After a two-year fight, Attorney General Phill Kline’s office now has edited copies of the medical records of 90 patients who received abortions, Associated Press reported. His investigators are reviewing the records to determine if any crimes were committed. No doubt the pressure will be on to find something to help justify what critics have called an ideologically motivated fishing expedition. But Pedro Irigonegaray, an attorney for a Planned Parenthood clinic in Overland Park, says the clinics didn’t do anything wrong. “Nothing whatsoever in those records supports the proposition that our clients have violated the law,” he said.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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164 Comments
Now when he starts investigating LIVE BIRTHS to underage mothers we will know he really gives a rat’s ass about statutory rape.
Until then, he’ll just run against the straw boogie man.
Or is child rape ok with phillllll as long as there is a live birth that results?
first things first ya know.
Prevent women from having safe and legal abortions.
THEN he’ll worry about child rape…
When I keep seeing these types of things, I can’t help wondering if Phil Kline isn’t the carp of politicians!You know their reputation.
phillllll better hope this headline isnt true.
“Election may hinge on unmarried women.”
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/midterm_elections_2006
Ummm, so the attorney for Planned Parenthood says nothing in the records shows the clinic broke the law. Wasn’t the whole point that men were illegally impregnating underage girls and then using abortions to cover up the crime?
If so, that explains why live births are less important and why the clinic did nothing wrong. It’s the father of the aborted baby who is covering up a crime through abortion.
Oh, I forgot to add that all identifying information has been redacted to avoid invasion of privacy. Oh, and also that the court approved subpeonas were for the purposes of looking for cases of incest and child molestation and had nothing to do with the abortion provider clients of Mr. Irigonegaray. That’s all.., I think.
So Kline just got the records. These are the same records we’ve been hearing for months that he already has and how they have lead to cases being filed here and in other states right? Any of you right wingers want to tell me how Kline was able to get charges filed based on records he didn’t have?
On another note, I’ll put money on it that charges are filed by the end of the week against someone (rightly or not) so that Kline can justify his witch hunt and try a last minute rally of the base.
gster,You’ve just offended every carp that ever lived!
Phill’s phishing expedition has never been about underage sex- that’s just an after-the-fact excuse for his attempt to intimidate women who might seek an abortion. You can bet your bippy that copies of those files are now wending their way to his Operation Repulsive friends, who will attempt to send postcards with pictures of supposedly aborted fetuses to all those women’s family, friends and employers, and make anonymous calls to them at 2am. They’ve done that before. Troy Newman of OR has also advocated shooting women who have abortions in his recent book. Such good christian love!
“Everyone knows that unmarried moms can’t vote. They are just not smart enough.”
My daughter is an unmarried mother and not only is she more than capable, she is obviously more capable than you are.
Among other things, she learned how to use capital letters when she was about six years old.
But don’t hurt yourself trying to come up with one of your smarmy replies – you have frequently shown your absolute lack of intelligence on this forum.
BTW – Are the rumors that you are really a man true?
Jed- I think you’re right. It was a bad analogy in that a carp at least serves a useful function!
WSClark,
Are you sure you’re addressing the right poster? There have been several posts made under the nic of political_mom, but that haven’t been the real one.
And if that was the real p_m, knowing how she feels about the issue, the entire sentence was couched in heavy sarcasm.
So what’s Kline’s next step? Checking prescription lists to see who is purchasing birth control? Or will he hit those who have used the morning after pill first?
Excuse my lack of familiarity with the nic issue, but how could I know if the slam addressed to single mothers was from the real (?)political mom or a fake one?
If the psot was from a faker, well, I apologize. If it was from the real p_m, well, then I stand by my orignal post.
Say, wasn’t it Pedro Irigonegaray who testified at the KBOE hearings in support of Darwinian evolutionary theory?
Makes sense. Both causes devalue human life, and have a lot of the same supporters. You have to hand it to him, Ol’ Pedro is consistent.
The important thing is, as a lawyer, you get your name out there.
I thought the voting post was from the real political_mom, just her being sarcastic.
There was a fake political_mom post on the “Don’t expect Bush to blink on Iraq” thread recently and there was no mistaking it was not the real one.
“Makes sense. Both causes devalue human life, and have a lot of the same supporters.”
I am convinced that you believe this. Why else would you embarass yourself so much?
Abortion is one issue that libs love to defend and I think it makes them look uncaring.Nothing can stand in the way of “choice”. Not reason, not common sense. As I’ve said here, I’m a 3 month pro-choicer, but you people make me sick.
hotlick – I haven’t seen a whole lot of defending abortion, especially late term, on this thread.
Hotlick,If you are sick, and I agree, you are, go stick your head in the toilet and take deep breaths while you’re in there.CHOICE does not mean anyone wants to destroy children. Choice means it is not your or my business what a woman does with her body.
hotlick – I invite you to join me in supporting alternatives such as Gerard House. I’m sure catholic Charities will happily accept your donations.
Good one Jim
I already support Gerard House
Outlander-ish,Let me see, science? or stories?I’ll go with science…We go to school to learn science, proven science, and then some of us go to church where some asshole with a ministry degree attempts to refute science.It amazes me that people let the emotions and wishful thinking take heed over science.Whatever Jesus did I am absolutely convinced that we don’t know.Those who profess to know are the scariest people out there i.e. osama bin laden, pat robertson, jerry falwell, terry fox, rush fatbaugh,and outlander.
Good. That makes two of us.
Time to put up or shutup dicklick.
“Abortion is one issue that libs love to defend”
Post a link to one person here who promotes abortion.
I see posters who defend a woman’s RIGHT TO CHOSE.
But no one defends abortion.
Geez.
Put up or shut up dicklick.
Sniff, sniff, sniff.
Deep inhale. Deep exhale.
Yep, I LOVES ME THE SMELL SOME RIGHT WING DESPERATION.
It must just SUCK to be you guys this year…
A distinction without a difference.If I wanted to kill my wife, wouldn’t that be my right to choose how I live in my household.It is my house and she’s inconvenient and she doesn’t get to vote on it.
Post a link to someone here defending abortion. Put up or shut up dicklick.
It is a distinction WITH a difference if yoiu are a thinking person.
If not… I rest my case.
Your wife can live on her own, outside of a mother’s womb. Probably outside of your influence, too.
A first trimester fetus can’t.
See any difference there?
Planned Parenthood was founded by a racist by the name of Margaret Sanger, who said all of the following;
“More from the fit, less from the unfit”"Human weeds”"We dont want word to go out that we are trying to exterminate the Negroe population.”"Birth Control, to create a race of Thoroughbreds.”
Planned Parenthood was founded by the most successful racist in history, Margaret Sanger.
Guilt by association?
heheheheh
Two words.
Ann Coulter.
You lose.
So, since this individual was bad anything and everything she ever said is evil.
I suppose if she once said that 2+2=4 then we must conclude that 2+2=5 instead.
For the record, I am not a fan of Sanger.
Ann Coulter – isn’t she the one who said the only thing that her hero Tim McVeigh did wrong was not blowing up the NYTimes.
Interesting, Paul F Rosell supports blowing up buildings full of people (by association).
BenAnn Coulter’s humor is sometimes over the top.I can easily find liberals, elected and in the media, who have said far worse than Coulter.The fact remains that abortion law, and planned parenthood, have a very racist past.
So does the republican party paulie.
…and homophobia as well as racism. And they support torture.
Why do you hate americans paulie?
Hotlick,If you were to kill your wife it would be doing her a favor.Your attempt at an intelligent analogy did not work. You are one dumb son-of-a-bitch.BUT – I do not doubt that you believe you are the HEAD of your household and that your wife is treated substandardly.You are the reason I am proud to be a democrat.
Rosell came BACK?
I though he slunk off in shame after going over the top and proclaiming himself the arbiter of truth!
Geez Rosell you are a masochist (enjoys pain and humiliatiion) as well as delusional?
Abortion will always be with us. This will not change.
I think your analogy would be more appropriate, hotlick, if you asserted the right to REMOVE your wife from your house, because it’s YOUR house. If she dies as a result of being kicked out, then that’s sad–but it was still within your rights to kick her out.
Of course, she’s an autonomous human being and can survive without being inside your house. Which makes the whole analogy quite ridiculous altogether.
Back to using abortion as a bright shiny object! People do not be side tracked by this issue.Right now it is the future of this country that is at stake.
For too long we as the public have been distracted by issues that maybe important but do not cause the raise or fall of the nation.
Gun control, abortion, etc have been used to make the voters ignore the major issues.
No, I promise, that comment wasn’t made by me. I’m signing in under keypad now. WS watch out for the trolls!
Paul says that pro-choicers have a racist past? Love how you throw out a statement like that with absolutely not one iota of factual basis for it. Figures coming from you.
Hotlickydicky, your wife also doesn’t live OFF of you, as in, actually her life depends on yours for survival. Nobody can remove a fetus from my body if I’m ill and have someone else incubate it. And you’re wrong, it’s not UNCARING to be pro-choice, it’s exactly the opposite. We care a great deal about the emotional turmoil a crisis pregnancy causes, and don’t tell women that their only choice in deciding how to handle their own life and body is not having a choice.
LOL I’m really a man? Now that’s a new one! Oh and WS, I was an unmarried mom for nearly 10 years, do you really think I’d say something like that?
writerdog: And the evolution vs creation debate is another detour around real issues.
The 3 G’s, JWink.
Guns
God
Gays
Abortion and evolution/creation fall under God, if you’re wondering.
Can anyone tell me why the majority of the records Phill Kline was given, are for ADULT women and not children?
If it’s all about the child rapists and all…
PM,Most likely because he couldn’t find that many abortions done on underage girls. As someone who volunteered to escort women past the howlers, I saw very few underage girls (I checked ID’s), and the few that did come were accompanied by their parents.
Jed, dont confuse them with the facts!!! They like their own fantasy world better.
And I did get a “search successful” for arrest records for paulie the shillie. I just couldnt down load them without paying a fee.
And frankly, he isnt worth a pitcher of warm spit, much less $30.
I’d rather give the $30 to the ACLU.
That outta piss him off……
Farm Gal,Maybe now that Pale Pall been outed as having an arrest record, he’ll feel the need to fess up to us, his only public.C’mon Pall, what did you get busted for? Halucinogens? Attempted date rape? Indecent exposure? Littering?
But he’s not supposed to HAVE the records of the adult women in the first place. That’s not what he’s supposed to be looking at.
When y’all talk about a woman’s right to choose, what exactly is she choosing between?
No takers?
Hmmmmm
I’m in.What exactly is she choosing between? Seems to be a fair question.
Hey “So”?
In YOUR case, my guess is a womans right to choose means you spend lots of lonely nights hating people who get laid while you do not. Word? Punishing others for having sex won’t get you any.
Can’t say. But I notice that the women at the bar usually choose to ignore lil ‘ol me. Well, except at that one that’s used to be next to the Original Big Sky Bar.
Go back to Alabama or Texas or wherever you’re from.
If you don’t like abortion, vote for candidates who will make it illegal.
Oh, that’s right, there aren’t any.
O…K….Uhm, is that a response to what women are choosing JR? Kind of hard to figure your response out.
Punishing others for having sex. So kill a kid because some lame ass was irrisponsible and didn’t use birth control.
Beyond your attempted jabs, was that your message?
OK, got some takers, but not one of them seems to want to make the statement. Abortion is killing kids. Logn and short. No way around that one.
JR: So you sent from protesting the killing of babies, to promoting abortion’s casual use as a remedy for whorin’ around.
Liberalism is a disease, and it is apparently progressive.
If “abortion is killing kids,” Sol, why is it legal?
Obviously, the Supreme Court didn’t see it that way in 1973 and they don’t see it that way now.
A fetus is life, no question. But when it becomes fully HUMAN life is the crux of the problem that has no resolution.
What I don’t understand is why you gung-ho right to lifers continue to support people like Bush and Kline who pay lip-service to stopping abortion, but then don’t do anything past the cosmetic.
Are you really that dumb?
Capn,so when is the magic moment?
I don’t know.
That’s why I leave up to a woman and her doctor to decide, rather than Washington, DC.
Capn,Prety weak.
Weak again on the Repubs for not making this a bigger issue. I’m ashamed for them for protecting their seats as apposed to protecting our kids.
Capn,
Ask a Dem if it is OK for a mother to kill her child. Think you can find one? I think you will only find one that plays word games with Right to Choose or some other miserable excuse.
Capn: Funny. If Bush hasn’t done anything about it then why were the pro-aborts crying the blues when Roberts and Alito were appointed to the Supreme Court? And when Kline requests medical records from abortion providers, why is it,”he has a vendetta against abortion providers and is just pandering to his base”?
Please, pick one line of logic and follow it.
How about protecting the “post-natals,” things like universal health care for children?
Damn right.
If you and your candidates really believe that abortion is nothing short of “killing kids,” then they are moral cowards for not forcing this to a vote on the floor of Congress every chance they get.
They aren’t going to do that, because the America people resoundingly want to keep abortion safe and legal.
Outie?
GOTCHA
You JUST admitted that it is not babies you are worried about at all. YOU just disapprove of sex.
Outlander–
The pro-choice people are acting according to their beliefs.
They know Alito and Roberts’ “stance” and they disagree with it.
But the real question is why don’t Alito and Roberts ACT on their stance?
Simply “believing in something” and “mouthing the right words” is enough for you people.
You aren’t seriously trying to stop abortion. It’s just your wedge issue you can trot out every election.
Good point Roo.
Outie? I trust you and our newest sex restrictor are in favor of repealing welfare regform?
Capn,so how do you feel about abortion?
I call abortion what it is, killing a defensless child. I don’t hide behind a “Choice” or a “Woman’s body”. Unless she was raped, then it was her “Choice” to get pregnant.
I don’t agree with the majority of the public I guess. I guess the repubs are dealing politics instead of morality.
JR: Uh.. where? You are deluded.
You must not be getting any.
But you still support the hypocrite party . . . so what’s that make you?
Capn,It makes me me. I do support the Republican Party. I share a lot of the same beliefs as they do. I do not go 100% on everything they have done.I hope no one would follow any party so blindly that they supported everything said party did/didn’t do.Did the republicans do much with abortion? No, but they are above board with their standpoint. Abortion is killing kids and is wrong.It seems the dems like to play word games about choice, woman’s body, etc. I’d like to see a dem holding up a picture of a “mother” having a partial birth abortion and say “Yup, this is what I want to protect.”
I’d rather be able to hold that picture than holding a bloody coathanger. Sorry, some images are not meant for civil discourse.
Paul, er, umm.. Sol.”I guess the repubs are dealing politics instead of morality.”
Yes they are playing to base emotions instead of logic and morality.If they are REALLY concerned, and truly believe that blastocysts are babies, then why would they continue to allow fertility clinics to create thousands of “babies” only to dispose of them later as excess stock?
Tracy
Not up to speed on this. I have been looking mainly at the outcome of the research and it has shown that adult stem cells are more productive, less provocative, and are in treatments TODAY.
I guess I don’t understand why people would pursue a potentially ethical dilemma on an unproven science when an existing, non-provocative science already exists and is productive.
Outie? You said,
“JR: So you sent from protesting the killing of babies, to promoting abortion’s casual use as a remedy for whorin’ around.”
If that is not admitting that you are “pro life” because you are anti-sex, I don’t know what does. It is not I am who is trying to restrict others sexual behavior Outie. Why are you? Not getting any and jealous.
OR to paraphrase George Carlin
“Have you noticed that most people who are against abortion are people you wouldn’t want to f… anyway?”
I say choice should go even further. ENOUGH with women getting knocked up to trap a guy. We can put a stop to that age old ill.
If a woman gets pregnant, give the guy a choice. If he offers to pay for an abortion he should be absolved of all child support.
JR,Are you 13? Asking an adult to have responsible sex is not “Anti-sex” or what ever ignorance you are suggesting.
Sol–
Nobody but the rapture right believes that adult stem cells are better for therapy than embryonic stem cells.
They start with the conclusion: “abortion bad” and they find the facts to support it.
Obviously, if the scientific community agreed with you, embryonic stem cell use would be a non-issue.
They don’t.
So voters, again we have a clear choice.
If you think sollie is brilliant, then by all means, vote for bonbon huy, toddly, and the whole hee haw gang.
But if you are a thinking person, and sollie makes you cringe, vote against his idols, bonbon, toddly, brenda, et al.
the choices couldnt be more clear.
Sollie? Or Raj. Sollie? or Garth.
You decide.
First hit on google
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/winter01/stem_cell.html
The question of stem cells is currently the dominant subject in the debate over biotechnology and human genetics: Should we use embryonic stem cells or adult stem cells for future medical therapies? Embryonic stem cells are taken from a developing embryo at the blastocyst stage, destroying the embryo, a developing human life. Adult stem cells, on the other hand, are found in all tissues of the growing human being and, according to latest reports, also have the potential to transform themselves into practically all other cell types, or revert to being stem cells with greater reproductive capacity. Embryonic stem cells have not yet been used for even one therapy, while adult stem cells have already been successfully used in numerous patients, including for cardiac infarction (death of some of the heart tissue).
Congratulations.
Now show me something in an academic journal.
A tale supposedly from Manhattan project. Do we use the uranium bomb (gun design), or do we use the plutonium (spherical implosion design)? Use both. How can the HEU be produced, by EM cyclotron, or gaseous diffusion? Use both.
The question about adult vs. embryonic stem cell research can also be cast in similar terms. Embryonic research holds more promise, but indeed harder because the cell differentiation mechanism is yet to be fully understood. It is also hindered by the political climate.
I showed you mine first. Show me where embryonic is beter than adult.
Neither embrionic not adult stem-cell is a mature technology. Both lines of research should be followed.
Sol, to speed this up and get to the bottom of the debate,I believe that there is NO ethical dilemma here.As I pointed out, they are not interested in stopping the fertility clinics, which is just not following their own logic.The ethical dilemma has been fabricated to appeal to peoples most base emotions, and therefore manipulate the uneducated voters.Research = murder.Throwing away excess stock = ?????
Their reasoning is flawed and disengenous, at best.
No point in rehashing it.
Let’s just get right down the the bottom of this issue.
People are going to have sex that you do not approve of. You cannot stop them. Stopping them will NOT improve your sex life.
Abortion is going to continue to occurr. Even if you could outlaw it and make it unsafe it is going to happen. You cannot compel a woman to gestate and you cannot force her to be a parent.
Using a fight against embryonic stem cell research as a toe hold towards banning abortion is intellectually dishonest. IF you are against embryonic stem cell research, you MUST also be against invitro fertilization and fertility clinics. Why are you not protesting THOSE clinics? What is practiced at those clinics is legal. Why are you not attempting to outlaw them? Hypocrisy?
If you are concerned with the welfare of the unborn, you must welcome welfare for the born. Yet many in the “pro_life” crowd are against welfare in any form for the born. Again, hypocrisy.
IMHO, the only ethics problems exist with the fundies who are attempting to block research funding but now fertility clinics.These are the same wingers who trotted out poor Terry Schiavo in a midnight “emergency session”,when they had never even met Terry Schiavo.Political pandering.Immoral and phony.
Sol, how many of those kids have YOU adopted?
“If a woman gets pregnant, give the guy a choice. If he offers to pay for an abortion he should be absolved of all child support.”
The above burst of genius courtesy of JR. Truly disgusting JR.
Yeah, sure, society wants to encourage more of the rap culture crap. More demeaning treatment of women. “Gettin’ with the HOs”. Then if they get pregnant, the “man” can offer to pay for having the baby killed. TO AVOID RESPONSIBILITY. And if she says no, well then that’s on her. The “man” is off the hook for his pathetic, immature, irresponsible behavior.
Grow up.
RD,The waiting list for newborns is measured in years. I have two sons. don’t need anymore.Were you insinuating that the children not killed in abortion would be an instant burden on society?
A) Tell that to the folks waiting in line to adopt
B) Make the parents responsible for their actions.
The biggest problem I have with abortion is the lack of responsibility. It gives irresponsible breeding age idiots an out for their actions.
If you are going to have sex, be responsible. If not for your own life (remember AIDS?) then for the life of the child you may create.
Outie? Do you call the age old act of a woman getting knocked up to trap a guy “responsible behavior”? My comment stands. Outie you and Sol should try masturbation or girlie books. You might find it alot more personally satisfying than telling other people how to live.. Or maybe not. You all having a direct line to God and all.
“If you are going to have sex, be responsible. If not for your own life (remember AIDS?) then for the life of the child you may create.”
I agree. But what happens when birth control fails? Condoms break.
” I have two sons. don’t need anymore.”
Ah, but you could’ve adopted at least one and had one of your own.
See, it just doesn’t wash. More and more people are going outside of the U.S. to adopt, even though there are thousands here in this country that are available. Why? Because of the waiting time for paperwork to be complete? You’d rather not have potential adoptive parents checked out? Start early.
“The biggest problem I have with abortion is the lack of responsibility. It gives irresponsible breeding age idiots an out for their actions.
“If you are going to have sex, be responsible. If not for your own life (remember AIDS?) then for the life of the child you may create.”
So, let me get this right, you are in favor of punishing people who can’t, or won’t be, responsible for their own lives, by making them bear and raise unwanted children? NOW THAT sounds real pro-child to me…
My Question of the day: Now that Kline has had these clinic records for the past week, will he make announcement of arrests at the clinics in question on 1) Friday, or 2) Monday?
It might lose some steam over the weekend if he does it on Friday, but Monday may not be soon enough. Some political decisions are just really difficult…
Steven,”making them bear and raise unwanted children”
I wrote that where?
RD,Most of the couples adopting can not have children on their own. I can and did. That makes me bad how?
You just can’t defend killing kids. You can try to divert the truth all you want, but a fact is a fact. Killing kids isn’t right.
Let me see you write that. Write that you support sucking out the brain of a birthing child. Nothing wrapped around it. Just those words.
And, any bets on whether these charges will withstand even the most cursory investigation? Meaning, I am betting these charges will be pretty much “made up”.
Abortions are legal, so let’s get back on topic.
“But Kline assures us, “women and children are not and never will be under investigation, only abortion doctors, confirming doctors and rapists are under investigation.”
Would someone please explain to me how rapists will be under investigation? Will they question the female who was raped? Will she be forced to name or identify in some way who her rapist was? If she doesn’t, what will happen to her? If she didn’t report the rape, will she be arrested and forced to give a name (if known) or description or what?
Just who is looking out for women in this issue?
“The biggest problem I have with abortion is the lack of responsibility. It gives irresponsible breeding age idiots an out for their actions.”
Of course you did not say it directly, but isn’t the logical extension of not giving someone “an out” amount to holding them responsible, Repub speak for “punishing them with natural consequences”?
If this is not what you think, please outline your suggestions on this problem.
Well, Sol, since very, very few abortions performed are partial-birth and those only for the life of the mother, I don’t owe you an answer.
I am not pro-abortion. The way I see it (and always will) is that the decision to end a pregnancy is between a woman, her doctor, and her creator, if she so believes in one. She, like a woman who chooses to relinquish a child, will carry that choice throughout her life, just as a woman who chooses to give birth to and keep a child.
It’s not my decision. It especially isn’t yours, since no one will ever force you to become pregnant, carry that fetus to full term and give birth.
The key to sollie’s statement?
“The waiting list for newborns”
Oh yeah, the elitists like sollie only want the cute, white, little newborns.
Adopt a child of color? Beneath them. Adopt an older child who was unwanted? Adopt a handicapped child? Beneath them.
Their concern for children is waaaaaaaay trumped by their concern for randall terry and operation rescue.
Ideology ALWAYS trumps children’s welfare in sollie’s world.
“It’s not my decision. It especially isn’t yours, since no one will ever force you to become pregnant, carry that fetus to full term and give birth.”
but, but, but, but, RD?
Sollie is a man. It is his christian duty to rule over us feeble minded women.
How could we survive if mysogynists like sollie didnt tell us what was right and wrong? Didnt make our decisions for us?
Why…. women might even get the vote someday in sollie’s world.
Better to nip that female uppityness in the bud.
So sayeth sollie, kay o’connor, and her little dog too, bonbon HUY!
The choice for voters couldnt be more clear…..
Steven,You bought the ticket, you ride the bus. Keep the child, put it up for adoption. You created it, you take care of it.
Yes the woman has to carry the child. And the “father” is responsible financially. So if it takes two people to make a baby, why does only one get to decide?
Repub speak? No, it is my opinion. It is amazing how anone with a voice in this blog is instantly labeled. Are you all Democratic sheep? You will follow your party to the end? Every decision? That’s a dang shame. Y’all almost came off as people with intelligent minds that thought for themselves.
I do lean (probably pretty hard) to the right. If you choose to overlook the fact that I am also a PERSON, I feel for you.
I see none of the right wingers want to respond to my earlier question:
So Kline just got therecords. These are the samerecords we’ve been hearingfor months that he alreadyhas and how they have lead tocases being filed here and inother states right? Any ofyou right wingers want totell me how Kline was able toget charges filed based onrecords he didn’t have?
Instead, all just turn the thread into a rant against abotion in general and ignore the basis of the issue here.
ksfarmgrrldo you have an original thought in that pretty head of yours or do you just regurgitate names?
“Are you all Democratic sheep? You will follow your party to the end? Every decision? That’s a dang shame. Y’all almost came off as people with intelligent minds that thought for themselves.”
ROFLMQAO!!!!!!!!!!hee hee hee hee
hehehehehehehehhehehehehehhehehehehhoohoohoohoohhoo haahaahaahahahahah
Remember KKKarl’s first rule of winning.
Whatever you are, pin it on the other side.
Uh, sollie, I dont think we are the lemmings here.
Read my responses to freeper demforshit. Then tell me who is more sheeple.
You seem to toe that party line better than I…..
Yawwwwn. Streeeetch. Sigh.
I think I will have breakfast. I’ll start by muching on a few babies, followed by some toasted fetuses.
And if Tracy is kind, maybe he will join me in munching on some farted lighting bolts?
As he says, breakfast is the most important meal of the day.
I know that is what you really believe about all of us sollie.
Just thought I’d say it for you.
So Sollie,Newborns? Must be a pink perfect infant, or you won’t adopt? What about the tens of thousands of kids in the foster care system that would give anything for decent parents, but will simply age out of the system?As long as they are there, you don’t have a moral leg to stand on regarding abortion!
ksfarmgrrl
I am a Christian and proud of it. Want to bash me for it, have a ball. I believe in God and family above all else. You believe in…
The choices for voters couldnt be more clear….
A vote for todd is a vote for sollie.
A vote for bonnie “votes for sale” huy is a vote for sollie.
Have a nice day.
Jed,Good point. I”m actually on a list to be a foster parent. As a mater of fact, I’ve requested a child 8 years or older.
Big eye roll.
Here comes the “persecuted christian majority” meme.
Care for a little cheese with that whine sollie?
ksfarmgrrl
A vote for … is a vote for … Do you have that on and endless loop or what?
ksfarmgrrl
Stating that I am a Christian is whining? Wow.
Jed,have you adopted or fostered? Do you have kids?
No sollie.
(patiently explaining here)
Saying you are a christion isnt whining.
This is whining:
“Want to bash me for it, have a ball.”
I do like to play with the christianISTS here, like a cat plays with a dying mouse, but I dont think I did it here. I’ll scroll up and look.
You must be an old poster to trot out that line……
Would I adopt or foster every parentless kid in the world? Damn straight. Not realistic, but I’ll help as many as I can. Can any of you say that? Will any of you DO that?
Being a child and feeling unwanted? What could be worse than that? Besides the obvious, being dead.
hay seed,This is the comment I replied to:
It is his christian duty to rule over us feeble minded women.
ksfarmgrrl
Do you believe in anything aside from the democratic party?
We GET it Sol (or whatever nic you used to be)
To you, a baby is a punishment. It is an 18 year sentence for sex you disapprove of.
What a wonderful and promising life such a child will have!
But I’ll waste no more time here. Abortion is going to continue to happen. Deal with it. Do your best to make ours a SOCIETY that welcomes and cares for every child. Do that and you “pro-lifers” MIGHT start to come off as something more than hypocrite prudes.
Hay seed,”I know that is what you really believe about all of us sollie.
Just thought I’d say it for you.”
I don’t play games like that. I ask questions of people, not just party lines. Sorry you can’t grasp that.
This is what always happens in the abortion debate.
It always comes back to a re-hash of arguments made since 1973. Since the moment of viable human life can never be determined to everyone’s satisfaction, the issue can never be resolved.
That’s why I cut to the chase. Forget ideology. Let’s look at policy.
Why do pro-lifers support candidates (Bush, Huy, Kline) who SAY they are anti-abortion but really do nothing about it?
Hint–it’s similar to the same fantasy that simply SUPPORTING Bush in Iraq will make success happen.
In other words, it’s not what you do, it’s what you THINK.
Kerry is bad because of what he THINKS. Bush is good because even though he’s killed thousands of Iraqis and Americans in a futile war to stop a pre-emptive strike with WMD’s, he BELIEVES in the right things.
Oh, this must be the offending comment.
“Sollie is a man. It is his christian duty to rule over us feeble minded women.”
And the bashing part of that is what?
Just looks like the truth to me.
You do belive men have dominion over women, no?
I mean, since we have no thoughts in our “pretty little heads”….
Please enlighten us further oh wise one. I hear the votes changing now.
Meanwhile, I’m a toatin’ them fetuses. Mmmmmmmmmmm……..
Junior, you really are 13 aren’t you?
Sex I disapprove of. OK, for like the 50th time, I am speaking of irresponsible sex. Do you understand that? Do you need any help with the big words?
Should someone be held accountable for their actions or just swing by the clinic and end a life. I think they should be held accountable. Do they have to keep the child, of course not. But you should not be allowed to kill for being irresponsible.
Do any of you in here, you as human beings and not just democrats, believe that killing a fetus because you were irresponsible is OK?
Agreed capn.
Like I said before, ideology trumps all with the wingnut crowd.
No sollie, you just play nic switching and trolling games……
Sigh. For the fiftieth time…
I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT!!!!!!!!!
“Do any of you in here, you as human beings and not just democrats, believe that killing a fetus because you were irresponsible is OK?”
Sollie, do you have ANY idea why all we do is make fun of you? Why NO ONE will take that stupid bait?
Talk about being stuck on stupid….
my fetuses are burning. Gotta go!
ksfarmgrrl
I’m not here to sway votes. I’m here to have discussions with people. I have a differing viewpoint than most of the bloggers. Makes for good conversations. Until you run into someone like you who seems to really have nothing to say but slander.
You do belive men have dominion over women? Of course not. So where is the truth there? Who are you to judge and label me?
Some observations …
Abortion went down when Bill Clinton was president.
Abortion has gone back up slightly since Bush has been in office.
Bonnie, etc etc etc, have been in office in KS for years. Abortion is still legal here.
Perhaps, just perhaps …
There is a better way to at least decrease the incidence of abortion than all the yelling and screaming …
Why NO ONE will take that stupid bait?
because it is easier to stand behind “Woman’s choice” that to talk about what is really happening.
But hmmmm…..
without the yelling, screaming, waving the bloody shirts, er, bloody pictures, the phelps like protests….
How would the republicans energize their base?
Oh and sollie, coming to the blog with your eyes wide shut and your mind tightly closed does not foster discusssion.
It just makes you a fun, but pathetic, mouse to play with.
Sorry, I shouldnt type with my mouth full of breakfast….
You know, setting ourselves up as God isn’t good either. We do so when we say, “that kid will be unwanted, he has no chance for a good life” and then go along with “termination” on that basis. Being “pro-child” as one poster put it earlier.
How dare we think we have the wisdom to discern what life is worth living? Especially in this great country. Our “poverty level” would be a high standard of living a lot of places. Using that piss poor logic, no one should ever be born in a lot of places.
So go ahead and continue with your other lines of logic to justify abortion. But don’t tell me you have the capacity to judge what life is worth living.
Actually I am 41 and a single dad.
See “sol”? Folks like you are exactly why I abandoned the “pro-life” cause. You are not pro life at all. You just want to be the morality police. Your compassion for life isn’t any deeper than your agenda to tell other people how to live.
Abortion is going to continue. It will not be significantly curtailed.
No sollie, you just play nic switching and trolling games
I went under Paul yesterday and was possibly mistaken as someone else. I go by SolDevVB, my email addy and you are upset by that. That is playing games?
Sollie, you wanna talk about what is really happening?
100 AMERICANS DIED IN IRAQ LAST MONTH
ABORTIONS WENT UP UNDER THIS PREZNIT’S LEADERSHIP
THE CONSTITUTION IS SHREDDED
HABEUS CORPUS IS NO LONGER AN AMERICAN VALUE
THE FEDERAL REPUBLICAN DEFICIT WILL NOW BE PAID BY YOUR GREAT GRANDCHILDREN
BONNIE HUY SELLS HER VOTES TO GAMBLING INTERESTS
SEBELIUS WILL CONTINUE HER UNCONTESTED REIGN AS QUEEN
WATER POLICY IN THIS STATE STILL FAVORS IRRIGATION AND CORN GROWERS
TODD WILL CONTINUE TO GET ON HIS KNEES FOR A LITTLE “PORK” THAT JUST NEVER SEEMS TO ARRIVE IN WICHITA
KANSAS WILL CONTINUE TO BE THE LAUGHINGSTOCK OF THE WORLD IF THE WINGNUTS REMAIN IN CONTROL
EDUCATION WILL DETERIORATE FURTHER IN KANSAS
Ya buddy. Forget this straw man abortion. Let’s talk about what is really happening in this state!
I dont think that is really a discussion you wingnuts want to have.
People caint handle but so much truth….
Hayseed,
O..K… Standing by what I believe in is eyes wide shut. Standing by what you believe in is enlightenment. Outstanding commentary.
J R,We are not the supreme court, so of course nothing will change the law here today. Discussing it is a bad thing though? Asking you what you think is offensive?
I’m not Pro-life? I don’t want to fall under any label. I have my values and I stick by them. If someone convinces me that I am wrong, so be it and bully for him/her.
Look, I don’t know your background and don’t pretend to. Lets do a for-instance. I am sure you love your child. I don’t know what happened with Mom, but lets just suppose when she was pregnant, that she didn’t want the child. You wouldn’t have your child today.
Again, I don’t know you or pretend to. I use your child to make the impact personal.
AH ok you are the new Paul.
Switching your nic was in that case a good idea. You can thank me for suggesting it so you are not confused with Paul F Rosell. TRUST me you owe me one for that. Thank me by not calling my friend farmgrrl hayseed and refraining from trolling.
Your welcome
OK, Hayseed is out. I’m not Paulie. I am a Paul, and prefer to be called Paul, so is Paulie out too?
It was suggested I change my nic in a different blog. If that was you then thanx much.
I am a newbie to blogging, so what exactly is trolling?
My ‘yelling and screaming’ comment applies to both sides. It would be nice to see BOTH sides look for ways to reduce DEMAND for abortion. Matters like access to health care, better adoption services, better access to birth control, support for a birthing mother, etc etc etc.
hmmm
Outstanding. I agree whole heartedly. We need to let the kids know, yeah, sex is fun, but there are consequences if you are not safe about it. If we could get that band wagon started up, who could oppose it.
“I do lean (probably pretty hard) to the right. If you choose to overlook the fact that I am also a PERSON, I feel for you.”
I am not sure where this last part came from. Those on the right do have cognitive schemata that perceive persecution in the strangest places — maybe that’s it.
Steven,I’ll break it down for you. This blog instantly labels you as a democrat or republican for your views.a little more clear now?
SolDevVB,Trolling is using someone else’s nickname and posting usually stupid, insulting stuff. An example would be:
“We can lessen the demand for abortion by teaching the virtues of gay and oral sex in public schools”SolDevVB
I would look at that and scratch my head, thinking ‘that does sound like the guy we know’.
What does your nickname mean?
“…a little more clear now?”
Sure.
HAHAHA, the oral sex part, hmmm, I might post something like thatHAHAHHAHA
Solutions Developer Visual Basic
“Yes the woman has to carry the child. And the “father” is responsible financially. So if it takes two people to make a baby, why does only one get to decide?”
One gets to decide because she is the decider. No, wait a minute, that’s Bush.
The father is not always the one paying the bills. Not all fathers, whether in the case of non-fathership (abortion) or real fathership, support the child from conception on.
If you’re referring to single mothers who bear the responsibility of choosing to abort or not, they are carrying the burden, both emotionally and financially. If that wasn’t true, there’d be no such thing as dead-beat dads.
Fathers can and have stepped in when a mother has chosen to abort and have stopped the action. The fact is, most don’t. They’d rather not be saddled with a kid. But that’s okay, right?
And you still haven’t replied to my question about the failure of birth control?
The father is not always the one paying the bills. Not all fathers, whether in the case of non-fathership (abortion) or real fathership, support the child from conception on.I live in Michigan and the child support laws are very strictly enforced. Again, it comes down to this, when having sex, you have to account for the consequences. If a woman is sleeping with a male that is not man enough to own his responsibilities, then she should not take the risk. If a man chooses to sleep with a woman, then he needs to accept the consequences.
If you’re referring to single mothers who bear the responsibility of choosing to abort or not, they are carrying the burden, both emotionally and financially. If that wasn’t true, there’d be no such thing as dead-beat dads.Again it comes down to responsibility. If you can not care for the outcome of your action, do not participate in the action. Be responsible for what you do.
Fathers can and have stepped in when a mother has chosen to abort and have stopped the action. The fact is, most don’t. They’d rather not be saddled with a kid. But that’s okay, right?Is that right? That a father shirks his responsibility? Is that rhetoric? Look at past posts. When a father steps in to fight for the life of his child, there are usually all too many pro-choice folks there to support the “mother”
And you still haven’t replied to my question about the failure of birth control?Ah, but I have. Read above. Responsibility for your actions.
Paul F(alse) Rosell,
“Planned Parenthood was founded by a racist by the name of Margaret Sanger, who said all of the following;”
False. See ‘Published Statements that Distort or Misquote Margaret Sanger’ 1/2 way down page at,http://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/who-we-are/margaret-sanger-planned-parenthood-founder.htm
Paul, if Sanger was a “rascist” as you claim, why did Reverend Martin Luther King Jr praise her in a speech?http://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/who-we-are/the-reverend-martin-luther-king-jr.htm
Sanger was a devout Catholic, Rosell’s a “lapsed” Catholic.
Thank you Rosell… I’m learning a lot here, correcting your many lies and falsehoods.
Sol, I dropped you an email by clicking on your name here by your comments, you should be able to do the same.Cowardly trolls will always use an undeliverable address, where the regulars here use an address they actually use, whether under a pseudonym or not.The typekey here is a feature for someone who wants to always be able to verify the person who’s commenting.For Instance, were Phill Kline to pop in here and say a few off the wall things, he could prove or disprove that he were the actual commentator.
“I’m learning a lot here, correcting your many lies and falsehoods.”
Correcting Paul F.’s many lies is going to be a full time job. My question is, if you believe your lies, are they then lies?
I still want to know what Kline is going to do with the records where he finds that rape occurred.
Any ideas? Should I email and ask him? *grin*
Sollie,”Jed,have you adopted or fostered? Do you have kids?”Yes, raised three(two adopted), and currently have a granddaughter living here. Haven’t fostered.
Aw, I missed the party.
SolDevVB, I understand your frustration with the abortion argument. I think of a fetus as a living human being and I wish that all women would choose to carry to term.
I am frustrated with it because it usually hinges on emotionally driven terms, like “forced birthing” and “murdering babies”, and often has little to do with cogent arguments.
All the arguments that apply AFTER the kid is born aren’t really applicable, in my opinion. The woman doesn’t want to be a mother? She can put the kid up for adoption. It’ll be an increased burden on society? That’s not an excuse to kill; we’ll find a way to keep them fed and sheltered.
What I think the abortion argument hinges on is the pregnancy itself. Should the government force a woman to carry and bodily support another human being for 9 months, undergoing irreversible changes to her body and possible risking death?
See, I can’t say yes to that in good conscious. I think that a woman has a right to say “No, I do not wish to undergo pregnancy. I want this embryo/fetus/baby removed from me.” And by removal, the E/F/B dies, because it is physiologically dependent on her.
So I don’t see the goal of abortion to kill babies, I think the goal is to not be pregnant. If a woman refuses to continue a pregnancy, a fetus dies.
However, short of strapping women down and monitoring them for 9 months, I don’t see an alternative. And since the state of pregnancy is a unique to females, I don’t see how men can make the decision for them.
Just my $0.02.
So to pre-empt the inevitable shitstorm: Yes, I support the right of a woman to kill her baby, if the act of removing the baby from her womb is what kills it. I try not to fret over appearing like a monster anymore; language is a very powerful tool to manipulate people with.
I will say that I was daydreaming a few weeks ago, and thought about what would happen if science perfected an artificial womb. That way, no abortions would ever have to occur–the woman goes into the hospital and has the fetus removed. And then the fetus gets transplanted into the artificial (or perhaps infertile woman’s) womb, where it grows to term.
THEN I’d support the banning of abortion, I think.
Tara,Oh, brave new world!
There are several sure fire methods to lower abortion rates:
1) Spay any woman after her first abortion. Statistics state that most women that have an abortion have multiple abortion. You know using abortion as birth control.
2) Neuter any man having children by more than one woman. Guaranteed to lower abortion especially from the lower social classes.
3) Eliminate abortion providers by any means necessary.
Nothing like murderous “pro-lifers” to bring sunshine to your otherwise gloomy day.
You might be on to something there, Herr Avenger. I think that eugenics should make a comeback, because that Maggie Sanger was on to something!
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
Ian, people aren’t dogs (at least most of them aren’t).
Love Farmgirl’s responses (when I’m not on the receiving end!)
Poor ol’ SoldevVB didn’t see it coming.
Well, my problem with the pro-life stance is that it wants to make cancerous skin lesion go away by putting a band-aide on it.
Talk all you want about pro-life, but until you address the issue of poverty then you’re trotting this issue out to energize your base (kind of like using gay marriage as a lightning rod).
On 9/11 over 3000 people were killed in a horrible terrorist attack on the shores of America. But that day another 10 to 15 k children died of starvation in 3′rd world countries. The next day we were stunned and then got angry and another 10 to 15 k died of starvation.
In fact every day from that day til this one 10 to 15 k children have died of starvation in this world.
Do the numbers and tell me how much you care for life when the folk on the right have a full fledged undeclared war on the middle class for the sake of their free market and profits(read Thom Hartmann’s book Screwed).
The fact is that there is plenty of fully formed life here that we can fight for.
The numbers tell the tale. The economy went south (for the middle class) and poverty went up and guess what! You have more abortions.
Your pro life stance is not true. It’s an anti-abortion stance that doesn’t give a happy damned for the quality of the life it saves when it get’s here!
I cannot get with this.
True pro-life is anti-poverty starting here and promoting abroad . The band aid of saving a life by not letting a mother who cannot (and who in fact might not at all) care for the child abort it is anti-life because statistics say that the life you’re saving for the poor will likely be a troubled one (with more abortions on the horizon).
We cannot control what people do with their bodies(right or wrong, irresponsible sex and legal or illegal, abortion still happens), but we can control the economy and while poverty will probably always be with us, if we take it on, it can be reduced.
So here I go, back to my spiel on getting us back to the liberal, democratic policies on which the middle class we’re living was built by the greatest president this country has even known FDR. Progressive taxation, Social Security, anti-trust, Union support, etc…
If you want abortions down this is the only pro-life stance that will work.