President Bush’s choice of Wichita native Robert Gates as secretary of defense should inject more pragmatism and less neoconservative ideology into his administration. Gates is part of the “realism” foreign policy approach and, unlike Donald Rumsfeld, is viewed as a consensus builder.
With Gates’ nomination, along with the return to influence of former Secretary of State James Baker, it appears as if Bush is starting to listen more to his father and less to Vice President Dick Cheney. I hope so.
Meanwhile, the neocons aren’t retreating. In the current issue of Foreign Policy magazine, American Enterprise Institute fellow Joshua Muravchik wrote a “memo” to neocons, arguing that they need to start setting the stage for Bush bombing Iran. “The global thunder against Bush when he pulls the trigger will be deafening,” Muravchik wrote, adding that “we need to pave the way intellectually now and be prepared to defend the action when it comes.”
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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48 Comments
If the US starts a war with Iran the thing that will be thundering will be the retaliation. Unlike Iraq, Iran has a military capable of defending their country.
Lets hope that cooler heads prevail over the warmongers.
Iraq’s solution to Iraq:
“The health minister also said the United States should hand Iraqis full control of its army and police force. Doing so, he said, would allow the Iraqi government to bring the violence under control within six months.
“The army of America didn’t do its job … they tie the hands of my government,” al-Shemari said. “They should hand us the power, we are a sovereign country,” he said, adding that as a first step, U.S. soldiers should leave Iraq’s cities.”
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/breaking_news/15964047.htm
“we need to pave the way intellectually now and be prepared to defend the action when it comes.”
I’m glad you ended with that quote.In political speak, that means:
We need to lie our asses off to start this one (again),and be prepared with one helluva alibi when the people get wise!!
Sorry to offend the rah rah crowd, but Gates has Iran-Contra written all over him. Do a little research. He was in on that little jewel up to his elbows.
Tracy
We wont be invading Iran. If we do anything militarily we will bomb the hell out of nuke facilities and military infrastructure. The goal would be to wipe out their nuke and missile programs. It’s doubtful that we’d put any boots on the ground other than some special forces for reconnaissance purposes.
Heckler – perhaps you haven’t noticed but we have a whole lot of troops sitting right next door in Iraq. So far Iran has not really done anything to support the insurgencies but if we make the decision to attack Iran you can be sure they will. And I doubt that we can get all their missles with a single aggression; they will likely be able to strike back in self-defense against us.
Heckler, I think your premise is valid. However, what about the 140,000 troops in Iraq? I would think bombing, etc., would invite retaliatory ground strikes from Iran, whose government would like to get in on a piece of the action.
Would Syria sieze upon the opportunity to bring its troops in as well? I ask these questions not doubting that Iran and Syria remain a giant risk to stability in the region, but to question whether ground forces of the U.S. would not become involved in Iran and possibly Syria as a response to Iranian and Syrian actions following the bombings you feel would be the limit of military action?
Tracy,
I think the people have wised up. We really should be thanking the neocons for all they’ve done for us in that respect. Once again, those in power have prove to be untrustworthy. We’d be well to keep that in mind, no matter who is leading.
prove=proven
VT – I don’t know that either Syria or Iran would put boots into Iraq. Just armaments and other help so Iraqis can better resist our occupation. I am sure that they both would make our occupation even worse than it is now.
Starting wars is a lot of fun for the neocons; fighting them becomes hell for others.
If the Iranians have any smarts at all, their nuclear facilities will have been hardened against conventional bombs. If Bushllit wants to bomb them, he’ll need to use nuclear weapons, and we all know what we’ll get from the entire rest of the world if he does!
VT
What you cite would certainly be a concern but any large moving forces would be easy prey for our Air Force and the army’s helicopters. Either country would be nuts to try coming after our troops on a large scale.
As for covertly arming resistance in Iraq, well I think it’s safe to say that Iran has been doing that for some time anyway.
Heckler – curent WE are the ones arming the insurgencies:
“Mr Bowen’s audit office began operations in March 2004 and has referred 25 criminal cases to the US Department of Justice. Four have resulted in convictions.
Among its more notable findings was a report on the loss of 14,000 weapons destined for Iraqi government use.
Many of these are believed to have found their way into the hands of insurgent groups after the Pentagon lost track of them.”
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/11/09/iraq-corruption-costs-billions/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2F2%2Fhi%2Fmiddle_east%2F6131290.stm&frame=true
And the GOP answer to this: FIRE THE INSPECTOR-GENERAL WHO REVEALED IT.
Corruption within the Iraqi government is costing the country billions of dollars, the US official monitoring reconstruction in Iraq has said.Stuart Bowen told the BBC that Iraq was facing a second insurgency of corruption and mismanagement.
He said Iraqi government corruption could amount to $4bn (£2.1bn) a year, over 10% of the national income, with some money going to the insurgency
A clause in a military spending bill signed by President George W Bush three weeks ago will terminate the work of the auditor on 1 October next year.
Gates has to be confirmed by the Democratic Senate. And as ksfarmgirl noted, he was very deep into the Iran-Contra affair. He will have to answer some very pointed questions very carefully if he is to be confirmed.
dave s – I would think the Gates confirmation would be a part of the wrap up session for the current congress. I also think W has floated this to Dem leaders, and there will be surprisingly little opposition.
VT – I think you are right. However, Bolton is toast. That will be the trade.
hmmm… Roger that.
More info on Robert Gates:http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/11/9/34541/0328
Apparently Gates was head of the CIA when we decided to start funding the Taliban to fight the Russians. And he was a major factor in us doing so.
Dave sFor a fascinating look at that situation, read Charlie Wilson’s War. Where it isn’t amusing you at the rampant misuse of power, it is scaring the hell out of you on the rampant misuse of power.
Correction, he was second in command when we started funding them.
From the link:
“In his memoirs, former secretary of state George Shultz demonstrated that CIA involvement in a policy of covert action tainted its intelligence. His memoirs remind us that when operations and analysis get mixed up, “the president gets bum dope.” Shultz demonstrated how this happened in the 1980s in Afghanistan, Iran, and Pakistan, all contributign to the strife we face today in Southwest Asia. CIA director William Casey and his deputy Robert Gates covered up important intelligence regarding Pakistani nuclear developments in order to protect the covert action program supporting the mujahedeen in Afghanistan, and they exaggerated the role of the Stingers against Soviet forces in order to trumpet clandestine deliveries of surface-to-air weapons. When I challenged the operational director of the deliveries about providing weapons to the most reactionary members of the mujahedeen long after the Soviet withdrawal, he responded “we merely delivered the weapons to Pakistan and let God sort it out.” This is the mentality that provided weapons and influence to Bin Laden and other anti-western fanatics.”
And don’t forget his support for terrorism in Central America. Ironic that the target of some of that terrorism just won an election on Nicaragua and that one of the terrorist supporters was there campaigning against him.
Bolton is right where he belongs ! A loud mouthed ineffectual idiot in an organization full of loud mouth ineffectual idiots. The U.N. is a joke. We should evict all of them, sell the prime real estate and direct the proceeds into the national debt.
Bobby Gates will also be right where he belongs…a man of integrity, experience, and honor. It is a shame his tenure may be only a couple of years, if the Billary/Pelosi/Schumer/Kennedy/Kerry quorum have their way. The GOP better find somebody to run in ‘08, or this country will be toast. McCain is the best shot right now, but I fear he can’t win, thanks to Foley/Cunningham/DeLay/Abrahoff and Ken Lay scandals. And it sure as hell ain’t Sam Brownback and Paul Rosell ! Damn, that’s scarier than Kline ! Where the hell is another Teddy Roosevelt when we really need him ?
rm, a Republican holding the 21st Century equivalent to the views espoused by TR wouldn’t make it out of the primaries, I fear.
rm – if you want any sort of reasoned bipartisan working together then calling the Senator from New Yory Billary doesn’t help. Why should she want to help BushDaBum?
Interesting, the ‘Open’ blog thread just poofed.
The requested URL /weblog/2006/11/open_thread_7.html was not found on this server.
what happened to posts at http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2006/11/open_thread_7.html#comment-25132608
Technical glitches?
Dyou think it will be back, I hope so there was some cool stuff on that page.
This smacks of more of the P.N.A.C planning and no reality check, now several have made the observation that though Iran does not have the ability to move ground forces against this nation. They are more then able to over run our troops that are in Iraq. They also have a standing air force and everything they have is already there. Where we would have to make a quick mass transport to reenforce our troops. THAT IS REALITY!!! As to Iran and Iraq, they have been playing the game that we have done several times in the form of proxy war. Providing arms, intel and support to the Shiites of Iraq.
“Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!”, that is a good saying to remember in the future. We saw where there was the start of a build up like with Iraq but this time it was Iran. But it stopped before the election because they sense the nation was not in a mood to be fooled again into another war.For a group that was formed in the likes of a think tank, they really do not seem to think a lot! So indoctrinated with the teachings of Leo Struss that even faced with their plan gone wrong they can not change their thinking.
“Perpetual war for Perpetual peace”, The human being is naturally violent and so to keep the unwashed masses from upraising against the elite. They must be given an enemy to hold their focus, so it does not turn onto the ruling elite. But in a sense those thought that were inspired by Struss did not hold true Nov.7th. It would seem that Iraq did not hold our focus enough and the unwashed masses turn on their ruling elite.Rather then face the reality that their thought were wrong, they want a bigger war to take our focus.
rnIf nominated I will not run.If elected I will not serve.However, thanks for thinking of me!Not sure what I did to get under your skin, but I don’t see all that much comming from you that I disagree with, at least not enough to warrant anything getting personal here.I do think Brownback would make a good President, compared to several other choices. However, I am not sure he can win the primary.Brownback has a better shot than Rudy or McCain, however.I know the grassroots.It will be an “anybody but McCain” primary, I am affraid. The strongest true conservative will probably win the primary. I am not sure Brownback can win the early states.Besides, Republicans do better with someone from OUTSIDE Washington.I am thinking that the Governor of Massachusettes, Romney, is looking pretty good.
paul, as usual, you are full of it. You know the “grassroots”? ROFLMAO! There is no way in hell Brownback has any chance what so ever to win the primary. Vegas odds makers refused to even give him odds when they had a couple of candidates at 1000 to 1!
Looks like Paul is gonna stick around.
GOOD!
Hey Paul?
Give whatever GOP presidential nominee or candiadate that may emerge your FULL endorsement here. PLEASE!
YOU know, like ya did bonbon Huy and Phill Kline? We see what you did for THEM! An endorsement from you is the kiss of death! And you choose Brownback? He’s ALREADY dead!
daveI have, at times, been guilty of “reading comprehension” problems on these blogs. It happens when you read a post too quickly. — Or when you impose YOUR bias on some else’s thoughts, not seeing things from the other point of view.Please re-read what I posted, above.I said that I did not think Brownback could make it past the early primaries.I also said we Republicans do better with someone OUTSIDE Washington.(Actually, so do the Dems. Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton actually won presidential races. How about “President” Gore or “President” Kerry??)We Republicans do well with Governors. Remember Ronald Reagan and George Bush 1, (who went to Washington under Reagan, not from Congress). We also did well with Bush 2, who came from outside Washington.President Dole anyone? I worked hard for Dole, knowing that he would have Kansas coat-tails. Lots of conservatives were upset with me for my support of Dole, but Dole was sure to win Kansas no matter what, and Dole had HUGE Kansas coat-tails, getting many other Republicans elected to office in Kansas.Brownback would have an equal effect on Kansas turnout for Republicans, should Brownback win the primary, or find himself a VP candidate.Likewise, Sebelius as a VP candidate would make it rough on KS Republicans in 2 years. My guess is that she would accept such an offer, if asked, regardless of any promises to the contrary.(I am thinking, however, that “Tillers Governor” will be a distraction on a national ticket, a headache that the Democrat nominee won’t want to deal with. New York and most New England states would prosecute Tiller. Regardless of your views on the subject, the nominee will want an assett, not a liability. Our small KS electoral vote would not, in my opinion, justify Sebelius on a national ticket. We are talking about massive financing here, Tiller would NOT be outspent on a national stage. In fact, Sebelius on the ticket would put Tiller in the national spotlight, something the prochoice political gurus might not want. That being said, Sebelius on the national ticket would hurt Kansas Republicans in 2 years. Just as Brownback on the ticket would hurt Kansas Democrats in 2 years.In my opinion, McCain will not be President, even if he manages to get past the primary.Conservatives dislike McCain. It is not a question of simple disagreement, the sentiment runs high. McCain is regarded as an enemy by many Republicans.Me? In a choice between Clinton or McCain, I hold my nose and vote McCain. I am trying to be an honest observer here, based on my experience. Primary voters are not pragmatic people. (Senator Lamont, anyone???)Thousands of Republicans would stay home if McCain did get the nomination, I fear. Unless, of course, McCain does something completely out of character for him: apologize to the Republican base and quit being a media lap dog. Also, the press is about to turn on McCain. The press no longer needs McCain around to screw up the Republican Majority. There is no majority for McCain to screw up!McCain is about to find out how many friends he really has.—–As for the Vegas handicappers: What did they say about Bill Clinton after his Democrat Convention Speech for Dukakis? Everybody, Vegas included, thought Bill Clinton was finished at that point!
Vegas doesn’t know who the nominee will be. Neither do I, but I am pretty sure who it Won’t be. I don’t see how McCain pulls it off without a big make over for McCain, first.
“Be careful what you wish for!”The Democrats in control of Congress must now LEAD. Leadership is always a hard thing, a messy thing. In my humble opinion, it would have been easier for Kerry, Gore, or Hillary Clinton if the Dems were still in the minority.Mistakes happen. 2 years is a very very long time in politics. All of the Dem front runners are in Congress.They will ALL make some mistakes.Time will tell.
JRI have a brochure here from Goyle. He sent out at least 17 different mailers. He spent over $100,000 is my guess, almost all of it from out of state. —
Correct me if I am wrong: Weren’t you one of the people on this Blog that told me that Todd Tiahrt was wrong to try and restrict the Phelps’ clan’s ability to charge legal expenses to the government, when Phelps would win in court on 1st Amendment grounds? I argued, back then, that attorneys fees were a matter for Congress to decide, and that this fee issue was not a Constitutional issue. You lefties went nuts. Again, forgive me if YOU actually agreed with me on that issue, but I think I would remember such an event. I think the world would stop turning for a moment, as well, dont you??—Goyle claims, in this large flyer, that:
“Fred Phelps Must be Stopped”"My first day in office I will write a new law that will stop Fred Phelps from dishonoring our American heroes.”
JR, Goyle bought his new position with money and lies. Goyle’s own ACLU fought FOR Phelp’s right to protest, and now ACLU Goyle says he is going to STOP Phelps?
JR, if you think it is OK for Goyle to lie like this, you have no honor just as Goyle has no honor.
With over 100,000 to spend, and a hard working campaign staff, Goyle could have won without lying. Goyle told several whoppers. They have all been recorded for future reference.Goyle’s easiest race is behind him.
“Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.” it has been said.—Goyle and JR, minds as big as the great outdoors!
Dude, if you think Brownback would do better than McCain, you’re in as much delusion as Bush.
Even democrats like McCain. And that is saying a hell of a lot considering how we feel about Republicans right now.
I think Sebelius wouldn’t have nearly the problem you think she would. She did win most of Kansas, the reddest of red states two terms by a large margin. Maybe abortion doesn’t matter to as many people as you think it does. Remember, South Dakota’s abortion ban was turned down…another conservative state.
Abortion is not the end all debate for most people. Even with as pro-choice that I am, it’s not even my highest priority.And I really think anytime the anti-choice crowd goes after Tiller, it actually helps him. All you prove is that he’s demonized beyond belief, and that with all the criticism, he’s still a good doctor. Imagine we’d have no doctors if they were all held to such scrutiny.
Hey I have a question…when was the last time someone filled out all the information on their own traffic ticket from the police?Anyone ever been asked to write the ticket to themselves?
political momI agree, abortion, is not the leading issue for me either.Nobody gets born at if we all get nuked first!However, politics is more complicated than that. We are first talking about Republican Primary voters and their animus towards McCain. That dislike is high right now. Perhaps McCain can bridge that gap, but I doubt it. McCain has some prolife credentials, but he caused real trouble for us in the Senate, where judges are concerned. McCain also pushed campaign finance “reform” which is anathama to any true free speach advocate.As far as Sebelius winning the Governorship, she had funding advantages, lots of out of state financing, a friendly press, and an electorate that has already been introduced to and become accustomed to George Tiller. Most of the country would not allow Tiller to practice as he does here. Even liberal newspapers, outside of Kansas, would blast Sebelius over Tiller if that gave their home-grown candidate an edge.The abortion ban amendment you speak of was too stiff, too restrictive. You are speaking to a moderate prolifer here. The defeat of that Dakota measure will actually bode well for people like me, who argue that politically popular restrictions are the way to go on this issue.I do not like the abortion issue. It makes me sick to my stomach. I truly would quit talking about it entirely if we could just get our laws in Kansas to be as restrictive as the laws in New York or most of Europe.But, the issue will not go away. It is a very important issue in Republican primaries.By the way, voter intensity surveys usually show that the prolife endorsement is worth 4 net points in the polls, all other things being equal — for precisely the reasons you stated. Prochoicers do not usually vote on this issue as a “single issue” as much as prolifers do.The prolife stance is an advantage, but not nearly enough to win.—-The 6th year of a Presidential term is always tough on the party in the White House.I am hopeful that the arrogance I admit existed in the Republican Party has now been cured, and that we will begin, again, to explain our views to the American People, in the way that Ronald Reagan did to earn his landslide elections, and in the way the Republicans did when we took Congress with Tiahrts first election.I am also quite sure that Democrats will make the predictable mistake of misjudging this election.No Democrat ran on abortion rights or pulling out of Iraq or raising taxes. (Except for Senator Lamont.)Repubicans lost this race, I am not sure what “mandate” the Democrats “won.”
political momdid you get the officers name and badge number?Not sure he did anything wrong but I would keep track of that info.Sounds weird to me.
No, the reason why I asked about that ticket thing is because I saw on a website someone scanned a ticket that Tiller got, and said it was Tiller that wrote the wrong VIN number on the ticket, along with a false home phone number and false work number. I was trying to prove that antis lie all the time by distortion. No person ever writes their own ticket.
The website infuriated me…not only did it give this kind of information, it gave personal information and maps to the houses where his staff works. Made claims against the staff (such as this person wears scrubs but is not a licensed nurse). Guess what, I’ve worked in healthcare not as a nurse, but as support staff, and in every one of those jobs I was also supposed to wear scrubs. The indication being that he hires unqualified staff. Which is preposterous.
They show fake documents of his applications to practice medicine claiming that he used someone else’s degree, yet there is no evidence that he was the one who submitted that particular request. Then they go on to claim he wrote this PAC letter, but there was no scanned copy of it, they just wrote it. Now you’d think that with all the other scanned documents on the page, if they really had the document in their hands, they would have scanned it too, right?
By the way, when I was a teen, I got a ticket. And on that ticket, almost every piece of information was wrong, including the color of the car, it was a 2 door not a 4 door, and other key pieces of information that were so apparent that the ticket was thrown out in court.
THIS is what I’m talking about with the whacko demonization of Tiller.
Conspiracy alert..there was a Open Blog earlier today but now disappeared. Why?
Was it because I said…Tom Vilsack is not a Presidential name? Dem, two time gov of Iowa, announcing his race to the White House today?
He has no chance just because of his name.
I also mentioned other possible 2008 choices for the White House..
Hillary/Bill Richardson, gov of New Mexico. He was in the Billy administration. Clinton/Richardson has a ring to it.
It’s about time Hillary demands national health care plan again and folks will listen if it caps medical costs or lowers prescriptions much more.
Hillary/Lieberman if she gets desperate. He’s got a big head for winning election the way he did as an independent.
Barack Obama and new gov of New York, Eliot Spitzer. The tandem for 2012 or they could do it earlier.
Repubs,
McCain/Rick Perry, gov of Texas.
Milt Romney/Rick Perry..both unknown nationally well enough. Either one is a VP candidate.
McCain/Jeb Bush
McCain/Guilani
Brownback/Tiahart…why not them!
Then sleepers are possible too.
Sebelius is not a VP candidate that makes sense. I don’t every person willing to try.—I haven’t had a traffic ticket since 86?
If McCain ran with either of them, I’d never support them.
I’d personally like to see a Clinton/McCain ticket, but that will NEVER happen.
First of all, if Hillary actually got the nomination and picked lieberman, there would be a revolt!
And John Bolton’s UN nomination has been shot down by Lincoln Chaffee(R) less than an hour after it happened!
“The American people have spoken out against the president’s agenda on a number of fronts, and presumably one of those is on foreign policy,” Chafee said. “And at this late stage in my term, I’m not going to endorse something the American people have spoke out against.” (AP)http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061109/ap_on_go_co/bolton_un_ambassador_6
political mom, you have to realize these are the same people that believe it’s ok to kill doctors who perform abotions. that is one reason why the post this kind of personal info. So that others will act on it.
I’ve said McCain/Obama crossover ticket, but that was before the takeover happened.
McCain doesn’t have full support of Republicans and he could cross party with any Dem and try to run.
Hillary/McCain, he wouldn’t do that, no matter any voter wanting it to happen. He would kick and scream, accept more torture before being a VP.
Dave S, that’s exactly why they post that personal information. Incredibly f’d up.
Why don’t the American people elect Hillary/McCain, they could take turns being President, one for two years, the other for two years. :D
The thing is, McCain could go down in infamy as being VP to the first female president ever. He should know that.
PM,
Back in the Stoneage, all information had to be correct on a ticket or it was thrown out. Times may have changed or it may depend on the court now. I tried in a small town to point out that the time or something had been left off my ticket, but I ended up having to pay the fine.
Writing a ticket properly is a stickler for most police officers. There must be a reason for that.
Just got off the phone with my Texas friend. Apparently Gates is thick with the Bush family. Sound familiar?
There will be no more “moderation”.
“Moderation” is what Dems had to do when they were out of power. Well the real fighters who won this victory have had 12 years of swallowing moderation. We are fed up with it. And we do not have to take it anymore.Negotiation and moderation?
NO thanks.
OUR side has the House and Senate now. This is due to the excesses of the right. Now the right is quite rightly consigned to irrellevance. I say keep them there.
Any candidate that the loon Mrage or the shill Paul Rosell are in favor of are not fitting with the new majority.
The worm in your head is turning JR.
You have no ownership in the political process to call a “side”.
Your blather isn’t money. Money rules politics. Politicians jump for cash, not because you ask them to.
My ideas of potential partnerships for the White House are guesses. I do hope for Obama/Spitzer in 2012. 2008 I really don’t care who wins.
Whoever might be a one term team, especially if its McCain as Prez.
Majority in the Senate and House will change in 2008. Not get stronger, seats will change and majorities will get weaker.
Americans don’t want one party rule again, whether its Dems or Repubs.
Repubs can filibuster policies constantly and what can Dems do about that. Dems loved to filibuster and Congress did nothing this last term. They agreed to the lowest days ever spent in office. Harry Reid sucks and that’s a fact.
Both parties suck when Congress stops working. I choose not be on either side, accepting moderation and cooperation.
As a citizen of the United States, my government does not speak or represents me, the common man in this matter.I don’t agree at all about this ideology of bombing Iran, no matter what anybody says!I am not at all threatened by the Iranians simply because they have not caused me any intrusions or harm me in anyway.The Iranians may hate us but it would be total suicide for the whole of their nation to commit to using nuclear weapons on us if they were to have any.Other countries of Islamic degree (Pakistan, India) already have nuclear capabilities and do not pose any threats.
These neoconservatives are paranoid, arrogant and full of shit to think that they can change a way life of another country that have carry over for more than five thousands years.The only person that has trespassed on these soils is the people of Osama Bin Laden’s and that is where they need to be focusing on, getting Osama Bin Laden.
Gates confirmation hearings set for December:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2641834