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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Oct. 9, 2006 at 12:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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97 Comments
Bikers Against Child Abuse give “statesman” Phill Kline award for his help protecting children. Secretary of State Thornburgh also receives award
http://www.kansasmeadowlark.com/2006/10-07
An organization headed by a Southern Baptist minister gives Kline an endorsement. Gee, there’s a shocker.
I fail to see how pushing for increased teen pregnancy is somehow fighting child abuse.
Kansas needs to apologize for Phil Kline. that’s all.
Just a reminder that the registration to vote deadline is coming up soon, so PLEASE, if you have not already done so, register here:
http://www.kssos.org/elections/elections_registration.html
Mail it in as fast as you can.
Advance voting requests are on that page as well, if you can’t ever seem to find the time, or just can’t handle waiting in line-it’s worth it to get the ballot mailed to you.
I still say that it’s a whole lot less about protecting children than it is about abortion clinics.
To the 5 parents in Derby wishing to censor their children’s high school yearbook…the parent that said the yearbook should focus on academics and not social events…excuse me, but that is what the yearbook is all about, social events: their lives as teens in that high school. There are often memorials to kids who passed, there are all sorts of pictures about daily life, so why not show REALITY of teen pregnancy and tattoos as well?
I applaud the Derby students for not pushing their social ‘ills’ under the rug, and instead, making them part of the reality of teen life.
I’m glad the yearbook people are backing them up.
AMERICA HELD HOSTAGE:DAY 2087…..
NEW & IMPROVED!!NOW WITH MORE NUKES WORLDWIDE!!
How can a yearbook be anything but social activities and sports? It’s not like anything else goes on in public high schools.
Yeah aint that the sheet. Boy George, I feel safer!
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig7/stojan1.html
Is Goldman Sachs manipulating the gasoline futures market to push prices down before the November elections?
It sure looks that way.
An article appeared this Saturday in the New York Times pointing to some unusual trading by Goldman Sachs in the gasoline futures market. As Raymond Keller, who spotted the article, points out, “They always hide the good stuff in the low circulation Saturday edition.”
What’s Goldman doing?
Here’s how the Times reports it:
Politics and worries about oil supplies may have caused gasoline prices to go up at the pump earlier this year, but one big investment bank quietly helped their rapid drop in recent weeks, according to some economists, traders and analysts.
Goldman Sachs, which runs the largest commodity index, the G.S.C.I., said in early August that it was reducing the index’s weighting in gasoline futures significantly. The announcement did not make big headlines, but it has reverberated through the markets in the weeks since and some other investors who had been betting that gasoline would rise followed suit on their weightings.
I have not found the links yet but,
1. Bush has quit adding oil to the strategic oil reserves.
2. Saudis are dumping oil on the market
Having a tattoo is a social ill?
Hope they have lots of sand in Derby to bury their heads in. After all, if they ignore teen pregnancy and body piercings, that means they don’t exist, right?
Well said raptor.
Good conspiracy theory stuff
http://themessthatgreenspanmade.blogspot.com/2006/10/friends-in-high-places.html
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/ article Occam’s razor posted Oct.7,2006
A marine’s view of Iraq:
The Secret Letter From IraqA Marine’s letter home, with its frank description of life in “Dante’s inferno,” has been circulating through generals’ in-boxes. We publish it here with the author’s approval
All: I haven’t written very much from Iraq. There’s really not much to write about. More exactly, there’s not much I can write about because practically everything I do, read or hear is classified military information or is depressing to the point that I’d rather just forget about it, never mind write about it. The gaps in between all of that are filled with the pure tedium of daily life in an armed camp. So it’s a bit of a struggle to think of anything to put into a letter that’s worth reading. Worse, this place just consumes you. I work 18-20-hour days, every day. The quest to draw a clear picture of what the insurgents are up to never ends. Problems and frictions crop up faster than solutions. Every challenge demands a response. It’s like this every day. Before I know it, I can’t see straight, because it’s 0400 and I’ve been at work for 20 hours straight, somehow missing dinner again in the process. And once again I haven’t written to anyone. It starts all over again four hours later. It’s not really like Ground Hog Day, it’s more like a level from Dante’s Inferno.
Most Profound Man in Iraq — an unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied “Yes, you.”
Biggest Outrage — Practically anything said by talking heads on TV about the war in Iraq, not that I get to watch much TV. Their thoughts are consistently both grossly simplistic and politically slanted. Biggest Offender: Bill O’Reilly.
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/10/08/the-secret-letter-from-iraq/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.time.com%2Ftime%2Fworld%2Fprintout%2F0%2C8816%2C1543658%2C00.html&frame=true
The Marine Who Saw Too Much
By Peter Laufer, AlterNet. Posted June 15, 2006.
A former lance corporal explains why he intentionally failed a drug test to avoid going back to war-torn Iraq.
Fighting in the war flipped Daniel’s political beliefs. “I came back very anti-Bush. I used to be a Republican before I joined the military. Not any more.” His experiences on the ground, he says, convinced him he’d been lied to. The Iraqis “are a defeated people,” he says, not a threat to America. “It’s a third-world country. These people walk around with no shoes, nothing. These guys are working for a dollar a day. The military would pay the village people to come on base and build sandbags so that they can be more comfortable in their tents and pay them a dollar a day, and these guys will work making seven dollars a week just to feed their family.”
Watching the construction of permanent barracks on bases in Iraq convinced Daniel that the real goal of the war was control. “Iraq is the center of the Middle East. If you control the center, you control the whole Middle East. You control all the profits that you get from there,” he says about the oil reserves.
Back from leave, Daniel, who was awarded eight decorations for valor, was in for some surprises. “We go back to Camp Lejeune and we get a new CO [commanding officer] who’s never been to Iraq, who doesn’t have nearly as many ribbons as I do,” says Daniel. “He goes, ‘Get prepared to go back to Iraq in January!’ This was October. We just got back. All of our jaws just dropped. He goes, ‘But go home and have fun for about three weeks.’” As Daniel recounts this announcement of a third tour of duty in the Middle East in as many years, his stutter becomes much more pronounced. “I felt like a weight just got put on my chest. I couldn’t breathe. Panic attacks. I can’t believe this is going to happen. Everybody felt the same way. A couple of people didn’t come back from leave. They decided to stay home.”
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/10/08/the-secret-letter-from-iraq/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.time.com%2Ftime%2Fworld%2Fprintout%2F0%2C8816%2C1543658%2C00.html&frame=true
And now about another up-and-coming Republican:
AP: Allen didn’t disclose stock options By SHARON THEIMER and BOB LEWIS, Associated Press WritersSun Oct 8, 7:01 PM ET
RICHMOND, Va. – For the past five years, Sen. George Allen (news, bio, voting record), has failed to tell Congress about stock options he got for his work as a director of a high-tech company. The Virginia Republican also asked the Army to help another business that gave him similar options.
Congressional rules require senators to disclose to the Senate all deferred compensation, such as stock options. The rules also urge senators to avoid taking any official action that could benefit them financially or appear to do so.
Those requirements exist so the public can police lawmakers for possible conflicts of interest, especially involving companies with government business that lawmakers can influence.
Allen’s stock options date to the period from January 1998 to January 2001 when Allen was between political jobs and had plunged into the corporate world.
An Associated Press review of Allen’s financial dealings from that era found that the senator:
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/10/08/ap-george-allen-didnt-disclose-stock-options/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.yahoo.com%2Fs%2Fap%2F20061008%2Fap_on_el_se%2Fallen_in_business%3B_ylt%3DAkUoYTE3p1hYAXxv4JMghAys0NUE%3B_ylu%3DX3oDMTA3OXIzMDMzBHNlYwM3MDM-&frame=true
More great stuff from Pat at Red State Rabble:
Monday, October 09, 2006Moderate School Board Candidate on Fiscal ConservatismThe so-called fiscal conservatives on the Kansas school board seem to be operating under a double standard. When schools need money for education, the board piously tells them to look for cost savings in their districts, but when the board wants to do something, no dollar figure is too high — just ask Connie Morris’ travel agent.
Now, moderate candidate Don Weiss, who is running against right-wing hypocrite John Bacon in the 3rd District, is asking tough questions about more board spending on one of its pet projects — charter schools. Bacon, you will remember, likes to talk up fiscal conservatism while using taxpayer money to get away from it all in a fundamentalist setting.
“The board recently gave away almost $40,000 in a series of checks for $1,995 to virtually anyone who lined up and said they wanted to start a charter school,” says Weiss. “What controls were on this money? Did it matter if two of the checks went to Alpharetta, GA? What is Kansas going to get for their money? I’d like to know.”
Voter disgust with the right-wingers on the school board cost Connie Morris her job in the primary. Voters in the 9th District who were burned once by Iris Van Meter refused to put their hands on the stove again and declined to elect her son-in-law, Brad Patzer, the drive-by candidate from the Republic of Idaho to replace her.
Moderates will have a majority on the board come January. The election of two more moderates, Don Weiss and Jack Wempe, will ensure that the board stays on track and gets some work done — such as dealing with declining test scores in some districts — over the long haul.
To do sustained work on the state’s schools, the board has to stay focused. It can’t keep popping through the rabbit hole into Wonderland every couple of years with the election of nutty right-wingers. Electing Weiss and Wempe will ensure the board keeps its feet planted firmly on the ground for years to come.
Lobbying scandal tidbits
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/01/13/k-street-project/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/21/AR2005062101632.html
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060220/scahill
(As discussed elsewhere in Left Blogistan)…
So, folks, a round of applause for Rove’s October Surprise: a nuclear North Korea.
I know it makes ME want to vote Republican. After all, they’ve done such a great job with foreign policy and all.
Josh Marshall frames the North Korea debacle very nicely, thanks.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com
***********************************
“We’ll need to wait a few more hours for confirmation. But initial signs suggest that the US picked up the seismic signature of the underground nuclear test the North Koreans are claiming to have carried out. We’ve been pretty sure for some time that the North Koreans had developed a nuclear capacity. This would not only confirm that assumption, but the decision to conduct the test will be interpreted as a sign of belligerence that will send ripples throughout the region, probably first through Japanese rearmament.
For the US this is a strategic failure of the first order.
The origins of the failure are ones anyone familiar with the last six years in this country will readily recognize: chest-thumping followed by failure followed by cover-up and denial. The same story as Iraq. Even the same story as Foley.
North Korea’s nuclear program has been a problem for US presidents going back to Reagan, and the conflict between North and South has been a key issue for US presidents going back to Truman. As recently as 1994, the US came far closer to war with North Korea than most Americans realize.
President Clinton eventually concluded a complicated and multipart agreement in which the North Koreans would suspend their production of plutonium in exchange for fuel oil, help building light water nuclear reactors (the kind that don’t help making bombs) and a vague promise of diplomatic normalization.
President Bush came to office believing that Clinton’s policy amounted to appeasement. Force and strength were the way to deal with North Korea, not a mix of force, diplomacy and aide. And with that premise, President Bush went about scuttling the 1994 agreement, using evidence that the North Koreans were pursuing uranium enrichment (another path to the bomb) as the final straw.
Remember the guiding policy of the early Bush years: Clinton did it=Bad, Bush=Not whatever Clinton did.
All diplomatic niceties aside, President Bush’s idea was that the North Koreans would respond better to threats than Clinton’s mix of carrots and sticks.
Then in the winter of 2002-3, as the US was preparing to invade Iraq, the North called Bush’s bluff. And the president folded. Abjectly, utterly, even hilariously if the consequences weren’t so grave and vast.
Threats are a potent force if you’re willing to follow through on them. But he wasn’t. The plutonium production plant, which had been shuttered since 1994, got unshuttered. And the bomb that exploded tonight was, if I understand this correctly, almost certainly the product of that plutonium uncorked almost four years ago.
So the President talked a good game, the North Koreans called his bluff and he folded. And since then, for all intents and purposes, and all the atmospherics to the contrary, he and his administration have done essentially nothing.
Indeed, from the moment of the initial cave, the White House began acting as though North Korea was already a nuclear power (something that was then not at all clear) to obscure the fact that the White House had chosen to twiddle its thumbs and look the other way as North Korea became a nuclear power. Like in Bush in Iraq and Hastert and Foley, the problem was left to smolder in cover-up and denial. Until now.
Hawks and Bush sycophants will claim that North Korea is an outlaw regime. And no one should romanticize or ignore the fact that it is one of the most repressive regimes in the world with a history of belligerence, terrorist bombing, missile proliferation and a lot else. They’ll also claim that the North Koreans were breaking the spirit if not the letter of the 1994 agreement by pursuing a covert uranium enrichment program. And that’s probably true too.
But facts are stubborn things.
The bomb-grade plutonium that was on ice from 1994 to 2002 is now actual bombs. Try as you might it is difficult to imagine a policy — any policy — which would have yielded a worse result than the one we will face Monday morning.
Talking tough is great if you can make it stick and back it up; it is always and necessarily cleaner and less compromising than sitting down and dealing with bad actors. Talking tough and then folding your cards doesn’t just show weakness it invites contempt. And that is what we have here.
The Bush-Cheney policy on North Korea was always what Fareed Zakaria once aptly called “a policy of cheap rhetoric and cheap shots.” It failed. And after it failed President Bush couldn’t come to grips with that failure and change course. He bounced irresolutely between the Powell and Cheney lines and basically ignored the whole problem hoping either that the problem would go away, that China would solve it for us and most of all that no one would notice.
Do you notice now?”
Great summary:
So the President talked a good game, the North Koreans called his bluff and he folded.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
I haven’t watched Bush’s lateset pronouncements on N.K., but I’m thinking opportunistic Rove will be conducting a major October re-direct of the nations attention from Iraq to N.K. The admin finally got their nuclear threat from a Rogue Nation. How much better can it get for them?
steve,
Indeed, but it all turns on the word ‘better.’ I think the American public has woken up to the fact that what’s ‘better for the Bush Administration’ is usually the opposite of what’s ‘better’ for the country.
This is a foreign policy failure on par with the invasion and occupation of Iraq. The Bush Administration has no foreign policy successes to its credit. Not one.
Must be Clinton’s fault N.K. is now testing nukes.
It really was a brilliant move by Rove to give the NK’s a working nuke so he could get Foley off the front page.(or is that off the back of the page?)
What was brilliant was invading a country that didn’t have nukes or a working nuclear program or WMD’s in general, getting our military bogged down in an unwinable war, while N.K. has been perfecting their missles and developing nuclear capabilities. I feel safer. How about you?Rove is just an opportunist. Who will capitalize on anything, such as 9/11.
Heckler,
This is how it goes: last week you started by feverishly insisting on conspiracy theories that had Bill Clinton inducing Rep. Mark Foley go after male Congressional pages, and by Monday Karl Rove and Dr. Strangelove are becoming the same person in your mind.
You may want to turn down the temperature in the Right Wing fever swamp, Heckler. You’re going to need all of your wits to spin down this latest, greatest failure of the Bush Administration’s foreign policy.
The world is demonstrably more dangerous, and America is demonstrably more threatened, than before George Bush took control of the Presidency. He needs to be removed from office by legal and Constitutional means.
CF
You are too damn intelligent to act so fucking stupid. You know as well as anyone that Clinton gave the NK’s everything they needed to build the bomb. Clinton gave the Chinese the guidance technology they needed to hit us with a missle.
Just what options did Bush have with the NK’s? What was he supposed to do? Talk nice to them? That’s what Clinton did, among other things and look what it got us.
But maybe we can hope for a real coalition of countries around the world when it comes to North Korea? Not like the last time when Georgie Boy charged into Iraq all by himself putting his dibs on the oil.
Maybe I am jumping ahead of myself here – we might form a coalition if Georgie doesn’t shoot off his mouth again!
So predictable, I knew it was something Clinton did nearly a decade ago that was to blame!
And George W. has us indebted past our eyeballs to China. What’s your point?
George W. wants to hand over security of our ports to Saudi Arabia – what’s your point?
George W. does not have a clue as to what he is doing and he is dragging the rest of the country down with him.
The US is not sitting in too good of a seat here – our military is stretched too thin and we are debtor nation.
Besides, do you really think China did not have nuclear capacities without us? Get real.
US corporations SOLD that technology to the Chinese – to make a quick buck. Clinton gave NK nothing to use toward Plutonium enrichment.
lucee – we did have a true coalition in the NK mess and hopefully might be able to hold it together. Russia, China, Japan, S Korea, US. Unfortunately Bush’s ‘go it alone’ approach might be poisoning that.
That’s my fear – Ben. The little emperor cannot keep his big mouth shut.
CR – I wonder how old Clinton was when China tested its first nuke? Must have been a child prodigy!
steve
The NK’s had every thing they needed to build a bomb before Bush even took office. CF know’s it and If you had a clue you would know it as well. What was Bush supposed to do, Bomb them. You leftys would have loved that.
George W. reminds me of the pipsqueak in the playground that keeps his mouth going the whole time but when it comes to actual fighting – he calls on everyone else to do his fighting for him.
The Republicans constantly accuse the Leftys as being cut and run liberals. Why would a cut and run liberal want to bomb North Korea?
You cannot have it both ways.
Ben
Come on now your smater than that. Loral Space had permission from the Clinton commerce department( I belive they moved the duty of approving such sales from the Pentagon to Commerce dept.)to sell that guidance technology to China. Supposedly to help them get some cell phone satellites into orbit.(jeez you mean they could use that same techology to guide missles?shazzam!!)
And Clinton got some strong campaign contrubutions out of the deal.
I think we should drop all the scandal-ridden Republicans into North Korea and have them set up a democracy based on their morals and greed.
That would teach the North Koreans not to mess with us.
Sorry for the change of subject, but…
Good article on the front page of the Hays Daily this weekend about teen suicide, and the need for adults to talk openly about it.
The people interviewed are my friends. One my best pal for 30 years, the other a high school classmate.
Remember our previous little dust up about teen suicide and whether it should be hushed up or talked about?
Read the article.
http://www.hdnews.net/
Of course, ya know I cant resist an easy shot.
The HDN blog stuff is at the bottom of the front page. Notice that their blogs are even MORE LAME and more vacant than meadowlarkpoop’s Salina Journal blog.
heheheh.
What is it about blogs that Harris News in general and John Montgomery in particular cant figure out?
That it is the PEOPLE’s blogs that are successful, not the ones that just tout the local line?
But then, that is completely contrary to the family of john the junior….
I agree, teen suicide is a tragic loss for us all. Our society needs to get a grip on what is happening to our young people. I’m afraid we have become a throw away society.
Heckler – Clinton had inherited an ongoing policy from Bush 1 of allowing such commercial capitalism to be practiced.
Now, another change in topic:
http://sacramento.bizjournals.com/sacramento/stories/2006/10/09/story11.html?f=et181&b=1160366400^1357327&hbx=e_vert
School hopes to capitalize on local demand for kitchen staffKitchen Academy will teach technical, practical principles of restaurant workSacramento Business Journal – October 6, 2006by Mark AndersonStaff WriterPrint this Article Email this Article Reprints RSS Feeds Most Viewed Most EmailedThe region’s restaurant boom and thinning ranks of qualified cooks have opened the door for an Illinois-based giant to open a $5 million Kitchen Academy this winter.
Career Education Corp., based in Hoffman Estates, Ill., is putting $5 million in tenant improvements into a 20,000-square-foot building on Del Paso Road, just north of Arco Arena. The college will take a quarter of the building for an operation with capacity for 450 students.
It will start with a culinary arts program in January, then in July will launch a separate baking and pastry course. Each curriculum costs $18,500 for a 30-week training program — about $700 more than the University of California’s out-of-state tuition for two semesters of classes.
It will train students to work in the growing ranks of kitchens in the Sacramento area, beset by labor shortages for at least three years.
“There are so many more restaurants. The labor pool isn’t what it used to be,” said Jim Mills, head of sales for Produce Express, a supplier to kitchens in the region. It used to be that people worked their way up to cook after a year or two in the kitchen, picking up a little training here and there, he said, but now with so many new restaurants opening, in-house training can’t keep up with demand.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Once upon a time our local Vo-Tech had a good culinary program. Unfortunately this is not an approved job market under the current aviation-oriented regime.
A sober commentary concerning N. K., its actions, and the lack of the ability to form any real response. Note the warning about Iran, potentially a much bigger problem.
http://www.time.com/time/asia/news/article/0,9754,1544026,00.html?cnn=yes
Ya, but I am so glad all the terrorists are in iraq and we are so much safer here….
/sarcasm off
Ben
Letting Loral Space sell that guidance technology to the Chinese was one of the top 2 or 3 most stupid things Clinton ever did. The Pentagon would never have approved that sale. But hey, the economy was good.
Clinton’s approach to NK-http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j222/TommyDale/300px-Great_Leader_Comrade_Kim_Jong.jpg
What would these Bush supporters do without Bill Clinton to blame for everything?
Heckler?
Last I checked you were all in favor of laisez faire capitalism correct? Loral ultimately made the decision of profits over patriotism when they sold that technology. Take it up with them?
Loral must not be a Republican contributor or these Bush lovers would not be bringing this up.
Heckler – sort of like the picture of Rumsfield shaking hands with Saddam while we were providing him with weapons to use against the Kurds and Iran.
“What would these Bush supporters do without Bill Clinton to blame for everything?”
Well, teddy kennedy, jimmy carter and barney frank are always available for bashing.
After all, IOKIYAAR
ksfrmgrrl–
Hehe, you can talk about teen age suicide all you want as long as
1. you don’t blame repressive right-wingers for anything
and
2. you don’t mention the simple fact that guns are used for most suicides.
It’s that combination of right-wing plus guns that makes them go ballistic.
But to utter some complete banality like “teen suicide is bad” is fine . . .
Well said capt.
It’s ok to talk, as long as we dont tell the truth….
Heckler–
Even assuming that Clinton helped North Korea get nukes, which he did not, why didn’t Bush do anything to stop them? It is 2006 after all. Bush took office despite losing the vote in January of 2001.
You say, “what should he have done?” I say, “stop acting like it’s impossible.”
That’s the same thing you Bush-sucks say about 9-11 as Bush sat in the classroom and stuck around for a photo-op while burning people were screaming and throwing themselves from the towers.
“What was he supposed to do?”
He was supposed to do . . . SOMETHING.
And I guess we should have known that the religious right’s relationship with the gop would come to this.
“GOP to blame for delay of second coming.”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102×2552568
hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee
Arizona REPUBLICAN congressman Colby now says he knew about Mark Foley since 2000.So let’s review the growing list of congressmen who knew and supported a child predator in Congress…..
Colby (R)Reynolds (R)Alexander(R)Hastert (R)*Tiahrt (R) ?Ryun (R) ?
*Hastert still says he did not know. Alexander and Reynolds beg to differ.
heheheheh capt.
“Even assuming that Clinton helped North Korea get nukes, which he did not, why didn’t Bush do anything to stop them?”
He did. He sent all our troops and money to iraq.
Dammit, get with the program here!
KFG
Find your Habeus Corpus yet?
Well Kansas farm girl.You liberal hippy freak.In response to your decidedly sarcastic left wing slant on the issues,Let me just say this:BILL CLINTON!!BILL CLINTON!!HA
Howdy girl.I couldn’t believe it when I was watching one of the sunday talk shows last weekend and a winger who was toein’ the party line actually stopped the show by saying it.(in your ear, with my best Sam Kennison voice:)SAY IT!!~~SAY IT!!!
Heckler,
You absolutely, positively, miss the point: the North Koreans may have had everything they needed to build a bomb–which I think is a debatable point, by the way–but they didn’t.
At least, not until Bush’s aggressive policy and refusal to take them seriously came along. Once the Bush Administration served notice that North Korea was in the ‘axis of evil,’ and demonstrated what happened to states that found their names on the list, North Korea had a new incentive to build the bomb that they had thus far used only as a bargaining chip.
Heckler, threat reduction is a viable foreign policy doctrine. The Bush Administration doesn’t seem to understand this. Was it good that the Clinton Administration made certain technologies available to China? Perhaps not, though it may have been understandable in light of certain other strategic constraints.
But is it worse that the North Koreans have now detonated a nuclear weapon? Immeasurably worse. Under Clinton, the potential threat was contained and managed, albeit imperfectly.
Under Bush, the perfect has become the enemy of the good. The United States has surrendered all the diplomatic leverage that could have dissuaded North Korea from building a nuclear weapon. We now confront a completely unmanageable situation, in which there really are no attractive strategic options.
Bush didn’t inherit a nuclearized North Korea: he helped to bring it into existence.
Iraq, North Korea, Iran: Bush is 0 for 3 on dealing effectively with the “Axis of Evil.”
Shit girl, you lose that damn habeus again?What we gonna’ do with your senile self?
CF
What is it he was supposed to do, talk nice to them? Sip champagne with them? You say he was too mean to them? WTF could he have done to stop them short of bombing them?
CF
Clinton tried the traditional UN honored method of diplomicy and what did they do? They made him a promise and then laughed at him and went about their merry way building a bomb thank you very much.
correction from earlier post:AMERICA HELD HOSTAGE:DAY 2088……..
Presidency held hostile:834 Days left.
Congress held hostile:89 Days left.
Well hackler, when we are trying to convince a sovereign state to relinquish its right to have arms necessary (in its view) for self-defense (deterrent) then negotiation might make sense. Of course, silly things like sipping champaign is typically a part of that.
Saber-rattling; letting them know that if they cannot defend themselves we will destroy them; does not seem to have been very successful.
When we pick and choose which countries can and cannot have these weapons we are automatically in a tricky situation. When we then tell countries that we will destroy them if we want to we make it worse.
“They made him a promise and then laughed at him and went about their merry way building a bomb thank you very much.”
Not true. There is zero evidence that NK made a bomb while the agreements were in force. BushDaBum abrogated them almost 6 years ago.
I guess when heckler cant admit, after 50 proven lies, that the swiftboaters are, um, truth challenged, it would be pointless to post links to the habeas corpus stuff.
Maybe if I have time later. But it seems so pointless to show him a pipe, only to have him say “that is not a pipe”.
Watch him declare victory now. heheheheheh. Come on, do your little dance….
Have you noticed, heckie only shows up when nathan does?
hmmmmm….
Ouch
If there is a congressman COLBY I owe him or her an apology.
It was Kolbe.
I am sorry for the mistake.
Another Republican congressman knew of disgraced former representative Mark Foley’s inappropriate Internet exchanges as far back as 2000 and personally confronted Foley about his communications.A spokeswoman for Rep. Jim Kolbe (R-Ariz.) confirmed yesterday that a former page showed the congressman Internet messages that had made the youth feel uncomfortable with the direction Foley (R-Fla.) was taking their e-mail relationship. Last week, when the Foley matter erupted, a Kolbe staff member suggested to the former page that he take the matter to the clerk of the House, Karen Haas, said Kolbe’s press secretary, Korenna Cline.ïMore politics newsThe revelation pushes back by at least five years the date when a member of Congress has acknowledged learning of Foley’s questionable behavior.
Heckler,
I have nothing to add to Ben Huie’s response. Save the phony “all or nothing”, “either capitulate or attack” arguments for someone who isn’t connected to the facts. The very fact that North Korea had not built a bomb until now is proof that your ‘either / or’ defense of Bush is phony and meritless.
What’s really revealing, however, is that North Korea “laughing at us” has you so incensed and your masculinity so threatened. Honestly. If they don’t have a bomb, let ‘em laugh all they want. Who cares?
If this attitude is what’s driving U.S. foreign policy, it’s no wonder disaster is breaking out all over the globe.
This happened on Bush’s watch. He’s the President. HE is responsible.
From link posted abobe:
“North Korea’s nuclear program has been a problem for US presidents going back to Reagan, and the conflict between North and South has been a key issue for US presidents going back to Truman. As recently as 1994, the US came far closer to war with North Korea than most Americans realize.
President Clinton eventually concluded a complicated and multipart agreement in which the North Koreans would suspend their production of plutonium in exchange for fuel oil, help building light water nuclear reactors (the kind that don’t help making bombs) and a vague promise of diplomatic normalization.
President Bush came to office believing that Clinton’s policy amounted to appeasement. Force and strength were the way to deal with North Korea, not a mix of force, diplomacy and aide. And with that premise, President Bush went about scuttling the 1994 agreement, using evidence that the North Koreans were pursuing uranium enrichment (another path to the bomb) as the final straw.
Remember the guiding policy of the early Bush years: Clinton did it=Bad, Bush=Not whatever Clinton did.”
Josh Marshall frames the North Korea debacle very nicely, thanks.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com
BEN……HACKLER?Shitpiss baby that curr-acked me up!
Heckler,If the American people really want to engage NK with a military solution let’s get the draft going.Do you expect to rotate troops in from Iraq after 2 and 3 tours of duty. Add to that a 1 dollar a gallon gas tax to pay for it. I don’t think the Chinese are going to loan us money to invade a next door neighbor.
DEFINITIVE PROOF, HECKLER’S BLAME CLINTON DEFENSE FULL OF SH*T
October 9, 2006BY ASSOCIATED PRESS
North Korea announced Monday that it had tested an atomic weapon, a claim that if true would make it the latest member of the elite club of nuclear powers.
HOW MANY BOMBS: Estimates of the amount of radioactive material the North possesses vary widely, enough for possibly between four and 13 weapons, and are unverifiable.
• • •HISTORY: North Korea is believed to have been accumulating plutonium for a bomb since the mid-1980s. It froze the program in 1994 as part of an agreement with the United States. Since the breakdown of that agreement in late 2002, North Korea is believed to have ramped up production.
Some experts estimate that at least 80 percent of the country’s stockpile of 44 to 116 pounds of refined plutonium was processed since the end of the freeze in 2002.
Without another agreement, North Korea is forecast to boost its stockpile to 160 pounds by 2008 — enough to build between eight and 17 bombs.
• • •Source: Washington-based Institute for Science and International Security.
80 PERCENT OF THE PLUTONIUM FOR NUKES PRODUCED SINCE BUSH F*CKED UP THE CLINTON AGREEMENT WITH NORTH KOREA IN 2002.
What part of WORST. PRESIDENT. EVER. do you not get, Heckler?
And, since the agreement was rendered null and void by BushDaBum, NK was under no obligation to relinquish its rights as a sovereign state. Those rights include “keep and bear arms”
The universe is only 10,000 years old. America is a Christian country. We love democracy unless Al Gore or Hugo Chavez gets elected. Tax cuts help balance the budget. Iraq’s oil will pay for its reconstruction. We will be greeted as liberators. Nothing hurts our economy more than welfare, social security and medicare. Oh, and unions too.
And if North Korea detonates a nuke, it’s all Clinton’s fault.
We know a large explosion occurred in North Korea, but do we know for certain that it was a nuclear event?
gster, good comment; the purported size of the explosion could have been the result of conventional explosives. It’s the claim of the NK gov’t. that is troublesome in and of itself. Either way, it isn’t anything good.
I infer from your comment that there has not been any increase in atmospheric radiation reported. While far from an expert, if the explosion was of nuclear origin, and was conducted far underground, it seems to me that any radiation escape would take a while to occur and be monitored. At this point, I’ll accept the NK claim, hoping to be disabused of the truth thereof.
Congrats to the Bush regime for their construction of a concentration camp designed to hold tens of thousands of “enemy combatants”.
http://www.alternet.org/rights/42458/
He’s already helped relocate thousands of African-Americans out of New Orleans to give prime real estate to rich, white developers. Now we’ll have a concentration/torture camp where we can hold anyone who criticizes this criminal empire. All built with taxpayer dollars by the war profiteering company Halliburton.
And MORE things you have to believe to be repugnican:
Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you’re a conservative radio host. Then it’s an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.
Government should relax regulation of Big Business and Big Money but crack down on individuals who use marijuana to relieve the pain of illness.
‘Standing Tall for America’ means firing your workers and moving their jobs to India.
A woman can’t be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.
Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.
The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches while slashing veterans benefits and combat pay.
Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins unless you someday run for governor of California as a Republican.
If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won’t have sex.
A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our long-time allies, then demand their cooperation and money.
HMOs and insurance companies have the interest of the public at heart.
Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health care to all Americans is socialism.
Global warming and tobacco’s link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.
Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush’s daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him and a bad guy when Bush needed a “we can’t find Bin Laden” diversion.
A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy.
Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.
The public has a right to know about Hillary’s cattle trades, but George Bush’s driving record is none of our business.
What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the 80s is irrelevant.
Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.
KFG,
Thanks for the link to the Hays Daily article.
Though it can’t always be controlled, I am against suicidal teens having access to firearms. Guns deliver lethal outcomes very quickly and most often a second chance is not available.
The article tells a tragic story that is too frequently told.
KFG,Spouse and I will head your way weekend after next. Will email you.
War is the easiest way to avoid dealing with difficult problems in a thoughtful manner.
For instance, we, like the rest of the developed nations, have a graying population. Unless we sell the nation to foreigners, Americans, on average, are going to have to work until they’re 75 to 80. “Shoot, I don’t WANT TO WORK that long.”
Figure out something that you can enjoy doing, and being productive, that contributes to our national economy. It can be charitable, or for-profit, but don’t expect to sit back and receive benefits. It can be living with your children and keeping house and helping your grandchildren to learn.
There are increasing numbers of people who are extending their productive years. Join them. America cannot afford to have Americans retiring at age 62-65, and living to 80-85.
Stop stealing other nations’ oil. America has plentious energy reserves. Sure, they’re more expensive to initially research and develop than cheap oil, but they exist, and can be tapped. Do away with the oiligarchy, and Arab terrorism will disappear. Think of having your own windmill and solar cells, with backup at-home natural gas generators. Expensive massive electricity-grid costs. Gone. Inefficient AC-generators (necessary for long-distance electricity generation because DC dissipates too much voltage over distances). Gone.
Eat a new diet. Rich in vegetables and fruits. Without industrial byproduct trans fats. It’s possible in Kansas. With greenhouses heated by renewable energy and some natural gas in the cold months, Kansas could produce a lot of healthful food.
Exercise more. Trade medical insurance for HEALTH benefits at your company: onsite exercise facilities, health-club vouchers, extra pay for riding a bike to work and not smoking.
Get educated. Demand free tuition for anybody over age 30 to take WSU and vo-tech courses. Demand public K-12 reinvention, or else vouchers for children to attend private-school alternatives. For public schools, demand higher salaries for math and science teachers, and arguably for art and music teachers as well, than for social studies and language arts teachers. Stimulate right-brain activity in young people. Demand smaller classes. Put up the money. Education can be either a capital investment, or an overhead cost. It can only work as the former.
Reposting Capn America’s documentary announcement from the other day:
ROBERT GREENWALD DOCUMENTARY “IRAQ FOR SALE” TO BE SHOWN FREE AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC IN WICHITA
You probably remember a few of Robert Greenwald’s other movies such as “Outfoxed” and “WalMart: The High Cost of Low Price.” In “Iraq for Sale,” Robert takes you inside the lives of soldiers, truck drivers, widows and children who have been changed forever as a result of profiteering in the reconstruction of Iraq. The film uncovers the connections between private corporations making a killing in Iraq and the decision makers who let it happen.
http://www.dfalink.com/search_iraqforsale.php
TUESDAY Oct 10 at The Central Library Auditorium, 3rd floor, 7:30 pm
THURSDAY Oct 12 at the Rockwell Library on 9th (between Oliver and Woodlawn), 7:30 pm
Come early and enjoy the “previews.”
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 06, 2006 at 10:12 AM
Rockwell Branch is on 9th Steet (south side of the street) between Edgemoor and Woodlawn. Thought reposting was a good idea given that the showings are this week.
Thank you, Steven.
You the man . . .
BTW, as much as I hate e-mails that say “send this to everybody you know,” PLEASE, send this to everybody you know.
Help get the word out . . .
You’re welcome Capn. Will send it out to those poor people in my address book.
Hey, I got my Morrison sign today. Hoping to soon have a real attorney in the KS AG office!
FUNNY
So, my friend has on his wall pictures of all the great fighters:
Chuck Norris, Steven Segal, Clint Eastwood, the fall guy, Rambo…
I took them all down and replaced them with pictures of Justin Timberlake showing his abs, David Hasslehoff in a speedo, Michael Bolton, and a few male Body builders…
LOL
I can’t wait to see his face when he realizes it.
Um Nathan? Funny prank but uh….well don’t take this wrong but….where did you get those posters? Are they uh……are they that available in Iraq?
Steven and Capn, thanks for the heads up I will try to make one of those showings.
Nathan, it is great to see you’re keeping a sense of humor.Hang in there.
JR
I simply searched google pictures for them, I didn’t want to waste the ones I brought with me…
Nathan–
I gotta hand it to ya, that is really funny!
Justin Timberlake . . .hysterical.
You should take his picture when he first sees it.
Quote of the Day:
“WE ARE WOLVES — The [people] are a flock of sheep, and we are their wolves. And you know what happens when the wolves get hold of the flock? … we have the power whenever we like to create disorders or to restore order … There is another reason also why they will close their eyes: for we shall keep promising them to give back all the liberties we have taken away as soon as we have quelled the enemies of peace and tamed all parties ….. It is not worthwhile to say anything about how long a time they will be kept waiting for this return of their liberties ….” [Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, Protocol #11, The Totalitarian State;
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!
So how’s the revolution going Ian?
Candidate forum will be held at the First Unitarian Universalist Church -Oct 10th -1501 N Fairmount Wichita Ks.
Invited candidates include Sedgwick County races for Kansas House of Representatives, 4th District US House of Representatives, Kansas Governor, Attorney General, and Commissioner of Insurance.
The forum will be moderated. Each candidate will be encouraged to make a brief statement at the beginning of the forum. After opening remarks, spectators will be asked to submit brief written questions, which will be read to the candidates, or their representatives, by the moderator.
Several Wichita organizations are sponsoring the forum:
Kansas Equality Coalition of Wichita and Sedgwick CountySouth Central Kansas Chapter of the ACLUPeace and Social Justice Center of South Central KansasNOW – National Organization for Women, Wichita ChapterProKanDo PAC
The forum is scheduled for 7pm to 8:30pm, with an informal social period til 9:00pm. Light snacks will be served at the conclusion of the forum, and members of the public will have an opportunity to meet candidates and elected officials running for election
It is a shame that we don’t have real political alternatives here in America. I for one, am sick of filthy traitor scum like shrub and clinton! In any event, the rotten and filthy concept of multiracial democracy is soo coming to an end, one way or another! :)
Poll gain for Belgium’s far rightVlaams Belang supporters celebrated their best ever resultA far-right party in Belgium’s northern Flanders region has made sweeping gains in local elections, while the country’s governing party suffered badly.The anti-immigrant Vlaams Belang (Flemish Interest) party won about 20% of the vote in Dutch-speaking Flanders.
However it was knocked from first to second place in its traditional heartland – the city of Antwerp.
In the past other parties have formed coalitions to keep Vlaams Belang out of power, even where it has come first.
They are expected to try to do the same again.
Protest vote
Vlaams Belang campaigns on a platform of independence for Flanders, the richer Dutch-speaking part of Belgium, and an anti-immigration integrationist stance towards minorities.
But it is perhaps primarily a place for the protest vote, for people to register their dissatisfaction with the long-standing political status quo, says the BBC’s Jonny Dymond in Brussels.
Guy Verhofstadt acknowledged the scale of his party’s defeat
The status quo seems to be unpopular at the moment, he adds, with the far right making what it calls “spectacular” gains….http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6032331.stm
Viva La Raza Blanco!!