That was kind of my point, Jed. Not all jokers are the same. I’ve found dialogue to be possible with those people who are “pro-life” first and foremost because of their concern for or identification with the fetus (my late wife was one of those people, and we were both able to continue to live with and love one another while holding different views on abortion).

Based on what, his performance of late term abortions? Again, late term abortions are only done for extreme reasons. These are generally the terminations of WANTED pregnancies.

“Taking religion, belief or disbelief in God, and looking at this question in a purely secular view; as a society, we need to come to an agreement on what we value. If everything is acceptable and justified, then there is no justice.”

Coming to such an agreement is extremely unlikely. I would certainly hope that we could come to an understanding. The people who are strong pro-choice activists are hardly “anything goes” types of people. They see the issue as one of providing a safe option for terminating a pregnancy, and they generally take that position for two reasons, one, because they do not think that a woman who discovers that she is pregnant should be compelled to carry that pregnancy to term and two, because history has documented that women who are pregnant who do not wish to be will often pursue desperate measures. For people who honestly identify with and therefore believe in the humanity of a fetus, even though it may be very hard for them to compromise with them, there is I think a common ground there, a concern for the welfare of persons.

“I hold to a value that the potential of new being as represented in the fetus, is worthy of essence. Life in all its glory or misery is still life. When I interact with a disabled person, who am I to judge that there happiness is not as fulfilling as mine? I will not allow myself to position my essence elite to others.”

A couple of points about people with disabilities. One, there are all sorts of disabilities, including those that are invariably painful and fatal. Bringing pregancies of the latter type into the world would be like giving birth to someone in late term terminal illness. That being said, people with severe and profound developmental disabilities can and do have high qualitlies of life from their point of view and the points of view of the people who know and love them. As a result, I myself do not agree with the decision to terminate a pregnancy due to a developmental disability. On the other hand, I have also seen the effects that having people with severe, profound, or catastrophic disabilities have had on SOME families.

One last comment. I have a lot of respect for some activists in the pro=life movement. Unlike the charicatures a number of pro-choice activists have about people who label themselves pro-life, there are a number who do live their values, adopting very tough to care for children, helping women and their through difficult pregnancies, and providing networks for the safe adoption or care of children of crisis pregnancies after they are born. These people do encourage women to carry pregnancies to term but then they are also there to deal with all of the consequences. On the other hand, there are also the jerks who stand around Tiller’s yelling murderer and otherwise harrass those who are going in there. The jerks, like Randall Terry, who appear to be exactly what they appear to be, people who believe that women should be compelled to carry pregnacies to term less because of actual concern for the fetus, but also as a “that’s what you get consequence” for getting pregnant. There are also people who are probably both concerned about the fetus and are also authoritarian moralists who believe in compelling women and girls in crisis pregnancies to carry them to term.

On the other hand, I know of very few pro-choice people (in fact, I don’t know any) who are out to actually encourage people to have abortions. They are instead people who believe that the decision to carry or terminate a pregnancy should be first and foremost the decision of the woman who is pregnant. And again, that decision is generally made very early in the pregnancy, late term abortions are generally the result of a horrific change that has effected a wanted pregnancy.

One of the biggest barriers for mutual understanding (not so much with the authoritarian moralists, but the other pro-life people who are first and foremost concerned about the embryo or fetus) is that both sides all to often subscribe to the theory of the slippery slope, where simple acknowldegement of a point of view is seen as a dangerous wedge into their unified resolve, and therefore to the resulting strategy of no compromise. That’s unfortunate.

I hold to a value that the potential of new being as represented in the fetus, is worthy of essence. Life in all its glory or misery is still life. When I interact with a disabled person, who am I to judge that there happiness is not as fulfilling as mine? I will not allow myself to position my essence elite to others.

Assumed knowledge of motive that you really don’t have. There are much easier ways for doctors to make money. You might very well be motivated by your concern for “babies”. Do you really fail to understand that others may be equally horrified at the notion that any woman should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term. People do not seek late term abortions for frivolous reasons (indeed, I don’t know anyone who has had an abortion who has had one for a frivolous reason) and there are (properly, IMVSO) legal restrictions on late term abortions.

Kline, on the other hand, is on a fishing expedition. You make the claim that an examination of Tiller’s records will “reveal his motives”, but that is not the reason Kline gave for wanting to look at clinic records. He claimed he was looking for evidence of child sexual abuse (so why not go to all hospitals and request records for all childbirths to underage mothers, and why not simply request records of underaged patients, rather than the clinic records in totality). You claim that Kline is not afraid of the truth. A curious claim, that, since he seems afraid to tell the truth about his motives for wanting the records.

CapnAmerica, maybe you should stick to saving trees because you do not have the courage to stick up for an innocent baby.

IF it is ever is used.

How often does Tiller do the “partial birth” abortions and for what reasons?

Who is the monster, the innocent baby or the killer of the baby?

Maybe Stovall is “visibly angry” because she’s sick and tired of what you people have done to the once proud Republican party.

When Ann Coulter or Michele Malkin or Michael Savage rave away in a spittle flecked rage, you cheer them on.

But when a moderate like Stovall stands up in righteous indignation, she’s “emotional.”

Hey, Irvin, how’s this for emotional–what finger am I holding up?

Stay in Texas with the people who gave us the

Worst. President. Ever.

Any late term abortions like you describe would only be done for a monstrous birth or to save a woman’s life in grave peril.

How you can politicize a terrible choice like this is utterly despicable.

It takes courage to say enough to this madness. Phil Kline has the courage to stand up, while the rest of Kansas turns away like cowards.

Larry Steckline’s ag. reports i.e. pro agribusiness editorials used to drive me nuts. However, as a fellow widower I would not want to deny him happiness.

I think Bob Stephan and Carla Stovall were both good AG’s, especially in the advice they provided to governors and legislators during their terms. They more often than not focused on their honest understanding of the law regardless of whether it benefited their ideology or not. Kline is a single issue ideologue who has used the office of AG to promote his ideology. There is a reason why Stephan will not endorse Kline and Stovall is endorsing Morrison, while the biggest flake to hold the office of AG until the election of Kline, Vern Miller, backs Kline. And the reasons not JM’s laughable claim of a powergrab because once again, if Stovall had not decided to marry Steckline and retire, we wouldn’t be having a different election because Stovall would already have the power Kline has and she supposedly covets.

The reason for Stovall’s endorsement of Morrison and Stephan’s non-endorsement of Kline is that they both believe Kline is unworthy of the job. I agree.

“I don’t know whether that was a good thing or a bad thing,” he said.

Of course he was thinking from the perspective of an ag reporter.

So I forgive him.

I blew coffee all over myself when I heard it.

He owes me a pair of pants.

BTW: You mean I should vote for Morrison?

” As the Kansas Republicans have moved to the social left and ruthlessly attempted to purge the moderates from positions of influence in the party, they themselves have created the opportunity for crossover candidates.”

I, of course, meant to write that the Kansas Republicans moved to the social RIGHT.

What a dumb comment. Stovall retired as Attorney General to marry Steckline, and would probably still be in office if it wasn’t for that. The idea that she opposes Kline as a bid for power is therefore just plain goofy. She gave UP the power that Kline now has, but hopefully won’t for long.

You don’t seem to get it. The Republican Party in Kansas has largeley been taken over by extreme Christian Rightists who engender broader opposition than simply Democrats. A large proportion of Democrats in Kansas, at least until recently, were actually more conservative than the traditional moderate Republicans they competed with (e.g., the late Joan Finney and Vern Miller). As the Kansas Republicans have moved to the social left and ruthlessly attempted to purge the moderates from positions of influence in the party, they themselves have created the opportunity for crossover candidates.

As for Paul Morrison – I could care less for his views on morality, sexuality, or phlebotomy. I just don’t want to ever hear his views either. The law exists, uphold it. That’s his job.Kline thought his job was to preach in Churches to raise fury against the moderate minded and liberal minded citizens of Kansas.I can guarantee this – if this state ever gets close to or crosses over into the leadership of people of Terry Fox’s ilk – there will be a populist uprising and some old style rearranging of points of view.ICT SUX – in America we operate under the Constitution – nothing more and nothing less.You can piss on my leg all your life – I will most likely slap you every now and then to amuse myself.Terry Fox has evil in his soul.