White House spokesman Tony Snow ripped Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., for telling students at Pasadena City College that if they didn’t get a good education, they could “get stuck in Iraq.”
“Sen. Kerry not only owes an apology to those who are serving, but also to the families of those who’ve given their lives in this,” Snow said. “This is an absolute insult.”
Kerry responded: “I’m sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did. I’m not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium.”
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- JWink on Jail consultants straining patience
- Howserfan on Minority status in Senate; majority approval at home
- satatom on Open thread 11/22
- Monkeyhawk on Open thread 11/22
- Regular on Open thread 11/22
- Monkeyhawk on Minority status in Senate; majority approval at home
- Monkeyhawk on Open thread 11/22
- satatom on Minority status in Senate; majority approval at home
- Mrage on Health care reform would save state money
- BlueJay on Minority status in Senate; majority approval at home
437 Comments
First off, it was a misquote by Kerry. He was CLEARLY referring to the Bush administration.
This is so obviously just another perfect example of Bush and the right-wing machine trying to make something out of nothing, to hide their own dismal performance and to distract from the real issues at hand. This will get play in the media, the Repub candidates will make a stink (even as they distance themselves from Bush) and then in about one day this will be what it has been all along: a non-story trumped up by the right-wing and their willing tools, the media.
And no doubt there will be the standard wingers on this board trying to claim, yet again, that this will rally the base and propel them to victory. Unfortunately, this is the reality: the right-wing base already is mobilized, THEY ARE ALWAYS MOBILIZED. There is nothing the Republican Party could do to alienate these people – they would vote Republican even if it came out that Republicans were protecting gay pedophiles in Congress. The bottom line is that it is the independents who are against you and your leaders now too. And all the feigned-outrage-in-a-lame-attempt-to-motivate-wingnuts in the world is not going to alter their opinions on Iraq and Bush/GOP leadership on it, which is that these are unmitigated disasters.
Right-wingers: please cover up, your desperation is showing!
Also, here is Kerry’s retort to the smear campaign from the hate-machine…
“If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they’re crazy. This is the classic G.O.P. playbook. I’m sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did.
I’m not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox’s Parkinson’s disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq . It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have.
The people who owe our troops an apology are George W. Bush and Dick Cheney who misled America into war and have given us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals, killed and maimed our soldiers, and widened the terrorist threat instead of defeating it. These Republicans are afraid to debate veterans who live and breathe the concerns of our troops, not the empty slogans of an Administration that sent our brave troops to war without body armor.
Bottom line, these Republicans want to debate straw men because they’re afraid to debate real men. And this time it won’t work because we’re going to stay in their face with the truth and deny them even a sliver of light for their distortions. No Democrat will be bullied by an administration that has a cut and run policy in Afghanistan and a stand still and lose strategy in Iraq.”
BROWNLEE, you spinned that story and you know it! I would have given you a pass yesterday, but you should have known better today!
Cage match? Only if it includes mud wrestling in addition of mud slinging.
Viva V.E.R.D.I.
I don’t remember Kerry being this outspoken during his campaign. Too bad.
Okay, let’s try to see if it’s any better today…
“you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”
hmmm, no…how about…
“you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”
not quite…maybe if we say it in a southern accent…
“you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”
Just can’t seem to wash that ‘Hanoi’ twang out of there, it keeps coming back! You know what I’m talking about, those sons of Ghengis Khan baby killers from Vietnam as Mr. Kerry testified to in Congress.
Ol ‘Hanoi’ Kerry just can’t seem to stop hating on U.S. troops. Okay, one more time, let’s see if it’s cleaned up now…
“you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”
Nope, sorry…
JM wrote it four times and still doesn’t get it. Maybe it’s too far above him, but let’s try anyway, JM,”you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”
Nope, he still don’t get it. Must be that missing repuke dna keeping him from learning. It’s okay, JM, come over to the light and we will teach you how to be a good american. Of course there will be years of brainwashing to overcome, but there is a little hope.
Posted by: J M Walker | November 01, 2006 at 06:03 AM
“It’s okay, JM, come over to the light and we will teach you how to be a good american. Of course there will be years of brainwashing to overcome, but there is a little hope.”
No thanks, I’d rather not be associated with the party of the KKK.
Were it the first time Kerry had said something that could be considered a derogatory comment toward U.S. troops everyone would give him a pass. But when I think back to those lies he told 30 some years ago about Ghengis Khan and cutting off limbs and such, hmmmmm…I don’t feel a damn bit sorry for him if he did butcher a bad joke and end up with shit all over his face.
Oh Funny how people are trying to defend Kerry. Just admit it. He really screwed up and he’s on tape.
And the credibility of Phil Brownlee, the Eagle, and its editors sinks BELOW zero.
Phil??
PHIL!!!!
WHERE IS A THREAD ABOUT TOOD TIAHRT NOT DEBATING HIS DEMOCRATIC CHALLENGER GARTH MCGINN??????
WHERE is your justification for endorsing Tiahrt?
We have been asking for a MONTH! Are you going to wait unil after the election to give it to us? Will you EVER give it to us?
The Eagle is in the pocket of the GOP. ‘Bout ready to let ya take your blog and shove it. I already ditched my subscription. There are forums that are accountable to their posters and not a political party.
The Kerry thing is a non story.
I think it’s dispicable to drag up a bunch of quotes that Kerry has made his entire adult life defaming and criticizing the military just to make a point.
You only have to go back to last year when he accused the soldiers in Iraq of terrorizing women and children in the dead of night.
And this is the man you libs wanted to be president!
Hank
And the great JR chimes in with his latest political effort.
Another whine about Tiahrt.
Why don’t you give a us a reason to vote for Garth? What is his position on illegal imigration?
Do you actually believe he will do anything about it other that the democratic plan of amnesty and registering them to vote?Hank
If you don’t you get stuck in Iraq (understood) like George Bush. Wow that’s a mind boggler, no wonder the right doesn’t ‘get it’!
http://www.valedictoriansiniraq.com
He should have just said wow,that was in really poor taste.It wasn’t funny and I apologize.But NOOOOO….
Like I said yesterday,let’s throw him to the lions and move on.He’s no longer an asset to the dems.
JR
Go for it JR. See ya later ya quitter.
It seems like Kerry the war hero (he was in Nam you know) has cancelled all of his campaign appearances for today.
Propbably a move to prevent being emmbarrased by any more of his appearances being cancelled by the candidates he was scheduled to stump for this week.
Typical Dem, cut and run!
Hank
“The members of the United States military are plenty smart and they are plenty brave and the senator from Massachusetts owes them an apology,” Mr Bush said.(http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6105004.stm)
When can he start using proper English? Please, his usage of the word “plenty” is not quite proper. Maybe if he had invested more in something called education?
High on stage there on EGO and adrenaline, feeling like he’s on a roll and then oops the truth comes out like it does when we are high.
Here’s some truth Steven Fox.No adrenaline, just truth.
Remember ol’ Whatzhizname? You know, Jack Abramoff, the disgraced superlobbyist who confessed early this year to corrupt influence peddling in Washington.
When Abramoff’s lobbying scandal broke, scores of congress critters and White House officials rushed to distance themselves from their former buddy. One who became especially distant was Karl Rove. He declared that Abramoff was merely a “casual acquaintance” who was barely known by the Bushites. But – oops – Karl forgot that there was a paper trail between the lobbyist and the White House.
Following that trail, a Republican-controlled house committee has now revealed that the “casual acquaintance” and his lobbying team practically had an open-door pass to the Bushites, enjoying 485 direct contacts with the White House in Bush’s first three years, including 82 contacts with Rove.
These were hardly routine or perfunctory. For example, Rove received coveted tickets to the NCAA basketball tournament from Abramoff, sitting with Jack all evening in the owner’s skybox. Also, Karl had a regular table at Signatures, a posh Washington restaurant that Abramoff owned. In turn, records show that Karl and other White House officials did favors for Jack, including delivering several million dollars in federal aid to his lobbying clients.
And if you want coziness, Susan Ralston, who was Abramoff’s executive secretary, went through the White House’s revolving door in 2001 to become Rove’s top executive assistant. This month, when the committee’s report revealed that Ms. Ralston was a frequent conduit between Jack and Karl, she abruptly resigned her White House position, saying it was time to “pursue other opportunities.”
This is Jim Hightower saying… The Bushites are trying to make her the Fall Gal for their own sleazy ties to Abramoff – but the one who should be taking the fall is “Corrupt Karl” himself.
Dem or Rep, I think this Kerry thing should serve as a great example of how low and cut-throat our political process has become. It was a verbal gaff, a botched punchline, that created ALL of this. I am more disgraced by Sen. John McCain for using this against Kerry. Is there no REAL MEN in our Congress. McCain, I would think, would have been the first to phone Kerry for an explanation before coming out trying to shame him. Kerry screwed up. He sure as hell does not think all stupid people are in Iraq. Kerry was a rich elitist in his youth…AND HE SERVED.Tony Snow, George Bush, John McCain, shame on you for jumping on a man for making a speaking error.What’s worse-I have to believe the Democrats would be doing the same thing….
As for Kerry – he came out swinging and I think he sounds like a leader (finally).
“Fool me once…..uhh, duh,…foo……Won’t get fooled again” GWB
Where is realilty? All my life, people have understood that the Army is an employeer of last resort for kids that mess up. Does anybody know of a survey validating this understanding? If I’m correct, isn’t this flap yet another example of Bush getting it wrong and falsely pontificating?!
Who cares! It is just one man’s opinion. Plus, whoever said the thing about sending our boys to war without body armor. Guess what, there has not been a war where some go without body armor. It is war, people are going to die and get injured. Now if you agree with the war or not, that is your opinion. But don’t bring up not having body armor as the administration who sent them to war fault.
Further, everyone is giving Kerry crap about his qoute. I doubt many of any politician has a child in the service. Plus, if you did take a count, less republicans probably have a child in the service.
I am not defending Kerry, I think it was a bad statement. However, I am not attacking him. Because the beauty of this country is you can feel whatever way you want and think whatever way you want. Get over, live your life. If this qoute makes you not want to ever vote for Kerry. GOOD, it is your choice. But go back to debating about something important. Sometimes I hate the two party system in the US because everyone just wants to go about “He said, She said” instead of focus on things that help.
Heckler?
“Quitter”? You’ll have to explain that one.
Hey Price why don’t YOU share Todd Tiahrts successful efforts to address illegal immigration? I mean OTHER than pandering to the Kansas meat packers that hire those illegals.
Kerry muffed a joke. Big deal. No deal.
Difference between Kerry, Bush, Cheney, and McCain:
Kerry served and came home.Bush swerved.Cheney faked a heart attack.McCain served and got caught.
Are you guys freakin high? Has the liberalism totally cooked your brain? Listen to (or read) what the man said. It really makes no difference at all if he was poking at Bush or if he meant that everyone serving in the military is uneducated and ignorant. What matters is that is what the people heard. Grow a brain, set the record straight on what the message was, apologize for saying something so completely STUPID and move on. This country has had enough of the partisan crap. We need a uniter, not a “Kerry” who wants to sling mud with every other breath.
Paul, you ignorant slut.Kerry botched a line from his speech.No one with a logical mind truly believes Kerry meant what came out of his mouth. He botched the line.Paul – I would like to sit on and listen to your next public speech and take notes on any verbal errors you make.
Boy, if I was a Republican, ALL I would want to talk about is this Kerry blunder. And then I would turn around and say that the Dems don’t want to talk about what their candidates stand for.
It would be funny, if it wasn’t so pathetic.
More pathetic shit noted here, Steven:
The Bushites and their right-wing cohorts are losing it.
First, they lost Osama. Then they lost their focus on the war against terrorists by darting down the rabbit trail of Iraq. Then they lost Iraq to theocracy and civil war. Then they lost the support of the American people. So now they’ve lost their cool.
Not since Richard Nixon and Spiro Agnew have we heard such vitriolic, vituperative, venomous assaults on perceived presidential “enemies” as we’re now getting from Bush & Gang. White House PR flack Tony Snow, for example, screeched that they are some Democrats “who say we shouldn’t fight the terrorists,” that we shouldn’t even monitor, question, or detain al Qaeda.
Goodness gracious, Tony, who are these dastardly Democrats who say such treasonous things? Name them! Alas… Tony had no names.
Then, George W chimed in, wailing about Democrats in congress who voted against his illegal program of eavesdropping on the phone and email messages of millions of Americans. He claimed that “177 of the opposition party said, ‘You know, we don’t think we ought to be listening to the conversation of terrorists.’”
Really, George? Name these miserable members who oppose tracking terrorists. Alas… Bush’s press office could not name a single one.
Still, he kept on. At a fundraiser in Nevada, Bush regaled faithful partisans by declaring that Democrats “think the best way to protect the American people is – wait until we’re attacked again.” Gosh, George, share some names with us. But, alas… he could not single out anyone who said any such thing.
Next came Bush apologist Bill O’Reilly, declaring that the “secular-progressive movement” believes, like Osama bin Laden, that “America is fundamentally a bad place.” Hmmm, Bill… who says that? Alas, he can name no one.
This is Jim Hightower saying… Get a grip, Bushites. You’re losing it. Badly.
Thanks Tracy. I read yesterday that Bush is resorting to the “a vote for Dems is a vote for the terroists” line.
Also read that the Kansas GOP is having to order Kansas Republican candidates to appear on the stage with Bush should he come to support Ryun this weekend. In 2004 those candidates would have fallen all over themselves to be on that stage. This year W. is radioactive. Please keep campaigning on my dime W. This year it really is helping the country.
Kerry’s Freudian slip was on the mark. Middle to low income kids with aspirations to get to college through the military or who are not college bound but want a good career are the majority of kids who end up in Iraq.
Sure, you have Westpointers and a few other prestigious military schools sending officers over there, but the majority of kids are those with little or no education or those who are looking for a way to get one.
Not being college educated doesn’t make these kids stupid, but it does put them in the situation where the military is a better career than working on the line at a factory somewhere.
My mom told me I had to go to school so I wouldn’t have to “work in a factory” like her. She also told me not to join the military unless I was willing to kill or be killed. Good advice from mom and good advice from John Kerry.
Republicans are just trying to steer their sheeple away from their own scandals (which involve pedophilia and not stumbles in political rhetoric) and unfortunately, it will probably work.
Kerry should not apologize for his comments about the war because unlike our President, he actually fought in one and knows the reality and horrors of war.
Kerry’s Talking Points:
http://mccluer.name/kerry.jpg
Watching the libs try to defend Kerry’s remarks would be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic.He said it, then slams any critic who didn’t serve in the military.It’s the same lame ass argument we had here a few days ago. That is, if you haven’t been pregnant/diseased/homeless, etc then you have no standing.Libs = last refuge of scoundrals
JR
I’m talking about your incessant whining about the Beagle not responding to your desires and your threats to leave this shitty little blog.
I say go for it.
Jim G…. Ignorant slut? Wow, do you have sme sexual issues you need to work out?
You guys really take the cake. Don’t pick on Kerry for a verbal error, then come right back with a verbal flub from dubbya? Wow, are you for real? I guess it is like most liberal issues. It is oh so wrong for repubs to do it, but hey, it’s fine for me because I am a bleeding heart. Wow.
And bringing up the body armor issue? Heelloooo Kerry voted to go to war… no he didn’t…. well… yeah he did, but he didn’t mean it. So if the fool votes to send the troops, how can he be pissed that we’re there.
Cut and run in Afghanistan? Uhm… aren’t you bitching and screaming to do the same thing in Iraq. Should we wave the magic wand now? Kerry seems to have all the answers. So, uh, what is your answer for Iraq that isn’t cut and run, Mr. War Hero? Do y’all remember the http://www.swiftvets.com ? Remember why they popped up? To set the record straight. So why would someone so proud to have served continue to dish on the current forces. “I did, but… I didn’t… well I didn’t mean to…”
Look, Hilary is the one who is going to run. If she acts more like her husband (uniting, not dividing) then she stands a chance. This Kerry idiot? Put his ass under a rock until he can be voted out. The guy is a moron with his foot permanently dangling from his mouth.
Look, Kerry’s excuse that this was just a botched joke is either a transparent attempt to cover a mistake, or (if actually true) shows a colossal lack of insight on Kerry’s part. If he’s trying to make the parallel that Bush’s performance in college pre-destined him to “get stuck in Iraq,” he’s essentially admitting that he would be doing the EXACT same thing if he had won the election in 2004, because his performance in college was lower than Pres. Bush’s. So either way – bad joke, botched joke, or poor insight – it makes no sense for anyone to defend Kerry’s remarks. He’s a big boy. Let him take responsibility.
You guys are crazy. First it was a misquote, then he attacks the conseratives, then he says it was a joke. Did you ever think that the words coming out of his mouth mean what he said? Typical flip flopping. Kerry dosen’t have the character of a gnat.
Paul – “It doesn’t matter what he said, it only matters what (some) people heard.”
Well, it is difficult to influence what people choose to hear. I read his words, including the anti-Bush one-liners that precceded that comment. It was clear to anyone but the BushBots that his target was Bush, not his fellow soldiers. Had Bush paid attention in school he might have learned enough history to know that his little adventure would get us stuck in this quagmire.
Gee, you sound like another Paul I know …
Hey Heckler I won’t just bolt the scene. IF it comes to it I’ll bring down the whole shebang. I can’t leave just yet. YOU haven’t found a reason to post without me! Your two entries here being solely addressed on…..me.
This Kerry non story is wall to wall on all media. I don’t want to EVER hear again that the media is liberal.
Kerry muffed a bad joke. Anybody remember bush joking about not finding the weapons of mass destruction?
“Nope no weapons of mass destruction under here.” (phots of bush looking under a table cloth)
How many American troops has Kerry gotten killed?
Yeah, you know you’re right Ben, Bush did get us stuck in the quagmire. What a fool to send those troops to liberate oppressed people. Oh, wait, you know I would swear that there were a few Dems that felt like it was a good idea too. You know what, I’m pretty sure of that. Oh, but we can forget about that when finger pointing time comes around right? Of course we can….
To the right-wing shills–
I AGREE WITH YOU.
Yep, you read that right.
I agree that we shouldn’t think about what a man MEANS, we should just look at what he SAYS.
So, let’s continue this exercise in non-thinking with Bush–
“It’s in our country’s interests to find those who would do harm to us and get them out of harm’s way.” –George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005
“You work three jobs? Uniquely American, isn’t it? I mean, that is fantastic that you’re doing that.” –George W. Bush, to a divorced mother of three, Omaha, Nebraska, Feb. 4, 2005
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.” –George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004
“We need an energy bill that encourages consumption.” –George W. Bush, Trenton, N.J., Sept. 23, 2002
Oh my GOSH! IMPEACH THE TREASONOUS BASTARD!
How many troops has kerry killed. Well with his vote to go to war, I reckon that would make the tally…. Hmmm, just the same as Bush’s. that’s just current day, how many did he kill by supporting the Viet Cong? Hmmm….. that number might be a little higher. What was your question again?
I interpret Kerry’s statement as AAM. I have a son in the Army, not deployed, at least not yet. He needed some straightening up, i.e. some agency to impose discipline, help him lead an organized life, and also provide him with a good career path (physician assistant).
Millions of young people like him seek opportunities, and will valiantly defend our nation. The War in Iraq is NOT defending our nation. The War in Afghanistan SHOULD have been defending our interests, but the Bush Leaguers cut and ran, and now the Taliban is resurging, and opiium production is reportedly skyrocketing–and where is the heroin going to be shipped to?
In 2000, Bush said he wouldn’t embark on nation building. He said he would not exercise arrogance, but humility. He said he would be the education president. He said his life model was Jesus Christ. Rove (an agnostic) and co. gave Georgie Boy extremely convincing talking points. These encouraged a lot of people to vote for him (almost enough to win the election). But have we seen any humility in this man? How about arrogance. He “won” the election by portraying himself to be the EXACT OPPOSITE of WHAT HE REALLY WAS.
He’s basically a guy born with a silver spoon in his mouth who never had his own life dream, but tried to emulate his father’s footsteps, falling down at every step. His dad was a star baseball player at Yale. Son warmed the pine:wasn’t even a starter, much less a star. Dad was a WWII aviator. Son joined the Air National Guard, and who knows what happened there? Dad was a successful oil wildcatter. Son was an unsuccessful oil wildcatter. Dad was a light drinker. Son was a drunk. Dad raised taxes towards balancing the budget. Son cut taxes while raising federal expenditures massively and foisted a multitrillion dollar debt on Americans’ backs. Dad won a war in Iraq. Son lost a war in Iraq (and Afghanistan).
Uh I need to correct a quote from one of the minor posters.
“Libs=last refuge of scoundrels.”
No that is not correct.
The correct quote is: “Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels.”
Let’s try to get it right newbies.
How many troops has kerry killed. Well with his vote to go to war, I reckon that would make the tally…. Hmmm, just the same as Bush’s. that’s just current day, how many did he kill by supporting the Viet Cong? Hmmm….. that number might be a little higher. What was your question again?
Supporting the Cong?P-shah–What a crock of shit.Paul, why do you hate our vets?
Paul – I also fault those Dems who voted to give Bush the authority to do what he did. And the cherry-picked false intelligence (sic) Bush presented to the Congress and the UN.
Tracy, if you support the enemy you support the enemy. Did you not hear the crap he spoke during the 70’s? It is you right as an American to say what you wish. It is your responsibility as a human being to not bash troops in harm’s way that don’t even want to be there. Wait until they are safe at home, then all them baby killers all you want.
Hate vets? I AM a vet. The first Gulf War. I served with honor and pride just like our boys and girls are doing today. I would never begin to THINK of bashing the real troops. The ones who fight for America and refuse to dishonor there brethren.
Kerry did not vote to go to war in Iraq.
He voted to give the president the authority to go to war in Iraq.
He thought the president would use this authority as a stick to pressure Saddam Hussein into more compliance with US demands as Bush promised.
Instead, the Liar-in-Chief unilaterally sent in the troops.
It was stupid for Kerry to believe the Repukes, yes.
But that’s not the same thing as “voting for the war.”
jr-Libs and patriotism don’t belong in the same sentence.
“I would never begin to THINK of bashing the real troops.”
No?”I served with honor and pride just like our boys and girls are doing today.”
Boys and girls?
I think you just bashed the men and women who serve by portraying them as children?
CapnAmerica… Is that the current rhetoric Kerry is preaching? When is his next flop? I bet you if the country wasn’t doomed to civil war and we were out of there ole Kerry would break his own arm patting himself on the back for his vote.
It’s time that Americans started being responsible for their actions again. Did Iraq go sour? You betcha. GW has admitted to so much and is now looking for other courses of action. Did Kerry vote to begin a war (same thing as giving the president the authority, sorry to break it to you)? You betcha. Own it. Quit ducking it. Did Kerry say something really really stupid? You betcha. Own it, apologize, move on.
JR, I am old enough to be the parent of many of the troops deployed. Our troops are America’s sons and daughters. Does that register or are you still looking for a poke?
What was so bad about what Kerry said? It’s the truth. How many of our guys over there are college graduates? It’s the same as Vietnam, those that could afford it went to college and the rest went into the service or to Canada. It has nothing to do with being smart or stupid, it has to do with choices and economics.Just because someone is in college or has a degree doesn’t make them better or neccesarily smarter than anyone else, and anyone who has spent time on a college campus knows that.
I have searched online to see a transcript of Kerry’s remarks, but can’t find any. I tend to think Kerry meant what he said given his history, but if we could actually see what he was saying leading up to the infamous remark it should be obvious what he meant.
Anybody know where we could find this?
Wow ………. reading you pathetic, name-calling Dum’s errr, I mean Dem’s. Go ahead, make it right in your own minds. There is plenty of room in there.
Paul, kiss my hairy old ass,and don’t you EVER question my patriotism.I was around in the 70’s to know the truth.How old were you, DAD?
Tony Snow by rear-naked choke.
The Bushites and their right-wing cohorts are losing it.
First, they lost Osama. Then they lost their focus on the war against terrorists by darting down the rabbit trail of Iraq. Then they lost Iraq to theocracy and civil war. Then they lost the support of the American people. So now they’ve lost their cool.
Not since Richard Nixon and Spiro Agnew have we heard such vitriolic, vituperative, venomous assaults on perceived presidential “enemies” as we’re now getting from Bush & Gang. White House PR flack Tony Snow, for example, screeched that they are some Democrats “who say we shouldn’t fight the terrorists,” that we shouldn’t even monitor, question, or detain al Qaeda.
Goodness gracious, Tony, who are these dastardly Democrats who say such treasonous things? Name them! Alas… Tony had no names.
Then, George W chimed in, wailing about Democrats in congress who voted against his illegal program of eavesdropping on the phone and email messages of millions of Americans. He claimed that “177 of the opposition party said, ‘You know, we don’t think we ought to be listening to the conversation of terrorists.’”
Really, George? Name these miserable members who oppose tracking terrorists. Alas… Bush’s press office could not name a single one.
Still, he kept on. At a fundraiser in Nevada, Bush regaled faithful partisans by declaring that Democrats “think the best way to protect the American people is – wait until we’re attacked again.” Gosh, George, share some names with us. But, alas… he could not single out anyone who said any such thing.
Next came Bush apologist Bill O’Reilly, declaring that the “secular-progressive movement” believes, like Osama bin Laden, that “America is fundamentally a bad place.” Hmmm, Bill… who says that? Alas, he can name no one.
This is Jim Hightower saying… Get a grip, Bushites. You’re losing it. Badly
Mike… http://www.foxnews.comIt’s on the top left under the Kerry headline
Somebody find these names while you’re at it.Lying bastards.
“Really, George? Name these miserable members who oppose tracking terrorists. Alas… Bush’s press office could not name a single one.”
fux news? Ha.why don’t we just give you links to Air America?
Kerry… oh, sorry, Tracy…
Question your patriotism? Really. Do you feel your patriotism is in jeopardy? I don’t see anything I posted directed towards you having anything to do with your patriotism. Is there something you’d like to get off your chest?
Kiss your hairy old ass…How old am I…. Hey, Jim G has some of the same sexual issues as you. Maybe you two should talk.
Tracy, “fux” news… good one. But video is video. Can’t really get around that.
Did Bush apologize or even explain these remarks?
Was he asked to by vicious partisan attack dogs?
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.” –George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004
“We need an energy bill that encourages consumption.” –George W. Bush, Trenton, N.J., Sept. 23, 2002
Nah, we knew what he meant.
We’re not, you know, stu u u. . pid.
CapnAmerica…Good one. I support Bush, but I can’t say he is the most brilliant man in the world. Actually, I don’t think brilliant and Bush should be used in the same sentence in a positive fashion. Yeah, the man screws up his words quite often.
Paul – I watched the video – and the comments that preceeded the edited version. His comments were clearly directed toward the CiC who got us “stuck in Iraq.” Of course, I wouldn’t expect a BushBot like you to hear that part. Like you said, it doesn’t matter what he SAID; it only matters what you CHOSE TO HEAR.
CapnAmerica…But hey, back t the point. Did he apologize? No he didn’t. What was he supposed to apologize for? Dethroning a mass murdering dictator? Being involved in a conflict with a country that is destined for civil war?
Actually, the most promising solution is coming from the Bush camp. Divide the country into three sections, or states, or countries. Let each faction own its own land. Problem is how do you divide the oil.
Another dispicable repugnican attack:
Letter from Mike Stark
Richmond Times-Dispatch Oct 31, 2006
The following is a letter to NBC29 from Mike Stark, the man who was tackled for a comment he made at Senator Allen’s campaign stop in Charlottesville on Tuesday.My name is Mike Stark. I am a law student at the University of Virginia, a marine, and a citizen journalist. Earlier today at a public event, I was attempting to ask Senator Allen a question about his sealed divorce record and his arrest in the 1970s, both of which are in the public domain. His people assaulted me, put me in a headlock, and wrestled me to the ground. Video footage is available here, from an NBC affiliate.
I demand that Senator Allen fire the staffers who beat up a constituent attempting to use his constitutional right to petition his government. I also want to know why Senator Allen would want his staffers to assault someone asking questions about matters of public record in the heat of a political campaign. Why are his divorce records sealed? Why was he arrested in the 1970s? And why did his campaign batter me when I asked him about these questions.
George Allen defends his support of the Iraq war by saying that our troops are defending the ideals America stands for. Indeed, he says our troops are defending our very freedom. What kind of country is it when a Senator’s constituent is assaulted for asking difficult and uncomfortable questions? What freedoms do we have left? Maybe we need to bring the troops home so that they can fight for freedom at George Allen’s campaign events. Demanding accountability should not be an offense worthy of assault.
I will be pressing charges against George Allen and his surrogates later today. George Allen, at any time, could have stopped the fray. All he had to do was say, “This is not how my campaign is run. Take your hands off that man.” He could have ignored my questions. Instead he and his thugs chose violence. I spent four years in the Marine Corps. I’ll be damned if I’ll let my country be taken from me by thugs that are afraid of taking responsibility for themselves.
It just isn’t the America I know and love. Somebody needs to take a stand against those that would bully and intimidate their fellow citizens. That stand begins right here, right now.
W. Michael Stark
JR
I’ll find a way to get by without you.
Do y’all remember Howard Dean? He was a shoe in. Would have beaten the snot out of Bush. Remember why he got bounced out of the race?
And now ya’ wanna question sexuality?Man that’s lamer than lame.Do you have anything good to say about what your party has done?What is it you’re supporting?Anything worth talking about, or just more lies and innuendo?You’re pathetic fella.
Mary, Mary, Mary,
What Kerry was implying with his remarks to a bunch of college students was that the troop were stupid and that’s why they are stuck in Iraq.
There is a very big difference between the troops in Nam and Iraq. Every man in Iraq volunteered to be in the service. Many have volunteered to do more than one tour of duty in Iraq.
No body has to run to Canada to avoid duty in Iraq. The troops that are in Iraq are the brightest and the smartest men and women that any country in history has had in their military.
For Kerry to imply they are stupid, (and make no mistake, that is the meaning of his words) is dispicable. Futhermore, it is typical of the liberal, democrat mind set.
You can’t get in the service unless you have a high school education or a GED. The Marines will turn you down if you have demostrated to be unreliable with too many traffic tickets or any history of drug abuse.
The average twenty year old Marine is tougher, more compassionate and yes… smarter than the average twenty year old college student. He is in Iraq because unlike a bunch of panty-waste-head-in-the-sand-cut-and-run-liberals they know it’s the right thing to do.
Now dear, if you have time why don’t you and the rest of the liberals tell us poor ol’ right wing nitwits what Kerry the war hero meant when he accused our brave men and women serving in Iraq of terrorizing Iraqi women and children ‘in the dead of night’!
Hank
No, the problem is the cities.
The major cities are totally mixed, esp. Baghdad.
I never had a problem with knocking off Saddam Hussein.
The problem is what do with the country once you do that.
It’s not easy to make the case that with 600,000 dead Iraqis since the occupation, that they’re better off now than they were.
Not only that but anyone who knew the politics of Iraq could see this coming up Fifth avenue. It’s what I said would happen months before the invasion, and I’m just an ordinary shmo in Wichita, Kansas that takes the time to inform himself.
Bush Co. had no plan for governing Iraq. They had no plan because they didn’t care.
They wanted control of Iraq’s massive oil deposits. They got it.
Nothing else really matters to them.
Is that your “platform”?Howard Dean sucks!!Bill Clinton, Bill Clinton!!Quite a platform fella.
Hank: “What Kerry was implying with his remarks to a bunch of college students was that the troop were stupid and that’s why they are stuck in Iraq.”
No, Hank, that is what you interpreted, not what Kerry said. What he said and what he implied is that BUSH was stupid and THAT is why we are stuck in Iraq. And on thet Kerry is 100% correct.
Tracy,What “my” party has done. Can’t claim the party, but we can discuss what the Republicans have done. Have you heard about the economy lately? I believe the numbers are slightly higher than in the Clinton era. Difference is, the stock market isn’t in an artificial bubble waiting to pop and CFO’s are being held accountable for their accounting (hahahahah. Get it?).
I know that Russia delivered its first oil tanker to Houston. I believe that would limit our dependency on Arab and Venezuelan oil. I also know that America is helping to develop Russia as an oil distributor.
I know that alternative fuel sources are being pursued more now than at any time in the past. I know that the President has signed into law that car manufactures have to develop cars that are E-85 compliant.
I think that the deficit has been cut by more than promised in a shorter amount of time than promised all while supporting a two front war.
Yeah, if I had to claim a party, I guess it would be one that has done this much for America.
Hank–
I really expect something better from you than this:
“For Kerry to imply they are stupid, (and make no mistake, that is the meaning of his words) is despicable. Futhermore, it is typical of the liberal, democrat mind set.”
That isn’t the meaning of his words. He was talking about Bush’s policies–that was the context of the comment.
Language is ambiguous. Take the sentence “flying planes can be dangerous.” There’s no way to tell if it means “when one flies a plane, it can be dangerous” or “planes flying overhead can be dangerous.”
A single phrase only has meaning relative to all the other words in its context.
That’s why you have to look at its context.
Tracy,What “my” party has done. Can’t claim the party, but we can discuss what the Republicans have done. Have you heard about the economy lately? I believe the numbers are slightly higher than in the Clinton era. Difference is, the stock market isn’t in an artificial bubble waiting to pop and CFO’s are being held accountable for their accounting (hahahahah. Get it?).
I know that Russia delivered its first oil tanker to Houston. I believe that would limit our dependency on Arab and Venezuelan oil. I also know that America is helping to develop Russia as an oil distributor.
I know that alternative fuel sources are being pursued more now than at any time in the past. I know that the President has signed into law that car manufactures have to develop cars that are E-85 compliant.
I think that the deficit has been cut by more than promised in a shorter amount of time than promised all while supporting a two front war.
Yeah, if I had to claim a party, I guess it would be one that has done this much for America.
All, sorry for the double post. My browser had a hic-up
Paul,
Paullie
Is that you? Come home son, stop getting beat up by the mean boys and girls on the blog.
OK…Rather Kerry meant to say all stupid people will end up in Iraq or a slam to the Bush Administration it came out all wrong and he should apologize for it. I’m sure Republicans are spinning it but he said what he said rather it was meant to sound that way or not. I guess I’m the type of person that if something like that came out of my mouth I would immediately be apologizing. I guess politicians are above all others and apologies are not necessary (republicans or democrats)
The stink of desperation and denial rising from Hank Price, Heckler, and JM has given way to something more familiar: bloodlust. How do Wingnuts get their groove back? By lying about what someone said. Y’all need to get a new trick.
Of course, it matters not at all that what Kerry said, restored to its fullest context, was that “if you study hard” (YOU meaning, of course, George Bush, who has repeatedly pointed out that being President is “hard…it’s really, hard”) “you (meaning George Bush) do your (meaning George Bush) homework and you (meaning George Bush) make an effort to be smart, you (meaning George Bush) can do well. And if you (meaning George Bush) don’t, you (meaning George Bush) get stuck in Iraq.” As George Bush, in fact, is…stuck in Iraq. “Cut and stay,” I like to call it.
Seeing as how this White House has lied about everything else that’s come down the pike over the last six years, why not twist Kerry’s words into a slander on American armed services personnel? What else has the Administration got? Surely not their record, which doesn’t exhibit much of what you might call, um, “leadership,” “foresight,” or even, for that matter, “competence.”
But let’s get real here, shall we? The Bush Administration has done a series of stupid and dishonest things, gotten hundred of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed, along with thousands of American troops killed and injured, and has spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a war that didn’t need to be fought.
And instead, Rove has us arguing that the words of the defeated Democratic Presidential candidate matter more than the failed policies of the sitting President.
Get real, people. This mid-term election isn’t a referendum on whether John Kerry can make his point understood in a national media that’s set up to attack Democrats and coddle Republicans.
It is a referendum on the failure of the Bush “Administration,” and the disaster that Republican hegemony has been for America.
capn,
Kerry is like a dose of the clap…he’s the gift that keeps on giving!
As the mid term elections draw near Murtha at least has the good sense not to call our Marines murderers before even an investigation, let alone charges are brought. Turbin Durbin at least has the good sense not to call our brave troops at Gitmo nazis.
But good ol’ faithful Kerry, right on time to help the republican base remember what’s at stake, can be counted on to remind us exactly what the libs think of our men and women in the military!
Why don’t you put his words in the context of a man that has a 35 year history of defaming our troops. That will help you to better realize his contempt for America and its military.
Hank
Outstanding LA. Perfectly said. He doesn’t need to apologize for what he said. But how about he apologize to the troops and the troop’s family for – possibly – being misunderstood?
“I apologize for the fact that the Bush spinmeisters have been able to twist my words and make them into an attack on our brave troops rather than what they were: a statement of fact about our incompetant CiC”
The Kerry statement slamming our troops could have gone away if Kerry would have been smarter. Thankfully, he’s not that smart and it is growing legs. Even CNN is covering it more. Watching you people defend this is good for the good guys. Keep it up.
Hank Price,
Ah, the mythic, manichean Pricean world view: liberals are evil, conservatives are good. Priceless. And of course, Hank Price is right: we liberals eat babies while holding meetings in which we discuss how much we hate the military. Yes sir.
What’s priceless, of course, is that while Hank Price styles himself a noble sort of person (”gentle people”), when it comes to his regard for his enemies, he’s a petty, slavish hater. The bigger his enemy, the smaller Hank gets. Look at how he’s responded to John Kerry.
A question, Hank Price: did American service personnnel massacre Vietnamese civilians at My Lai? And was this something that should have been publicized, and for which the guilty parties should have been punished?
The Bush spinmeisters did it. Yup. Why does every mistake someone makes get pointed at someone else? Can ANYONE in the public eye own a freakin screw up? “Hey, it was me. Yup. I screwed up.” Wouldn’t that be refreshing?
“John Kerry meeting with Comrade Do Muoi, General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam, in Vietnam, July 15-18, 1993. Photo taken in the War Remnants Museum (formerly the “War Crimes Museum”) in Saigon in May 2004.” John Kerry is a hero to the North Vietnamese Communists.
On November 15, 1988, at a businessmen’s breakfast in East Lynn, Massachusetts, Kerry made a joke about President-elect George H.W. Bush and his running mate, saying “if Bush is shot, the Secret Service has orders to shoot Dan Quayle.”
“Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the–of–the historical customs, religious customs.” Sound Familiar…Repeat of Kerry calling U.S. Military Members in Vietnam Baby Killers?
“you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”
botched joke eh, I don’t think so. Kerry keeps on keeping on with his stance and remarks.
Paul,
Kerry has nothing to apologize for. Read the full text of his remarks.
I do love the phony, histrionic right-wing outrage. Would that you had the character to honest to direct it where it belongs: at the Bush “Adminstration.”
As it stands, judging by your behavior, I just have to ask: have y’all been taking lessons from Lynne Cheney?
Would the Democrats be asking for an apology if it had been Bush that made that same statement? You bet. Or, No. You’d demand that Bush resign, or face impeachment for such dishonorable, malicious words.
If Kerry thinks it was just a joke gone bad, maybe he should steer clear of telling jokes, lest he be remembered as one.
Paul, the economy and energy?hahahaha, hehehehehehheheheh, hahahaha(deep breath and repeat).I could slam you all day long on that crap.Your boys have had total control for years, and have only managed to triple the price of fossil fuels, and let’s talk more about the national debt, shall we.Oh, and the fact that actual wages have not kept up with prices.(unless you’re in the top 2% of earners, then you get a break)That’s the shit you’re proud of?Good, stay on their side.We don’t value those things like you do.
Have any of you stepped back and looked at what is going on. Is Kerry the voice of the democrats? I sure hope not. Kerry is one man. He made a mistake, we hope, and he should atone for it. End of story.
This morning, Harld Ford Jr. democrat congressman and senate candidate from Tennessee asked for an apology from Kerry.
Brucy Braly, democrat congressional candidate from Iowa, says Kerry’s comments were ‘inapropriate.
Imus, the liberal-early-morning-radio-butt-boy for liberal democrat candidates, told Kerry, “Please stop it, stop talking, go home…..”
So you libera democrat BLOG rats can spin it how ever you like but in the real world the democrats understand the meaning of Kerry’s words! The literal meaning and the effective meaning!
Hank
Did Bush call up the media and tell them “Hey, Kerry is going to screw up. Y’all make sure you get it and spin it in my direction.”?
No, I think the media picked right up on it themselves. But you want to blame Bush. Wow. Finger pointing? This blog wrote the book on it.
OWN IT !!!! He said something that, shoot, you guys can’t even agree if he meant it or not. OWN the damn thing. You can’t blame EVERYTHING and idiot does on Bush.
Paul – I own the words as spoken in the context in which they were spoken. The CiC failed to learn from his Daddy and now we are stuck in Iraq.
Just to clue you in Paulie – Kerry never said the troops screwed up. He never said the troops got us stuck in Iraq. He never used those words you ascribe to him.
Gee, you sure sound like another guy named Paul …
Hank – I think Imus and others correctly see that Kerry’s words are easily spun to mean something quite different from what was said.
Tracy,Yup, you’re right again. Bush sets the price of oil. Dang, if it weren’t for you I never would have known that. Sheesh. I just thought it was greedy Arabs, Venezuelans and an escalating global demand.
The stock market hitting all time highs? Yeah, that’s Bush’s fault too. No no wait. That’s a good thing. Uhhh. Yeah, the Democrats did that one.
Get a grip tracy. I don’t think Bush is superman or the best president of all time, but to take everything and turn it into a negative about Bush just shows you are a mindless Dem Drone. Just imagine if Gore were elected…..
If you want to get on the band wagon of a democrat, stay away from Kerry and pick one that doesn’t screw up as much. At least then you would begin to be believable, not just laughable.
Hank Price,
Oh, nobody here is disputing that the ‘effective’ meaning of Kerry’s words is politically hurtful.
What we’re disputing is what you’re calling the ‘literal’ meaning, which for people who still have a capacity for independent thought, is called the ‘truth.’ And it doesn’t seem to bother you that the Administration is engaged in a massive lie.
The fact that you regard this as entirely beside the point reveals the secret of the contemporary right: all questions of truth or facts become questions of power.
How’s your right-wing rejection of truth working out for us in Iraq, Hank Price?
This latest episode with Kerry shows that the bullshit machine is all the Bush “Administration” has left. I fear, however, that it will outlast the current occupant of the White House.
“Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the–of–the historical customs, religious customs.”His own words Ben.And again, it is all Bush’s fault. Yeah, the media had nothing to do with that. If you open your eyes and “get clued in Benney” you’ll see that the media ran away with this.
John Kerry walks into a bar.Bartender says, “why the long face?”
Ben, I never asked YOU to own the words. You didn’t speak them. I surely hope you don’t take the burden of Kerry’s misgivings to be your own. That would just be tragic. Isn’t it getting old that when one person messes up, the whole party is implemented?
You folks keep pointing to the “Administration” as the culprit for spinning this. Why then are democrats calling for an apology? Is that Bush’s fault too? Do your arms EVER get tired of pointing at the whitehouse?
Hank Price,
“You can’t get in the service unless you have a high school education or a GED.”
‘OPEN DOOR for HIGH SCHOOL DROPOUTS’http://www.armytimes.com/print.php?f=0-ARMYPAPER-1115401.php“As Army recruiters head into the new fiscal year eager to put the failures of 2005 behind them, they go with a green light to tap a demographic long deemed off-limits: High-school dropouts who don’t have a General Educational Development credential.”
Kerry is what the Democrats stand for. They have no respect for the men and women have fought to give us the right to free speech. They have no respect for the men and women protecting us from another 911 on our very own soil.
It was the Democrats that withheld the money from the military during Vietnam which cost thousands and thousands of lives. But nobody wants to talk about that.
The Democrats do not support our military and Kerry’s words prove it.
Dear CF, (and Gentle people)
You asked:
“A question, Hank Price: did American service personnnel massacre Vietnamese civilians at My Lai? And was this something that should have been publicized, and for which the guilty parties should have been punished?”
Yes they did. Yes, and yes. Your point?
The My Lai massacre was an exception rather than the rule in Viet Nam. Kerry knows this but instead he lied and gave the impression that all of the servicemen in Viet Nam were guilty of atrocities.
He implied that ‘free fire zones’ were zones where we could kill anything that moved without discrimination. The exact opposite was true. Free fire zones were zones where our ment could engage the enemy with out orders from superiors.
In every conflict the US has been in since WWII we have lost men and woman because we value human life and because we try to minimize civilian casualties. We have the ability to vaporize our enemies. We have the ability to stand off cities that annoy us like Falutia and bombard them with artillary, or bombs, or bothe until they are no more than a smoldering hole in the ground. Instead, because we value human life we send our men into harms way to protect the civilians.
Our contry is great because of the way we handle the atrocities like My Lai. We charge the men involved and we try and punish them for all the world to see.
Now, again, what was your point? My Lai is a reason for us to be proud. As a nation we handled it the correct way.
I still love ya, you make me look good!
Hank
Congress did not vote to give Bush the power to go to war. What they voted on was giving him the right to use force after meeting certain conditions.
Read those last 4 words again. AFTER MEETING CERTAIN CONDITIONS. Those conditions were not only not met, they were not even addressed by Bush and his administration.
Y’all were hoodwinked. Congress was hoodwinked. And now what we have are nearly 3000 U.S. men and women dead, many more left with debilitating injuries, both physical and mental, 655000 Iraqis dead, tens of thousands without homes because they chose to flee their country, and the deaths of many of our allies.
So tell me again what good we’ve done in Iraq beyond capturing Saddam, which could have been done in others way with less loss of life on all sides.
Hank Price,
How about that White Supremacist recruiting in the Armed Forces? Going ‘gangbusters,’ so to speak!
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/07/washington/07recruit.html?ex=1309924800&en=1be0e7d4e2aac8d3&ei=5090&partner=rssuserlan
Cage match? It’s over all ready. The manipulation of electronic voting machines will forever insure the GOP’s police state. It’s all a show.
Just watch- when the elections are over, the elite corporate media will say… ‘it must of been Kerry’s blunder that turned the tide.’
Next phase- The GOP intentionally bankrupts America so it can call in the ‘private’ sector to take over.
Let’s get out those canaries for the coal mines all over again America.
Kerry gave the Republicans a Holloween gift, no doubt.
But he also gave one to the Democrats. Because of his Dan Quayle-like comment, he is no longer a serious presidential candidate, leaving the field wide open. The Dems don’t have to play nice to him any more.
Politics ain’t beanbag.
This is really hard to believe. I don’t like any of the politicians involved in this; Dem or Pub. But come on. The Kerry is a combat vet who has been fighting for combat vets during his whole carear in congress. It’s part of his rhetoric for God’s sake! He’s not going to insult combat troops. It makes no sense. It can only hurt his political carear.
I guess you have to expect one side of the battle to launch an isnult and the other side to twist his words. Typicl lawyer bullshit. That is what our politcal system is about these days.
The saddest part of this is that one of the few politicians who you could stand behind, John McCain, has is actually attempting to further this game instead of diffusing it. It seems that he wants the 2008 nomination so bad that even he is willing to pay lip service to the Pub party. Come on John, you’re better than this!
Anyone who engages in word twisting, such as this, is not interested in the issues, but is instead interested in furthering their own political carear. Too bad, I would have voted for McCain in 2008.
John Kerry’s comment is just the latest in a long list of statements that expose his disdain for the military. This list goes back 30+ years.
And THIS is the guy the democrats nominated for president in 2004. Makes me wonder…
Can we trust anyone the democrats favor?
cosmos,
Do you even bother to read your own links? The Army is allowing high school dropouts to join on the ‘delayed entry program’.
Before they can go to basic training they must take the test and qualify for a GED.
You make my point!
Hank
Paul – “Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the–of–the historical customs, religious customs.”
That is why Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki is telling the US to quit doing those things. Unfortunately, since Bush got us stuck in this quagmire occupation such events have become commonplace. That is the nature of a hostile occupation of a people who do not want us there.
KIA, that one is still funny.I’ll have to find some bushie jokes to share.
And to those that are still trying to spin this into a lie, let me spin it further to show you how ridiculous this is:
Get stuck in Iraq- did Kerry mean to insult:
a) Our troops – certainly they are stuck thereb) The Iraqi people – certainly they can’t leavec) All of America – certainly our country is stuck there. Our money and people are certainly going there and we can’t stop it.d) The contractors – certainly their bosses aren’t letting them leavee) The White House and members of the opposite party who supported the Iraq policy
I’m voting for E since it is an election year and it makes sense that a Dem would insult the Pubs regarding a weak spot. So can the spinsters please STOP SPINNING and start talking about issues. This is really stupid.
If you want to come down on Kerry for his anti-Vietnam stuff, I can buy that. But spinning this is just childish.
The republicans must be on their knees for reasons other than those of their closeted gay staffers.
They must be so glad not to have to talk about the real issues.
‘Cause we know where talking about the real issues will get them.
Defeated.
I guess BILL CLINTON! BILL CLINTON! is wearing thin and not working, so now it’s
JOHN KERRY! JOHN KERRY!
They’d rather talk about anything other than
GEORGE BUSHGEORGE BUSH
Just remember, hank and heckie think the swift boaters are credible.
‘Nuff said.
We don’t need the words of the swift boaters or anyone else that you’d like to discredit because he/she disagrees with you.
We have the words of John Kerry (and the rest of the democratic party).
Ben,
The face of war has changed. We don’t have an enemy who wears a uniform. One who uses standard tactics. We face an enemy who will blow up a woman or child. That is their weapon of choice. We must remodel our tactics to react to these atrocities.
Do they want us there? No. Do we want to be there? No. But we are. So now, if they want to ask us to do something different, then we must ask the same of them. They need to police themselves. They must put an end to terrorist tactics.
Oh, and ya wanna talk about bad jokes?
Let’s talk about GEORGE BUSH! GEORGE BUSH!
Let’s talk about his botched joke “those WMD’s must be somewhere”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385×1170
Enjoy….
Tracy,
Here’s one to start you off.
An Israeli doctor said, “medicine in my country is so advanced that we can take a kidney out of one person, put it in another, and have him looking for work in six weeks.”
A German doctor said, “That’s nothing” in Germany, “We can take a lung out of one person, put it in another, and have him looking for work in four weeks.”
A Russian doctor said, “in my country medicine is so advanced, we can take half a heart from one person, put it in another, and have them both looking for work in two weeks.”
The American doctor, not to be outdone, said, “Hah! We took an asshole out of Texas, put him in the White House and half the country was looking for work the next day.”
Or maybe this one?
George Bush died and went to heaven. At the pearly gates, St. Peter asked him if he wanted to go to heaven or to hell. GW asked if he could check out each one before making a decision, so St. Peter agreed.
First GW visited hell and found lush green lawns, big beautiful houses and huge shopping centers. Then he visited heaven and found people talking philosophy, science, history, etc.
He said to St. Peter, “I wouldn’t have believed it, but I choose Hell.”
The next thing he knew, he was chained and surrounded by fire licking at his heels. Satan appeared and GW asked, “What happened to the lush green lawns, the big beautiful houses and the huge shopping centers?”
Satan answered, “Oh, that was just for the campaign. NOW you’ve voted.”
By the way, since Kerry is pushing and blaming so much, what is Kerry’s exit strategy again? Surely he doesn’t want to “cut and run” as he blames Bush for doing in Afghanistan
Uh nujob, we dont hate the swiftboaters because we disagree with them.
Is that the new republican whine?”You hate anyone who disagrees with you.”
No, we hate them because they are liars. Jesus doesnt like liars. We dont either.
Would you like a little cheese to go with that whine?
Come on, let’s talk about GEORGE BUSH! GEORGE BUSH!
He’s just like having a dead chicken tied around your bad dog neck, isnt he?
hehehehehehehehehehehehheheeh
The last desperate act of a desperate party.
JOHN KERRY! JOHN KERRY!
Republicans just LOVE living in the past. Dont like the reality of the present? No problem.
Let’s party like it’s 2004.
As for me, I prefer my elected officials to look forward, not sing Springsteen’s “Glory Days”.
Paul, cut and run?
Surely you can do better than that.
How about Stay the Course? OR better yet, the preznit himself saying “I never said stay the course” and then the video’s of him saying it start to roll.
How much does the RNC or the KSGOP pay you again?
I hope it is at LEAST equal to the price of your soul. ’cause son…
…. you sure done sold it!
Yup. things are pretty shitty with Bush. Lowest unemployment rate, booming economy, stock market records. It’s just a living HELL !!!!
Oh, I’m sorry. I thought you wanted to talk about issues and plans and actions. I could have sworn I asked about Kerry’s plans. Hmmm. but instead you’d rather talk about… Of all things my soul?
Ok, you’ve established the fact that you don’t approve of the way Bush is handling the war. But again, I was wondering what Kerry wants to do.
HAHAHAHHAHAHAYou guys are freakin GREAT !!!! You just asked how much I am getting paid. Dango mano man. I can admit that the leader of my party makes mistakes. can you admit that any ONE of your party does? And you think I’m the one being paid. HAHAHAHHAHAHAH Too good!!!!
It was a living hell for the
ONE HUNDRED AMERICANS WHO DIED IN IRAQ THIS MONTH!!!!!
Come on paulie, let’s talk about their living hell.
Half way across the world from their families, they are maimed for life or blown to bits… for what?
Bush’s ego? His oil profits? Haliburton?
But hey, in paulie’s world, as long as the corporate profits keep rollin’ in, all is well with the world.
Yeah. It aint hell for the 100 AMERICANS WHO DIED IN IRAQ LAST MONTH.
It’s only hell when the golden parachutes fail for the Ken Lays of the world.
Why do you hate our soldier’s paul? Why dont you offer something other than stay the course right into the toilet.
Remember, doing the same things over and over and expecting different results is one definition of insanity.
Just keep staying the course paul. Just keep staying the course.
That way, next year this same time, we can talka bout the
MORE THAN FIVE THOUSAND AMERICANS WHO DIED IN IRAQ
But the dow is up…….
Paul,I’m with you there.
GEORGE BUSH! GEORGE BUSH!
Sure, I can think of many things I’d like to be different. I don’t agree with all of his policies. (I don’t always agree with my boss, either – yet year after year our company grows at a nice steady 15-20%).
I’ll take economic growth, sound leadership on the world-wide war on terror and the guts to make tough decisions despite the polls…
vs. govern by the polls, try to appease moronic governments like France and hatred for the military…
Every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
“Do we want to be there? No”
The why did we invade and occupy their country?
Ah, the BLOGs token lesbo has given us the benefit of her wit.
No one has brought up poor ol’ a-blowjob-isn’t-sex Clinton. But its rather sad that you had to bring up the Foley fiasco.
I’m surprised you didn’t jump right in and defend the poor old republican queer. Oh, that’s right he was a REPUBLICAN queer.
They couldn’t really defame him for what he really was, a poor, sad, over the hill queer. They had to pin child molester on him.
No evidence that he ever touched a child. No evidence that he ever touched an intern. No evidence that he even sent disgusting IMs to an intern. If you get past all of the liberal, hypocritical, bullshit yo will find that he was sending IMs to former pages. Not children!
Poor ol’ Foley’s only crime was being queer as a republican. If he was a democrat it would have been a resume enhancer. If he had been a queer democrat congressman that had a gay lover running a male prostitution ring out of his basement (many of the male prostitues were underage boys) there would be no problem. If he was a gay democrat congressman that actually took a 17 year old male (current) page to a foreign country for the expressed purpose of buggering him in his spare time you could weather the storm and still be embraced by the democrat party.
No dear, of all the people that post on this BLOG, you should understand and defend poor ol’ Foley. I’m dissapointed in you.
Nuff said.
ksfarmgrrl…I’ll respond to that in a second, but first… Oh YEAH!!! We still haven’t discussed what Kerry would do.
“sound leadership on the world-wide war on terror”
Gosh, is that “sound leadership” the same actions that caused the U.S.’s own spy agencies to issue a report that said what GEORGE BUSH DID IN IRAQ WORSENED THE WAR ON TERROR?
Yeah. Must be the same sound leadership.
And no matter how many plans are outlined for you blind bastards, you are just programed to say NO PLAN! NO PLAN!
Hell, even NO PLAN is better than a strategy that WORSENS terror, by the government’s own admission.
Just tell the families of the 100 AMERICANS WHO DIED IN IRAQ THIS MONTH that the best plan is to stay the course.
We see how well that course works.
Any changes in YOUR plans?
I think this hayseed farm girl is forgetting that about 5000 Americans died on 9/11 thanks to the do-nothing policies of a certain democratic president.
How are the lives of those families today knowing that their president did NOTHING to stop the terrorists?
“They had to pin child molester on him.”
Yeah, Hank. YOU are the one defending child molesters here. Why do you hate children?
“They had to pin child molester on him.”
Yeah, wasnt “the democrats are at fault for foley” LAST WEEK’s talking points?
Whats a matter? You didnt get THIS WEEK’s TALKING POINTS yet?
hehehehehehehehheheeheheheheheheheh
yeah. Foley is the democrat’s fault. They covered up his known improprieties with young boys. The repukes are so innocent. It’s all the democrat’s fault that REPUBLICANS covered and supported foley.
And hank supports him too. And the swift boat lies. Call be all the names you want, it doesnt change the fact that you are supporting foley and the swift boat liars. Remember, jesus doesnt like child molesters OR LIARS.
I think again, ’nuff said.
Keep spinning boys. I see how well it’s working.—–
Posted by JM: “No thanks, I’d rather not be associated with the party of the KKK.”
Considering the KKK was associated with the repukes,maybe you’re right. Then again, you guys are still KKK oriented, so switching would end that problem.
The sooner Kerry gets out of politics the better. He’s always trying to blame someone else. I voted against him in the ‘04 primary (but for him in Nov 04 – any other choice??? – where’s Perot?) If we lose this year then Kerry will blame Bush for that, but Kerry should look in the mirror and then get out of politcs and find a job that better suits his STUPID BIG MOUTH.
Also, I’m insulted that the first “comment” on this blog claims that Kerry would never insult our soldiers. That’s plain stupid. He’s been going that for more than 30 years. Are people really that stupid or are they John’s Trolls?
If Hillary, Bill and John can’t get out of Democratic Party politics, then we need to start our own party that represents THE real people and not the STUPID FILTHY RICH (yeah that’s Hillary, Bill and John).
Ksfarmgrrl…HAHAHAHHAA. Man you guys just don’t know when to quit. I hate the soldiers? Have you been reading the posts???? HAHAHAHA And you guys think the repubs spin words. Dang you are unreal !!!
I believe the best bet is to divide the country up. Put each sect in their own space. Funny, y’all bash Bush’s policies but have no offerings of you own. Why don’t YOU provide something Missy?
Are you for real??? Yeah the country is kickin ass right now. Even you Bush hatin Dem Drones can’t cover that up
Is the war shitty? Damn straight it is. What’s going to fix it? Bashing Bush? If you’re in with little Missy’s group, then I guess so.
So aside from bashing Bush what do the drones think will solve Iraq?
pass the popcorn – this is getting to be a good show :)love to see KFG in action on the blog!
… and the other question they dont like to answer is…
Why should John Kerry be responsible for fixing the mess in iraq. IF you break it you buy it.
George Bush and the Republicans are the ones who broke it.
Tell me again how they are gonna fix it? By staying the course. Doing the same things that got us to this point?
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehe
We are amused hank, and we do encourage you to try again.
Paulie, go cash your check from the RNC.
Ben, Are you dense? We ousted Saddam. Did you miss that part?
“”You cannot get into the military today if you do badly in school,” he said”
Paul – we start by getting new leadership. And alternative courses of action have been posted here many times.
Are you SURE you aren’t the Paul who used to post here a lot?
No Paul, I didn’t miss that part. Nor did I miss the part where we killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in the process. From the frying pan to the fire.
Stupid? Only stupid people get into politics. Smart people stay as far from it as they can get. If they are loaded and smart, then they hire people to interface with the politicians (with lots of money :) – then they make more money without getting their hands dirty.
And while we’re at it…
How about the democratic utopia that is New Orleans? They’ve had democrat mayors/governors/state legislators…the democrats have had control of New Orleans for years. It should be a MODEL of equality and standard of living – even before Katrina. ESPECIALLY before Katrina. Yet, the local economy in New Orleans, the quality of life, the crime rate…all embarrassing.
Same for Detroit. There have been more murders in Detroit during the Iraq War than there have been casualties in Iraq… you know the story.
Face it – liberal policies don’t work.
ksfarmgrrl,
HAHAHHA wow what a rip. Go cash my check. Good one.
Oh yeah, if you are going to bitch about the way something is handled you should damn sure have a better plan to back up your words. Otherwise it becomes whining rhetoric. Kerry is GREAT for that !!!
Ben,Then did you miss the part where saddam killed hundreds of thousands with toxic gas. Whoops, wouldn’t THAT be a weapon of mass destruction? hmmmmmmm
Hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee
Yeah paulie. The country is kickin’ ass economically. As long as Kenny Boy Lay gets to keep his money, as long as the DOW is up, all is well with the world.
I guess you get your paychecks from Americans for prosperity or the club for the rich, I mean, the club for growth, not the RNC.
My bad.
Wanna tell the families of those 100 AMERICANS WHO DIED IN IRAQ THIS MONTH that, um, well, war is shitty?
heheheheheh. Just stay the course paulie. IF the dow goes up to 24,000 and there are 200 AMERICANS WHO DIE IN IRAQ NEXT MONTH…
…all is well with the world ’cause ‘merica’s kickin ass?
HEE HEE HEE HEE
Keep spinning paulie. I ask what the repukes will do to stop the slaughter of young americans in iraq and paulie gives me HIS plan to divide the country?
Is the preznit and the RNC taking YOUR advise now? Has bush or cheney, or HALIBURTON approved that divide up the spoils plan? Or is that just your weak excuse for a republican wet dream?
heheheheh
TELL THAT TO THE 100 AMERICANS WHO DIED IN IRAQ THIS MONTH.
I bet they would love to know that is what they were fighting… and DYING for!
Yes, paul, back in the 80s-90s when he was our ally he used gas against our mutual enemies on our behalf. No, I didn’t miss that part either. Nor did i miss the part where April Glasspie gave him the green light to go into Kuwait. Which is why we left someone else, someone with integrity, as our Mission in Baghdad during Desert Storm.
I wonder why this story is on the blog and not in the paper? Every other major news medium has this story plastered out there. When the local country radio station scoops the paper, soemthing is wrong and the paper’s revenues will reflect the problem.
See dear you just keep spewing the party line!
Where’s the evidence that the poor ol’ republican queer was ever guilty of touching or soliciting children?
No dear, I’m not defending the disgusting old pervert. Nothing in my words can be costrued to mean that I defend the poor old queer.
I am, however, shocked and disapointed that with your history of abuse because of your chosen sexual orientation you don’t chose to defend him.
Links dear, give us links that give us the evidence poor old Foley is more than a horny old queer that is attracted to young men.
Surely you give a pretty young lady a second glance, don’t you?
Hank
Hank,
I DID read the link, and several others related to it.
The Army is so desparate, they go after unqualified people. If they meet the physical and other tests, we (taxpayers) pay the Army to educate them to a GED level.
ksfarmgrrl
Yup you’re right. The world is glum. We are in a war. I fought in a war too Missy. Been there done that.
You fail to remember that Kerry voted to give authorization to go to war. So, uhhmmm. Yeah. He also doesn’t seem to have a plan to fix anything. So uhhmmm yeah.
“Stay the course right into the toilet”… so, instead of that we should… Oh yeah, you have no idea.
So how about you ask Kerry to talk to those families.
How about you go talk to the families of 9/11. Have you forgotten about that?
So once again you become the drone. If you are talking about Bush, it has to be negative. How about the 100 soldiers that died. Dang. You really stoop that low? How about you talk about solutions and skip the drama.
“Face it – liberal policies don’t work.”
I see how well your conservative plans are working for the 100AMERICANS WHO DIED IN IRAQ LAST MONTH.
I saw how you conservative republicans did with Katrina. In republican states like Alabama, Mississipi, and Florida.
Oh but please, by all means, say the Katrina response disaster was all because the DEMOCRATS did a “heck of a job.”
hehehhehehehe
I have read from the kkkkarl rove playbook here many times.
Whatever weakness YOU have, try to blame it on the opposition. Up is down and black is right.
heheheheh
in repuke land, the dems are responsible for foley, katrina, and the 100 AMERICANS WHO DIED IN IRAQ this month.
Woof. Talk about believeing six impossible things before breakfast.
Yeah. Katrina was a democrat problem. Foley is a democrat problem. But the record setting DOW is a good republican thing?
Keep going boys. You will single handedly change the vote in Wichita with these dumbass statements.
Oh, and all you potential voters reading out there?
A vote for tiahrt is a vote for dems are responsible for katrina and foley. A vote for tiahrt is a vote for his close friends mark foley and tom delay.
A vote for tiahrt will ensure that we stay the course so another 3000 AMERICANS CAN DIE IN IRAQ FOR BUSH’S EGO AND HALIBURTON’s PROFITS.
Just stay the course boys, just stay the course.
But hey, the dow is at 12,000…all’s well with the world.
And all those caskets and limbless soldiers coming home?
Well… war is shitty………
Ben,I wasn’t aware that we wanted the Kurds dead. They were are enemy? Really? Huh.
9/11 Paul? Those were SAUDIs; not Iraqis.
Yes, really. Has to do with NATO ally Turkey.
Photo of bush looking under a tablecloth.
bush chuckling in voiceover ‘Nope no WMDs there!”
ksfarmgrrl
Stay the course. Huh, you really like that one don’t you. Huh. I sure haven’t heard any alternatives.
With the DOW high, so is employment. Is that fact lost on you? That we have record setting unemployment.
Oh, wait wait. Yeah. 100 SOLDIERS DEAD IN IRAQ. I’ll post that one for ya drama queen. 100 SOLDIERS DEAD IN IRAQ and the dems plan on doing WHAT about it. C’mon drama queen. I know you’re just itching to say it again…
Is toxic gas a weapon of mass destruction?
Heh, Heh, Heh, well it sho look lak ole John Kerry done stuck his foot in it dis time. See, if he bin talkin to some smart folk, none o dis woulda happen. But he shoulda known some o dem ‘Publikins would be a listenin in. Dey sho gets deyselves excited, huh? Ole Bush done got his panties all bunched up an all dem ‘Publikins actin like it made any never mind. Las I heared, ole John Kerry ain’t runnin in dis here election, so he can say bout any dum ting he want.I jes don know bout ole John Kerry bein da president. All us folk down ta da briar patch liked him lots better when he was playin da butler in dat ole Adams Family Tee Vee show.
So hank think’s it’s only abuse when touching occurred?
Asking a young boy to measure his penis and share the results is ok as long as foley didnt touch him?
Hanklogic.
I guess foley’s late night visit to the dorm was foiled by the authorities BEFORE he could touch anyone.
Go ahead hank, defend him. Ask for proof, other than ALL the misconduct that has been documented.
Misconduct like having a sex chat with a young boy while he was on the house floor waiting to cast a vote.
But because he didnt touch the boy, just had internet sex with him on the house floor, that is ok?
hee hee hee hee hee hee
A vote for the republicans is a vote for hanklogic.
I dont defend pedophiles of any stripe hank. Queer or not.
But I see you do! As long as they are republican…..
9/11 Paul? Those were SAUDIs; not Iraqis.
I missed that one Ben, seriously. What are you talking about? Saudi’s did 9/11?
“I think this hayseed farm girl is forgetting that about 5000 Americans died on 9/11 thanks to the do-nothing policies of a certain democratic president.”
I think with all the other generous servings, we missed these “Republican facts.” There are two prevarications in here, can you find them both?
“I missed that one Ben, seriously. What are you talking about? Saudi’s did 9/11?”
The vast majority of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. Anyone else think that some folks around here need some remedial eduKshun?
“Stay the course. Huh, you really like that one don’t you. Huh. I sure haven’t heard any alternatives.”
I havent heard bush give any alternatives either paulie.
And it is indeed bush’s mess. It belongs to no one but him. And maybe tony “I heart george” blair.
Bush’s alternative to stay the course is what?
Maybe you missed this link to bush’s bad joke about WMD.
heheheh and golfnutcase says DEMOCRATS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR 9/11?
heheheheh. See? He only gets his talking points from kkkarl. Whatever weakness you have, pin it on the democrats.
Golfnutcase, dont you see that isnt working?
But we are amused, and we do encourage you to try again.
Ah I see my favorite wittle bunny has appeared. Long time no see. Need more snickerdoodles? (heehee) gotta get you fattened up for a long winter :)now you got the Addams family theme song stuck in my head “they’re crazy and they’re kooky…” sounds like most polititians.
Three republican shill lies in three posts?
Post a link to show 5000 Americans died in the 9/11 attack.
Show that clinton was responsible.Heheheh. BILL CLINTON! THE DEMS WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR KATRINA!
The saudi’s did not make up the bulk of the hijakers on 9/11
See? Hanklogic. Republican logic.
But by all means… send tiahrt back to congress so he can STAY THE COURSE and 100 MORE AMERICANS CAN DIE IN IRAQ THIS MONTH.
How dare you call those deaths “drama”.
Tell that to their families paulie.
NOW WHO IS INSULTING THE TROOPS!!!!
The value of their lives is only “drama”.
Vote republican. It’s easier than thinking, isnt it?
ksfarmgrrl
Oh yeah, dividing the country up, that wouldn’t be an alternative. Hah. Hey, let’s blame Bush. 100 SOLDIERS DIED IN IRAQ
I hear a LOT of belly aching, but no solutions. Again, when you complain about a problem and have no better solution, it becomes pointless rhetoric.
Its Bush’s mess? What about all the folks who supported the war before it got messy? Sure thing. All his fault.
Not calling their deaths drama. I lost friends in the first gulf war. What I am calling drama is your shameless prostituting of their deaths to place blame but have no answers for yourself.
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | November 01, 2006 at 11:50 AM
42,000 people died in automobile accidents in 1999, can we blame that on Clinton? I mean he was the President supposed to be looking after our safety and welfare.
Being as how no american soldiers would have died if the bush fiasco hadn’t lied to everybody to get the approval to invade Iraq, 100 dead soldiers in a month IS a bad number. And as Bush got us into this mess, don’t you repukes think YOU should be comming up with a real exit stratagy, or is that too much for you to be thinking about?
This fiasco has done NOTHING to stop terrorism in the world, and, in fact, has made terrorists out of people who probably wouldn’t even have thought about it.
So exit stratagy? How about you repukes coming up with something sensible? Can’t do it? Rush got your brain?
In my humble opinion, we shouldn’t need an exit stratagy because we had no business being there in the first place. Saddamm’s regime was no better or worse than N Korea, Dufar, and a whole lot of other countries . . . O, wait, I forgot: Oil . . . and lest we forget: CLINTON . . . CLINTON!
ksfarmgrrl
Check the posts sweetie. Benny pointed that out. Guess she needs some EdUKshun too huh?
Paul you must be completely blind and deaf if you didn’t know that Saudis pulled off 9/11!!15 of 19 hijackers = Saudi ArabiansBut lets get to something more productive than trying to talk to you Paul.
Here it is again for you folks who are actually capable of abstract thought:
THE DEMOCRATIC PLAN
21st Century MilitaryTo Ensure Unparalleled Military Strength and Honor our Troops, we will:Rebuild a state-of-the-art military by making the needed investments in equipment and manpower so that we can project power to protect America wherever and whenever necessary.
Guarantee that our troops have the protective gear, equipment, and training they need and are never sent to war without accurate intelligence and a strategy for success.
Enact a GI Bill of Rights for the 21st Century that guarantees our troops — active, reserve, and retired — our veterans, and their families receive the pay, health care, mental health services, and other benefits they have earned and deserve.
Strengthen the National Guard, in partnership with the nation’s Governors, to ensure it is fully manned, equipped and available to meet missions at home and abroad.
War on TerrorTo Defeat Terrorists and Stop the Spread of Weapons of Mass Destruction, we will:Eliminate Osama Bin Laden, destroy terrorist networks like al Qaeda, finish the job in Afghanistan and end the threat posed by the Taliban.
Double the size of our Special Forces, increase our human intelligence capabilities, and ensure our intelligence is free from political pressure.
Eliminate terrorist breeding grounds by combating the economic, social, and political conditions that allow extremism to thrive; lead international efforts to uphold and defend human rights; and renew longstanding alliances that have advanced our national security objectives.
Secure by 2010 loose nuclear materials that terrorists could use to build nuclear weapons or “dirty bombs.”
Redouble efforts to stop nuclear weapons development in Iran and North Korea.
Homeland SecurityTo Protect America from Terrorism and Natural Disasters, we will:Immediately implement the recommendations of the independent, bipartisan 9/11 Commission including securing national borders, ports, airports and mass transit systems.
Screen 100% of containers and cargo bound for the U.S. in ships or airplanes at the point of origin and safeguard America’s nuclear and chemical plants, and food and water supplies.
Prevent outsourcing of critical components of our national security infrastructure — such as ports, airports and mass transit — to foreign interests that put America at risk.
Provide firefighters, emergency medical workers, police officers, and other workers on the front lines with the training, staffing, equipment and cutting-edge technology they need.
Protect America from biological terrorism and pandemics, including the Avian flu, by investing in the public health infrastructure and training public health workers.
IraqTo Honor the Sacrifice of Our Troops, we will:Ensure 2006 is a year of significant transition to full Iraqi sovereignty, with the Iraqis assuming primary responsibility for securing and governing their country and with the responsible redeployment of U.S. forces.
Insist that Iraqis make the political compromises necessary to unite their country and defeat the insurgency; promote regional diplomacy; and strongly encourage our allies and other nations to play a constructive role.
Hold the Bush Administration accountable for its manipulated pre-war intelligence, poor planning and contracting abuses that have placed our troops at greater risk and wasted billions of taxpayer dollars.
Energy IndependenceTo Free America from Dependence on Foreign Oil, we will:Achieve energy independence for America by 2020 by eliminating reliance on oil from the Middle East and other unstable regions of the world.
Increase production of alternate fuels from America’s heartland including bio-fuels, geothermal, clean coal, fuel cells, solar and wind; promote hybrid and flex fuel vehicle technology and manufacturing; enhance energy efficiency and conservation incentives.
“In my humble opinion, we shouldn’t need an exit stratagy because we had no business being there in the first place.”
Huh, yeah, that will fix the problem. Bush got us into the war, the war Kerry supported…..
As usual, Digby gets it right.
**********************************digbysblog.blogspot.com
Apologies Accepted
by digby
If you are watching the wall-to-wall Kerry-hates-the-troops coverage today on the cablers you can see perfectly how the patented GOP sanctimonious “demand for an apology” works.
First, you have to be a phony hypocritical Republican. Democrats can never pull this off.Second, you have to choose a comment that isn’t particularly heinous or is vaguely worded. You want the comment to not be particularly bad, for reasons that become obvious when you get to the endgame.Third, being desperate to do your bidding because they’ve been a little bit harsh and are eager to get back in your good graces, you give the media tons of footage and sound-bites to work with.Fourth you pump the story as hard as you can by demanding that other Democrats distance themselves from the remarks, which they begin to do slowly at first then pile on like a litter of puppies.Fifth, you wear down the perpetrator (who has, remember, done nothing really wrong) until you get him to apologise.
And then after all this is said and done, you call all Democrats pussies because they aren’t stand-up guys. After all, they just bowed and scraped and apologised for a trivial comment they had no need to apologise for. Who can trust such weaklings to run the government?
Pay no attention to the death, destruction, incompetence and horror that lies at the center of this coming election. The narrative says Republicans are brave and strong and Democrats are weak and cowardly and that is how it must be. Even if they have to make up a story to illustrate that, the press will do its duty.”
***********************************
All the more reason to vote Democratic on November 7: a vote for the Democrats is a vote against our phony, side-taking ‘media.’
Paul, there is what the dems are proposing as their platform.
Where’s yours?
Are you just an obstrucionist?Or would you rather join us in turning this country around to a place that the whole world admires again?
“Oh yeah, dividing the country up, that wouldn’t be an alternative.”
Post a link to show that the bush administation supports that plan.
It’s YOUR plan paulie, not bush’s.
Oh, and if we tell the truth about the ever increasing death toll of americans in iraq, we are prostituting them?
God damn. That’s a stretch even for a jackass like you paulie.
Facts are facts. YOU are the one who thinks all those deaths dont matter nearly as much as the DOW being up.
A vote for tiahrt is a vote for paulie’s logic.
Get thee to the polls.
Here’s my counter-narrative:
“Republicans are lying pukes who will say anything or attack anyone to avoid taking responsibilty for their own actions.”
The benefit of mine, of course, is the abundance of evidence to support it. Shame the media isn’t on my side.
“Its Bush’s mess? What about all the folks who supported the war before it got messy? Sure thing. All his fault.”
Uh, so now it’s john kerry’s war?
hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee
If it isnt bush’s fault, it must be the fault of the… wait for it… DEMOCRATS that the war is going so badly?
hee hee heehehehehheheh ROFLMQAO!!!
Wiping tears….
hee hee hee hee hee
See? No matter how bad bush screws up, it’s always the fault of the democrats.
I’m surprised he hasnt blamed BILL CLINTON BILL CLINTON.
Yeah. Iraq is a democrat war….
hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee
This time, we are TRUELY amused and we do encourage you to try again.
Only in republicanland, you know the one that touts the CULTURE OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY…
…the 100 TROOPS DEAD IN IRAQ this month are john kerry’s fault.
So much for the culture of personal responsibility.
Remember, a vote for tiahrt is a vote for the likes of paulie. Doing the same things over and over while blaming the democrats.
heheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh
Tracy,To Honor the Sacrifice of Our Troops, we will:Ensure 2006 is a year of significant transition to full Iraqi sovereignty, with the Iraqis assuming primary responsibility for securing and governing their country and with the responsible redeployment of U.S. forces.Insist that Iraqis make the political compromises necessary to unite their country and defeat the insurgency; promote regional diplomacy; and strongly encourage our allies and other nations to play a constructive role.Sounds familiar. Oh, yeah, that’s what we’re doing now. Great plan.
did paulie conveniently leave the field. Did he run like a dog with his tail between his legs?
Uh, paulie, now that the democrat’s plan has been posted…
…could you kindly post BUSH’s PLAN FOR VICTORY?
How about posting his new course? You know the one that abandon’s his STAY THE COURSE?
Could you please post bush’s exit strategy?
Yeah. When monkey’s fly. That is when paulie will post bushies PLAN FOR VICTORY.
hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee
“nope, no WMD under the table”….
So funny it makes me want to cry!
That’s not an answer.Do you have an answer?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2393750,00.html
No link either Tracy.
I see he’s baaaaaaack.
Funny, what he posted as the “new plan” sounds a lot like the “old plan”.
And you wonder why we keep chiding you about stay the course.
The new plan? hee hee hee hee
CONTINUE TO STAY THE COURSE….
How’s that working paulie?
Or should I ask the 100 troops who DIED IN IRAQ LAST MONTH?
Damn, KFG.I’m being so polite too.Paul would you politely answer with the plans from whatever party you plan to support?
I don’t remember placing the blame on the Democrats. Y’all seem to be REAL good at blaming a party. Doesn’t mean everyone does the same thing.
Bush wasn’t the only one who wanted to go to war. Seems a majority of our congress voted to give the authority. Dems and Repubs alike. But now we don’t want to talk about that do we?
Tracy,
One of your better posts on the Democratic plan. Although I don’t agree with the entire post, it shows you are capable of intelligent discussion.
You go girl!
We need more sanity in the blog and less personal attacks…keep up the informative posts.
EARTH MOTHER!!!
Is this really the start of WWIII?
I’m trying very hard JM.
BTW, I’m a 46 yr old white protestant middle class MALE.
Paul, nice try with the link.Better than nothing, but it’s definately not A PLAN.It’s the rambling brainstormings of a brainless administration that is frustrated and clueless.
The point being Iraq is a mess. Stay the course doesn’t work. What I am barking about is how quickly y’all will jump on bush, but no one seems to have a solution. So, does that make Bush dumb? Then I guess the whole country is dumb since no one has an answer for the problem.
Old plan, new plan… What is the Dem plan? Oh yeah, the same thing Bush is doing. Wouldn’t that be “Stay the course?”
You’re being evasive and trying to misdirect us again Paul.
I’ll check back.
Like I said before,I could do something more productive than playing whack-a-mole with Paul.
How can this be more clear for you? Iraq is a mess. The majority of the congress voted to go to war. No one has a solution to getting out of there. Where can I make this more clear?
Paul,
Stop lying. The Congress voted to authorize the President to use force. They did not vote ‘for a war.’
Paulie – various new plans HAVE been discussed. It is BUSH who refuses to consider change.
Let me use an analogy for you: If you were facing dangerous surgery to correct a medical condition caused by the malpractice of a doctor would you entrust your life to that same doctor yet again? I wouldn’t.
If you vote to give the authority then you vote for the action to occur. There is no lie there. The lie is saying “Yes, I voted to authorize the action but… now I don’t want the action to occur.”
“Old plan, new plan… What is the Dem plan? Oh yeah, the same thing Bush is doing.”
Can you read? Now who needs education?
Paulie, there is no need to make your spin and your lies more clear.
We see who you are and what you support. We see it VERY clearly.
But please, keep posting. Evertime you post, a democratic angel gets its wings….
“If you were facing dangerous surgery to correct a medical condition caused by the malpractice of a doctor would you entrust your life to that same doctor yet again? I wouldn’t.”
But CLEARLY paulie would, as long as the doc was a republican.
He’d be shouting “STAY THE COURSE” all the way to the morgue.
“We are constantly adjusting our tactics so that we achieve the objective, and right now it’s tough, it’s tough,”
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – President Bush said Saturday he would make “every necessary change” in tactics to respond to spiraling violence in Iraq, and he acknowledged a drive to stabilize Baghdad had not gone as planned.But he said he would not abandon his goal of building a self-sustaining Iraqi government.
Isn’t that also the great plan of the democrats?
Ooops! Sorry Tracy, my bad on the gender assignment(blush.) heh
Paul, perhaps the difference is the President presents no “drop dead date” in his plan; the Dems set a timeline. HTH.
I see paulie reads about as well as the usual “hooked on phonics” crowd here.
Could you tell us what “necessary change” bush is advocating?
Oh, and by the way, what “adjustments” have been made?
Still staying the course according to the 100 AMERICANS WHO DIED IN IRAQ THIS MONTH.
We see how those “adjustments” are working.
Go read the democrat’s plan again paul.
Maybe you can convince bush to adopt it and call it his own.
Remember, black is white and up is down in kkkarl’s world….
President Bush: “I can’t respecticle John Kerry for his commas about our military personnel in Iraq. He slendered what they’re doing in such a fusion that boggledates me!! He should say what he thinks, and think what he sows, if you ask me!!”
Since I am not a republican….
I better go cash my welfare checks before I go to tend one of the three businesses I own.
I leave paulie in CF’s oh-so-capable hands.
Got to ask you guys, can anyone show me where I said “Stay the course” was the right plan?
You know what, you folks only see parties. I see you folks as individuals. I see Kerry as an individual. He doesn’t speak for the Democrats. What he said was dumb. I blame HIM for saying it, not the democrats.I see Bush as an individual. Not the Republican Party. Should we have gone into Iraq? Damn straight. Saddam was dangerous and housed terrorism and hatred for America. Should he have seen the civil war brewing? Yup. His cabinet and the congress should have too. The responsibility does lie in his court, but it doesn’t seem like anyone else has a viable solution to stabilizing the country. Lots of rhetoric, but nothing that can be put into action.
Bush’s “adjustments” amount to no more than rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic while telling the passengers they are just stopping to pick up ice cubes.
Once again, I’ve only skimmed the thread, but one might point out that, during Vietnam, those unlucky souls who lost their student deferments got a one-way ticket to Hell.
So assuming that Kerry meant what the right-wingers are desperately pretending he meant: So what?
Is it not true that many of our poorest citizens join the military, college being unfortunately out of reach?
I know some of y’all will spin that as somehow an attack on the military and/or the poor. Fuck you in advance.
Republicans better hope this headline isnt true.
“Election may hinge on unmarried women.”
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/midterm_elections_2006
ksfarmgrrl,
Shame you are leaving. Hope you check this post when you return.
So after you cash your check and tend to one of your three businesses, will you visit any of the families of the soldiers? You brazenly parade your success, but the success is a bane to the country – As reading your posts – DOW is up, but 100 SOLDIERS DIED…Hypocrite comes to mind.
“I see paulie reads about as well as the usual “hooked on phonics” crowd here.”Are you bashing your own fellow bloggers now?
Also, if you read the Dem’s plan (Thanx for posting tracy) it says the same thing the Bush policy says. So the stay the course thing? Yeah doesn’t hold water when your plan is the same plan that is failing now.
Bush’s “adjustments” amount to no more than rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic while telling the passengers they are just stopping to pick up ice cubes.
I agree Ben, but fighting a force like this… what do you do. The Iraqi’s won’t stand up for themselves. The virginal government can’t find its butt with a flash light and a compass. We tried to give them democracy and freedom. They don’t know how to handle it and seem unable to support themselves. If we exit before they can/do, then what happens to the people. That would be a cut and run tactic that would do more harm than good.
Paul – I ask again:
Let me use an analogy for you: If you were facing dangerous surgery to correct a medical condition caused by the malpractice of a doctor would you entrust your life to that same doctor yet again? I wouldn’t.
I came from a middle/upper middle class family. My Dad served in the Civil Service and my Mom was a teacher. Education was fostered greatly in my family and I was in advanced classes throughout my schooling. I joined the Army because I knew I wasn’t ready for college. I needed and found more discipline in the Army. While in I was afforded the chance to “fight for my country” and I did so proudly.
Some folks don’t have a choice. They join or starve. That’s being dramatic, but you get the point. If this is the fact, then what purpose is served by telling the brave soles offering their lives that they are poor, undereducated or perhaps not as intelligent as the rest of the world?
How many shortcomings do you have? Would you like folks to point those out? Especially if you are in a job meant to protect their freedom? They are in a war not of their choosing. Their lives are on the line. What is the point of demoralizing them?
Ben,
Then what are you bitching about? His plan isn’t working and you don’t trust him to try anything else. Holy shit man can you paint him into a worse corner?
Ben,
Speaking of Titanic, did you happen to see the report on the faulty iron bolts used on the Titanic. Evidently, some metallurgists did some electromicroscopy, xray and flux studies and found that iron bolts used to hold the hull portions of the Titanic were defective.
They theorized that these faulty bolts was a primary contributing reason for the massive flooding of the Titanic’s compartments. The heads of the bolts popped out causing hull plates to rupture.
Paul – I haven’t painted him into a corner. He did that by himself.
Paul, you’re welcome, and we’re getting somewhere at least.”Rolling with the punches” could be GW’s strategy at this point.And that would qualify as part of an overall plan.However, I believe that this meme is already taken by the Armed Forces themselves.Marines, special forces, etc, have always been taught to adapt to their enemy, and think on their feet.No doubt, we are between a rock and a hard place, and I’m not sure there is a valid plan for the spot we’re in.(ya’ can’t say we’re being defeated and that’s all planned)Now the problem is that the hawks got us here without a notion of failure, and therefore no “plan B”, so to speak.I admit that my question was LOADED, as I know that they do not have a valid plan for what we are experiencing in Iraq.
The Dems future plans for strong defense and energy independence DO closely mirror what the repubs have planned. After those two items, they are way apart on others.
Ben,
The US has tried to get Iraq online. We gave them a democratically elected government to govern themselves, but they won’t do it. We trained their forces to protect themselves, but they won’t do it. Is there a solution to a country that won’t support itself?
yes, there is, but you and Bush won’t listen so there is no point.
Face it Paulie, Bush has gotten us stuck in a quagmire. His daddy warned him not to do it!
I give up. I have to admit that Kerry was right!
Check out the picture of our troops on Drudge.
http://www.drudgereport.com/
As you see, I am an average guy who is very proud of our military, our government, our schools and our kids.I’m proud of America.The nasty sarcastic tone and tenor of many of my comments is only the outward signs for the inner disgust I feel about where this country has gone since 9/11.
Disagree and call me names, rant, rave, bitch and moan, but above all, DO NOT question my motives as an American. It is not fair of our president to try to equate liberals with treason, and he shall be called on it.
So, for you folks who would like to get beyond ‘he said, she said’, and without personal insults, actually discuss the issue of how to make this a better country,well….You now have the floor.
Tracy,
Glad the venom has dried up. The republicans usually have a strong military. I have been out for, geeze, a few years and what they have now for equipment kicks the crap out of what I had. So yeah, the repubs are keeping up with the military.
When this was an Army on Army war, Iraq stood not a chance. We kicked their tails. Now we are in a conflict not unlike Viet Nam. We are facing enemy tactics we are unable to combat. Until we learn how to fight a force like this, there will be problems with every future conflict.
I agree that the burden lies with the president to get us out of Iraq. I used president on purpose. If it were Bush, Kerry, or even Regan in office, it is the president’s role. A caveat though is that the president was not the only one willing to get into this. Both parties signed on. That has been my point throughout. Doesn’t save the president from the burden though. It is still his baby. It is just rhetoric to sling mud and say fix it when a) there is no real solution and b) the mud slingers don’t have any better idea what to do.
Ben,I read what the Dem plan was from what Tracy posted. It is the same thing we are doing RIGHT now. So what is it that the president should be listening to? I haven’t seen a plan yet.
Bush “cuts and runs”, abandons search for missing US soldier.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/31/AR2006103100452.html
Hank, that is funny.God bless them for keeping a sense of humor, I don’t care at who’s expense!!
Here’s a real lesson from Vietnam. We lost in an invasion of other people’s country. Ho Chi Minh actually fought for OUR SIDE in WWII, and then asked the US for help against the French. American leaders thumbed their noses at him. They thought it was fine for the colonialist French to oppress the Vietnamese. A man wanted America to support his country’s independence. We made an enemy out of a potential friend.
Fast forward. We lost in Vietnam 35 years ago, after making an enemy of a nation that wanted to befried us. I just ordered a sweater from Heartland-based Cabelas. Very nice. Made in Vietnam.
We lost the control-other-people game there, but now we can fairly trade. We could have had a fair-trade-based-relationship with them a long time ago, had our leaders, including Defense Sec’y McNamara–who looks like he could be Donald Rumsfeld’s dad–not screwed two nations, just like his later-day look-alike.
Shortly after leaving Sadr city, U.S. troops dismantled other checkpoints in the downtown Karradah neighborhood where the soldier had been abducted, loading barbed wire coils onto their Stryker armored vehicles.
So I’m sorry chronie, where exactly does it state that Bush cut and ran?????
Yeah,
My friends and I got a big laugh out of John Kerry’s comments.
I was sitting next to an Electrical Engineer, I am in the field of study myself, and over half of my battalion is comprised of Reservists, many of whom volunteered to be here.
Yep, we are all uneducated idiots…
BAGHDAD, Iraq — U.S. troops on Tuesday abandoned checkpoints around the Shiite militia stronghold of Sadr City on orders from Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, the latest in a series of moves by the Iraqi leader to assert his authority with the U.S. administration.
“what purpose is served by telling the brave soles offering their lives that they are poor, undereducated or perhaps not as intelligent as the rest of the world?”
That’s a bit of a stretch beyond even what you THINK he said. He was, after all, talking to college students, not soldiers. It also demonstrates the implausiblity of what’s being inferred here: students who wash out of college are NOT automatically being shipped off to Iraq.
Yet.
Nathan,
Best of luck brother. Come home safe with your company.
I’m afraid that the tough answer is: that now we’ve propped them up and tried to equip and train them,well we need to back off.IMHO, we should be back in Afghanistan IN FORCE, and making that our “beach-head” for democracy.It’s an excellent spot strategically, and more easily defensable I believe.I don’t care what we call our withdrawel, but we are nothing but exascerbating the situation in Iraq by staying.If we leave, and Al Queda is stupid enough to move into the open there, then that would be great. As Paul states, we cannot be whipped in open conventional warfare, which is exactly what we are denied by staying.In short, we’re playing their game.Sun Tzu would NOT be pleased.
Heartlander,
Oh yeah, Vietnam is a wonderful place to be as long as you don’t say anything against the government, are a Christian, etc…etc…
“That’s a bit of a stretch beyond even what you THINK he said.”
I’m not the only one who THINKS this hero. Why don’t you ask a couple of folks deployed what they THINK he said?
Are you that ignorant that you believe that what Kerry said is not widely being taken as hurtful and shameful by ALL parties; even those unaffiliated.
Can your liberal blinders be pulled even tighter?
We can fair-trade with Iraq and Iran. Our uber-capitalist control-freak oilogarchy will just have to learn to DEAL with people with RESPECT, instead of trying to pull this feudal “We’re the lords, and you’re the serfs” bs. Will oil become more expensive. Yeah. Will this cost-rise stimulate alternative-energy and energy-efficiency development? Yeah. Can we live with this domestic economy-boosting development? Yeah. Will it cause American citizens who have been converted into stupid “consumers” to awaken, and realize that, when run wisely, America can be the greatest nation in history, a nation that can fulfill its Founding Fathers’ vision? Quite possibly. It’s worth making the effort to find out.
Paul you said one thing that is sensible to me regarding this topic(http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2006/11/kerry_snow_shou.html#comment-24679761)
Everything else is poppycock.
Kerry: He made a mistake, he omitted the word “US”. I’m glad he made the mistake because his rebuttals about draft dodgers in the white house committing our soldiers to a war of choice on false pretenses is what he’ll be talking about every time he gets the chance and that is the real issue.
Kerry served his country and in my mind has been committed to the truth at every point. It’s tricky. I think there’s something in our nature that places loyalty to ideas, people, or a cause above the truth. It’s why we hate whistle-blowers and snitches, but thank God for them.
I got news for you Paul, we lost the Vietnam war, but as Kerry often talks about and it is common knowledge, our Politicians knew and continued to commit troops or not get troops out and THOUSANDS died. They placed their loyalty to their high-fallutin ideas above the lives of our soldiers.
Sometimes your loyalty to people, to a cause or a party or an ideal needs to be scrutinized based on the facts.
Case in point. A bit of conjecture here, but a man who i respected (and do still) was used (like toilet paper!!) by the Bush administration and essentially was the lynch pin to start the IRAQ war machine from which billions of dollars are streaming out of our economy and tens of thousands have died. I often question whether Colin Powell was too loyal to this administration (being a Good Soldier) in not questioning the veracity of aluminum tubes as an implication of Saddam’s nuclear ambitions/capability. He was the only competent person in the cabinet when it came to foreign affairs and his clashes with the other (lady)hawks is well published. His testimony and the trust Congress and the world had in him as a good judge of the situation convinced the international community and more importantly the senate towards a state of cooperation.
Soldiers are taught the value of loyalty at all costs and he’d been one of the best soldiers this country had produced. I think you have between Kerry and Powell the difference between one soldier who thought the truth was more important than loyalty to a lie. I know that if Powell had a do over, he’d take it. He’s as much as said so.
The Concept of the truth versus allegiance to a lie could be better practiced along idealogical lines as well. I’m willing to be convinced that a policy is better if I see proof, but folk here just dig in and restate their positions over and over and call names and swear and all that.
PAUL: Congress did authorize the President to go to war. Kerry has consistently maintained that he believed all along that the authorization to go to war was never the same as them signing the bill and then the war starting the next day.
It was expected that realizing the gravity of the situation and taking into considerations the experts assessments that every diplomatic option would be exhausted. He gave a cabinet and administration with no first hand military xp(except for Powell), and therefore little appreciation of the consequences of their actions way too much credit.
Almost no diplomatic options were even attempted. They even violated their own deadline by bombing a location where Saddam was supposed to be a day earlier than they said the would go to war.
Paul, don’t mistake Big business doing well and wealthy folk making out like gang busters doing well for a good economy.
Government makes the rules by which business operate (unless of course you hand over the reigns to the W.T.O., but even that was our decision). Any discussion of the economy must be done in the context of the fiscal fitness of our Govt (it collapses or is strapped, then you got problems (think the Soviet Union)). This running of massive debt and the interest that we’re accruing on that debt, the amount of cash owned by foreigners and reinvested in our real assets here, the amount of our manufacturing base moving off shore, severely hurting unionized work and curtailing our ability as regular citizens to negotiate a living wage in this country. Too many in this country (except big corporations and really rich folk strapped with massive debt (mortgages, credit, the govt itself, etc…) this is what’s fueling our economy. People use their credit and home equity to buy. It’s not true economic strength, it’s the appearance of that. Good economy is not found in IOUs, it’s found in folk not living beyond their means, with the ability to save, to pay for college and health-care and retirement without going into debt to do it. It’s an active economy, but we’re an international crisis away from serfdom here my friends.
Sending billions of dollars out of our economy never to be seen again for an ill advised war that will indenture our children in tax money and that unites our enemies is not the way to strengthen our economy.
At least when the dems spend tax money it’s a investment in Americans and not throwing money to the wind in war or giving it all to rich folk American or otherwise.
A lot of fragmented ideas here, but i don’t have to the time to re-write. You get my point!
Paul, I doubt you’ll be doing any re-evaluation based upon anything I’ve written, but really, this administration is wrong and it starts with their ideology and ends with their mind-boggling incompetence.
At this point I feel as if I could do a better job of running the country with the right support.
The speeches, the decisions all of it. Bush has lowered the expectations of the most powerful job in the world (reminds me of inner-city schools). Soon we’ll having prostitutes and porn stars running for president (like in California).
But right now we really NEED another FDR.
Liberal blinders? Nope. It’s an ability to comprehend the English language.
RageThen answer the question
ADemForSure,Give me a second to take this in. Good points….
OK, Let me get this out first off. I don’t agree with everything GW has done. I do believe that he had motives in Iraq that he hasn’t told the public about.
First off, there should have been (I don’t know for sure that there wasn’t) more research done on an exit strategy. I doubt he had one. Also; the effect of the militia blending in with the civilians, the terroristic tactics, etc, etc, etc.
Did saddam deserve to be ousted? You betcha. Should we have gone to war like we did. I don’t think so.
I don’t believe that the congress didn’t know Bush would go to war. Think that is a ripe crock of shit. You don’t put bullets into an angry man’s gun and expect that no one would be shot. That is back peddling bullshit.
OK, so Bush was wrong for going to war in Iraq. Given. The congress was wrong for giving him the authority. Given. (That is the CONGRESS – not the dems or pubs, but the entire congress).
The fact remains that we have our kids being shot at. That needs to stop. Bitching about Bush saves not one life.
Well lets talk about this administrations policy on higher education. hmmm they raised the interest rate on student loans, the cut 14 billion from higher education funding — leaving about 2 million potential college students per year just SOL. Really seems like they and the countries aristocracy don’t want smart people — they want sheep … smart educated people read and make intelligent choices — which would leave most republicans and many democrat office holders out of work … certainly a sad state of affairs.
“Then answer the question”
What question? Your SUGGESTION requires that I e-mail a couple of friends and get back to you.
Ben,
Let’s use the proper analagy;
Some raghead has blown a gapping, smoking hole in your chest. The surgeon elected to save you is doing everything in his power to make you whole again.
While working to minimize damage to your body this very same surgeon has the responsibility for trying to prevent another raghead from blowing another hole in your chest.
After five years of hard 24/7 work he has managed to do both. There is a lot more to be done, but he’s still working on it.
Now, in that very same hospital there are other surgeons, nurses and floorsweeps that are jealous of your surgeons knowledge, power and good works. They will do anything to destroy his good work just so they can be in power again.
Would you allow them to take over your healthcare?
Hank
“The fact remains that we have our kids being shot at. That needs to stop. Bitching about Bush saves not one life.”
din-ding—YOU WIN!!!I am in agreement.Bitching will not help.However, the only way we can “help” is to vote for candidates who WILL stop our kids from dying for Iraq.Iraqis do not want us there, we should not be dying to stay.
Then answer the question”
What question? Your SUGGESTION requires that I e-mail a couple of friends and get back to you.
The question is where does that article state that Bush “cut and ran”
Whoops, thought you had command over the english language. Thought that meant reading as well.
My bad Rage, it was a posting from Dave S
Shortly after leaving Sadr city, U.S. troops dismantled other checkpoints in the downtown Karradah neighborhood where the soldier had been abducted, loading barbed wire coils onto their Stryker armored vehicles.
So I’m sorry chronie, where exactly does it state that Bush cut and ran?????
Tracy,
Again, from your posting, the democratic plan seems to be the same as what we are doing. Get the Iraqi people to police and govern the Iraqi people. I guess I don’t see how electing Kerry will help. Not trying to start another fight, but Kerry does seem to be driven by polls and the public voice. He does seem to sway the way the polls do. Wouldn’t that do more harm?
“The question is where does that article state that Bush ‘cut and ran.’”
I think you’ve confused me with dave s. I haven’t had the time yet to read his link, so I’ll pass on that.
Oops. . post crossed. Thanks, Paul.
Rage,
Why is it the democrats are distancing themselves from Kerry, are with the majority in thinking what Kerry said was dumb, and asking Kerry to apologize?
Tracy and Paul,
Marines, Sailors, Airmen, and Soldiers are being killed by terrorists, mercenaries, and insurgents because they want to defeat us.
It is a war. What do you think happens in war?
People are going to die.
What we are doing here is a noble and proud thing.
We are helping a country rebuild it’s self and fend for it’s self while their are foriegn powers, terrorists, and insurgents doing everything they can to stop us.
Meanwhile we have the liberals in full cheerleader mode for us to just leave…
Don’t pretend like you honestly care about those being killed here. What you care about is your political agend and how the death here can be used to further it.
Paul, I think kerry made a mistake and should admit it.Even if it would have come off as a joke, it would have been inaproppriate. Flubbing the joke made it beyond that.I don’t know that Kerry is running for anything, is he?I think he was just stumping for another candidate.I don’t think Kerry will ever get nominated in a presidential again.I didn’t think he was our best candidate last time, and I wouldn’t support him in another bid.
Snow and Bush are chicken hawks trying to squawk loud enough to change the subject. Bad joke? How about Bush’s “Now MWDs here!, Maybe under the table” hee haw with the press. Bush, Snow and the Bush media are pathetic.
HOLD THE PRESSES !!!
CNN.COM
Kerry told radio host Don Imus he meant no offense to troops and apologized for what he called “a botched joke” about President Bush’s Iraq policies
OUTSTANDING Kerry. If he’d just done this yesterday !!!!!
“Why is it the democrats are distancing themselves from Kerry”
Oh, that’s easy. Notice they’re all running for office. Why let yourself be swiftboated in the last days of the election, for something SOMEONE ELSE said, when you can just distance yourself and move on?
Admirable, no. Politically smart? You betcha.
Who is this aimed at? I don’t want us over there anymore than the troops want to be there. What we’re doing there? Hell yes its honorable. We gave a COUNTRY freedom. Damn, who knew they wouldn’t like it !!!
Nathan, I’m not pretending to care.I do care.Yes our people are brave, nobel, intelligent, and I’m concerned that our strategy is the problem,not our people.Political anything doesn’t mean shit compared to human lives.The only agenda I’m concerned with is an agenda that will stop this killing and make the world safer from terrorism.You believe that staying in Iraq is doing that, I simply disagree with that strategy.It’s neither correct or fair to say that I’m not concerned with our soldiers lives.
Good. It won’t be over for the swiftboat crowd, but it’s probably over for the rest of us.
Rage,But you were just saying how your knowledge of the English language showed you the true light, that there was nothing wrong with what he said. Hmmmm. Guess the Dems don’t feel the same way. BTW, he apologized :-)
Paul, now we get to the crux of this issue, finally.To me the problem is the mistaken ideology that we can “seed” democracy in the Middle East.If Bush and company had done their homework about the peoples history of tribalism, surely they would not think they could bring an agreeable democracy out of their ancient tribal ways.You do not sympathize with your enemy, rather, you empathize with them.
Hank your analogy is rediculous.
What some “ragheads” did was kicked the United States in the shin. “Big smoking hole in the chest?” Come on!
Nathan it could be argued that what we are doing is NOT in fact a noble cause. We invaded a sovereign nation and have broken it probably beyond repair. So we took out ONE bad guy in the process? So what. It has NOT been worth it for us or for Iraq and that is a fact.
By the way Nathan? Your idea that anyone against this war has a “political agenda” is unfair and you should retract that.
Those on “my side” of things could EASILY say that you and everyone in the military are blood thirsty killers with an itchy trigger finger. But I see no one saying that. Moderate your own position accordingly.
Kerry made a mistake. One way or the other, he made a mistake. Now that mistake would be known by only a few hundred people in that crowd. But NO! It is YOUR side that is making it a big hairy deal and exploiting it for political purposes. IT IS YOU who have told “the troops” this, not Kerry.
That said, I’m a little worried about BOTH sides “deifying” the military. We SHOULD guard against that for LOTS of reasons. Not the least of which is that they are in the end only human beings. Assigning them special dispensation or exemption from criticism FORCES them to be held to some sort of super human stadard. And like it or not, that is a standard SOME of them are not up to. It is unfair to them to arbitrarily make them untouchable heroes.
Why is all this important to me? A friend of mine was killed in Iraq. I hadn’t seen him since high school. He was not around here much. He joined the Marines and was a few months from retirement when he was killed by a bomb.
Now they have a nice little memorial of my friend. And folks keep telling his family that he died for some great noble purpose. Well I’m sorry. I can’t see it that way. The zero sum fact is that he is dead. His death changed nothing…..except maybe giving SOME a desire to send MORE people to get killed to somehow “sanctify” his death and make it so “he did not die in vain”. Words. Just words.Dying aint but one thing; bad. Dying for nothing is worse.
Tracy,Not really buying that one. Saddam was “elected” and ruled with death and chaos. Why couldn’t there be a real election?
I think that one of the largest problems is our presence there. It’s a paradox. We can’t leave until they are stable and they will not be stable while we are there.
JRI’m betting the Kurds that are still alive are plenty greatful for your friend’s participation and that of those that deployed.
Its been great guys. Will this blog be here tomorrow with the same folks?
Paul?
Never let it be said that I am not fair. I’m gonna help you out a little.
There is another Paul that posts here. I am thinking MAYBE you are not him. If so, you need to know that at least some of the grief you are getting is because you are being confused with one Paul F Rosell who is the blog idiot and a pure shill. He is TOTALLY without crediblility even among other posters on the right.
IF this is the case, you might want to think about changing your nic. “Paul” hereabouts is synomomous with “batshit crazy idiot”
Though you should know.(And if you ARE Rosell, you will not be able to hide out long.)
That said.
The death of my friend and all the other troops in Iraq has not helped the Kurds one bit.
The Kurds were already largely independent of Saddam many years ago. The no fly zones did that not our invasion. In fact, it could be argued that we are HURTING the Kurds by not letting them continue to go their own way.
So nice try but my friend still died for nothing.
Words from an email I received from a naval officer:
“As for Mr. Kerry, once again the press is stupid and/or bored and decides to insult him by accusing him of insulting people that he wasn’t referring to.
Unfortunately for him to remain popular he’ll have to apologize for a remark that I can not understand how it was misunderstood.
I think us being in Iraq is now doing more harm than good.
While we’re there those that hate us will hate their new government and some forces wont even come to peace talks while US forces sit in Iraq.
We’ve gotten rid of their old leader, we’ve begun rebuilding their country in probably almost every aspect. Its time for the Iraqi to take the reins
Let the UN handle any conflicts there.”
So… once again, gentle readers…
A vote for tiahrt is a vote for the logic of hank, paulie and bush.
If you think bush, and paulie and hankie have the right answers, vote for tiahrt.
If you see that they are totally in denial, they would support bush even if a live boy or a dead girl were found in his bed, and you think we should continue to STAY THE COURSE…
then vote for todd. He’ll do whatever hank and bush tell him to do. If you like their words then I guess toddly is your man.
Read it. Decide it. Vote it.
If you, like more than sixty percent of ALL Americans, think bush has botched the war and the country is headed in the WRONG direction….
Then vote for a change in the course of this country. Vote to stop the madness we keep perpetuating. Vote for Garth McGinn.
Your choice as a voter is as clear as the words on this page.
Here is where I hate that I can’t do links.
I understand John Kerry has been a far better advocate for veterans benefits than most Republicans.
Somebody should show that.
Paul keeps saying we gave them democracy.
Is it any wonder they don’t appreciate what we gave them? Did they fight for it? Did they ask for it?
We gave Iraq their government. Isn’t that what you said, Paul? And in what way do you mean it? Did we put in place the people WE wanted to be there? Or were the people free to choose who the people being elected would be?
Of the hundreds of names on those ballots, how many do you think the Iraqi people knew or had a clue about?
JR = What most libs think
I don’t think we want you people in charge of anything that involves the defense of this country.
Yeah hotlick, we see how well YOU all are doing.
So do more than sixty percent of Americans.
If you like hotlick, vote for toddly.
If you think he is a bushbot LIKE toddly, then vote for Garth.
It really isnt that hard to decide.
And did I mention yesterday that all the nic stealing only happens on the days that nathan is on the blog?
hmmmmm……..
And you are correct JR. The nic stealing is never done to anyone on the right. Only to the posters left of attilla the hun.
So… what does that say?
So much for the culture of personal responsibility.
I think the Dems will retake the House. Rove and crew did a great dirty tricks con job against Harold Ford, Tennessee D candidate for senate, and from the most recent CNN poll, Tennesseans fell for it. Rove once used fraud to steal D party letterhead, and type out totally fraudulent statements made in the name of a D candidate. According to the principles of law, he’s a criminal, but since he didn’t get caught, he technically isn’t.(You’re not a convicted criminal if you get away with it.)
The Whitehouse crew is a gung-ho-for-war kill other people’s kids, draft-dodging cowards. Pro Whitehouse “conservatives” and “neoconservatives”, this is whom you support.
In the Ohio 2004 election, and elsewhere, scientific exit polling revealed Kerry to be the winner. But the ultimate results defied science. Gee, nice that the winner trashes scientific research in many fields, such as environmental science. If you want to return to feudalism, why don’t you go to eastern Europe, where your ancestors came from, and be happy among people of your kind. If you don’t like treating little people fairly, go back home where you’ll be more comfortable. And then people like you won’t be destroying America, turning it into a ruined fascist-feudal state.
Vote for Garth if you want socialized medicine.Commie bastard.
I noticed that too…..
I will HOPE he is better than that.
Sigh ….hotlick?
You don’t make any credibility points by attacking posts without backing up your attack. If you can discredit my posts and provide your own arguement feel free. Otherwise why bother posting at all? It just cements your reputation as a lightweight here.
jr-In 2004, the country chose the man they wanted to defend the country and it wasn’t you people.That hasn’t changed.
Hey Farm girl,
I’ve noticed that the nic stealer only shows up on the days you are here.
Go figure.
Hank
hotlick
Your arguements are so brilliantly meaningless. You have all the respectability of a poorly timed fart.
Blow away.
Gentle people,
After reading today’s paper I’d probably vote for Joy Holt. He position on the various issues are more in line with my thinking.
Unfortuntely, My ballot wnent in the mail Monday.
A vote for Holt would have made a statement and Tiahrt woul still win handily.
Hank
>37%
Hey jr-I feel a fart coming on.Open your mouth.
Hank, not true. Want me to post some bone digs for ya?
Nic stealer appears on many days I am not here.
Put up or shut up time.
For dicklick too.
“Vote for Garth if you want socialized medicine”
Wanna back that up with something dicklick?
Or just let the ass smoke stand?
You can time your farts! Whoa!
Oh, and btw hank…
Ben, JR, and Political Mom are my friends.
The nic stealer seems to love to attack them in particular.
And who are the posters nathan has the most hatred for? I mean besides me?
Ben. JR. Political MOM.
But if you want to defend such low blog behavior as nic stealing… well… like I said…
A vote for todd is a vote for hankie. And paulie. And nic stealer.
Really farm girl, do you actually think my boy is nic stealing? Really?
I don’t think so.
Hank
What about you Ben, do you think my boy is stealing your nic? JR? Political Mom?
Hank
Of course you dont. St. Nathan is your son. Of course you dont.
And it is pretty clear what I think.
The mark of a desperate man. Cant win the real debates? Then nic steal. typical republican
Remember, a vote for todd is a vote for wingers like nic stealer. And a vote for people who think like hankie and paulie.
ksfarmgirl-It’s in today’s paper.”Health care coverage for all must be the benchmark”McGinn = commie bastard = ksfarmgirl = commie bastardette
Since when does
“Health care coverage for all” equal “socialized medicine”?
Please enlighten us dicklick. How does wanting ALL people to be covered equal socialized medicine?
Hotlick = Dicklick = idiot.
A vote for todd is a vote for people like hotlick.
can you post a link, dicklick?
Or are we just supposed to take your word.
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
I want all people to have health care. I’m not willing to have the goverment (the taxpayer) pay for it. McGinn does. That equals commie bastard. What’s with all the dick lick talk?What are you wearing right now?
Hank, kfg – I am reasonably sure Nathan is not the nic thief. nathan and I have our fights but they are face-to-face man-to-man.
Ken (I’m in your choir) in response to http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2006/11/kerry_snow_shou.html#comment-24695832, the GI bill or any kind of free money and grants or anything that assists the needy in getting educated here is anathema to the cons.
They want a military state (modeled after the Israeli military (million men strong!)), privatized basic schooling (even more “basic” than what we have if you know what I mean). You want higher education get it in the military … ALL OF YOU or those of you cannot afford higher education or are unwilling to incur massive amounts of debt to get your higher education.
The “no child left behind act” might as well have been called the “public education privatization act.” It’s purposes are three-fold:1. get profits to private business(nothing new here)2. break another union and further degrade the citizen’s ability to negotiate a decent living wage,
3. and oh yeah get the kids a better education (but guess what, it can’t be done with untrained teachers any better than it can be done with over-taxed teachers in an undisciplined lazy culture, the statistics are bearing this out: Charter schools are no more effective than public schools, but they’re cheap cause they don’t require college-educated staff).
These guys refuse to look at a quality education as the asset to propel this country into the future as progressives do.
There is no more potent investment than to truly educate our populace. In my mind we need to make it free regardless of costs giving it deferential treatment the way the conservatives do wars and military build ups.
The return would be so much greater!
Thanks Ben,
Hank
So dicklick, where does it say that Garth wants the taxpayers to pay for it?
Can you post a link? Or are you a cave man?
Come on, show us your stuff big boy. Post a link to show where McGinn has a “communist” stance.
Are you really the ghost of joseph mccarthy? A commie under every tea cup?
or are you just joe williams?
I calls ‘em as I sees ‘em …
…and since hank supports pedophiles like foley, it figures he also supports someone like ann coulter.
can we did up all her comments calling democrats felons? Looks like she is about to become a democrat.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl...
How, pray tell, would McGinn pay for it? I know of no other way than the taxpayer, but maybe he has a way. (Hoping really, really hard?) Per chance you would allow us to learn just how Mr. McCommiebastard proposes to pay for it. You are the McGinn expert. Per chance you do a link enlightening us all?
Is it me or does this Garth McGinn character look like a bad porn star from the Boogie Nights movie?
http://www.daretwocare.us/ideas.html#healAccess to healthcare is not only a fundamental moral value issue but should also be a fundamental right of every citizen in this country. It will be if I’m elected.
How else do you suppose this “promise” (and that is about as likely to happen as the kids running for class President promising longer lunch hours and less homework) will get accomplished w/out either tax payers paying for it or telling individual businesses how to run their respective companies which of course would be passed onto customers (taxpayers)?
Uh hotlick, YOU made the assertion that he wants taxpayers to foot the bill.
I think that means YOU get to prove the assertion, not me.
Geez, you sound more like williams every day.
Come on. Back up your bullshit boy. It’s not my job to do your research for ya.
Culture of personal responsibility. Back it up or shut up.
Same goes for you killed in action.
You made the assertion.
You prove it.
More ass smoke from the right side of the blog.
He’s a commie. Bill Clinton. John Kerry. 911.
Back it up boys, or let it stand as a monument to pure bullshit.
Lick, what’re you the cons comic relief guy or something.
When I read your posts, I’m reminded of the kibbles N Bits miniature jumping back n forth over the big dog.
You got reasonable folks posting on this board expressing their ideas enlightening each other, and then there’s you…
Paul sorry to have maligned you in my first post. Apparently, there’s another Paul out there (probably Hotlick) spewing crap like a runaway RV sump pump hose.
I appreciate your humility, I only wish it was shared by the people who have us in this protracted hot mess, thats killed and maimed somehundred of thousand of folk and cost us some 300 billion bucks and counting.
So KIA? Hotlick?
where are the links?
I’m not a Kansan and can’t vote in your elections.However in a brief look at this McGinn’s website his promises are totally ridiculous. They stand right along like I said the kid running for class President promising shorter recess or no homework. I wouldn’t and haven’t called him a commie. I’m saying his promise is ridiculous. Let him prove how he is going to make this promise come true. He’s the jackass running (dem donkey pun).”Quality healthcare must be a RIGHT of all citizens of this country, not a privilege. As your Congressman, it will be.”
ksfarmgirl-You must be very young or very naive. It must be paid for one way or the other. It’s not magic. Wishing doesn’t make it so. The truth is that McGinn wants to give health care to everybody. If elected, he will try to make good on that wish. That is why he should not be elected.Libs = giving health care to everybody with somebody elses money
Poor John Kerry. No matter what, he’s gonna get roasted for a really boner statement. I’d venture that we’ve all had instances where what we said came out different than what we meant. Unfortunately for Kerry he’s a politician. For whatever reason, Kerry said what he said and to me,it sounded bad and I’m not even a republican. It amazes me that someone in his organization didn’t get him to apoligize a lot sooner. That doesn’t look so good either. When you add that to some of the other things about Kerry, he’s campaigning with a lot of baggage.
It would be a lot easier to be elected president if Kerry didn’t keep giving republicans sticks to beat him with.
Maybe this will send him to the Democratic Party boneyard along with Al Gore and give Democrats an oportunity to find some fresh blood and some new ideas.
Paying for medical care. Right now we often end up paying for indigent care anyway through our hospital bills etc. And, we do it in the least efficient way – emergency room useage for routine care. The hospital “eats it” and passes it along to us.
Under some sort of “socialized system” we can get back to prevention and early treatment. That is how my “socialized system” (insurance) works with me. I make my regular visits and take my prevention meds and stay reasonably healthy. That is a lot cheaper than getting sick. And, if i do get sick, I run to the DR and get it taken care of. That is MUCH cheaper than letting it fester to an emergency room visit. Unfortunately, the uninsured all too often end up in the ER.
So… I guess that is a NO on the evidence? You just want us to take your opinion as evidence?
heheheh. And I am the one who is naive?
So… NO on the evidence. Thanks.
A vote for toddly is a vote for these guys and their wild and unfounded accusations. When asked for evidence, they say it is self evident.
Sounds like todd…..
“Maybe this will send him to the Democratic Party boneyard”
We can only hope, XXX. We can only hope.
As usual, the Rude Pundit nails the republican culture of blame, er I mean, the culture of personal responsibility.
But you girlie men who hate bad language shouldnt click. Nope. Too bad for you to read. hee hee hee
http://www.rudepundit.blogspot.com/
Dear farm girl,
Talk about bullshit, where in any of my posts do you see that I have defended Foley.
I have merely pointed out the hypocracy of the left when it comes to republican queers.
Especially the hypocracy of leftie lesbos like you!
Show the link proving that poor ol’ horny republican queer is a pedophile. Show the link proving that he has ever had sexual relations with anybody.
I can give you a bunch of links showing where the queer democrats have abused young men, one of them an actual page!
Hypocracy. Iwas pointing out your hypocracy dear girl. Wasn’t defending anyone.
Hank
“Show the link proving that poor ol’ horny republican queer is a pedophile.”
I already posted above hank.
Remember, a vote for todd is a vote for the state of denial.
Like hank denies that foley is a pedophile….
here ya go hankie. It includes a warning of graphic language.
Why?
Because it is a transcript of the emails he sent to young boy pages. It includes the internet email sex he had with a boy while he was on the house floor.
But hank only thinks it’s bad if there was actual, not virtual sex.
If someone has sent those emails to your boy, but didnt actually touch him, you would have been ok with that? You wouldnt have called him a child molester? just a tired old queen?
hee hee hee hee The culture of denial.
It’s only wrong if he touched the boy.
Read the link. See what lenghts hankie and toddie and their like will go to defend a pervert republcian.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/BrianRoss/story?id=2509586
Your link didn’t prove anything of the kind.
Foley’s only crime is being gay while republican.
He’s your kind, quit tying to beat me over the head with him.
Hank
Serious question.What is the polling data in this Tiahrt race.Does McGinn really have a chance?Again, I’m not a Kansan. I’m interested in knowing.
So answer the question Hankie, (and he is one of YOURS a republican, remember?)
If he sent those emails to YOUR BOY you would be ok with it?
As long as there was no physical contact?
keep spining hank. you make ALL the queers look good.
KIA, you keep bleating that you dont live in kansas, but if your OPINION can reach all the way from california to kansas, cant your research too?
Or is it you just cant, or more likely wont do research. Lazy? More personal responsibility?
Or you just want to see if we can do it for you?
If you can post opinions in Kansas, you can do research ABOUT kansas.
tap, tap, tap
still waiting to hear if hankie thinks those emails would be ok if they were sent to his son when he was a kid….
Bitter. Party of one, your table is now ready.
I have tried to keep most of my posts to national and social affairs. I really don’t care enough to waste time in trying to look it up since it isn’t my local district. The passion in which the argument has taken place peaked my interest. However, from the tone of your response I’d take your answer to mean he has no chance.
So… that would be a no on you doing research instead of just spouting opinion with no backup?
Thanks
If you dont care to do your own fact check, why should we care to read your posts?
I guess that would be a Yes on just plain lazy.
here ya go KIA. I just went to google and searched polls + tiahrt.
Look what I found with one push of the search button.
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollPrint.aspz?g=1176850e-4111-45fb-8917-4b88c8059edf
Research. See how easy it is?
Lazy. Pure lazy.
What facts do I need to check in asking for someone to post any polling data is out there?Look it up myself. Nah, don’t care to. Not my election.However it doesn’t take an Einstein or even a Democrat to figure out that the promise I posted from McGinn’s website is totally EMPTY. There is NO WAY your boy can deliver on that.He’d be smarter to say something along the lines of “I believe universal healthcare is the right of every American. As your Congressman I will work and vote for such legislation.” That he can deliver on. This, from his website, he can’t.”Quality healthcare must be a RIGHT of all citizens of this country, not a privilege. As your Congressman, it will be.”
Thank you farmgrl for posting that link.
Guys, I honestly don’t see how you pay for universal health-care without taxes, NOR DO I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
Farmgirl and everyone else who is rooting for democrats…
If we’ve regulated e-voting to the point where the dems can actually win a close race with repubs in “enemy” territory and we do get these majorities in either the house, senate or both that everybody keeps talking about, we’ve got to quit letting “TAX” be defined as a 4 letter word.
We’re going to need them to right the many problems in our country and we cannot be walking on eggshells on this topic.
We must think AS A NATION not as individuals. The selfish me and my money first, culture that has been created by the cons depends on individualistic thinking that stratifies people on every conceivable difference (class, racial, ethnic, religious, etc… you name it). It’s the first thing that must go if we’re to emerge from the conservative abyss we’ve been living in.
After FDR got us out of the Great Depression, before we joined ww II and while the middle-class was congealing there was a sense that we really were one people.
The attitudes were so much different then than now. It was about concepts like sacrifice and caring for your fellow man and a true sense of Patriotism where all men (not just the poor) would CHOOSE to go into the military because they’re proud of what their country stood for!
In addition to that we must create a culture of enlightenment and not bow to present culture of fear that has been cultivated by the cons.
The truth is, even though nobody wants to say it, we will need higher taxes to balance the budget, we will need them imposed in the form of tarriffs on goods WE PURCHASE if we want manufacturing labor (and the life- giving economy-stimulating wages they’ll bring) to return to our shores.
I will say it again for anybody who wants to listen:
Progressive taxes, and liberal policies brought about THE EXISTENCE of the middle class we’re living in (weakened though it may be) and sustained that middle class in every statistical category that folk like to talk about for 40 years.
Conservative policies since the 80’s and more and more over the years have steadily eroded the health of that middle-class (same group of statistics). If you want numbers I will provide them or you can just look it up for yourself. It’s common knowledge.
The NEW DEAL was an experiment that succeeded beyond it’s creators wildest dreams and the conservatives have no corollary tale to tell of how their conservative fiscal policies have benefited the MASSES (they do have a story to tell: big boon for the wealthy and those who were able through hard work, effort, ingenuity and luck to become members of that club, but I’d be hardly fired up about what has been accomplished for 5% of our population at the expense to the other 95%).
Don’t be afraid of the tax scare tactic and don’t “Distance yourself” from it either cause no matter what you or I or anybody thinks, these are facts and aren’t subject to your or my opinion.
Those policies worked and to me comprise the proven method of building, and empowering your middle class.
It will work any time we choose to back there.
Well kia, you cared enough to post this: “Is it me or does this Garth McGinn character look like a bad porn star from the Boogie Nights movie?”
and a link to support it.
but when asked for FACTS and a link.
Feh. You dont care enough.
I think that just about says it all for you and your kind.
Well if you’d clicked on my link they don’t go to his homepage with said photo (and it was a joke, get a sense of humor) it goes to his ideas page.In your works, Lazy. Pure lazy. For not clinking on his link.I don’t agree with his ideas, they do seem to fit into the Democratic plattform which is fine. But he makes these bold blanket promises such as the one I’ve posted repeatedly. That’s why he has no chance as the polling you were kind enough to post for me showed. Thanks again.That’s it for me on this thread unless it gets back on topic.
First off
I’d say it’s an even bet that Nathan is the nic switcher. The targets seem right and the Price’s are notorious for lying on me and my family. It is also possible he is not the nic switcher. In either case, that particular brand of nastiness comes from the RIGHT side around here. It shows desperation which brings us to…
hotlick? you are possibly the most useless poster this forum has ever known. You are new. TRUST me, that is saying something. The only thing that keeps you from the title is that your posts (like your thoughts) are short.
Kia
McGinn’s opponent is sitting congressman Todd Tiahrt. Tiahrt will not even return home to his district to campaign, let alone engage his challenger in debate. Tiahrt proudly represents the very wealthy and basically tells the rest of his constituents to “suck it” Though not in so many words. He refuses to be accountable to his district.Tiahrt has a very deep war chest. McGinn has nothing.
If Tiarht campaigned, he would get caught up in what a failure the GOP congress has been. Then he would lose.
Did I mention Tiahrt ran on term limits…….7 terms ago?
A good arguement for publically financed campaigns.Health care? There really is only one way to look at it. All people should either have health care or you are essentially saying “Only those who can afford it should be healthy and live. Others must suffer or die.”
Come on farm girl, in your link Foley is sending an IM to a former page. OK, one more time. FORMER PAGE.
If he was a congressman, democrat or republican and he was hustling my boy I’d go kick his ass. I’d have to, sending a disgusting message to a former page is not a crime.
A kid has to be at least 16 to be a page. A former page is at least 17. Legal meat darling, no crime. If it was done by a horny ol’ democrat it wouldn’t even be an ethics violation. We wouldn’t even know about it. Hell if a republican was to criticize a democrat for the same things that Foley did the dems would be yelling GAY BASHING! HOMOPHOBES!
No dear, Foley’s only crime was being queer as a republican. And yes, if he made a run on my kid I’d kick his ass. If he made a run on Nathan when he was 16 or 17 I’d probably have to save his ass!
The only reason that the dems in congress have pinned the pedophile crap on poor ol’ Foley is so they can defame him and use him to beat up the republican leadership.
Foley had the good sense to resign when this all came out on Sept 29. Game over.
Hank
Come on farm girl, in your link Foley is sending an IM to a former page. OK, one more time. FORMER PAGE.
If he was a congressman, democrat or republican and he was hustling my boy I’d go kick his ass. I’d have to, sending a disgusting message to a former page is not a crime.
A kid has to be at least 16 to be a page. A former page is at least 17. Legal meat darling, no crime. If it was done by a horny ol’ democrat it wouldn’t even be an ethics violation. We wouldn’t even know about it. Hell if a republican was to criticize a democrat for the same things that Foley did the dems would be yelling GAY BASHING! HOMOPHOBES!
No dear, Foley’s only crime was being queer as a republican. And yes, if he made a run on my kid I’d kick his ass. If he made a run on Nathan when he was 16 or 17 I’d probably have to save his ass!
The only reason that the dems in congress have pinned the pedophile crap on poor ol’ Foley is so they can defame him and use him to beat up the republican leadership.
Foley had the good sense to resign when this all came out on Sept 29. Game over.
Hank
If we were going to pick the one on this BLOG that lies the most, I think it would be you JR. Hands down.
Prove Nathan is the nic stealer or shut up.
I haven’t figured out the nics you paranoid nitwits are talking about, but its not even his style of writing. Furthermore, because of the time difference the last ones were posted after his bedtime.
Hank
“Libs = giving health care to everybody with somebody elses money”
Which would make all insured people libs.
Nathan,
I posted to you a couple months ago that you are the only member of the military I have any contact with and I was disappointed that you were so argumentative. You told me this was a blog and that’s how people conducted themselves on a blog. I read and decided for myself that wasn’t true of everyone. I didn’t post to you again. After all, you are one of those serving my country and that deserves respect no matter what you say.
Then today you posted, “Meanwhile we have the liberals in full cheerleader mode for us to just leave…Don’t pretend like you honestly care about those being killed here. What you care about is your political agend and how the death here can be used to further it.”
I am proud of most of our American soldiers. I’m not sure someone who can say the words you posted deserves respect. I will never have words to tell you how much I care about those being killed in this senseless and needless war. There is no correlation between loving America, caring for our soldiers and supporting this war! All our soldiers need to come home and the death for nothing must end. I have grandsons your age. I have seen wars. This one needs to end now if not sooner.
JR – I will agree with you that it would be nice to see Tiahrt do the respectable thing and debate. I’m sure we could point to a number of incumbents on both sides of the fence who are in the same situation though. Unforunately that is politics in America and it stinks.
“If we were going to pick the one on this BLOG that lies the most, I think it would be you JR. Hands down.”
we? you got a mouse in your pocket? Show where I have EVER been busted in a lie. You can’t. It hasn’t happened.
Jump offa your high horse Hank I did not convict Nathan. I said he could be the nic switcher. On another thread, he appears just after the nic switcher. He tells the switcher to stop it and then uses the opportunity to take his own shot at me. Certainly he doesn’t spare himself any opportunity to attack me for any reason at all. I have posted my respect for his service and asked that he respect those of us who feel it our duty to protect that service. He has in turn called me just about everything but a white woman. He is at least as suspect as ANYONE. I also afforded it might not be him at all.
Kia good on you. I try to teach my son our political traditions. It is difficult to explain to him that Todd Todd Tiahrt thumbs his nose at those traditions and will likely win anyway.
I just heard Keith Olberman’s take on the Kerry thing. Someone should get those words up here. His words describe my feelings on this.
JR,
You have got it all wrong again. Joyce has the high horse. Solid black registered Tennesse Walking horse with a white star on her forehead. 17 hands.
My hores is a Missouri Foxtrotter, only about 15 hands. Good horse, but not as fast or ‘high’ as momma’s.
Hank
Hank, Hank, Hank, I don’t agree with your interpetation of what Kerry implied. If you take an honest look at the statistics, it’s mostly the people who are in the middle and underclass who make up the majority of troops in Iraq (just like Vietnam) it has nothing to do with how smart they are, like I said before, it’s a matter of choice and economics.Kerry never said the troops were stupid, that’s the spin of the wingnuts.
J R,
It’s a very good and logical analysis,
‘Bush owes troops an apology, not KerryOlbermann: Bush ‘appearing to be stupid’ about Kerry’s joke’http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15519404/
Mary,
Middle and ‘underclass’. Interesting choice of words. There are a lot of Viet Nam vets that weren’t in the militay by choice. They were drafted.
Every man and woman in Iraq made a choice to be in the military. Many of them may not want to be in Iraq but I dare say a greater percentage of the Iraq veterans are there because they want to be as compared to the Viet Nam veterans.
And, most of them would be better off financially if they stayed in the private sector. They are as a group smarter and better educated than the average citizen in the private sector their age.
Facts, just the facts mam.
Hank
You want stupid?How about being too stupid to recognize this is a war without borders? A war with an enemy who can’t be defined by imaginary lines drawn in the desert.An enemy that hates our way of life as Americans. Hates the freedom you have to call a President stupid and anything else.And being too stupid to recognize we are finally on the offensive in a war that has been waged against this country for 25+ years. The leftists that want to talk about Iraq are the one’s too stupid to understand the mission and the purpose of the war and the nature of the enemy.
Hank, it pains me to have constantly defend the dems for allegiance to gay rights. Women are women and they have unique issues that are worth fighting for(still only getting 70 cents on the dollar for doing the same work that men do, which doesn’t really seem to be bothering anybody because nobody talks about it (see my post on the widespread corruption and vote fraud. If it’s allowed by those being so treated then they’re giving their consent.), blacks have unique issues having to do with the insidious nature of racism in this country and 300+ years of no participation in old and established money, mexican’s, who can blame them for wanting to come here to make a better life for themselves when that is exactly what will happen if they come here, but I get damned tired of being beaten about the head face over all this gay marriage stuff.
I think democrats have to question if is it worth losing elections to represent this marginal issue that is of almost insignificance (except in getting out the vote of the other side, which is it’s greatest impact).
Quite frankly I don’t believe their struggle belongs besides that of the other groups that I mentioned here.
So I see hank is still defending a republican pedophile and his “crime” is being queer?
heheheh
The famous price family homophobia clearly doesnt extend to republican pedophiles.
And the standard price reply to all evidence? Show them a pipe and they will say…
“This is not a pipe.”
If that is how you think, be sure to vote for tiahrt and CONTINUE the course of bush and foley and, well, you know, the whole HEE HAW criminal gang.
Yes sir, no wonder hank likes toddly so much. He must admire his denial skills.
“I get damned tired of being beaten about the head face over all this gay marriage stuff.”
Yeah dem, well, I remember when southern democrats were tired of being beaten about the head and face (what an insult to the real freedom riders) about race issues too.
I remember when dems were tired of being beaten about the head and face on supporting womens issues too (what an insult to the “iron jawed angels”)
Not a struggle worth fighting for? We dont deserve to be mentioned in the same company as race and women’s issues?
What an insult to Matthew Shephard and Paul Broussard. And Gwen Areujo.
Someday, you might just need our votes. And we might just be staying home that year.
You must work for sebelius. That is her attitude too.
You, demforshit, are the reason I am no longer a democrat.
Not QUITE fair or accurate Hank.
A very large number of the troops in Iraq are guard units. In fact, there are far more guard unit troops in Iraq than in any other conflict the US has engaged in.
With guard troops, you are talking about older folks who joined for the extra income or to learn a skill or to help their state in the event of natural disaster.
Did THEY have any realistic expectation they would be deployed to a combat theatre overseas? Historical precedent would say no. Yet they are now there.
We never hear about enlistment numbers for the guard services. I wonder if this new peril has affected them.
Kia? I am disappointed with your last. You are better than that. Is there a threat from terrorists? Well yes. But fearmongering it is shameless and not productive. Too, the current administrations means of addressing that threat make no sense. You yourself live far closer to our woefully protected southern border than I. Troops of the national guard or regular troops would be far more effective addressing any threat into the country from there not the mideast.
Thanks for the link cosmos. Those are great words. I wish the right could feel the anger and the frustration THEIR president has brought to half of this country.
Demforshit just gave us a PERFECT illustration of why the repukes continue to have success as painting the dems with the coward brush. The cut and run brush.
Waaaa. Waaaaa. Waaaaa. It’s tough to support gay rights? Well then, by all means, cut and run on one of your most loyal demographics.
I guess it must have ALWAYS been easy to support equal rights for blacks, for women, etc. The only reason the dems did it was because it was easy?
Riiiiiiiight.
Gutless. Take the easy way, and to hell with doing what is right. You perfectly illustrate why “cut and run” and the cry baby label get such traction.
Please, stop supporting us, if in fact you ever did.
I wouldnt want you to strain the one muscle of decency you might have ever had.
You make me ashamed of ever being a democrat.
The difference between you and a republican?
About thirty thousand dollars a year.
Oh and by the way, nice pickup of the “blame the gays” meme.
Gays are the reason you lose elections?
PUL-EEEZE.
The DNC is why you lose elections. Cut and Run is why you lose elections. Incompetence is why you lose elections.
But of course, it is so much easier to blame the gays than to accept responsibility for your own shortcomings.
Nice meme. Are you sure you are a dem?
Just a DNC, sebelius kinda bigot I guess.
Tricky turn this one. Gay issues I mean.
Dems wondering if this fight is worth it. The religious right having it as the only bone they have been thrown from an administration that laughs at them as kooks.
I’d rather have the religious right pissed off at the Republicans then have homosexuals sold out by the Democrats. The way to do that is to put the Republicans BACK in the minority. We do not do that by selling out our own first. Make them sell out their own. You grow through inclusion not exclusion. Too, Democrats can exploit BETTER issues the religious right cares about and we are better at like environmental protection. Attack and split THEIR base don’t surrender part of ours. Think on that Dems.
Hey demforshit, if you really are a democrat, you ought to read this at DU.
The title?
“Strength Sells. Show Some.”
Good advise, even for whiners and weaklings like you.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103×243769
But of course, the gays are the reason the democrats lose.
heheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh
Dear farm girl,
I’ll have to admit, at one time I could have had homophobic tendancies. Do you know what those nasty old queers want to do to you? Unnatural! Now for a lesbo, I’m not sure what you kids do to each other but it can’t possibly hurt as much as the gay old men want to do to young hetorosexuals!
But I have reached the age that I no longer seem to threaten young women and I suspect I am no longer attractive to gay old men. The girls are safe and I am no longer phobic.
But tell me dear, please, what is your definition of a pedophile? Now tell me how Foley fits into that definition. Then tell me how every gay democrat in the congress doesn’t.
No dear, I suspect you are just a bitter old lesbo that unlike me, is not aging gracefully. Go ahead and take your bitter animosity out on me, I don’t care. Just don’t expect me to accept your obtuse political points you try to make with your hypocracy when it comes to dems that are gay.
Hank
kfg
Dems is new and a good poster.
Be nice to the newbies. They are not up on everything.
I hope you will forgive me if I introduce you.
Dems? Meet my pal ksfarmgrrl. I have met her in person twice. This is the first you are meeting her as she has been busy.
We are such a familiar forum, we sometimes forget that new posters are not up to speed.
Dems? kfg is an organic farmer with an alternative lifestyle. That’s the pc way to say it. Truth is she is a lesbian organic farmer from western kansas. Now you think on that too and see if you think we need more or less of the support of folks like her in a state like Kansas.
When she has the time you watch the farmgrrl on the issues. You will see the “wingers” on this blog run in absolute terror from her. She is one damned formidable opponent and the fastest typist I have ever met. She also knows the principle fundies and “wingers” here and just where to stick them to make them cry. Watch her for a while and see if we need her on our side.
So demsforshit, you like being on the same side as hankie the homophobe?
Does it feel good to know you are more like him than you are like me?
Look at hankie. Look in a mirror? See any resemblence?
Oh, I forgot one difference. He has integrity and stands for what he stands for. No matter how heinous.
You? Shifting sands. Farts in the wind. A conveeeeenient democrat.
With no heart for principle. Just ease.
Let me make it easy on you to leave…. the party.
The dems need to decide who the phuck they really are.
Maybe THAT would win a few elections?
Naaaawwww. Too difficult.
Damn vichy dems…..
“But tell me dear, please, what is your definition of a pedophile? Now tell me how Foley fits into that definition. Then tell me how every gay democrat in the congress doesn’t.”
Hankie, your closed little mind is already made up. I gave up on facts, evidence and logic with you a long time ago.
God, guns, gays and the gop.
Is there any more to you than that?
What a gentleman you are hank./sarcasm off
Hank do you know that congressman Reynolds is desperately trying to keep his seat by making commercials apologizing for keeping Foleys dirty little secret? That would be the same congressman Reynolds who says he told Speaker of the House Denny Hastert about Foley’s lifestyle some time ago.
See thing is Hank? Driving people into the closet and insisting they stay there can open them up to all sorts of behaviors. Protecting their secrets to keep a congressiona seat does NOT serve to help them.
Hey Dems that is Hank. Think of everything you disagree with and he is likely the personification of it. See how mean and nasty farmgrrl makes him?
Hankie, I did a little research and here is the definition I found.
“Pedophilia, or paedophilia (see spelling differences) is the paraphilia of being sexually attracted primarily or exclusively to prepubescent or peripubescent children. Persons with this attraction are called pedophiles.”
I guess foley fits the bill in spades. No where does it say actual touching had to occur.
Who wants to bet hankie replies with the usual “this is not a pipe” bullshit?
Mr. Kia, they hate our way of life, but you don’t actually believe that’s the cause of all this do you?
Our very real conflict has it’s roots in very real issues. At some level ideology gets in there but more as a rallying point not as the root cause.
At some level it has to do with the establishment of Israel at the expense of the Palestinians who were (and as I understand some are still) living in huts in the desert for 30 years waiting to be relocated back into their former community, and for our support of the Jews financially and militarily. It also has to do with some really manic foreign policy over the years with the arabs there (essentially to ensure that we control the spigot of middle eastern oil).
JR,
Mean?
I’m just trying to get you hypocrits to debate in a logical manner. I asked the farm girl what her definition of a pedophile was she declined to answer. Why? because Foley doesn’t fit the definition.
I asked her to link to any evidence that Foley was a pedophile and she gave me a link to an article that reproduced a disgusting IM he sent to a former page that was probably 18 years old. Pedophile? Give me some proof small man.
Again, I’m not defending the disgustion old pervert I’m merely pointing out your hypocracy. And all you can come back with is homophobe! Please.
When the old lesbo asked me what I would do if Foley was making a run on my child I honestly told her I’d kick his ass. When I asked her for her definition of a pedophile she left the arena.
‘Nuff said.
Unless of course, you’re up to the challenge. Got any proof Foley is a pedophile? Or are you just a liar?
Hank
More fodder for hankie:
“When evaluating who may have pedophilia, psychiatrists apply three criteria spelled out in the DSM-IV. (See “DSM-IV Criteria for Pedophilia,” below.) All three must be present for the diagnosis to be made. Whether or not all three criteria are present, an individual who has had a sexual encounter with a child has committed a crime. Psychiatrists nationwide support the federal and state statutes that define the criminality of any sexual act or molestation involving a child.”
Funny thing is… it was MARK FOLEY who chaired the committee that wrote the laws which are supported by “psychiatrists nationwide”.
Maybe hankie will become a scientologist and attack psychiatry a la tommie cruise.
No matter how ya slice it YOUR BOY FOLEY (he is a republican, and a conservative, so that makes him ALL YOURS) is indeed a pedophile.
Just keep splitting those hairs and living in the state of denial hank.
Yer makin ALL the queers look good.
And dont forget, a vote for toddly is a vote for hankthink. As illustrated right here.
Uh hank, scroll up a bit.
I POSTED the definition of a pedophile. From two sources.
what is YOUR hair splitting definition of how this isnt a pipe?
hehehehehehehe
I have not left the field. I mearly stepped away to do research.
It really is something you should try.
Speaking of research…
Hankie, hows about you post a bone dig where I supported a dem pedophile?
Show me a post where I have supported ANY pedophile, man or woman, gay or straight.
Otherwise, shut the fuck up about gay democrats.
Gay does not equal pedophile. Except in your toxic world. The world of todd tiahrt.
Want me to post (AGAIN) the study that shows most acts of child molesting are committed by straight men?
You wouldnt be feeling a little guilty, now would ya?
And I’m not the biblical expert that you or nathan are, but I’m pretty sure jesus doesnt approve of pedophiles. Or child molestation.
So why no constitutional amendment on child molesters?
The queers were just too important?
heheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh
jesus wept.
JR,
Mean?
I’m just trying to get you hypocrits to debate in a logical manner. I asked the farm girl what her definition of a pedophile was she declined to answer. Why? because Foley doesn’t fit the definition.
I asked her to link to any evidence that Foley was a pedophile and she gave me a link to an article that reproduced a disgusting IM he sent to a former page that was probably 18 years old. Pedophile? Give me some proof small man.
Again, I’m not defending the disgustion old pervert I’m merely pointing out your hypocracy. And all you can come back with is homophobe! Please.
When the old lesbo asked me what I would do if Foley was making a run on my child I honestly told her I’d kick his ass. When I asked her for her definition of a pedophile she left the arena.
‘Nuff said.
Unless of course, you’re up to the challenge. Got any proof Foley is a pedophile? Or are you just a liar?
Hank
I don’t disagree with you on the border issue JR.I will however say that if we are talking about the southern border without addressing the northern as well (as a terror threat) it’s just racism plain and simple to me.
Dear farm girl,
Sorry, our posts passed each other through the night.
…prepubescent or peripubescent children…”I guess foley fits the bill in spades. No where does it say actual touching had to occur.”
Really dear girl? Since when does a postpubescnt page fit your definition? Since when does the 18 year old former page that you linked to fit yor definition?
Being sexually attracted to a 16 year old page is not pedophilia, by yor definition.
You’re a hypocrit.
I rest my case.
Hank
In the very first post of this thread, ddub predicted hankie and his ilk’s response.
“And no doubt there will be the standard wingers on this board trying to claim, yet again, that this will rally the base and propel them to victory. Unfortunately, this is the reality: the right-wing base already is mobilized, THEY ARE ALWAYS MOBILIZED. There is nothing the Republican Party could do to alienate these people – they would vote Republican even if it came out that Republicans were protecting gay pedophiles in Congress.”
Hankie, you support Mark Foley and soon to be convicted of voting fraud, the felon formerly known as Ann Coulter. You are also known to support the little ayatollah, terry fox. And we all know about the big crush you have on toddly.
Didnt someone say once that we are known by the company we keep.
We know you hank. We know you.
Hank supports republicans. No matter what.
No matter if a live boy or a dead girl or a hammered kitten is found in their bed, Hank stands by his man. As long as he is a republican man.
heheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh
Splitting hairs again hank?
There were emails to sixteen year olds as well.
But of course, no matter what the definition, no matter how clear the disgrace, no matter how obvious the offense, any evidence provided is met with “this is not a pipe”.
I told ya that is what he would do.
And he wonders why no one wants to play with him. He has to buy lunch to get friends.
like the little kid who’s mom had to tie a pork chop around his neck to get the dog to play with the kid.
you should join meadowpoop over at lonely blog….
“And all you can come back with is homophobe! Please”
I guess if the jackboot fits hank…
All you homophobes out there, toddly is your guy!!!
Farmgirl calm down, if you aren’t a dem than what are you?
Also, parties have platforms but people are people. We don’t all fit into some neatly prescribed package. I gave a very clear view of the minority groups that I’ll fight one of which that I belong too.
Now, I definitely wouldn’t support some kind of amendment to ban gay marriage at the federal level.
It’s not important enough to merit that kind of treatment and since when is the constitution invoked to limit versus extend rights?
I guess I’m ambivalent about it. If one my kids comes out of the closet I’d deal with it in a more direct way.
Now Farmgirl if you want to get some points with me, maybe change my mind, and enlighten other folks who might be checking out this board, kill the insults and explain why I should jump on the bandwagon.
Sad girl, really sad.
No where can any of my remarks be construed as supporting Foley. No where. You have been reduced to delusional lies.
I have spoken of him with only disgust and contempt. He resigned in disgrace, game over.
No where can you ever find a post where I have supported Terry Fox in the past. No where. Another delusional lie.
Its not even fun poking at you any more, you’re too easy girl.
Hank
I already said it. It is the right thing to do. But if you are looking for the easy road instead of the high road, that comment is easy to miss.
You belong to one of those groups?Let me guess. You are black?
Of course, our struggle could never compare to the sanctity of yours. I saw how that community pressured Donald Betts. I heard the testimony in Topeka from the black minister who was INSULTED that our struggle be equated to his.
I’ve heard that at Washington Days so many times I could puke. I left the party hafter the third Washington Days Bigotry Caucus meeting.
And dont lecture me on women’s rights either. I am old enough to remember the “lavendar menace”. From Betty and Bella no less? Yes, the lesbian struggle is certainly not part of the women’s rights struggle.
I dont want you on my bandwagon. I guess you missed the “no bigots allowed” sign.
Why dont you tell us again why the dems shouldnt support this “insignificant issue”?
Oh, that’s right, you already did.
“Waaaa, it’s too hard to support equal rights for ALL americans. Waaaaaa”
I believe that was your reasoning, and that our struggle was not as noble as your struggle?
Again, jesus wept.
Cut and run fits some dems I guess.
And btw, I dont see my comments as insults. I see them as the truth about your posts. And probably you and your party.
Why are you insulted by a good hard look at the truth?
JR, thanks for the warning, but at this point I’m already roadkill on this one at least…
I’ve digging her posts, didn’t mean to touch a nerve, but even if she never forgives me, I think on 95% of the issues we’re on the same page.
Dear aDemForSure,
You might as well give up on KFG.
She was calling me a homophobe the very first time she responded to one of my posts.
You can logically lay out a respectful and reasoned argument and she responds with irrational crap.
I’m afraid she’s been to the JR school of public discourse.
Hank
“Now Farmgirl if you want to get some points with me, maybe change my mind”
hehehehehe ROFLMQAO!!!!!!!
read my posts to hank. I gave up trying to open minds that are already shut tight.
When you come down from mount olympus, maybe you can get a taste of the real world.
As it is…. continue with your “noble” struggles.
but dont expect us to wait for you or to support your cut and run crowd anytime soon.
Hank?
I CAN find a post where you called Denny Hastert innocent. Shall I go do that or would you like to admit that he was complicit in covering up Mark Foley?
I wonder if the Mark Foley issue is part of why Tiahrt is running a stealth campaign. Todd Tiahrt worked closely with Mark Foley. He MUST have known something about his friends lifestyle.
Dems? Watch and learn. YOU are the one to earn the points here. Trust me.
anything that disagrees with hankie’s narrow view of the world = irrational crap.
You fit right in with hankie demforshit.
You must feel so comfortable there.
Who says bipartisanship doesnt live?
Even demforshit and hank the republican can agree on one thing.
Keep those damn queers quiet and in their place!
The one thing both the DNC and the RNC can agree on.
“We’ll take the irish but we dont want the queers” to paraphrase Blazing Saddles.
I’ll let you two chat about all the bigotry you have in common.
Hank,
Although we disagree on many points, I’ve always thought you deserved the respect I would give to those I agree with. But your use of racist and bigotted terms has sunk you to an all-time low. I’m truly disappointed. Not that you care about my or anyone else’s opinion.
I wonder what Barbara Jordan would think of demforshit’s view of what groups are worth fighting for and which groups are not.
She refused to stand idly by while the constitution was raped.
And now she’s gone and the vichy dems are in control.
I knew Barbara. I was friends with Barbara. And vichy dem, you damn sure are no Barbara Jordan.
Hank, don’t make things worse, huh? I got like .000001 things in common with you. We both breath air and eat ’sbout it.
Farmgirl what is “ROFLMQAO!!!!!!!”
Also, what is your point of posting here if you’re not trying to help people understand where you’re coming from?
You’re not the only one on here. If you Blog and comment responsibly, you could be changing a hundred lives.
Do therapy elsewhere if that is what this is for you (Do what you want, I’m just saying, the honey vinegar thing, that’s reality, sometimes it’s worth it to take the time and explain your point cause if you slip on a banana or a patch of ice and become like one a them there vegetables you’re growing it’d be nice that your thoughts the repeatable ones hang around and maybe change some lives.
I agree that there are a lot of closed minds but they’re not all closed.
So tell me JR,
What do you think Hastert is guilty of? And how does my opinion of Hastert’s inocence mean I am defending Foley?
There is no proof that Hastert had any knowledge of Foley’s disgusting behaviour.
Idiot.
Hank
Just like a freeper to take up the “angry woman” meme and the “crazy woman” meme.
“Do therapy elsewhere if that is what this is for you”
No, it isnt therapy. I think the truth just stings bigots and cowards like you.
I’m not here to change any minds in kansas. That would be like asking bush to change course in iraq.
Aint gonna happen.
But I sure think YOU changed a few minds about voting for democrats if YOU represent the party.
And unfortunately, in Kansas, you DO represent the sebelius democrats.
Not a very pretty picture. No wonder your party has to keep pushing that rock up the hill.
They get to the top, find out they are mearly fake republicans, and then the rock rolls over them and right back down the real republican hill.
Again, the difference between you and Hank?
About fifty thousand dollars a year if you count his wife’s income.
Actually RD,
I do care about your opinion. I am at a loss as to what racist remark you might be referring to.
Bigot? Pretty strong name to call someone, care to tell me why you think I’m a bigot?
Hank
If the kansas democrats can run off a thirty year yellow dog like me, they must be making room for all those repukes who have taken over the party.
Maybe that is why governor leadership uses the word “independent” in her adds, and never, ever, NEVER mentions she is a democrat.
She’s probably ashamed of the kansas democrats too. Look at her running buddies.
You fit right in.
Probably more than that girl, according to JR, I’m rich!
Hank
Careful RD, he’s leading you right down the “this is not a pipe” road.
No matter what evidence you present, it wont suit hankie.
He’ll twist it and distort it until dammit, that pipe really doesnt look like a pipe.
I’ve yet to see him change an opinion on this blog. Especially his own.
Dont think a reasoned arguement will do it. You just saw an example of his reasoned arguements.
Here’s a little reminder of the blatent hypocracy of the dems from Gina Cobb:
October 14, 2006
Gerry Studds Dies: A Reminder of a Democratic Underage Sex Scandal Worse Than Foley
Events have conspired to bring America a reminder of a Democratic gay Congressional sex scandal worse than anything Mark Foley is alleged to have done.
Former Democratic Congressman Gerry Studds, who was censured by Congress in 1983 for having sexual relations with a 17-year old male Congressional page who was not of the age of legal consent — and was not forced by Democrats to resign, but instead allowed to remain in Congress for another 13 years and given another committee to chair! — has just died of a blood clot at the age of 69.
In recent weeks, many have pointed out the stark contrast between how shamelessly Democrats treated misconduct from among their own ranks by Democratic Congressman Studds, on one hand, and the rabid torches-and-pitchforks treatment they have given to Republican Congressman Mark Foley and the current Republican speaker of the house, Dennis Hastert.
The contrast is indeed stark; it’s evidence of transparent political opportunism at its worst. The difference in treatment should be embarrassing. It is certainly a reminder that if Congress is a “swamp” that needs draining, as Democratic Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi has recently claimed, Democrats are not exactly the first party to trust to get the job done! If Mark Foley were treated the way Studds was treated by Democrats, he’d still be in Congress, any attacks on him would be dismissed as homophobic, and he’d be in line to be appointed by Democrats to chair committees.
Want to take bets on who or what will be blamed by for Studds’ sudden death, coming less than a month before a Congressional election in which the Democrats have been attempting to capitalize on the Foley flap? Will it be (a) inevitable human mortality; (b) God’s sense of humor; or (c) that “evil” and omnipotent Republican mastermind, Karl Rove?
Take note of the way that the mainstream media who have just spent weeks villifying Mark Foley will now print puff pieces on Gerry Studds applauding him as “the first openly gay Congressman” (he paved the way for Foley!) while touching only lightly, or even charitably, on Studds’ improper relationship with an underage page. Is there a reason? Sure there is. It’s not a good reason, but here it is: One Congressman had an “R” after his name; the other a “D.”
__________________________
I’m still waiting girl, any evidence at all that Foley fits your definition?
Hank
If you aren’t here to change minds then again I ask you what are you here for?
Perhaps this is a social club for you, a way to interact, with familiar friends …and enemies…
It’s cool. Great insight in that Blog you recommended. Press sides with those on offense who are sure about their views.
That was my point precisely on the whole taxes thing in my post above(http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2006/11/kerry_snow_shou.html#comment-24707625)
Farm girl, I think you’re a bit jaded, but I love your ideas and I thanks for your incisiveness and see your P.O.V. (even through the deluge of spit and urine and stuff).
S’okay I can take it.
I just hope you understand that people can and do change. When it happens it’s a miracle because I think it is rare.
Hastert is a liar Hank and you know it.
HE knew what Foley was. Probably Tiahrt knew too. The whole right wing agenda was hanging onto seats and the truth be damned.
You call me an idiot?
Back off Hank or I will destroy you far more than you do yourself.
Come on Phelps you can just post under your own name.
Hank is dead on on this one. While Foley’s actions are dispicable, and should require him resigning, the actions of the democrats on the Gerry Studds case is nothing short of inexcusable.
What people don’t seem to realize is both parties are populated by lifetime politicians, whose only duty is to get reelected. It’s time to throw tyhe whole lot out and force elections that have a chance of electing fresh blood throughout the whole beltway.
Is this blog still alive?
Dear JR,
“Hastert is a liar Hank and you know it.”
Bullshit, I know nothing of the kind. And neither do you. Hastert is a milk toast that the republicans put in place for the very reason that he is weak. He is the leader because the republicans caved to the democrats.
Prior to September of this year any thing he would have done to Foley would have brought cries of gay bashing from the democrats.
“HE knew what Foley was.”
Bullshit. It’s been over a month now since Foley resigned in disgrace and you still don’t know “what Foley was”. He was a disgusting old gay pervert. Nothing more. No evidence of anything more. Everytime you call him a pedophile you are a liar.
“Probably Tiahrt knew too.”
Bullshit again. Absolutely no indication Tiahrt knew anything about Foley’s disgusting communications with pages. None, nada. He probably knew that Foley was gay, but so what.”The whole right wing agenda was hanging onto seats and the truth be damned.”
Bullshit again, you’re a liar. When you say something that you think is true (with good reason) that turns out to be wrong, that doesn’t make you a liar. When you say something that you have no way of knowing is the truth or not just to make a point, you are a liar. You are a liar even if it does turn out to be the truth later. You are a liar because you were lying when you said it.
Three times in your last post you lied. Three times.
“You call me an idiot?”
I apologize for calling you an idiot. I was merely giving you the benefit of the doubt. You sir, are not an idiot, you’re a calculated liar.
“Back off Hank or I will destroy you far more than you do yourself.”
I would recommend that you email me in private and explain this statement. You bragged once in a post that you thought you could whip me, I let it slide then. I’ve been whipped before, and I don’t intend to ever let it happen again.I fear that this last statement of yours (unless it’s another lie) might cause a little friction between us. It’s an interesting debating style, but I don’t plan on “backing off” from the BLOG bully. Again, please email me in private, we need to talk.
I still love ya JR, but I’m afraid you’re melting down.
Hank
Is it a crime being gay AND republican? Can anyone name the statute that prohibits that? Or, is this the next Constitutional Amendment?
Can it with the “I love ya” crap Price. It’s old, trite, and frankly makes me sick to my stomach.
Liar? You levelled that charge earlier. Then you didn’t back it up. Then you levelled it again.
FACT: Congressman Reynolds is making commercials apologizing to his constituents for hiding his knowledge of the child solicitor Mark Foley.
FACT: Reynolds says he notified Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert last year about his concerns as to Mark Foley.
FACT: Todd Tiahrt and Mark Foley belonged to and chaired the board of an arch conservative organization dedicated to getting and keeping seats in the congress Republican.
FACT: Todd Tiahrt has had almost no comment at all as to his knowledge of the not so secret life of child solicitor Mark Foley. Could this be why Tiahrt is running a stealth campaign? The less said the better?
Again, earlier upthread you called me the biggest liar on the blog. But you cite not one instance where you or anyone has busted me in a lie. Now you either back it up or you take it back and back off. We are past playing around here.
Dearest JR,
This is the commercial by Reynolds
Now you either back it up or you take it back and back off. We are past playing around here.
that you refer to, it’s the only one I am aware of.
http://wethe.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=38
“FACT: Congressman Reynolds is making commercials apologizing to his constituents for hiding his knowledge of the child solicitor Mark Foley.”
Wrong. In his commercial he admits to no knowledge of Mark Foley being a child molester. Quote from the ad:
“I’m disapointed I didn’t catch his lies before. For that I’m sorry”
He’s apologizing for not making Foley resign earlier. The very “FACT” you bring to the discussion is a lie. Don’t beleive me, watch the commercial.
“FACT: Reynolds says he notified Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert last year about his concerns as to Mark Foley.”
Yes he did. He informed Hastert that he had knowledge of an “odd” email to a page. He admitted to no knowledge of its content. This does not prove that Hastert knew of expicit sexual content. Furthermore, when you read the email its just wierd, creepy. Its innapropriate, but its not sexually explicit.
“FACT: Todd Tiahrt and Mark Foley belonged to and chaired the board of an arch conservative organization dedicated to getting and keeping seats in the congress Republican.”
Ooooh! “arch conservative” Scarey! Todd and Mark are doing political stuff! Oooh! So what? Whats your point? What do you think Tiahrt is doing in congress, playing tiddly winks?
“FACT: Todd Tiahrt has had almost no comment at all as to his knowledge of the not so secret life of child solicitor Mark Foley. Could this be why Tiahrt is running a stealth campaign? The less said the better?”
So tell me again, where can I find the evidence that Tiahrt knew that Mark Foley was soliciting children? Especially since you have no evidence that Mark Foley is any thing more than a disgustion old queer.
“Again, earlier upthread you called me the biggest liar on the blog.”
The very “FACTS” that you bring to the discussion prove you are a liar. You’ve done my work for me.
“But you cite not one instance where you or anyone has busted me in a lie.”
Consider yourself busted! Again!
“Now you either back it up or you take it back and back off. We are past playing around here.”
Nah dear, I’m still playing around! And I’ve just begun! But if you threate to “destroy” me again I’ll stop playing with you. Instead of considering you the BLOG jester I may have to upgrade you to “unstable”.
I truly believe you are melting down.
Hank
Keep spinning Hank.
Keep spinning that foley isnt a pedophile. I mean who are we gonna believe, you or our lyin’ eyes?
And Hastert isnt a liar? He, like sargent shultz, “knew nothing”? heheheh Even the republican leadership doesnt believe THAT!
And concerning studds, his affair was with someone OLDER than the boys foley was pursuing. So if foley isnt a ped, neither is gerry by your definition.
And might I add, the MAN he had an affair with stood beside studds at the microphone and defended him and their relationship.
Did you see any of foley’s VICTIMS standing beside him?
And when studds was returned to office, he did it ONLY with democrat votes? NO republicans voted for him? ONLY dems vote in Massechusetts? heheheheheheheheheh
We are amused Hank. Please try again. It must just SUCK to be you these days.
Deep Inhale. Yep, the smell of hank desperation in the morning.
Five.More.Days
This should be under dubious headlines but….
NEWS FLASH!! Fifty first state admitted to the Union. It will be called THE STATE OF DENIAL.
Hank and the Price family put up goddard house for sale and announce plans to move immediately.
“We’ve been visiting there for a long time. It will be a relief to join my republican breatheran full time in the new state of denial.”
Price,
You have not caught me in any lie. You are just exposing that Reynolds, Hastert and crew cannot keep their stories straigt.
I note you called me the “blogs biggest liar” BEFORE the post you quote. Where are your ATTEMPTS to prove me a liar before that post? Back it up.If I wanted to take the time, I could bonedig you on a dozen lies or false/misinformed assertions. I don’t need to. Your record here is well known and any newer posters need only wait a short while for you prove me right.It’s not like I really care what you think. I’ll just not let such as you attack my credibility.
I hope you read Keith Olbermans commentary Mr.Price. Every single word of it and the sentiment behind it expresses my feelings as to you.
Threats? Hardly. I just know a few things I’ll keep to myself for now. It feels good knowing I have more class than you.
Dearest ksfarmgrrl,
“Keep spinning Hank.”
I bring facts to the discussion and you bring your irrational hate of anything republican. Where are your links? What facts to you bring?
“Keep spinning that foley isnt a pedophile. I mean who are we gonna believe, you or our lyin’ eyes?”
Facts dear! Where are the little prepubescent children in this scandal! Foley is disgusting, but not a pedophile.
“And Hastert isnt a liar? He, like sargent shultz, “knew nothing”? heheheh Even the republican leadership doesnt believe THAT!”
No facts dear. Nothing but unfounded charges by the hypocritial democrats.
“And concerning studds, his affair was with someone OLDER than the boys foley was pursuing. So if foley isnt a ped, neither is gerry by your definition.”
Not so dear. The boy Studds was with was a current, 17 year old page. Foley was sending IMs to 17 year old and older former pages. Studds actually had sex with this boy. The democrats embraced Studds. I’ve never accused Studds of being a pedophile. He was just a queer sexual predator that should have been removed from congress since he didn’t resign.
“And might I add, the MAN he had an affair with stood beside studds at the microphone and defended him and their relationship.”
So what? The former pages that Foley was posting IMs to were conducting consentual ongoing discussions with him. Doesn’t make it right.
“Did you see any of foley’s VICTIMS standing beside him?”
They weren’t victims dear until the democrats made their communications public for political gain. Like Studd’s little page lover, they were consentual participants.
“And when studds was returned to office, he did it ONLY with democrat votes? NO republicans voted for him? ONLY dems vote in Massechusetts? heheheheheheheheheh”
Again, so what? I’m not surprised by anything that the Mass. voters do. Ted Kennedy killed a campaign worker, back in office. Barney Franks allowed his gay lover to run a male prostitution ring out of his basement, back in office. Just because Mass. allows perverts and killers to go to congress for themdoesn’t make anything right. I suspect they send them to Washington just to prtect their women and children by getting them out of the state!
“We are amused Hank. Please try again.”
That’s why I’m here, for your amusement!
“It must just SUCK to be you these days.”
Sorry dear, wrong again.
“Deep Inhale. Yep, the smell of hank desperation in the morning.”
Five.More.Days”
Facts dear, please bring some to the discussion next time. Responding to your diatribes is too easy to amuse me anymore.
I still love ya,
Hank
I think demforshit is really a freeper troll.
That spit and urine you speak of?
Those are YOUR names for convictions and passion.
Something vichy dems know nothing about. Maybe if you had a little, you wouldnt keep getting your ASS handed to you in presidential elections. Maybe the cut and run label wouldnt stick.
Vichy dems. So polite. So quiet. So unsucessful.
And do you think your comment about “their struggle shouldnt even be mentioned with the ones above” changed any hearts and minds?
Why do you come here?
To make sure all us rowdy queers stay in the back of the bus? I guess you will tell us when we will finally be allowed to speak up? When hell freezes over? When monkey’s fly?
I guess that is how you won your civil rights? By being quiet and not making any waves. heheheheheh
Yessa massa. We be gwine to the back of the bus right now so we dont make any of you vichy dems uncomfortable.
We will stay on the reservation and be quiet while you lose another shot at the presidency.
Spit and urine indeed. Give me that any day over your “quietly bending over” strategy.
I see how well it’s worked for you.
Oh and hank, remember, it was REPUBLICANS that went to Brian Ross of ABC news to break this story.
Not the democrats.
Facts hank, facts.
Keep trying. foley was having internet sex with 16 year old boys too. While he was on the house floor.
Facts Hank, facts.
Sorry if I dont amuse you, but I am still laughing my queer ass off at your desperation.
five.more.days.
Hank can spin all he likes. So can George, Dick, and Don (’Mark, Don, and Mel–We’re an American Band’!); it doesn’t matter.
Republicans have dug themselves a hole and are going DOWN. The American people have seen, weighed, and judged. These last-second atmospherics are Rove’s Hail Mary, and they don’t mean a thing.
Now that the U.S., on the orders of Moqtada al Sadr, has cut and run from a kidnapped American solider, the die is cast.
“Sihran sihran Oswald and Ray had the best solution for degernate liberals.”
Party of family values and morals. Christian party.
Actually, GOP=Nazi-redux. Distraction, hate, incompetence. The 3 hallmarks of Republican leadership. And their followers? ‘People’ like Horst Wessel (I use the term ‘people’ loosely when speaking of trash like Horst) are a cancer on our society. Horst, take you 65 IQ to Rush, tune in, turn on, and drop out, you fucking pathetic piece of monkey shit. God knows you can’t think for yourself. I would love to encounter some of you big talking fascist fanatics in public sometime. Let’s just say, it would not be *pretty.* Cocksuckers.
Dearest ksfarmgrrl,
“Keep spinning Hank.”
I bring facts to the discussion and you bring your irrational hate of anything republican. Where are your links? What facts to you bring?
“Keep spinning that foley isnt a pedophile. I mean who are we gonna believe, you or our lyin’ eyes?”
Facts dear! Where are the little prepubescent children in this scandal! Foley is disgusting, but not a pedophile.
“And Hastert isnt a liar? He, like sargent shultz, “knew nothing”? heheheh Even the republican leadership doesnt believe THAT!”
No facts dear. Nothing but unfounded charges by the hypocritial democrats.
“And concerning studds, his affair was with someone OLDER than the boys foley was pursuing. So if foley isnt a ped, neither is gerry by your definition.”
Not so dear. The boy Studds was with was a current, 17 year old page. Foley was sending IMs to 17 year old and older former pages. Studds actually had sex with this boy. The democrats embraced Studds. I’ve never accused Studds of being a pedophile. He was just a queer sexual predator that should have been removed from congress since he didn’t resign.
“And might I add, the MAN he had an affair with stood beside studds at the microphone and defended him and their relationship.”
So what? The former pages that Foley was posting IMs to were conducting consentual ongoing discussions with him. Doesn’t make it right.
“Did you see any of foley’s VICTIMS standing beside him?”
They weren’t victims dear until the democrats made their communications public for political gain. Like Studd’s little page lover, they were consentual participants.
“And when studds was returned to office, he did it ONLY with democrat votes? NO republicans voted for him? ONLY dems vote in Massechusetts? heheheheheheheheheh”
Again, so what? I’m not surprised by anything that the Mass. voters do. Ted Kennedy killed a campaign worker, back in office. Barney Franks allowed his gay lover to run a male prostitution ring out of his basement, back in office. Just because Mass. allows perverts and killers to go to congress for themdoesn’t make anything right. I suspect they send them to Washington just to prtect their women and children by getting them out of the state!
“We are amused Hank. Please try again.”
That’s why I’m here, for your amusement!
“It must just SUCK to be you these days.”
Sorry dear, wrong again.
“Deep Inhale. Yep, the smell of hank desperation in the morning.”
Five.More.Days”
Facts dear, please bring some to the discussion next time. Responding to your diatribes is too easy to amuse me anymore.
I still love ya,
Hank
Five more days.
Then let the subpeonas begin . . .
Karma is such a wench.
Horst, isn’t there a genocide somewhere that needs your assistance?
Just trying to be helpful.
let’s review shall we?
rug muncher is crusaderx, I mean crusader will, I mean will’s favorite gay baiting term.
Horst wessel as will.
Now that fits the mo too.
And next to the price boys, he is the most homophobic person on the blog.
Shades of fred phelps? Running from his own desire for gay sex?
Big time anti-gay marriage, big time catholic, big time hater of women’s right to choose?
I would think the WE could root this guy out if they wanted to.
But apparantly it generates hits?
Come on WE. If you can pull of making anyone think values boy is a real journalist, surely you can stop big bad will.
What a great lawyer he is gonna make. Shades of philllllll.
I think I am too tired or I just can’t make sense out of anything KFG says anymore…
farm girl, You’re just dead set on going for the jugular and digging to see how much you can insult me from your computer screen.
I know it’s been tough, (I do know something of discrimination), and based upon some of the things you’ve mentioned it’s probably been tough for a long time when this country was a lot less tolerant than it is now, but you talked to me about taking a high road a few posts ago that you’re not even on in any real sense.
Where does the ranting get you, besides feeling smug about yourself and how clever a writer you are and boy did you put old menial demforshit in his corner or whatever. I’m sure it gives you immense satisfaction but I guarantee someone of your demeanor is not on the forefront of your own movement.
You talked about civil rights, but if the people on the forefront of that movement didn’t act with dignity and resolve, they’d've been shot dead. You’re taking on the role of the enemy in that conflict (at least in your demeanor, obviously not in your stance).
Could you see Martin Luther King or Mahatma Ghandi berating their opponents or trying to make them cry or whatever it is you think you’re doing.
Even if you’re right, you’re wrong and the only person any of this good for is you and others who are entertained by these kind of antics. In the end, your impact is muted.
Please stop doing that!I can tell you’re a great person with a lot of wisdom and good things to share.
We do all have a role to play. I guess my question is what will your roll be? Do you want to be a leader of it in some way or a clown, caricature, whatever?
KFG, Horst Wessel has a track record here as a racist Nazi asshole (literally–he’ll go where even Ian won’t). I can post some links if you want–but I’d rather not.
I don’t know about ‘rug muncher’–hmmm. . .for some reason, I’m hungry. . . :-)
It’s not me telling one of the democrats’ most loyal constituent groups to go sit in the back of the bus.
I am sure MLK or Ghandi or Barbara Jordan would have had a different way of saying it, but the message would have been the same. We refuse to sit in the back of the bus anymore. We refuse to obey your orders not to make salt.
We refuse to support the democrats as long as they have an attitude like yours.
Tell me again why YOU are here? To put the queers in their place?
And if you know so much about discrimination, why do you relegate another group to back of the bus, “we are ashamed of you” status?
I guess everyone needs to feel superior to someone.
Even other minorities feel superior to the queers.
You should be so proud of yourself.
Be civil all you want. I see how well it’s working. And your message came through loud and clear.
Sorry, but I hate the back of the bus.
ADemForSure, I sense your confusion, a little googling might help you understand.
Start with these:
“Dennis McKinney” “marriage amendment”
“Jan Pauls” “marriage amendment”
“Bill clinton” “defense of marriage act”
“Fannie Lou Hamer” “two seats”
…and since you must be oh so proud of your words, you wont mind a little repost of your greatest hits?
“Hank, it pains me to have constantly defend the dems for allegiance to gay rights.”snip
“I get damned tired of being beaten about the head face over all this gay marriage stuff.”
snip
“I think democrats have to question if is it worth losing elections to represent this marginal issue that is of almost insignificance
(except in getting out the vote of the other side, which is it’s greatest impact).”
AND you must be especially proud of this one?
“Quite frankly I don’t believe their struggle belongs besides that of the other groups that I mentioned here.”
Who’s hearts and minds did you change with that little gem?
Tell us all why YOU are here?
You offered to tell us which minority group you claim. Please. Tell us. Let’s see how members of your own group feel about that vichy attitude.
Oh ya. You probably cant hear me talking from my seat at the back of the bus.
Well gentle people,
I regret to say that I’m going to secure from the drill until after the election. If the republicans are still in charge I promise to be gracious in victory and well, if hell freezes over, I’ll come back and take my whuppin like a man.
I’ve grown weary of trying to talk sense to the left and I can no longer make any sense of their replies. The best arugument I can get from the farm girl is that I’m a homophobe. The best I can get from JR is a string of self-serving lies and a veiled threat that he knows information that can destroy me. He has too much class to use it on me now, but that doesn’t stop him from blackmailing me with it to ‘backoff’.
Weary I am. See ya all next week.
Hank
buh-bye
Hey dems, just in case you need a little reminder of what REAL dems stand for, here is the full video of MLK’s “I have a dream” speech.
Can you stand it?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385×1821
Farm girl, I don’t know about what those great leaders would say. You might be surprised and disheartened by what they would say if you could know.
But even if their convictions didn’t gel with yours, they were great steady folk who accomplished great things for their people.
As for my thoughts, these aren’t things I have great conviction over. Look at what I have talked about at length in other posts to understand my convictions.
Look at what I did say…
“Now, I definitely wouldn’t support some kind of amendment to ban gay marriage at the federal level.
It’s not important enough to merit that kind of treatment and since when is the constitution invoked to limit versus extend rights?”
I believe this to be true, because you are a person (not 3/5ths of a person) you have rights, you cannot be discriminated against, anyone who perpetrates a crime against you for your sexual-orientation will be punished more severely than if it were for some other reasons, you cannot be expelled from the military, etc… Because I said that in the negative it sounds like I might be leaning that way, but that is not the case, I really do believe in Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness for everyone and if that would make you happy (although marriage makes many of us miserable) then go for it, but it should not be a federal question for or against. The important stuff for you the stuff I mentioned above has been accomplished (discrimination, military service, hate crimes, etc…)
Farm girl here’s a chance to help me understand the situation a little better if I am wrong in my understanding here (besides marriage tax laws) what is it that your sexual orientation is keeping you from getting).
I did wonder out loud if for this last thing to fix Gay marriage, it was worth the fallout of energizing the bible bangers! And I think the depth of what I might or might not have said went out the window with that (for you).
Farm girl, as I thought more about this, I REALLY do know where you’re coming from with your passion (spit) and conviction (urine)(there’s a difference between passion and insult, passion doesn’t necessarily result in name calling or belittling but it has in this particular case, what’s your proper word for it extreme irony or something?), there are plenty of issues that I feel passionately about because they pertain to me, but all around me are folk to whom my concerns sound like “nice ideas”, but if those concerns got in the way of something they really cared about, they’d get axed with ease. Think (affirmative action) right thing to do (for serially repressed minorities in substandard inner city schools) as long as it doesn’t keep Joe Majority out of a school he’s been longing to go to for his favorite subject.
My job with them, is the same as your job with me: to convince them that it’s worth fighting for even when it’s inconvenient (and I’m sorry, but “it’s the right thing to do”), well you could just put single words in front of that phrase and half of them would be true.
Not able to weigh in further here as my browser will not accomodate the length of the thread. Using libary computer to get this in.
Horst? Whoever you are, you are a coward. Feel free to hit at me since I’ll not be able to further respond here. Not that it is any of your business but I happen to be self employed. I trust if you DO hit at me again, there will be someone of more respectable character than you to smack you back for me. I don’t think anyone would do that for you. It sucks to have no friends or credibility huh?
No need to post back to Hank since he has “left”. I don’t hit at people who aren’t around to hit back. I would note for our readers that Hank several times called me a liar. But he cited not even ONE example of me ever lying about anything. Hank has often made critical assessments of my character. They are based on almost no information. I have not alot more information about him than he has about me. I do know he is not entirely as he comes accross in this forum. I do not run with it and attack him. I simply ask that he afford me the same courtesy. When I call him despicable, that is an opinion of mine based on his posts. When he and the mouse in his pocket call me “the blogs biggest liar” well that in itself is a lie.
Dems I am disappointed in you. Being new and critical of established posters is a little presumptuous. Cutting off some folks on our side to appease the other side is downright wrong. I don’t myself know how anyone could be …just a little less pissed off….when they are being discriminated against. That said…
I love ya kfg. And not in a Hank Price kinda way. I have the deepest respect for you. Go a LITTLE easier at least on the newbies? For me? More FIRE less spit. Sometimes you are yelling so loud no one can hear you! You can type and think faster than any other poster here. More wit and less WHAM! A good calculated WHAM is more devastating than swinging wild. Sometimes swinging wild hits your friends.
And that’s it for me this thread.
—–
Bye hank! Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!
Sorry Hank, you are wrong. Throughout history, it’s always been the middle and lower class Americans who fight the wars. The rich may profit from war, but they don’t generally risk their lives for their country.
Wow, KFG got the flame thrower out for Will, Hank and this moderate dem dude! It’s a maaaaaaddd house in here, fo sho!!
Viva La raza Blanco!!
Mary,
What is “rich?”
What is “middle class?”
What is “lower class?”
Now give me the numbers of people who fit in those groups who were of fighting age during the American Conflicts in the past centry.
Now take those numbers and give me percentages of those who were of fighting age and served.
Otherwise, you are quite frankly speaking out of your rear.
JR,
My father clearly posted how you keep telling lies about the Foley issue.
Natie, how many percent of Congress members have immediate family of fighting serving, and can you split that by party affiliation too? While at it, why not have the Crown Prince, George P. Bush recruited for some action as well?
Bigots are bigots JR.
No matter how long or how short a time they have been here.
So very right wing for dem to criticise the tone and civility. Dem’s post of supreme cowardice and “cut and run” bigotry was civil.
Did it make it any less bigoted?
We’ve been through this before. I’ve seen where “civility” gets the left.
No where.
I still say demforshit is a freepre shill.
newbie or not.
Did anyone take it easy on paulie the shillie when he was new?
Farmgirl what is a frepree?
Still not sure beyond marriage what right is missing for gays. Give me a link, give me a quick explanation, something…Can you be fired for being gay if you’re just doing your job and someone finds out?
Did you see what I said last?
The ones with the greatest conviction about an issues are the ones who have to fight for the issue. They have to convince others that the issue is worth fighting for. Martin Luther King did it and white people came down from the north and everywhere else rallied to the cause and some even died for a cause that wasn’t theirs.
That was his ability to lead and his understanding of how you lead.
I don’t expect people who aren’t in my minority to always appreciate or even agree with the nuances of the things that pertain to me. If I give an impassioned argument and present statistics and can move them with a story, that’s something else altogether.
I’ve got to channel my passion into something that’s productive. Many times I’ve felt belittled by what people thought I could or couldn’t do based upon what I looked like and it’s given me great pleasure to prove them wrong, but I didn’t go on some self-righteous tirade to shame them into changing their minds, I stood and I delivered.
Farm girl I’m still waiting for you to come to me on this (hopefully not in vain, but regardless, it will be what it will be).
I’d be lying if I said I didn’t struggle with having gay rights equated with civil rights for blacks. I think you’d have a hurculean task to convince me that the struggles are of the same magnitude, if for no other reason than the sheer numbers of people that the struggles for women, blacks have faced in this country in getting equal rights!
Again I do believe in Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness and I can see clearly that gay marriage belongs in that last part. But in all things there has to be priorities and I think perhaps the priorities for the Democrats that “cut and run” on your group may in fact gel with the priorities of the majority of folk in the country on this issue.
It sucks, but even if now isn’t the time, it could be soon if you and people like you continue to strive to be understood.
Farm girl, I wish I could make this better,I’ve never posted on a blog like this and I’m not at all detached from what I’m saying to you, so when you insult me it really feels like an insult not just something that one does if your’re to the left or right and you’ve been posting here for a while, but I won’t do it by changing my story.
Nathan, is it not true that the vast majority of soldiers don’t have a college degree, or else they’d be officers, right? It’s not the highly educated or the rich that make the biggest sacrifice when we go to war.
Mary,
Your original statement made no distintion between officers and enlisted.
You simply said:
“it’s always been the middle and lower class Americans who fight the wars.”
Which is a load of crap.
rug muncher is crusaderx, I mean crusader will, I mean will’s favorite gay baiting term.
Horst wessel as will.
HUH!!!???
How did I get into this exactly?
KFG,
I scrolled upthread and I can’t see anything about a Horst Wessel. Now I don’t know where you get the idea of accusing me of being Horst Wessel since i’ve tangled with the bastard since I had the CrusaderX moniker. I don’t know what your problem is but I suggest that before you start pointing fingers, you would have the presence of mind to actually ask me about something. I may have changed my moniker but I don’t stoop as low as trolling, and as far as your wild-eyed accusations of me hating gay people, I would like to tell you to go fuck yourself.
Sincerely,Guillermo de la Vega
KFG,When it comes to sexual orientation, I don’t see homo-Americans or hetero-Americans, I just see Americans. It is the same with race. Re-read my assertion about violence against gays and you will find that I am in no way supportive of killing gay people or stopping the gay-marriage agenda. (I can’t interject faith into my legal profession so it is immoral and unprofessional for me to work against gay marriage using religious reasons.) I was merely expressing my concern for my fellow AMERICANS safety. So, now that we have established the fact that I view everyone with equal contempt, I would like to extend to you a negative diagnosis of your character as you have so graciously done to mine. You see KFG, I believe you to be a hypersensitive, stark-raving foaming at the mouth lunatic who has the equivalent of a third-grade reading and comprehension level. In fact, if you don’t believe that I am what I say that I am, then why don’t you give me your address? I will be more than happy to drive out to your house and give you a piece of my mind about your rabid, psychotic rantings on the WEBlog! I’m not sure why you can’t seem to comprehend that I would be the first to defend your old lesbian ass should your life be endangered. As a Christian, it is my duty to defend you from people who would seek to do you bodily harm. (You do know what ‘duty’ means don’t you?) Take a look around, you’re not exactly living in a ‘gay-friendly’ environment. Is it really such a stretch to say that if gay-marriage is legalized in Kansas, that ultra-religious zealots won’t be proclaiming open season on people like you? I don’t think so. Given the actions of racists during the final stages of the Civil Rights movement (A misnomer I think, since YOUR rights have yet to be attributed you, KFG) it is documented fact, sociologically speaking that almost immediately after a movement which has succeeded in attaining its goals while enduring heavy opposition had experienced almost an immediate backlash from the traditional right-wing, and you don’t get heavier opposition than in God guns n’ gays Kansas, woman. So I am still baffled as to how you took my appraisal of a potentially explosive situation as a threat, or as an argument against gay Americans getting married. My guess is, either your naturally inclined to be dense, or you were inhaling cleaning detergent while blogging. I don’t know, just a shot in the dark.
rug muncher is crusaderx, I mean crusader will, I mean will’s favorite gay baiting term.
Nope. That’s my second favorite!
And next to the price boys, he is the most homophobic person on the blog.
Who’s the runner up?
Shades of fred phelps?
Ah! But what hue?
Running from his own desire for gay sex?
I haven’t had any volunteers for butt-sex. Oh well…
Big time anti-gay marriage,
eeeehhhhhh!!! sorry wrong answer.
big time catholic,
so what?
big time hater of women’s right to choose?
playing semantics while dragging out that dead horse. I’ll kick it some more if you’ll join me.
I would think the WE could root this guy out if they wanted to.
But apparantly it generates hits?
It’s my charisma, that’s all.
Come on WE. If you can pull of making anyone think values boy is a real journalist, surely you can stop big bad will.
It’s their blog, they can do what they want.
What a great lawyer he is gonna make.
Why thank you kindly, KFG!
Shades of philllllll.
High contrast, I hope.
KFG,
I invite you to play a game with me. It’s called:
WHO’S BEEN PERSECUTED MOST BY STRAIGHT CHRISTIAN WHITE MEN
The object of the game is simple. You google incidents where straight Christian white men persecuted homosexuals and I google incidents where straight Christian white men persecuted racial minorities. THE PLAYER WHO COMES UP WITH THE MOST INCIDENTS OF PERSECUTION BY STRAIGHT CHRISTIAN WHITE MEN FOR THEIR RESPECTIVE GROUP, WINS.
You wanna play, beeyatch?:)
Nathan, how many of your comrades come from rich families?……Just wondering.
What is “rich” to you Mary?