Talk about taking Christ out of Christmas.
The Marines’ Toys for Tots campaign in Los Angeles has decided to turn down a donation of 4,000 dolls, on the grounds that the $20 dolls look like Jesus and quote Scripture.
“We can’t take a chance on sending a talking Jesus doll to a Jewish family or a Muslim family,” said Bill Grein, an executive with Toys for Tots.
Perhaps not content with igniting a month’s worth of talk-radio harangues, Grein went on to add: “Kids want a gift for the holiday season that is fun.”
Posted by Dave Knadler
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115 Comments
Why don’t they just set them out on display and allow people who do want them to take them?
Stupid political correctness at it’s stupidist as always.
It’s not stupid Nathan. How would you feel if your child opened a muhommed doll for xmas? And the guy was right, what kid has asked for a Jesus doll this season?
Lots of people celebrate christmas for being the pagan holiday that it really used to be. Ya know, before the Christians stole it.
JJ, and I suppose you consider yourself a Christian?
Saw the subject dolls on tv this morning — look as much like a Osama Bin Laden type terrorist as it did Jesus. We have been carrying this political correctness stuff to extremes for quite a long time
It was a pagan holiday?
The Marines are very wise to exclude the Jesus Doll. They are preventing a whiney mess. If they had Jesus this year then we can count on every fucking religious symbol doll on the planet next year.It is the responsibility of the parent to introduce their child to Jesus.This has nothing to do with political correctness.The Marines have proven again they are AMerica’s finest.As for you whiney Christians-it is not the Marines responsibility to push religion on children.
Can anyone tell us that they truly enjoyed playing with a Jesus doll when they were a kid?
Grow up people. These are poor children – they want fun toys. No matter what your spin is – there is nothing fun about Jesus.Imagine little Johnny burying his Jesus doll and then returning 3 days later, sitting there on a mound of dirt waiting all day for Jesus Doll to come to life again.
Maybe Bush could have them passed out in Iraq.
Give them to Ned Flander’s kids.Wouldn’t this be a graven image?
Ken, there’s a reason it looks like OBL.Jesus was from the same region.He was a Jew.Not a christian.Not a european.
OK children,
Let’s think about this a little. If you are Muslim or Jewish and your celebrating Christmas…here’s where the thought comes in…how can you possibley be offended if someone gives litle Achmed or Bernie a Jesus doll?
Just wondering,
Hank
Even the most christian little kid couldn’t help being dissapointed.(but Dad, I wanted GI JOE!!)
The problem is that many different faiths have chosen to celebrate Saturnalia. Since Toys for Tots tends to lump everything together it is unrealistic for them to try to sort out which toys go to which families.
I am sure that there are various church-based organizations who can distribute Jesus, Moses, etc toys for those who are celebrating Hannukuh or Christmas at this time of year.
Gotta agree with Jim on this..one Jesus doll this year, and next year every religion on the planet would be lining up (and hiring the ACLU to sue) demanding their religion be represented.
Makes me wonder who donated the 4,000 Jesus dolls and what was their motivation?
pmom is about as ignorant as they come. her bias always shines through in her posts. just look around this blog to see.
Take this tip from your neighborhood friendly Heeb (me).
Jewish kids typically receive a small gift at Chanukkah, and its possible that a low income Jewish family might receive some gifts from Toys for Tots.
Its only logical for them not to accept religious gifts as they are not a Christian organization and they help ALL kids, not just Christian kids.
It might do us all a world of good if we pull our heads out and look at the world in an equal way.
LOS ANGELES, California (AP) — A talking Jesus doll has been turned down by the Marine Reserves’ Toys for Tots program.
A Los Angeles company offered to donate 4,000 of the 1-foot-tall dolls, which quote Bible verses, for distribution to needy children this holiday season.The battery-powered Jesus is one of several dolls manufactured by one2believe, a division of the Valencia-based Beverly Hills Teddy Bear Co., based on biblical figures.But the charity balked because of the dolls’ religious nature.Toys are donated to kids based on financial need and “we don’t know anything about their background, their religious affiliations,” said Bill Grein, vice president of Marine Toys for Tots Foundation, in Quantico, Virginia.As a government entity, Marines “don’t profess one religion over another,” Grein said Tuesday. “We can’t take a chance on sending a talking Jesus doll to a Jewish family or a Muslim family.”Michael La Roe, director of business development for both companies, said the charity’s decision left him “surprised and disappointed.”"The idea was for them to be three-dimensional teaching tools for kids,” La Roe said. “I believe as a churchgoing person, anyone can benefit from hearing the words of the Bible.”According to the company’s Web site, the button-activated, bearded Jesus, dressed in hand-sewn cloth outfits and sandals, recites Scripture such as “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again” and “Love your neighbor as yourself.” It has a $20 retail value.Grein questioned whether children would welcome a gift designed for religious instruction.”Kids want a gift for the holiday season that is fun,” he said.The program distributed 18 million stuffed animals, games, toy trucks and other gifts to children in 2005.
Tracy-Ian is OK, he just craps too close to the house. The bad news is that it’s in his pants! I wonder if that is where Hank got the expression “pant load”?Anyway, Ian is OK; just be sure to stand upwind and everything will be fine!
Ian is OK if you happen to be a dung beetle.
well…listen up America…i bet we would have no problem if a company decided to donate a “prophet” momo doll..of course not, we are supposed to tell our kids its their “free” right to know and repsect the muslim religion, even when it does not deserve it…here is one truth you better believe………KNOW JESUS, KNOW PEACE…NO JESUS, NO PEACE! I have been over there in the desert and trust me they need peace, not mohammud…they are uneducated and deserve to know there is a better way through JESUS, that strapping a bomb to your child, spouse or self is not going to get you 99 virgins! please tell me what a child, or woman is going to need 99 virgins for? Are you kidding me, NOW is the time to tell your neighbors about JESUS! Even those people living in other countries!
chaz, Jesus is one of the prophets of Islam already.
Here’s a few more Islamic prophets you may recognize:AdamEnochNoahAbrahamIshmaelIsaacLotJacobJosephJobMosesAaronEzekielDavidSolomonEliasElishaJonahZechariahJohn
Chaz – being familiar with the recent history in Ireland; the reformation and all its bloodshed; the oft-repeated Pogroms against Jews and ‘incorrect’ Christians; the Crusades; genocide against native peoples in the Americas, Africa and Asia – ALL in the name of Christ – I have to wonder about the peacefullness of THAT religion as well.
I thought the talking Jesus looked like Val Kilmer. PLUS, did anyone read about the sayings that talking Jesus blurts out? He only uses the word “he” not she or they. I personally don’t care, but I’m sure NOW and other organizations would love that…watch out Jesus, here comesGloria Allred!
God is a woman?
Chaz – being familiar with the recent history in Ireland; the reformation and all its bloodshed; the oft-repeated Pogroms against Jews and ‘incorrect’ Christians; the Crusades; genocide against native peoples in the Americas, Africa and Asia – ALL in the name of Christ – I have to wonder about the peacefullness of THAT religion as well.Posted by: hmmm … | November 15, 2006 at 09:01 AM
You need to re-study your history then. Crusades might be a different story, but the basis of faith once it developed into the hands of people rather than Church Monarchs was quite different.
You brand a whole faith for the actions of a few, is quite typical of those wanting convenience of where to point their finger for blame.
The leaders of these attacks did not represent all Christians.
But since you like convenience and most likely unwilling to study how history actually was, go ahead and believe what you want to believe.
Jesus IS one of prophets in Islamic tradition. So, this may offend them in similar way as portrait of Muhammed as well.
Ian, you hate Jews.Jesus IS a Jew.Fuck you.
On that case Ian, ALL of the Abrahaimic religions are “moon worship cults”
JM – “You brand a whole faith for the actions of a few”
Just as chaz was doing. That was my point. All three of the Abrahaimic religions have their good and their bad, as do other religions as well. I do NOT brand all Christians with that – I just don’t like seeing other faiths similarly branded. (I am married to a Catholic by the way, she is a peaceful as they come, as is our local Priest)
It’s the peace and love thread!
Actually, here’s what I want to know: how did the Wingnut who talked some stupid shit about political_mom manage to do so without registering a name? Here’s the post:
“pmom is about as ignorant as they come. her bias always shines through in her posts. just look around this blog to see.
Posted by: | November 15, 2006 at 08:12 AM ”
Typepad wouldn’t let ME post anonymously. Has somebody figured something out here?
CF, I was wondering the same thing!Has one of our resident trolls figured sumpin’ out?A “non-breaking space” maybe?
Ok
Now can ANYONE honestly tell me that they would have enjoyed such a toy when they were a child? Do you know ANY child who WOULD enjoy this toy?
See? There’s your answer.
I think what you’ve got here is a small toy company with a poorly thought out toy. The toys did not sell so…..give them to Toys for Tots and get a big fat tax write off for charity!
I think if you are honest,most of you christians will realize this toy is NOT a good idea.
Boring toy that it is, the mind of a child would find all sorts of creative employments of it. Jesus in a tea dress, Barbie clothes, Jesus and Barbie in a convertible,
I’m cracking up here
Imagine seeing some little kid with this doll strapped to a rocket. He pushes the button and hears “No man get to Heaven but through me.” Then ya hear the kid say “Let’s test that!” as he lights the rocket fuse.
Wasn’t there something about graven images?
chaz – you are one insane piece of shit. It most certainly IS everyone’s right to know and respect any religion they choose. That’s what freedom of religion means – you’re free to practice your faith, and others are free to practice theirs. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it wrong.And if you have indeed been “over there in the desert” then you are one I do NOT thank for defending my freedom.
I guess I’m missing something here. Can’t risk giving this doll to a Muslim child for Christmas…isn’t that the concern they have expressed ? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I didn’t think Muslims celebrated Christmas. Can somebody clue me in here ?
rm – as I noted above a number of religions celebrate Saturnalia. They have adopted it to their various belief systems. Since this solstice celebration has become ubiquitous it has also left its basic religious roots.
By the way, I don’t know that shepards are out in the fields all that much that time of the year.
OK, and thanks. But every Toys for Tots campaign I’ve ever seen, or even heard of, in my lifetime had Santa Claus handing out toys, not SAturn !?!
hmmm, my Church history is a bit weak; do you recall when the early Church leaders determined to adopt the Saturnalia time as the time of the birth of Christ? It seems to me that this occurred in the 4th Century.
And, as you point out, given the weather in that part of the world, not too many shepherds in the fields tending their flocks by night in December.
C. In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it. Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.[2]
D. The problem was that there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia. To remedy this, these Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th, to be Jesus’ birthday.
E. Christians had little success, however, refining the practices of Saturnalia. As Stephen Nissenbaum, professor history at the University of Massachussetts, Amherst, writes, “In return for ensuring massive observance of the anniversary of the Savior’s birth by assigning it to this resonant date, the Church for its part tacitly agreed to allow the holiday to be celebrated more or less the way it had always been.” The earliest Christmas holidays were celebrated by drinking, sexual indulgence, singing naked in the streets (a precursor of modern caroling), etc.
F. The Reverend Increase Mather of Boston observed in 1687 that “the early Christians who first observed the Nativity on December 25 did not do so thinking that Christ was born in that Month, but because the Heathens’ Saturnalia was at that time kept in Rome, and they were willing to have those Pagan Holidays metamorphosed into Christian ones.”[3] Because of its known pagan origin, Christmas was banned by the Puritans and its observance was illegal in Massachusetts between 1659 and 1681.[4] However, Christmas was and still is celebrated by most Christians.
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm
Thankfully, the weather in most of the U.S. in December puts a damper on naked singing in the streets!
If somebody doesn’t beat me to it, I’m gonna find out more about the origins of this doll.
Are there other dolls in this line? John the Baptist with remvoeable head? Moses with staff with “snake action”? AJonah and the whale playset?
Hey there is a REALLY GOOD reason they turned down this toy.
From the header: “decided to turn down a donation of 4,000 foot-high dolls”
4,000 feet high!!??
That’s not a doll it’s a monument! Try shoving that under the tree!
Political Mom is right. Chrisitanity took pagan, goddess-based events and twisted them to build its political power base. Pagans understand their religion is comprised of symbols and myth. Brainwashed Christians fail to comprehend, let alone accept, that their precious Bible is nothing more than a collection of myths woven by political tyranny.
…and Santa Claus has WHAT to do with the birth of Jesus?
I guess about as much as the easter bunny does with the crucifixion and resurrection.
Tell me again about how these are NOT pagan in origin?
heheheheh
this is a test
Yeah JR, I was chuckling at some of the prospects for “playing dolls”.Don’t know about you, but when I was a kid, my GI JOES always ended up NAKED with the neighbor girl’s Barbies!!
See that’s what I’M sayin’ Trace.
Picture it…..
Mother goes to check on daughter who has gone a little too quiet.
She is shocked to find daughter with naked Jesus and Barbie dolls.
“Honey! What are you doing with our lord and savior?!!?”
“They’re havin a sleep over Mommy. And picking out outfits.”
“Now can ANYONE honestly tell me that they would have enjoyed such a toy when they were a child? Do you know ANY child who WOULD enjoy this toy?”
Well, I don’t know. When I was 6 or 7, I received an 18 inch statue of the Virgin Mary (Catholic upbringing), and it was among my favorite things for a while. Couldn’t play with it, though. Drop a ceramic statue and it shatters.
JR, you’re killing me!
JR, at least he wasn’t NAKED with KEN !!HA
Children are a wealth of Biblical knowledge… the following comes unedited from tests given to elementary students in a Catholic school.
PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO THE WORDING AND SPELLING.1. IN THE FIRST BOOK OF THE BIBLE, GUINESSIS. GOD GOT TIRED OF CREATING THE WORLD SO HE TOOK THE SABBATH OFF.2. ADAM AND EVE WERE CREATED FROM AN APPLE TREE. NOAH’S WIFE WAS JOAN OF ARK. NOAH BUILT AND ARK AND THE ANIMALS CAME ON IN PEARS.3. LOTS WIFE WAS A PILLAR OF SALT DURING THE DAY, BUT A BALL OF FIRE DURING THE NIGHT.4. THE JEWS WERE A PROUD PEOPLE AND THROUGHOUT HISTORY THEY HAD TROUBLE WITH UNSYMPATHETIC GENITALS.5. SAMPSON WAS A STRONGMAN WHO LET HIMSELF BE LED ASTRAY BY A JEZEBEL LIKE DELILAH.6. SAMSON SLAYED THE PHILISTINES WITH THE AXE OF THE APOSTLES.7. MOSES LED THE JEWS TO THE RED SEA WHERE THEY MADE UNLEAVENED BREAD WHICH IS BREAD WITHOUT ANY INGREDIENTS.8, THE EGYPTIANS WERE ALL DROWNED IN THE DESSERT. AFTERWARDS, MOSES WENT UP TO MOUNT CYANIDE TO GET THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.9. THE FIRST COMMANDMENTS WAS WHEN EVE TOLD ADAM TO EAT THE APPLE.10. THE SEVENTH COMMANDMENT IS THOU SHALT NOT ADMIT ADULTERY.11. MOSES DIED BEFORE HE EVER REACHED CANADA. THEN JOSHUA LED THE HEBREWS IN THE BATTLE OF GERITOL.12. THE GREATEST MIRICLE IN THE BIBLE IS WHEN JOSHUA TOLD HIS SON TO STAND STILL AND HE OBEYED HIM.13. DAVID WAS A HEBREW KING WHO WAS SKILLED AT PLAYING THE LIAR. HE FOUGHT THE FINKELSTEINS, A RACE OF PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN BIBLICAL TIMES.14. SOLOMON, ONE OF DAVIDS SONS, HAD 300 WIVES AND 700 PORCUPINES.15. WHEN MARY HEARD SHE WAS THE MOTHER OF JESUS, SHE SANG THE MAGNA CARTA.16. WHEN THE THREE WISE GUYS FROM THE EAST SIDE ARRIVED THEY FOUND JESUS IN THE MANAGER.17. JESUS WAS BORN BECAUSE MARY HAD AN IMMACULATE CONTRAPTION.18. ST. JOHN THE BLACKSMITH DUMPED WATER ON HIS HEAD.19. JESUS ENUNCIATED THE GOLDEN RULE, WHICH SAYS TO DO UNTO OTHERSBEFORE THEY DO ONE TO YOU. HE ALSO EXPLAINED A MAN DOTH NOT LIVE BY SWEAT ALONE.20. IT WAS A MIRICLE WHEN JESUS ROSE FROM THE DEAD AND MANAGED TO GET THE TOMBSTONE OFF THE ENTRANCE.21. THE PEOPLE WHO FOLLOWED THE LORD WERE CALLED THE 12 DECIBELS.22. THE EPISTELS WERE THE WIVES OF THE APOSTLES.23. ONE OF THE OPPOSSUMS WAS ST. MATTHEW WHO WAS ALSO A TAXIMAN.24. ST. PAUL CAVORTED TO CHRISTIANITY, HE PREACHED HOLY ACRIMONY WHICH IS ANOTHER NAME FOR MARRAIGE.25. CHRISTIANS HAVE ONLY ONE SPOUSE. THIS IS CALLED MONOTONY.
Truth the secular media want print.
http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/12min.htm
I’m sorry I can’t help myself. I just got way too many ‘visuals”
“Son? Is Jesus sharing the gospel with Woody, Buzz Lightyear and GI Joe?”
son: “Huh? Naw! They were just makin’ fun of the homeless guy with no gadgets! You know like you were that guy at the library the other day! But at least he had a backpack. This guys got nothin’!”
Winter Solstice, Ramadan, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, and Christmas are all celebrated around the same time of the year.
Ken, guess why December was chosen to celebrate the birth of Christ and many others? The Winter Solstice. And there’s more. The birthdate of Mithras was also December 25.
“The Jesus story incorporated elements from the tales of other deities recorded in this widespread area, such as many of the following world saviors and “sons of God,” most or all of whom predate the Christian myth, and a number of whom were crucified or executed.
Adad of AssyriaAdonis, Apollo, Heracles (”Hercules”) and Zeus of GreeceAlcides of ThebesAttis of PhrygiaBaal of PhoeniciaBali of AfghanistanBeddru of JapanBuddha of IndiaCrite of ChaldeaDeva Tat of SiamHesus of the DruidsHorus, Osiris, and Serapis of Egypt, whose long-haired, bearded appearance was adopted for the Christ characterIndra of Tibet/IndiaJao of NepalKrishna of IndiaMikado of the SintoosMithra of PersiaOdin of the ScandinaviansPrometheus of Caucasus/GreeceQuetzalcoatl of MexicoSalivahana of BermudaTammuz of Syria (who was, in a typical mythmaking move, later turned into the disciple Thomas)Thor of the GaulsUniversal Monarch of the SibylsWittoba of the BilingoneseXamolxis of ThraceZarathustra/Zoroaster of PersiaZoar of the Bonzes”
http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins3.htm
and this for similarities:http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins4.htm
So if I wish you Happy Holidays or Seasons Greetings, now you know why.
WWJD?Who would Jesus Disrespect?
Oh man that stuff is WAY better than anything I got!
Egads
Tracy, JR, RD…etc.
There is room in hell for you all.
Yeah tell me something I haven’t already heard.
Tell me how you do that no name trick “asdf@asdf.com” Then you might have something.
RD..
According to the Bible there were many “sons of God”.
Genesis 6
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
Testing out the latest troll trick.
I just put nothing in the name field, CF. Works fine.
Rage
P.S. No, I’m that other person, but I suppose I could insult someone anyway: Hey, , try posting something of substance!P.S. No, I’m not th
Oops. How about this?
They’re just using spaces.
Once again, why couldn’t they just put the dolls on display and allow those who wanted them to take them?
It is a good compromise.
Either way, the entire thing is all about political correctness.
The Marines don’t hand out any toy guns either. (For obvious reasons)
All this talk about cool toys and what not? LOL Obviously you have not seen most of the toys which are collected.
Don’t get me wrong, they are toys for the most part are good, but most people don’t donate the quote “cool” toys. Most of them are all the off brand cheap generic things you can buy.
Our unit handed out thousands of Jessica Simpson Christmas music CD’s a couple of years ago. We had so many of the things we were throwing them around like frisbees.
Then there was the year where we had enough Incredibles phones to sink the titantic if she never hit an ice berg.
I was giving out Incredibles Phones to my friends entire family. Every Marine was taking boxes of them home…
Oh well, it is really a non issue.
There are still going to be thousands of children in every city all over the country who will still get some toys.
“There is room in hell for you all.”
And for you, too, Troll.
Judge not, and all that rot.
Nathan,
I think you just confirmend my theory.
What you have here is somebody trying to unload unsold toys to get a tax deduction.
The Bible does not offer Christians as a plan of salvation, it offers you Christ.
Well done, RD.
kansassam,
Which brings us back to polytheist, doesn’t it? Or was I reading that wrong?
Thank you, Pagan. There are more than just you here.
At least the Marines are helping make Christmas happier for some boys and girls. Between them, Hell’s Angels, and other organizations, less and less children will have to go without a gift this year.
As for the Jesus doll, yes, not offering it is being PC, but is that necessarily bad?
Sure it’s a nice toy for some children who are or of believers. However the whole point of the doll is ministry as I would see it. And since it is ministry, I can understand the Marine Corps rejection of the gift even though I think it is just more political correctness run amok personally. I’m sure there are plenty of church’s that distribute toys than can take the gift in.
I’m curious – Does anyone know what other religions have in the way of Christians “Great Comission?” “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations….(Matthew 28:19-20)”
I don’t know if there is any and this would be a reason why you don’t see Chanukah Harry and Jihad Joe dolls.
KIA, It’s my heretical view that Jesus proclamation has been widely misunderstood.I don’t believe he wanted another religion, he wanted spiritual disciples.He had much to say AGAINST organized religion(s).
KIA – I think that at least an interpretation of the Quran says something similar; both islam and christianity have a history of “convert or die”. They also all share a bit of the “master race” (God’s chosen people) idea with the older Abrahaimic religion Judaism.
I believe organized religion under the Christian flag is entirely screwed up as well Tracy (Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Luteran, etc.). Christians believe (or I think should) in Christ period. Anything else within the religion is just putting a road block between you and the Lord.
I’m not sure if that’s what you mean as far as misinterpreted?
I’ll finish the reference”baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
…and the unspoken “unless you are gay”….
Actually, I wouldn’t call it PC so much as showing some minimal respect. If you give a jewish kid a doll quoting Christian scripture, that says a lot about how much you respect their religious beliefs.
‘PC’ is more about going to extremes to protect people from perceived offense, even when they haven’t necessarily asked for said protection.
Granted, jewish families who objected too much might be seen as too paranoid. After all, when have the jews ever been persecut . . oh, wait, never mind! ;-)
P.S. I see from the O’Reilly’s show that the phony “War on Christmas” crap has already started. Sigh. .
Just for fun I asked my Jewish lawyer if he plans to bring his Menorah to christmas party again this year. He said probably yes.
Jesus never mentions homosexuality in any of his teachings.I’m sure if He did however it would be along the lines of how we taught regarding the “sinful woman.”(Luke 7:44-48)
Or of the woman caught in adultery.(John 8:1-11)
PC’ is more about going to extremes to protect people from perceived offense, even when they haven’t necessarily asked for said protection.
Interesting definition Rage.Now in my opinion, that’s exactly what the refusal of the dolls is.
Besides the perceived attack on Christ, it really is a moot point. The Marines aren’t the only group helping out underprivledged kids at Christmas.They really should give them to something like Samaritan’s purse or something like that. Otherwise it does smack of a PR ploy.
RD..
Some may think so.. I believe in the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. I believe the Father is the Creator of all but the other two… I am not totally convinced they are three in one.. they could be. The Bible talks about other gods.. little ‘g’, and I think that the Norse, Greek and Roman gods were probably these referenced in Genesis….
“Besides the perceived attack on Christ, it really is a moot point.”
I entirely agree, and it’s a fascinating and bizarre perception. Some Christians apparently think that any resistance to spreading their beliefs, no matter what the reason, is equivalent to bigotry, period. Don’t think; react!
Talk about PC.
Perceived attack is right. I suppose if the dolls had been of some other Diety then not distributing them might be ‘perceived’ as an attack on that Diety as well.
Chaz dude, man are you scary or what? I thought you KNEW PEACE? Yeah you sound real peaceful.
Chaz, if you’re over there you might want to educate yourself on their religion, it’s not 99 virgins, you’d think someone in IRAQ would know that it’s 72 virgins.
Would it be wrong to give a Prophet Mohommed doll for Xmas, absolutely!
Ken yes Christmas and many other Christian holidays were converted because they wanted the pagans to quit celebrating their festivals. So they made Christianity more inviting by melding them together.
Read some history of holidays.
And as far as the anonymous poster goes, well he’s just a post and run chicken sheet. Doesn’t back up what he says, just bombs and blows. I’m not worried about him at all.
Blah blah blah, it is not a slight of Christian religion to say no thanks. Lest we forget all the young children who weren’t protected by Marines when their priest molested them, sodomized them, and manipulated the kids into blowing these Men of the Cloth.I say we should look under the clothes of Jesus Doll, maybe he’s hung and it’s an attempt by Ordained Christians to get little kids used to playing with dicks.Clean up your own backyard. Religion is for the family, it is not for abusing the benevolance of the Marines. Let us not forget – Marines are trained to but bullets into bodies. We need them, but their mission isn’t really a Jesus principle.This quote from the company who was pushing Jesus Doll should explain it all:”The idea was for them to be three-dimensional teaching tools for kids,” La Roe said. “I believe as a churchgoing person, anyone can benefit from hearing the words of the Bible.”
Mr. La Roe is a good example of what I find wrong with American society. I’ll give in to the fact that this country is by majority a mostly Christian nation. However – I really think there is an accepted disassociation of our Constitution from the pushy over-hyped opinions of Christians.I am not religious – go figure. I am one of those people who has always been struck by how grown adults can believe in stories from the bible. I don’t mean to be completely disrespectful to believers but if you were in my secular untrained position it would truly strike you odd to see the overt yet unacknowledged hypocrisy in the Christion community.When secular people and secular organizations act upon their constitutional rights and those rights run negative to Christian points of view then our airways and newspaper opinions are plugged full of satanic references, of accusations that secular groups are attacking religion, the list goes on and on. It’s a never ending onslaught of criticism from the religious circles.Now, when one of their own crashed and burns (Pastor Ted Haggard) they go into a trance about the power of forgiveness, how great God is, and how they will pray.I just want to scream, “shut the fuck up!”Why can’t the various religios groups act like a local Lion’s Club. You go to meet once a week, you plan to serve the community, and in-between you just shut your mouths.If Jesus truly existed I hope he returns and all these rapture jackasses will be standing with their arms raised waiting for that special moment. Jesus walks by them and approaches me, he says “Joe, thanks for caring for people and thanks for loving people. Thanks for protecting your family. Thanks for being a person who apologizes when you wrong. Thanks for understanding that you cannot be righteous. Thanks for leaving that ice cream in your fridge, I ate some while you were sleeping. Well, Joe, I better get on with my travels. Joe, my visit here will draw a lot of attention. Please use your voice to share your methods. I like how you are willing to leave people alone. By the way, the bible is all fiction. There is no way a human can live too much past 100 years of age…and there is no possible way to load 2 of every animal on a boat. Can you point me in the direction of a laundromat and a barber?”I say, “bye Jesus…hey, tell my grandmothers how much I love them.”
KIA, yes. Kind of.
Now, before I get into particulars, let me do a disclaimer.I may be liberal, but, if you profess to be christian, then there’s a few completely unexplainable and irrational things that you must accept in faith. The immaculate conception, the vicarious atonement, and the resurrection (therfore God transcendent) are paramount and the crux of what we as christians MUST believe.As a liberal, almost all other points of contention are open to discussion. Okay?One little disccussed part of His mission was to create an egalitarian society within the establishment.Now this was no trivial matter in those times, like it may have been for hippies dropping out in the sixties.The whole reason that Rome occupied Israel was to exploit the established egrarian society. Jesus intended to break this cycle of exploitation by just not participating, not playing by their rules. Even worse for the governors, he was a charismatic speaker who was convincing hoards of others to do the same. Follow?Okay, I do believe He is who we say He is, but I do not believe he imagined all that would be done in his name. Especially this worldwide beaurocracy that breeds hypocrisy. I do believe he intended to establish a growing movement of attraction, not promotion. I believe that somewhere down the evolution of the bible, the “great commision” was added or edited to read this way by one of the groups commonly referred to by theologians as the JEDP. That is, Yahwists, Elohists, Deuteronomists & Preists.Preists being the likely suspects, as by the time they arose as an entity, the Church was an extablished organization that deisred mass membership for their own personal reasons. Still with me?So in conclusion, I do think He intended to form an affiliation that was to do the things he commanded such as feeding the hungry, healing the sick, loving your neighbor even if he’s a different color, and generally loving and caring for others who would follow Him and his ways of love and forgiveness.
And that’s about all I can say about the great commision.
Jim G, to paraphrase George Carlin:”Religion is like a new pair of shoes. Put them on, walk around a little, see how they feel.If they feel good, if they give you a lift and make you happy, by all means, KEEP THEM.Wear them all the time if you wish!
But whatever you do, for God’s sake, don’t take them into to the jungle and nail them on the native’s feet!
Tracy, well said. You are much kinder than I.I agree, Jesus wants very simple principles – love one another. This includes, like you said, that we care for the sick, feed the poor, and work for peace.Isn’t it odd that so many Christians are GOP. The party that wants to axe most social dollars and denounces different people (homosexuals)and takes us to war.Why in the world -and I truly absolutely mean this, how can the entire Christian community not protest the war??War is killing. Killing is so very unChristian. Instead, the GOP Christians spend their time and dollars denouncing all the liberals who are protesting the way – and for very Christian like principles.My God, religion is just so very very fucked up.
Jim, that’s why every now and then I post Mark Twain’s ‘War Prayer’.You’re familiar with that?
IMHO, modern conservatism and biblical fundamentalism are both completely at odds with what Jesus said.That’s why I tell people that I’m a RED LETTER guy.Try this, go through and read ONLY what Christ said (the red letters).If you don’t agree with my opinion after doing that, Ill be surprised.As christians, loving tolerance should be our code.
Jim, Tracy, you guys give me hope for Christianity yet.
And I do believe in a God, not necessarily the God in the bible, but I’m almost positive that a real God would not want us to suffer and hold such a rigid, downright cruel regime.
I think like Jim, I hope someday to go before God and have him say to me, “you’re a good person”. And that’s what matters.
Thanks for the reminder, Tracy!
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/making/warprayer.html
No Jim,You’re just acting out your frustrations because of your painful past. Your religious community failed you and now you seek to blame the entire system of the Christian religion because of its shortcomings. Even now, you seek to pervert the message of Jesus Christ. You think that all it takes for your redemption is to “be a good person.” But “being a good person” while not having faith in the Gospel does not give you redemption, Jim. To have faith in Jesus Christ is to believe that he is the Messiah, the Son of the Living God. The only fictitious aspect of your understanding of the rapture is that faith in the Son of God is nothing, and that all you have to do is “be a good guy.” Nothing could be farther from the Truth.
You might as well had been responding to me Will, so I’m going to answer you, even though your words were directed towards Jim.
It’s not that my religious community failed me. It’s that the standard to live to of almost perfection is not possible. The sooner people give themselves a break, human nature is just that. The sooner you realize that the less guilt.
Constant temptation of absolute good and evil is absurd. Why would God give us life to be tortured throughout it all? That makes no sense coming from a so-called loving God of the bible.
Fear fear fear, Christianity is based on fear. If god is a loving father, would you tell your kids that they have free will, but if you don’t abide, you’re not only going to be killed, but you’ll suffer eternally? Sadistic is what that is. No, my religious community didn’t fail me, the religion did.
Then you look at the big picture of the entire world, with all the different peoples, and think that God only chose one group over every other…no matter how remote, how uneducated, we are all still human.
The only logical conclusion: religion is bogus. It’s been proven bogus by the study of all the other religions, how they are so intermingled, how corrupt.
I feel much as you do pol mom.
But my travels here HAVE found me those among Chrstians I respect. Kansassam for one.
What bothers me is not that they’re Jesus dolls, but that they were obviously donated to a secular organization by a religious group or individual for the express purpose of forcing it to take sides in their little culture war. There are plenty of religious groups collecting toys who would have been thrill with the donation, but this donor was just playing dirty pool! Aren’t christians supposed to be above all that?
Will,Your judgment of my religious experience proves me exact point. You came by your beliefs through parental influence. So, this belief you have is yours – not ours. Your experience is the opposite of mine, but you label me as having a bad religious experience.I think I am blessed to not be associated with the Catholic Church.And your religo-babble about mesiah just does not resonate with me…in logical terms. How is it possible that you would believe if you had not been raised to believe?Being raised to divide and judge seems very unusual and different from the direct teachings iof Jesus.I don’t think Jesus forbid masturbation….but your church does. I don’t think Jesus forbid divorce…but your church does. Jesus did not forbid homosexuals…but your church does. You see, its the religion that is the problem. Certainly you must have a much more acute understanding of Catholism than I. What I see in you is that you are willing to ignore the hypocrisy of your church and just focus on the hugeness of the church. The Pope is absolutely nuts…that whole group of guys walking around in robes…what is that? The Pope was not chosen by divine direction. He was voted in democratically.Holy Shit Will, someday when you have a life outside of celibacy and judgment, you too will be confronted by the lunacy of Catholicism.For instance – what’s with all the rules? How can they go back and forth about fish/meat on Friday? What did Jesus say? Or maybe that rule like all the others is a mortal rule.Will, I will go to heaven. I will go there no matter what. There is absolutely no existence of hell. Jesus never spoke of hell.If Jesus didn’t say it, I’m not buying it….and you are a damn warped brainwashed fool for not decrying the worthlessness of the Catholic church. You have a dark spot on your soul because you continue to remain a Catholic after the uncovering of the scandals that cardinals and bishops hid the unlawful sexual molestation of children.Hell, they didn’t even show concern for the children. They worked their hidden syndicate to hide the molesters.If that shit happened at the YMCA I bet you would drop your membership.It is very very very un-Jesus like to walk this earth demeaning people for not believing your dogma.See you in heaven…hopefully not soon. Get this, Saddam, Hitler, Dahmer, they all went to heaven. I know that hurts you and makes all you believe in worthless but God gave us all free will and how we use that free will is our choice. Everyone goes to heaven. Even whackos like you.
Here’s a question for Will:The soldiers we all care for and worry for are over there killing people. They are killing.What do you prescribe for them? Go the confession? Say a penance? And they are free to go?What about all the people who have never heard of Jesus Christ…and they die…where do they go> Are they not allowed to go to heaven – because they haven’t signed on to the Christian religion?What happens to Jews?The world is much much bigger than your little commmunity church. Grow up, piss ant.
Your wrong Jim G.
Dave,you stated your opinion like a true Christian.Jim
I tell it like it is
Dave,You tell it like you were taught to tell it.I could respect religion if it kept to itself…but ya’ll can’t leave the rest of us alone.J
Okay Jim I’ll leave you alone. Have a good night. I’ll pray for you, that is all I could do for you right now. And have a Merry Christmas.
thanks dave…I pray too but I don’t say it to condescend people like you do. I don’t believe I am righteous.
Jim..
Jesus did not say that everyone will go to heaven, and he did talk about hell in Matthew 16:18..
John 14:6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me”.
Matthew 7:13-1413 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
But God did proclaim this, and I believe it may apply to those who never had the opportunity to accept Christ.
Exodus 33:19And the LORD said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Jesus Christ!I but out last night with two agnostics beginning to have hope for christianity in the world,AND LOOK.All the good will, and will-to-good that they were beginning to feel was dashed upon the rocks of fundamentalism in one swift stroke!! DAMNIT.Jim, Pmom. Let me apologize for Will and Dave.They SHOULD be embarassed as christians.They are not.Seems to me that they are more concerned with wanting everyone to be the type of christian they are, rather than just being a disciple in the spirit of non harmfullness.Once again, fundamentalists and conservatives are in direct conflict with Christ’s teachings of compassion, inclusiveness, loving tolerance, and non judgement.They feel that they are indeed rightous, and have already recieved their reward.
Tracy, you are a wise man.
The Marines are now accepting the toys. They say they have found an appropriate place to distribute them.
If they can be assured that they will be distributed to a place where they would not be pushed/foisted on non-Christians or, every bit as possible and importantly, Christians that find the things blasphemous or just plain tacky, then I see no problem with it.
Watch for the likes of Bill O’Lielly to beat their chests over this.
“They say they have found an appropriate place to distribute them.”
Good deal!
But, as you noted, ksagnostic, count on O’Lielly to declare it a victory in a battle by the forces of evil, secular humanist ACLU liberals to wipe religious faith from the face of the Earth.
What a piece of shit.
Another typo, but I find it amusing (find it, folks! :-).
You meant “over” instead of “by”?
Yep.
heh heh
That IS funny.
I just had to share, as much as I’ve tried to allow my daughter to learn her own way with God, I guess it rubs off anyway. She said to me tonight upon viewing a commercial with the nativity scene…”hey, what’s with the naivety scene?” LOL.
pmom, kids say the darndest things.