It was shocking to learn in recent days of the effect the 69 seized pit bulls have had on the Wichita Animal Shelter. They have cost $30,000 and “essentially shut down the animal shelter for its essential purpose — to claim strays from the community and hold them until their owners claim them,” Assistant City Attorney Jay Hinkel told Sedgwick County District Judge Eric Yost last week.
The shelter reportedly has been turning away owners looking to put their animals up for adoption, as well as wannabe adoptive pet owners. The only apparent solution to the problem is for the city to kill the remaining 51 dogs, pending the owner’s appeal. Add in the city’s lack of openness regarding the effect of the pit bulls on the shelter’s operations, and you have a regrettable mess.
Worse, two children were living in the Wichita house when the dogs were seized in July — a house so reeking of urine that it sickened a police officer and at least two animal control workers.
Reports of the pit bulls’ aggressive behavior at the shelter surely affirm the rule against putting up such dogs for adoption. But that raises a question Wichitans love to argue: Should a breed viewed as unsuitable for adoption by the city’s animal shelter be lawful to own?
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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73 Comments
Have the City Attorney collect the fee from the owner. If all the dogs were housed in that filthy house; condemn the house; level the house; sell the land; pay for the bill; euthanize the dogs.
I don’t know if the holding a canine breed unsuitable for ownwership in Wichita would work or not.
Wichita could make it very expensive and put up very restrictive requirements to own a pit bull.
This is a shocking story. Unfortunately it is pretty common when pit bulls are seized from suspected dog fighters that shelters become overwhelmed. The dogs are so aggressive toward each other that they have to be housed in single runs, and the shelter is often the target of people looking to steal the fighting dogs back. (Dog fighters are, by definition, folks who commit violent crimes) so security costs are raised.
Add to the fact that dog fighting is EXTREMELY difficult to prove (I am not even sure it is seriously alleged in this case, but what other reason does anybody have to have 69 pit bulls?) and is it any wonder that law enforcement sometimes decides that a dog fighting bust isn’t worth it to the municipality?
The solution isn’t a breed ban, but it is strong breed specific regulations that requires spay/neuter of every pit bull except AKC/UKC show dogs. Nobody wants to take pit bulls from responsible owners, but responsible owners already spay/neuter their pet pit bulls. Dog fighters (and mass pit bull breeders) will NOT spay/neuter their dogs. There has to be an easy way to seize them and put these kinds of breeding operations out of business without enormous cost and animal suffering. Aside from the cost involved, think of all the dogs who died because they didn’t have a chance to be adopted by responsible so that these poor doomed pit bulls could live in cages for a few months?
Betsy
There is no safe pit bull dog. I had one, I did everything right, I took her to professional obedience classes, it was supposed to be a family dog, was indoors most of the time. AND THAT DOG STILL ATTACKED A CHILD.
We really wanted a lab, but the shelter only had a young pit bull puppy, so we opted to take her instead. Since she was so young, we really felt that it was true that pit bulls were only mean if you trained them to be.
The belief that a good family raises a nonviolent pit bull and a bad family raises a violent pit is NOT TRUE. I cannot stress that enough. And the longer this myth keeps circulating, the more people are going to trust their pit to be non-aggressive and there will be a bad outcome for someone.
PeeMom,Just because you don’t have the skills to manage a dog…
I know many people that own pit bulls, and they are intelligent, protective, quality dogs. If you can’t control/train your dog, then ANY breed can be dangerous.
I agree. It is pretty typical of people to blame the breed when it is their own incompetence as a dog trainer that causes problems. If you can’t show your dog who’s boss, you need to stick with miniature poodles.
I agree with pmom.It’s a naturally aggressive and unpredictable breed.I have no problem banning, destroying, whatever.You can’t over-ride instinctual behavior with any amount of training.Siegfreid and Roy anyone?
Ksgolfnuts typical personal attack on Political_Mom aside, one can not reasonably conclude either that a pit bull is invariably violent from one person’s experience, or conclude the converse that the person who points out that their pit bull attacked a child that any pit bull raised with proper compassion and discipline will do so. Dogs are individual personalities much as humans are. There are consistent traits within breeds, but there is considerable variation within breeds. One of the problems with pit bulls is that because they can bite with so much more force than most dogs (and indeed they have correspondingly larger teeth) the stakes are much higher when they do attack (which means that an attack that may result in some painful bites from one breed will be fatal or truly mauling when committed by a pit bull).
Dog fighting is reprehensible, and Betsy is right: The Wichita Animal Shelter had better enhance their security.
For those who think Pit Bulls are a great dog to have as a house pet, consider this. How many well off families have pits? Many owners of pits hardly make over 70,000 a year yet they have the largest, meanest, aggresive dog on the block. Ask them why? “I want a dog that will protect my property.” Heck, Where most of those pits live it would be worth the hassle to take anything! I live in a decent neighborhood, one with covenants. Recently, we added a violent dog restriction to the covenants. That included such dogs as pits, mastiffs, etcs. They are NOT allowed in our neighborhood. And there is no court that can overturn our covenants without litigation. That’s what neighbors need to do in order to stop pits from being brought into your neighborhood! Restrictive covenants!!!
Some of you will believe anything you’re spoonfed by anti-dog interests.
Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic (Dangerous Encounters: Bite Force, 8pm est 8/18/2005) – Dr. Barr measured bite forces of many different creatures. Domestic dogs were included in the test.
Here are the results of all of the animals tested:
Humans: 120 pounds of bite pressure
Domestic dogs: 320 LBS of pressure on avg. A German Shepard, American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT) and Rottweiler were tested using a bite sleeve equipped with a specialized computer instrument. The APBT had the least amount of pressure of the 3 dogs tested.
Wild dogs: 310 lbs
Lions: 600 lbs
White sharks: 600 lbs
Hyenas: 1000 lbs
Snapping turtles: 1000 lbs
Crocodiles: 2500 lbs
I believe 100% that the dog owner is usually to blame. Dogs do as they are taught. It is unfortunate, beacuase in most cases they end up being put down.
Todd and the goofball are, as usual, all wet.
I’m gonna remember you two hillbillies the next pit bull attack I hear about.
Pit bulls were selectively bred for the insane aggression to fight to the death. There is absolutely no such thing as a safe pit bull. Personally, I’d like to see the breed go extinct.
There are a very few folks working to better and gentle this breeed. Ownership should be restricted to them. All other pit bulls should be destroyed.
I find it outrageous that these 51 pit bulls are causing problems for the animal shelter. The dogs should all immediately be put down and the owner assessed the damages.
Yeah ok gooftesticles, tell that to my trainer. My neighbors all saw how I was with that dog, and they all now agree that pit bulls are just dangerous no matter how you train them. Afterall, they were the ones who saw me almost daily out in the front yard working with her, and they allowed me to use their dogs as socialization tools.
Ksagnostic is right, it is the fact that dogs are as individual as people. I didn’t mean that every pit bull will bite, obviously that’s not true, but to trust all dogs merely by how you raise them is a false security.
Just as the case, not all abused dogs will go on to be vicious, it just increases the liklihood.
Is there a reason why dog fighters like pit bulls? Absolutely. Because they’re more vicious, more powerful, and more likely to provide the result the dog fighters want. Is there a reason why cops choose German Shepherds over pit bulls? Absolutely. Because they’re smart dogs and are very loyal to do as they are trained. But cops don’t just choose any german shepherds, they are hand picked from each litter as to which ones show the most promise for the right temperment.
“I’m gonna remember you two hillbillies the next pit bull attack I hear about.”
Right, and we won’t hear a peep the next time a lab or a chow bites somebody. That is, until the APBTs are all gone and you’ll have to find another boogeyman, then you’ll be crying about the other large breeds.
And JR, try to shitcan the personal attacks, if that’s possible. It really doesn’t add anything to the conversation.
Well Todd
IF that is the case you will no doubt be apologizing to political mom?
I am a high income female in a high earning household, and my husband and I have two pit bulls. My household income is in excess of $300,000 annually. My husband and I both have master’s degrees. Did I mention we have two pit bulls? We travel all around the world. We own multiple properties. We donate to charities. Did I mention that we also have German Shepherd, an Akit mix and a Chow mix? My husband volunteers for the local fire department. I volunteer for local animal shelters and am active in a women’s outdoors club as a trip leader. We have two pit bulls. My parents have been married happily for over 40 years, and they love our pit bulls (and my sister’s pit bull, doberman and rottweiler, as well). Wait…did I mention that my sister and her husband are well educated professionals and real estate owners…and have a pit bull?
We have the money to chose the best dog money can buy – and we’ve chosen to love second-hand pit bulls and other “dangerous breeds” as our faithful companions. Perhaps we know a thing or two that some of you do not when it comes to raising a solid, stable, reliable dog.
Folks, turn off the junk-news, step out of your houses, explore the world a bit. Learn about the world through first-hand experiences, not ratings-fueled trash news.
Who knows. In stepping out of the confines of your home, you might actually challenge your steriotypes, crash your assumption and expand your horizons. You could even run into a nice pit bull, raised properly by loving but firm hands like ours….in the lap of luxury, too.
Have a beautiful winter, where ever you live. Cheers!
“Well Todd
IF that is the case you will no doubt be apologizing to political mom?”
For what? Doubting her ability to train a dog properly?
“Is there a reason why dog fighters like pit bulls? Absolutely. Because they’re more vicious, more powerful, and more likely to provide the result the dog fighters want.”
Think about what you are saying. There were two dogs in the fighting pit, and two HUMANS. These dogs were bred to fight other dogs, not bite humans. Any dog that exhibited human aggressive behavior was immediately culled and destroyed. The notion that APBTs are predisposed to aggressive behavior toward people is ridiculous on the face of it.
I agree that how a dog is raised determines it’s personality. Unfortunately, how the animal is bred also plays a large part in it’s adult personality.
There are tons of great pit bulls out there, there are also tons of bad pits due to inbreeding.
Severe inbreeding causes emotional and mental instablility and can cause any animals mind to snap in an instant and turn mean, nasty, aggressive and dangerous.
The same thing goes for humans, inbreeding can cause severe mental retardation and a variety of mental conditions including paranoia and schizophrenia, that’s why we have laws preventing close family members from marrying and procreating.
Again, unfortunately, pitbulls have been one of the breeds highly suseptable to inbreeding by greedy illegal backyard breeders, just in the business for the money and not giving a hoot about the public good or the pain and suffering that their dogs will inflict on a human, no matter how that cute little puppy is raised.
These illegal breeders need to be stopped. A ten year mandatory jail sentence needs to be imposed on illegal breeders, that will put a big dent in the number of breeders, but we all know that will not happen.
Therefore, the only other alternative is to completely ban the breed.
I hate to see the good dogs go by the wayside because of the bad, but the public good and safety has to put first, especially when it involves our children.
Sarah,Outstanding post! Thank you!
Post by Sarah does show some enlightened truth. However, her income probably affords her with the opportunity than some won’t have. Like an isolated house, fenced yard, obedience training and having the dogs spayed/neutered.
Having worked with the Military Working Dog Program and Sentry Dog program before that, I can tell you that training a dog for obedience takes as much to train the trainer as it does to train the dog. I also spent time as a Veterinary Technician and can tell you that certain breeds like Chows, Pit Bulls, Dobermans and German Shepherds pop up on the animal bite reports more than any other breeds.
The reality of the situation that some people will buy pit bulls for protection or for some other macho reason like it’s cool to have an attack dog. They will buy the dog from a questionable source, put it in their back yard, toss some food and water out in their back yard and generally ignore the animal.
If the dog had a history of bad behavior, it is going to be extremely hard to re-train the dog where it is obedient.
This is why it is important to put regulations on the owners of known canine breeds that can inflict lethal or grave injury.
Yeah, I could train your dog to be obedient and not attack humans or animals, but bring your checkbook, it will cost you. That statement within itself will scare away most pitbull owners because of sticker shock.
Owning any large canine in a city environment should be very tightly regulated with special licensing fees, housing requirements and liability insurance.
Oh, and another thing, most people that say that their dogs are trained will most likely not pass the test for agression that I would give them, so they are deluding themselves by being overconfident.
To train a dog properly requires specialized knowledge and lots of experience. Most owners do not have that know nor wish to pay for it. Half-baked obedience training at home is not a solution.
A little snark here about spayed/neutered.
As the grandson of a veterinarian and have assisted in the procedures, I would like to point out that spaying is neutering. What we mean is spaying and castrating. But apparently the nice nellies don’t like the word castrating.
Remember: spaying and castrating are both a form of neutering – spaying for the female, castrating for the male.
Well Sarah and Todd,
If you had seen the look in the eyes of the pit bull that charged my 8 year old son? I think you would see things differently.
By the way Sarah? There is a very serious flaw in your post.
“We have the money to chose the best dog money can buy – and we’ve chosen to love second-hand pit bulls and other “dangerous breeds” as our faithful companions. Perhaps we know a thing or two that some of you do not when it comes to raising a solid, stable, reliable dog”
You mean you have the money to afford PROPER confinement and distance from other human beings necessary to this breed? Good on you. The lady who lived 3 houses and less than fifty yards from me did not have such an ability to care for her pit bull.
JM makes good points. TRULY training a dog to professional definition of a trained dog is no simple matter. It’s not really pratical to expect it of all dog owners or not many people could have dogs. No doubt my 13 pound Shih Tzu exibits all sorts of no-no’s like jumping on the furniture and “freezing” over his toys. But he is not prone to violent behavior and couldn’t do any damage if he wanted to.
I train dogs. I train them to herd sheep. I can’t train a dog that does not have the instinct to herd.
Pit bulls are good guard dogs because of their prey drive. An untrained pit bull that sees a child running will attack if its prey drive kicks in.
Its not a dog problem. Its a people problem and the laws currently on the books are sufficient to handle the problem if they were inforced.
Hank
PS Sarah, the best breed in the world is a Bearded Collie!
Yeah Todd, that makes perfect sense, and that’s why we’ve got so many fatal HUMAN maulings by Pit Bulls.
I’m educated,I make good money too, so what? Still I wouldn’t endanger anyones’ life by keeping vicious dogs. … For sake of arguement let’s say I’m not educated and I don’t make good money, still, no bad breeds. Get off your high horse sister.
Hello,
I am reminded that of all the friends, acquaintenances and co-workers I know with dogs, I know of one “human biter”. This dog was put down due to this behavior. The breed? Yellow Labrador Retriever.
It should be stated that lack of training and inconsistent leadership were both serious problems in this house referenced.
It will also be stated that I do not, as a result of this one bit of anectdotal evidence, believe Labs are “bad dogs”, biters by nature or in need of breed specific bans.
Enjoy your Thanksgiving holiday with those you love!
Sarah
I have a couple of Shelties that really aren’t pertinent to the subject.I wonder what Vets ( Dog docs) think about this issue. I don’t think I’ve ever heard their opinion- any thoughts?
I agree with Hank, I do not have a dog or any other kind of animal, it is too much of a responsibility right now to be handle correctly.
Sticking to the article, Rhonda Holman’s does propose this question – “Should a breed viewed as unsuitable for adoption by the city’s animal shelter be lawful to own?”
Under the current situation “YES” as in to remedy their current problem but this should be revised in state laws, city regulations and human rights.It is not so much as to breed of the animal that is the problem but the problem is the accountability of the ownership of that animal.
I agree with all the folks who say that knowing a single pit bull or knowing a single labrador is not enough to make any kind of rational judgment about the breeds. Similarly, it is ridiculous to claim that testing three individual dogs of different breeds with a bite sleeve proves ANYTHING about the power of those dogs as a breed. For one thing, dogs have great bite inhibition. They can (and do) bite with more or less force, depending on the situation. What we DO know is that pit bulls are among the few breeds of dog where fanciers have selectively bred for aggression and for strong, crushing bites and for the tendency to clamp down and not let go. No, their jaws don’t “lock in the sense that they have a special mechanism, yes, they DO tend to be very hard to disengage because they have very powerful dogs and clamp down very tenaciously.
Dogs breeds are bred for certain traits and it shouldn’t surprise anybody when they demonstrate behaviors related to those traits. No dog person who has been paying attention will be surprised when a border collie wins the 20 inch class at the AKC agility nationals next year. Indeed, it would be a HUGE shock if any other breed were to win the class. Similarly, no dog person who is paying attention will be shocked when, after they compile the dog bite fatality statistics for 2006, the numbers caused by pit bulls are number one and rottweilers are number two. Labradors? Despite the anecdotes that pit bull people love to tell about all those vicious labradors, (and despite being the most popular breed of dog in the country by far) labradors won’t even be in the top ten breeds who killed people in 2006.
What you breed for matters. Unfortunately, most pit bull breeders are breeding for some pretty bad things.
I never read stories about basset hounds mauling anyone, my favorite kind of dogs.
This is a horrible pretty common story for pit bulls.
Dog attacks kill Harris County boy
By ANITA HASSANCopyright 2006 Houston ChronicleNov. 21, 2006, 3:45PM
A 4-year-old boy died after he was mauled by two pit bulls this afternoon in his east Harris County neighborhood, authorities said.
The boy, who was not identified, was walking beside another child, who was on a bicycle, around 1:30 p.m. in the 8900 block of C.E. King Parkway when the dogs approached the boys, Harris County sheriff’s deputies said.
The boy on the bike jumped off and was able to run away, but the other boy was bitten in the face by the dogs, said Sgt. Noel Araguz. The boy’s mother ran outside to help him, but could not get the dogs off her son. The boy was flown to Memorial Hermann Hospital where he died at about 3 p.m.
Araguz said the attack lasted several minutes and the dogs were still mauling the boy when deputies arrived on the scene. The dogs were distracted by the lights and sirens of the deputies’ cars.
As deputies approached the dogs, they were aggressive toward them and had to be shot, Araguz said. One of the dogs was killed and the other wounded.
Neighbors told authorities they thought the dogs were strays and no one has yet claimed to own the dogs.
Only good Pit Bull is a dead one!
Last time we had a pit bull thread, one lady posted that she was part of an effort to breed the dogs to gentleness. Such efforts should be applauded perhaps even to the extent of allowing only breeders licensed specifically to pit bulls to sell them.
This would work to put an end to the frequently seen “pit bull pups for sale” signs that we see.
We seem to have a majority of folks agreeing here that the breed is dangerous. Surely those speaking up for the breed would advocate for some minimal accountability in the availability of these dangerous animals?
Having had the experience I did with a pit bull, my advice is this. Report a loose pit bull to animal control IMMEDIATELY. Get your neighbors to report too. Keep calling. It took 2 hours and 17 calls from at least 6 different people to get animal control to my neighborhood. If the animal has been out even twice… just twice… tell animal control that it has been out frequently. They WILL give the owner the opportunity to upgrade the confinement of the dog to a standard judged escape proof.
I’d like to point out the most extreme, dangerous man-eating dog there is! That’s right: the Chawuauawuaua. Them damn ankle biters can naw through a leg faster than you can yell, “pepper spray”.
In a group, they have been known to reach bark levels normally unheard of on this planet. They are the fastest animal on the planet. Don’t believe me? Lock two of em in the bathroom. Drop a piece of chicken. Before the chicken can hit the floor, the dogs will exit the locked bathroom, snatch it out of air and be back in the locked bathroom. By the time you get to the bathroom and look in, they will have both eaten and digested same chicken.
Be afraid . . . be very afraid.
“Should a breed viewed as unsuitable for adoption by the city’s animal shelter be lawful to own?”No.
It may have started out as “hey I got a great idea for making some money”, to getting out of hand.
Put those responsible in DOC workrelease, until the bill is paid in full.
I’ve worked with dogs my whole life and will tell you first hand, I have had to separate 6 week old pit bull puppies from each other to keep them from killing one another. how these dogs were raised had nothing to do with this behavior, it’s what they are. Pit bulls are typically affectionate and docile toward humans and unrelentingly vicious toward other animals, it’s what they are people. I know Staffordshire terrier and APBT owners will hide behind the “It’s how they are raised” and “It’s the owners” arguement till the cows come home, but it’s what they are. They have been selectively bred AND inbred to enhance the traits they have. Unfortunately, Wichita has a large contingent of mouth breathing idiots, gang banging thugs, and beer swilling rednecks that keep the breeders of this breed in business. Wichita would be better off with a restrictive ownership law that requires surgical sterilization, or an all out ban of the breed. If you own one and want to keep it neuter it or MOVE
Thank you for saying that Dogman. I’m so sick and tired of being told that I was an irresponsible pet owner. Hell I took that dog to keep it AWAY from irresponsible pet owners (and we wanted a puppy too).
It is just insane, in light of ALL the massive evidence. And the sad thing is that had I never experienced the dog bite, I’d probably still be arguing for the pro-pit side right now too.
Here are the stats on dog bites, fatalities etc.. Any breed standout?
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf
That says it all outlander. They need to go.
Being a breeder of the “Pit Bull” I would just like to say that individuals who are in the market for a pit bull should take the time and do research before purchasing. A pit bull is not for everyone.
For example. Rent/buy movies or books on the breed. Buy from somone where you can (if possible) go and visit the environment/living conditions of the dogs. Take a look at the parents to get an understanding of their temperment. This is usually a good indication of what kind of tempermant that their offspring will have.
Also, individuals need to realize that if you are looking for an all around “family dog” a Pit bull is not for you.
Pit bulls are overly protective of their families. Also, there are basic rules to owning a pit bull that will make life enjoyable for everyone.
1. Never leave your pitbull unsecure (they are inquisitive).2. Never leave two or more pitbulls alone together (or with any other dog).3. Never ever ever ever leave a pitbull alone with child.
Pitbulls are naturally agressive to wards other dogs and strangers. Also educate the children who are going to be around the dog.
Children should never.1. “Poke/Tease/hit” the dog2. Run while around the dog3. Scream or yell
Following any of the rules I gave you above will “NOT” ensure that a pit bull will not attack an individual. Once again they done like strangers. Also, people have to realize that if you buy a registerd pit there is a good chance that their is no close inbreeding. Inbreeding causes behavior and social problems. This is a common thing for dog fighting breeders to do. Because it will make the dog exceptionally mean.
“PUNISH THE DEED NOT THE BREED”
“None of my dogs are sold for illegal purposes.”
God Bless
Thank you very much, outlander, for injecting some empiricism into the argument. I applaud this and would encourage you to do this type of posting more often.
I am a retired hog hunter who had bay dogs and catch dogs. My catch dog of choice is the pit bull. Why? They will not quit in their attempts to catch the feral hog. I never had a dog aggressive pit bull and bred pups to be sold to hog hunters. My dogs were registered. One dog came from a champion bloodline in South Carolina. I was very selective about buying dogs..I only bought puppies from parents that were under 60 lbs..any pit bull that is over 60 lbs has something crossed in them such as mastiff or whatnot. I trained them..you have to understand that a pit bull, by nature, is an assertive dog which requires an even more assertive owners. They do not do well being chained up and ignored in the back yard. A good pit bull is a lousy guard dog. I can easily go into some stranger’s backyard and take a pit bull that has never known me because they’re good natured. That’s if the pit isn’t crossed with other breeds..very easy to fake registeration papers those days or cross a pit with some other dog and register the pups as purebred pit. Some people who are involved with weight pulling admit that they crossed their dogs with other breeds and registered the pups as purebred pits..really stupid. Pits do well if they’re raised to obey people indoors/outdoors and are excerised daily but yes, there will be some pit bulls that are genetically prone to disliking other dogs. I do not tolerate those in my house and have been lucky not to have had. They’re excellent with children if raised right due to their high pain tolerance. I have to say it’s the people raising them that are the root of the problem. Deal with the owners and the problem will probably never go away as long as we have idiots fighting their dogs thinking it’s cool to do so.
I have owned several Mastiff breeds including Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, & we currently own an 8 year old English Mastiff we adopted at 9 weeks. I’ll be first to agree that the Pitbull & Rottweiler need a strong responsible handler, but can prove to be an excellent dog in the right hands. Speaking from experience they can be dangerous if not trained properly and owned by irresponsible owners just like a child. My neighbor goes thru dogs like underwear. One lab & golden retreiver after another based on others recommendations & generalizations. Meanwhile they dont take the time to train them and I spend the time returning the dog after it runs away daily and digs into my yard. I do have one comment for Todd. Todd said his community won’t allow a Mastiff? My English Mastiff is the sweetest dog I have even seen and wouldn’t hurt a fly. He is the most gentle Dog I have ever been around. I have never heard a growl from him. He lets the kids sleep on him, the cat jump on him, and has absolutely no interest in fighting with any other dogs. I can walk him off leash around a block of barking dogs in Manhatten and he wouldn’t leave my side. I have numerous friends that own English Mastiff & Bull Matiff breads and all are extremely gentle. If you are allergic to slobber than he poses a threat. To generalize an entire catagory of breed is Uneducated. P.S. Married, B.S, Masters MIS, 2 Kids, annual income of 500K+.
Pit bulls are selectively bred for aggression. They are unlike any other breed
Many of the attacks are by pits that have NEVER been abused a day in their life.
Time to have strict rules about ownership, and clamp down on pit bull fighting/breeding.
And time for some of these naive pit bull owners to stop colluding with the dogfighters and for-profit breeders.
And no one in their RIGHT MIND would breed these dogs. There are thousands upon thousands getting destroyed because there are too many pits, too many breeders.
And most people can’t have them- they are going to dog fighters
Too many “show” pit bull breeders that are just hiding their dog fighting sales.
Time to shut them down
Well said Cody.
I am proud of the other responsible Pit Bull owners that have posted positive comments about the breed, but I also cannot believe the ignorance of some of the comments I have read thus far. It is a shame that so many people have been sucked into the propaganda the media preaches about Pit Bulls. Pit Bulls that are violent are a product of their environment and the interaction they have with the humans who breed and abuse them in the name of “sport”. Any dog can be made vicious, I don’t care if it’s a Lab, Dalmatian, Collie, Boxer or any of the other stereotypical “good” dogs to adopt. Personally, I have witnessed more obnoxious, vicious, and uncontrollable behavior from small dogs, i.e., Chihuahuas, Poodles, Pomeranians, etc., then from dogs three times their size. Dogs and children are one in the same when it comes to being shaped by their environment! Take a child from birth, lock it in a cage, electrocute, torture, starve, beat and teach it to fight for it’s life on a daily basis and you will have a vicious, socially introverted, aggressive, child, who will strike out at any given opportunity in the hopes of freedom and a chance at a normal life. Now, raise a dog, no matter the breed, in the same environment and you will have the same vicious, socially introverted, aggressive animal. Pit Bulls are know for their devotion and tenacity and humans exploit these traits for their own entertainment and social standing.
The “cure” or the rectification is not in euthanizing Pit Bulls, it is in stronger laws against animal abusers, laws that hold the same punishment for abusing an animal as abusing a human. Laws that impose jail sentences and consequences for the monsters that find “sport” in the torture and abuse of these dogs. Kill a human, go to jail and/or get the death penalty, Kill a dog, go to jail and/or get the death penalty, justice is what we need, not euthanization into extinction. It is a proven fact that any human that can inflict pain and harm on an animal will have no conscience or qualms about inflicting pain and harm on another human. So by letting these monsters get away with the murder of an animal, we are essentially allowing them to broaden their horizons and maybe someday try getting away with killing another human.
Responsibility! The key to owning any animal, know your pet, know it’s quirks, it’s issues, weather it may be an aversion to other dogs, or an aversion to loud noises! Treat your pets with respect and dignity and they will treat you to undying loyalty and unconditional love.
PS: A further education for the ignorant; Pit Bulls are not an exclusive breed, like German Shepherds or Doberman Pinchers. Each Pit Bull is a composition of generations of interbred breeds that over the years have been combined to create a certain style of animal; i.e., the shape of their heads, the muscular front portion of their bodies and the stance of a slightly bow legged but determined champion. The AKC recognizes “Pit Bulls” as American Staffordshire Terrier and their description is as follows:
Muscular, but agile and graceful, stocky, courage is proverbial. broad skull, very pronounced cheek muscles, ears are set high. Eyes – Set far apart, low down in skull. Muzzle – Medium length, rounded on upper side to fall away abruptly below eyes. Jaws well defined. Underjaw to be strong and have biting power. Lips close and even, no looseness. Upper teeth to meet tightly outside lower teeth in front. Neck – Heavy, slightly arched, tapering from shoulders to back of skull. No looseness of skin. Shoulders – Strong and muscular with blades wide and sloping. Back – Fairly short. Slight sloping from withers to rump with gentle short slope at rump to base of tail. Loins slightly tucked.
However, you will still find a wide discrepancy of characteristics from dog to dog, due to the intricacy of breeding.
Pit Bulls are actually bred to NOT bite humans. In the frenzy of a dog fight the “handlers” don’t want to get bit. The original reason for breeding these dogs was to include the tenacity and energy of terriers in the Bulldog lines. I’ve seen several Pit Bull dogs pass Canine Good Citizen tests and Therapy Dog tests. If you read the book “Fatal Dog Attacks” which documents exactly that, you will see that most all fatal dog attacks are caused by stupid humans not bad dogs.
Seriously it baffles me how anyone could say that an entire breed of dog is bad. I have 2 pitbulls and they are nothing but loving and caring dogs. As far as pit bulls that are untrainable it happens when irresponsible breeders/owners inbreed or mistreat dogs. How did a persons income even become involved in the conversation. If you think gangsters are the only ones who own pitbulls then go to a dog show or to the dog park for that matter. O yea i have three kids who hang all over the dogs and they love it. Any breed of dog should be kept out of the wrong owners hands. If ignorance is bliss some of you very happy;)
Blue Bully,Well said but I have to disagree with one thing. Pit Bulls don’t belong in a dog park. You’re just asking for trouble. Although Pits aren’t bred to be human aggressive, they are dog aggressive and you can’t breed that out of them. I have two female Pits myself and also do Pit rescue, and I never let any of them alone together. After I had to break apart my first Pit attack I realized how easy a fight can start.Even if it was a Lab that started the fight at the dog park, who do you think is going to get blamed for it?As responsible owners we need to spread the word about our Pits and get the rest of the world and the narrow minded people like JR, Ken and Tracy educated. Oh and by the way Ken- I own my own company and make over a million a year.
I also advise any of the mislead, uneducated and ignorant to watch Cesar Milan-The Dog Whisperer on the National Geographic channel. He is living proof that there is no such thing as a bad breed. He has numerous Pit Bulls, most of which were going to be put down by shelters for their severe aggression, and he has turned them to butter in his hands. Pit Bulls need a strong, fearless owner who is going to exercise and discipline them. They are not a breed for just anyone. Inexperienced, uneducated, careless and fearful owners are the ones whose dogs make the news. Dogs can sense when you are afraid and they will quickly jump into the drivers seat and take control. You must be calm and assertive at all times. If you can’t be, then don’t own a Pit Bull.Political Mom- there is always a chance that any dog you own can one day turn around and attack someone. Just because yours was a Pit Bull doesn’t make the whole breed bad.
“get the rest of the world and the narrow minded people like JR, Ken and Tracy educated.”
EXCUSE ME?Did you read my posts?
Hey my kid was almost a victim of one of these dogs. How many people have to die or be severely mauled or have their pets killed by your particular breed of dog?
“They are not a breed for just anyone. Inexperienced, uneducated, careless and fearful owners are the ones whose dogs make the news.”Posted by: pitbulllover8892 | November 28, 2006 at 08:31 PM
The problem with the tortured logic of pit bull supporters is that it makes no allowance for compassion for victims of Pit Bill attacks. They don’t deny that Pit Bull attacks that result in severe injury or death are far more numerous than any other breed. (see my earlier post)
No, they blame incompetent owners. Well, there will always be incompetent owners.When you have a poorly trained Lab or Irish Setter or other breed, you don’t end up with a killing machine. Pit bulls represent an unnecessary risk to children and the elderly and should be banned in urban areas.
You’re right PB lover, I absolutely agree that any dog can attack now. Most won’t, but I have less of a chance now of it being fatal.
I did change how I train, and I did it with manuals on how dog trainers do dominance training- where I am the alpha dog- the same they use for training service and therapy dogs. The dog I own now is much better behaved than I could have ever hoped for- and I didn’t pay tons of money for a professional this time either.
But I still STILL will never fully trust any animal again. No matter what training.
And how in the world can you still say they’re not HUMAN aggressive when SO many people have been KILLED…not just bitten but attacked and mauled?You just said yourself you can’t trust your dogs to be together, and you saw how fast one snapped…luckily for you- it was to another dog.
Why would anyone………… want a dog that COULD kill? There are many breeds available to normal people that are great watchdogs, great pets and great with children.
Yes, you have to watch any pet around a small child, but I would certtainly not allow one of my grandchildren around a pit bull.
Even if it is a one in a million shot – it just ain’t worth it.
I lost my beloved Golden Retriever this Spring. My granddaughter could sit on him, wrestle with him, pull his tail and he reacted with love and affection.
The same dog warned we that someone had broken into my house when I lived in Olathe. Thanks to his warning, I was able to evict the intruder without incident.
Maybe, just maybe, I would have been better served to have a pit bull that would have seriously injured the intruder.
But I don’t think so.
My gentle friend was always there for me – even when I needed his growls to wake me from a deep sleep.
I hate to sound crass, but I think some guys have to have a pit bull for the same reason they have to have a Porche.
Beth Shoemaker, I promise you, my dog was NEVER locked up or isolated, beaten, baited, or ANYTHING of the sort. She was an indoor dog and I went so far out of my way to ensure that this dog had the proper socialization.
Oh and my dog never showed aggression to another animal, not even during classes either, but she attacked a kid she had played with probably 50 times!
But yet, you keep saying that these wonderful animals. Ya’ll are just not going to believe it till you’re the one on my end typing these same words- saying what a good dog owner you were too. What excuse will you have then?
Loud noise can cause the dog to attack? What do we do, get him earplugs? Tell me- in what lifetime is a dog not going to be exposed to a loud noise at some point? I hope it’s not your child standing next to it when that happens!
Political mom,let me correct myself- Pits were never bred to be human aggressive in the past. But much to my horror I have seen websites of Pit Bull breeders that are actually bragging how their breeding their Pits to be human aggressive and their smallest one is over 90 pounds. Let me tell you this, a true Pit should not weigh over 70 pounds. If they do, then they are being interbred with a mastiff type dog. And if you think banning Pits is your answer, think again. Mastiffs can weigh over 200 pounds and they basically look like a huge Pit Bull. So be careful what you wish for. No one will stand a chance if attacked by a dog of this size. But this is going to be the breed of choice for drug dealers, thugs…if Pits are banned.
WSClark,I am sorry you lost your best friend, but I’m not sorry that I adopted my 2 Pits. I also have a 3rd dog-a 12 year old Black Lab. I love her to death but from the time I adopted her at 6 weeks, whenever small children would pull on her ears, tail, fur… she would growl and nip them. On the other hand my kids can do whatever they want to my Pits and in return they get licked to death.And for the rest of you anti Pit people, let’s face it, if this were a human being you were talking about you’d all be racist. We all know that the crime rate among African Americans is the highest, so what are you going to do? Wipe out their whole race so less murders are committed?
Sounds like YOU are the racist. Also sounds like you are getting pretty defensive and silly.
Hey I got no problem with you having your dog. I don’t even have a problem with you having your dog in town. But you better have it in an escape proof kennel at all times. And if you walk it you better be able to restrain it. I have applauded those who say they are working to gentle down this breed. I have posted on other threads that dogs are the project of human engineering. The fact is that pit bulls are engineered to be DANGEROUS. If you truly care about this breed you would get on board with efforts to restrict it instead of crying foul.
Pit Bull Lover,
I agree that some pits are dog aggresive and it cant be reversed. However, my dogs were well socialized with dogs and cats from the time they were 3 weeks old, plus they come from blue show lines and probably have not had a fighter anywhere in there recent past(5 CH in 4 gen ped). Also my first pit came from a questionable background and had severe dog aggresion issues yet still tolerated a pomerainian living with him for 2 years. Never one bite. I think any dog that came from a recent history of fighting (last 4 gens of ped) would probably be untrainable as far as dog aggresion goes. Any pit bull training guide or website will tell your pit puppy can be trained not to be aggresive towards other dogs, adult dogs its a case by case basis. Again I agree that encouraging a bunch of people to take unruly dogs to a park is stupid but my dogs I can honestly say I have complete trust in. I have two neighbors who are knocking on my door just so my dogs can play with there older labs for excersize.-The comment about people advertising human aggresive pits is true. Both comments about crossbreeding mastifs is also true. They are being crossbred into pits to add size. Which i am not a fan of. They will also be the next dog in line for thugs 2 get ahold of if pits get banned. Should as many irresponsible breeders get ahold of mastifs and breed for human aggresion it would be a bad situation.-Also the lady whose kid got bit, it is a shame, two things though -1. If you got the dog from a kennel you know nothing about its history and pedigree. (Thats big when you are buying/adopting a pit)2. Kids can often do innapropriate things to dogs. They should be watched very carefully with any dog. Some dogs simply do not like kids usually pits do. Should the dog have come from a human aggresive line you never know whats gonna happen. Usually a dog that has not grown up with some regular exposure to kids will feel uneasy around them at best. These rules go with ANY dog. I find myself correcting my kids more than my dogs with there interactions.
To be able to train any dog u must think like the dog. It sounds corny but its true. I am not going to tell people how to raise a dog but please people do research on your breeds, spend lots of training time, and most importantly teach your dog you are its pack leader but in a completely non violent way. I have never once laid a hand to either of my dogs. Both pits. Both will be going for the Good Kanine Citizenship award in the summer.
I also agree something should be done to keep them out of the wrong hands. But a breed ban is definately not the answer.
Re: Political Mom,
If you re-read what I wrote maybe you will understand and interpret what I wrote correctly. I said that all dogs have their own quirks, i.e. some may have an aversion to loud noises, or getting sprayed with a hose, or a fear of bicycles etc. A reaction to any of these things can range from barking at it or trying to attack what they perceive as a threat. All dogs react differently to different situations. No, we can’t buy a dog ear plugs, but forethought and knowledge about your pet will help you to anticipate their reaction to certain situations and prevent or diminish the damage their reaction might cause.
I do not disagree that Pit Bulls have attacked humans but they are not the only dogs that have attacked humans. Unfortunately Pit Bull attacks are the only attacks the media sensationalizes and so society is lead to believe they are the only aggressive dogs. Years ago before Pit Bulls became such a “popular” dog, Dobermans and German Shepherds were the breeds “known” for their aggression. Now German Sheppard’s are revered as rescuers, why, because responsible owners took the time to understand and train the breed.
I am sorry you had a negative experience with your Pit Bull, but to generalize your assumption that all Pit Bulls are aggressive and may attack at any time is like generalizing all murders as serial killers. Every breed of animal has a mind of its own, just like a human. Actions and personalities are not always born out of violence in their environment but sometimes by pure mental defect that is within them from birth.
I would like to clarify my earlier comparison of “but to generalize your assumption that all Pit Bulls are aggressive and may attack at any time is like generalizing all murders as serial killers.”
By saying not all murderers are serial killers I was referring to the small margin of self defense murderers, people who in desperate situations committed a felony when no other alternative presents itself. Just as some dogs may feel they have no other alternative but to strike out, unfortunately rationalization is not a trait that animals and humans have in common.
JR,I am the furthest thing from a racist- my step daughter is African American. I was just trying to prove a point.I am one of the ones who are trying to restrict ownership of this breed from owners who intend to do wrong by them. I am also trying to get stiffer fines for the owners who abuse and fight them. All the dogs in my rescue have been taken from drug dealers.
Well,
We would be on the same side then wouldn’t we? SO save the passion in charges like “narrow minded” and “racist” and devote them to your very noble pursuit. Better strategy yes? You have a heavy task ahead of you.
Again, I don’t blame these dogs for what they are. People did that and DO that to them.
JR,”Pit bulls were selectively bred for the insane aggression to fight to the death. There is absolutely no such thing as a safe pit bull. Personally, I’d like to see the breed go extinct.
There are a very few folks working to better and gentle this breeed. Ownership should be restricted to them. All other pit bulls should be destroyed.”
These are your words, so I’m not sure I understand you. One sentence you’re wanting to destroy the breed, and the next you’re applauding people like me for what we do.Any clarification???I’m glad we’re on the same page with your realization that people did to this to this breed. They were born innocent. Almost every one of them I go to rescue in the urban shelters are wagging their tails and waiting to give love. There’s a holocaust going on out there against Pits and it’s WRONG.And believe it or not, I have found hillbillies treat their dogs a lot better than the people in urban areas.
Well…
I am balancing my OWN opinion with accomodation for others. That’s diplomacy. I am only recently aware of any organized effort to deal with the problem. You may or might not be the poster I ran into before who also worked to better this breed. I applaud the effort and. just as my words you re-posted say, I wish it success. Again, you have a heavy task ahead of you.
JR–
I think your e-mail box is full.
Check it and see.
Capn
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/pospress.phphttp://www.happypitbull.com/ownertopics/stereotype.htm
i think that most of the people on here that have written poorly about apbt are wrong and missinformed. how many have actually had any experience with one? how many are just regurgitating something that “a friend of my friend” told me? i have two very sweet little pit girls and i think it is crazy to say they are people aggressive. do some research and get educated. on temperment tests they score better than golden retrievers, border collies, dalmations, most lap dogs and many others. in fact pits scored 83% while the dog average is 77% (american temperment test society “06). google it and you doubters will see. look up your dog and see where it ranks comparitively. pits get a bad rap by a media that sensationalizes anything to get ratings and by people who dont form independent thoughts but rather ape others. also i have read comments that say pits are owned by low income people! i wonder if the persons who have written this have a hard time getting down from their high horse. my household income well exceeds the 70k that some snob mentions. maybe the doubters should do some research before just throwing out uninformed opinions. these people are followers with sore noses from being led by them. more people are attacked by human aggressive dogs such as rots, german sheps, st. bernards and mutts. pits are genetically non-human aggressive. if the nay sayers did some research they would find that the human-aggressive ones were put down by the 19th cent. breeders. just make your own thoughts and opinions and quit being ignorant.
I have a 14 yr old daughter a 21 yr old step-daughter,2 Grandsons ages 3 and 5.I also have a 2 yr old Rot, 2 female APBT puppies, ages 3 months and 7 months.I trust my dogs with my G’sons and my daughters,I however dont leave them unattended.Simply because my 3 yr old grandson is mean as h#ll and the puppies need protected from him.from what i have read here in this forum,there alot of people bashing APBT’s from hearsay and secondhand rumors.APBT’s require alot of attention and playful activities.THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO TAKE THE ALPHA POSITION AWAY FROM THEM. But in doing so you take on more responsibility than you can imagine.This is where most people fail in raising their APBT or any breed for that matter.
well i HAVE OWNED at least 7 pitbullsall of wich were EXTREMELY calm and very well behaved…by the way
pitbulls were bred to fight OTHER ANIMALS…they were bred because of thier extreme human tollerence… people wanted a dog that attacked and fought other animals and so thats it. they were bred specifically cus they get along with people better than any other breed… all of my dogs and all the pitbulls i know are great dogs and were raised CORRECTLY…actually thats a lie.. my friend rescued a pitbull who had been a fighter.. the dog is now 8 years old and has NEVER showes aggression to ANY human ! or other animal
Though I may be in the minority, I feel that dogfighting is wholesome, educational, family entertainment for kids of all ages.
There’s nothing quite like taking the wife and kids to an exciting Saturday night dogfight, watching the glee in my children’s eyes while two vicious, hulking canine beasts, their muscles rippling with adrenaline, tear each other to pieces, fighting to their glorious deaths in the pit like latter-day animal gladiators.
The excitement builds when the dogmen arrive after sundown; often driving expensive SUVs pulling custom trailers containing their prized fighting dogs. One by one the contenders are led from the trailers while others look on in admiration, some among them wishing that they too were dogmen. Others size up the contenders, determining the amount they will place in bets.
Bookmakers, quickly jotting odds on small chalkboards, start collecting money as enthusiastic bettors yell, “Two thousand on Imperator,” or “Put me down for five hundred bucks on Lucky Lady.”
Victory or death is the nature of the sport of dogfighting, each dogman, thousands invested in the breeding, training and care of his fighter, petting and giving his beloved champion animal encouragement before they are placed in the pit. A referee is in the pit before the fight; his job is to start the contest by placing the dogs within fighting distance of each other, once the fight starts, the referee stays in the pit and enjoys the spectacle, watching for one of the dogs to turn.
Illustrating the educational value of the family sport of dogfighting, one evening while watching two dogs in a particularly bloody match, my youngest son asked me what were those purplish veiny things hanging from the belly of one contender.
“They’re intestines son,” I replied, admiring the dying canine’s gameness as it continued to fight on, unto the death. At another match, my eldest son smiled and watched in amusement while a dog called King Odin, blinded in both eyes during the fight, clumsily latched on to the right foreleg of the opponent. Using all his strength, King Odin clamped down and bit the leg off at the shoulder, tearing the joint from the socket. Staring in astonishment with the rest of the crowd, I had never seen such incredible power come from the jaws of a game bull terrier. Curiously, at the end of the match King Odin, though blinded and ostensibly retired due to his injuries, was declared the winner, while the opposing animal, a three year old, four time champion bitch called Silver Streak, bled to death in one corner of the pit.
Another plus with regard to dogfighting is the community atmosphere promoted by the sport; friendly neighbors and fellow church members all gathering around the pit for conversation, good food, and entertainment. Many of the wives make tasty dishes to bring to the dogfights, and cold kegs of Coors and Budweiser are always a welcome addition. The local police chief often brings these beverages, along with coolers of soft drinks for the kids.
Dogfighting has been a part of American culture since before the beginning of the Republic, and is as American as apple pie and the 4th of July. Thomas Jefferson, Paul Revere and Benjamin Franklin were avid dogfighters, each keeping kennels of ferocious canines for their amusement, often pitting beasts from their kennels against each other in exciting contests of animal strength and endurance.
Drawing on the long history of the sport, I feel that some soul searching is in order, and after careful debate and reflection, it should be proposed that dogfighting be again made legal in all fifty states and territories of the United States of America.
I was raised around pitbulls and rottwiliers and Dobies and I have kids now and they all have a dog like them above, and now they are grown and still have them !!! Whats the deal with all these stupid people if you want to comment do it so I can Correct u dumb asses