We’ve steered clear of the allegations about evangelical leader Ted Haggard because the initial source looked shaky and the timing seemed suspect.
Now that Haggard has left his pulpit, resigned as president of the National Association of Evangelicals, and a church leader has confirmed “some admission of guilt” — well, let’s just say the blood is in the water.
The allegations first aired Tuesday on a Denver radio station: A guy claiming to be a male prostitute said he had a three-year sexual relationship with Haggard. If that wasn’t enough to make fundamentalist heads start exploding, he also said the preacher used meth during their encounters.
Given that Haggard has been a leader of a Colorado effort to ban same-sex marriages, it’s an understatement to say this is going to have some political fallout, no matter how it ends.
For the record, Haggard denies both the gay sex and the drug use. And James Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family, denounced the story as a politically motivated attack — just before Haggard put himself on administrative leave.
Posted by Dave Knadler
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114 Comments
The interim said there was some indescretion, but would only say that it was not quite what Jones had said.
Sounds like Haggard’s going down though. (pun intended) HA.
Now, I don’t think the accuser should be treated well either,after all, his claim says he’s a male prostitute.No WAIT A MINUTE…..I forgot, THE WHITE HOUSE HIRES MALE ‘ESCORT’ as a phony planted news reporter, to pitch GW ’softball’ questions (all the while barring Maureen Dowd).
Hmmmm………..NEVERMIND.We need to treat this guy like the queen he is!!
I wish the Eagle would keep up. C’mon Dave, its a fast moving world out there. You already missed the fact that the accuser failed his staged lie detector test. For what that is worth.
Ditto everything I said on the “Halping Kerry” thread about this. Hey Dave, pull those posts over to this thread would ya? Thankee kindly.
outlander – YOU missed the part where the pastor stated that Haggard had admitted at least parts of this.
For Americans who have just not paid attention and are just now getting around to evaluating the so-called values voters, here’s a clue.
Values voters wouldn’t know good leadership or a real leader if he hit ‘em on the head with a 2×4. Or didn’t.
As a Christian, I think it shows very clearly the folly of forcing people to hide their sexuality (I mean look at how much encouragement he got and he still could not do it and look at the many other Christian leaders we have forced into hiding).I do believe, after years of prayer and introspection, that our homosexual brothers and sisters are exactly that–brothers and sisters. I feel bad for everyone involved and it is time for us to really search our hearts and minds about the nature of human sexuality. We must remember that we will all be held accountable not just for our action but for our lack of action. We will be held accountable not just for our actions but for our judgments and treatment of Jesus’ creation. It is very clear to me how much of a failure and hurtful–really–the policy of the church has been.
Except for the church involved and the folks involved, this story matters exactly . . . . why?
Hmmmmmmmm…I don’t think I have stated one way or another whether I believe this story. How could anyone here know? Nor have I defended Haggard. As much as you might like to have someone to argue with, well, it isn’t me. I’m gonna just wait and see how it turns out.
And outlander omitted the part where the expert administering the test cast doubt on the result, and said that a retake in a week or so would give a more accurate result.
Once somebody resigns, ‘nothing to see here’ ceases to be an option. Particularly when the ’somebody’ is a high-profile Religious Right hater like Ted Haggard.
well said J.Roberts
When Ted Haggard played Little League Baseball, was he a pitcher or a catcher?
GMC70,
Let me explain it for you: high profile evangelical pastor / national leader spearheads anti-gay marriage initiatives, and then turns out to be a meth-doing man-lover. Or a meth-loving man-doer. Or whatever.
Let’s just say it’s further confirmation of the Democratic frame regarding the pervasiveness of right wing hypocrisy and corruption at the highest levels of power–as if further confirmation were needed.
Gleeful? Me? Nah. Well, just a bit.
If Matt Drudge reported this then the Eagle would have been on this in a second.
Very funny.
CF
“High profile”? Never heard of him.
Neither side has any corner on the hypocrisy market. All it really shows is that he’s human and therefore fallible. Trying to give this to some Rep/Dem political meaning is not only disingenuous, it’s shameful.
Breaking news – MSNBC – Haggard admits to buying meth and meeting the male prostitute at a Denver motel for a “massage.”
Forget about the lie detector test, the perp has confessed.
The issue isn’t his church or his family: it is his hypocrisy and his connections to the White House.
Remember, he has had a WEEKLY conference call with Karl Rove and the WH staff with other conservative Christians.
This is one of the men leading the charge AGAINST gay marriage……
Hypocrisy, thy name is Republican.
You can always tell who the pathetic little bitches are.Trolls.
Between him going after gays,and foley going after pedophiles,This is just sickening.
“Trying to give this to some Rep/Dem political meaning is not only disingenuous, it’s shameful.”
You trash Democrats for every hic-up, then claims that THIS is not an issue with political meaning?
Refresh my memory, but isn’t it the Repubs that are soooooo against gay marriage?
The good Reverend is entitled to any kind of consensual sex with adult, far as I’m concerned.
But the simple fact that he is a self-righteous, Bible-beating, lying, lowdown, sleeze-ball hypocrite and snake-oil salesman is not a good sign.
WS, they are bitchen’ about a tactic they created.Get a couple of choice words, like gay & prostitute, then manage to get them in front of the public many times in connection with your political opponents.Allegations are fine.When the story dies, all people will remember, are your bad words in connection with your opponent.Even if the allegations are false, the damage is done.Okay all you Rush fans, your guy perfected this tactic.You know it’s true.
Jeez, do ya think that a Repub would falsely SMEAR an opponent?
Nah, couldn’t happen.
(Pssssssssst, sarcasm alert.)
“You trash Democrats for every hic-up, then claims that THIS is not an issue with political meaning?”
Point out to me where I have attacked Democrats for similar circumstances. I’ll wait.
And somebody mentioned Merle Haggard as a joke.Just have to point out one more time that Merle has spoken and written songs in protest of MR. Bush.When you’ve lost Merlewho needs the dixie chicks?
“Point out to me where I have attacked Democrats for similar circumstances. I’ll wait.”
Ah, Democrats don’t have that level of hypocrisy regarding gay relationships, therefore there is not a SIMILAR circumstance.
BTW – The YOU was generic, regarding the trashing of Democrats, but I’ll review your posts for back up.
How about the trashing of Gore for botching a bad joke?
1. Gore didn’t botch it, Kerry did.
2. I’m not at all convinced that his statement WAS a botched joke.
Yes, Kerry. I stand corrected. It WAS botched; he had already said other one-lineres directed at the cokehead-in-chief.
Meanwhile, on another front, I guess Ted Haggard didn’t swallow …
Evangelist admits meth, massage, no sexCATHERINE TSAIAssociated PressCOLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. – Evangelist Ted Haggard admitted Friday that he bought methamphetamine and received a massage from a gay prostitute who claims he was paid for drug-fueled trysts by the outspoken gay marriage opponent.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/breaking_news/15914276.htm
Wait, wait, wait, wait. Stop the presses. Hold the phone. Back this behemoth up. A right-wing evangelical anti-gay Bible-thumper engaging in utter hypocrisy, fucking men while high on meth? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
FUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG
WWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Has anyone seen the Jesus Camp videos? This guy’s hypocrisy is revolting.Did Haggard choose to be gay, putting himself in a position with such danger to damage his career permanently? I think he’d prefer to be the straight man he pretended to be, don’t you? A lot of closeted gays try meth to loosen their inhibitions and engage in the sex they find so shameful.This is Jones’ alleged massage ad, so if there’s any doubt that Haggard didn’t solicit him for sex, they should disappear now:http://pageoneq.com/news/2006/page110207.htmlSo, was his being gay a choice? I think if he wasn’t so self-loathing, he could have dealt with his sexuality in a much healthier way than contacting hookers and snorting meth.
Hubris. The Greeks knew it and nobody ever remembers it. It will get you every time.
Judeo-Christianity is going to be thoroughly discredited, just like our rotten, evil multiracial “democracy”. We are in Weimar America folks, and the great cleansing is soon coming.
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!
Hey everbody, Ian’s gonna’ take a bath!!
Haggard…is the way he going to look as the days and weeks go by.Human sexuality should not be up for debate. It is what it is. God gave it to all of us.If Haggard and his church of demons understood this then maybe he could have come out, divorced, and be a leading force in American discourse concerning homosexuality.Give me a break. Hopefully rather than contunuing the hate, the NEW LIFE clan will reflect upon their message.
Good luck on that Jim.He’s a saved man, remember?He’ll live forever despite his sins.Ain’t that dandy?
Prediction: Haggard will check into rehab within a few days.
He can bunk with Foley.Won’t that be interesting?
GMC70,
Please. Ted Haggard went with the tried and true GOP tactic of negatively politicizing homosexuality. His hypocrisy is absolutely emblematic, since his sexual practices absolutely contradict his political goals and stated beliefs.
As for his alibi, sounds familiar. I once heard a gay acquaintance say ‘I’ll do all-over body massages–but I don’t do the butt thing.’
Ted Haggard, let’s hear it: “say it loud, I’m gay (or bi) and I’m proud!”
hmmm,
My thoughts exactly. Time for an extreme, gay-to-straight makeover.
Honesty pays, but it doesn’t seem to pay enough to suit some people…..Kin Hubbard
More GOP morals …
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/11/02/gop-rep-sherwood-paying-ex-mistress-about-500k/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.yahoo.com%2Fs%2Fap%2F20061102%2Fap_on_el_ho%2Fcongressman_settlement&frame=true
Rep. paying ex-mistress about $500K By MICHAEL RUBINKAM, Associated Press WriterThu Nov 2, 5:59 PM ET
ALLENTOWN, Pa. – A Republican congressman accused of abusing his ex-mistress agreed to pay her about $500,000 in a settlement last year that contained a powerful incentive for her to keep quiet until after Election Day, a person familiar with the terms of the deal told The Associated Press.
So, I’m wondering if Ted Haggard’s Man 2 Man massages featured a “happy ending?”
Just a shot in the dark.
Knadler posts news on Nun that stole money from her momma’s purse at the age of nine!
Zzzzzzzz
Sorry, not interested. Never heard of this Colorado minister until it was in the news.
Hear about the world’s greatest defense lawyer? He once got a case of criminal sodomy dismissed; the other party was given a traffic ticket for inattentive backing.
;)
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
GMC, I forgive you.
GMC – don’t need to firgive you. It was funny!
;^)
Painting the entire GOP with the brush when some perv minister or perv congressman gets in trouble is silly. Last I looked, there is a large number of democrat leaning individuals in prison, but it’s not something I would bash the democrats with. There are too many other things.
Do you mean like this bullshit broad brush?
“The only gaffe Kerry made was to remind voters, in this last week of a campaign, that the libs hate the military and cannot be trusted to defend this country.
Posted by: hotlick | November 02, 2006 at 01:42 PM “
That is different and it’s not bullshit. It is a fact that the libs can’t be trusted to defend this country.It is not a fact that if you are GOP, then you are a perv.
hahaha
Sorry; the fats are that Dems and Liberals WILL defend the country but that Righties are closeted perverts.
All I know is that they haven’t. Carter didn’t. Clinton didn’t. You people are against the Patriot Act, the Al Quieda surveillence program and on and on. As far as being closeted pervs, what are you wearing right now?
hotlick:
Don’t say I didn’t warn you. If you’re gonna debate with bright people, you better do so intelligently, not just take cheap shots.
And if you’re gonna accuse of tarring with a broad brush, it’s best not to tar with a broad brush.
That’s enough out of you.Everything I have said is true. I suspect that you are a GMC troll.
No, hotlick, it’s me.
and again, don’t say I didn’t warn you. A few days ago, on another thread. Remember the Lib = coward line you spouted?
It’s not like I disagree with your point (not the one a few days ago, mind you), but you’ve done exactly the same thing you accuse those “libs” of.
Glass houses. Stones. Don’t play well together.
Darn it — WhO is supposed to be watching Hot lick? —
HLS’ name alone makes him eligible for Life time membership into NAMBLA —
NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MAN – BOY LOVE of AMERICA
Makes you really think that it’s true, the ones who holler loudest are the guiltiest.
Ya know, I always said Terry Fox’s little prayer circles of men looked like they lingered in each other’s arms a little long.
I saw the Ted Haggard interview, he’s as gay as the day is long. Too bad he’s so uncomfortable with his sexuality that he’s made such a great effort to stay in the closet.
Ted Haggard is obsessed about gay sex and actively opposes it.
Mark Foley is obsessed about internet sex predators.
Phill Kline is obsessed about sex with teenagers and actively opposes it.
Ted Haggard is revealed to be banging a gay prostitute (who didn’t have a White House press pass).
Mark Foley is revealed to be being a pervert towards minors over the internet.
What’s Phill Kline’s story that he’s hiding?
I don’t expect the Evangelical Chirstians to be shocked or disappointed in Haggard. I fully expect these sheeple to continue worshiping their idols (Haggard and money) and try to twist this into some political grandstanding of the Democrats making.
But what this scandal may just do is to ignite the moderates and Independents to go into the voting booth and vote to get the Christian Right out of politics once and for all.
The majority of the Americans are fed up with these self-serving, sanctimonios, pious, lying, cheating, greed and power hungry so-called Christians.
You reap what you sow and it looks like Haggard is just having his chickens coming home to roost.
political_mom,
Damn–that’s some funny-ass shit about the prayer circles, ah tell you what.
Prayer circles, or cover for a circle jerk?
Does anybody remember an evangelical by the name of Jimmy Swaggart? Swaggart, Foley, Haggard, the list of high-profile hypocrites just keeps on growing! I just don’t know anymore about Christianity. I’m getting pretty sick of its leaders.
Islam is looking attractive at the moment.
Don’t forget Jim Baker, Jesse Jackson, and numerous Catholic priests. What is it about pervs that they gravitate toward religion?
I don’t know, do they find repressed sexuality appealing?
Maybe because they like the position of authority, and the close proximity with children.
creepy
Elmer Gantry strikes again. All of these guys are in that mold.
So what percentage of Christian ministers do you suppose that is? Hadn’t thought of that? It is a very minute, tiny percentage.
Of course it sucks, but it is played to the hilt by the media. They love it when supposed paragons of virtue slip into the gutter. Especially when they think it might have an effect in a political season. It is just the nature of some folks to gloat in other’s stupidity and misfortune. Just look at the posts here if you want evidence of that.
Haggard is a basic unknown to proably 99% of evangelicals. He was to me, and I am pretty well informed. He heads an organization of organizations. This thing will have next to no effect on voter turnout or choice. It is, as most things are, blown all out of proportion by media and hopeful partisans.
Outlander,Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t it Evangelicals who distorted the truth about the majority of Catholic priests being pedophiles in attempts at converting disillusioned Catholics to Evangelical Christianity?
You reap what you sow.
“Haggard is a basic unknown to proably 99% of evangelicals.”
Besides the point, Outie. He WAS well-known to the circle-jerks of power (sorry, couldn’t resist that one!).
The more interesting question for me is the personal contradictions. Is it simple arrogance (they won’t nail me with the framework of persecution I’M supporting), or just stupidity? Or maybe simple denial. . . no, I’m not like that! I’m not EEEVIL! But I’m weak. . . one more time. . .
Or. . . hehehe! Look at the rubes throw me money, and hang on my every word, while I do whatever the hell *I* want anyway! That was certainly the Jim-and-Tammy model.
I honestly don’t know.
Hey Rage, there’s nothing wrong with a little “sword fighting” between a gay prostitute and a closet-homosexual Evangelical Christian who is the head of the anti-gay marriage movement of Colorado. Where’s the story there!? I mean, look how insignificant Haggard is, James Dobson commented on his situation! I mean, EVERYBODY KNOWS that when JAMES DOBSON chastises one of his evangelical co-conspirators that said individual is just a small fish in a big pond!
WHAT A NON-ISSUE!!!
He was sure a frequent visitor at the White House. Funny how whenever a Dem does something dumb you righties paint with a broad brush but let one of yours do it and “we don’t know him” – DeLay, Cunningham, Foley, Baker, Haggart …
Will – Dobson was one of the names with Falwell and Haggart on the link I posted about the meetings with Bush.
Yee-haw, another apostate, “judeo-Christian” bites the dust.
God Laughs!
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Ben,You didn’t catch the sarcasm in my last post, bub.
Ian,I don’t see how a “traditionalist Catholic” like yourself could be excited about the besmirching of Judeo-Christianity. Granted that you are completely off your rocker, I am certainly not surprised.
OOPS! ;^)
Sometimes I have been known to post a sarcasm and then follow with /sarcasm off.
Mea culpa! I had a long work day today and am a bit burned out.
That’s okay Ben.
After all, to err is human…
Yeah, let a Dem leader like Kerry screw up telling a lame and tasteless joke, and the evangelicals come pouring out of the woodwork like po’d worker bees just looking for a fight. Any fight.
Let one of the queen bee evangelical leaders (yeah pun there) cop to massages and meth but no sex — LOL. Uh huh, yeah right, ok — and it’s a total non-issue. Nothing here, move on people!
LOL
As kfg would say, Jesus wept over the hypocrisy displayed by the fundies in their POLITICAL dimension. Yeah, they retain their mojo over religious matters because they repent (etc.), but in the POLITICAL realm their currency is suddenly and rightfully reduced to zero, nada, laughable.
Outlander, call for Hazzard to remain a sectarian leader but abandon his poliitics, and you’ll not be accused of hypocrisy.
Spritiual leader, ok. Political leader, joke. Otherwise, you get what you got RIGHTFULLY coming.
… and to mess things up this much requires a computer!
;^)
good one!
Outlander,”Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t it Evangelicals who distorted the truth about the majority of Catholic priests being pedophiles in attempts at converting disillusioned Catholics to Evangelical Christianity?
You reap what you sow.” -Will
Um Will. I don’t know. I hadn’t heard that one. Is it true?
I sure didn’t. I came from a big family, all Catholics. Sure, there are doctrinal differences, I consider Catholics my brothers and sisters and my political allies.
After the allegations were made public, Haggard resigned as president of the influential National Association of Evangelicals, an umbrella group representing more than 45,000 churches with 30 million members.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/03/haggard.allegations/index.html
Whoa whoa whoa! Back up a bit!
This guy was the PRESIDENT of the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF EVANGELICALS which represents MORE THAN FOURTY-FIVE THOUSAND CHURCHES with THIRTY MILLION MEMBERS.
Damn. Now we should expect this to be aired on the news, on daytime talk shows, and have frivolous lawsuits from people looking to cash in on this incident. Then and only then can Evangelicals reach Roman Catholics in the corruption status!
Ah whatever Outie! All’s fair in love and “sheep-stealing!”
:)
“Outlander, call for Hazzard to remain a sectarian leader but abandon his poliitics, and you’ll not be accused of hypocrisy.”
I don’t think I’ll have that opportunity Pedant. First off, you will find no where that I have defended Haggard. But he is history in all of his leadership capacities.
All of them, outlander?
I assume you mean that there is no resurrection as even church leader (or pastor or whatever)?
I think the chances are good that Haggard will lead Christians again, if only in a future congregation of his own building. Christian leadership seems to depend far more on factors related to human attraction than on factors related to religious principles.
I think this is only normal or natural, but surely its truth demands that all of us humans recognize this limitation. Do you think this recognition is well accomplished by evangelical political leaders and their voters today?
I don’t, and not by a long shot.
Again, that’s the problem with sectarian leadership: it depends far more on the leadership of wo/men than it does on leadership of Christians. Which is where, naturally, sectarian leadership becomes blind when it comes to political or secular leadership in the US. In other words, sectarian leaders like Haggard often stray into secular areas inappriately or at least hypocritically.
When they do so, they hurt more than their political cause, they hurt their sectarian reasons as well. Of course I realize that you probably think ok, JC can take that.Thing is, do you willingly absorb the time lag that such missteps neccesitate, in generational terms?
At any rate, I take your repudiation of Haggard as a political leader as a sign of your own integrity. (fwtw to you, which is probaby not much…although I do respect your response :))
This is the best article I’ve read about this sad and tragic situation.http://www.cbn.com/blogs/vonbuseck/061102_Haggard.aspx
Isn’t it funny how God works in mysterious ways? The truth ALWAYS comes out about these so-called Christian leaders.
The sad fact remains though is that there will still be sheeple who will not believe it or try to condone the behavior as a man who is a mere sinner.
But their argument falls on deaf ears when it has been these same so-called Christian leaders who have preached fire and brimstone to the rest of us because we do not worship their “true God”.
Chickens are coming home to roost and it is never a pretty sight.
Pedant: Sometimes religious leaders form alliances with political leaders for whatever reason. I agree it is at that point that they do run the danger of becoming too involved in politics to the detriment of their religion and its purpose.
And of course, men (and women) are fallible. That is why we shouldn’t be surprised when people in leadership roles let us down. In secular politics, if someone lets you down, well that’s all there is.
It’s different with religious leaders. An episode like this should serve to remind Christians that we shouldn’t think of ourselves as followers of Ted Haggert, or Joe Wright, or whoever. Christians are followers of Christ, and should keep their focus on Him.
Nice little speech outlander but what does it mean?
Any Christian leader that puts themself above the rest of the people and has weekly conference calls with George W. Bush should be held to a higher accountability.
Ted Haggard lied when he was confronted with the news story also. Is this really the type of people we want in our political scene with so much influence over Bush?
And, if this was Bill Clinton’s preacher – would you be as kind to him as just being a “fallible person”?
Christian Conservatives have made their stance that the secular world is so full of sin but yet when it is one of their own doing the same thing – then you all want forgiveness.
Is Haggard wanting forgiveness because he is a sinner or because he got caught?
Thousands cheer, chant, and clap as one of their own is proudly carried toward the lofty pedestal.The audience urges him up the stairway, step by step, higher and higher, far above the masses on the prominant platform.The media is there with lights, cameras and prime-time coverage.Publishers huddle around the base, for they know pedestal-people sell well.The crowds on satelite hook-ups hang on every last world, for he seesm so close to eternity.Yet he feels unsure, unworthy, afraid and very alone . . .But at that height no one notices, no one questions, no one confronts.And so, in a split second, the trap door swings, the noose tightens, the crowd gasps.Undeterred, the mob moves on to build more pedestals; to encourage another of their own up the starlit steps.But mostly to wonder why those at the pinnacle keep falling from the heights.
The above was written by James Watkins.
http://watkins.gospelcom.net/
One has only oneself to blame if he/she falls from grace. Ted Haggard tried lying his way out of this mess at first and then when the gay man accuser provided recording of Haggard’s voice mail, that’s when Haggard confessed.
Doesn’t sound like the sinner was really repenting of the sin – he was just trying to scapegoat and then finally confessed to only partial of the allegations to save his hide.
Just another so-called Christian leader who was out to line his own pockets with millions of dollars by fleecing as many sheeple as possible.
Conservative Christians are their own worst nightmare.
Jesus save us from your ministers.
What I think is sad is the way he stated he “struggled with his dark side”, as if being homosexual means that you’re somehow evil. Now they think they’re going to turn him around from his gay tendancies so he can become the faithful heterosexual he once was. He’ll be forgiven, go back into the closet and everyone will be thankful for the “intervention”.
It’s only when the church acccepts the fact that sexual identity isn’t a choice will the condemnation and self hatred stop. Heterosexuals aren’t “tempted” to be gay. The guy IS gay and he can’t do anything about it except not to act on his feelings. I feel sorry for him, because it’s his denial of his sexuality and the belief that his feelings are a “choice” that has caused him and his family so much pain.
Mary. This guy had thoughts that he CHOSE to act upon, to his, his family’s, and his faith’s detriment. He knew it was wrong. That makes him confused and dumb, not gay.
If you believe in a devil, he attacked Haggard at his vulnerable point and brought him down.
I don’t believe outlander can really be that stupid. Evangelicals have preached that homesexuality is a choice. Even if the devil is tempting someone, if that person does not already homosexual tendancies then the same person would not be tempted to be gay just because the devil made him do it.
Evangelicals cannot have it both ways – Ted Haggard “chose” to be with that gay man and, according to your own definition, Haggard must be a gay man.
Saying people choose to be gay is rather like saying they choose to like broccoli–only dumber. I’ve not seen any evidence for an “acquired sexuality.”
Oh really. Why is it that when one “converts” from heterosexual to homosexual, they are praised as being truthful and honest. But if it’s homo to hetero, it is dishonest and they are living a lie.
The WNBA’s most valuable player was once married and then became involved in a homoexual relationship. She commented: “Do I think I was born this way? No,” Swoopes said. “And that’s probably confusing to some, because I know a lot of people believe that you are.”
In other words, at least for her, it was a choice.
The devil made him do it. This from a proponent of personal responsibility for one’s actions~!
Haggard’s behavior doesn’t change nor discredit the fact that Jesus is … the Lord, the truth and the light. Haggard’s actions doesn’t change Scripture’s directives for how to live. It is simply wrong to contend that Haggard’s sins should reflect on other Christians nor diminish the faith.
Russ – I don’t think anyone is raising that question; just about all those Elmer Gantry types masquerading as men of God.
“Oh really. Why is it that when one “converts” from heterosexual to homosexual, they are praised as being truthful and honest.”
Straw-man. People don’t convert; they typical come out after failed attempts at leading “normal” heterosexual lives. They were always gay.
There are also bisexuals, too, you know.
But since you’re so certain it’s only a choice, Outie, then why not tell us all about your well-controlled desire for hunky, hard manlove? It’s okay. You’re among friends.
When Haggard is telling 30 million people how to vote, and he was, then it’s not about christ or faith any longer.Being a regular on the white house hotline means the church should be paying taxes as a PAC.
Good point, Rage. All those who fundies who say it’s a choice must be in the closet because obviously they have homosexual feelings that they “choose” not to act upon. I can honestly say I’ve never been sexaully attracted to another woman, in fact the thought of it really grosses me out. I’ve never been “tempted”, so I think it’s safe to say I was born with a heterosexual predisposion.
“People don’t convert; they typical come out after failed attempts at leading “normal” heterosexual lives. They were always gay.”
I just gave you the example of Cheryl Swoopes, which disproves your statement.
“But since you’re so certain it’s “only a choice, Outie, then why not tell us all about your well-controlled desire for hunky, hard manlove? It’s okay. You’re among friends.” – Rage
I was wondering when some moron would give up logic and lower themselves to that insult. Wouldn’t have thought it would be you, Rage.
Anybody with any knowledge of human behavior, knows there is a range of human experiences for anything, sexual attraction included. For instance some folks maybe tempted by food more than others. Some by drink. Some are self-disciplined. Some can’t resist anything.
But in today’s world,if a person has any kind of homosexual urge, and they act upon it, they are being “true to themselves”, even if that person thinks it immoral. That is harmful and simply BS. A person may have an urge to steal something, but that does not make them a thief. And acting on a harmful urge does not make one “true to themselves”.
While many here are “bursting at the gut” with glee over Ted Haggards fall – it is no laughing matter. There is nothing funny about this “scandal.”
I first met Ted Haggard as we launched our paper in Colorado. There are no “winners” in this scenerio. Take a closer look if you think this is a “win” for the homosexual community. It’s ugly no matter how you look at it.
Non are above sin and all are tempted. Our modern culture lacks self-discipline to pursue self-gratification, regardless the persuation.
It is a victory for the anti-ElmerGantry people. Those of us who realize that giving someone like Haggard total power (through merging church and state) is very dangerous for our Republic.
No, RJones, I think it’s sad that this man felt it so important to demonize the very people he is like. What I’d like the christian community to stop doing is forcing people like Haggard to hide who they really are, to accept them so they don’t HAVE to hurt so many people while they live out their lie. It IS who they are.
“Demonize” is your word. What folks are failing to do is understand many Christians are simply trying to be faithful to what Scripture says. Many don’t get up in the morning and determine the “rule” for the day. The Bible serves as that guide. Each day comes the opportunity to either follow or not to follow.
But, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Take “God” out of it and it still doesn’t make since… the gay community wants an endorsement on something that just isn’t natural. Has nothing to do with “demons” – you know… love the person, but challenge the sin… using biblical terms.
I have yet to hear someone give a correct definition of Haggard’s sexual orientation. He is married to a woman, correct? So he was having sexual intercourse with her. If he is capable of that, then shouldn’t he be classified as bisexual? Furthermore, I would like to see some definitive evidence that homosexuality, heterosexuality, and bisexuality are indeed biological and if such a “gay gene” exists, is it possible to manipulate it?
However… sin is only sin to only those who use Scripture as their guide. Without that we’ll never be able to agree. Having said that – we are to be “graceful” with those whom we encounter.
It’s also clear “teachers of the Word” will be held to a higher standard. That is what is so painful with Ted Haggard… of which he is certainly aware.
Will, there are studies that suggest that sexual preference is predisposed, you just have to look.One of my best friends has a son who starting showing his gay tendancies around the age of 3, long before he knew what sex was. He fought it for years and pretended to like girls, but he was got so depressed as a teenager and, of course, he was teased mercilessly at school because he was so effeminate. There is no way he would have “chose” to be the way he is, because he struggled against it for so long. He’s doing much better now that he’s “out” and realizes that we all love him and support him no matter what.One can’t choose their feelings, it’s what they do with their feelings that makes the difference. All I know is that everyone has the right to love and intimacy.
For crying out loud outie…
Haggard was named by TIME magazine as one of the 25 MOST POWERFUL EVANGELICALS in the United States.
Yet you say 99% of evangelicals dont know who he is?
heheheheh. Six impossible things before breakfast.
And jonesie, if you think this is some kind of win for the gay community, you must have brown eyes being that full of shit.
We dont want him. He says he isnt gay, just committed moral indescretion or some such weasel phrase.
He’s all yours. Republican. Christian. A straight man having gay sex. Meth addict.
Yep. He’s not one of mine. He’s ALL YOURS…
Just like Foley. Read hankie’s spin on foley if you wanna see some real mid air twisting and gymnastics.
heheheh. They’re yours. Claim ‘em.
What’s this?
James Dobson QUITS the Haggard counseling team?
WTF? He’s too busy? hehehehehehhehe
http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?date=2006/11/07/6
SSSooo much ugliness and hate on here!! Thank you for a great article DM! I agree with both Rjones and outlander. Jesus was the only person with out sin!! We (Christians) all intentionally try to not sin. That includes preachers/ministers/priests!
Instead of all you good Christians “trying not to sin”, why don’t you all just NOT sin? Is it really so hard to live a moral life and treat others as you’d want to be treated?