The Rolling Stones concert proved that Wichita can deliver 32,000 fans to a topflight event — and pull off the logistics like an old pro, too.
Yes, it can happen in Wichita.
This biggest concert in Wichita’s history should silence the naysayers who whine that the new downtown arena won’t draw people and won’t sell out. Nonsense. If the 17,000-seat arena can attract top acts, then the people will come.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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86 Comments
Maybe. The Stones is unique. I HOPE the Arena can attract such acts; however I still have doubts.
That said it DID prove that traffic/parking can be handled.
But the real question will be – will the big acts choose to come to Wichita with only 17,000 seats to sell?
The Stones’ concert showed is that some 32,000 attended a live concert of a legendary group. It also showed that 5,000 seats went unsold; there was a last-minute discounting of ticket prices for the “not so good seats” which likely added to the crowd; that while traffic/parking could be handled where there existed two large parking lots in the general vicinity of the site, this doesn’t mean the same can occur in the downtown area.
With all that said, the proof will be in the performance of the Albino Pachyderm. If my overall skepticism is shown to be misplaced, good and fine. I’ll be waiting.
If any half-way intelligent businessman thought for one second they could constantly fill the arena with top acts and sell-out they would have built it. Nope, had to get the government force investors to fund it.
As long as you are forcing me to support it, I will be a ‘naysayer’. If you would have used willing investors and built a successful arena I would say ‘kudos to you’. The means are just as important as the proverbial ‘ends’.
Randy that is a bad comparison to make; there is a difference between a building structure and a good performer.
ProudMan raises an interesting point; where is the private money in this? Surely, there would be some corporation willing to pay $$ for the naming rights if there was a snowball’s chance this thing would be successful (see, e.g., the Sprint Center in KC, the existence of which, by the way, is one reason why Wichita will not see any NCAA Basketball Regionals in the Arena).
All it proved to me is that we didn’t need the downtown arena to draw the Rolling Stones.
Woodstock attracted thousands people and there wasn’t even an arena, just a large pasture. You find a good performer and they will come. Kansas has plenty of pastures. Who needs an arena?
Well, from the comments, it appears the C.A.V.E. people are out in full force. Why can’t people be progressive instead of regressive when thinking about the Cities potential. Wichita is behind the curve on alot of improvement projects compared to similarly sized cities because the majority of people in our community don’t want to support the many great things we have in this city. So what, you have to pay an additional 1 cent sales tax for 30 months. One years worth of events at the new arena will more than make up for the tax. New arena’s in both Omaha and Des Moines are attracting many top notch acts and have more than surpassed revenue projections and expectations.
Here are some of the acts in Omaha for the rest of 2006:
NBA exhibitionRascall FlattsDef Leopard/JourneyToby KeithCirque du SoleilJames BluntBlue Man GroupDisney on Ice (4 nights)Dixie ChicksThe WhoManheim Steamroller
The Qwest Center Omaha was ranked 8th of 100 arenas in ticket sales.
I see we now here from a C.S.M.W. representative.
If the arena is such a boon to the economy their should be no problem refunding the cost to the taxpayer in the form of lower sales tax in the future paid for by reciepts from the arena and associated businesses.
JW:
Don’t hold your breath waiting for that refund. In fact, don’t bet on the tax ever going away. When it expires, the city will plan on using those dollars for something else, selling the idea to the voters under the “it’s not really a tax increase – you’re already paying it” theory.
Note the “Qwest Center” in Omaha; and the corporate naming rights holder in Wichita is??
And the Wells Fargo Arena in Des Moines, Iowa; same question.
I love living in a city of old farts. Sometimes this blog sounds like a bunch of old guys sitting around an “assisted living center” griping and bitching that their kids are taking all their money. If you don’t want to improve your city and surrounding areas, shut up and get out. I’m so sick of the complainers. If we don’t work to improve the city and quality of life, what the hell are we here for? A lot of you sound like you are just waiting to die!!
In fact, I was told that they would be getting big bucks for naming rights. Well … ?
Like the groundbreaking for private development in the WaterWalk that has not happened.
The C.S.M.W.’s are at it there too.
Cessna should be used for more concerts. Music promoters locally build a stage to have ready when bands come here. A huge structure similar to the Stones.
If its pre-constructed, the idea is get more big name groups to town
Prince and Madonna. Eagles and Eric Clapton. We don’t have time learning new bands music. We have to take advantage of classic groups before they retire.
Plenty of bands to combine for us enjoy. The cost of bringing them here. Saturday night concerts better than Sunday, out of towners have travel considerations, work or school on Mondays.
No holiday concerts either. Just weekend events.
Costs will change on future concerts, using police and buses for people parking far away.
When we have more concerts in Wichita, by the time arena is constructed, this city will have a better reputation.
Some corporate name will be on the arena.
But I like Sedgwick County Arena, sponsored by Whatever Company or person. The company won’t ever put in value of the stadium that the tax paid. Unless they buy the whole arena from the County, then they could own the complete name rights.
We need the downtown arena, but we also need to make Wichita a more attractive place for events in other facilities.
Here is the thing WTF (and others)…
We are not necessarally against growth. We are against being lied to.
So far with this arena we have been lied to about the total cost, about parking, about the costs of the land, the treatment of the people in the arena foot print, and on it goes.
Now they are talking about having to do all of these road improvements. Also the drainage improvements. None of those things will be paid for out of the “arena” budget, they are coming out of the general.
We are not naysayers, we are realists. I dont know about the rest of you, but im tired of being lied to by the county, hell the city for that matter…
Hey Tony – are you an “old fart”? Why don’t you joing the C.S.M.W. bandwagon?
Mrage: didn’t expect naming rights sale to cover entire cost of arena; maybe the same percentage as the Sprint Center in Kansas City (fading memory, here, but believe somewhere around 25%)?
I happen to be one of those folks who believe the studies out there which basically say construction of an arena does little to benefit the municipality in which it is constructed unless other, fundamental, structural changes in the area have occurred which bring in new population, which then creates the demand for the type of events requiring a new arena. These include diversification of the local economy, to attract new businesses based upon creative people; increasing the level of educational services available; an active job market for spouses of younger professionals to be employed in their (the spouses’) profession; etc.
I cannot recall the name of the professor at Carnegie Mellon who is an often cited “expert” on these things. He has followed the divergent paths of Pittsburgh, PA,and Minneapolis, MN over a 20 or so year period. He chose the two cities because, at the beginning of the study, they were quite similar in population, property values, etc. At the end of the period, Pittsburgh was static; Minneapolis had achieved growth, new businesses, higher values. One factor, as I recall, he cited in the divergence was the attitude of Pittsburgh in keeping the steel industry, while Minneapolis, recognizing the moribund nature of the milling industry, had gone about attracting new, “clean” industries. There is much more to his study; but other studies, while rejecting some of his conclusions as to the cause, agreed on the effects.
I am all for improving the city, the quality of life, improvements in entertainment, etc.; for the 27 years my family and I have lived here, I have often personally spoken to civic leaders about the need to take certain actions to change things, which have been, for the most part, politely ignored, as they all centered around not depending upon manufacturing for the future.
To me, Wichita is the type of place that would kick the next Steve Jobs in the teeth when he sought financing for his project, but would bend over to give more money to, e.g., Boeing just to placate it, and then bemoan its fate when Boeing decided its corporate path dictates it go elsewhere.
Vaughn – you are 100% correct. I also have suggested a number of things over the years based on my experiences elsewhere.
Unfortunately the CSMW’s are too busy calling us CAVE people to listen.
Vaughn-
Wichita isn’t KC, they had Kemper to replace. Business is there for the Sprint Center to take advantage of, when it opens.
Our Coliseum isn’t the same. We don’t have the business ideal, what events could happen downtown yet.
Sprint leaped at the naming rights pre-construction in KC.
We don’t have that advantage. It was a iffy vote process and the County isn’t strong yet as promoter of events. Weird combining forces for our governments. They have to do it more often. County is putting money into the airport, cheaper flights.
The arena won’t change community, it makes better part of downtown.
Your not around when I rant but I’m promoting a new stadium for WSU to play football in and with other uses for County and City events, year round facility.
It will change the neighborhood and streets where that stadium is placed. When the development economics are spread to more people than just a few property holders, there can be change when a event structure is built.
Placed in an area of town where that much traffic to see events doesn’t happen now. Hasn’t happened.
Some people can’t agree the financing is possible or Wichitans could gather in 40,000 plus sizes enough. A mindset of non participation here. Its going to take a few years talking about with the gov’s, WSU and interested investors.
Wichitans will understand as the structure is built. See it, they’ll believe it.
Because Kemper is closing, Wichita has to build a bigger event facility. Get KU to play basketball tournament games in Wichita as example. Kemper is not going to be their backyard anymore.
Missouri won’t like KU in the Sprint Center for games.
If KU is playing WSU that will be at the Koch on campus.
I don’t think KU will play on their own in the downtown arena, not enough seats.
Regionally, Wichita has to build a better event facility, to bring more events nationally. So much is tied to that, bringing more traffic to the airport, changing an area of town underdeveloped. More people involved in the economic process.
Mrage – why would KU play their games in Wichita instead of either on campus or down the road in KC? I don’t think MO would stand in the way of using Sprint.
If the Arena is going to be too small as you say they better figure that out now.
“Some people can’t agree the financing is possible or Wichitans could gather in 40,000 plus sizes enough. A mindset of non participation here. Its going to take a few years talking about with the gov’s, WSU and interested investors.
Wichitans will understand as the structure is built. See it, they’ll believe it.”
But how will you pay for it when we don’t believe it?
Ben- I do believe Missouri will pitch a fit if KU is constantly playing in Sprint.
KU is in our state, the biggest city should attract them. Its our duty when KU makes a tournament happen in the future. KSU playing in Wichita, but not in Koch Arena.
Wish we had it now with the buzz KSU basketball is getting.
The downtown arena is not big enough for that stuff. They know it but their hoping for expansion when corporate puts money in, years down the road.
It’s a tippy toe process downtown starting small. Politicians are scared going over that tax amount and length of time as they should be.
I only have to prove to investors and bankers its possible, not the general public. The idea will be worked out before its ever promoted. A group of developers is building a stadium. It will attract “events”. When people see it being built, they might get curious to buy a ticket. It’s a County, City project too. The buzz WSU football is returning a national story. Stadium construction will be in national articles.
Power to replace Kemper in KC was enormous politically. Voters got in to make it work excited. They pumped money into Chiefs and Royals stadium improvements.
We don’t have that in the downtown arena process. We’ll only get that building a regional event facility.
We don’t have the energy right now fixing LD fast.
Good luck!
Lest anyone label me an “old fart” an offensive and juvenile term to be sure, I do have to say;
The Strolling Bones are OLD. If they weren’t they wouldn’t have been playing in such out of the way cities. Seriously, this is not a BIG city and I for one am really happy about that. I like this area because it’s not big. If I had wanted big I would have moved to Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, Dallas or some other major metropolis.
Building the arena is not going to attract first rate entertainers unless they already want to come here. Many entertainers like to play smaller venue just because they like the intimacy they find there. The arena is just another in a long line of “next new thing” for the city and county. They refuse to take care of what we have, aren’t interested in making the things we already have better. It is a waste of not just money but land, people and services.
In November, remember who was for what and vote your opinion. For those who are for Wichita and the people that live here or for developers and land grabbers.
Sean– There isn’t enough jealously going on here when property is being paid for twice or three times its value.
A few buildings downtown isn’t the same as changing a neighborhood.
You might live in the wrong place when developments happen and your property isn’t affected.
If you look around Wichita properly ,developments must happen. It can’t be just the government doing big projects either. When things are built, participate, that’s being a community spirit.
If your going to complain and still not see events or things going on in the future, who is at fault?
Why live here in this city or county? More rural cities and counties exist. It’s in Wichita’s best interest to grow. More people moving here with more things to do is a legitimate civic goal.
Core facilities Cessna Stadium, the Coliseum, Lawrence Dumont, the Ice Center are not functioning properly. High schools with poor facilities on their campus.
Where people can group to see something, its not that great.
A lot to fix in Wichita definately.
GMC and CR are right.
Because the Stones sold out a 35,000 seat stadium is no reason to assume that an arena half that size is going to attract the same kind of act.
Also, this was sold to us on false pretenses by the mayor and the average citizen is getting taxed to build a playground for Koch Industries executives (welfare for the rich).
If it’s such a great idea, why can’t the “free market” invest in it?
Answer: it’s not a great idea.
And why The Eagle is so on board with this transparent boosterism is a mystery.
We sold more seats than Boston did for the Rolling Stones. That’s saying something.
Are you sure Joe? I know Boston didn’t sell out for their re-run but they were playing a larger venue.
The stones are the biggest concert in the world- and it didn’t even sell out. So, I don’t THINK so.
Fixing the Coliseum was dumb, Capn.
Nuff said. It has to be replaced.
The question, can our downtown arena bring in big events. Is it large enough?
No it isn’t. It can’t be so quickly either. 18,000 seats in the future? Definately.
Could be sooner years if corporate puts enough money into the project. That’s new to our county selling the naming rights and partnerships.
The arena will be helped if we get a casino dowtown, WaterWalk finished, more quality hotel choices.
if corporate puts enough money into the project.
if we get a casino dowtown, WaterWalk finished, more quality hotel choices.
Lots of very BIG ifs.
The failing point of the Arena is that it is an Arena!
If it were a Convention Center, than the Arena could be financially stable. There are hundreds of Conventions, shows, etc… that wont come to Wichita because Century II is too small…
This idea of building an Arena is ridiculous. Build a convention center that can be used as an arena. Build the thing so that a hotel can easily build adjacent to build a complex.
Build meeting rooms, build small halls, etc… I went to Century II/Hyatt last week and EVERY meeting room was booked. Taking with some friends, they are always booked.
Build a new convention center, sell Century II to a casino and lets move along…
U guys want to bitch about something, bitch about that… I was supportive of the Arena idea, im not supportive of HOW it came to be. I’m tired of government lying to us.
Lots of very BIG ifs…even then, no guarentee Wichitans will behave.
Can’t see themselves in the Arena. Hotels too pricey over $100 a night kind of rooms, WaterWalk? for how long? Not everyday. Not once a week. Maybe once a month. Is the area open late or not. Going to a Casino isn’t affordable.
A mindset has to change in some people. Alter their life and budgets. It’s not going to happen overnight.
But people can be trained. Fix the facilites to see events that are the cheapest. High school fields.Grade School too.
Then you can imagine easier attempts seeing Arena events. Going to concerts there and conventions more than seeing sports. They can find a parking space downtown.
Then we have to engage WSU, combining what they do, with a county/city event facility.
Spirit of Wichita is broken because of seperate, not functioning facilities.That civic spirit barely exists today.
“That civic spirit barely exists today.”
What do u mean?
Music theater is nearly always sold out, the symphony is sold out every year, this city has hosted many many sold out smaller concerts, we have river festival, we have a dozen museums.
What are you talking about Mrage?
Tony,
The obstruction to fixing what’s broken in this city. The list is long.
We do events like you described, but even Century II like you said, needs fixing inside. The city can’t afford to fix Century II.
The arena will do conventions, it has to be designed that way, some flexibility on floor events besides sports. It won’t do “dirt” shows.
I hope for a Casino group to buy The Hyatt, Library Building, since they want a new place and remodel inside of Century II where we would see Casino shows.
River Festival, forget a concert there, never enough sound for all the people gathered.
Downtown needs a arena and stadium for high school sports. Helps the downtown high schools. West, East and North. County schools would play games in the stadium. Running track for anyone to use, monthly memberships.
River Festival with concerts in the arena or stadium would would work better.
Have to fix High School campus fields and gyms all over town as a necessity.
Update Lawrence Dumont for whatever minor league baseball in the future.
We do these things without complaining. If short term taxes have to be raised, so be it.
That’s the Spirit of Wichita, needs to change.
Whether people agree or not, WSU not having football harms our collective spirit. But still things can be improved, without WSU football today.
Out of town people can’t understand why Wichita isn’t helping WSU bring the program back. We don’t have the stadium WSU could play in, is the answer.
Cessna could be used for more concerts if WSU wants, but not college football. Like the Coliseum, not worth improving the facility more. Its got a great track but does Wichita use it enough? No.
A walking, running track, downtown stadium is the answer. People should walk and run by the river more often.
When we get a Boathouse on the river that rents row boats, little sail boats, has classes to make boats, until then we’re not on the right path using the river properly. Boathouse with a dock!
A Boathouse that doesn’t rent boats and its loved, describes Wichita perfectly.
The one Epic Tower instead of two. Business isn’t making this city grow taller yet.
WHAT!
Ok, let me hit this point by point just so i can make though it…
“The city can’t afford to fix Century II.”
The city can but it wont…
“The arena will do conventions, it has to be designed that way, some flexibility on floor events besides sports. It won’t do “dirt” shows.”
Umm… Please point out where it is stated that the arena will be used for conventions. So far things that are required for conventions are not being planed for. Things like built in power, telecommunications, meeting rooms, larger event halls, designing the building and land to accommodate future expansion and connection to a hotel, etc… Please, if they are, than please note it…
“Downtown needs a arena and stadium for high school sports.” It does. Its called Lawrence Demount Stadium. They used to play football there years ago… They can do it again.
WSU Football, ill stay away from that one…
“A Boathouse that doesn’t rent boats and its loved, describes Wichita perfectly.” The city is actively trying to tear that down and give it to Debor for its corporate offices. Koch wants to bring boat house back to be a boat house.
As for the river fest, the city is already planning on rebuilding the West Bank stage into a more permanent amphitheater. Something i have said is needed for years.
So… Anything else Mrage??
Oh and the 2nd epic center, i will agree w/ u on that one…
I’m working on jump starting our spirit Mrage!
You and I have exchanged e-mails about this before we were even active on this blog.
:)
I have hope for Wichita. I really do. I think we took a good beating in the 80’s and 90’s because of our super dependence on aircraft industry and blue collar unions. We had a rust belt mentality and economy for so long. But since 2000, so much has change in Wichita for the better and it’s only going to grow and get better.
I was just researching last night on our development to initiate Intelligent Transportation System in Wichita. Not including the development of an Intermodel Port fully International and Customs supported coming soon. The Spirit Corridor (many promenant people are involved in this). The NW Bypass and the rebuilding of I-235. Plus the new airport terminal.
While people may look at ammenities, I look at infrastructure. That what builds business. Focus on that and the rest will follow.
But I thought we couldn’t get big name acts unless we got an arena.
Clearly that argument is pretty much gone when we get the biggest rock n roll band in world history to Wichita and we don’t have a downtown arena.
SeanManair,The Stones are playing major cities on this tour as well as new places. They are playing Soldier Field in a week.Were you at the show? Do you think you could accomplish Mick Jagger’s physical performance? I know very few people who could match Mick’s fitness. So, getting old has nothing to do with Rock-n-Roll anymore.You are a fuckstick.
Thank you Joe…
Ben and I have been talking about Infrastructure for years. In fact, a perfect example was the shutting down of Main Street, it shows exactly how under-built downtown and the Kellogg on-ramps were….
Same example can be used for Kellogg and 235.
I don’t go to Century II because it’s in DOWNTOWN WICHITA.
Betcha would PM if there was a good concert or event u want to go to was there…
I remember seeing B.B. King at Century II. Awesome concert.
Political_mom, are you from Wichita? Before I moved to Wichita, I would never drive downtown either. It’s really not that bad. Rock Road is the srea you want to avoid.
Tony,
We agree more than disagree.
Century II won’t be updated by the City, no matter the reason.
The Arena doesn’t have to be connected to a hotel..I’m not in the mix how the arena is designed, but its obvious, the arena has to do more conventions. Especially since Century II isn’t going to be fixed.
Sports is not going to carry the Arena alone. I’ll find out.
Lawrence Dumont should never be a football field for high school games. It’s going to stay a baseball stadium.
Koch doesn’t want his boathouse torn down. Neither do some people.
River Bank Ampitheater won’t ever be built. Concerts in the arena more a thought now. Somebody with a small group, Wichita Idol kind of events at a river bank Ampitheather, maybe.
A rocking concert will never happen. Too wide an area and paying for bands is better if people are buying seats.
The downtown high schools to share need a stadium is evident.
Joe,
Somebody needs to figure out how a bullet train network can happen, getting people faster in groups in and out of town, just like the highway systems and airport.
New elevated tracks? Bullet train tech exists. Getting us to the borders faster in + section of tracks. How neighboring states join our bullet train compact up to them. Get to OKC, St. Louis direction, KC, toward Colorado and Nebraska on bullet trains, the very long term ideal for Wichita and getting through Kansas.
Airlines have a strangle hold on Wichita too much. Its not affordable flying short distances, they charge too much. So its a car now, no matter the better highways or bullet train in the future. Speed up transportation in and out of town.
Jobs that would create. Wichita has to be the engine of that.
wichita sucks anyway. the old stones are 40 years too late. what a slap in the face to poor ole wichita. im glad i moved. you can have your sorry arena and your sorry concerts….and lack there of!
Mrage! Texas has been trying to build one for a long time but meet all kind of political opposition.
http://www.thsrtc.com/
Also! KDOT looked into the feasibility of having passenger rail service conntecting Wichita to KC and OKC.
PDF (2 megs)
http://www.ksdot.org/archive/burrail/krpt6_1.pdf#search=%22passenger%20rail%20train%20from%20wichita%20to%20KC%22
Damn. A nice arena downtown will be great! It opens a lot of potential for Wichita which just proved it can handle it with the Stones concert. So what if it’s a playground for the Koch heads. It’ll still be a playground for everyone else as well. Just chill and try to enjoy the damn thing when it’s done. Damn.
JimG,//SeanManair,The Stones are playing major cities on this tour as well as new places. They are playing Soldier Field in a week.Were you at the show? Do you think you could accomplish Mick Jagger’s physical performance? I know very few people who could match Mick’s fitness. So, getting old has nothing to do with Rock-n-Roll anymore.You are a fuckstick.//
To answer your most pleasant and enlightening comment.No, I wasn’t at the show. No I wouldn’t want to try to imitate Jagger and his performance. It’s sad enough that someone of his advanced years could do that, but you know drugs are getting better and better. And do not tell me that Mick and the boys don’t take drugs, I remember them when they were young and they never met a drug the didn’t like.I also don’t spend my very hard earned cash on watching a bunch of Grandfathers prance around the stage like 22 year olds. If that’s what gets ya going, whatever.As for your last line, it doesn’t surprise me that since you can’t make a decent argument about the arena you chose to use foul, disgusting and loathsome language. How old are you 13? Do you eat with that mouth? I’ll just bet you parents are so proud of you. I guess that freedom of speech and opinion is only for people who agree with you. Sorry I didn’t know the rules.
“A nice arena downtown will be great! Wichita just proved it can handle it with the Stones concert.”
SORRY — I DON’T BUY THAT. A successful Stones concert on a beautiful fall Sunday evening at WSU doesn’t justify spending a quarter of a billion dollars, yes, that’s $250,000,000, of the taxpayers’ money for a questionable downtown WHITE ELEPHANT sports and ice hockey arena.
Frankly, its doubtful if any sports teams will agree to play in the arena on a long term basis. That is how sports teams make their money — on ticket sales, food sales, advertising sales, etc. They would want their own smaller sports arena somewhere in the suburban area along the freeway system. Probably up north near the Kansas Coliseum. Why would they want to work hard for the County arena?
I know you Arena cheerleaders like to say the sales tax is only one cent but that was a 17% increase in the sales tax inching closer to the 10% sales tax (now about 7%) which I have a bet on with a political person that we will reach by 2010.
In addition to sales taxes, our property taxes in Sedgwick County are burgeoning upward to cover the new airplane technical school and expanded jail space. This was recently authorized by your big spending Sedgwick County Commissioners: Birtnet, Winters, Norton, Shortino and Unruh.
Shortino, Unruh and Birtnet NEED TO BE REPLACED IN THE NOVEMBER GENERAL ELECTION.
No XXX I’m not from Wichita, and isn’t that kindof the point? Out of towners don’t want to drive downtown- but that’s who you’re trying to attract.
And I’d rather drive Rock over Kellogg any day…I avoid Kellogg like the plague. I’ve been in Century 2 ONCE in all my years.
Oh excuse me, I forgot about my cousin’s graduation..make that TWICE in all my life. And I didn’t drive there either time.
But the Colliseum, I’ve been there more times than I can count.
Quit your complaning. The best thing that ever happened to Oklahoma City and the downtown Bricktown revitalization effort was the building of the Ford Center. You should be grateful to have such problems. As others have noted, all kinds of events can be held if rock and roll is not your cup of tea. If you build it, they will come…
okc?
I’ve been to the Ford center for a dog show.
The Ford center has ample parking. The Wichita debacle does not.
Shame on all of you who say they have never attended events @ Century II…off-broadway shows, music of all sorts; rock to symphony and so on. Stop knocking Downtown. Sounds like some would be happier if the downtown faded away?!! Where would you have a facility built? Next to your neighborhood, out on the highway, on your side of town? That’s what downtown’s are for; a central location for all to gather…think townsquare. If more people went to functions with open minds and hearts you would feel the hearbeat of your city, both present and past. I used to live in Wichita and I remember a city with a thriving spirit, not a condemning one. In this lifetime there is so much to see and hear with so little time. EMBRACE YOUR CITY’S PROGRESSIVE NATURE!
The Ford Center didn’t start out with ample parking. We went throught growing pains and survived just as you will. It can still stand some improvement for that matter but has come a long way.
p.s. Dog shows are held across the street from the Ford Center at the Cox Convention Center
It’s going to be better for all in the county that don’t live in Wichita, find their way and park downtown for events.
It will feel more inclusive, County and City folk mingling.
I want to replace “dirt shows” from the Coliseum in a future event facility, again, the process will bring County folk back into City limits.
We have to place event facilities seemingly closer to the airport and near “quality” hotels. Downtown will attract the best hotels, this County could provide.
Heart of the County is downtown Wichita. Get used to the idea, folks.
It’s too bad, this heart isn’t beating strong yet. Needs a triple bypass of projects finished.
I’ve lived in Wichita all my life.
I have been to OKC and the Ford/Cox facility once.
NO ONE will come to Wichita when OKC KC and Denver are so close.
OKC, KC and Denver are not close. One hour drive, two hour tops. When a road trip happens, your driving or flying to those cities.
All the people we need to support downtown Wichita live within a two hour drive. County event facilities downtown. Casino. Best Hotels. Minor league baseball.
Stadium and arena downtown where county high schools play games on occasion will help bring people downtown.
That’s it, county folk within two hour drive and Wichitans all sides of the city heading toward downtown for entertainment.
To completely attract out of towners, we need college football. That kind of energy coming to see games. That sport brings in more fans that any other event in this country. Cheaper than NFL games. Energy is better. Its young people but not yet adults. Still children and looking younger and younger as I’m getting older. Those are kids in college.
I remember when downtown was the hub of activity, long before malls took over. That’s where we shopped! Even the Harry Street Mall opened after I’d graduated from high school, so I grew up shopping at Innes/Macy’s, Montgomery Ward, the Model and tons of other stores downtown. I quickly learned how to drive in downtown traffic, and it isn’t any worse now than it was when I was 16. And for most of those years I lived 20 miles from Wichita, so the drive into town was worse than the drive IN town.
I really want to see downtown become something more than what it is now. There are possibilities and I try to stay positive. Maybe the arena will sink, maybe it won’t, but we’re stuck with it, whether we like it or not. But either way, we need more, and we need to decide if we’re a big city or a small town and act like it.
Tony,
Besides the lack of meeting rooms, another reason we don’t pull in conventions like other, bigger, major cities do is because we don’t have the number or size of hotels needed.
A large (8500+ member), national organization I belong to holds a conference each year. Attendance caps out at 2000, and most years registration is full early. Since 1999, the cities where our conferences were held have been Chicago, D.C., New Orleans, NYC, Denver, Dallas, Reno, and Atlanta. Because we need a large number of rooms and a lot of meeting rooms, along with ballrooms for luncheons and ceremonies, we have to have a large hotel. Wichita doesn’t even come close to what we’d need. There’s no way anything like our conferences could be held in the Hyatt, and I sure don’t see anything bigger being built in the near future.
We just don’t have the facilities to encourage large organizations to come here. Not the kind of facilities many groups are looking for. Too bad, too.
Who drew whom? Did Wichita actively go out and seek the Stones, or did the Stones simply say, gee, we haven’t been in the Wichita area since the last time Keith Richards got arrested for drug possession. Was it effort or effortless?
Mrage makes a good point about the lack of coordination in this city. Consider …
A stadium for HS football. Use Cessna. Friday night City league. Saturday afternoon Chisolm Trail/Ark Valley. Pre-schedule the first few there and then choose “high-lighted” games as the season progresses. Get the 6A football tournament.
Arena. A BIG mistake was made when the money was spent on Koch. Obviously something had to be done with the old roundhouse; however this should have been coordinated (I called for this at the time). A SPORTS/concert facility roughly between WSU and Old Town seating up to 20,000 – big enough for NCAA sub-regionals and maybe even regionals. Locate it along I-135, east side, somewhere between 9th St and 21st St. EZ on-off the highway.
Conventions. Center this around the Century II/Library; perhaps work in a casino. I think the Library function could be moved to another downtown location which would open up that site. Renovations at the Broadview (perhaps a casino location would add useable rooms. Improvements to nearby ‘2nd-tier’ hotels nearby will help. Then shuttle buses from east and west hotels can fill in. At conventions I have attended (Atlanta, Chicago, KC, Seattle, Washington, etc) we routinely used shuttle buses.
The problem here is that nobody has been willing to step back and look at the big picture. So, we get bits and pieces but no coherent system. Mrage – what happens to the Arena if we then build competing facilities for basketball, hockey, etc? NONE of them will be viable.
“The problem here is that nobody has been willing to step back and look at the big picture”
Thank you Ben,
This seems to be the motto of the City Council and County Commission.
I made the comment after Katrina and also after the Indian Ocean tsunami that authorities should declare a moratorium on doing any rebuilding. The reason: step back and figure out what the heck is going on. THEN commence with building.
Ben-
Cessna can’t take all the high school football games. They have to pay WSU for each one.
My stadium downtown idea, that could attract county schools to play games, along with city league schools, none of them have to pay to use the field. School board gear costs, marking the fields that equipment will be worked out. But no pay per game, like WSU charges.
Sports facilities at each school campus have to be fixed all around town.
If another smaller gym is built elsewhere that has 2,000 seat ability, metal blechers, that won’t affect the arena. The biggest games played there or at Koch.
The county and city can’t schedule events at Koch all the time, along with WSU sports.
So two arena’s with that many seats have to used. We need the downtown arena. Just for the larger event oppurtunities.
We need to improve school facilities. They all matter if properly thought about, group of facilities city wide.
Place to hold events, how useful for the sports teams, how are fans seating situations.
They don’t pay? How would it pay its bills?
I agree that we need to upgrade school facilities; in my school district we are doing so.
I wouldn’t put ‘all’ games in Cessna – just a pair of highlighted games each week.
I like that you think big – I just don’t see how it would all work.
Close as Bob Seger is getting on his tour is K.C.If Wichita is good enough for the Stones, it ought to be good enough for anyone!
Ben-
Gate Receipts.
Friday night lights, downtown! Game of the week, best match ups. Along with other improvements, WaterWalk, Casino, in the area, people walking around finding something to do and see.
Count on high school playoff games.
If ever juco’s would want to play on Saturday or Sunday downtown, they’ll pay.
Monthly memberships to use the track and gym for anyone.
Kids won’t be using that during the day. They practice on their own campus.
Count on River Festival concerts and use in the summers. Attracting other events to use the field if the set up is right.
Cost to play won’t be on high school games, charged to the schools. Gate reciepts for the event go to the facility.
I know with the School Board that has to be worked out.
The debt, paying for lights and maintenance, payroll are monthly, but long term use, keeping the facility busy will make all the costs work out long term.
Parking will be free so combining forces with the city has to happen.
It’s a stadium the city can’t afford to build. School board can’t do it. But its going to be built and owned by the group put together. We’ll share costs how ever it will go. City takes care of the lights cost per month, that would be nice.
Gate receipts should also be able to pay for Cessna. And that could be done NOW – the stadium is there. Even if only temporary to prove the long-term feasibility.
At some point I’d like to get together to walk some of the Century II/Hyatt/Broadview/Library/Carnegie area to consider casino ideas.
Let’s get Phil Ruffin or his son walking down there. They are local casino authorities. I don’t know if they could turn Library into a gambling hall or not. It would seem the right idea, casino group buys the Hyatt, Library and inside of Century II, where we would see stage shows. Whatever things the Casino group would attract folks to see. Animals.
People in Vegas show up to see Mike Tyson practice boxing. For what reason, he can’t understand. Casino probably pays him just to keep folks walking in.
That kind of weird human side show in Wichita.
Cessna is too large for high schools to fill it, no matter the importance of the game.
I don’t know why a Championship package when some local juco in a National Championship game can’t be played locally at WSU. They go to Derry, Idaho or somewhere.
What kind of sports and entertainment set up, that juco organsistaion group could agree to. Butler County has been winning recent Juco National Championships, but they never have a “home field” game, even as the favorite with the best record.
Cessna used for more big time concerts should happen.
Could be used for juco’s now but its a grass field, so having too many events, hard keeping that surface decent. Even with good weather.
Downtown stadium will have the finest turf.
RD said it well. Where will good future hotels go? Can’t imagine another quality hotel like the Hyatt downtown unless we get the casino.
We can’t get an increase in conventions. Someone said, Wichita has enough decent hotel rooms, but not the best kind. More upscale rooms are necessary. It’s what out of towners like!
Tony’s idea is to start a casino in the north side of the Broadview – that addition just north of Chelsea’s Bar&Grill. Expand northward to 1st St. (Tony – if I am screwing this up pipe in).
My idea uses the Library – slots etc in the open floor and cards in the upper floors. The casino we visited in Montreal had such a layout.
Shows in Century II as now.
Hotel on Main south of the library parking area.
Maybe a nice restaurant in Carnegie.
Someone (maybe you?) suggested building a stage that could be used at Cessna repeatedly for concerts. Interesting idea for bringing in shows.
Yeah, I mentioned local promotors pre-building a stage that can be altered so future bands invited don’t have to truck theirs here completely.
WSU would have venue ideas selling to bands. The stage wouldn’t stay standing, it would have to be taken apart constantly. Every fall months, August to November possible for concerts. Saturday night concerts allow more to travel and go to work on Monday.
No new bands, combine groups, Eagles and Eric Clapton. Prince and Madonna. We have to catch up with concerts fast before they retire!
If I was a Hotel guy, the Broadview would be torn down and replaced.
The old Hilton is a condo now, but that’s a location if hotels were fighting for land.
That building corner of Douglas and Main, a big question. Its not useful now and tearing down, bunch of federal red tape, but that’s a great location for future hotel.
Parking garages are within walking distance to that building. Suite Hotel kind of place.
Main Street south – between the Library and Kellogg. Lots of vacant land on the west side of Kelloss and easy access.
Maybe a casino in that building on the river just south of the Boathouse with a nice restaurant in the Boathouse.
Fighting with WaterWalk and their goals, I don’t know. Any land south of the Hyatt to Kellogg on both sides of the river, WaterWalk zone of improvements.
When the County was determining locations for the arena, east of Main, across from WaterWalk was described.
Build a casino there or hotel. Some buildings have to be torn down in that zone so it would be costly
Forget the idea of open land, what’s the best placement for new structures so walking around downtown is more possible.
Some ties from WaterWalk toward direction of the Arena, area to improve.
I have no idea where a new library would go. They must know.
A number of possibilities for a new library further north – it is a business use. As for WaterWalk – maybe this would finally put something there. I haven’t seen a whole lot of scrambling for space.
One thing about west side Main is that a pedestrian way could be established from kellogg to Douglas connecting everything. No real major east-west streets to cross.
Please tell me again, why, when I will never be able to afford tickets to an event in this arena, I am being forced to help pay for the damn thing by people who can not only afford tickets to every event, but will own their own parking space at it!
someone needs to research the details and find out why most if not all of the projects favored by several big local contractors never seem to stand on their own.
they work do in other towns, but not here… why?
.
oh yeah…speaking of those old people who belong in an assisted living arrangement in stead of being allowed to post here…
who the hell do ya think bought the tickets to see the stones…??
why the hell do we need a new library.
Well apparently we will need a new library when kook Mrage turns the existing one into a casino. Sheesh.
And this idea for high school football dowtown? FORTUNATELY this is not the deep south where attendance at high school football attendance is as “compulsory” as church on Sunday. Let’s not try to swerve that direction.
Even a “major event” like the Rolling Stones concert did not sell out in this burg. Face it, Wichita is a dim spot in the middle of nowhere. We are not geographically interesting.
Why not capitalize instead on a higher brow approach to tourism? Expand on the ideas behind Exploration Place. Make stodgy conservative old Wichita an arts and intellectual draw.
Exile…The library has too much stuff and requesting more space. It’s mentioned on the Wichita.gov website, if you care to look for that info. They want a new building. Elsewhere too.
JR– West, East and North could use a downtown stadium so says the School Board Athletics administrator. The State Athletics board say it would be a facility that could attract state high school play off games.
It would be a another facility, you never have to be in. Make a list. Mr. I won’t do nuthin…
Move your dim view of Wichita self out of this area. Its not going to stay this way. Its been this way too long.
When your talents help Exploration Place make ten and under kids free to enter, it will be on the right path. When adults find the museum worth visiting constantly without kids too.
No one is stopping you from trying more “high brow” tourism ideas, don’t expect the city to do it on their own.
I tend to think, physical abilities help a mind think and be more creative. Sports is artistry to me and so many go through the process of sports as kids to adults, it’s worth being healthier as people.
If Sedgwick County offered museum space for things the Cosmosphere wanted to show, more space program and rocket stuff. Get parts of the shuttle when they stop being used to show.
Sedgwick County would have to pay Reno County some Millions of Dollars. Cosmosphere will still be open out there to work on stuff.
Where the Coliseum stands used to be my idea place for a museum, but with Wild West World across the street, clash of those projects wouldn’t work now.
Can’t move the Observatory near Lake Afton to downtown. So space stuff in Wichita is just another museum we could built.
If “high brow” isn’t here enough, its up to you making it.
That would require you to see this whole community in a more positive and hopeful way.
30,000 ROLLING STONES FANS MUST KNOW SOMETHING.
Perhaps there is potential for several privately financed sports arenas and convention centers in Wichita. And, perhaps there is yet hope for a privately financed sparkling international bowling center/convention center with all the bells and whistles somewhere along the Arkansas River.
Owners of professional sports teams hope to make a PROFIT on ticket sales, food service, advertising, media presentations, parking fees and related factors.
WHY WOULD AN OWNER OF A FOR-PROFIT PROFESSIONAL TEAM WORK HIS BUNS OFF TO SUPPORT A PUBLIC-OWNED ARENA? NOT FOR LONG, I GUARANTEE YOU!
Private investors will come out of the woodwork to build private arenas if a financially feasible sport and team is developed.
Now a convention center has different requirements than a sports arena. Conventions come in all sizes and shapes and might need the facility for a week or a month or more. Like bicyles and automobiles, sports arenas and conventions centers don’t mix very well.
A church-oriented convention would presumably wish to be in a family type environment. A national bowling convention requires the bowling alleys and some restaurants and other recreational facilities nearby. Who knows what a political convention would require — probably depends if Republicans or Democrats.
One great option would be for the cities of Park City, Valley Center and other suburbs on north edge of Wichita to assume ownership of the Kansas Coliseum. According to pro-arena supporters and current county commissioners, its worthless anyhow. Perhaps the county should pay those suburban cities to take it over.
The Kansas Coliseum has 10,000 seats and 5,000 automobile parking spaces on a horizontal unobstructed parking lot located immediately adjacent to a high capacity freeway. Frankly, the Coliseum has wonderful potential if renovated.
DO YOU AGREE?