British Prime Minister Tony Blair has issued another dire warning about the need to address global climate change, focusing on a new British economic study that estimates warming could displace 200 million people and wreak economic losses on the order of the Great Depression and the World Wars unless an investment is made in green technologies.
The contrast between Blair and President Bush couldn’t be more striking.
Meanwhile, an in-depth New York Times article reports that for all the hype about replacing fossil fuels and reducing greenhouse gases, both U.S. private industry and government have been reducing spending on alternative energy research and development.
Federal spending on all energy research and development is less than half of what it was 25 years ago, adjusted for inflation.
America hasn’t started to take the threat seriously. Don’t say we weren’t warned.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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47 Comments
But…but…global warming is so darn inconvenient! Best to just chalk it up to a left-wing conspiracy.
Isn’t some asteriod supposed to wipe all life forms from the planet in a few years.
And if only if we could stop those cows from having such bad flatus, our environment would be so much better.
JM – “Isn’t some asteriod supposed to wipe all life forms from the planet in a few years.”
No.
Ben,
Okay, what about the cow flatus? :)
JM – I have posted numerous links on the topic. Yes, methan is one of the issues.
For some general background I suggest:
http://www.wunderground.com/education/education.asp
Beyond that I suggest a couple of college courses on climatology and paleoclimatology.
Don’t volcanos and deep sea vents belch more of the “bad” gasses that everything combined?I say we need to invest in really big corks.
Hasn’t the Earth been warming and cooling for millions of years? Has anyone ever heard of an ice age? Were there SUV’s driving around at the time of the last ice age? I don’t think so.
Now see? THIS is an important issue. The whole world knows global warming is real and yet we are doing almost nothing to address what role our activities may add to it.
But WHERE is all the media attention? Indeed, where are most of the posts right about now?
Kerry flubbed a joke! GOTCHA! It’s christmas at Halloween for those who would rather not address an issue that requires real thought and hard choices.
Mike – yes, I have heard of the ice ages. It is by studying them that we have developed our understanding of the climate system and mechanisms. And it is that understanding that has led my fellow scientists to sound the alarms today. I will give you the same advice I gave JM.
I gotta hand it to you, Hotlips.
You’re uniformly stupid on everything.
A perfect conservative.
I think I’m right about the volcanos and the deep sea vents tho. Corks any one?
Corks.
Does the person who has now twice mentioned corks have any REAL aspirations for intelligent discussion? Not here apparently.
Ben?
Maybe we should not call it global warming. Every time it snows out of season or we have a cool day in July the moron crowd yells “What global warming?”
It IS a global warming. But the effects on various parts of the planet can only be speculated at. It is more appropriately called “global climate change” or maybe “playing dice with the planet”
What is it you say Ben?
The great experiment continues?
So, we wreck the economy, spending untold money to try to fix something that we may not be able to fix. Then we have a big volcano erupt, or a few nukes go off in the Middle East throwing dust up everywhere. Or a small asteroid hits the earth in Gaphturkistan. So much for our efforts.
Common sense reductions in greenhouse gas production and conservation make sense. But to do anything drastic is short-sighted and arrogant. Arrogant because we think that our puny efforts can maintain planetary equilibrium.
jr-I’m just waiting for refutation of my statement. I could be waiting until hell freezes over.
Sorry, Ben.
“Know-it-all” scientists like you have totally blown the environmental issue by telling average folks like me for the past 30 years that we are 10 years away from destroying everything.
“Hell IS frozen over,” says Dante…
hl – go to the link I provided. Use that as a start. Then follow its links for more. Try going to school and taking a few science classes – particularly geology and climatology.
Outlander–
GW Bush has already increased the national debt by something like 25 percent WITHOUT dealing with global warming.
If that’s your beef, vote democratic.
Mike – NEVER have I nor anyone else said “we are 10 years away from destroying everything.”
Of course, know-nothing people like you prefer to hide behind your willful ignorance.
Ben,
I have suggested reading for you. Try the story about the little boy who cries, “Wolf!”
JR~ ‘intelligent discussion’ ?? Give me a break, ID’s hardly happen in these posts. And you are as guilty as anyone.Post your slanted views, put up 1/2 truths, think that you might convert someone, and then feel good about yourself.
Okay fine, then there is no problem.
And Mike joins hotlick in line for the dunce cap.
Kids.
Mike – I have read that too. Totally irrelevant to the current discussion.
Yes, JR, the great experiment continues …
A line that JR is the head of.
The left has no credibility on global warming or any other issue. This is the same left that lies too often to believed. This is the left that says Bush lied, Repubs are feudalists, Repubs only care about profit.Anybody remember stolen elections? Cutting your grass causes global warming. I’ll say it again, When you bitch about everything, you end up bitching about nothing. EVERYBODY PANIC!
Ben,
Actually, I’ve take a couple of collge courses in Geology. Also taken several courses in using bio-environmental measuring equipment in detecting and am reasonably familiar with dissipation rates of ‘toxic’ gases in the atmosphere.
My conclusion after hearing several professors, bio-environmental engineers and meteorologists speak on the topic of Global Warming is that know one can say with any degree of certainty what the actual effect of greenhouse gases are.
JM – and I guess my conclusion after extensive reading of the literature in the Climatology/paleolcimatology field is that we can make such conclusions.
My personal favorite:
“Hey, we didn’t have as many hurricanes this year as last…
“Ergo,Fire up my SUV!”
Actually Steve – we did have them. They just went elsewhere. A 180 mph one just hit the Phillipines and is now headed toward China.
Hotlick,
“Don’t volcanos and deep sea vents belch more of the “bad” gasses that everything combined?I say we need to invest in really big corks.”
You need to do some research, and stop believing BS from Rush (or whoever).
http://illconsidered.blogspot.com/2006/02/volcanos-emit-more-co2.html“The sum total of all volcanoes emit CO2 at a rate about 1/150th that of anthropogenic emissions.”(see the USGS link)
Lots of links re the Stern Review at top of http://illconsidered.blogspot.com/
outlander,
“Arrogant because we think that our puny efforts can maintain planetary equilibrium.”
Blindingly stupid arrogance: believing that our NOT “puny” anthropogenic emissions do not affect our climate.
Even stupidier, and insane: believing that there is no possibilty of a ‘tipping point’ — where natural, positive feedbacks could cause rapid, unstoppable climate change.
The debate on global warming is not about whether it is happening, but if humans caused it.The climate data collected from ice cores and plant remains show the climate makes a predictable sinus curve with crests of hot and troughs of ice age. The problem is that in recent years the curve temperature is increasing faster than ever recorded.Also in global average temperature,the highs keep getting higher and the lows keep getting higher. The time frame for the increase coincides with the proliferation of fossil fuel burning.So not only are we putting more co2 in the air but were cutting down the trees that remove co2. Very much burning the candle at both ends.The total affects and time of “global extermination” are purley conjucture. but the earth is warming. Remember, a fear mongering scientists is either a pseudo politician or in serious need of a grant.
Ben,
Here’s an excerpt from your Alma Mater MIT:
“Essentially if whatever you are told is alleged to be supported by ‘all scientists,’ you don’t have to understand [the issue] anymore. You simply go back to treating it as a matter of religious belief,” Lindzen said. His speech was titled, “Climate Alarmism: The Misuse of ‘Science’” and was sponsored by the free market George C. Marshall Institute.Lindzen is a professor at MIT’s Department of Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences.”
What say ye Ben?
BTW, that was just one example of dozens I found saying that Global Warming is a myth.
Global Warming on Pluto? Or is it Moon warming now. :)
“Chris Horner, a senior fellow at the free-market environmental think tank Competitive Enterprise Institute, attended the luncheon and pointed to the recent scientific indications that the planet Pluto is warming up despite moving away from the sun.
“Pluto’s warm-up is a reminder that no matter where you are climate happens. It always has, it always will — with or without SUVs. And it should remind us to continue taking with an ever-increasing grain of salt these claims that your car acts as a weather machine,” Horner said.”
cosmos,outlander wants all the flaws in the theory of evolution taught, too. His disdain for science is consistent, at least. I have to give him that much.
Very nice set of online studies by MIT’s Lindzen Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology, Department of Earth,Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences
http://www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen/PublicationsRSL.html
Consensus:
http://www.wunderground.com/education/928.asp
Models:
http://www.wunderground.com/education/hoax.asp
Abrupt change
http://www.wunderground.com/education/abruptclimate.asp
Lindzen:
http://www.realclimate.org/searchresults.php?q=lindzen&submit=Search&cx=000455696194071821846%3Arealclimate&client=google-coop-np&cof=GALT%3A808080%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A34374A%3BVLC%3AAA8610%3BAH%3Aleft%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BALC%3A66AA55%3BLC%3A66AA55%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A66AA55%3BGIMP%3A66AA55%3BFORID%3A11%3B
Lindzen: Point by point:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/04/lindzen-point-by-point/
JM
LINDZEN? Oh for crying out loud! Lindzen is a paid shill for the energy industries!
The last person to pull Lindzen here was Paul F Rosell. Paul has since proved that he is insane.
You walk a very shaky ground citing Lindzen JM!
J R,
Provide proof please.
Courtney – “predictable sinus curve with crests of hot and troughs of ice age.”
Actually, that is a sine curve, not sinus. That said, it should be noted that we are going far outside of the envelope of that variation. THAT is the reason for concern.
The Milankovitch cycles over the past million years (with continents where they are today) have been well studied. Temperature and CO2 have varied in somewhat lockstep with orbital variations and a positive feedback loop. We have superimposed upon that the anthropogenic CO2 contribution. As a result of that current CO2 levels are as much higher than an interglacial maximum as that maximum is greater than a glacial minimum. THAT is what my fellow scientists are concerned about.
YOU might believe that science is “purley conjucture” just like we were told that the link between smoking and desease was “purley conjucture”. However, the vast majority of those who study such things seriously do not.
JM – go to my last two links.
Randy:Maybe if we elected politicians that took global warming serious that would be a start.
What about Todd Tiahrt? What has he done about it.
Maybe if he were pressured to debate, we could find out.
How could we even think about sending Tiahrt back to Washington without knowing his thoughts about the actions of the GOP on things liking pulling from kyoto…
Does he plan another 2 years of status quo regarding global warming..
If so don’t the people that live in the fourth congressional district have a right to know..
Even Kansas University has scientific proof that global warming is very real.
It has received national recognition for its research.
JM,
“Chris Horner, a senior fellow at the free-market environmental think tank Competitive Enterprise Institute,”
FACTSHEET: Competitive Enterprise Institute, CEIhttp://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/orgfactsheet.php?id=2“Competitive Enterprise Institute has received $2,005,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.”
Also funding from Scaife, Ford, Phillip Morris, Texaco, etc..http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Competitive_Enterprise_Institute
Here’s a hoot!http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Smoking_as_a_civic_dutyCEI policy analyst Alexander Volokh went even further. “Perhaps, in the fine tradition of civil disobedience championed by Thoreau, we should even think of smoking as a civic duty,” he wrote in the July 1994 issue of the CEI Update
Ben,
Oh yeah, the words ‘widely discredited’ were used. I guess that’s that then. He used two words to discredit a scientific paper without doing any research on his own.
Yep, that’s the way science is, no research, just write something down and its true.
Ben
sinus was short for sinusoidal… the same as a sine wave.
I didn’t say science was conjucture. the science is real. The people saying Yew york will be under 40ft of water in 10 years is what I was talking about.
Maybe your too dense to see that I was listing evidence FOR global warming, It’s the “scare science” i don’t approve of.Who are your fellow scientist? I didn’t know much global climate research went on in wichita.
Courtney,
“The people saying Yew york will be under 40ft of water in 10 years is what I was talking about.”
Scientists don’t say that. Are denialists/skeptics making that bogus claim as a false argument?
10 years is a possible future ‘tipping point’, when natural positive feedbacks may become unstoppable.
40 feet of water is both Greenland and Antarctica melting — probably centuries from now, but time unknown, especially if ‘tipping point’ causes a rapid change.