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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Nov. 30, 2006 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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144 Comments
Wow, its cold outside. Wichita public schools are closed today. So … get ready, a blast of winter weather and snow is headed into Wichita later today. Might be a good day to weatherproof this old Wichita bungalow circa 1925.
On days like this, I miss living in Florida…
I kind of welcome it believe or not. It sets the mood for the Christmas season. Oh! I mean Holiday season for those who are offended.
WTF?
There is not one flake of snow on the ground or in the air and the schools are closed???
It is called “planning”, JR. Forecasts calls for as much as 6 to 12 inches of snow today.
It’s called stupid. This is unprecedented.
While I understand that our schools are using foresight in closing, aren’t they gonna feel stupid IF there isn’t any major accumulation of snow?What happened to when I was in school and it had to be a blizzard that had gone one for 3 days to close school?wussy’s
I grew up in Texas. When it froze (very seldom) we had no service vehicles to salt and clear the roads. The whole city damn near shut down.
It’s called planning & risk management.
If the snow comes, we’re covered. If it doesn’t, we use up one of the built-in weather days for the year. Sheesh - will you people stop bitching for once?
Will Todd Tiahrt (R-KS) destroy The GOP?
http://scienceblogs.com/tfk/2006/11/will_todd_tiahrt_rks_destroy_t.php
It’s called stupid.
They don’t even make the kids make up snow days anymore.In MY entire time in school they closed the schools only once for the storm in 1980. There was an ice storm and 11 inches of snow.
It isn’t even snowing yet!
Golfnut,I’m not ‘bitching’. My personal story is that my (step)son is having a difficult enough time in school this year and less class time will likely further hinder his ability to pull up his grades. The school district in which we reside (not 259) does not have ‘built in snow days’ and that means going longer in the summer which in turn totally messes up summer visitation with his birth mother.
Meteorology is not an exact science and Meteorologists have been way off more than once. I remember stockpiling for the ‘worst snow storm of the year’ just to have a few flurries and I also remember shoveling 17 inches of ‘partly cloudy w/ slight chance of flurries’.
As a so-called safety expert, I applaud the decision by School Admininstrators.
Not only are there school buses to consider, but mom and dad picking up kids from school on snow days multiplies the risk factors exponentially.
First snowfalls are notorious for causing a large percentage of accidents during the winter months.
Good call in my opinion…
First snowfalls…
I call it the 24-hour Stupid Period and if I possibily can, I stay home because people (including me) don’t remember how to drive in ice and snow. Particularly ice in the Wichita area.
I, too, applaud the administrators for making the call early for the reasons cited by JM.
It looks like (from my office window) the lower layer of the atmosphere has now become sufficiently moist for the snow to make it to the ground. Wonder how long before I can rationally determine it to be in my best interests to go home?
Yeah well what about all the parents scrambling to find a place to put their kids for the day?
Which, JR, from my conversations with 259 officials is why they try to determine closing for the weather as early as possible; I know this does not help much, but at least it is taken into account.
RIght again Dennis.
Vaughn, I know they TRY to be early. But this is a first. Anyone getting up this morning would have had no idea until they turned on the radio.
Guess I better go get the dogs some food. Everyone and THEIR dog will be making a run on the store. Part of that “24 hour stupid”.
Take a look outside, guys. The snow IS sticking. And if you want to know why all this is happening and why the forecast of so much snow, take a look at these NWS radars.
Wichita radar:http://radar.weather.gov/radar.php?rid=ICT&product=N0R&overlay=11101111&loop=yes
OK City radar:http://radar.weather.gov/radar.php?rid=TLX&product=N0R&overlay=11101111&loop=yes
And for an overall view:http://radar.weather.gov/Conus/index_loop.php
I talked to a friend of mine in Waco, TX last night, and THEY were under a winter storm warning for today.
I am NOT looking forward to driving later today to pick up my daughter at work–at 32nd and Rock.
Stupid Period, definitely. Did anyone watch the news last night to see how many accidents there were with the little ice we got? I avoided 135 & 96 completely, which means it takes twice as long to get to where I need to go. It took me 25 minutes to clear off my windshield and windows before venturing out at 3 pm yesterday.
Can you tell that I HATE DRIVING IN SNOW!?
RD, those radars tell the tale, don’t they. Looks like the interpreters of dead animal entrails, otherwise known as meteorologists, may have hit it this time.
Be careful on your journey to 32nd and Rock later; that trip is likely to be very nasty.
Soooo, JR, is it still looking “stupid” to call off school? Or was it a smart move?
hehe
This is awful news, now we have to do a preemptive strike against Japan.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061130/ap_on_re_as/japan_nuclear_weapons
Japan has the capability of developing a nuclear bomb in the very way Iraq didn’t but that didn’t stop us from invading anyway on the faith based plan that they just might have aliens give them the technology. Well so too must we invade Japan lest we see the smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud.
We will certainly not invade before Xmas because Japan provides us with with Nintendo and Playstations that we must have for the holidays. Come December 26 we will start the invasion. Already we have soldiers stationed there so it should cost as much as the Iraq was supposed to, about three dollars and fifty cents.
I think it is a good idea to close school earlier than later. For some who work out of town from their children’s school, it’s far easier to get a sitter or make other arrangements BEFORE going to work rather than having to drive back home and pick them up in the ice and snow.
And I’m with the ones who say drivers are stupid. I won’t even take interstate when it gets bad out. People drive way too fast.
SUV drivers especially have a false sense of security.
Expanding on Mom’s thoughts, it seems to me that many drivers of a vehicle with 4-wheel drive capability don’t understand that the laws of Physics are not repealed by the 4-wheel drive; i.e., even though the vehicle can “go” better than others, it isn’t going to stop better.
4×4 drivers may have 4 driven wheels, but on ice they are worse than a car - more weight to try to stop. I agree, SUV drivers are the worst.
Don’t you love folks who say “I know how to drive on ice and snow”? If you put 1/2 of the vehicle’s tires on a frictionless substance (read ice) you are no longer in control of said vehicle. Period.
Mom, I agree. I absolutely refuse to give the interstates a thought when the roads are bad. Kellogg ranks right up there with them. Anything elevated is risky. 135 & 96 were okay when I was out this morning, but I’ll take the more major streets and hope they’re cleared. If not by snowplows (if needed), then by traffic.
Well, the National Weather Service revised forecast now calls for 8″ -12″ accumulation during the daytime hours. Looks like the school folks are justified in their caution.
My daughter just called and is leaving early, riding with a friend. Boy, do I owe this friend!
Stay safe out there, gang. Don’t go out unless you absolutely have to. If you do drive, go slow and give plenty of space between you and the car in front of you. I hear the streets are already treacherous.
No comment, JR? Seems like we have a roaring storm (as predicted). Yet…you criticized the advance decision about schools?
Any retraction on the ’stupid’ part now?
The amount of snowfall predictions is an area where modern meterologists do the worst.
http://products.weather.gov/PDD/pqps_pdd.pdf
Being skeptical of this type of prediction is justified.
That being said, this was a large system and thus it was easier to predict that we were going to have “a lot” of snow.
Although I agree with cancelling school before the storm (our school is still in session by the way), I have also seen it be used totally unnecessarily. It’s not wrong for JR to feel that way, I see his point.
JR has a point? Yeah! He’s an angry idiot! We all see that point!
Having a point, and being judgmental by calling something “stupid” are different things, wouldn’t you agree?
It’s a beautiful day in Kakeland! This makes me want to get my skis out and head to the mountains…in my giant SUV! =)
Joe Williams is calling ME an idiot?
Well if it takes one to know one I guess I better get checked for idiocy! Being as Joe is about as sharp as a sack of wet mice.
I called calling off school today stupid AND unprecedented.
It IS unprecedented. I’ve lived here 41 years I should know.
Hey they took a stab in the dark. This time they got it right. I MAINTAIN that they left a lot of parents in the lurch this AM. Could they not have made this call last night?
I was out for awhile. I was surprised. Traffic is quite light. Kellogg looked like a ghost town.
Man…some people are NEVER happy, right JR?
This morning you were calling the actions by the school board “stupid” to call off school before any snow fell. Now you are wondering why they didn’t make that call last night?
Must be terrible to be so angry all the time…
JR, I understand your questioin about the timing. It is my understanding that the determination is made about 4:00 a.m., based upon the best information then available, so that 1) school is not called off unnecessarily; and 2) if necessary to cancel school, the bus drivers can be notified not to come to work.
IIRC, last night there were forecasts of as little as 3″ of snow made. Sure, they could have canceled school then, given the uncertainty; but I don’t recall seeing many cancellations listed last night.
I thought it was stupid too, but they did get right this time. They went with the Bush doctrine, Pre-emptive skool cancellation.
And another thing, who are these people driving around with their Parking Lights on? Is it too much effort to click the dial one more click? Do they only want to be seen a little bit? Are they afraid of wearing out the headlights?Who are these people?
And what’s the deal with those airline peanut bags?
Angry? Who is angry?
This morning I called it unprecedented and yes stupid.
Had they been wrong about the amount of snow a whole LOT of people would be calling it stupid.
You really are hard up to catch me in something huh raptor? Don’t get a taste for it. You’ll starve!
I too was astonished when I heard on the morning news that school (work for me) was canceled for the day. I looked outside and saw no snow, but the weather forecast told the entire story. It was a good call. I went in about 7:00 am anyway; there is always something to do in regard to grading and/or prep. I stayed about 4 hours and headed home. The weather conditions have been deteriorating ever since. I’m glad we didn’t have to worry about getting our students home safely this afternoon. I agree with fleettwood about NOT turning on their headlights in these white-out conditions. What is so hard about turning them on?
Let it snow! I have a pot of world class chili in the crock pot, the fridge is stocked, my son WALKED to the store (a few blocks)to pick up his basics (Mountain Dew), the History Channel is on the TV, the cats have food in the cupboard, the fools are on the roads (not all drivers are fools, but ya know who you are), my e-mail is working and Cox hasn’t lost the cable signal (yet), so let it snow!
JR:are you always this pissy?
Naw, J R, can get a lot more pissy if he needs to.
“It’s all about the hatin’”
Ponders how many times the dare of sticking one’s tongue on a metal will occur today…
Well boys and pistol packing women … shall we call off the posse chasing local TV weathermen for issuing what appeared to be a preposterous weather prediction last night?
Early this morning, local weathermen, Pringle, Prater, Cornish and Freeman (not a law firm) were seen running from an angry mob and hiding along the frigid Arkansas River banks near a downtown bridge. If you see them, tell them its OK to come out of the river, they are off the hook this time … their weather prediction turned out to be on target.
Offer them a dry shirt and hot coffee … and suggest they return to work please. But we will be watching them!
JW
funny stuff
Sorry to bring this up after you all had so much fun in the weather today…
The title of this post is “water is the new oil”.
Think what we did in iraq for oil. Now imagine with me someday what people will do for WATER. Right here in kansas, right now!
And steve miller at sunflower electric thinks he has it tough? The thirty thousand acre feet a YEAR used by their proposed plant will be peanuts compared to this.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115×73802
hee hee hee hee hee hee
And the best part is, the righties will be in the dark ’cause they wont click on the link….
WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHING
When it comes to getting important information about the opposition, one standard means of obtaining it often comes up, infiltration — becoming a member of the state or local right-wing group For many of us, the Christian Right is an abstraction; we have never seen them close up. Hearing, rather than reading what they have to say, and how they say it, and experiencing how they operate, will be enlightening. In addition, you might find out when certain big-wigs are coming to town, when rallies will take place or when certain literature will be available. All of this can provide a basis for creative actions at venues where the media will be sure to turn up, making your job a bit easier. Infiltration is therefore, one obvious way of obtaining information but it can be very risky and difficult, especially if you want more than surface information. It takes a lot of effort and mental strain(having to sit through meetings quietly when people are going on and on about the “sins and perversions of homosexuality”, etc.) and often does not provide lots of information unless kept up on a fairly regular basis.
If you do decide to infiltrate, a church is a good place to get started. Is the church supporting any candidates, mentioning certain upstanding individuals in their sermons or extolling key political ideas? For instance, do they relate the Good Book to local government control or school choice? Do a lot of people in the congregation have fund-raising parties for certain members’ campaigns? Do any political groups meet in the church basement? If you already know of a right-wing church, you might get involved with the people there. Go to a pancake breakfast or a coffee hour on Sundays after the service. Find out if anyone knows how you can get involved with the campaign.
If you decide to go to church, the best way is to team up with your favorite fag. Why bring a fag date? For one thing, there’s safety in numbers. Another reason is that a single girl is everybody’s business; a married lady is above question. No matter what your age, without your husband you’re always a girl and people will feel free to examine you and ask you probing questions: “You’re here alone?”, “Who are your parents?”, “Are you new in town?”, “What do you do?” The more background you have to make up to create your identity, the greater the chances of making a mistake somewhere down the line. If you go as one half of a heterosexual couple, family privacy will reign and you won’t face such scrutiny.
From the Handbook of the Lesbian Avengers, against the Christian Right.
http://www.octobertech.com/october/handbook.nsf/pages/Christian+Right
Wal-Mart Gives $60,000 To Homosexual Group To Support Homosexual Agenda In Workplace
altCompany Goes On Record As An Advocate For The Homosexual Agenda
Dear Fred,
Wal-Mart has gone on record that they are an advocate for the homosexual agenda. In the Out & Equal 2006 Workplace Summit Program Guide, Wal-Mart placed a full-page ad which explicitly stated that it would be an advocate for the homosexual movement. Keep in mind this ad was developed for the homosexual conference and aimed at participating homosexual groups.
Not only did Wal-Mart place the ad in the program guide, they also gave $60,000 to Out & Equal, a homosexual organization pushing the same-sex agenda, including same-sex marriage, in the workplace. Out & Equal served as conference host and the donation went to help sponsor the Out & Equal Workplace Summit held this past September in Chicago.
The purpose of the conference was to train homosexuals to convince the companies for which they work to support the homosexual agenda and to encourage other companies to do the same.
At the conference, Pride, Wal-Mart’s in-house homosexual group, presented a PowerPoint presentation detailing how they were successful in getting Wal-Mart to support the homosexual agenda. The PowerPoint presentation, telling Pride’s story, contains 51 frames. Each page of the presentation contains the line “Confidential Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.” It was used to encourage conference participants to follow Pride’s example in the companies for which they work.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1738729/posts
The PowerPoint Presentation of the Pride group in pdf format:
http://www.afa.net/walmartsummit_small.pdf
The proof is in the puddin.
BOYCOTT WALMART!
Back in the old nic Will?
What’s the occasion?
SHOP AT WALMART!
Rabbi Praises Interfaith Effort That Kept ‘Gay Pride’ Parade Off Jerusalem Streets
By Jim BrownNovember 10, 2006
(AgapePress) - An Orthodox Jewish rabbi who is fighting what he calls “the homosexualization of the Holy Land,” credits outcry from the religious community in part for the derailing of WorldPride 2006, a homosexual pride parade that was originally scheduled to hit the streets of Jerusalem today.
According to Associated Press reports, homosexual activists agreed to cancel their homosexual pride march through the streets of Jerusalem and to instead hold a rally in a closed university stadium on the edge of town. Police officials in Jerusalem had planned to put 9,000 officers on the street after a week of rioting by ultra-Orthodox Jews, who threatened violence if the parade went forward as planned.
Joining Orthodox Jews in protesting the event were Muslim and Christian religious leaders, who opposed the homosexual march taking place in a city considered sacred by members of all three faiths. A deal reportedly brokered by the Jerusalem Police Department consigned the homosexual pride celebrators to an event in a stadium outside the city’s business sector. In return, the religious community has been promised there will be no future homosexual pride parades in the city’s streets.
Rabbi Yehuda Levin of the New York-based organization Jews for Morality is in Jerusalem to protest the parade. He feels Israel’s ultra-liberal Supreme Court has been very accommodating to homosexual activists; but nevertheless, he says, “the strong showing by the religious people of the city [of Jerusalem] was very effective in banishing the homosexual militants to the periphery, and as such, this is definitely a victory.”
Still, Levin observes, it is “sad” that homosexuals are being allowed to cavort publicly in a stadium in Jerusalem. He finds it regrettable that Jerusalem officials have made even this much of a concession to the homosexual activists, and laments that America has exported its “anti-cultural smut” abroad.
“The reason this is so important, this issue, is first of all because this is an assault on the very essence of holiness,” the New York rabbi contends. Jerusalem and Israel are “universally acknowledged as the Holy City and the Holy Land by people of all faiths,” he says, “so this is like an attack to the epicenter, to the spiritual nerve center of world.”
Although Jerusalem WorldPride 2006 has been contained, this will not be the last time leaders of different religious communities will have to stand together to oppose homosexual activism, Levin points out. He says he and other conservative Jews will be turning to the Christian community for help in fighting an attempt to legalize same-gender marriage in Israel and an effort to mandate curricula promoting homosexuality in grades K-12.
Maybe Will can explain to me how boycotting gays having employment is ’showing love for homosexuals’ that so many evangelicals claim they have.
They say they hate the act, but love the homosexuals…so does Will think they’re they having gay sex IN Walmart while working?
PFOX Official: Homosexual Activists Want to Censor Ex-’Gay’ Message’Tolerance Police’ Blasted for Opposing Ex-Homosexual Group’s Flyer Handout at MD High School
By Jim BrownNovember 16, 2006
(AgapePress) - An informational flyer distributed by an ex-”gay” group at a Maryland high school has administrators, faculty, and students who support homosexuality seething. Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays and Gays (PFOX) recently passed out the flyer to 3,000 students at Montgomery Blair High School in Silver Spring.
The handout distributed by the ex-homosexual group states its belief “in unconditional love for family members with same-sex attractions” and its goal of seeking “to eliminate prejudice and discrimination against former homosexuals.” PFOX executive director Regina Griggs says those who are raising angry objections to the flyer distribution are demonstrating intolerance. Also, she feels they are obstructing a legitimate effort to provide young people with certain facts about homosexuality.
“Children need to be able to have a free place where they can go and get information and not have someone promote an agenda and not provide them with accurate information,” Griggs asserts. “We want kids to know that change is possible,” she says.
However, the PFOX spokeswoman points out, “We didn’t even put that in the flyer.” The basic message that homosexual activists seem so eager to suppress was not even mentioned in this particular handout, she notes, adding that the handout “was very basic: here are some services we provide, please contact us, here’s our website — that’s it.”
Ironically, Griggs observes, self-proclaimed proponents of tolerance want PFOX’s flyer censored and facts about the medical and psychological effects of homosexual behavior suppressed, along with the very idea that sexual orientation is not immutable. These homosexual activists “do not want people to know that change is possible,” she says, and “they certainly do not want you to provide an alternative.”
These pro-homosexual tolerance and diversity advocates generally “see ex-gays as nonexistent,” the PFOX official contends. And when former homosexuals are introduced to society, she says, many homosexual activists become afraid that this “confuses the public and may actually be a deterrent to gay marriage and other civil rights that they believe they deserve.”
Nevertheless, Griggs says PFOX will not let opposition or hostility from homosexual opponents deter the group’s efforts to tell the public the truth about homosexuality or to let those struggling with unwanted homosexuality know that change is possible. The flyer distribution at Montgomery Blair High School, she suggests, was simply intended to let students know that information and help are available.
Last year, PFOX won a lawsuit challenging Montgomery County’s sexual education curriculum. In that case, a federal judge ordered the school system to toss out the biased, pro-homosexuality curriculum that made derogatory comments about Christian views on homosexual behavior.
“ultra-Orthodox Jews, who threatened violence if the parade went forward as planned.”
Religion of peace?
* No one is born with same-sex attraction (SSA).
There is no scientific data to substantiate either a genetic or biologic basis for same-sex attraction (SSA). On the contrary, eighty years of scientific research conclusively indicates that SSA is the result of temperament, familial, and environmental conditions.
* No one chooses to have same-sex attraction (SSA).
There are numerous causes of SSA, for example: lack of bonding with same-sex parent, over attachment with opposite-sex parent, same-sex peer wounds, hypersensitivity and sexual abuse.
* Changing from a homosexual to a heterosexual orientation is possible!
With strong motivation, proper support, effective counsel, and the love of God, people can and do change — not only behavior, but the very essence of their gender identity and sexual orientation.
“People can and do change their sexual orientation. I’ve done it, and I’ve helped others do the same.”
Richard Cohen, M.A., DirectorInternational Healing Foundation
http://www.gaytostraight.org/
MA in what field? Normally I would expect at least an MS if we are considering a professional in Psychology etc. What are this guy’s credentials to be making such sweeping claims that seem to go against everything psychologists say?
“eighty years of scientific research conclusively indicates that SSA is the result of temperament, familial, and environmental conditions.”
Published in what Journals? Peer-reviewed or just his house organs?
What I have read indicates the opposite.
Response of a former homosexual to this page:As a former homosexual sex addict, I found your pages, “Homosexuality: Seeing Past the Propaganda,” refreshingly insightful and consistent with what so many of us who have left homosexuality — disillusioned and disgusted with the reality of so-called ‘gay life’ — have experienced.– Ben Newman, PeopleCanChange.com(Received April 8, 2001)
http://www.jefflindsay.com/gays.html
Robert Spitzer, M.D., the prominent psychiatrist who helped remove homosexuality from the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic Manual’s list of disorders in 1973, recently gave a presentation to the APA presenting results of his study demonstrating that some homosexuals can change their desires to heterosexual. This surprising development, reported on May 9, 2001 at the annual APA convention in New Orleans, has been reported in many forums (though largely ignored by the mainstream press). Several online stories can be found such as the article by Robert H. Knight, “‘Gays’ Can Change, Psychiatrist Tells APA,” May 9, 2001, for Concerned Women for America, available online at http://www.cwfa.org/library/family/2001-05-09_hs-change.shtml and the article Latest Scientific Research: Those Struggling with Homosexuality Can Be Set Free at http://www.reclaimamerica.org/. Another good summary is available from The National Catholic Register.
Spitzer found what many former homosexuals have already demonstrated: homosexuals can change. That orientation is not necessarily innate and unchangeable.
Many former homosexuals know that homosexuality can be treated. The National Association for the Recovery and Treatment of Homosexuality (NARTH) offers valuable resources and information at their Web site Narth.com, including a discussion of the work by Robert Spitzer, and analysis of prior failed attempts to prove that homosexuality is innate.
Ben,
That’s all you’ve read? Did you check this out?
http://www.narth.com/
Ben,
Have you read the following pdf?
The Trojan Couch: How the Mental Health Guilds Allow Medical Diagnostics, Scientific Research and Jurisprudence to be Subverted in Lockstep with the Political Aims of their Gay Sub Components.
http://www.narth.com/docs/TheTrojanCouchSatinover.pdf
Syill a bit fringe. Actually, I tend to agree that SOME gays are ‘curable’ in that they are reacting to trauma or other problems. But, from what I have read over the years, they are a small fraction. Notice that Spitzer said ’some’, not ‘most’ or ‘all’
Bringing it to the political realm, why do we need to discriminate against tham?
Will, you just refuse to see the truth. All of the things you have said, the studies, are all disputed by other studies BY FAR.
The Meaning of Same-Sex AttractionBy Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D.
In this paper taken from an upcoming book, the author describes his concept of same-sex attractions as a reparative drive.
During twenty years of clinical work with ego-dystonic homosexually oriented men, I have come to see homosexual enactment as a form of “reparation.” The concept of reparative drive has been well-established within the psychoanalytic literature; in our application, the person is attempting to “repair” unmet same-sex affective needs (attention, affection and approval) as well as gender-identification deficits (Nicolosi, 1991, 1993) through homoerotic behavior.
Homosexual enactment temporarily relieves the stressful self-states that we repeatedly in our SSA clients: most particularly, shame, conflicted assertion, the depressive mood that I call the “Grey Zone,” and the social posture of the False Self.
For my clients, homosexual enactment does not represent their personal intentions, will or self-identity, and it is in violation of their aspirations and life goals. Gay life is unsatisfying to them, so they enter therapy in the hope of reducing their unwanted attractions and developing their heterosexual potential.
Homosexual acting-out, for these men, is an attempt at restoring psychic equilibrium in order to maintain the integrity of the self-structure. Through homosexual enactment, they unconsciously seek to attain a self-state of authenticity, assertion, autonomy, and gender-relatedness, but they have found that it eventually brings them none of those things-only a nagging feeling of inauthenticity, and still deeper discouragement.
(The article continues in the following:)
http://www.narth.com/docs/niconew.html
Is this the part where Will implodes and just keeps posting all the propaganda that supports his view while ignoring everyone else’s comments?
narth reminds me of other pseudo-science groups like the ‘creation science’ ones and the energy industry websites. I even remember similar ones claiming that smoking is good for your health.
And, even assuming they have something, why be punitive toward gays?
Will, you just refuse to see the truth. All of the things you have said, the studies, are all disputed by other studies BY FAR.
PM,What you know about “truth” pertaining to homosexuality has been spoon-fed to you by pro-homosexual militants who COMPLETELY DENY the existence of Ex-Gays, and the REALITY of rehabilitation! The difference between you and I is that you close your eyes if the truth is not in agreement with your worldview.
Why punitive measures will? I submit that “What you know about “truth” pertaining to homosexuality has been spoon-fed to you by anti-homosexual militants who COMPLETELY DENY the existence of aiological causes and the REALITY of gays living normally! The difference between you and I is that you close your eyes if the truth is not in agreement with your worldview”
Welcome to NARTH — a non-profit, educational organization dedicated to affirming a complementary, male-female model of gender and sexuality.
NARTH, founded in 1992, is composed of psychiatrists, psychologists, certified social workers, professional and pastoral counselors and other behavioral scientists, as well as laymen from a wide variety of backgrounds such as law, religion, and education.NARTH16633 Ventura Boulevard, Suite 1340Encino, CA 91436-1801Phone: (818) 789-4440
Hey don’t complain to me. I just got this stuff from these guys!Of course, since they aren’t in lockstep with the homosexual agenda (Plan A) Anything they say must be wrong! I’ll do my own thinking thank you!
Cru-X - fine, but why punitive steps to punish gays and anyone who might want to allow them to pursue their dreams? What are you so afraid of?
You’ll do your own thinking? Looks like narth is doing it for you!
Ben,Punitive action against gays? What do you mean by “pursueing their dreams” and where have I advocated “punitive action” and obstructing homosexuals in the “pursuit of their dreams?”
Will I don’t deny that there are homosexuals pretending to live as straights. Not at all.
I even know of one such ‘turnover’.
There are also people out there who swear they’re healed of demons by ministers who lay their hands on their foreheads and perform exorcism.
But lets stick to normal people ok?
You wanna boycot Walmart for supporting gays, I’d say that’s punitive.
Going after WalMart for hiring them and giving them benefits. Denying union for gay couples parallel to straight couples. Just a couple of examples.
By the way - I am heterosexual, married over 35 years to the same saint.
Is homosexuality truly normal?Scientific and medical communities are divided on whether it is a disorder
I refer to the view presented in your article, “Why Liberty League was offered funds” (Jan 25), to the effect that “scientific and medical communities had established that homosexuality was not a disorder”.
I am nonplussed by this statement as it is not borne out by facts. Firstly, homosexuality was classified as a mental disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) of the American Psychiatric Association (APA) until 1973.
After pressure tactics from homosexual activists — including riots and disruptions of APA meetings — the APA buckled. Psychiatric experts were led to negotiate the pathological status of homosexuality with homosexuals themselves.
Science was politicised and, hence, carried no probative value as scientific truth.
On this issue, the scientific and medical communities are divided in opinion. It is incorrect to assert that scientific and medical communities had established that homosexuality was not a disorder.
The APA, in removing homosexuality from its list of disorders, was forced to narrow the definition of psychological disorders. Numerous pathological conditions such as paedophilia, voyeurism, fetishism, sexual sadism and masochism fall outside the new revised definition of psychological disorders.
Dr Robert Spitzer of the APA, who played a pivotal role in removing homosexuality from the DSM list of mental disorders, dealt with this point by saying that if the sadists and fetishists were to organise as did the gay activists, they too might find their conditions “normalised”.
In a subsequent study where he investigated the claims of former homosexuals, Dr Spitzer concluded there was credible evidence that change was possible and that the homosexuality trait was not fixed. In an interview, he had said that those who denied change was possible “have not been honest and (have not) taken the time to do the research”.
A disservice is done to the public by not disclosing the real state of affairs — good corporate governance calls for accuracy and transparency in media reporting so that it can better serve the people of Singapore.
Your article also put forth the view expressed that Liberty League was backed by a Christian group and implied that therefore it was disqualified from receiving funding from NVPC. This view is misleading.
It pre-supposes that it is wrong for the Government to provide funding to any organisation that seeks to promote the welfare of the people if the members of the organisation profess a religion (about 80 per cent of the population). Only people without any religious convictions may participate.
This attitude is disruptive of a multi- religious society. It elevates secular humanism above all the other religions practised in Singapore.
Secular humanism is neither morally neutral nor proven to be morally superior. Singaporeans should be aware of the pitfalls of such arguments which seek to deny the relevance of one’s religious values in any matter of public interest, and to erode the religious freedom guaranteed to the people of Singapore under the Constitution.
NVPC funding of Liberty League is laudable as there is a great need for this kind of work. More of such projects which seek the betterment of our people should be encouraged. An analogy may be drawn with any funding by the Government of organisations that deal with battered women, abused children, or people suffering from gambling addiction.
Are groups with a religious world view other than secular humanism disqualified?
Surely not. We should be grateful for people who are prepared to stand up and give of their time for such community work.
We should encourage more selflessness and less narcissism in our society.
Thio Su Mien
* * * * *
http://www.yawningbread.org/apdx_2006/imp-254.htm
I figure it this way: I do not in any way understand “gay”; all I know is that they exist and from what I read most are born that way. But, they don’t bother me and I do not fear them. So, let them be. Let them have jobs. And, if in a committed relationship, let that have the same ptotections under caeser’s law that I have.
I am nonplussed by this statement as it is not borne out by facts. Firstly, homosexuality was classified as a mental disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) of the American Psychiatric Association (APA) until 1973.
After pressure tactics from homosexual activists — including riots and disruptions of APA meetings — the APA buckled. Psychiatric experts were led to negotiate the pathological status of homosexuality with homosexuals themselves.
Science was politicised and, hence, carried no probative value as scientific truth.
On this issue, the scientific and medical communities are divided in opinion. It is incorrect to assert that scientific and medical communities had established that homosexuality was not a disorder.
The APA, in removing homosexuality from its list of disorders, was forced to narrow the definition of psychological disorders. Numerous pathological conditions such as paedophilia, voyeurism, fetishism, sexual sadism and masochism fall outside the new revised definition of psychological disorders.
DO YOU GET IT YET? YOU ARE ALL BEING STRONG-ARMED INTO ACCEPTING SOMEONE ELSE’S IDEA OF “TRUTH.”
CIRCA 1973!!!!
Hey pol mom?
Welcome to “WEblog kook theatre.”
You’ve missed XCrusaderWill’s exploits of the past.
Back to the old nic and NOW this screed against homosexuals Will?
I always said you were disturbed.
I’m gonna take a guess here and guess that Will is a self hating homosexual. I know of no other way to explain this outburst.
Remember that former Florida representative Mark Foley was a rock ribbed opponent of homosexuals. He was also a closet homosexual.
WIll do you have something you want to reveal? Self hate is a terrible thing.
JR,
According to the Lesbian Avengers Handbook Against the Christian Right, it is their standard operating procedure to INFILTRATE churches and hold key positions of leadership within the Right wing. Who knows if Foley was one of these infiltrators? I wouldn’t put it past them. Well done JR, you’ve proved to be a valuable asset to your homosexual masters!
Um, nope Will, you’re being rather psycho right now though, so I’m sure we could find a definition for you in the DSM IV too.
ROFLMAO so Foley is not only a pedophile (which has nothing to do with being gay) but he’s a lesbian as well.
Now doesn’t that just beat all.
Why Isn’t Homosexuality Considered A Disorder On The Basis Of Its Medical Consequences?
By Kathleen Melonakos, M.A., R.N.
I worked as an RN for several years during the eighties and nineties at Stanford University Medical Center, where I saw some of the damage homosexuals do to their bodies with some of their sexual practices. As a result of that eye-opening experience, I much admire the work of NARTH in the research and treatment of homosexuality.
I have long been concerned about the serious medical consequences which result from the gay-affirming attitudes that predominate in the San Francisco Bay Area. For example, I knew personally a prominent dermatologist, a dentist, an engineer, and a hairdresser that died in their mid-forties of infectious diseases related to their homosexual behavior patterns. I know of many others that have died young as a result of living a gay lifestyle.
The co-author of my own medical reference book, Saunders Pocket Reference for Nurses,[i] was the head of the surgery department at Stanford. She related case histories of homosexuals needing emergency surgery due to “fisting,” “playing with toys,” (inserting objects into the rectum) and other bizarre acts. I am certain–in light of my clinical experience, and since doing considerable amount of studying about it since that time–that homosexuality is neither normal nor benign; rather, it is a lethal behavioral addiction as Dr. Jeffrey Satinover outlines in his book, Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth.[ii]
As far as I know, there is no other group of people in the United States that dies of infectious diseases in their mid-forties except practicing homosexuals. This, to me, is tragic, when we know that homosexuality can be prevented, in many cases, or substantially healed in adulthood when there is sufficient motivation and help.
I now live in Delaware and work in conjunction with the Delaware Family Foundation to inform the public about homosexual issues. We are debating gay activists who want to add “sexual discrimination” to our anti-discrimination code. In trying to make the case that homosexuality is not healthy and should not be encouraged, we come up against the fact that neither the American Psychiatric Association, nor the American Psychological Association recognize it as a disorder. Our opponents say we are using “scare tactics.”
Dr. Satinover brilliantly laid out in his book, Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth the solid, irrefutable evidence that there are lethal consequences of engaging in the defining features of male homosexuality–that is, promiscuity and anal intercourse.
(continued in the following:)http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/narth/medconsequences.html
I’ve found Will’s disorder…
Religious or Spiritual Problem
“In a survey of APA member psychologists, 60% reported that clients often expressed their personal experiences in religious language, and that at least 1 in 6 of their patients presented issues which directly involve religion or spirituality”WOW 60%, wonder what the figure is for gays changing over to straight.
Congratulations!You have all proved yourselves to be exactly the kind of saps the militant homosexuals have strong-armed into believing that homosexuality isn’t a psychological disorder. Like the American Psychological Association did in 1973, you buckled under pressure from the homosexual militants who FORCED THEM TO POLITICIZE SCIENCE AND HENCE, CARRY NO PROBATIVE VALUE OF SCIENTIFIC TRUTH.
Take a bow.
Um, Will, as far as the nurse’s experiences with damage to their bodies…
I’ve seen and heard of MORE HETEROSEXUAL ER visits than homosexual ones. She conveniently left those out of her study huh.
HAHAHA! Cru-X, you are funny when you say that anyone who doesn’t buckle under the pressure of gay-hating militants have somehow been politicized.
I don’t know if JR is right or not but it sure would explain a lot!
Study up on your history.
http://www.narth.com/docs/annals.html
;^)
Will, please explain how you’re loving homosexuals by denying them jobs?
Can you tell me why who someone else has sex with affects you in any way?
The ALL-CAPS is a dead giveaway of an idiot.
Will, CrusaderX, whomever you are. I’ve never understood: What are you anti-gay folks so afraid of? The gay people I know are almost always fine folks. I suspect the percentage of haters is way less than in your circles.
Ben,
I’m going to prove to you that you’ve been had. Are you ready?
Ok,
Is homosexuality a psychological disorder?
Yes or No.
Reasons for your answer.
That goes for you too Peemom! and heck, even JR can join in!
Well, you know what they say about homophobes…
Dennis,
I do not deny that gay folks are never fine folks. Of course, I’m not talking philanthropy here. I’m talking scientific integrity. You have to prove that the APA removing Homosexuality formerly known as Sexual Orientation Disturbance in light of the riots caused by homosexual lobbyists is indeed not a politization of science, and as a result holds no credibility.
RD,I wouldn’t know what they say about homophobes. Your branding me as a homophobe because I question the integrity of the American Psychological Associations action of buckling under pressure from homosexual lobbyists in 1973 is telling of your “social conditioning.”
Come on people! This is a blog! Surely a community as illustrious as the WEBlog isn’t uncomfortable in talking about homosexuality? Why should we masquerade under the guise of political correctness if it does nothing but hinder us from true interpersonal dialogue!!??
Still raging, still unhinged. What foul wind blew CrusaderX back into the WeBlog?
Did they let him out on a 72-hour pass? Or did the latest round of electroshock just get finished? Maybe the “Conversion therapy” finally took hold. Who knows.
Welcome back, CrusaderX. Can’t say as I missed you.
hmph! Maybe I should wait till tomorrow when KSFarmgirl gets here. It will be refreshing to speak with someone with BALLS for a change!
Man, the churches are really going after gays! Spirit One Christian Center is leading the way here in Wichita. Is anyone surprised? (What’s so Christian about denying your brethren?)
A few days ago, my daughter handed me two brochures. One is titled, “Are You Good Enough to Go to Heaven?” It boils it all down to the 10 Commandments and tells me that I’ll be spending eternity in hell.
Wrapped up in the same brochure is anti-gay propaganda. That’s pretty much all it is, calling for the “saving of Wal-Mart.” The Plan B pill is also mentioned in this little flyer of theirs. Don’t they understand that if we were all homosexual, we wouldn’t need birth control?
These were handed out on the sidewalk just off Wal-Mart property. Reminds me of the Gideons passing out Bibles on the sidewalk just off school property by an inch or two. I’m really glad it wasn’t handed to me. The last time someone tried to hand me something, I scared the hell of him with 4 words…Don’t even think about it.
I’m tempted to reply via email, as they’ve requested, and let them know what I think. I’m betting they’ll let me know that they’re praying for me. Hey, the more praying for me, the less I have to do, right?
Will (and Spirit One), get a life. Stop trying to propagandize everyone and force people to believe as you do with your tracts and brochures and warnings of hell. Either God is vengeful or Jesus Christ is forgiving. Please make up your mind…if you have one.
No homosexuality is not a psychiatric disorder. Gays have all the same traits heterosexuals do except they love a person of the same sex. There is no conflict except for the ones that think it’s something to be ashamed of.
So WHAT if the psychological community removed it from their list of disorders. It should have never been on there in the first place.
You refuse to answer the questions laid before you, but you keep ranting on and on.
Something is wrong with YOU.
CruX, hon, would you choose to be something considered vile and hated by the “chosen few?”
Oh, wait a minute. You already have.
If Spirit One Christian Center is going after gays does that mean their defrocked pastor Mark Holick is on meth blowing gay prostitutes?
So Will is a member of the Spirit One church is he?
RD,When I was a teen, I had a friend who was a drug addict. He was a very dear friend of mine. I told him everyday to quit and he always responded angrily, cursing and even hitting me sometimes. If I didn’t tell him what he was doing was killing him, what kind of a friend would I have been? Sometimes the truth isn’t what we want to hear, but it is necessary if we are to attain peace.
Kook Will?
My “homosexual masters”?
I have ONE homosexual friend.
I find it odd that your screed began right after a totally unrelated post from that friend.
Sheesh Will you are an intelligent (if disturbed) person. This blog has seen you go “boom” many times. What lit your fuse this time? And why the reversion to the most discredited nic in the history of this blog?
LOL so you’re back to saving them because you love them…
So do you go protest places that hire drug addicts too? I don’t see you protesting outside of McDonalds.
I am not doing this for my own sake. I have nothing to gain by spending time in front of a computer screen arguing with people. Think about it. All I ask is that you consider the possibilities that we are all being deceived. If anything, it is the most liberal thing I can do.
Answer me why it matters to you if Walmart hires or supports gays.
What about protesting divorced people? Going to do that too?
Stand outside protesting Jews?
Protesting ANYTHING that in your mind makes them die instead of going to heaven?
No, see Will, it’s not about your so-called Christian love, it’s all about the hatred.
Political mom,
There are people who complain about being harrassed for being gay. That is a fact. It is also a fact that it is possible for gays to be rehabilitated, corrected? (I’m not sure what word is best.) So, think about this a little: if gay people are complaining that they are getting harrassed for being gay, then why aren’t the pro-homosexual militants telling them about the alternative rehabilitation therapies!? Is that helping them? No. If there is a solution, then it must be proclaimed! That is how you help gay people!
Homosexual riots? Militant gay agenda? Medical professionals intimidated by roving bands of lesbians? Liberace runs loose on the streets demanding understanding?
WTF?
How did we morph from snow storms to gay bashing? More importantly, why did we descend into gay bashing?
Is Wal-Mart having a sale this week?
The question I have to ask when someone starts a ridiculous debate that being gay is a “choice” is very simple: give the social and political climate, why would ANYONE choose to be gay?
Personally I have always found that the more homophobic a person was, the more likely it was that the individual was a closet gay.
Not that I am implying anything, Will, but how’s your closet looking these days?
Why back to the old nic Will?
What are you trying to reveal?
Hey guy I’ve stood up for you when everyone and I mean everyone wanted you gone.
You SAY you are trying to help. I say you are crying for help,
Will, gays don’t need to change and they don’t need therapy. I’m sure if they wanted to they could seek out the information on the net just like you did.
That’s your problem. Not theirs.
So answer me why you’re so concerned about what they’re doing.
CrusaderX,
Bullshit. The ‘rehabilitation’ of gay folks is tripe. Junk science. Balderdash. They aren’t ’sick.’ And the ‘therapies’ don’t work. Pure fear-driven, homophobic quackery.
You’re way, way worse off than you realize. Everybody else can see it but you.
I posted the Walmart fiasco as an example. These are the same militant homosexuals who deny the existence of “ex-gays” and hide the fact that gays can be rehabilitated! Sure, it doesn’t affect me in the least, but I at least I care enough to tell the truth, that there is help out there!
CF,
Where are your credentials in psychology to back up your dismissive claims? I trust you have worked extensively with homosexuals and are highly regarded among your peers in clinical psychology to be making such bold, absolutist statements!
Why back to the old nic Will?
Will? People are trying to help you.
They realllllllllly don’t want your help. Trust me.
So move on to rescuing someone else k?
JR,
I’m only going to say this once:
There is nothing wrong with me. I am sane. I have nothing to hide. So you can stop being a smart-ass and get back to the topic at hand!
If homosexuals can be “rehabilitated” can hetrosexuals also be “rehabilitated?”
The fact is, no true medical/scientific study has been done that has proven that a homosexual has been “converted.”
Exodus and similar groups have made numerous claims, but theirs is truly wishful thinking.
FYI - The two original male directors of Exodus ended up hooking up and now are in a committed relationship - with each other.
CrusaderX,
Burden of proof is on the person asserting the hypothesis, not on the one denying it. That’s the way science works.
I think Ben Huie did quite a nice job contextualizing the claims made on the websites above, and showing how questionable they are from an empirical and experimental standpoint.
WSClark,
Yes, yes, we’ve all heard of Exodus, but you should check out the NARTH website.
http://www.narth.com
Will,
Other than the ability to use Google, what credentials qualify you to hold forth on “repatriative” or “conversion” therapy? You seem singularly lacking in expertise and critical acumen.
Oh, and here’s the APA’s statement debunking the very therapies for which you are advocating.
http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/publications/justthefacts.html
CF,A double-edged sword, considering that the only scientific proof they had of homosexual activity in the animal kingdom were in chemically manipulated fruitflies. In the experiment the male fruit flies did a courtship dance with each other, however no “mating” ever took place. There is also the danger of anamorphizing insect behavior which must be taken into consideration.
Yeah the posters on the NARTH blog (the very few actual homosexuals that posted) say this is a load of balogne.
Where are all these converts they proclaim can be converted?
Will, how much time do you spend surfing the net to come up with this stuff? If you surf long enough, you can come up with “evidence” to support virtually any claim. Most any POV can be supported with some kook website - just visit Free Republic.
The fact that you found information to support your prejudice does not make it reasonable. The fact is - there has never been a documented scientific study that has confirmed the conversion of a homosexual to hetrosexuality.
Wouldn’t your time be better served supporting the rights of all people rather than focusing discrimination against a single group that (most likely) has no impact on you or your life?
Will that is not true, that is a baldfaced lie. MANY different species and types of animals have been shown AND RECORDED practicing homosexuality.
CF,You are unaware of the APA’s history of striking homosexuality formerly known as sexual orientation disturbance from the its list of psychological disorders as a result of overwhelming pressure that took the form of militant homosexual activist groups disturbing APA meetings and threats of rioting in 1973.
Oh, it is also worth mentioning that nobody here, nobody wants to talk about it either.
Will,
If you’re going to just, well, make shit up and not provide links, we aren’t going to get very far.
Here’s a hilarious debunking of NARTH’s Joseph Nicolosi, by Ed Manier of the University of Notre Dame.
“On Thursday, 9/11/97, at 8pm, psychologist Joseph Nicolosi addressed a middling crowd in the Hesburgh Library Auditorium on the subject “Healing Homosexuality”.
Putatively, Joseph Nicolosi’s visit to Notre Dame was intended to acquaint us with (scientific, folk psychological ?) evidence supporting his brand of reparenting therapy for homosexuals. But Nicolosi’s talk raised many more questions than it answered.
Who is that guy? What does he have a license to practice? Anything? Anywhere?
His organizational webpage, http://www.narth.com, identifies him as Director, Thomas Aquinas Psychological Clinic, Psychologist. He holds a Ph.D. form the California School of Professional Psychology. Under California’s “generic” licensure of psychologists, Nicolosi need have never had clinical supervision in therapy for sexual orientation, nor for behavioral or psychodynamic therapy for preschool children.”
http://www.nd.edu/~amanier/leftjab.html
Bottom line: the whole “movement” you’re touting, Will, is bullshit. Scientifically bankrupt and professionally discredited. A bunch of nutjobs just like you.
They’re funny. You’re sad.
Peemom,Are we defining animal sexuality as well? So you are saying that a male dog who has sex with a male dog is psychosomatically a female and will refrain from having sex with female dogs indefinitely? Well, if you have a dog and it doesn’t “get around much and you have another male dog around the house, it might just try to hump it as opposed to your leg. But throw a bitch in heat in their and I can guarantee you it will have nothing but her on it’s mind.
You just said in an earlier post that it never happened. Now you’re retracting and saying that because it happens SOMETIMES….
Make up your mind.
I’m beginning to think there really IS a reason why you’re so anti-gay.
Will, dude, quit while you’re ahead.
OK, I was being nice. You aren’t ahead. But you should still quit.
Sidebar to PeeMom:
It’s not a “baldfaced lie”.
It’s a bold-faced lie.
Just FYI
Actually goof, you’re not wrong, but you’re not correct. BOTH terms are correct. If you’re from the South, like me, the usual term is bald faced.
You should really do a google before you type sometimes.
http://www.bartleby.com/61/82/B0038200.html
LMAO. “you should…”
I love it when a …aww, nevermind.
Bald faced (correctly: bald-faced) makes no sense. But, since you’re from the south, i’m not surprised that making sense doesn’t matter.
It’s bold-faced. Webster.com.
(FYI, I’m still laughing about your use of “a gleaning example” - man oh man, that was funny.)
Jesus gooftesticles, you just CANNOT admit when you’re defeated.
PS, your bashing of the south just alienated about half the people who vote like you.
Dipsheet.
“That is a gleaning example of…”
*snicker*
Priceless
“…the only scientific proof they had of homosexual activity in the animal kingdom were in chemically manipulated fruitflies.”
It’s obvious these scientists never spent time on a farm.
The only “rehabilitation” of gays is to send them back to the closet.
JR may only have 1 gay friend. I have several. They’re just like the rest of us.
Will, one question? Do you enjoy watching porn movies with 2 women? Or 2 women and 1 man?