So when does waving at the president become a firing offense? When you’re only waving with the middle finger.
A school bus driver from Issaquah, Wash., was stopped for the president’s motorcade while returning from a field trip in Seattle. As the passing president waved, the 43-year-old driver flipped him the bird.
Bush apparently noticed and mentioned it to the Washington congressman riding in the same limousine. That was in June. The driver was fired in September.
Posted by Dave Knadler
147 Comments
“Hail to the ‘T’-hief …”
Gee, whatever happened to freedom of expression?By the time he’s through with the country, we’ll be one more banana republic, and Bush’ll be the guy with scrambled eggs all over his hat!
Though I can understand that it was not the thing to do in front of a bus load of kids.
The driver was just repeating how the President feels about our country.
Considering that at the time this incident occurred, the bus driver was the care-giver and adult role model for this bus load of children, “flipping off” anyone was outrageous and improper conduct and she should have been fired, and not eligible for re-hire.
Who the “recipient of the bird” is not relevant in this context. Period.
rm4046 is correct. I love what the driver did and I hope he/she gets some press out of it…but yes it is true, you can only be a dick when you are the head of the government, not when you work for the government.
rm6046 should be renamed: err404
Yeah, Jim. I’m sure the driver had to work at being a dick.It’s natural for GW.
Bush thinks he’s the only one that can flip the bird!
rm6046, I TAKE THAT BACK!!I just read where you ripped paulfrossell’s stupid ass on another thread.That nakes us instant allies.
This school bus driver should have been fired. When did it become acceptable to teach school children to disrespect the president. This is the arrogance of the Democrats.
Republican,Majority of Americans think Bush is an absolute failure. You can’t polish a turd. He is what he seems – incompetent.
Knadler must thinks it’s OK to behave that way in front of children. He didn’t condemn it. Thank you for the window into the lib mind.
Incompetent? Isn’t he the one who can get gas prices to do what he wishes? Isn’t he the one who can rig elections? I think he’s a secret genius.
So for the liberals and freedom of expression, it is all well and dandy that a guy flips the bird in front of a bunch of kids. And at the same time, we should take the ten commandments of public buildings.
Yeah, doing that in front of kids is a sure way to get fired. I guess you could ask the local school bus company “durham bus services” what their policy is on driver conduct.
I imagine they would say the same thing about the firing. They appear to hold their drivers to a high standard.
Isn’t he the one responsible for the deaths of thousands of American soldiers? Isn’t he the one who ‘acts’ like a Christian only during the Campaign season. Isn’t he the one who continues to amaze Americans with his poor speaking skills and poor grammar. He’s a Yale Graduate and he cannot make an articulate statement. That’s like becoming a fighter pilot during wartime and never flying in the War. Ooops, he did that too.John Kerry is right. I predict in the coming weeks the question will get turned back to the Bush administration – why does John Kerry think you fucked up going to Iraq?Kerry will get some sit down press as soon as the election is over and I challenge any Repub. to counter the points the Kerry was attempting to make when he fumbled his punch line.It’s amazing that sometimes I feel hatred for my own countrymen…but the arrogance and incompetence coming from Bush and all those that defend him is an absolute travesty of American discourse.
Fired in September? What took them so long?
SoldevVB,In the case of flipping the bird in front of children. 1)He’s a bus driver. 2)He had an opportunity to flip the bird to POTUS. 3)You only live once…and sending a message to an asshole who insulates himself from the average American is a moment that should not be passed up.3)Maybe what this really says is that this American Man would rather risk his job, risk offending children, for the once in a lifetime opportunity to show his dissatisfaction with our American Screw-up President.At least the bus driver doesn’t go to bed at night with the blood of thousands of American soldiers on his soul….oops, I forgot, Bush doesn’t seem to mind he is killing our troops. Yet, he did care enough to try and keep a vegetative woman alive.NO GOOD TRAITOR
- why does John Kerry think you fucked up going to Iraq?
This is a recurring theme. Kerry voted to go to war, to give the authority to go to war, however you want to put it. Kerry voted to go. The current plan isn’t working and no one has a solution.
So finger point and sharp shoot away. This is a problem. Neither side has a solution. Finger pointing and name calling won’t change it.
SoldevVB, you ignorant slut
Jim,Did you forget all the folks in congress that voted to go to war?
With a bus full of kids it was the WRONG thing to do and thus is a fireable offense. In his own car it would have been perfectly appropriate.
Jim,Ignorant slut. Here we go again. Sure thought you got past your sexual confusion. Have you sought professional help?
Sol – voting to ‘give authority’ is a bit different from voting to ‘go to war.’ The assumption was that the CiC would use his judgement and that the CiC knew what he was doing. That assumption was 100% wrong.
hmmm,That seems to be a convenient excuse. Assumptions. Assume. Don’t we all know what Ass-u-me breaks down to?Giving authorization for an action and that action would not occur is ignorant, back peddling, and pure B.S.
Back to the bus. Had this guy flipped off Clinton, would the story be the same. Good point as well, why did it take so long to fire the guy? Are the two actions related? Is this just a pissed off bus driver that got canned for something else?
Shaking my head
Ya know? You moron bushies NEVER and I do mean NEVER cease to amaze me.
Fire a school bus driver for exercising First Amendment rights? Here is a clue you idiots: bush is not GOD. He is not even approaching a respectable man. What he IS is the worst president in history and currently the most contemptible human being? on the planet.
I’ve said it before. Why don’t you make your darling little sonofabitch king? Isn’t that about where you are going on this line of thinking?
I got a 12 year old. We were watching a show the other day where aliens were attacking Washington DC. My son yelled at the screen, “Get bush! Get him!”
I could not have been prouder!
I read a great suggestion yesterday.
If you go to the polls on Tuesday, and you think the preznit is the
worst.president.ever
Then dye your middle finger purple before you go to vote.
heheheheheheheh
JR,HAHAH on the video game thing. Poisoned your kid already. Way to go Dad.
Hey JR, try this. Flip off a cop, from your car w/o your kid there, and see how far you get.
Huh, is it that he flipped off Bush. Ask your lawyer when you get out of the pokie.
Sol – that is all the more reason we need to get rid of Bush and his bunch. We now know that we cannot assume that he has a clue; we know that his coke-addled brain is fried.
I know all about Ass-U-Me but I also know that delegation is standard proceedure. I ‘assume’ that my doctor knows what he is doing, I ‘assume’ that my mechanic is competant. Although I was one of the minority screaming that we should not assume ANYTHING positive about Bush he did succeed in convincing far too many Democrats in Congress to trust him. And, I fault those Democrats for trusting the cokehead.
hmmm,If you vote to give authority to commit and action, then you have no right to bitch when that action is taken. This, of course, ~assumes~ Kerry had no intent on going to war. That too, that Kerry didn’t intend on going to war, is an assumption based on what a politician said. A politician that has a “oh which way are the polls blowing today” mentality.
Here’s a good example of how the hypocrisy of right-wingers is as vast and deep as astronomical black hole in space:
“When did it become acceptable to teach school children to disrespect the president.”
Uh, maybe it was when Rush Limbaugh said that he had a new picture of the White House dog, and he held up Chelsea Clinton’s picture.
Maybe it was when Jerry Falwall made a video and sent it around to churches accusing Clinton of drug-running and killing Vince Foster.
Maybe it was when the Starr witch-hunt, having spent five years finding nothing on Whitewater, veered into Clinton’s consensual affair with Monica Lewinsky and made sure that America was informed us 24-7 of how often the President had sex, what kind of sex, using objects used for sex, the discussions surrounding sex, what articles of clothing the President orgasmed on ect. ect.
Yeah, there’s nothing like respect for the Presidency.
You vile pieces of schizen taught us that so well . . .
But back to the bus driver. What do y’all think would happen if you flipped off a cop? Why did it take so long for this guy to get fired?
A cop isn’t the president, you dumb ass.
The president is an elected official who works for us.
As far as the kids, the driver has his back to them.
He could have easily flipped Bush off and the kids wouldn’t have seen it.
For instance, I’m flipping you off right now.
Can you see it?
Didn’t anybody see the video clip of Bush flying the finger with his back turned to a pesky constituent who had a question?
I sure saw it.They guy hollered at the preznut while he was walking away with some staffers, and Bush didn’t even slow down or turn his head.He went straight to the intelligent response:HE FLIPPED THE BIRD OUT.
I don’t know wether the driver’s firing had anything to do with his action, but at least he had balls enough to express himself.
CapnAmerica,Love the name calling. Shows desperation. Sweet taste this early in the morning.
Yeah, I think cops work for us too. Ok then, try flipping off a senator, congressman, mayor. You pick the flavor.
Hey Capn,Try doing that in a company car too.
Hehehe, Tracy–yeah, it’s on effing VIDEO TAPE.
You can see it for yourself.
Or how about when Cheney told Leahey to “go f*** himself” on the floor of Congress, in what has to be the most under-reported event of the decade.
Can you imagine if Howard Dean or Kerry or Gore had said that?
IOKIYAR.
Sollie/trollie–
The cops aren’t elected officials.
No wonder you vote Republican.
It’s easier than thinking.
CapnAmerica,OK, I guess you can’t take a point. Filping off an elected official would be worse than flipping off a cop right? Less power, less ego. So what is your point?
Quakers used to get arrested for not removing their hats when the British governor passed by in his carriage.
Some people prefer to go back to a monarchy.
Wow,
The liberal Democrats like CapnAmerica and J R are in rare form today. They can’t even discuss the of the bus driver firing without bringing a thousand other irrelevant things.
It’s quite amusing. Perhaps we should pitch in and by them some flails so they can beat their own backs to bleed for their cause.
Sol–
Your question shows a blinding ignorance of American democracy.
Slander and libel laws are much less restrictive against a public figure.
Geez, were you homeschooled or something? Go back to 8th grade social studies.
CapnAmerica,A) Flip off a cop and see what happens.B) How do you know what the guy got fired forC) You are a little to quick to go waaaaay down a road laden with inference.D) Now you are going back to … what … colonial times. Reaching?
The bus driver was not in his own car. If he was, I say go for it. Do the double pumper bird if you want. He was on a skool bus with kids on it. Why is it the libs always find themselves defending what is not defensible?
CapnAmericaLove the slander. When you have to get personal, it would seem that your point has no legs.As I said before, try it on a public official then. You choose the flavor.
This whole thing sucks because it’s just one more meaningless distraction fromREAL ISSUES.Anybody remember those thingies?
You know, health care, tax cuts for wealthy folks, bankrupting america, ignoring international law, illegally re-interpreting the constitution, lobbyists purchasing legislation, on and on ad nauseum.
Sol
I’m sorta sorry now I helped you sort yourself from prollie Paul. You are no better than he is. No more help will be forthcoming!
And thank you for the kudos on how I am raising my kid! What do I teach him about police? I’m not sure that is relevant here. But since you asked, I teach my son that if the police ever bother him his first words should be “Got a warrant?”
It is really outer limits that it is liberals who now have to teach conservatives what that word means.
tracy-How much money does one have to make to be “wealthy”? What is your definition?
you guys are assuming that this is because it was Bush that got flipped off. I’m saying, try it yourself on a politician or police officer of your choosing. see what happens. And try doing it from a company car.
‘company car’ – that is the key. I will (and have) flip off a cop, politician, etc, from my own car. And if a cop busts me for it I will do what I did before – sue the bastard and collect. Also got HIM fired for it.
hmmmReally, have any record of that?
Yes – but I am not going to give it to you. It occurred in another state. The evil ACLU was also involved along with a group called “The Committee for the Bill of Rights.”
You know about the Bill of Rights don’t you? It’s part of the Constitution. And sign language is covered under freedom of speech.
Hotlips–
It’s not you, that’s for sure.
You pathetic wanna-be-s that buy the rope so the rich can hang you out to dry have no clue.
The top one percent of this country control 40 percent of its wealth. And that percentage is going up, not down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_One_Percent
The top five percent control something like 60 percent if memory serves.
The bottom 20 percent have practically nothing.
But you’ll fight to the death to give more wealth to the wealthy.
The old American dream was to get rich. The new American dream is to BE rich.
Bush is a godsend to the rich who are already rich and lounge pool side perusing their portfolios. But if you EARN your money by going to an actual, you know, job?
Not so good.
Are you better off today than you were four years ago?
1) Flipping off anyone while on duty as a school bus driver is inappropriate. Period.
2) That being said, the response of the poster who calls himself “Republican” is typical and pathetic.
JOHN KERRY! JOHN KERRY! JOHN KERRY!
CapnAmerica,
Good point. So let’s go all the way to the left and be socialists. Everyone gets the same thing. Yipee.How much of the burden are you yourself willing to pay? Why don’t you write some checks out to the government office of your choice?Sick of hearing about the evil rich. I’m am FAR from rich and STILL don’t think they owe me anything. They lived the American Dream and made it. I’m still trying.
Equal Opportunity = Capitalism = Conservative thinking
Equal Outcome = Socialism = Liberal thinking
Sol – by your definition I am “Conservative thinking”
Outstanding.
Okay, I’m not going to argue with you, Sollie, because arguing presumes that your opponent has some knowledge base that you share in common.
I don’t want to take the time to try to do what 12 years of education apparently couldn’t do for you.
But just so that you don’t make a complete and utter fool out of yourself (oops, too late!), I never said the rich were ‘evil.’ That’s your straw man argument (look it up).
What I said was that we should have a government that encourages benefits for all instead of what we have now–welfare for the rich.
The upshot: You can be canned for flipping someone off when you’re still on duty, no matter who it is.
But if guy nailed BECAUSE it was Bush, that’s a different matter altogether. Likewise, if he was on his own time (think the Cheney incident), he would have been completely within his rights.
Flipping off a cop is dangerous, but also constitutionally protected. Duh.
CapnAmerica,
“What I said was that we should have a government that encourages benefits for all instead of what we have now–welfare for the rich.”
Take a look at the tax break down. Look at the percentage that the rich are responsible for and what the poor are responsible for.
I’ve got no stellar job and I hit about the 35% tax bracket. Makes me freaking sick. I work 40-60 per week, do a good job, and earn a fair wage. I pay 35% of that to the government. So be it.
I did taxes for someone two years ago. They barely worked, made a poor wage, and got back MORE than they put in.
Now, take my story farther up the food chain. They are paying MORE than I am.
So if you use some of the intelligence that you assume I don’t have, it should be pretty easy to see who pays what and who “gets over”
Keep it up, “Republican”! That kind of clear thinking is sure to sway anyone with a functioning brain.
/sarcasm off
Interesting. Flip bird in June, fired in september. Why do we (and apparantly the Eagle) assume the two are connected? The Eagle’s link don’t work for me, it may be bad on my end. The driver may make that assumption, doesn’t make it so. Are the two in FACT connected? I see no evidence that is so.
Second, doing so with a busload of kids was stupid, though I’m not sure it’s firing material. But I don’t make that call. His employer does.
Third. I’m actually with hmmmm here. Ya know, if you wanna flip off a public official, or cop, I’d argue that the First Amendment protects same. It may have collateral consequences (see above), but a cop, for example, can’t and shouldn’t ticket or arrest for it. Neither should a public official take any action against you. Not the most intelligent expression, of course, but if you wish to display your IQ like that, I guess you can.
I generally respond with “Why, yes, I am Number One, thank you!”
Republican is an idiot troll.See for yourself:
Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.
Subject: BULLSent: 11/3/2006 9:50 AM
The following recipient(s) could not be reached:
‘r@cox.net’ on 11/3/2006 9:50 AMThere was a SMTP communication problem with the recipient’s email server. Please contact your system administrator.recipient rejected>
YOU HONEST FOLKS, who are republicans should be outraged.
Let’s look at your first premise: “equal opportunity = capitalism” . . .
Do you think for one nano-second that the United States has anything like “equal opportunity?”
Let’s take GW, our president.
His father when he was growing up was a Representative from Texas and later Senator, ambassador to China (where his contacts would later earn him beau-coup money), director of the CIA and 41st president of the United States.
G H W’s father was one Prescott Bush, State Senator from Conn and an executive with a Wall Street firm.
Prescott Bush’s father was Samuel Prescott Bush who owned the largest steel firm in Ohio and had a Rockefeller working with him.
Now . . . does that sound like “equal opportunity” to you?
The sad thing is, it probably does is you’re a Republican . . .
Doubtful there’s any connection.If there were, we would never know.
Wait, scratch that–HW was never a Senator, only his father.
“Flipping off a cop is dangerous, but also constitutionally protected. Duh.”
It can also be charged as disorderly conduct and assault. Depends on where you live.
Oh yeah, the Duh part, The twelve years of education part. Do y’all feel that being vile is part of discussion/debate? Maybe I’m not as intelligent as a lot of folks in here (humble enough to admit it) but I am smart enough to know that logic and reason hold no succor for slander.
“It can also be charged as disorderly conduct and assault. Depends on where you live.”
Hehe, I think I’ll let our resident prosecutor take this one. . .
assault? Ya gotta be kidding!
Meanwhile, for Republican, some of HIS kind of bevavior …
“COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (AP) – A leading evangelist andoutspoken opponent of gay marriage has given up his post aspresident of the National Association of Evangelicals while achurch panel investigates allegations he paid a man for sex.The Rev. Ted Haggard resigned as head of the 30 million-memberassociation Thursday and also gave up leadership of his New LifeChurch pending the investigation into allegations he had monthlytrysts with a gay prostitute over the past three years.Haggard, a married father of five, denied the allegations, butthe acting pastor of his church later said that Haggard hadacknowledged some of the accusations were true.“I just know that there has been some admission ofindiscretion, not admission to all of the material that has beendiscussed, but there is an admission of some guilt,” Ross Parsleytold KKTV-TV of Colorado Springs.”
So, Preach on the evils while practicing them.
http://my.netscape.com/corewidgets/news/story.psp?cat=51180&id=2006110309390001306552
CapnAmerica,Follow the logic. If you do well, so do your children. Should you throw away your fortune and not leave it for you kids?I assume you are somewhat well off. So do you shop for your kids at the GAP or at Wal-Mart?Punish someone for doing well. Expect that they won’t provide for their kids as best as they can? Where is your logic in this?Have you missed out on Kerry’s upbringing and his wife’s as well?What is your point? Everyone has the same opportunity to do well. Take Kerry’s own words – do your homework, work hard in school. Everyone has that option in one form or another.
Sol–
1. The percentage that the rich pay in taxes is a total red herring. It means nothing.
Look, it’s an INCOME tax. It taxes . . . uh . . . income.
So if you make a lot of income, you pay a lot of taxes.
The only way rich could reduce the percentage of income tax they pay relative to everyone else–under any scenario including a flat tax–would be if they earned LESS INCOME and other poorer people earned more.
So that Rush Limbaughism that “the percentage the rich pay is so high” is just meaningless. If the percentage is high, it just shows how rich the rich are.
2. You’re complaining about your taxes is exactly what I’m TALKING ABOUT. You work for a living like I do so you get hammered by taxes. My brother the dentist makes a lot more than I do and he gets hammered even more.
That’s because we’re EARNING income. If we make money like the rich make money, on capital gains, on stock options, on investments, our taxes would be lower relative to our wealth.
That’s part of the welfare for the rich I’m talking about.
You gotta educate yourself, man.
Why do you think Rush Limbaugh who makes a quarter of a BILLION dollars a year, give a shit about people like you and me?
That free-market religion they’re peddling is to keep us peasants happy with government hand-outs to the rich.
Well, now you’re changing the basis of your argument.
First, it’s “everyone has an equal opportunity.”
Now it’s “successful families should be able to help each other.”
Those two things are mutually exclusive.
If I am not born to a Senator who was born to a Steel fortune, how can you possibly say I have the “same opportunity” as GW Bush for success.
I don’t have anywhere near the same opportunity.
It’s an attractive myth, but it’s not reality.
DALLAS MORNING NEWS:
Frank Schaeffer: I should be supporting Allen. Instead, I’m leaving the party.
07:52 AM CST on Wednesday, November 1, 2006
I’m a Christian, a writer, a military parent and a registered Republican.
On all those counts, I was disgusted by an e-mail I just received that’s being circulated by campaign supporters of Republican George Allen, who’s trying to retain his Senate seat in Virginia.
The message goes like this: “First, it was the Catholic priests, then it was Mark Foley, and now Jim Webb, whose sleazy novels discuss sex between very young teenagers. … Hmmm, sounds like a perverted pedophile to me! Pass the word that we do not need any more pedophiles in office.”Democrat James Webb is a war hero and former Marine, wounded in Vietnam and winner of the Navy Cross. He was writing about class and military issues long before me and has articulated the issue of how the elites have dropped the ball on military service in his classic novel Fields of Fire. By the way, that’s a book Tom Wolfe calls “the greatest of the Vietnam novels.”
Mr. Webb’s son is a Marine in Iraq. That’s an uncommon fact in this era in which most political leaders’ children act as if it is only right and proper that it’s someone else’s war to fight.
Mr. Webb also happens to be running against a desperate opponent supported by people who circulated the stupid e-mail, something that reminds me of a 2000 smear campaign aimed at another war hero, John McCain.
I never served in the military. It was my son’s unexpected volunteering that connects me to the military family and to my country. And I’ve been voting Republican for years. My late father – Dr. Francis Schaeffer – was an evangelical theologian, friend to Jerry Falwell and White House guest of Ronald Reagan, Gerald Ford and the first President Bush.
I have nice handwritten letters from various members of the Bush family, including Barbara, thanking me for my books on military service. So I have every reason to stay in the Republicans’ good graces. (It’s nice to be complimented on television by the First Lady.)
But enough is enough. I’ve had it with Republican smears.
The Webb e-mail is the embodiment of the cynical Republican strategists, some of whom must know the difference between fiction and nonfiction. Was Agatha Christie a murderer because she wrote about murder?
According to the Allen camp’s logic, God would be a pedophile, too. After all, we Christians believe God inspired the Bible. And God-the-author chose to include the “sleazy” story about Lot offering to send out his young virgin daughters to be raped by the men of Sodom.
The Bible has masturbation scenes, rape, pedophilia and God’s favorite man – King David – warming himself with a young virgin in his old age. He’s the same man God tells us committed murder after he indulged his peeping Tom fantasies.
Lucky for God-the-author that He’s not running against George Allen.
I just got back from a visit to Parris Island and was struck again – as I was on the proud day of my son’s boot camp graduation there as a Marine in 1999 – by the moral credibility of the drill instructors and selflessness of the recruits.
Our political leaders should learn from them. In fact, our future leaders should be them. We need to compare today’s leaders to those of the past, who earned credibility beyond the reach of cynicism and irony – and cheap smear tactics.
People like Mr. McCain – who is “for” the war in Iraq – and Mr. Webb – who is “against” the war – should be respected no matter one’s politics or ideas about the war. Why? Because they paid their dues.
My wife and I have reached the tipping point. We plan to go to town hall to dump our Republican voter registration and reregister as independents. I don’t care anymore what party someone is in. These days, what I care about is what they’re made of.
Wartime demands leaders with character and moral authority. The political party smearing Mr. Webb proves it has neither.
Frank Schaeffer is the author of “Baby Jack,” a novel about Marines. His e-mail address is frank@frankschaeffer.net.
CapnAmerica,A lot of us have our retirements in 401Ks. If we tax stock trading, dividends, options, etc. doesn’t that hurt all of us?I live in Michigan and they have an inheritance tax that makes me sick. You lost a parent and now you get to pay for it? We call it the death tax. So that too would impact the rich you speak of, but it also hits the rest of us.
CapnAmerica,OK, by your premise, then when you kick off, leave me your savings and investments. You sure wouldn’t want your kids to get a head start or anything would you?
Sol–
Okay, you’re grasping at straws now.
401k’s are already tax-exempt until you start cashing them out. No bearing on the argument whatsoever.
As far as the “death tax,” give me facts and figures.
What I hear is it doesn’t affect anyone with an estate under many millions of dollars.
“when you kick off, leave me your savings and investments. You sure wouldn’t want your kids to get a head start or anything would you?”
Well, if you’re going to just be obtuse, then there’s no use continuing.
What I saying, and I think you know this full well, is that the idea of “equal opportunity” cannot possibly be true in America or anywhere else.
That’s why you can’t use it as an excuse to do nothing to help the poor.
But what Republicans do is worse than not helping the poor. They help the already rich get richer.
There’s no way that can be justified as a role of government.
CapnAmerica,Kids have the opportunity to go to school. If they have good parents or are self motivated, they do well in school. They do well n school they have a better chance of getting a better job. If they get lucky, they get famously wealthy.
Capn, what Sol is talking about is a state inheritance tax; not the federal estate tax. Kansas had an inheritance tax until 1998, when it was replaced by a Kansas Estate Tax. Without bogging the thread down, the inheritance tax, in Kansas, subjected many estates (and the beneficiaries thereof) to taxation while there was no federal estate tax payable. I am not familiar with the Michigan inheritance tax, but suspect it doesn’t take an estate of “millions of dollars” for it to be imposed.
Be that as it may, one thing many forget when railing against “death taxes” is that these were undertaken not only to raise money for the government, but also to support the populist view that accumulations of great wealth was somehow not to be desired. I don’t think this view holds much sway any more, but it was a feature of the popular sentiment when these types of taxes were enacted. Kind of, “you didn’t make the money, so you should have to pay to get the money” type of approach.
Capn,What would level the playing field? What would give equal opportunity in a fair and just scenario?
Sol–
Right, as far as it goes.
But who pays for the schools?
Local homeowners.
So schools in wealthy areas get a lot of money and schools in poor areas get crap.
That’s not really “equal,” is it.
So how can the Limbaughites keep saying there’s “equal opportunity”?
It’s a fantasy that allows the wealthy to abdicate their responsibility to the society that benefits them and blame the victim of inequality for his own “failure.”
Capn,What would level the playing field? What would give equal opportunity in a fair and just scenario?
Capn,To what do you attribute your success?
I’m rather curious to know if, other than Bush, there were any witnesses to the bird flipping. I don’t doubt the bus driver did it. People are fed up, and a flip of the old finger can do a lot to lessen frustration.
Have any of you ridden a school bus for a school outing? If so, were you watching the bus driver at all times?
This whole thing is ridiculous.
Ah okay, we’re already to the “plan” are we?
I guess that means you see that the “need” for a plan has been established.
Stop welfare for the rich.
A. Treat investment profits the same as the wages a working stiff makes, instead of getting taxed 60 percent less.
B. Start a nationalized health care program at least for every child under 18. That way, not just George W. Bush’s kids get to see the dentist and get their broken bones treated.
C. Cap benefits for Social Security at the current 90,000 dollar level, but increase costs to 180,000 dollars.
Right now, a working stiff pays much more into SS as a percentage of income than someone making 300,000 a year. Because the SS payments in cap out at 90,000. Everything over 90K isn’t taxed at all for SS. And remember, SS is used as just another revenue source for the federal gov’t. So it’s just another income tax.
D. Cancel all the contracts in Iraq with private contractors. They are stealing us blind and the money is flowing right from the tax payer to the richest corporations run by the richest men in America.
This is graft on a scale of a half a billion dollars a week.
E. Pass laws so that government officials can’t cycle out into private gov’t contractors that suck money from the public coffers. Exhibit A–Dick Cheney, the man that became CEO of Halliburton despite not having a single day’s experience in business. Not a single day.
He now owns six houses and made 36 million dollars in a single year. He also owns stock options and continues to draw a salary from Halliburton while the US gov’t gives mega-billion dollar contracts to Halliburton.
Utterly despicable conflict of interest.
That’s just a few for starters . . .
Republican Vice-President Nelson Rockefeller gave the bird to the media in 1976 and it made front page. He wasn’t fired. Current President Bush called a New York Times writer an SOB on an open mike, and Vice President Chaney said FU on the Senate floor, but they weren’t fired. Where is the justice?
You know itrs not hard to see the Political Bias of folks who blindly follow their party. Don’t you think its time to do whats right rather than whats good for the Party Line?
i may be Republican but i vote my mind. I am sick of the fact that the Two Party System is broken, Representation by the People for the People has become by the Party for the Party. Its time to rethink Term Limits and get the Dinasoures out of office and bring in some fresh blood
Hey, Cliff–
Tiahrt was for term limits . . . uh . . . six terms ago.
CapnAmerica,I don’t disagree with your plan at all. Everyone should pay their fair share. And it should be fair.Our tax dollars are supposed to be spent on running this country and its defense. A soldier doesn’t fight any harder for a rich person than a poor person.Blending in Cliff Robinson’s comment, my anger stems from the party line tactic. You present a fair and balanced plan. Mostly what I hear is about the “evil rich” (sorry to have made that comment earlier). It gets old. If you earned it or inherited it, then it is yours. You still need to pair what is FAIR, but you should not be punished for good fortune.Back to Cliff Robinson’s comment; if we don’t get out of this partisan crap, we are wrecked. We need unifiers. Folks that will cross lines for the betterment of our country.
Rage:
You asked for it, here it is. I won’t speak to other jurisdictions, but I can’t imagine they are substantively different than Kansas. In nearly any scenario I can imagine, flipping off a cop, or anyone else, is absolutely NOT disorderly conduct or assault. Sorry, SolDevVB. I think you lose this one.
It is in poor taste. It reflects more on the “flipper” than the “flippee.” (are those words? ;-))
But it’s not a crime. See KSA 21-3408; flipping does not put anyone in “reasonable apprehension of bodily harm.” DisCon is 21-4101; you can read it for yourself. In Kansas, there is case law as well. I’ll not go into that, as I don’t want to light any untoward fires.
I’ll not jump in the rest of this, thanks.
thnax GMC70. I will look for it in MI law. I have no first hand experience. Should have researched first….
Crimes – Causing Public Disorder
Under the Owosso City Code, a person is guilty of a misdemeanor if, with the purpose of causing public danger, alarm, disorder or nuisance, or if his conduct is likely to cause public danger, alarm, disorder or nuisance, he willfully uses abusive or obscene language or makes an obscene gesture to any other person when such words by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace.
Owosso City Code, Sec 19-82
Constitutional Law – Free Speech – Regulation – Validity – TestCrimes – Causing Public Disorder – Fighting Words – Constitutionality – Free Speech
A law which applies to all speech without reference to its content, does not restrict access to other methods of communication, and is narrowly tailored to serve a significant government interest can impose restrictions on the time, place and manner of speech without violating the constitutional guarantees of free speech. In this case, the defendant was charged with violating the plaintiff city’s ordinance rendering it a misdemeanor to cause public danger, alarm, disorder or nuisance through abusive or obscene language or gesture. The defendant entered a conditional plea of no contest to the charge, and appealed on the basis that the ordinance unconstitutionally restricted speech. However, the ordinance addressed language which by its utterance inflicted injury or tended to incite immediate breach of the peace, and did not vary in application based upon the content of the speech, and thus was a valid regulation of the time, place and manner of speech.
Owosso City Code, Sec 19-82
http://courtofappeals.mijud.net/Digest/newHTML/23683721.htm
“public … alarm … ”
Anyone ever saying anything nice about Bush “alarms” me and others. Therefore such speech should be illegal.
I remember some laws in California being overturned because they were too vague. As I recall the demurrer referred to ‘a reasonable man cannot determine that which is allowed and that which is prohibited’
Partisan crap? Who is the most partisan president we have had in recent years? Bush.
Who has been the most divisive president we have had in recent years? Bush.
Who said he would be a uniter, not a divider, then promptly began promoting the most partisan, divisive political agenda? Bush.
Give the opportunity, regardless of the circumstances, I would flip Bush off, also.
Sollie,One thing you’re overlooking was that Prescott Bush was “Banker to the Third Reich,” and was caught, along with his partner George Herbert Walker, providing finacial support to Hitler during WWII. Previously he was party to a plot to violent overthrow of the U.S. government so as to install a Nazi regime here. If he had been anything other than filthy rich, he would have been hanged as a traitor! Twice!
Let’s look at this reasonably shall we?
This was a public employee on the job flipping the President off.
Even if it was not the President, would you want a Bus driver flipping people off on the job?
A bus driver is supposed to have some level of etiquette on the job.
So regardless of this being the President, flipping someone off is something a public employee like a bus driver while on the job shouldn’t be doing.
Let’s look at the free speech aspect of this. No one stopped the bus driver’s free speech. The bus driver can keep flipping people off till pigs fly…
However, just as the bus driver has the freedom to flip people off, so does the state have the freedom to fire a public employee who is using vulgarities on the job, as a bus driver no less.
If this was a private sector employee, a business owner would have every right in the world to fire someone who was flipping off people or a customer or anyone while on the job.
All the rest of the crap attached to this is just politics.
Like I said, ridiculous.
SolDevVB:
The case you cite does not refer to this circumstance. It’s qute different; though it’s a DC prosecution (using language quite similar to the Kansas statute), the case involves quite different facts:
“In this case, the defendant stood on city property near a church and yelled at mothers and children as they approached the church daycare facility, declaring that babies were killed in the church and asking why they were going there. The children became distressed by the defendant’s declarations, and the defendant was charged with violating the city ordinance by causing a public disturbance. The defendant apparently asserted that he had been protesting abortion based upon the church’s support of a planned parenthood organization, and argued that the ordinance, as applied, unconstitutionally infringed upon his right to free speech.”
I’d also point out that this behavior, more agregious than flipping the proverbial bird, was found to be protected speech.
“Although the defendant’s statements inflicted emotional injury on the hearers, the injury was not of a type which permitted restrictions on the speech. Under the circumstances, the ordinance was unconstitutional as applied to the defendant’s conduct, and the defendant’s conviction was invalid”
Both quotes from your cite.
IOW, I doubt very much if, even in MI, flipping the bird is DC.
Nathan, I agree.Let’s get on with the real issues.I’m sure there are thousands that flip off the president if they have the chance. They don’t usually get arrested or fired.Let’s talk about whatever this guy was so pissed at our president about.Maybe his good job went out of the nation through GW’s free trade?Maybe he looked middle eastern and was whisked off to a secret prison without probable cause?Maybe both happened and now the only job he could get was bus driver for the minimum wage that the pres won’t raise?
On the other hand, let’s not speculate.I’m positive he thinks GW is a dickhead. Positive.
Nathan – I also agree. The key factor here IMO is that he was driving a school bus at the time. THAT changes the rules.
hmmmm -
The KS Dis. Conduct statute has been challenged on that ground (too vague) and upheld repeatedly.
It’s been held to apply to speech generally only where the speech was “fighting words.”
Flipping the bird ain’t it.
“Unlawful Assembly” was the subject of the one I am referring to. Since it is Constitutionally guraunteed that we can “assemble to petition for redress of grievances … ” the law was struck down (California)
But, of course yelling “fire” in a crowded theater would be covered by something …
hmmm …
Don’t know the CA statute (but it’s the left coast, after all). KS does have an Unlawful Assembly statute, KSA 21-4102. No case law, but given its language, I doubt it would be struck down. Has to do with the purpose of the assembly making it unlawful.
As to the last comment. Are you arguing that the 1st amendment covers all speech, in all circumstances? I don’t think that is the case (nor, consistently, do the courts), and the famous circumstance you cite is one such example.
At one press conference, a reporter asked some discomfitting questions. Dick Cheney, thinking he was off-mike, called the reporter, “A**hole”. But a mike picked it up.
When I was in 3rd or 4th grade, I learned about the finger. If the Issaquah driver was fired because some kids went home and asked, “Mommy, what does this mean?” then some disciplinary action, probably not termination, but reprimand and maybe a day or week’s leave without pay, would be reasonable.
But the complaint was instigated by the President, or one of his motorcade minions, according to the Seattle Times. “That bus driver is just a little piece of trash. Let’s teach her a lesson.” How petty and vindictive these elites are.
In the Virginia senatorial race, the party has smeared James Webb’s recountings of sordid things he witnessed when deployed to Vietnam.Degrading things that neither he, nor any other young American should have had to see, but many were forced to witness because they were drafted into a bogus war, against an “enemy” that had aided us in WWII against the Japanese, and afterwards asked for our help against French colonialization, which being refused, moved it to seek help from the Soviet Union.
In any case, I just bought a sweater from Cabela’s and it was made in Vietnam. We trade with them now folks. We could have done so decades ago, but for bad foreign policy. Instead we inflicted death on several hundred thousand people, including 58,000 American young men, and wreaked permanent injuries, both physical and mental, on hundreds of thousands more.
BushCo is pushing this extraordinarily demented propaganda: either you support what we are doing, or you support terrorists. Equivalent to saying in the 1960’s, either you’re for the war, or you support communism.
Who supports terrorists? BushCo. How do we know? Because instead of sending 200,000 troops to Afghanistan, and sending them into Pakistan to capture Taliban leaders who crossed the border, the administration sent 40,000 troops, and let the terrorist masterminds escape.
In Iraq, the administration sent less than one-third the troops necessary to defeat Saddam and then reestablish order. Al-Quaida, which kept out of Iraq by Saddam Hussein, has now set up shop there. Terrorists there are having a field day inventing and refining strategies and tactics.
Thank you GW for expanding terrorism. And great job getting a little person who is just trying to make ends meet fired because she had the audacity to give you the finger. You’re a really big man. Not.
GMC – no, quite the opposite.
hmmm . . .
Understood. Kudos.
Excuse me, I forgot some of what I intended to say. Lynn Cheney wrote a book “Sisters” about lesbians. Some people have concluded she is a lesbian. This is reasonably possible. The Cheneys’ daughter Mary is an admitted lesbian.
Conclusion: The VP isn’t opposed to gay-and-lesbian relationships. GW sent daughter Barbara to Yale, a leading, perhaps THE leading university exponent of gay-and-lesbian issues. The House Republican leadership kept Mark Foley’s gay activities under wraps to protect GOP interests. So all the sheeple who thought Bush and a GOP congress would restore “moral order”, sorry, but you were deceived.
The GOP planted a tawdry fictitious political ad against Harold Ford, an African-American senatorial candidate in Tennessee who was leading his Republican opponent, essentially accusing him of consorting with sluts and endorsing porn. Who is depraved here? Not Mr. Ford, but the GOP admakers. At first this worked, but recent polls indicate that Tennesseans are wising up.
Not only that heartlander, but WHITE women …
Correction: Ford wasn’t leading, the polls at the time indicated Ford had gone from behind opponent Corker to a statistical toss-up. That made it necessary for the GOP to use desperation tactics.
heartlander: I read your above posts. My initial thought was, this can’t be heartlander because he is saying some really, really dumb stuff. But since I fell asleep before I could get through it all, I realized that, yup, it must really be you.
First, you put in quotes: according to the Seattle Times. “That bus driver is just a little piece of trash. Let’s teach her a lesson.” As if the President or someone had said that. That is deceptive and cheap, heartlander. You don’t even know whether the bus driver was fired for that.
Next, a nonsensical spiel about George Bush supporting the terrorists.
Then you imply that Lynn Cheney is a lesbian? Then you state that the VP isn’t against gay and lesbian relationships. Is he supposed to be?
I really hope that you have been trolled heartlander. If not, you must be on the meds this afternoon.
I’d point out that the Seattle Times article has no quote such as heartlander cited.
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/davidpostman/archives/2006/11/district_says_driver_did_more_than_flip_the_bird_to_bush.html
There is, in fact, as one might expect, more to this story:
“The Issaquah School District terminated a bus driver for misconduct after she made an obscene gesture in front of students on June 16.”This incident has to do with the responsibility of an employee who is supervising students to act professionally and serve as a role model for appropriate behavior,” Superintendent Janet Barry said.
After leaving the Woodland Park Zoo in Seattle, the bus driver waited with a busload of middle school students on an onramp closed for the Presidential motorcade. The bus driver made an obscene gesture in the direction of the President’s car when it passed by.
…
“This was part of a pattern of behavior with this particular bus driver, not an isolated incident,” Barry said.”
Try to stick to facts, all. Heartlander, there’s no need to make stuff up.
outlander, the finger incident is what the driver is claiming in her union-backed appeal. The district has admitted that it took action based on complaints about the incident.
As far as supporting terrorism, wake up. We’re losing in Afghanistan. We’re losing in Iraq. Our losses are Islamic terrorists’ gain. I’m not saying the Bush administration is INTENTIONALLY encouraging terrorism, but that’s the consequence, even if unintended, of their decision-making. Rummy gave the JCOS heads-up on the administration’s decision to invade Iraq. Our military experts responded, “Okay, we’ll need the following to execute this mission.” Rummy dictated, “No we want to test a new theory of limited-troop warfare. Make it happen.” He tied one hand behind our troops’ backs. Remember Vietnam, when the Johnson-McNamara administration did the same thing? Or aren’t you old enough to remember?
SolDevVB, you ignorant slut.When a congress gives the president their affirmation to go to war (if necessary) they are also giving consent to a competent decision making process. Bushy went to war on shitty intelligence, intell. which he favored because it sounded better than Hans Blix’.You ignorant slut.All I want is the House of Rep. so the good people of this nation can begin to learn just how incompetent Bush, Rice, Cheney, and Rummy are. Anyone that would boot Colin Powell and keep Rumsfeld is a god-damn loser.SoldevVD, tell me, what do you think of your high & mighty Ted Haggard in Colorado? Teddy was cheating on his wife, sinning against ‘his’ religion, misleading the congregation….just a god-damn verson of every other fucking religious prick….ignorant sluts.
Hindsight is always 20-20 heartlander. Pretty easy to criticize. Not so easy to make the call when it counts. Ever happen to you with a diagnosis?
JimG:
No matter you point of view, your “style” of conveying it undercuts your message.
Small words for small minds.
JimG:
Nice adult retort. Not even if you beg, thanks.
And you’ve made it clear that you belong in scrollover land. At some point, you may grow up and be worth listenting to. Until then, well, your own choice of language says it all.
JimG – while I will join you in attacking GMC and others POLITICALLY I fail to see the benefit in your comment.
That said, I fundamentally agree with you that the authorization was based on the idea that the CiC would act in good faith. BIG MISTAKE!
outlander, yes it did. But the purpose of medical training was to hone my skills and correct my misapprehensions to maximize my ability to make correct diagnoses and render appropriate treatment to people, most of whom were “little people”. I made a few big mistakes. Not many, because I tried to be extremely conscientious. I talked with my patients when I made big mistakes to try to get them to understand WHY I made mistakes, and hope, in faith they would UNDERSTAND and forgive me. And they did. Which is not so much a credit to me, but to THEM, for exercising FORGIVENESS.
GW said his foremost role model was Jesus Christ. He was lying to the American people. Pulling the Darth Vader “Shock and Awe” show, was not what Jesus would have done. If you think it is, you haven’t read the Gospels. Or if you have, you didn’t understand them.
And GMC waves his mighty hand and consigns yet another poster to “scrollover” land.
What you are seeing here GMC and others is very legitimate and deeply felt and growing anger. It is an anger with an administration that is accumulating increasing power to iteslf while simultaneiously showing that it is arrogantly incompetent with that power. The good news is, the number of people with this feeling is ALSO growing.
The bad news is that some hard headed idiots not only cannot see but blindly applaud just how awful it all is.
There is a very real danger in this. Here, a bus driver fired for expressing an opinion. There, a man detained by the Secret Service for daring to ask the Vice President a question. Elsewhere, a woman fired for having an anti bush bumper sticker. We are becoming not just a divided but a solidly divided nation. For now, the power is in the hands of the offenders. This will change. And just as the right has spent the last 12 years attempting to completely destroy the left; well the left is gonna want some payback time. (I know I do) And when it comes, the right will begin their plans to hit back.
We may ultimately become a country of 2 camps with total contempt for each other. Not the stuff of a nations stable future.
I think things will moderate. Reagan’s presidency worked out. So did Clinton’s. GHW’s presidency was iffy. GW’s is a disaster for America. It will be corrected.
Sol,This an article:http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/nation/15917608.htm
and an economics study:http://elsa.berkeley.edu/~saez/piketty-saezAEAPP06.pdf
that support Capn’s position about the rich getting richer. And for those who ask, “What is wrong with that?”, the article says:
“‘It’s not the actual getting ahead in America that’s so important — it’s been Americans’ deep belief that they have the opportunity to get ahead. And if you lose that, there’s damage to our society,’ said Douglas Holtz-Eakin, who until last year was the director of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office and before that was chief economist for President George W. Bush.”
JR -
I didn’t put JimG there. For me, he put himself there. And, again, please don’t talk to me about “consigning” others to their place. That is your stock in trade. Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.
And I see JimG’s truly intelligent retort has been removed. Is a moderator now actually moderating? If you didn’t see it, readers, and wonder what the rucus is about, I won’t quote it directly. Suffice it to say it was obscene and about 8th grade level.
Why do people respond like that? JR cites a number of possibilities. Anger? OK, I’ll accept that. No excuse. Justified? Perhaps, but even if so, still no excuse for not acting like an adult. It may (and I say MAY) explain such behavior, it does not excuse it.
Ultimately, it’s simply a basic lack of understanding of adult behavior; a lack of real tolerance of others who disagree with you. No matter what your opinions on any subject, there is a basic level of respect that all are entitled to. It’s called being a decent human being.
And JR, if I haven’t been clear, let me be so. I have no “contempt” for those who disagree with me. Despite our crossing pens (both of us see the other as arrogant and judgmental, I suppose), I have no “contempt” for you. It’s not (usually) personal. I simply disagree with you. That’s OK, JR, this is America; you have the right to be wrong. ;-)
I do have contempt for those who see anyone who disagrees with them as unworthy of engagement on an adult level, as either unreachably ignorant or the enemy to be destroyed at all costs. I have contempt for anyone who cannot at least tolerate others with differing opinions. I have contempt for responding to points of view with obscenites, or simply dismissing a point of view by attaching (and usually mis-attaching) a label to the speaker.
GEnerally, you don’t fit that description; I’d be surprised if you responded with the type of gutter JimG responded with. You do, however, have a tendency to divide the world into “my side” and everyone else, in black and white fashion. At one point you wrote that you once were on the other “side,” at least on one issue. Maybe that explains it. There is no one so self-rightous as the recently converted. As to the nation, sure we’re divided. But we’ve been more divided before, and muddled through. We’ll muddle through again. The sky will not fall. We’re not ready to take to the streets, at least not yet.
You accuse have accused me of being “above the fray” at times, or a “parser of words.” You see those as insults. In fact, I kinda regard them as compliments. If getting “into the fray” means rolling in the mud in the way described above, I’ll pass, thanks.
If the Dems take Congress; will there be change? REAL change? I doubt it. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Certainly I have a list of changes I would prefer to see, as do you. Your list is somewhat different than mine, I suppose. If the Dem platform includes large doses of what you call “payback,” that is hardly an ringing endorsement of Dem victory.
To steal an old (and great) line: “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.”
Also ardent Repubs should proudly proclaim:”We’re the party of gay sex. In the administration’s families, in the congress, in evangelical Christian leadership.” ‘course I haven’t seen any GOP ads proclaiming this. I don’t understand why not. Unless they are congenital liars and fraud perpetrators.
PS. Is Hillary a lesbian? Quite possibly. It would explain why her husband sought heterosex elsewhere.
GMC, I think that was The Who, “We Don’t Get Fooled Again.” How many points do I get for this?
It was. The song also includes the greatest scream in the history of rock.
Points? Give your self a thousand; heck, give yourself a million! Or two!
heartlander: Many Democrats would object to the Republicans using their slogan. Regardless, you seem to have fallen into the mud, if I might refer to GMC70’s post.
How about this one: “Get off the fence now, it’s creasin’ yo butt…” – Stones
outlander, no points for me on that one–you stumped me. I stopped buying Stones albums in ‘68, and I have a strong hunch the lyrics you quote very likely came after that. Like my time was, “the pursuit of happiness just seems a bore.”
n “Warm me from the wind, and take my hand”. Don’t cheat and use the internet. It’s from an album that has been cited on WEBlog in the past 8 weeks, but it’s from the second side, not the title-track first side. I saw the artist perform in 1971, but the album came out in 1968. A work of the child of a famous American songwriter singer.
Heart:
Arlo Guthrie? A guess, based upon the date and your hint. I’ll guess Alice’s Restaurant is the album. No idea of the song title.
Did I guess right? Or do I take 100 demerits?
I think people should check out the following link:
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20061103104145428
In it, you will find we, as a nation, are way down the list on privacy, ie, we have none. If an individuals privacy conflicts with either government or big business ( is there really a difference?), guess who wins? Yep. anybody but the individual.
Now, I am sure the repukes will say one of two things: 1: privacy is overrated, or 2: It’s clintons fault.
Now I don’t know what you all think about privacy, but I rate it right up there with freedom as listed in the bill of rights. Not having it is directly influenced by politics, and politicians in the country have only one thing in mind: get reelected. Privacy is a buzz word to them, and means little unless it affects them personally.
Vote the bums out and get fresh, intelligent blood in there. Bush is the one bad apple that has pretty much spoiled the entire barrel.
GMC70, if you didn’t use the internet, great call!
‘course you didn’t get the Stones’ song, “Mother’s Little Helper ‘65″ about, probably valium.
Hey they DID strike that post. Pretty quick too. Never saw one get removed that quick.
GMC is not good at telling stories. The removed post invited to GMC perform fellatio on the poster. I think I spelled that right.
Yeah it was pretty vile and didn’t add much. I’m not sorry it was removed. I would however rather see less posts removed than more. Don’t get TOO froggy with the scissors.
Hey J M Walker, the rich can buy privacy. Well most privacy anyway. We should all be worried when our government knows more about us than we do about it. Sadly, for most people the reverse is more the norm. And it is, as you showed getting worse.
The traitor should consider himself luck that he is only on the receiving end of verbal barbs and the occasional raised middle finger.
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Once again, the same freedom you have to express your opinion is the same freedom I have to fire you for being offensive.
That Bus driver could have expressed feelings all day long, while not on the job.
That is the thing you leftists keep forgetting.
Aftermath, by the Rolling Stones, the UK version. Great album, wonderful sound, maybe their greatest album of all time; “Mother’s Little Helper” was replaced by “Paint it Black” on version of Aftermath released here in the US. Had the “long version” of “Out of Time,” which wasn’t released in the US until 1986, I believe.
“I Am Waiting” is on it, too. That has to be one of the Stones most beautiful songs.
The Stones only had maybe 5 years left after Aftermath – maybe. After that, they went downhill pretty quickly. And today? Geezerrock at it’s finest.
According to rumors, the reason for Bush’s “free speach zones” is because of his temper. He just can’t deal with dissention. True? I don’t know, but considering that anyone wearing anything anti-Bush to one of his appearences is immediately removed, and most appearances are to Republican-only groups, I have to wonder if it could be true.
Whoever turned in the bus driver probably knew what the outcome would be. A bit petty, I’d say. Wrong of the bus driver, yes. But, come on.
Scenarios. Bush waves at a schoolbus full of kids.
Wichita: The driver becomes ecstatic, waves back, and can’t wait to get home to tell everyone, “The President and I waved at each other today!”
Seattle: The driver flips the president off, and gets fired.
Berkeley: The driver flips the president off, and receives a community service award.
INteresting, JM.
We had a thread a while ago about the coming surveillence society and the 4th amendment. My largest concern is not gov’t violating the 4th amendment; we have mechanisms in place to deter that, at least as used for criminal prosecution (i.e., suppression).
My concern is growing surveillence OUTSIDE the limits of the 4th amendment, both by gov’t and especially by private business.
RD – one of the aftereffects of prolonged cocaine abuse is rampant paranoia and a very short fuse. Also an inability to discern reality.
In other words … BUSH!
It took the government from june to september to find the driver and fire them? Intelligence at its finest!
gmc,You might really get worried if you read this: http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20061103104145428
America is now seen as a threat to world peace by its closest neighbours and allies, according to an international survey of public opinion published today that reveals just how far the country’s reputation has fallen among former supporters since the invasion of Iraq.
Carried out as US voters prepare to go to the polls next week in an election dominated by the war, the research also shows that British voters see George Bush as a greater danger to world peace than either the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-il, or the Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Both countries were once cited by the US president as part of an “axis of evil” but it is Mr Bush who now alarms voters in countries with traditionally strong links to the US.
The survey has been carried out by the Guardian in Britain and leading newspapers in Israel (Haaretz), Canada (La Presse and Toronto Star) and Mexico (Reforma), using professional local opinion polling in each country.It exposes high levels of distrust. In Britain, 69% of those questioned say they believe US policy has made the world less safe since 2001, with only 7% thinking action in Iraq and Afghanistan has increased global security.The finding is mirrored in America’s immediate northern and southern neighbours, Canada and Mexico, with 62% of Canadians and 57% of Mexicans saying the world has become more dangerous because of US policy.Even in Israel, which has long looked to America to guarantee national security, support for the US has slipped.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1938434,00.html
“Points? Give your self a thousand; heck, give yourself a million! Or two!”
I’ve performed it in front of an audience. How many point do I get? :-)