Last week, a U.S. special envoy delivered a tough statement to Pyongyang: “We are not going to live with a nuclear North Korea.”
Sunday, Kim Jong Il gave his answer. The nuclear test North Korea announced Monday expands to eight — nine if you count Israel — the number of countries to openly test a nuclear weapon. As the international reaction shows, Kim’s paranoid, bellicose North Korea is the very last nation anyone wanted in that particular club.
So how did it come to this? Some will say the Clinton administration was snookered when it traded aid for an ostensible shutdown of the North’s nuclear program in 1994. Others will point out that Bush’s “axis of evil” remarks in 2002 — and hard line since — have left Kim desperate to save face.
But it’s also a time of soul-searching for North Korea’s neighbors: Russia, China, South Korea and Japan, who have generally shrugged off each new provocation as something for the Americans to deal with. Now even China — Pyongyang’s source for nearly every necessity — is expressing condemnation.
The United Nations Security Council is considering a resolution for sanctions. But any punishment must now be weighed against the North’s response. Kim pushed things this far because he calculated he had little to lose. What might he do with nothing to lose?
Posted by Dave Knadler
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- ProudMan on Too many exemptions
- SolDevVB on Open thread 11/23
- okobserver on Open thread 11/23
- littlejohn on Open thread 11/23
- littlejohn on Open thread 11/23
- littlejohn on Open thread 11/23
- SolDevVB on Open thread 11/23
- okobserver on Open thread 11/23
- okobserver on Open thread 11/23
- ANTI on Open thread 11/23
57 Comments
Clinton’s 1994 agreement with North Korea not to produce plutonium worked well until 2002 when Bush called North Korea part of the “axis of evil” and the agreement broke down.
The vast majority–at least 80 percent of the plutonium NK has–was produced since then.
Hey, name calling doesn’t work. Who knew.
Bush is a catastrophe that walks on two legs like a man . . .
And to think, all this guy wanted….
is a membership to HAIR CLUB FOR MEN!!
Notwithstanding the comments of the special envoy, today’s developments (if the explosion was of nuclear origin) show that we will, indeed, live with a nuclear North Korea, at least in the short term.
On NPR this afternoon, the folks are speculating that the NK bomb was a fizzle. The small size of the detonation is what is bringing about this assessment.
Hmmm . . . maybe Steven D, but plutonium remains the deadliest poison ever created and simply exploding a bunch of plutonium around would cause huge problems (dirty bomb).
TRACY – I thought he wanted elevator shoes!
How many bombs do you suppose he has? More than China? Russia? Which one of the three do you think has the better delivery system?
When Clinton left office, the nuke facilities were under seal, so it is really quite a stretch to place the current fiasco on him. But never under estimate the ignorance of the right.
This North Korean nuke test is actually very, very good for shrub and the repukes.
It will move that degenerate foley off the front page.It vindicates shrub’s axis of evil rhetoric.It bolsters his tough talk and potential action against Iran to prevent them from going down the same road.It will further serve to frighten the sheeple with their uber low attention spans.
All in all, the Krazy Korean has given shrub an early hannukah present.
Viva La raza Blanco!!
Maybe Kim could help a little with that revolution, ya’ think Ian?
Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, sat on the board of a company which three years ago sold two light water nuclear reactors to North Korea – a country he now regards as part of the “axis of evil” and which has been targeted for regime change by Washington because of its efforts to build nuclear weapons.Mr Rumsfeld was a non-executive director of ABB, a European engineering giant based in Zurich, when it won a $200m (¬£125m) contract to provide the design and key components for the reactors. The current defence secretary sat on the board from 1990 to 2001, earning $190,000 a year. He left to join the Bush administration.
Don’t forget Rumsfeld’s role in arming Saddam.
Okay Ben. 10-4
So, South Korea should just surrender. “We give up. You’ve scared the spit out of us. We want to be communists. Come on down.”
The second the North Korean troops set eyes on Itaewon, they’ll be like “what the h*** were we _thinking_?” And then they’ll stage a coup, throw the little Kim-shite out on his ass, and join the rest of the world.
Why, yes, I _am_ living in a fantasy dream world. Why do you ask? :-)
Capn america,
North Korea never adheared to any of the agreement how is that solving the problem.
Is this the agreement you say solved the problem with the little man?
Spring, 1994: A year into President Clinton’s first term, North Korea prepares to remove the Yongbyon fuel rods from their storage site. North Korea expels international weapons inspectors and withdraws from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
* Clinton asks the United Nations Security Council to consider sanctions. North Korean spokesmen proclaim such sanctions would cause war.
* The Pentagon draws up plans to send 50,000 troops to South Korea — along with 400 war planes, 50 ships, Apache helicopters, Bradley fighting vehicles, and Patriot missiles. An advance force of 250 soldiers is sent in to set up headquarters for the expanded force.
* Clinton balks and sets up a diplomatic back-channel to end the crisis — former President Jimmy Carter. Exceeding instructions, Carter negotiates the outlines of a treaty and announces the terms live on CNN.
Oct. 21, 1994: The United States and North Korea sign a formal accord based on those outlines, called the Agreed Framework. Under its terms:
* North Korea promises to renew its commitment to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, lock up the fuel rods, and let inspectors back in to monitor the facility.
* The United States agrees — with financial backing from South Korea and Japan — that it will provide two light-water nuclear reactors for electricity, send a large supply of fuel oil, and that it will not invade North Korea.
* Upon delivery of the first light-water reactor, inspections of suspected North Korean nuclear sites were supposed to start. After the second reactor arrived, North Korea was supposed to ship its fuel rods out of the country.
* The two countries also agreed to lower trade barriers and install ambassadors in each other’s capitals — with the United States providing full assurances that it would never use nuclear weapons against North Korea.
(None of the above came to pass. Congress did not make the financial commitment — neither did South Korea. The light-water reactors were never funded. The enumerated steps toward normalization were never taken.)
The Huge Oil Discovery Not Yet Making HeadlinesCan Pheromones Fix Your Relationship?New Stock Market Report – Limited Time Offer!New Tips & Tricks for Your Funds at Vanguard – Free!Jan. 2002: In President Bush’s State of the Union Address, he famously labels North Korea, Iran, and Iraq as an “axis of evil.”
Oct., 2002: Officials from the U.S. State Department fly to Pyongyang, where that government admits it had acquired centrifuges for processing highly enriched uranium, which could be used for building nuclear weapons.
* It is now clear to all parties that the promised reactors are never going to be built. Normalization of relations fizzles.
* The CIA learns that North Korea may have been acquiring centrifuges for enriching uranium since the late 1990s — probably from Pakistan.
According to your chronology it was the US that failed to live up to the agreements:
“(None of the above came to pass. Congress did not make the financial commitment — neither did South Korea. The light-water reactors were never funded. The enumerated steps toward normalization were never taken.)”
Then, after Bush rattled the sabers, NKorea followed suit:
“Jan. 2002: In President Bush’s State of the Union Address, he famously labels North Korea, Iran, and Iraq as an “axis of evil.
“Oct., 2002: Officials from the U.S. State Department fly to Pyongyang, where that government admits it had acquired centrifuges for processing highly enriched uranium, which could be used for building nuclear weapons.
* It is now clear to all parties that the promised reactors are never going to be built. Normalization of relations fizzles.”
As for the last claim – well, this is the same source that claimed the aluminum tubes were for centrifuges …
Is this the agreement you say solved the problem with the little man?
Spring, 1994: A year into President Clinton’s first term, North Korea prepares to remove the Yongbyon fuel rods from their storage site. North Korea expels international weapons inspectors and withdraws from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
* Clinton asks the United Nations Security Council to consider sanctions. North Korean spokesmen proclaim such sanctions would cause war.
* The Pentagon draws up plans to send 50,000 troops to South Korea — along with 400 war planes, 50 ships, Apache helicopters, Bradley fighting vehicles, and Patriot missiles. An advance force of 250 soldiers is sent in to set up headquarters for the expanded force.
* Clinton balks and sets up a diplomatic back-channel to end the crisis — former President Jimmy Carter. Exceeding instructions, Carter negotiates the outlines of a treaty and announces the terms live on CNN.
Oct. 21, 1994: The United States and North Korea sign a formal accord based on those outlines, called the Agreed Framework. Under its terms:
* North Korea promises to renew its commitment to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, lock up the fuel rods, and let inspectors back in to monitor the facility.
* The United States agrees — with financial backing from South Korea and Japan — that it will provide two light-water nuclear reactors for electricity, send a large supply of fuel oil, and that it will not invade North Korea.
* Upon delivery of the first light-water reactor, inspections of suspected North Korean nuclear sites were supposed to start. After the second reactor arrived, North Korea was supposed to ship its fuel rods out of the country.
* The two countries also agreed to lower trade barriers and install ambassadors in each other’s capitals — with the United States providing full assurances that it would never use nuclear weapons against North Korea.
(None of the above came to pass. Congress did not make the financial commitment — neither did South Korea. The light-water reactors were never funded. The enumerated steps toward normalization were never taken.)
The Huge Oil Discovery Not Yet Making HeadlinesCan Pheromones Fix Your Relationship?New Stock Market Report – Limited Time Offer!New Tips & Tricks for Your Funds at Vanguard – Free!Jan. 2002: In President Bush’s State of the Union Address, he famously labels North Korea, Iran, and Iraq as an “axis of evil.”
Oct., 2002: Officials from the U.S. State Department fly to Pyongyang, where that government admits it had acquired centrifuges for processing highly enriched uranium, which could be used for building nuclear weapons.
* It is now clear to all parties that the promised reactors are never going to be built. Normalization of relations fizzles.
* The CIA learns that North Korea may have been acquiring centrifuges for enriching uranium since the late 1990s — probably from Pakistan.
See my reply to your first post of that chronology.
After Clinton left office other nations continued diplomacy. Countries in Europe, Russia and China had an agreement with North Korea to support international aid and trade. It blew up when Bush came in and called North Korea one of the “axis of evil” and placed an international embargo on the nation destroying the diplomatic efforts. The Bush administration also changed the Clinton agreements allowing North Korea to develop weapons grade plutonium. Bush’s only “diplomacy” was to make threats towards North Korea.
Bush, one failure after another.
George Bush – the only thing that exceeds his ignorance is his arrogance.
Gosh, until George W. Bush called North Korea part of the “Axis of Evil” all Kim had done was blow up airplanes, kidnap film makers and movie stars, and let his country starve while he lives in luxury:
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/korea/story/leader/kim.jong.il/
Oh, and Kim also got mad at Bush because Bush caught North Korea counerfeiting U.S. and other currency:
http://www.korealiberator.org/2006/04/06/is-kim-jong-il-bankrupt/
Even if N.K. had all the nuke ingredients; Bush stirred the pot, and fanned the flame. Bush is a recipe for disaster.
Blew up airplanes? Are you referring to the spy plane he forced down? That isn’t near as bad as blowing up a civilian airliner – as Israel (over the Negev) and the US (in Iran) have done.
Kim il Idiot is a cretin, that is for sure. BUT – he only became a nuclear-armed idiot in Bush’s watch.
I’m not sure there is anything to be done now. China is N.K.’s biggest supporter. We are indebted to China, they might call their debt. Or worse, they might quit supplying all of our basic manufacturing needs. Things have dramatically changed in the last 6 yrs.
Paul, your hero Bush, back in 2002, gave North Korea $95 million dollars to upgrade their nuke program. He also waived the requirement that nuclear inspectors be allowed to inspect the facilities.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1908571.stm
Without inspectors what’s to prevent North Korea from developing weapons grade plutonium?
Yes, North Koreans are starving, now they can sell nuclear weapons to the highest bidder to feed their people. What a way to stand up for your hero Bush, who has just made the world more dangerous since Saudi billionares can now buy nukes to give to their terrorist buddies. Thanks Paul, for your part in potentially killing millions of innocent people by support Bush’s pro-terrorism platform.
steve – that fact that you point out is critically important. China just might be fed up with NK. See the articles I linked on another thread this morning.
They could upstage America on this one that’s for sure. Let the world know who the real world power is.
Steve,There is NO call provision in a U.S. Treasury Bond.China can try to sell its holdings on the open market, but the United States Government is not obligated to buy back any of its bonds. (Other than U.S. Savings Bonds, which China does not hold.)
If I was making decisions for Iran, and I wanted nukes, I’d just buy the technology from N.K. or Pakistan, whichever would give the best price. They have plenty of petro dollars.
If I was making decisions for Iran, and I wanted nukes, I’d just buy the technology from N.K. or Pakistan, whichever would give the best price. They have plenty of petro dollars.China could pull their investments out of our financial markets, and watch the tailspin.
When Bush invaded Iraq and then called North Korea, Iran and Iraq the axis of evil – that’s what has caused this mess we are in today. Is it any wonder North Korea responded with a missile?
Before George W. shoots off his mouth again – he had better have more military than we have now to cover all the seeds of war he has sown.
This makes you miss the days where the Republicans were so busy tearing down Bill Clinton over his sex life that they did not have time to mess with the rest of the world – doesn’t it?
Doug–HOLY COW!
Nice find . . . file that one under “how dumb can our president get”
I give you two cartoons that says it all.
http://pff.hostkansas.com/pffimages/lilkim1ee0_(Small).gif
http://cagle.com/news/NorthKoreaBomb2/images/horsey.gif
I don’t see what the big deal is.Fly a handful of bombers in there, blow the heck out of all the nuclear facilities. See ya in 50-100 years.Iran is a little more difficult as is mentioned because they do have something the US and the civilized world wants & needs. Oil.After the nuclear ambitions were met I heard North Korea was going to start on indoor plumbing. This is a glorified 3rd world country that really doesn’t need to be worried about nor pandered to.
Axis of evil?Uh, yea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_North_Korea
Kia?
That post of yours was sophomoric and disappointing.
Do you imagine China would suffer such ministrations in what it sees as its sphere of influence? I’m inclined to doubt that. And China is well equipt to engage the United States in a planet killing war.
Kia? We have 37,000 troops in South Korea. North Korea has more than a million man army. Seoul is within artillery range of South Korea.
Side note here: The “nuke” that N. Korea detonated has not yet been proven to actually BE a nuke. But if it was it was low yield. This implies it was small……..like artillery shell small maybe. If N Korea has such a weapon, it would be impossible to detect or defend against in the rain of thousands of shells that would rain on South Korea should we “turn the bombers loose” as you advocate.
This is ASIAS problem. Let Asia sort it out. China cannot be happy about this. Let THEM address it.
Oldest rule in successful warfare: Let’s you and him fight.
I especially find it amusing that the North Koreans keep him fat while they and their children starve. How can these Communists be so blind?
My point was that even China isn’t supporting North Korea.If leader of the Communist world is against them, I don’t see much to fear.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061008/ap_on_re_as/koreas_nuclear
The Chinese are closet-capitalists! They just don’t admit it because doing so would make them “lose face.”
Sneakers, toys, stainless steel knives, virtually everything you can think of has that MADE IN CHINA stamp on it. We even have American flags made in China for Pete’s sake! Yeah, some communists they are!
Don’t forget Chinese food and fireworks.
Mr Kia, blowing up nuclear facilities would involve the spreading of radioactive debris in the atmosphere which would rain upon people in a very large radius, including America. So if your plain is attacking North Korea and poisoning billions of people then you have a great plan. Most of us don’t care for cancer.
It occurs to me that the next time NK runs a missile test would be the perfect opportunity to test that 747-mounted laser.
Mr KIA,
To quote my favorite irascible chihuahua, “your wealth of ignorance astounds me.” And your link is one day out of date.
China is absolutely continuing to to support North Korea, criticism and denunciation notwithstanding. They have no choice. If North Korea becomes a failed state and collapses, that puts 26 million refugees on China’s border. That’s an intolerable situation for any country, and is the reason China has carried North Korea for so long.
Sorry to rain on your nuclear wet dream parade (I do so hate it when I mix metaphors), but your ’solution’ isn’t going to fly. China would no more allow a pre-emptive nuclear strike on their border than we would allow China to pre-emptively strike Mexico.
If you want to run your mouth and exhibit your stupidity, be my guest. But it’s proposed antics like yours that got us into this mess.
Awesome post, CF! Perhaps less is more, if you know what I mean.************Oh, Joe? Mr. Williams? Here’s a better cartoon:http://intellectualize.org/images/mike012103.gif
Note the “012103″ (as in January 21, 2003). It’s not like we didn’t see this coming.
People can haggle over Clinton’s mistakes, but that can’t excuse Bush’s on-purposes.
Paul – while you are correct that our bonds are not callable and China cannot do any DIRECT damage you fail to see the INDIRECT effects. If China were to quit buying (or, worse yet start selling) then where would Bush go to borrow more money to finance his tremendous deficit spending. Remember supply and demand from Econ 101? Reduce the supply of credit out there and the cost to satisfy Bush’s huge demand will go up.
Jed – yes, that might be an interesting test. Except when it fails …
FLASHBACK – 2002
Note especially the paragraph about Bush waiving inspection requirements”
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/10/10/flashback-bush-grants-north-korea-nuclear-funding-in-2002/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2F2%2Fhi%2Fasia-pacific%2F1908571.stm&frame=true
US grants N Korea nuclear funds
The US Government has announced that it will release $95m to North Korea as part of an agreement to replace the Stalinist country’s own nuclear programme, which the US suspected was being misused.Under the 1994 Agreed Framework an international consortium is building two proliferation-proof nuclear reactors and providing fuel oil for North Korea while the reactors are being built.
In releasing the funding, President George W Bush waived the Framework’s requirement that North Korea allow inspectors to ensure it has not hidden away any weapons-grade plutonium from the original reactors.
President Bush argued that the decision was “vital to the national security interests of the United States”.
Boom #2?
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/15726149.htm
Boy, I guess we showed them,huh?
For starters CF, keep your insults to yourself. I’m not going to be scared off by liberal bullies like you. You hide in your blogs with your left wing views and a distorted sense of reality. You are the majority here so enjoy it.You never will be in the real world.
You leftists take the freaking cake; you whine because shrub “let” the North Koreans get the bomb. You also would have been bleating about “wag the dog” this and “warmongering” that had the shrub regime taken a hard line and conducted military strikes against the nuke facilities of North Korea.
It was the traitor, war criminal clinton who was busy bombing Seb women and babies while Kim was ramping up production of his WMD capabilities!
Viva la Raza Blanco!!
Kia?
I don’t see that CF was threatening. And if you don’t like being insulted don’t post stuff that is so easy to attack.
“Fly a handful of bombers in there, blow the heck out of all the nuclear facilities.”
Well Kia I was honestly surprised that I did not hear more of that from some other folks here. But so far you are the only one with an itchy trigger finger. A summary premptive attack on N Korea because they MAY have detonated a primitive nuke is insane.
Kia?
I don’t see that CF was threatening. And if you don’t like being insulted don’t post stuff that is so easy to attack.
“Fly a handful of bombers in there, blow the heck out of all the nuclear facilities.”
Well Kia I was honestly surprised that I did not hear more of that from some other folks here. But so far you are the only one with an itchy trigger finger. A summary premptive attack on N Korea because they MAY have detonated a primitive nuke is insane.
It shows how paranoid I think you lefties are that you would take that suggestion that seriously and how blind you really are to your hatred of Republicans and the right.To quote one of your own Barbara Streisand -”Shut the F-up if you can’t take a joke.”
http://thecelebritycafe.com/features/7673.html
Well Kia I tend to take people at what they post. You offered no qualifiers. There was no hint of hyperbole. Mean what you say or say what you mean is my advice.
Okay, Mr. KIA said this:”I don’t see what the big deal is.Fly a handful of bombers in there, blow the heck out of all the nuclear facilities. See ya in 50-100 years.”
Technically a conventional strike, but of presumed nuclear facilities.
This was a joke?? I don’t get it.
OH, I see: hyperbole. But do you realize how many nutbars out there who would SERIOUSLY make such a suggestion?
Kia, try this on for size:
/sarcasm
Include after the post–it works surprisingly well.