh
It’s called “Pelosi’s 100 Hour Plan”….
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364×2633086
…and if ya dont like that plan, here is Dennis K’s todo list for congress….
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364×2638710
KFG,
I think you once said that you knew that us Republicans would not click on a link to the DU.
It is true.
I get enough reading from left wing wack jobs here.
I imagine many of the troops overseas are somewhat demoralized. Some are probably happy Rumsfeld is gone, don’t think they liked his policies.
However, I can tell you that soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines tend to be loyal not only by oath to their Commander in Chief, but have a similar ideology because of their role in the military (not necessarily their own ideology.)
Bush needs to step up and reassure them as well as the Democratic Leadership or there are going to be some glum military members out there with confusion entering their mind.
JMWebb as Secretary of Defense?That’s not a bad idea. Webb is a republican in anything except the name tag.
Viewing the election:The more interesting question is long term. A president’s party usually loses seats in off-year elections, especially in second terms. The raw seat change in this election, while important, is hardly a landslide in historical terms.
So – is this a referendum on Iraq, or a broader change in philosophical direction? My suspicion is that Repubs – who deserved to lose, certainly – should not despair too much. This election was about Iraq, not generally conservative governance. The overall direction of the nation is still largely conservative. Many of the new Dems (like Webb) are hardly fire-breathing liberals in the mold of Pelosi/Schumer; indeed, the Dems went to great effort to recruit candidates who were more conservative. Lamont, on the other hand, lost. It remains to be seen if the Dems can build on and sustain these gains.
Dem overreaching brought the end of their 60 year dominance. Reps had hoped to build a permanent Rep. majority, much as the Dems had. So far, that hasn’t materialized. I suspect we are in for a period where neither party is in any sort of dominant position.
One possible result might be the emergence of a governing center, partisan at election time, but coalition-building in governing. One could hope, but . . .A more likely outcome is that elections stay deeply bitter (but if you think campaigning is dirty now, go back a century or so!!), and government policy is driven by political gain. That has been the pattern of the last two administrations, and with 2008 looming, may well continue.
We’ll see, won’t we? Congrats and good luck to the winners; we’ll see you at the polls in ‘08.
Too Late JM.
It was bad enough that the Dems took the house.
But Rumsfield quiting? Now?
I will be waiting for some type of explanation.
Nathan,
In all sincerity, I feel bad on your behalf about Rumsfeld’s decision to resign when he did. I agree that he does owe you, and everyone who serves under him, an explanation.
I would, of course, go further and say that he owes the citizens of Iraq an explanation as well. I’m hoping that he gets to offer it in The Hague.
My guess is that there will be a bunch of countries he should not expect to visit, ever.
“I will be waiting for some type of explanation.”
We have been waiting ever since they launched their invasion.
Wow! Even dead Democrats win.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15622299/?GT1=8717
Nathan, for what it’s worth, here’s my take on the Rumsfeld situation. I believe that the White House became concerned with the direction of the election about a month ago; their polling told them they were in trouble, with one of the major reasons being the prosecution of the war in Iraq. When candidates in their own party started calling for a change, the situation reached a tipping point. From my hearing stuff today as I have been working, and reading a bit on various sites, the decision was made to have Rumsfeld go NLT last week; the President met with Mr. Graves over the weekend and offered him the job.
The statements to the public last week concerning Mr. Rumsfeld were, IMHO, a last-gasp attempt to minimize the political damage from the election. No more, no less. With a real probability that the Dems will gain a majority of the Senate (VA, w/recount certain), the decision was made last night for the news conference and announcement.
In other words: power politics; no more, no less.
Stay safe.
Nathan, maybe it’s time to pull your head out of the sand and realize that President Bush lied to you. AGAIN!
That should have been “Gates”, not “Graves”. Long day.
The military officers take a pledge to defened the constitution, not blind loyalty to whoever happens to be in office.
Steve, all members of the military take an oath to defend the constitution, not just officers. And, yes, the constitution; not the president as an individual, etc. Sometimes I think that is forgotten.
Nathan, if you refuse to read it then dont say the democrats dont have a plan.
Just because you deny it doesnt mean it doesnt exist.
kfg
They have a plan all right. Mostly typical Liberal stuff that they can’t run on in a nationalized election.
CF
A little something for you to consider relative to one of our discussions.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2444457,00.html
They wear cowboy boots, chew tobacco, love hunting, hate abortion, want less government spending — and some voted for Ronald Reagan. Now they are headed to Congress as Democrats.
Although the Democrats’ victory was above all an overwhelming repudiation of the conflict in Iraq, it was also built on the back of moderate, often conservative candidates recruited to compete in traditionally Republican territory.
Our conservatives are being very gracious in defeat.
Too bad that spirit was not evident back in 2000 when they “won” We might have prevented a lot of unpleasantness.
You have said our side does not have ideas. This is not true. Our ideas have just been kept down. You can do that when you have control of the house.
Now WE have the House and the Senate and you and bush will have to listen. Too bad for us bush did not have this working against him the last 6 years. That TOO might have prevented some negatives.
Nathan
We have our differences. I hope you will take me at my word when I say that I am sorry for this Rumsfeld thing.I can’t even begin to guess at the motive. Rove cutting losses maybe I don’t know. But to do it later rather than sooner and to do it right after an election just stinks of politics. YOU and our servicemen should not feel bad in any way for this. It is NOT a reflection on you in any way whatsoever. Don’t you or the troops get distracted by it. You have more important things to think about like staying safe.
Heckler–
I wear cowboy boots, smoke cigars, love hunting, hate abortion and want less government spending too.
That’s part of the bulls*t stereotyping that Rush Limbaugh does to appeal to needy pencil necked geeks who want to be “manly” like you.
Being sane doesn’t mean you’re a moderate. It just means your not a Bush RepubliCON.
To All
Some interesting fictional reading which includes some interesting history lessons.
It’s long, when you have time.
http://www.dansimmons.com/news/message/2006_04.htm
Capn
I was explaining to CF how the victory for Democrats was not what it appeared to him. That many of the wins were by moderate and conservative candidates. The point was that the Democrat victories were not the affirmation of his liberal principals that he thought they were.
And who said anything about Rush?The article’s from the U.K.
Thanks for mentioning Rush.
There is another guy who owes an awful lot of folks some answers.
He bailed on bush and Repulicans today. He didn’t lose with them. THEY lost and he is bigger than them! If nobody else gets some of what he said up here I will later.
JR
I’d say that Bush and the Republicans bailed on Rush long ago. If you listen to him as much as you say you do you’d know that Rush has had plenty to say about it in the past.
YYYYYEEEEEEEEHHHHHAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!I’ve been doin’ the happy dance all day!!!!!Time to party guys!!!!Can’t WAIT til 2008!!!!!!!!!!!!
GMC and Heckler desperately try to spin the reality away–
Those Democratic candidates that won weren’t really, you know, Democrats . . .
Okay, fine. Then the Democrats didn’t win. Oh, wait, they did.
“The raw seat change in this election, while important, is hardly a landslide in historical terms.”
Wrong. The average number of Senate seats the White House party loses in a midterm election is three. In 2002, thanks to a phony “war on terror,” the RepubliCONS actually GAINED a Senate seat.
Now that VA is confirmed for Webb-D, Dems gained SIX Senate seats, from 45 (which includes the two Indy’s) to 51.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061109/ap_on_el_se/democrats_senate
The Dems haven’t controlled both houses of Congress for 12 years.
Not a landslide? You’re right. More like an effing TSUNAMI.
“So – is this a referendum on Iraq, or a broader change in philosophical direction? My suspicion is that Repubs should not despair too much. This election was about Iraq, not generally conservative governance. The overall direction of the nation is still largely conservative.”
Totally wrong again, on so many levels. The direction of the country is from rural to urban. Who votes more conservative . . . cities or farm country?
And not only that, opinion polls show the American people supporting liberal positions in clear majorities. Soc Sec, nationalized health care, minimum wage, more corporate oversite, pay down the national debt even if that means raising taxes . . . practically everything you can think of, the majority wants is liberal.
Look at abortion in South Dakota.
Even gay marriage splits about 50-50 nationwide.
And, the Democrats get a lot more votes, just like Gore in 2000, than Republicans do. You add up the number of Dem voters vs. the number of Rep voters nationwide, and the Dems get way more votes overall than Rep time and time again.
The one exception was Bush in 2004. Which wasn’t the only weird thing about that election . . .
And lastly, how can you pull Iraq out of “conservative governance.” It is the EPITOME of conservative governance:
We’ve got the majority, we’ve got the army, so f*ck you.
It’s all about the power, both for policy domestic and foreign.
I’m a big frickin’ lib, according to my coworkers.
I’m also an NRA member, love my guns, love to shoot. Drive a car that could be more fuel efficient, but I love the power and tweaked it this way. Don’t favor abortion, but understand why it’s legal. I’m having another child early next year (er… my wife is… I’m just the father.) I think welfare and disability are abused. I cover my heart when the flag is presented, I turn and fold my hands plaintively when a hearse passes by in a funeral procession and say a silent prayer for the deceased. I say “Under God.” I know the 10 commandments, and I support our troops.
Democrats are the new Republicans.
Nancy Pelosi is not necessarily the most shining example of this, but in order for the pendulum to rest in the middle, it must first swing far to the other side. If I go to buy a car, my first offer is not what I intend to pay, but a lowball to receive a counteroffer. In order to achieve compromise, one must pull hard to their side and hope for an acceptable middle.
The only thing that keeps me from voting republican (well, things):
1. Fiscal conservatism is gone.2. Moral conservatism makes me nauseous. Don’t tell me how to live. God is the ONLY judge, and I’ll square it with him when we meet.3. States’ rights end when you propose to amend the constitution to preclude states’ rights (the failed gay marriage amendment bid)4. Free enterprise shouldn’t depend on the largesse of public officials.5. Public officials shouldn’t depend on the largesse of enterprise.6. One hand may wash the other, but it can just as easily dirty the other.
I don’t know that Democratic control of both houses is the ideal situation, but it’s a strong message to GWB that we’re not pleased with his cowboy attitude and pigheadedness. Pelosi is not the middle, but neither is George W. The trouble with being in the middle for most people is that they think it too closely resembles “sellout.”
Well said, Postal.Great minds think alike ;)
Capn -
Your history is seriously flawed if you think this is a “historic election.” Important? Sure. Sending a message? Absolutely. Earth-changing? I doubt it.
One would have hoped the spin machine of Capn/proudlib/etc/etc (how long before you wear this nic out?) would have waned after election day, but no, he’s still rolling. How you can spin the election of Webb as a “liberal” win is beyond me. In many races, Dems won by running … Republicans!
No, this election was Iraq, pure and simple. And deserved. But the long-term battle is far from over.S. Dakota? No surprise. I’m about as pro-life as one can get, and I’d have voted against it. For lots of reasons.
And BTW, gay marriage lost again. Six times.
And I never said that Iraq was “conservative governance.” On the contrary.
As I said – congrats and good luck. See ya in ‘08; the race starts . . . NOW!
BTW – JR, you must listen to Rush more than anyone I know. Why? I never listen to him. Do you really feel the need to take high blood pressure medicine that badly?
How many seats did Clinton lose in ‘98?
It’s not MY history that’s seriously flawed . . .
I don’t want to make this response into a Clinton vs. Bush bash fest debate, but sticking to the facts – It only took two years (1994) for Clinton to lose 54 seats in the House and 8 in the Senate.
Ross Perot encouraged people to give Republicans a chance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._Ross_Perot
In Florida in 1990, retired financial planner Jack Gargan funded a series of “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore” (a reference to a famous quote from the 1976 political and mass media satire movie, Network) newspaper advertisements denouncing the U.S. Congress for voting for legislative pay raises at a time when average wages nationwide were not increasing. Gargan later founded “Throw the Rascals Out”, which Ross Perot supported.
Oh I think this is a historic election alright. Now the turnover was quite ordinary for a midterm. What will be extraordinary is the aftermath this particular turnover will bring.
Impeachment? Who needs it? bush is more useful to our side blundering ahead. Suffer though the country will.
Don’t forget. ALL the comittees are in our hands now. That means intelligence. (Bad news for Roberts and who knows who else) That means ethics. (Abramoff and Foley have only begun to be explored)
The result of this turnover is going to be even MORE Republicans getting the boot or resigning in disgrace.I can hardly wait!
I left out a very important bit of how this election was historic.
Nancy Pelosi enters the history books as the very first female Speaker of the House. This DESPITE high power low brow conservative efforts to predict the sky would fall if a woman ascended to such a position. THAT is really historic! It brings us closer to the day when a female President is a commonly accepted idea.
I know we do not have that many female posters. I don’t know if we have any conservative female posters at all.
What do our posters and in particular our female posters feel about the breaking of this barrier?
Yee haw, let’s hear it for that wetback hiring, union busting, israel loving, “broad of the sheeple”, ancy pelosi! Welcome to Weimar Amerika, peoples! :)
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!!
I did not ask for assessment of ONE woman or her politics or peccadillos.
I asked how posters and in particular women posters felt about A WOMAN attaining this position in government.
Increasing number of Americans are complaining about their Health Insurance costs. What one needs to figure out is the Basics of obtaining a Health Insurance and compare Health Insurance costs across companies.
Regards,
Steven.
JR
Ian brings up a good point. Just how DO you feel about Pelosi’s two-faced ways on labor unions?
“What do our posters and in particular our female posters feel about the breaking of this barrier?”
I think it’s been a long time coming. In other words, IT’S ABOUT TIME women were recognized as people.