BREAKING NEWS (except in Kansas Press): Snoop Dog apparently makes phone calls too! THREE voters now report “Snoop Dog” phone calls:
* A Pottawatomie County voter reports receiving two phone calls, with a different female voice each time. “Last week’s voice was a rather angry young woman, and today’s was a smooth, professional female voice.”
* A call was received in Shawnee County: “It’s a woman’s voice referring to ‘Snoop Dog Kline.’ There was no ‘paid for’ in the recording.”
* A Sedgwick County resident reports: “The first part of the message is cut off as if the recording began to play immediately and did not wait for the tone. It was a woman’s voice that referenced Kline’s ‘prying’ into medical records. I checked my caller ID and it said ‘”Out of Area.’”
See info about the FOUR known Snoop Dog mailings, I, II, III, and IV. Is there a “missing” 5th mailing?
The Kansas press ignores how this “non-profit,” Kansans for Consumer Privacy, and Dr. Tiller are buying Paul Morrison to be their Attorney General. Why is the Kansas press afraid of telling the truth to the public? Why won’t the Kansas press protect young girls from sexual predators?
Kansans for Consumer Privacy shares the same address as Dr. Tiller ProKanDo PAC.
Resistance to deadlines for Iraq is weakeningSome in military doubt insurgents would gain. Baghdad needs to be pushed, officials say.By Julian E. Barnes and Doyle McManus, Times Staff Writers9:54 PM PST, October 30, 2006
WASHINGTON — — Growing numbers of American military officers have begun to privately question a key tenet of U.S. strategy in Iraq — that setting a hard deadline for troop reductions would strengthen the insurgency and undermine efforts to create a stable state.
The Iraqi government’s refusal to take certain measures to reduce sectarian tensions between Sunni Arabs and the nation’s Shiite Muslim majority has led these officers to conclude that Iraqis will not make difficult decisions unless they are pushed. Therefore, they say, the advantages of deadlines may outweigh the drawbacks.
“Deadlines could help ensure that the Iraqi leaders recognize the imperative of coming to grips with the tough decisions they’ve got to make for there to be progress in the political arena,” said a senior Army officer who has served in Iraq. He asked that his name not be used because he did not want to publicly disagree with the stated policy of the president.
Former Pentagon official Kurt Campbell said more officers are calling for deadlines after concluding that the indefinite presence of U.S. forces enables the Shiite-run Iraqi government to avoid making compromises.
“There is a new belief that the biggest problem that we face is that our forces are the sand in the gears creating problems,” said Campbell, coauthor of a book on national security policy. “We are making things worse by giving the Iraqis a false sense of security at the governing level.”
For months, the Bush administration has been politely prodding the Iraqis on political and security reforms including the sharing of oil revenue, a crackdown on Shiite militias and constitutional changes. The discussions so far have yielded little, prompting experts to question whether the Iraqi government will ever compromise if there is no penalty for failing to make hard choices.
Over the last week, Bush administration officials have spoken about possible timetables for progress in Iraq, but softened their suggestions after talks with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki.
Although top administration officials are still steering clear of discussing the timing of American troop withdrawals, the officers’ comments come alongside public statements by prominent Republicans who have begun talking about the need to establish a date that the U.S. will begin to draw down, whether or not the Iraqi government takes steps toward political compromise.
President Bush and other administration opponents of hard deadlines have argued that telegraphing troop departures would help the insurgents.
Once the U.S. sets a withdrawal date, the Sunni-led guerrillas know how long they must hang on before American troops are gone, the administration has argued.
Opponents of timetables also fear that small drawdowns will unleash public demand for more dramatic withdrawals, allowing violence fomented by Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias to erode whatever political advances have been made.
Military officials generally have agreed with the civilian leadership that a deadline would strengthen insurgent and militia groups. But the failure of the Iraqi government to move forward on key political and security measures has left senior military leaders frustrated.
Although U.S. military leaders remain wary of the consequences of imposing deadlines, increasingly officers say they are starting to look more attractive. The shift in opinion is a sign that gridlock in the Iraqi government is seen as a greater threat to achieving stability in Iraq than the insurgency itself.
John Batiste, a retired major general who commanded a division in Iraq and has been critical of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, said that setting a date for a drawdown of combat brigades must be considered. Before the deadline, Batiste said, the U.S. also needs to step up its effort to advise and train the Iraqi military and police.
“Holding the Iraqi government accountable is important, and that has everything to do with setting expectations and timelines,” Batiste said. “It also has everything to do with doing all we can to ensure they are capable completing the task they are trying to do.”
Some officers who have served in Iraq believe that much of the Iraqi government is not functioning effectively. Finding ways to force the sectarian factions to put aside their differences and focus on improving security and basic services must be the top priority in Iraq, these officers say. Without government reform, the Iraqi security forces are unlikely to ever be strong enough to take on the insurgency or the sectarian militias.
“It’s basic counterinsurgency,” said a military officer who has served in Baghdad and did not want to publicly disagree with the president’s stated policy. “You have to have a trusted, capable government.”
Some in the military argue that publicizing a timetable for reducing forces is far less damaging to a counterinsurgency campaign than the administration has suggested.
Many officers, particularly those who adhere to the military philosophy of former Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, a retired Army general who served as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, believe that deadlines are necessary to avoid getting mired in an endless war fueled by enmity between Iraq’s long-subjugated Shiite population and the Sunni Arabs who ran the government under toppled leader Saddam Hussein.
“The Powell Doctrine is all about overwhelming numbers of troops with specific missions, with specified end-states, for specified durations with — go figure — an exit strategy,” said the officer who has served in Baghdad. “To not mention this stuff is actually counter to the contemporary military mind-set.”
Although Democrats like Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan, the ranking minority member of the Armed Services Committee, have long argued that a deadline is the best way to move development of the Iraqi security force forward, opponents of the administration are no longer the only ones making the argument.
A number of Republicans now have either explicitly endorsed timelines for troop drawdowns or voiced support for considering a strategy shift. Among them are Rep. Christopher Shays of Connecticut, Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania and Richard L. Armitage, Powell’s former top deputy at the State Department.
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Sen. John W. Warner, the Republican chair of the Armed Services Committee, has called for a new approach if the security situation does not improve.
“The key to this thing is impressing upon that government that they’ve got to come to grips with what is causing this increase in violence and killing both Iraqis and our own armed forces,” Warner said this month on Fox News.
Without a deadline, Maliki will not tackle the difficult problem of bridging Sunni and Shiite political disagreements, said Michael Rubin, a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and a former Coalition Provisional Authority official.
“Maliki will not hit the benchmarks, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t give them,” said Rubin, who does not favor troop withdrawals as a penalty. “Iraqis approach deadlines by doing nothing until two days before, and then locking themselves in smoke-filled rooms and only then do they … try to hash out a solution.”
Officially, administration officials remain opposed to discussing deadlines.
Nevertheless, with the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad drafting a series of benchmarks for the Maliki government, there were signs last week that the administration had eased its opposition to timetables and might take a tougher stance with the Iraqi government.
Former Pentagon official Campbell said that military officers would not be discussing their change of heart over timetables if administration officials had not signaled a new willingness to shift positions.
“Even though there are deep reservoirs of unhappiness in the military about certain aspects of administration policy, active-duty guys are very reluctant to publicly disagree with the leadership,” he said. “But the signals are clear from the administration that it is acceptable to talk about timetables. They are taking their cues from their civilian masters.”*************************************Gee, it’s really nice that BushCo has belatedly admitted, sub rosa, that the Dems are right.
The upcoming Democratic majority-win in the House isn’t perfect. It’s analogous to, if you’ve ingested poison, and go to a hospital and are given an antidote. The antidote alone would never be taken, because it has its own toxic properties. Given after the poison, it may incur side effects. But if it saves your life, you’re going to be thankful. Side effects are better than dying.
It was once argued–I saw this in the LA Times–that most Americans preferred a president of one party and a congress of the other party, i.e. a means of assuring checks and balances. It creates moderation, and prevents excesses. It sounds sensible.
ProKanDo gives $68,000 to Kansans for Consumer Privacy BUT Kansas Press will go nuts attacking Kline over $1.5 million from Republican State Leadership Committee, after the press ignored FOUR mailings and TWO phone calls by Tiller’s group to Kansas voters.
“Why is the Kansas press afraid of telling the truth to the public? Why won’t the Kansas press protect young girls from sexual predators?”
KSM’s rhetoric is wildly out of control. Why can’t Kansans be protected from his histrionics? His truth impairedness effects the quality of life of all WEblog readers.
Yeah, Steven.Meadowpoop has been downright hilarious lately.When it should be worried about the trashing of the constitution, lobbyists owning the congress, our brave troops stuck in the middle of a civil war that GW set off,etc, etc.With ALL THIS going on,what’s Meadowpoop’s BIG STORY?(like KFG says, wait for it….)
That’s right!!SNOOP DOG MAKES PHONE CALLS!!!
Oh my God. It is the end of democracy as we know it when Snoop Dog gets political.
Doug, did ya’ notice the last line of the article?If she gets elected, she’s getting a new car, ain’t that special?Maybe she will go to Disneyland too.
How convenient that you forget. CapnAmerican (under a different nic) made a bet with you that we would be out of Iraq by October, 2006. You bet $50 on it. Obviously, you lose. Contact CapnAmerica. I am sure he can provide you documentation.
I may be wrong, but, aren’t the records that Philll wants to get redacted so that personal information can’t be seen? Then they wouldn’t be personal records at all, just records of an anonymous person.Somebody set me straight.
hotlick, I think what has most people upset is his denying his true motives for this unprecedented invasion of privacy.His witch hunt is fueled by religious fervor, rather than concern for actual human rights.
On the abortion clinic records, it is my understanding that having them redacted was a condition of the court who allowed him to have them. I also understand that he has never seen any of the records yet. If the latter is true, how does it square with his claims that the inquisitional records search has resulted in arrests in KS. How could he possibly know — unless he has powers of clarivoyance?
Tracy, to me, even worse than a motivation of religious fervor, is that I think the search has been undertaken as political payback to Tiller, who supported his opponent in the 2002 election; when an unknown nobody, I can’t even remember the guy’s name, nearly beat Kline. Tiller’s PAC gave the opponent something like 400K dollars.
I trusted that the developers would stick to the plan and use standard professional methods for managing the project and bringing in sponsors and events. So far, no sponsors – no naming sponsor – no events. I am also concerned about the so called “unanticipated” expenses such as access to Kellogg which was discussed at the preliminary public hearings. Parking issues are also significant. Many people will walk – others cannot or are afraid to (i.e. groups of older women who attend events together). Counting on private parking places without having contracts with the private owners is silly. Private owners are going to charge. Those who are paying for the arena, which was supposed to include a parking garage expect the parking they voted for to be there and free since they are paying for it through their tax money. The ESS payment issue is ridiculous. Undervaluing both the building/improvements and the services it performs for the community makes no sense. Paying multiple times what a property could be sold for to another buyer based on an income stream that isn’t there is also silly. Even if it is proven not to be, the whole project is beginning to look and smell like a good old boy boon doggle. The boy scouts could have done better. At least they would have been prepared.
“Please deliver this message. This city has suffered a lot. These are poor people. We want to reach our voice to the world.”HAIDAR SAID, a police officer, on bombings in Baghdad that killed 46 people.
Tracy,Kline has never admitted that, and never will, but it sure looks that way to me.
Also convenient for Kline is that the action also fits well with his religious agenda and the positions of his base. It was a win-win-win action for Kline. Except that some voters are queasy about the precedent those actions set. I am betting that privately Phill is regretting his over-reach at this time.
Who likes what Tiller does? But does he do medically necessary abortions? I would assume so, but I don’t have any first hand knowledge. I can’t see how Tiller would risk his ability to practice medicine by doing illegal abortions or not reporting abuse of underage girls. Such positions strain Kline’s credibility to the breaking point.
As I have said repeatedly, this is not a race between Tiller and Kline — despite how much Meadowlurk and Kline would rather we believe that is.
MIAMI HERALD:Broward Co., FL: Votes for Democrats are registering for Republicans.
Several South Florida voters say the choices they touched on the electronic screens were not the ones that appeared on the review screen — the final voting step. Election officials say they aren’t aware of any serious voting issues. But in Broward County, for example, they don’t know how widespread the machine problems are because there’s no process for poll workers to quickly report minor issues and no central database of machine problems.
Debra A. Reed voted with her boss on Wednesday at African-American Research Library and Cultural Center near Fort Lauderdale. Her vote went smoothly, but boss Gary Rudolf called her over to look at what was happening on his machine. He touched the screen for gubernatorial candidate Jim Davis, a Democrat, but the review screen repeatedly registered the Republican, Charlie Crist.continued……
In fairness Ben, the poll you cite was not a scientific one. Can you see JWink voting 100 times “no” and Joe Williams voting 1001 times “yes”? I can see both things happening.
So then, it is true that the “personal” records are not personal. If one medical record looks like another because no names/addresses are used, is somebody lieing by calling them personal medical records? Isn’t that a way to frame the debate dishonestly? I don’t know Phillll’s true motives, we can only guess, but that doesn’t make lieing about the debate OK.
Steve – You are correct in that it is not scientific. However you can only vote once from an address. Also, the audience tends to be pro-arena.
We have had about a dozen votes on this issue during my time here. All but one resulted in a NO vote; often overwhelmingly. This one squeeked by. I’d like to see if the voters would affirm that choice.
Now…back to real news and thinking people–which does not include the current administration.
The U.S. hasn’t set deadlines for the Iraqis because they fear that doing so would enable the insurgents and cause more instability? Yeah, and when has the U.S. (admin) yet been right?
Forcing Democracy on a country whose people don’t have a clue what democracy is and only understand a dictatorship, is an effort in futility. Thanks to our invasion, the country of Iraq is pretty much eating itself.
It certainly appears that the new government leaders of Iraq are a bunch of wimps. But that’s what we get for what we’ve done to that country…and continue to do.
Rumsfeld led us into a battle with no plan, expecting capitulation by flower-throwing people to do our bidding and disregarding anything told to them by those who had a clue what might happen…and did.
And you think we should listen to this bunch of mindless idiots?
hey Steven, Quick not about the survey, you can only vote once per IP address/computer… you cant just sit at your computer all night voting.
Now, doesn’t mean i cant vote at work and at home. you are correct, its not a scientific one. But what it does show is that there is discontent toward the entire project and it should be reviewed.
IT SHOULD be enough for the news media to take a serious look and really investigate the backdoor dealings of the county, city and WDDC and we should have a serious debate about recalling the issue, or at least delaying it until someone can be appointed to run this correctly and stop wasting money and time.
Do the Dems have a plan for stabilizing Iraq? This may be it:*********************************************http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-odom31oct31,0,6123563.story?coll=la-opinion-centerHow to cut and runWe could lead the Mideast to peace, but only if we stop refusing to do the right thingBy William E. Odom, Lt. Gen. WILLIAM E. ODOM (Ret.) is a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and a professor at Yale University.October 31, 2006
THE UNITED STATES upset the regional balance in the Middle East when it invaded Iraq. Restoring it requires bold initiatives, but “cutting and running” must precede them all. Only a complete withdrawal of all U.S. troops — within six months and with no preconditions — can break the paralysis that now enfeebles our diplomacy. And the greatest obstacles to cutting and running are the psychological inhibitions of our leaders and the public.
Our leaders do not act because their reputations are at stake. The public does not force them to act because it is blinded by the president’s conjured set of illusions: that we are reducing terrorism by fighting in Iraq; creating democracy there; preventing the spread of nuclear weapons; making Israel more secure; not allowing our fallen soldiers to have died in vain; and others.
But reality can no longer be avoided. It is beyond U.S. power to prevent bloody sectarian violence in Iraq, the growing influence of Iran throughout the region, the probable spread of Sunni-Shiite strife to neighboring Arab states, the eventual rise to power of the anti-American cleric Muqtada Sadr or some other anti-American leader in Baghdad, and the spread of instability beyond Iraq. All of these things and more became unavoidable the day that U.S. forces invaded.
These realities get worse every day that our forces remain in Iraq. They can’t be wished away by clever diplomacy or by leaving our forces in Iraq for several more years.
The administration could recognize that a rapid withdrawal is the only way to overcome our strategic paralysis, though that appears unlikely, notwithstanding election-eve changes in White House rhetoric. Congress could force a stock-taking. Failing this, the public will sooner or later see through all of the White House’s double talk and compel a radical policy change. The price for delay, however, will be more lives lost in vain — the only thing worse than the lives already lost in vain.
Some lawmakers are ready to change course but are puzzled as to how to leave Iraq. The answer is four major initiatives to provide regional stability and calm in Iraq. They will leave the U.S. less influential in the region. But it will be the best deal we can get.
First, the U.S. must concede that it has botched things, cannot stabilize the region alone and must let others have a say in what’s next. As U.S. forces begin to withdraw, Washington must invite its European allies, as well as Japan, China and India, to make their own proposals for dealing with the aftermath. Russia can be ignored because it will play a spoiler role in any case.
Rapid troop withdrawal and abandoning unilateralism will have a sobering effect on all interested parties. Al Qaeda will celebrate but find that its only current allies, Iraqi Baathists and Sunnis, no longer need or want it. Iran will crow but soon begin to worry that its Kurdish minority may want to join Iraqi Kurdistan and that Iraqi Baathists might make a surprising comeback.
Although European leaders will probably try to take the lead in designing a new strategy for Iraq, they will not be able to implement it. This is because they will not allow any single European state to lead, the handicap they faced in trying to cope with Yugoslavia’s breakup in the 1990s. Nor will Japan, China or India be acceptable as a new coalition leader. The U.S. could end up as the leader of a new strategic coalition — but only if most other states recognize this fact and invite it to do so.
The second initiative is to create a diplomatic forum for Iraq’s neighbors. Iran, of course, must be included. Washington should offer to convene the forum but be prepared to step aside if other members insist.
Third, the U.S. must informally cooperate with Iran in areas of shared interests. Nothing else could so improve our position in the Middle East. The price for success will include dropping U.S. resistance to Iran’s nuclear weapons program. This will be as distasteful for U.S. leaders as cutting and running, but it is no less essential. That’s because we do share vital common interests with Iran. We both want to defeat Al Qaeda and the Taliban (Iran hates both). We both want stability in Iraq (Iran will have influence over the Shiite Iraqi south regardless of what we do, but neither Washington nor Tehran want chaos). And we can help each other when it comes to oil: Iran needs our technology to produce more oil, and we simply need more oil.
Accepting Iran’s nuclear weapons is a small price to pay for the likely benefits. Moreover, its nuclear program will proceed whether we like it or not. Accepting it might well soften Iran’s support for Hezbollah, and it will definitely undercut Russia’s pernicious influence with Tehran.
Fourth, real progress must be made on the Palestinian issue as a foundation for Middle East peace. The invasion of Iraq and the U.S. tilt toward Israel have dangerously reduced Washington’s power to broker peace or to guarantee Israel’s security. We now need Europe’s help. And good relations with Iran would help dramatically.
No strategy can succeed without these components. We must cut and run tactically in order to succeed strategically. The United States needs to restore its reputation so that its capacity to lead constructively will cost us less.
“you cant just sit at your computer all night voting.
I did not know that Tony, thanks for correcting me. It is hard to see how over-voting would be much of a problem with the survey. And you’re right, it makes the results that much more interesting.
“So then, it is true that the “personal” records are not personal. If one medical record looks like another because no names/addresses are used, is somebody lieing by calling them personal medical records? Isn’t that a way to frame the debate dishonestly? I don’t know Phillll’s true motives, we can only guess, but that doesn’t make lieing about the debate OK.”
Let’s go one step even further, Mr. Hotlick. If Kline has no way to tie a record to a patient, how could they ever be useful in prosecuting any crimes he might discover??? This scenario would be like banks being required to blank out the faces of any bank robbers they record holding up their establishments. Makes no sense.
My view is that the inquisition of records is not about “crimes”. It is retaliation against Tiller and a hope to have a chilling effect on patients using Tiller’s services. An inquisition in the absence of probable cause. A political agenda that my tax dollars (and yours, too, Hotlick) are paying for. Not a thing that I want to see continued, and thus my advance vote against Kline.
You are really parsing words on “personal” records. The whole idea that someone could get my records regardless of the degree redaction is the first step down a slippery slope that I don’t wish to see. I voted accordingly and I hope reasonable others will as well.
Great points Steven.And I do believe this is like the KS science standards, i.e, this is a phony “hot button” issue that covers up the real agenda of the RR.
U.S. obeys order to abandon checkpointsSINAN SALAHEDDINAssociated PressBAGHDAD, Iraq – U.S. troops on Tuesday abandoned checkpoints around the Shiite militia stronghold of Sadr City on orders from Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, the latest in a series of moves by the Iraqi leader to assert his authority with the U.S. administration.
The U.S. military announced the deaths of two soldiers in fighting in the Baghdad area on Monday, one from small arms fire, the other from a roadside bomb. Those brought the number of troops killed in Iraq this month to 103.
U.S. forces disappeared from the checkpoints within hours of the order to remove the around-the-clock barriers by 5:00 p.m. (1400 GMT), setting off celebrations among civilians and armed men gathered on the edge of the sprawling slum that is under the control of the Mahdi Army militia run by radical anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
Iraqi troops loaded coils of barbed wire and red traffic cones onto pickup trucks, while small groups of men and children danced in circles chanting slogans praising al-Sadr, who earlier Tuesday had ordered the area closed to the Iraqi government until U.S. troops lifted what he called their “siege” of the neighborhood.
Maybe they will next order us to leave their country entirely.
Medical records, even “redacted”, can be tied to a patient. Height, weight, age, gender, etc. With some work someone could tie them together. That is why the federal government passed HIPPA.
Ben,It is hard for me to see how something like this could be very easy or practical. Tiller’s patients come from all over the U.S., and maybe even from foreign countries, due to him being one of the few physicians who does late term abortions. It would seem like such a matching effort would be, literally, like looking for a needle in a haystack.
But Ben, I think the more interesting point from your post, is the question: Has Kline been allowed to violate HIPPA? Unfortunately I don’t know as much as I should about that law. And, wouldn’t a Federal law take precedent over a state ruling?
RAY, That is great news.Now if we could just get them to support embryonic stem cell research, they might actually seem like logical reasonable people.
Are people who support late term abortion reasonable people?When I am King, there will only be 3 months to have an abortion. After that, health of the mother only. No Mental health “I won’t be able to fit into my prom dress and that will make me a mental case” type exceptions.
Now you are arguing a whole different issue. But, I figured you were doing that anyway.
There are restrictions on late term abortion. I expect there will be more as time passes.
If my daughter’s or my wife’s life was in danger because of a pregnancy, while I would not like the idea of an abortion, I would prefer that outcome over their death. I don’t know the figures on the frequency of potentially fatal pregnancies, but I am guessing it would be very rare condition.
I don’t want to be a King, nor do I want to put myself up as the final arbiter of what other people should do with their lives. Since there will never be a chance that I will get pregnant, it would seem especially arrogant of me to foist my views of abortion onto other people. I think there is now, and there will be more in the future, an awakening amongst the populace as to this problem that the Republicans have.
The catholic church has recently stated that their theologians have found data to suggest that unbaptized babies will be admitted into heaven, rather than the now-defunct concept of “limbo.”
Therefore, let Tiller and his ilk, and the mothers that choose this route contend with God, not you acting as an extension of him. I’m sure God would appreciate people not attempting to apply his authority without his permission.
My wife is currently pregnant. I’m pro-choice, but I’m not scheduling an appointment with Tiller. I’m CHOOSING to have a child.
I fear a society where the Christian Right’s choice is the only choice.
An except:”WASHINGTON – President Bush is expected to make a last-minute trip to Kansas this weekend to help boost the re-election hopes of Republican Rep. Jim Ryun, according to state GOP officials.
“An e-mail message sent Monday from the Kansas Republican Party to GOP candidates around the state said Bush would lead a rally for Ryun on Sunday in Topeka. The message, obtained by The Associated Press, said the White House wants as many GOP candidates as possible on stage with the president.”
Is it not an incredibly weird year when Republican candidates in Kansas have to be told they need to be on stage with a Republican president? This is so very strange.
Kerry’s statement is amazing; truly amazing. However, while Limbaugh’s statement (stupid and cruel as it was) got the full treatment here and elsewhere in the media, Kerry’s (the same Kerry that voted FOR regime change in Iraq, BTW) is ignored. Gosh – why is that?
And Tracy, you say it’s out of context. Go ahead, supply a context. Try to find one where that statement isn’t every bit as insulting and condescending as it sounds. I’ll wait.
I thought Kerry’s reference to study or get stuck in Iraq was to BUSH, not the soldiers. After all, if Bush had learned a little bit about the region he would have known that Iraq was an ethnic powder keg waiting to explode. And that an invasion would result in quagmire. HISS DADDY KNEW THAT!
Well, I know that saying Kerry’s comment was about Bush and not the soldiers was one of Kerry’s explainations….but I didn’t expect anyone to actually think that for real.
If so, I’ll take back my comment. Show me. The Chicago Tribune’s column on the comments mentions no such context. MSNBC’s comments mention no such context, though a “source close to Kerry” (AKA staff spinner) insists that Kerry misspoke.
But no, no misspeak. Kerry was speaking about education, urging students to navigate the educational system or . . . , well, you know the rest.
Nathan – for the record – I supported going into Afghanistan AT THE TIME WE DID IT! Not only in retrospect.
YOU might think that invading Iran would make me and others support the occupation of Iraq; if you do then you have been out in the desert sun without a hat WAY too long!
As for Afghanistan today I am very concerned that we are dropping the ball there and that our victory is slipping away.
“Kerry then told the students that if they were able to navigate the education system, they could get comfortable jobs – “If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq,” he said to a mixture of laughter and gasps.”
I guess the question is who got us “stuck” in Iraq. I submit that it was Bush who did that.
I first read the words from Tony Snow’s remarks about it ” The White House accused Sen. John Kerry on Tuesday of troop-bashing, seizing on a comment the Democrat made to California students that those unable to navigate the country’s education system “get stuck in Iraq.”" and I had then also concluded that Kerry’s target was the CiC not the troops.
Nathan, I also supported going into Afghanistan. I thought (and still do) that Iraq was diverting resources from the primary goal: to get the people who attacked us. and if you take a look at what happened at Tora Bora, where the military and CIA commanders on the ground say OBL was at the time, we blew it by trying to pawn off the job on the warlords.
Well, I’m no Tracy, but I believe the “Huckleberry” reference is saying “Take me on. Fight me” …basically that. It was in that Tombstone movie where I think most people remember that reference from.
Kerry bleated about Saddam being a threat and he voted for the war, despite later claiming to be agianst it! As such, the lowlife has an ownership satke in this thing and he should have kept his filthy mouth shut!
I despise the shrub regime and I have always been aginst this war for big oil and the zionists. But, I was an officer and as a combat veteran I am disgusted by these remarks. This is much worse than what pudgy said about MJF.
I’ve said before, Iraq was a huge strategic blunder, and has been poorly managed on top of it. Going into Iran would only amplify that blunder.
Our men and women there are, however, just the opposite of how Kerry characterizes them. I think you’ll find, with a little research, that in fact our soldiers are on average better educated than their counterparts in civilian life.
But Ben, as Hank said, you’re not that stupid. Kerry said what he said. No amount of post-comment spinning will change it. It was an incredibly dumb thing to say. It’s also appears to be downplayed by the MSM.
GMC – I read the words, both as reported by Snow and direct. Obviously I interpret them diffeently then you do. Kerry did NOT characterize our troops as dumb; he characterized Bush that way. It was Bush who did the “huge strategic blunder, and has been poorly managed on top of it. Going into Iran would only amplify that blunder.”
Nathan,Stop trying to make it sound as if there are no Democrats fighting beside you. Do your Democrat comrades-in-arms know how much you despise them?
The supposedly “liberal” media is the spin here. They are reporting ONE remark.
Reportedly Kerry had cracked several jokes about bush prior to this one remark. I’ve no doubt that this was another jab at bush and he simply mis spoke.
Boy the Republicans are REALLY desperate to make so much out of nothing.
The moron Rush is calling Kerry’s gaffe “Christmas at Halloween.” This after HE domonstrated that he (Rush) is the very dregs of humanity with his attack on Michael J Fox.
Hannity is apopleptic! “I demand that every single Democrat renounce Senator Kerry!”
Spin and lie and cover up the truth.
Worst times and worst administration in history. Disaster in Iraq. And the right is worried about one statement. Sad and illustrative.
Spin?? Imagine that Congress was working on a multi-billion military funding bill — and the president (the CiC) threatened to VETO the bill because he didn’t like it.
Later, when a different version of the bill was guaranteed to pass, a Senator made a protest vote against it.
During the next campaign, the president (and his party) viciously attacked the Senator, saying his vote proved he did not support our troops.
That actually happened. A more accurate (and humorous) rewrite of an attack on Kerry.
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh071604.shtml“BUSH: No, he’s entitled to his view, but here’s mine: Members of Congress should not vote to send troops into battle and then vote against funding them. (Applause.)
Of course, as the Commander-in-Chief of this great military, I said I would VETO the $87 billion, if it passed in a form I didn’t like.”
The link below is to a piece on the ABC News website which raises an interesting question: in blogging, do posters perhaps provided too much information, whether alone or as a group which would allow the “enemy” access to information helpful to it; and, if so, what is the appropriate oversight necessary to prevent it from happening.
I wonder how the line is to be found, for, as pointed out by the reporter, often the bloggers provide the “good news” about what is going on in Iraq, which is allegedly being ignored by the MSM. It is my sense that the Pentagon loses, no matter what. What say you?
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/news/ci_4578034“Kerry charmed the crowd with tales of surfing at Mission Beach and got laughs for a series of one liners, including telling the crowd he had just returned from Texas, “Where the president used to live – now he lives in a state of denial.” ”
It’s logical the next thing he said was meant to be a joke.
Tiarht will not even bother to debate McGinn because why? Is the process of democracy beneath Tiarht? Or is because he really does not want to face a crowd where questions will be asked and he will have to answer them?
I’m sure Tiarht will win again but his power will be stripped if the Democrats take over the House. Tiarht had better be nice to the people that he walked all over to climb to the top because he might just be on his way back down again.
While I would welcome a debate between Mr. Tiahrt and Mr. McGinn, it won’t happen, for all the legitmate political considerations already pointed out on other threads earlier. Why should an incumbent, with all the built in advantages of the incumbency, give an underfunded, unknown challenger any free publicity? We might not like it, but this is the real world of politics.
You will notice Lucee that when Nathan speaks of liberals and democrats he uses the exact words. Unlike the liberals and democrats that use words like republikan, repukes, nazi, etc., etc., and so on and so forth.
I can think of dozens of names that the dems and libs commonly substitue for republican, conservative and Christian on this BLOG and what you come up with is:
“Funny thing about name calling Nathan, you have used the label Liberals attached to Democrats and never once meant that in a positive manner.”
It’s not his fault dear, he was raised to question ignorance.
There are debates going on all over this country. There are many incumbents who are debating challengers to their office. That is how our political process is SUPPOSED to work.
Tiahrt has thumbed his nose at that process and his constituents. He will get an email from me every single day until he sends me a legitimate reason why.
The very fact that poor ol’ Garth is the democratic candidate is proof that the dems doon’t wish to contest the 4th district of Kansas in a serious manner.
You can’t find fault with Tiahrt not taking his opponent seriously.
He doesn’t want to debate because he is ashamed of his record, and ashamed of the do nothing congress, meanwhile, he lets bush get away with what ever he wants.
I don’t know, JR. I know of no legal, constitutional, or electoral rule which requires debates. If I were in Tiahart’s shoes, I’d not debate either. Why should I? What possible advantage do I gain by doing so?
We migh wish for a debate. We might hope for one. But the goal here for candidates is to win. This is real politics, not the civics book world. And debating (or not) is simply a tactical decision, like any other.
It appears that he gave a legitimate reason to KSN: debating is not in his political interests. You may not like that answer, and you may vote against him because of it, but it’s an honest answer. Welcome to the real world.
Ben, I am not an advisor to the Governor; I surmise she felt it advantageous to debate Dr. Barnett for the purpose of highlighting their differences. IIRC, the early Rasmussen (state-wide) polls had that race much tighter than it currently polls; confidence, perhaps?
Chuck Knapp told me that if I wanted representation in the congress, I should move to the district of the candidate of my choice.
Note for a lesson for MY son.
1. “The guy with the most money wins.” That is the REPUBLICAN way anyway
2. “It is like I’ve always told ya Nathan. Republicans are evil. They do not care about you. They do not care about America or its traditions. They care only about themselves and their power. They are to be despised and fought.
3 Republicans feel themselves above you. They owe you no answers! What they say and do is right ……just because…NOT
4 Given the above three, as long as Republicans are in power you owe this country no loyalty and I strongly encourage you to avoid military service. In it current state, America is NOT worth fighing for.
The Gov is a Democrat in a Republican state. She comes off well, the state is doing well, she needs to debate.Tiahart would have to defend Iraq and that is not easy. He’s way(?) ahead in the polls. No need to debate. It’s just smart politics. If enough folks don’t like it, he will pay. (He won’t)
As much as I’d like to, I can’t think of anyway to spin that; in the context it sounds suspiciously like “Only the uneducated with no other options join the military…”
Hank, I have to say that I’ve seen many more examples of “so-called conservatives” using slurs as opposed to liberals. Hotlick is a prime example. There are others. But hey, keep your head firmly buried in the sand, ok?
I’m gonna write Tiahrt and ask him what I should tell my son. Tiahrt owes it to tell us why he despises MOST of his constituents and our political traditions.
dave s-Show me where I have used slurs.tara-Kerry is not running, but he was you people’s candidate for prez.It really shows the libs contempt for the armed forces.”I support our troops, but not their mission”Double speak hogwash
“If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they’re crazy. This is the classic G.O.P. playbook. I’m sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did.
I’m not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox’s Parkinson’s disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq . It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have.
The people who owe our troops an apology are George W. Bush and Dick Cheney who misled America into war and have given us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals, killed and maimed our soldiers, and widened the terrorist threat instead of defeating it. These Republicans are afraid to debate veterans who live and breathe the concerns of our troops, not the empty slogans of an Administration that sent our brave troops to war without body armor.
Bottom line, these Republicans want to debate straw men because they’re afraid to debate real men. And this time it won’t work because we’re going to stay in their face with the truth and deny them even a sliver of light for their distortions. No Democrat will be bullied by an administration that has a cut and run policy in Afghanistan and a stand still and lose strategy in Iraq .”
POLITICIANS care about power. Power is what the game is all about. Thus, the first and primary rule of politics – WIN. Anything else is a tactical call, within the applicable rules. That applies for BOTH parties. We are free to criticize those tactical decisions, and to vote accordingly. But realize the decisions for what they are.
“the one with the most money wins”If I remember a study I once read correctly (yes, I know the risk of saying it this way), that is true, and is true across party lines. The conclusion of the study was that the single strongest correlator to winning was spending the most money. Sad it may be, but it’s reality.
And yes, JR, teach that son to have his eyes open to the real world now. All of it. Just try to keep your own open as well. We all wear rose-colored glasses, to a certain extent, me too. Try to peel yours back occasionally. The world is not that black and white.
dave s-This is the same guy who testified against his comrades in Congress after Viet Nam. It’s what got the swift boat guys so mad. He spent one sentence trying to blow off what he said. Go to school, learn, do your homework, get smart, so you don’t end up in Iraq.He said it!He said it, period.
Kerry has learned from the Clinton’s well. Attack the critics. He could have gone another way by apologizing some how or another and letting it all blow over.One sentence defense. Humbug!
“I don’t despise Democrats. The word I used was liberals.
“Fortunatley for me, about 90 percent of the people I meet here are not liberals and don’t agree with half the crap said here.”
Wrong again, Nathan.
I am a liberal. Well, actually I’m a radical = a liberal who actual does something about it.
But liberal is close enough.
I’d put CF, Doug, JR, Steven D., Tracy, cosmos, .morg, CR, RD, political_mom, Tara, lucee, KSFRMGRRL and Roo Rah in that category too (not that we all agree on everything, of course).
We refuse to let Rush Limbaugh define “liberal” anymore.
Liberal means to believe that we’re all in this together, that some problems are so big that only government is big enough to solve them, that treating people well creates a good society.
As John F. Kennedy said in 1960, “For liberalism is not so much a party creed or set of fixed platform promises as it is an attitude of mind and heart, a faith in man’s ability through the experiences of his reason and judgment to increase for himself and his fellow men the amount of justice and freedom and brotherhood which all human life deserves.”
This is the key difference between conservative and liberal. The conservative worships the old. He has benefitted from the status quo, and he must maintain it. Tradition is everything.
Facts and empiricism must be bent to the will of dogma in this world view.
The liberal is pragmatic. We believe that conclusions should follow from facts and not the other way around.
Jonathan Chait writes, “The contrast between economic liberalism and economic conservatism, then, ultimately lies not only in different values or preferences but in different epistemologies. Liberalism is a more deeply pragmatic governing philosophy–more open to change, more receptive to empiricism, and ultimately better at producing policies that improve the human condition–than conservatism.
“Now, liberalism’s pragmatic superiority wouldn’t matter to a true ideological conservative any more than news about the medical benefits of pork (to pick an imaginary example) would cause a strictly observant Jew to begin eating ham sandwiches. But, if you have no particular a priori preference about the size of government and care only about tangible outcomes, then liberalism’s aversion to dogma makes it superior as a practical governing philosophy.”
Of course, conservatives hate science. For the scientific method is the way liberals think.
FInal thoughts (for now ) as it is almost time for trick or treating.
Interesting experiment here. I am going keep track of the houses along our way. I bet more houses with Democrat signs give out candy and the GOP signed houses are mostly dark. We will see if I am right.
GMC. You can call me an idealist if you like. MY idea of a representative is Jimmy Stewarts character in “Mr. Smith Goes to Washington”
Tiahrt is SUPPOSED to be a Representative. Clearly we have learned that he represents…..only HIS best interests and not his constituents. I say he should answer for that.
“Real world” Maybe. I always thought the world is what we make it.
Sure Capn. blah blah blahIs it the libs who think I’m smart enough to go to a casino with my money, but too stupid to invest a small part of MY money into a voluntary SS account?Is it the libs who thinks it’s OK to take a child who is8-15/16 months old and kill it, but won’t kill a man who has raped and murdered?Is it the libs who think we are too stupid to conceal/carry, but leave us defenseless against the ones who conceal/carry illegally?Is it the libs who want tore-distribute other peoples money?Eat me.
What I wrote is all true.The “eat me” was uncalled for,BUT I have nothing to apologize for [please insert lame ass Kerry speech from today]What I wrote is all true.
Well, Hotlicker, what you wrote was in fact, all false.
1. Liberals tend to favor gun control–that’s not the elimination of guns or blanket opposition to concealed carry. I for one think that rifles and pistols should be “fingerprinted” so they can be traced in random shootings.
2. The “privatizing” of Social Security is an attempt by the Bush administration to destroy the most popular and successful government program ever created. Liberals oppose privatization because it’s stupid and hurts society.
It’s not “social security reform”–private accounts are what we had before we had social security and why social security was invented.
This is the neo-con attempt to destroy what they’ve always hated: a big gov’t program that works to improve society.
3. Partial birth abortions. Yes, I support them. Because there’s no reason any sentient being would carry a baby almost to term and then want to dispose of it UNLESS it had some serious medical problem that would render it unviable and dangerous to deliver.
Complications from pregnancy are a common form of death for women. I support anything that a woman and her doctor believe will reduce that risk.
4. It’s the rapture right who want to limit your access to a casino, not me.
5. As far as “redistributing people’s money,” that’s what taxes are. The gov’t takes your and my money and spends it on roads, the military, schools, police, fire, etc. etc.
The question is not whether you’re for or against it, because it must be done to live in a civilized society.
The question is whether it will be used to benefit society by helping poor people, say, or wasted by throwing it a big government contractors like we’re doing in Iraq right now.
I OPPOSE WELFARE: welfare for Halliburton, welfare for Blackwater, welfare for Bechtold, etc.–all the big corporations making 400 million dollars a WEEK that we’re blowing in Iraq with no oversight or accounting.
“While campaigning in California, Kerry told a college crowd on Monday: ‘You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.’
“Kerry’s office released his prepared remarks, which said, “Do you know where you end up if you don’t study, if you aren’t smart, if you’re intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush.’”
If this omission is true, I am not real impressed with Kerry’s joke writers. I am guessing that he actually just said a numb skull thing. I think the president and other Republicans ought to focus on this as much as they can. Defending their records has got to be much more difficult.
“This is the neo-con attempt to destroy what they’ve always hated: a big gov’t program that works to improve society.”
Greg Palast has also made the point that Bush is likely raiding social security funds and wishes to not pay them back. The party of responsibility, remember?
WICHITA, Kansas, Oct 31, 2006 — There is just one week to go before voters head to the polls. Through ads and debates, we’ve gotten a chance to know many of the candidates. But in the race for the Fourth Congressional District seat, which includes Wichita, there’s only one recognizable face; six-term Congressman Todd Tiahrt. That fact has left his opponent full of frustration.
Throughout this election season, we’ve seen spirited debates between Kansas politicians. Occasionally, nasty has replaced spirited when it comes to describing what’s happened up on stage.
But there have been no exchanges between Congressional Representative Todd Tiahrt and his democratic opponent, Garth McGinn.
“It’s what the voters of the Fourth Congressional District deserve. I think, especially given the magnitude of what’s going wrong in Washington, I think the voters deserve to know what their congressman intends to do about it. By the same token, deserve to know what I would do about it if I was there congressman.”
McGinn doesn’t blame Tiahrt, the rookie politician says he should have been more proactive in seeking a debate. Nevertheless he’s frustrated about not having been able to square off against the congressman.
Reresentaive Tiahrt said he thinks Garth McGinn is a bright guy with good ideas but that debating McGinn would not be a beneficial way to spend his time.
“I’ve spent time getting my information out and I have a very full schedule so I haven’t scheduled anything like that today,” said Tiahrt.
Meanwhile, the race between Tiahrt and McGinn has drawn a bit of national attention. Esquire Magazine, a liberal publication endorsing McGinn, said, “Tiahrt took money from tom Delay, gave money to Tom Delay, voted twice for House rules to protect Tom Delay and steadfastly defended Tom Delay, even after Delay’s indictment.”
McGinn says his criticism of Tiahrt doesn’t stop there.
“We have a lot of things going wrong in Washington that we need to get fixed. We’re dumping $9 million of debt on our kids [and] we’ve got the war in Iraq on the top of everyone’s list.”
“I respect that he has views that are significantly different than mine,” said Tiahrt. “And I think the clarity that I put in my advertising, in my appearances and the information I’ve put out talks about the record I’ve done and the vision I have for the future.”
Regarding that Esquire Magazine endorsement, a Tiahrt spokesperson says Tom Delay has not been convicted yet and that some of the charges have even been dropped. The spokesperson pointed out that republican-backed rules also forced Delay to step down so there’s nothing here to hide.
Captn,Our President Bush proposed a combination of a government funded program and personal accounts through partial privatization of the SS system. The personal accounts could be invested various managed investment funds similar to the government employees’ Thrift Savings Plan, in which the investor can choose between Treasury Bills, Corporate Bonds and a stock market fund. This means I would control my money, which you democrats don’t want to have happen. SS is an unsustainable entitlement programs that need to be reformed now not later. There was no attempt to even suggested that Social Security be eliminated, that is your misconception. Which is true about everything else you stated, a total misconception.
This is too enjoyable to keep to myself. You KNOW you are a victim when the vast right AND left conspiracies collude to undermine you.
“The way [Katherine] Harris sees it, a vast left- and right-wing conspiracy, encompassing both the “liberal media” and the Republican “elite,” is attempting to keep her out of the Senate. She says anyone could see the way the panel of questioners coddled Nelson at their debate last week. Her voice gets all high and mocking as she imitates them.”
“Perhaps the worst blow to Harris’s campaign has been the stories that have emerged from former staffers. They describe a Jekyll-and-Hyde candidate who can be seductively charming at one moment and pitch a temper tantrum the next, throwing a cellphone at a wall or a sheaf of papers at a campaign manager. Former chief adviser Ed Rollins, who managed Ronald Reagan’s reelection to the White House in 1984, said working for Harris was like ‘being in insanity camp.’ He likened her staff to dogs that have been kicked.”
Harris is writing a “tell-all” book about her mistreatment from so many. I know I’ll have tears in my eyes as I read it. Tears of laughter most likely.
“You know, education – if you make the most of it – you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq,” he said.
Translation?You’re stupid if you are serving in the military.
I don’t see the President or his “failed policy” anywhere near that quote.
Liberals who were so sure and arrogant of taking back the house have got to be losing control of bodily functions of this one. It’s the true colors of the party coming out. Arrogant arrogant arrogant SOB’s.Lots of conservatives were going to sit this one out and one of your poster boys just revigorized the right.
You do not read carefully. The entire context of Kerry’s gaffe is revealed upthread. This is a one day story nothing more. The right is latching onto it because it is the first “traction” they’ve had in months.
” I don’t see the President or his “failed policy” anywhere near that quote”
No? How about 3 thousand American soldiers are dead and Iraq is permanently broken because of weapons of mass destruction that did not exist? How about bush at a party showing pictures of him looking under rugs and furniture say “No no weapons of mass destruction there!”
Perspective Kia. Perspective. This little mis speak of Kerrys is NOTHING compared to the most failed administration in history.
By the way my Halloween “poll” is complete. Houses giving out treats that have Democrat signs in the yard? 14
Houses giving out candy with Republican signage? DRUM ROLL PLEASE!
1
What an unfun boring lot you Republicans are. Little wonder you make mountains outta molehills.
See YOU at the polls. Just count the votes fair is all I ask.
John Kerry is a liar and a cheat. He is a hiss and a byword even among Liberals. He gave the Republicans the 2004 election because many people voted against Kerry instead of for Bush.
I come from a family just filled to the brim with idiots. My grandfather (1st generation German) enlisted in the U.S. Navy to fight the Kaiser. My father enlisted in the Navy to fight in the Pacific during WWII. My three uncles also fought in WWII.
To show my incredible stupidity I married a sailor who served in the Indian Ocean during the 1980’s and who went face to face with the USSR during the KAL007 mess. His father, uncles and brother all also served in the military.
My children who have graduated high school have done so with honors. I graduate Cum Laude from college with a degree in history.
My apologies to Mr. Kerry for being so imbecilic in raising good, intelligent, faithful citizens. I also apologize for members of my family who did not lie or cheat to get out of service or who claimed to be more valiant that they were. I also apologize to his family because they can’t point to his service with pride as I can to mine.
Maybe he can use my example and apologize to the 70 percent of Americans he offended.OrMaybe he can do all America a favor and leave the country. I hear France is looking for a Minister of Dimmitude, maybe we could get PBS to do a fund raiser to pay his moving expenses.
I took Kerry’s comment that if one is lucky enough to get into college, they have a better chance of getting a job and won’t have to enlist in the military. That’s all it meant to me.
Let’s face it folks, the real soldiers in Vietnam were the less educated young males that did not get into college. And the same thing appears to be happening again, especially if we have to send over even more troops that we don’t have!
But Bush and his cronies are so desperate to hang onto anything that will help them in this time of desperation, they are once again attacking the messenger. They already have their swiftboat ads up and running – don’t they?
John Kerry did say something accurate though – those Republicans that are criticizing good patriotic Democrats now are the very ones that have never worn a military uniform and NEVER fought for their country. Kerry did in Vietnam and maybe he just knows a little more about combat than Bush, Cheney or Karl Rove.
Get over yourself sean hannity wannabe. You’ve no credibility here.
Please show me bush’s shining service record. Or Cheney’s or Rumsfelds, or Rush Limbaughs.
Or you could extol me with the brave service of Karl Rove who was beat up by a girl at the age of 9 and ALSO never served in the military.
Regale me with the brave service record of Tom Delay or Newt Gingrich….
And I could go on and on.
I’ll raise something of a different point.
The military OVERWHELMINGLY is Republican leaning. Why is that? I call it unfortunate considering how Republican politicians so badly use the military……especially under the bush admininstration.
But I do wish to understand it. YOU know, so I can help those otherwise good folks think and vote more intelligently.
Is it because they think that way going in to the military? No that is not likely. Political attitudes and leanings are pretty evenly split. It is not likely that a random voluteer group would be disposed one political way or the other.
What is MORE likely is that the breakdown in individuality that the military uses as part of its training CREATES Republican thinking people. YOU know, dogmatic types with blind allegiance to leaders, a self proclaimed (arguably earned) corner on “patriotism”, and a tendency to march lockstep not just on the parade field but in thinking? All hallmarks of Republicans whether they have served or not.
The question is. Are our troops being brainwashed to support one party and if so why?
Which most closely matches reality, and makes the most sense?
1) “You know, education – if you make the most of it – you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”
2) “Do you know where you end up if you don’t study, if you aren’t smart, if you’re intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush.’”
kia, tell us how many students who dropped and/or flunked out of Pasadena City College since 2003 are now “stuck in Iraq”?
Also kia, who got us “stuck in Iraq”? Some students, a few years ago at Pasadena City College, who didn’t study hard enough?
KSN has showed greater journalistic integrity than the Wichita Eagle in asking why Todd Tiahrt will not debate his democratic challenger Garth McGinn.
I am going to write to KSN and ask them to forum a debate between McGinn and Tiahrt. If Tiahrt chooses not to show then McGinn can debate an empty chair.
Hey, Tiahrt is already an empty suit for all but the insanely rich.
I encourge all here to write to KSN and DEMAND a debate between a man who WANTS to represent his district (Garth McGinn) and a man who clearly cares more about his self than his constituents. (Todd Tiahrt)
“YOU know, dogmatic types with blind allegiance to leaders, a self proclaimed (arguably earned) corner on “patriotism”, and a tendency to march lockstep not just on the parade field but in thinking? All hallmarks of Republicans whether they have served or not.”
I would make myself scarce on Veterans Day if I was you. heh
There’s not a draft cosmos or anyone else who wants to portray service people as “stuck” in the war. No one is stuck anywhere. They are serving by choice.
Words mean something Nimrod. When someone says out loud “if you study hard….. if you don’t you get stuck in Iraq, that is what he means. If he doesn’t mean what he says then he should shut up.
If you can’t respect other peoples opinions why comment on anything. After all the rest of us are just “witches” “morons” “idiots”, right. All you libs are the same. If anybody disagrees with you, call them names, swear at them and change the subject.
I didn’t site anyone else’s war record but the one’s of my own family. I don’t need radio talking heads to tell me what to think. Unlike the left I don’t wait for someone to tell me where to stand on the issues. John Kerry insulted my grandfathers, uncles, father, husband, his grandfathers, father, uncles and brother. I know what he said, he’s said it before just not as plainly. He hates the military and he hates this country and if it were up to him, he’d have turned us over to the terrorist the day after 9/11.
So politely and sincerely I say, God bless you and have a blessed day (I really couldn’t think of anything that would annoy you more.)
J.R.Maybe the military and republicans, unlike democrats, know there are things worth fighting and dying for!
I used to think there was room around the ideological table for everyone. That it was important to have liberal and conservative views as well as all those in between, but some of you people are convincing me other wise. Maybe this is the war that will end human kind. At the moment I’m not sure that would be such a bad thing.
I smell a nothing story being blown WAY out of proportion to cover up and distract from:
Foley, Iraq, DeLay, Abramoff, No WMDs, subverting the Constitution, record debt, record trade deficit,broken border,bin Laden at large, anthrax attacker at large……
shall I go on?
ONE mangled jab at the most failed president in history is the best you’ve got?
Oh and the Veterans day remark? Many of my very good friends are veterans.
That is right I said veterans. They DID serve. Their distance from that service has liberated (liberalized?) their perspective.
Who is the better friend of the troops? Is it I and those who question vigorously their use or mis-use? Or are they better advocated by those who say more must die to sanctify the sacrifice of the already dead? In for a penny in for a pound is pretty poor thinking when the currency is those who volnteer to serve!
I can’t believe the shills keep just plugging along that in all the context that Kerry was speaking, he SUDDENLY switched from talking about the President being a dummy, to troops being dummies.
Ya know, even when Clinton went on his little ‘is’ definition crap, I could say “oh man, now that’s ridiculous”. Just as ridiculous as trying to say this was about the troops.
Not even Scarboro can say this comment was directed toward the troops, nor Matthews. But I’ll bet MONEY who IS saying this comment was directed toward the troops…O’Reility-challenged and Limpballs.
Two points –1 — IF John Kerry was commenting on George Bush intelligence and education, he is really in denial. John Kerry — as came out after his military records were released has a lower IQ than Bush — and worse grades at Yale, where Bush’s best grades were obtained in courses like Anthropology and philosophy and Kerry’s were in Political Science. Also, if you follow the logic of Kerry’s attempted (presumed) joke, he would be saying that a failed education creates one being elected governor of Texas and then President of the United States…and then one gets stuck in Iraq — an extremely convoluted and inconceivability line of thought, and pretty dumb!
2 — -In any case, the people he owes an apology to ise troops, and all military people and families. Even accepting that it was a bungled joke, the fact is he hurt a whole lot of people. He needs to take responsibility for that hurt, even if unintended. We all have “misspoke”, but if it hurt anyone, the decent thing most people would do is apologize for that hurt (due to the “bungle”). If Kerry was more of a person and less of a political animal, he would have immediately said he misspoke and apologized for the inadvertent hurt caused by his gaff. The time for Kerry to do this with any genuineness has now come and gone…more signs that he is far less intelligent than he like people to believe
It is clear to me that you are an emotionally disturbed person. I am sorry truly for your pain. But it does not allow you a special and unquestioned voice here.
To be fair, your claims of family service are just that…..claims. You must know that we must treat them with the same skepticism that we hold the service EVADERS I listed to.
Last year, the Heritage Foundation published a study titled, “Debunking the myth of the underprivileged soldier,” which said “the typical recruit in the all-volunteer force is wealthier, more educated and more rural than the average 18- to 24-year-old citizen is.”
For every two recruits coming from the poorest neighborhoods, the study said, “there are three recruits coming from the richest neighborhoods.”
“It is clear to me that you are an emotionally disturbed person. I am sorry truly for your pain. But it does not allow you a special and unquestioned voice here.”
You know why you are ineffective in this blog J R and probably anywhere else.
It’s because you are a hate monger. You breathe it, spit it, throw it at everyone you get a chance to. You insult, belittle, deride, discredit by slur and any other low-handed trick you can think of.
Give it a rest and try to discuss or at least have a sense of humor about things.
You must admit what Kerry said, was bone-headed, whether it was intentional or not.
unh uh Kia you and yours do NOT get off that easy.
Kerry screwed up a jab at bush. That occurred YESTERDAY!
It is Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, AND the so called “liberal” media that is driving (and creating!) Kerry’s “attack” on the troops.
Why are Rush, Hannity and the so called “liberal” media undermining the morale of our troops by CREATING a “story” where an important political leader supposedly called the troops dumb?
Gives new meaning to “If it bleeds it leads!” does it not?
//”You know education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq,”// John Kerry October 30, 2006
He really didn’t mean that. What he meant to say was “”You know education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don’t, you get stuck voting for Liberals.”That makes much more sense.
“There’s not a draft cosmos or anyone else who wants to portray service people as “stuck” in the war. No one is stuck anywhere. They are serving by choice.”
Thank you kia, for correctly pointing out that students who don’t study hard enough, etc, are not forced to be “stuck in Iraq”.
As a liberal I realize that you contribute greatly to the good of the country with your feelings, great thoughts and witty words but what have you actually ever contributed to your country? Community? Neighborhood? Church?
I realize that by pointing out the many failings of republicans in general and the many failings of the current administration in particular that you have demonstrated great patriotism, but what exctly have you ever done to make this country better?
Now please don’t take offense but have you ever been in a parade or do you just watch them on TV? Have you ever participated in the election of our leaders past merely voting and complaining? Ever run for office? Ever been a volunteer that worked directly for and with a candidate? Ever been an officer in a candidate’s election staff? Ever volunteered to work for a political party in getting out the vote?
Have you ever been in the service? Tried to enlist? Been turned down for some reason or another? Or do you merely show contempt for the servicemen like your previous post so clearly inidicates?
Just wondering, JR. I read a lot of your posts, but I obviously miss quite a few because many threads I never open. So it’s entirely posible that I might have missed your many personal contributions to society other than your witty words.
On the other hand, people that have been around this BLOG as long as I have know that I am retired Navy. They know a little about my service. They know that on occasion you have belittled me in various ways for and about my service. You equate my pension and my health care benefits to being on the government dole. You have belittled my medals and ribbons.
People know that I am a Christian; husband and father; a republican. People know that I love dogs and horses. I raise dogs. I train dogs. I rescue dogs. I trial and show dogs. Once I believe you ridiculed me for having purebred dogs. You have a dog, you enjoy and love your dog. What have you ever done to benefit dogs in general?
A lot of the people that have been on this BLOG for a while remember that I worked quite a bit on Tiahrt’s first campaign for congress. I first worked for his apponent in the primary, David Roll. I went to Washington, DC and worked with the RNC on his campaign. I’ve run for office. I currently hold a very minor public office.
I’m not bragging, merely pointing out that I’ve shared many of my personal experiences on this BLOG in the past. Many of which I have recieved a snide shot from you about. Are you a very private, humble, modest man, or do you merely just find fault with others?
My boy is a US Marine. I pray that you and others on this BLOG have had or will have the pride and joy that I had the day I saw my boy graduate from bootcamp. I hope that you and others on this BLOG will get a chance to discover the intelligence, patriotism and will that the men and women in the Marines have. The ones I have had the honor to meet since my boy joined the Marines are the smartest, toughest and best this country has to offer.
There is seldom a day that goes by that my boy doesn’t do or say something that makes me proud. I hope that you and others on this BLOG have the joy and pride I have had watching my son grow and mature into a man.
They are in Iraq not because some ‘idiot sent them there’. They are there because they want to be there. They are there because they understand the mission and realize they are doing a job that has to be done. The retention rate of the Marines is testimony to their understanding and to their dedication to the job that needs to be done.
My boy had fullfilled his military obligation with four years active duty and was attending WSU when 9/11 happened. When others were trying to pin the blame somewhere other than the actuall terrorists my boy joined the Marine Corps reserve, ‘in case the country needed him’. Others in his unit were there for the same reason, willing to put their education, careers, marriage or their very life on hold ‘in case their country needed them’.
Nathan lacked 10 credit hours to complete a dual degree in electrical engineering and computer science when he was called up. He left for Iraq willingly and eager to contribute to the effort to defeat terrorism.
I apologize for going on and on, but sometimes I just get weary of your never-ending stream of self-righteous ignorant bullshit. Especially when you show contempt for the service men and women that willingly sacrifice their lives for your right to even exist.
You are new to this forum. You know nothing about my history here.
Folks on “your side” have posted lies on me and my family.
I myself have NEVER been busted in a distortion, twist, or outright lie. I have made a mistake or two for which I PROFUSELY apologized.
I have encoutered posters like “seanmahair” before. The results over the long or short term for them were ultimately not pretty. I have learned from that. I’ve no desire to add to someones pain. I could name names but you do not know them and if they still read here, I do not wish to add to their pain.I am no shill. The only thing I “hate” is liars or shills.
I routinely am in contact with those on “my side” and ask them if I go too far. They tell me I do not go far enough.
I also contact those not on “my side” to ask if I am being fair. I have never had a private complaint or rebuke. In fact, I have brought folks to this forum who avoid the regular media. Again, being new you would not know about that. THOSE folks mostly are polar opposites of me politically. Yet THEY trusted me. This is a trust I hold in very high regard and again, I’ve had no complaints.
You want to make me a hater? YEAH I hate lying and hypocrisy and manipulation. You go to the archives and find me guilty of any of those things. Then maybe you will have a point.
Kerry? I already SAID it was a gaffe. It was a gaffe in front of a few hundred people in AMERICA. It is Rush and Hannity and the media and seanmahair and YOU that are showing it to the troops.
My last post crossed Mr Price’s missive to me. This is gonna take awhile.
Lets start at the beginning.
“…but what have you actually ever contributed to your country? Community? Neighborhood? Church?
I am one of the loudest advocates that Todd Tiahrt should actually defend his right to hold his office. I have been demanding that the Eagle hold him accountable to our political traditions for more than a month. I am or have been a member of the Humane Society, Greenpeace, the Planetary Society, The Sierra club, the Wilderness Society, I could go on. I am most proud of my work with the Young Astronauts. COUNTRY
Again, my fight for Todd Tiarht to be accountable to his district, my work at my kids school, my NO on the Arena vote, my membership in and advocacy of local labor union, COMMUNITY
NEIGHBORHOOD Mine is one of three homes with basements in my neigborhood. It is open as a shelter in the event of tornado. I am a member of the neighborhood watch. I share my trash dumpster with two elderly neighbors.
Church? Well as you know Hank I am not a member of any church.
Let’s see if you have posted further. Your technology IS better than mine. I will check and be back.
“Have you ever participated in the election of our leaders past voting and complaining?”
YUP. Been posting for a month to hold Tiarht accountable to his constituents. YOU have ridiculed me for that.
“ever participate in a parade”
Your point? I have actually. Parades serve little purpose. I DO cheer Vietnam vets who march in parades. YOU and yours largely belittle many of them their homeless status.
“….ever run for office?”
No Hank I don’t have the money. Neither does Garth McGinn. Again, your point?
And just WHERE is my contempt for servicemen? Is MY position and politics getting them killed?
YOU hank say:
“You have belittled my medals and ribbons.”
PROVE THAT! You have never posted as to your “medals and ribbons”. So how could I belittle them? I wouldn’t.
I DO call some of what you post hypocrisy. You rail against government welfare. But like it or not, your career in the military WAS a government job. You do brag that I am paying your retirement. I can do a bonedig and show that.
“Once I believe you ridiculed me for having purebred dogs.”
Think again. YOU KNOW like you had to after you accused me of being a drug user? I own a purebred registered ShihTru and I am no hypocrite.
Your work with dogs I have applauded! Check the last pit bull thread.
“What have you done to benefit dogs in general?”
Wow you really do hate and want to make me hated don’t you? All while you pretend at sainthood for actions I have appaluded you for.
I cite the above. More?
Trick or treating tonight, my son and I came on a lost ShihTzu. I carried that dog to every house we visited looking for anyone who could find the owner. That dog is in my backyard right now. I SHOULD be searching online for the owner. I’ll have to do that tomorrow as I am here now defending myself from your attacks. If your email is still live, I can send you a pic of the dog. If I cannot find the owner, it will need a rescue.
“…do you merely find faults with others?”
I don’t lie on people Hank. YOU and your son do that. I can go there. Let’s not.
Then lots of pride from you about your son and his service. Love of country etc.
Show me a country I can love and I’ll show it to MY son. Sorry, I don’t see it. I don’t have the necessary ingredient…….MONEY. How you got it I will leave alone. THAT you have it is the difference in our perspective.
I won’t impugn Nathan his motive. That is not what I do.He does it alot to me. I let it go.
Hank you have YOUR America and YOUR Nathan is fighting for it.I understand. You are for whatever reason,comfortable. I have my America and I cannot imagine asking or expecting MY Nathan to fight for it. Me and mine are NOT comfortable. You can call it our fault all you like but it is a reality you and yours made.
Gotta go now. The dog I do not care about is barking at the back door. Also? I gotta try and get Garth McGinn some fair treatment against YOUR congressman Todd Tiahrt.
Late on Kerry thing. But if Kerry’s IQ is tested lower than Bush’, then it can only be a proof that Kerry at least tried to make the best of what he had, rather than sending it to pickle factory.
People who cheap shot under a one-hit wonder name don’t deserve answers.
Buzz off.
Hank–
I have a lot of respect and admiration for your service and your son’s.
SO, when have you ever heard JR or me or any other liberal poster say something that shows
“contempt for the service men and women that willingly sacrifice their lives for your right to even exist.”
You’ve never heard that from anyone on our side of the aisle.
We’re the ones that want the body armor, the upgraded humvees, the improved medical benefits that our soldiers have coming to them.
We’re the ones that want the huge multinational companies making billions to actually do their damn jobs like feed the troops and give them clean water etc. instead of charging the taxpayer for nothing.
We’re the ones that want to get your son out of a war zone ASAP.
I’m going to take you at your word. I truely beleive that you are concerned about our military men and women.
Actually I believe that most of the people on this BLOG are good hearted with the best of the country in mind.
I just disagree with most of you.
JR showed contempt for the military in a post just a few posts above the one you bone digged my quote in as far as I’m concerned.
I like JR, I just get tired of his never ending stream of self righteous bull shit.
I wnat my son out of a war zone too. I want him out of the Marines. That being said, I did not send him there, GW did not sdend him there, he went because it was the right thing to do.
Thanks again for your concern, a prayer every now and then would help too!
Hell I don’t march in enough parades or rescue kittens from burning buildings to warrant Sainthood. Ask Hank. Then too my lack of any organized religion makes it unlikely I’ll be canonized let alone made a saint. I’d rather laugh with the sinners anyways. I’ll settle for Knighthood. Sir J R. Yeah, I like that.
Show me a country I can teach my kid to love is what I said. You yourself GMC would just have us embrace what is rather than what should be. (Tiahrts shameful actions being the origin of this line of arguement from yesterday)
I gotta go. There’s a lady with bad teeth and a sword that I have to see. Maybe I’ll start a parade on the way. Hank tell me about your medals so I can finish the ridiculing of them I never started.
Hank: “I wnat my son out of a war zone too. I want him out of the Marines. That being said, I did not send him there, GW did not sdend him there, he went because it was the right thing to do.”
So, CiC didn’t send him to Iraq, he went beacuse [he believed] it was the right thing to do. Sounds like a deserter or a mercenary.
In all cases, it is my belief that the US troops need to plan fo an orderly retreat to regroup. Perhaps even for a change in mission definition. Iraq is teetering on the brink of a civil war, and US may not capable to stop the descent.
And, Hank, I do hope that Nathan shall come home soon safely, that this nightmare will end soon, for the sake of all of us. It will take courage from the top to chart the best route to navigate.
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BREAKING NEWS (except in Kansas Press): Snoop Dog apparently makes phone calls too! THREE voters now report “Snoop Dog” phone calls:
* A Pottawatomie County voter reports receiving two phone calls, with a different female voice each time. “Last week’s voice was a rather angry young woman, and today’s was a smooth, professional female voice.”
* A call was received in Shawnee County: “It’s a woman’s voice referring to ‘Snoop Dog Kline.’ There was no ‘paid for’ in the recording.”
* A Sedgwick County resident reports: “The first part of the message is cut off as if the recording began to play immediately and did not wait for the tone. It was a woman’s voice that referenced Kline’s ‘prying’ into medical records. I checked my caller ID and it said ‘”Out of Area.’”
See info about the FOUR known Snoop Dog mailings, I, II, III, and IV. Is there a “missing” 5th mailing?
The Snoop Dog Page:Why is the Kansas Press Mostly Ignoring These Dogs?http://www.kansasmeadowlark.com/2006/SnoopDogs/index.htm
The Kansas press ignores how this “non-profit,” Kansans for Consumer Privacy, and Dr. Tiller are buying Paul Morrison to be their Attorney General. Why is the Kansas press afraid of telling the truth to the public? Why won’t the Kansas press protect young girls from sexual predators?
Kansans for Consumer Privacy shares the same address as Dr. Tiller ProKanDo PAC.
Here’s an interesting article in the LA Times.
Resistance to deadlines for Iraq is weakeningSome in military doubt insurgents would gain. Baghdad needs to be pushed, officials say.By Julian E. Barnes and Doyle McManus, Times Staff Writers9:54 PM PST, October 30, 2006
WASHINGTON — — Growing numbers of American military officers have begun to privately question a key tenet of U.S. strategy in Iraq — that setting a hard deadline for troop reductions would strengthen the insurgency and undermine efforts to create a stable state.
The Iraqi government’s refusal to take certain measures to reduce sectarian tensions between Sunni Arabs and the nation’s Shiite Muslim majority has led these officers to conclude that Iraqis will not make difficult decisions unless they are pushed. Therefore, they say, the advantages of deadlines may outweigh the drawbacks.
“Deadlines could help ensure that the Iraqi leaders recognize the imperative of coming to grips with the tough decisions they’ve got to make for there to be progress in the political arena,” said a senior Army officer who has served in Iraq. He asked that his name not be used because he did not want to publicly disagree with the stated policy of the president.
Former Pentagon official Kurt Campbell said more officers are calling for deadlines after concluding that the indefinite presence of U.S. forces enables the Shiite-run Iraqi government to avoid making compromises.
“There is a new belief that the biggest problem that we face is that our forces are the sand in the gears creating problems,” said Campbell, coauthor of a book on national security policy. “We are making things worse by giving the Iraqis a false sense of security at the governing level.”
For months, the Bush administration has been politely prodding the Iraqis on political and security reforms including the sharing of oil revenue, a crackdown on Shiite militias and constitutional changes. The discussions so far have yielded little, prompting experts to question whether the Iraqi government will ever compromise if there is no penalty for failing to make hard choices.
Over the last week, Bush administration officials have spoken about possible timetables for progress in Iraq, but softened their suggestions after talks with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki.
Although top administration officials are still steering clear of discussing the timing of American troop withdrawals, the officers’ comments come alongside public statements by prominent Republicans who have begun talking about the need to establish a date that the U.S. will begin to draw down, whether or not the Iraqi government takes steps toward political compromise.
President Bush and other administration opponents of hard deadlines have argued that telegraphing troop departures would help the insurgents.
Once the U.S. sets a withdrawal date, the Sunni-led guerrillas know how long they must hang on before American troops are gone, the administration has argued.
Opponents of timetables also fear that small drawdowns will unleash public demand for more dramatic withdrawals, allowing violence fomented by Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias to erode whatever political advances have been made.
Military officials generally have agreed with the civilian leadership that a deadline would strengthen insurgent and militia groups. But the failure of the Iraqi government to move forward on key political and security measures has left senior military leaders frustrated.
Although U.S. military leaders remain wary of the consequences of imposing deadlines, increasingly officers say they are starting to look more attractive. The shift in opinion is a sign that gridlock in the Iraqi government is seen as a greater threat to achieving stability in Iraq than the insurgency itself.
John Batiste, a retired major general who commanded a division in Iraq and has been critical of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, said that setting a date for a drawdown of combat brigades must be considered. Before the deadline, Batiste said, the U.S. also needs to step up its effort to advise and train the Iraqi military and police.
“Holding the Iraqi government accountable is important, and that has everything to do with setting expectations and timelines,” Batiste said. “It also has everything to do with doing all we can to ensure they are capable completing the task they are trying to do.”
Some officers who have served in Iraq believe that much of the Iraqi government is not functioning effectively. Finding ways to force the sectarian factions to put aside their differences and focus on improving security and basic services must be the top priority in Iraq, these officers say. Without government reform, the Iraqi security forces are unlikely to ever be strong enough to take on the insurgency or the sectarian militias.
“It’s basic counterinsurgency,” said a military officer who has served in Baghdad and did not want to publicly disagree with the president’s stated policy. “You have to have a trusted, capable government.”
Some in the military argue that publicizing a timetable for reducing forces is far less damaging to a counterinsurgency campaign than the administration has suggested.
Many officers, particularly those who adhere to the military philosophy of former Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, a retired Army general who served as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, believe that deadlines are necessary to avoid getting mired in an endless war fueled by enmity between Iraq’s long-subjugated Shiite population and the Sunni Arabs who ran the government under toppled leader Saddam Hussein.
“The Powell Doctrine is all about overwhelming numbers of troops with specific missions, with specified end-states, for specified durations with — go figure — an exit strategy,” said the officer who has served in Baghdad. “To not mention this stuff is actually counter to the contemporary military mind-set.”
Although Democrats like Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan, the ranking minority member of the Armed Services Committee, have long argued that a deadline is the best way to move development of the Iraqi security force forward, opponents of the administration are no longer the only ones making the argument.
A number of Republicans now have either explicitly endorsed timelines for troop drawdowns or voiced support for considering a strategy shift. Among them are Rep. Christopher Shays of Connecticut, Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania and Richard L. Armitage, Powell’s former top deputy at the State Department.
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Sen. John W. Warner, the Republican chair of the Armed Services Committee, has called for a new approach if the security situation does not improve.
“The key to this thing is impressing upon that government that they’ve got to come to grips with what is causing this increase in violence and killing both Iraqis and our own armed forces,” Warner said this month on Fox News.
Without a deadline, Maliki will not tackle the difficult problem of bridging Sunni and Shiite political disagreements, said Michael Rubin, a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and a former Coalition Provisional Authority official.
“Maliki will not hit the benchmarks, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t give them,” said Rubin, who does not favor troop withdrawals as a penalty. “Iraqis approach deadlines by doing nothing until two days before, and then locking themselves in smoke-filled rooms and only then do they … try to hash out a solution.”
Officially, administration officials remain opposed to discussing deadlines.
Nevertheless, with the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad drafting a series of benchmarks for the Maliki government, there were signs last week that the administration had eased its opposition to timetables and might take a tougher stance with the Iraqi government.
Former Pentagon official Campbell said that military officers would not be discussing their change of heart over timetables if administration officials had not signaled a new willingness to shift positions.
“Even though there are deep reservoirs of unhappiness in the military about certain aspects of administration policy, active-duty guys are very reluctant to publicly disagree with the leadership,” he said. “But the signals are clear from the administration that it is acceptable to talk about timetables. They are taking their cues from their civilian masters.”*************************************Gee, it’s really nice that BushCo has belatedly admitted, sub rosa, that the Dems are right.
The upcoming Democratic majority-win in the House isn’t perfect. It’s analogous to, if you’ve ingested poison, and go to a hospital and are given an antidote. The antidote alone would never be taken, because it has its own toxic properties. Given after the poison, it may incur side effects. But if it saves your life, you’re going to be thankful. Side effects are better than dying.
It was once argued–I saw this in the LA Times–that most Americans preferred a president of one party and a congress of the other party, i.e. a means of assuring checks and balances. It creates moderation, and prevents excesses. It sounds sensible.
ProKanDo gives $68,000 to Kansans for Consumer Privacy BUT Kansas Press will go nuts attacking Kline over $1.5 million from Republican State Leadership Committee, after the press ignored FOUR mailings and TWO phone calls by Tiller’s group to Kansas voters.
See report by The Lawrence Journal-World:http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2006/oct/31/pac_adds_15m_kline_bid/?elections_2006
The MP beat the Eagle to press about this story:http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/local/15890483.htm
You can see more at our page:www.maggotpunks.com/mp.html
You see Meadowlurk, the press will publish stories that you cover provided that it’s actual real news.
Is watching NFL some sort of homoeroticism for men? I mean, we’re talking about men in tights and wearing pads grabbing each other here… :)
“Why is the Kansas press afraid of telling the truth to the public? Why won’t the Kansas press protect young girls from sexual predators?”
KSM’s rhetoric is wildly out of control. Why can’t Kansans be protected from his histrionics? His truth impairedness effects the quality of life of all WEblog readers.
Good morning Steven,you know the routine.
AMERICA HELD HOSTAGE:
DAY 2110
Presidency held hostage:812 Days left.
Congress held hostage:67 Days left.
HAVE A NICE DAY.
Yeah, Steven.Meadowpoop has been downright hilarious lately.When it should be worried about the trashing of the constitution, lobbyists owning the congress, our brave troops stuck in the middle of a civil war that GW set off,etc, etc.With ALL THIS going on,what’s Meadowpoop’s BIG STORY?(like KFG says, wait for it….)
That’s right!!SNOOP DOG MAKES PHONE CALLS!!!
Oh my God. It is the end of democracy as we know it when Snoop Dog gets political.
Doug, did ya’ notice the last line of the article?If she gets elected, she’s getting a new car, ain’t that special?Maybe she will go to Disneyland too.
Tracy,Jan abidding by the law is less important than her campaigning right now. Where is Meadowlurk’s outrage on this story?
Can I get a Snoop Dog phone call?
:)
Here is a good article on Liberal Republicans.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/30/us/politics/30voices.html?ex=1319864400&en=20a11930f7bf64f1&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
Oh, nevermind, Jan’s a Republican.
Hey Willimas,How about paying up on you betting debts. Welcher.
What debts? What the hell you talking about?
Forget money.I wanna talk to Snoop Dog.
Snoop is soooo cool thatMalcolm X had a cap thatsaid SNOOP DOG on front.
I think the Zig-Zag manhas a tattoo of the Dog.
I must congradulate Meadowpoop for all the entertainment value that it has provided us here at WE blog.
Good work and KEEP BEING FUNNY.We need a laugh during this endless war.
How convenient that you forget. CapnAmerican (under a different nic) made a bet with you that we would be out of Iraq by October, 2006. You bet $50 on it. Obviously, you lose. Contact CapnAmerica. I am sure he can provide you documentation.
Remember now?
Ok! Fair is fair.
Tell CapnAmerica to e-mail me with his Paypal address. I’ll send it over.
I got a phone message from Sebelius/Morrison campaign about how Kline is seeking to get your private medical records, blah blah blah.
I listened to it, then hit erase.
I may be wrong, but, aren’t the records that Philll wants to get redacted so that personal information can’t be seen? Then they wouldn’t be personal records at all, just records of an anonymous person.Somebody set me straight.
I’d rather get a call from Flava Flave. His TV show is cool. Those girls on the show have a lot of class.
hotlick, I think what has most people upset is his denying his true motives for this unprecedented invasion of privacy.His witch hunt is fueled by religious fervor, rather than concern for actual human rights.
On the abortion clinic records, it is my understanding that having them redacted was a condition of the court who allowed him to have them. I also understand that he has never seen any of the records yet. If the latter is true, how does it square with his claims that the inquisitional records search has resulted in arrests in KS. How could he possibly know — unless he has powers of clarivoyance?
Tracy, to me, even worse than a motivation of religious fervor, is that I think the search has been undertaken as political payback to Tiller, who supported his opponent in the 2002 election; when an unknown nobody, I can’t even remember the guy’s name, nearly beat Kline. Tiller’s PAC gave the opponent something like 400K dollars.
I get it Steven.Using his position for retaliation to a completely legal act.Not so ethical huh?
Wichita Business Journal Poll on the Arena:
“If the election for a downtown arena sales tax were held today, how would you vote? (And how did you vote back then):
Voted yes then and yes now: 45%Voted Yes then and NO now: 18%Voted no then and yes now: 1%Voted no then and no now: 34%
In other words, a significant number have gone from YEA to NO. In the WBJ sample, the Arena would go DOWN 52%-46% (not sure why it doesn’t add to 100)
http://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/poll/index.html?poll_id=2108&hbx=e_du
Lots of good comments; here is one of the best:
I trusted that the developers would stick to the plan and use standard professional methods for managing the project and bringing in sponsors and events. So far, no sponsors – no naming sponsor – no events. I am also concerned about the so called “unanticipated” expenses such as access to Kellogg which was discussed at the preliminary public hearings. Parking issues are also significant. Many people will walk – others cannot or are afraid to (i.e. groups of older women who attend events together). Counting on private parking places without having contracts with the private owners is silly. Private owners are going to charge. Those who are paying for the arena, which was supposed to include a parking garage expect the parking they voted for to be there and free since they are paying for it through their tax money. The ESS payment issue is ridiculous. Undervaluing both the building/improvements and the services it performs for the community makes no sense. Paying multiple times what a property could be sold for to another buyer based on an income stream that isn’t there is also silly. Even if it is proven not to be, the whole project is beginning to look and smell like a good old boy boon doggle. The boy scouts could have done better. At least they would have been prepared.
http://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/poll/comments.html?poll_id=2108
QUOTATION OF THE DAY
“Please deliver this message. This city has suffered a lot. These are poor people. We want to reach our voice to the world.”HAIDAR SAID, a police officer, on bombings in Baghdad that killed 46 people.
tiller is just investing the future of his business by his contributions to pro-choice candidates.
Tracy,Kline has never admitted that, and never will, but it sure looks that way to me.
Also convenient for Kline is that the action also fits well with his religious agenda and the positions of his base. It was a win-win-win action for Kline. Except that some voters are queasy about the precedent those actions set. I am betting that privately Phill is regretting his over-reach at this time.
Who likes what Tiller does? But does he do medically necessary abortions? I would assume so, but I don’t have any first hand knowledge. I can’t see how Tiller would risk his ability to practice medicine by doing illegal abortions or not reporting abuse of underage girls. Such positions strain Kline’s credibility to the breaking point.
As I have said repeatedly, this is not a race between Tiller and Kline — despite how much Meadowlurk and Kline would rather we believe that is.
MIAMI HERALD:Broward Co., FL: Votes for Democrats are registering for Republicans.
Several South Florida voters say the choices they touched on the electronic screens were not the ones that appeared on the review screen — the final voting step. Election officials say they aren’t aware of any serious voting issues. But in Broward County, for example, they don’t know how widespread the machine problems are because there’s no process for poll workers to quickly report minor issues and no central database of machine problems.
Debra A. Reed voted with her boss on Wednesday at African-American Research Library and Cultural Center near Fort Lauderdale. Her vote went smoothly, but boss Gary Rudolf called her over to look at what was happening on his machine. He touched the screen for gubernatorial candidate Jim Davis, a Democrat, but the review screen repeatedly registered the Republican, Charlie Crist.continued……
BE READY FOR ANOTHER RIP-OFF IN FLA!
In fairness Ben, the poll you cite was not a scientific one. Can you see JWink voting 100 times “no” and Joe Williams voting 1001 times “yes”? I can see both things happening.
So then, it is true that the “personal” records are not personal. If one medical record looks like another because no names/addresses are used, is somebody lieing by calling them personal medical records? Isn’t that a way to frame the debate dishonestly? I don’t know Phillll’s true motives, we can only guess, but that doesn’t make lieing about the debate OK.
hotlick,
If you truly think the “women” on Flavor of Love have class, I pity the females in your life.
Anyone seen the Wichita Business Journal online survey?
The question is: If the election for a downtown arena sales tax were held today, how would you vote?
http://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/poll/index.html
So far here is the results:
I voted yes then and I’d vote yes now.45%
I voted yes then and I’d vote no now.18%
I voted no then and I’d vote yes now.1%
I voted no then and I’d vote no now.34%
Lets do some addition… The “No’s” are at about 52%
GET EVERYONE U KNOW ON THIS ONE….
I would like to put a visual on this and put an end to the debate on this site…
Steve – You are correct in that it is not scientific. However you can only vote once from an address. Also, the audience tends to be pro-arena.
We have had about a dozen votes on this issue during my time here. All but one resulted in a NO vote; often overwhelmingly. This one squeeked by. I’d like to see if the voters would affirm that choice.
RD-Don’t be a dope.
Now…back to real news and thinking people–which does not include the current administration.
The U.S. hasn’t set deadlines for the Iraqis because they fear that doing so would enable the insurgents and cause more instability? Yeah, and when has the U.S. (admin) yet been right?
Forcing Democracy on a country whose people don’t have a clue what democracy is and only understand a dictatorship, is an effort in futility. Thanks to our invasion, the country of Iraq is pretty much eating itself.
It certainly appears that the new government leaders of Iraq are a bunch of wimps. But that’s what we get for what we’ve done to that country…and continue to do.
Rumsfeld led us into a battle with no plan, expecting capitulation by flower-throwing people to do our bidding and disregarding anything told to them by those who had a clue what might happen…and did.
And you think we should listen to this bunch of mindless idiots?
hotlick,
Then I take it that your original comment was made tongue-in-cheek?
hey Steven, Quick not about the survey, you can only vote once per IP address/computer… you cant just sit at your computer all night voting.
Now, doesn’t mean i cant vote at work and at home. you are correct, its not a scientific one. But what it does show is that there is discontent toward the entire project and it should be reviewed.
IT SHOULD be enough for the news media to take a serious look and really investigate the backdoor dealings of the county, city and WDDC and we should have a serious debate about recalling the issue, or at least delaying it until someone can be appointed to run this correctly and stop wasting money and time.
Do the Dems have a plan for stabilizing Iraq? This may be it:*********************************************http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-odom31oct31,0,6123563.story?coll=la-opinion-centerHow to cut and runWe could lead the Mideast to peace, but only if we stop refusing to do the right thingBy William E. Odom, Lt. Gen. WILLIAM E. ODOM (Ret.) is a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and a professor at Yale University.October 31, 2006
THE UNITED STATES upset the regional balance in the Middle East when it invaded Iraq. Restoring it requires bold initiatives, but “cutting and running” must precede them all. Only a complete withdrawal of all U.S. troops — within six months and with no preconditions — can break the paralysis that now enfeebles our diplomacy. And the greatest obstacles to cutting and running are the psychological inhibitions of our leaders and the public.
Our leaders do not act because their reputations are at stake. The public does not force them to act because it is blinded by the president’s conjured set of illusions: that we are reducing terrorism by fighting in Iraq; creating democracy there; preventing the spread of nuclear weapons; making Israel more secure; not allowing our fallen soldiers to have died in vain; and others.
But reality can no longer be avoided. It is beyond U.S. power to prevent bloody sectarian violence in Iraq, the growing influence of Iran throughout the region, the probable spread of Sunni-Shiite strife to neighboring Arab states, the eventual rise to power of the anti-American cleric Muqtada Sadr or some other anti-American leader in Baghdad, and the spread of instability beyond Iraq. All of these things and more became unavoidable the day that U.S. forces invaded.
These realities get worse every day that our forces remain in Iraq. They can’t be wished away by clever diplomacy or by leaving our forces in Iraq for several more years.
The administration could recognize that a rapid withdrawal is the only way to overcome our strategic paralysis, though that appears unlikely, notwithstanding election-eve changes in White House rhetoric. Congress could force a stock-taking. Failing this, the public will sooner or later see through all of the White House’s double talk and compel a radical policy change. The price for delay, however, will be more lives lost in vain — the only thing worse than the lives already lost in vain.
Some lawmakers are ready to change course but are puzzled as to how to leave Iraq. The answer is four major initiatives to provide regional stability and calm in Iraq. They will leave the U.S. less influential in the region. But it will be the best deal we can get.
First, the U.S. must concede that it has botched things, cannot stabilize the region alone and must let others have a say in what’s next. As U.S. forces begin to withdraw, Washington must invite its European allies, as well as Japan, China and India, to make their own proposals for dealing with the aftermath. Russia can be ignored because it will play a spoiler role in any case.
Rapid troop withdrawal and abandoning unilateralism will have a sobering effect on all interested parties. Al Qaeda will celebrate but find that its only current allies, Iraqi Baathists and Sunnis, no longer need or want it. Iran will crow but soon begin to worry that its Kurdish minority may want to join Iraqi Kurdistan and that Iraqi Baathists might make a surprising comeback.
Although European leaders will probably try to take the lead in designing a new strategy for Iraq, they will not be able to implement it. This is because they will not allow any single European state to lead, the handicap they faced in trying to cope with Yugoslavia’s breakup in the 1990s. Nor will Japan, China or India be acceptable as a new coalition leader. The U.S. could end up as the leader of a new strategic coalition — but only if most other states recognize this fact and invite it to do so.
The second initiative is to create a diplomatic forum for Iraq’s neighbors. Iran, of course, must be included. Washington should offer to convene the forum but be prepared to step aside if other members insist.
Third, the U.S. must informally cooperate with Iran in areas of shared interests. Nothing else could so improve our position in the Middle East. The price for success will include dropping U.S. resistance to Iran’s nuclear weapons program. This will be as distasteful for U.S. leaders as cutting and running, but it is no less essential. That’s because we do share vital common interests with Iran. We both want to defeat Al Qaeda and the Taliban (Iran hates both). We both want stability in Iraq (Iran will have influence over the Shiite Iraqi south regardless of what we do, but neither Washington nor Tehran want chaos). And we can help each other when it comes to oil: Iran needs our technology to produce more oil, and we simply need more oil.
Accepting Iran’s nuclear weapons is a small price to pay for the likely benefits. Moreover, its nuclear program will proceed whether we like it or not. Accepting it might well soften Iran’s support for Hezbollah, and it will definitely undercut Russia’s pernicious influence with Tehran.
Fourth, real progress must be made on the Palestinian issue as a foundation for Middle East peace. The invasion of Iraq and the U.S. tilt toward Israel have dangerously reduced Washington’s power to broker peace or to guarantee Israel’s security. We now need Europe’s help. And good relations with Iran would help dramatically.
No strategy can succeed without these components. We must cut and run tactically in order to succeed strategically. The United States needs to restore its reputation so that its capacity to lead constructively will cost us less.
I wrote quite some time ago how this would happen, just as it did in ‘Nam.Like Colbert says:I CALLED IT!!!
“About the last thing the United States ought to be doing in Iraq is funneling weapons into black-market weapons bazaars.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/31/opinion/31tue1.html?th&emc=th
“you cant just sit at your computer all night voting.
I did not know that Tony, thanks for correcting me. It is hard to see how over-voting would be much of a problem with the survey. And you’re right, it makes the results that much more interesting.
John Kerry speaks his mind:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o
Ok! Fair is fair.
Tell CapnAmerica to e-mail me with his Paypal address. I’ll send it over.
Posted by: Joe Williams | October 31, 2006 at 07:23 AM
Thank you, Joe.
Here’s the contact info–
http://www.wichitapeace.org/
PEACE AND SOCIAL JUSTICE CENTER of South Central Kansas1407 N. TopekaWichita, KS 67214-1107
Phone/Fax: (316) 263-5886e-mail: staff@wichitapeace.orgweb: http://www.wichitapeace.org
They don’t have pay-pal, but you can mail them a check c/o Horace Santry.
John K is taken out of context and given a misleading title on boob tube.A little late and quite desparate to try to swift boat Kerry now.
And irrelevent.
Lame, really lame.
“So then, it is true that the “personal” records are not personal. If one medical record looks like another because no names/addresses are used, is somebody lieing by calling them personal medical records? Isn’t that a way to frame the debate dishonestly? I don’t know Phillll’s true motives, we can only guess, but that doesn’t make lieing about the debate OK.”
Let’s go one step even further, Mr. Hotlick. If Kline has no way to tie a record to a patient, how could they ever be useful in prosecuting any crimes he might discover??? This scenario would be like banks being required to blank out the faces of any bank robbers they record holding up their establishments. Makes no sense.
My view is that the inquisition of records is not about “crimes”. It is retaliation against Tiller and a hope to have a chilling effect on patients using Tiller’s services. An inquisition in the absence of probable cause. A political agenda that my tax dollars (and yours, too, Hotlick) are paying for. Not a thing that I want to see continued, and thus my advance vote against Kline.
You are really parsing words on “personal” records. The whole idea that someone could get my records regardless of the degree redaction is the first step down a slippery slope that I don’t wish to see. I voted accordingly and I hope reasonable others will as well.
Damned commendable of ya’ Capn.You eee-ville peace mongering lib.
Great points Steven.And I do believe this is like the KS science standards, i.e, this is a phony “hot button” issue that covers up the real agenda of the RR.
Iraqi leaders beginning to stand up:
U.S. obeys order to abandon checkpointsSINAN SALAHEDDINAssociated PressBAGHDAD, Iraq – U.S. troops on Tuesday abandoned checkpoints around the Shiite militia stronghold of Sadr City on orders from Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, the latest in a series of moves by the Iraqi leader to assert his authority with the U.S. administration.
The U.S. military announced the deaths of two soldiers in fighting in the Baghdad area on Monday, one from small arms fire, the other from a roadside bomb. Those brought the number of troops killed in Iraq this month to 103.
U.S. forces disappeared from the checkpoints within hours of the order to remove the around-the-clock barriers by 5:00 p.m. (1400 GMT), setting off celebrations among civilians and armed men gathered on the edge of the sprawling slum that is under the control of the Mahdi Army militia run by radical anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
Iraqi troops loaded coils of barbed wire and red traffic cones onto pickup trucks, while small groups of men and children danced in circles chanting slogans praising al-Sadr, who earlier Tuesday had ordered the area closed to the Iraqi government until U.S. troops lifted what he called their “siege” of the neighborhood.
Maybe they will next order us to leave their country entirely.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/breaking_news/15887847.htm
Welcome back SM.I can be just as civil as you.Honest debate about issues, oK?
Ready, set, GO!!
Ben, we can only hope and pray that he orders us to leave.
Medical records, even “redacted”, can be tied to a patient. Height, weight, age, gender, etc. With some work someone could tie them together. That is why the federal government passed HIPPA.
Snoop Dog for Secretary of State.A few blunts at the peace summit,then they can all hit the buffet bar.
“With some work someone could tie them together.”
Ben,It is hard for me to see how something like this could be very easy or practical. Tiller’s patients come from all over the U.S., and maybe even from foreign countries, due to him being one of the few physicians who does late term abortions. It would seem like such a matching effort would be, literally, like looking for a needle in a haystack.
But Ben, I think the more interesting point from your post, is the question: Has Kline been allowed to violate HIPPA? Unfortunately I don’t know as much as I should about that law. And, wouldn’t a Federal law take precedent over a state ruling?
Republicans are Pro-Choice!
http://www.republicansforchoice.com/
RAY, That is great news.Now if we could just get them to support embryonic stem cell research, they might actually seem like logical reasonable people.
Well it looks like Jan Beemer is Jan Busted!! Take this one off the GOP pick up list. Judy Loganbill just won a 4th term!!
Are people who support late term abortion reasonable people?When I am King, there will only be 3 months to have an abortion. After that, health of the mother only. No Mental health “I won’t be able to fit into my prom dress and that will make me a mental case” type exceptions.
hotlick – I am inclined to agree with you. I might also include some other horrible health-type exceptions (anencephaly for example)
Hotlick,
Now you are arguing a whole different issue. But, I figured you were doing that anyway.
There are restrictions on late term abortion. I expect there will be more as time passes.
If my daughter’s or my wife’s life was in danger because of a pregnancy, while I would not like the idea of an abortion, I would prefer that outcome over their death. I don’t know the figures on the frequency of potentially fatal pregnancies, but I am guessing it would be very rare condition.
I don’t want to be a King, nor do I want to put myself up as the final arbiter of what other people should do with their lives. Since there will never be a chance that I will get pregnant, it would seem especially arrogant of me to foist my views of abortion onto other people. I think there is now, and there will be more in the future, an awakening amongst the populace as to this problem that the Republicans have.
Ben,
I think I agree with the anecephaly condition (that would be like the fetus having no brain, correct?).
Maybe I am crazy, but I don’t think there are many people around who hold the position that “every abortion that could occur, definitely MUST occur.”
Also, I don’t think an abortion is something most women do or consider lightly like HL’s prom dress example would suggest.
The catholic church has recently stated that their theologians have found data to suggest that unbaptized babies will be admitted into heaven, rather than the now-defunct concept of “limbo.”
Therefore, let Tiller and his ilk, and the mothers that choose this route contend with God, not you acting as an extension of him. I’m sure God would appreciate people not attempting to apply his authority without his permission.
My wife is currently pregnant. I’m pro-choice, but I’m not scheduling an appointment with Tiller. I’m CHOOSING to have a child.
I fear a society where the Christian Right’s choice is the only choice.
Good post, postal. Congrats, fatherhood is an interesting experience.
This from the A.P.http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/15893828.htm
An except:”WASHINGTON – President Bush is expected to make a last-minute trip to Kansas this weekend to help boost the re-election hopes of Republican Rep. Jim Ryun, according to state GOP officials.
“An e-mail message sent Monday from the Kansas Republican Party to GOP candidates around the state said Bush would lead a rally for Ryun on Sunday in Topeka. The message, obtained by The Associated Press, said the White House wants as many GOP candidates as possible on stage with the president.”
Is it not an incredibly weird year when Republican candidates in Kansas have to be told they need to be on stage with a Republican president? This is so very strange.
postal – congrats! You will have lots of fun!
Kerry’s statement is amazing; truly amazing. However, while Limbaugh’s statement (stupid and cruel as it was) got the full treatment here and elsewhere in the media, Kerry’s (the same Kerry that voted FOR regime change in Iraq, BTW) is ignored. Gosh – why is that?
And Tracy, you say it’s out of context. Go ahead, supply a context. Try to find one where that statement isn’t every bit as insulting and condescending as it sounds. I’ll wait.
Just saw the Kerry U-boob clip Well, it’s true, isn’t it?
John Kerry, the gift that keeps on giving. And you folks keep saying how stupid Bush is……
I thought Kerry’s reference to study or get stuck in Iraq was to BUSH, not the soldiers. After all, if Bush had learned a little bit about the region he would have known that Iraq was an ethnic powder keg waiting to explode. And that an invasion would result in quagmire. HISS DADDY KNEW THAT!
Quote of the Day:
“They hate all humanity,except their fellow Jews,” Tacitus
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!
Well, I know that saying Kerry’s comment was about Bush and not the soldiers was one of Kerry’s explainations….but I didn’t expect anyone to actually think that for real.
I didn’t see Kerry’s explanations. All I did was read the original comment.
GMC70, Ben beat me to my reply.I can’t do any better, but I could add that Kerry is not in the running.So please, don’t vote for him.
The only way to get liberals to support the war in Iraq is to invade Iran!
When we went to Afghanistan it was a quagmire, troops were being killed, we were awful occupiers…
Now Afghanistan is the only war the liberals seem to agree with.
So… if we invade Iran, then that would be all the names liberals love to use and they would agree with Iraq.
“those unable to navigate the country’s education system “get stuck in Iraq.”"
Sounds to me like a comment on our coke-addled CiC; not the troops.
Breaking News! I just heard a speach by Kerry that he was in Vietnam!
Ben:
If so, I’ll take back my comment. Show me. The Chicago Tribune’s column on the comments mentions no such context. MSNBC’s comments mention no such context, though a “source close to Kerry” (AKA staff spinner) insists that Kerry misspoke.
But no, no misspeak. Kerry was speaking about education, urging students to navigate the educational system or . . . , well, you know the rest.
http://www.whittierdailynews.com/news/ci_4577791
Context this one, Tracy.
I don’t think Kerry can spin his way out of this one. And just where is the media in this one?
Nathan – for the record – I supported going into Afghanistan AT THE TIME WE DID IT! Not only in retrospect.
YOU might think that invading Iran would make me and others support the occupation of Iraq; if you do then you have been out in the desert sun without a hat WAY too long!
As for Afghanistan today I am very concerned that we are dropping the ball there and that our victory is slipping away.
Nathan,That has got to be the dumbest thing I’ve read on this blog all day!
“Kerry then told the students that if they were able to navigate the education system, they could get comfortable jobs – “If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq,” he said to a mixture of laughter and gasps.”
I guess the question is who got us “stuck” in Iraq. I submit that it was Bush who did that.
I first read the words from Tony Snow’s remarks about it ” The White House accused Sen. John Kerry on Tuesday of troop-bashing, seizing on a comment the Democrat made to California students that those unable to navigate the country’s education system “get stuck in Iraq.”" and I had then also concluded that Kerry’s target was the CiC not the troops.
I’d have to agree.
I’d have to agree with Will.
Tracy,
Ive been meaning to ask you for quite some time about this:
What exactly do you mean when you say
“I’ll be your Huckleberry?”
Is that a reference to the Mark Twain book or just the character? I don’t get it.
Spin controllers: On your mark, get set, GO!
Nathan, I also supported going into Afghanistan. I thought (and still do) that Iraq was diverting resources from the primary goal: to get the people who attacked us. and if you take a look at what happened at Tora Bora, where the military and CIA commanders on the ground say OBL was at the time, we blew it by trying to pawn off the job on the warlords.
Sometimes the truth hurts.
Well, I’m no Tracy, but I believe the “Huckleberry” reference is saying “Take me on. Fight me” …basically that. It was in that Tombstone movie where I think most people remember that reference from.
Come on Ben,
Even you aren’t that stupid…or do you think we are?
Hank
Kerry bleated about Saddam being a threat and he voted for the war, despite later claiming to be agianst it! As such, the lowlife has an ownership satke in this thing and he should have kept his filthy mouth shut!
I despise the shrub regime and I have always been aginst this war for big oil and the zionists. But, I was an officer and as a combat veteran I am disgusted by these remarks. This is much worse than what pudgy said about MJF.
V.L.R.B!!
Actually Ben, they are quite the sticklers for us always wearing a cover when we are outside :)
I’ve said before, Iraq was a huge strategic blunder, and has been poorly managed on top of it. Going into Iran would only amplify that blunder.
Our men and women there are, however, just the opposite of how Kerry characterizes them. I think you’ll find, with a little research, that in fact our soldiers are on average better educated than their counterparts in civilian life.
But Ben, as Hank said, you’re not that stupid. Kerry said what he said. No amount of post-comment spinning will change it. It was an incredibly dumb thing to say. It’s also appears to be downplayed by the MSM.
And Tracy, Limbaugh’s not running either.
GMC – I read the words, both as reported by Snow and direct. Obviously I interpret them diffeently then you do. Kerry did NOT characterize our troops as dumb; he characterized Bush that way. It was Bush who did the “huge strategic blunder, and has been poorly managed on top of it. Going into Iran would only amplify that blunder.”
The Cook Political Report just moved the Ryun/Boyda race to Lean Republican to Toss Up…GO BOYDA!
Nathan,Stop trying to make it sound as if there are no Democrats fighting beside you. Do your Democrat comrades-in-arms know how much you despise them?
The supposedly “liberal” media is the spin here. They are reporting ONE remark.
Reportedly Kerry had cracked several jokes about bush prior to this one remark. I’ve no doubt that this was another jab at bush and he simply mis spoke.
Perhaps, JR. If so, let’s see it. I’ve been looking, haven’t found it. His comments, as reported, were in context to the rest of his statement.
I’m afraid he said what he said.
Will,
When I do come across anyone who actually believes half the crap thrown around here, then yeah, I’ll let them know.
I don’t despise Democrats. The word I used was liberals.
Fortunatley for me, about 90 percent of the people I meet here are not liberals and don’t agree with half the crap said here.
He said what he said – which was that if you don’t learn anything you would get stuck in Iraq. Bush never learned anything; now we are stuck in Iraq.
Boy the Republicans are REALLY desperate to make so much out of nothing.
The moron Rush is calling Kerry’s gaffe “Christmas at Halloween.” This after HE domonstrated that he (Rush) is the very dregs of humanity with his attack on Michael J Fox.
Hannity is apopleptic! “I demand that every single Democrat renounce Senator Kerry!”
Spin and lie and cover up the truth.
Worst times and worst administration in history. Disaster in Iraq. And the right is worried about one statement. Sad and illustrative.
Spin?? Imagine that Congress was working on a multi-billion military funding bill — and the president (the CiC) threatened to VETO the bill because he didn’t like it.
Later, when a different version of the bill was guaranteed to pass, a Senator made a protest vote against it.
During the next campaign, the president (and his party) viciously attacked the Senator, saying his vote proved he did not support our troops.
That actually happened. A more accurate (and humorous) rewrite of an attack on Kerry.
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh071604.shtml“BUSH: No, he’s entitled to his view, but here’s mine: Members of Congress should not vote to send troops into battle and then vote against funding them. (Applause.)
Of course, as the Commander-in-Chief of this great military, I said I would VETO the $87 billion, if it passed in a form I didn’t like.”
Hmmm, I’m so disappointed…
Here I thought Kerry played Herman Munster on TV. Come to find out, he’s some sort of speaker that visits colleges.
The link below is to a piece on the ABC News website which raises an interesting question: in blogging, do posters perhaps provided too much information, whether alone or as a group which would allow the “enemy” access to information helpful to it; and, if so, what is the appropriate oversight necessary to prevent it from happening.
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=2616206&page=1
I wonder how the line is to be found, for, as pointed out by the reporter, often the bloggers provide the “good news” about what is going on in Iraq, which is allegedly being ignored by the MSM. It is my sense that the Pentagon loses, no matter what. What say you?
Apparently Todd Tiahrt just told KSN news that he didn’t feel a debate served his best interests. That running commercials did.
So to all of those bloggers out there that have been wanting a tiahrt mcginn debate, forget it.
Your interests don’t count.
KSN news wants to know why there will be no Tiarht MC Ginn debate.
Guess Tiahrts response was nothing but arrogant and self serving.
McGinn will be on KSN news at 6:00.
Here’s the CONTEXT,
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/news/ci_4578034“Kerry charmed the crowd with tales of surfing at Mission Beach and got laughs for a series of one liners, including telling the crowd he had just returned from Texas, “Where the president used to live – now he lives in a state of denial.” ”
It’s logical the next thing he said was meant to be a joke.
‘Kerry says he “botched joke” and lashes out at GOP’http://www.boston.com/news/globe/city_region/breaking_news/2006/10/kerry_says_he_b.html
What impression would the youtube clip have, if it included all of his earlier jokes?
We can throw Kerry to the lions.He’s not running anyway.
Funny thing about name calling Nathan, you have used the label Liberals attached to Democrats and never once meant that in a positive manner.
Tiarht will not even bother to debate McGinn because why? Is the process of democracy beneath Tiarht? Or is because he really does not want to face a crowd where questions will be asked and he will have to answer them?
I’m sure Tiarht will win again but his power will be stripped if the Democrats take over the House. Tiarht had better be nice to the people that he walked all over to climb to the top because he might just be on his way back down again.
While I would welcome a debate between Mr. Tiahrt and Mr. McGinn, it won’t happen, for all the legitmate political considerations already pointed out on other threads earlier. Why should an incumbent, with all the built in advantages of the incumbency, give an underfunded, unknown challenger any free publicity? We might not like it, but this is the real world of politics.
You will notice Lucee that when Nathan speaks of liberals and democrats he uses the exact words. Unlike the liberals and democrats that use words like republikan, repukes, nazi, etc., etc., and so on and so forth.
I can think of dozens of names that the dems and libs commonly substitue for republican, conservative and Christian on this BLOG and what you come up with is:
“Funny thing about name calling Nathan, you have used the label Liberals attached to Democrats and never once meant that in a positive manner.”
It’s not his fault dear, he was raised to question ignorance.
His Pa,
No we do NOT have to just accept it Vaughn!
There are debates going on all over this country. There are many incumbents who are debating challengers to their office. That is how our political process is SUPPOSED to work.
Tiahrt has thumbed his nose at that process and his constituents. He will get an email from me every single day until he sends me a legitimate reason why.
Good question VT. Why DID Sebelius give Barnett free publicity? Courage perhaps?
Congrats Vaughn!
The very fact that poor ol’ Garth is the democratic candidate is proof that the dems doon’t wish to contest the 4th district of Kansas in a serious manner.
You can’t find fault with Tiahrt not taking his opponent seriously.
Hank
<39%
He doesn’t want to debate because he is ashamed of his record, and ashamed of the do nothing congress, meanwhile, he lets bush get away with what ever he wants.
JR,
Did Tiahrt’s flunky really tell you to pack up and move to a liberal state?
V.L.R.B!!
I don’t know, JR. I know of no legal, constitutional, or electoral rule which requires debates. If I were in Tiahart’s shoes, I’d not debate either. Why should I? What possible advantage do I gain by doing so?
We migh wish for a debate. We might hope for one. But the goal here for candidates is to win. This is real politics, not the civics book world. And debating (or not) is simply a tactical decision, like any other.
It appears that he gave a legitimate reason to KSN: debating is not in his political interests. You may not like that answer, and you may vote against him because of it, but it’s an honest answer. Welcome to the real world.
Ben, I am not an advisor to the Governor; I surmise she felt it advantageous to debate Dr. Barnett for the purpose of highlighting their differences. IIRC, the early Rasmussen (state-wide) polls had that race much tighter than it currently polls; confidence, perhaps?
Yes Ian
Chuck Knapp told me that if I wanted representation in the congress, I should move to the district of the candidate of my choice.
Note for a lesson for MY son.
1. “The guy with the most money wins.” That is the REPUBLICAN way anyway
2. “It is like I’ve always told ya Nathan. Republicans are evil. They do not care about you. They do not care about America or its traditions. They care only about themselves and their power. They are to be despised and fought.
3 Republicans feel themselves above you. They owe you no answers! What they say and do is right ……just because…NOT
4 Given the above three, as long as Republicans are in power you owe this country no loyalty and I strongly encourage you to avoid military service. In it current state, America is NOT worth fighing for.
Is that the lesson I should teach him GMC?
The Gov is a Democrat in a Republican state. She comes off well, the state is doing well, she needs to debate.Tiahart would have to defend Iraq and that is not easy. He’s way(?) ahead in the polls. No need to debate. It’s just smart politics. If enough folks don’t like it, he will pay. (He won’t)
Kerry’s comment was pure jackassery.
As much as I’d like to, I can’t think of anyway to spin that; in the context it sounds suspiciously like “Only the uneducated with no other options join the military…”
But, like Tracy said, Kerry’s not running.
Hank, I have to say that I’ve seen many more examples of “so-called conservatives” using slurs as opposed to liberals. Hotlick is a prime example. There are others. But hey, keep your head firmly buried in the sand, ok?
I’m gonna write Tiahrt and ask him what I should tell my son. Tiahrt owes it to tell us why he despises MOST of his constituents and our political traditions.
Wonder if tiarht will go to any halloween costume parties tonight…
A chicken would serve him best.
dave s-Show me where I have used slurs.tara-Kerry is not running, but he was you people’s candidate for prez.It really shows the libs contempt for the armed forces.”I support our troops, but not their mission”Double speak hogwash
Primitive Art Cartoon Satire -”The Political Landscape”
http://mccluer.name/political%20scene.jpg
Kerry has nothing to apologise for!
“If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they’re crazy. This is the classic G.O.P. playbook. I’m sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did.
I’m not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox’s Parkinson’s disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq . It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have.
The people who owe our troops an apology are George W. Bush and Dick Cheney who misled America into war and have given us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals, killed and maimed our soldiers, and widened the terrorist threat instead of defeating it. These Republicans are afraid to debate veterans who live and breathe the concerns of our troops, not the empty slogans of an Administration that sent our brave troops to war without body armor.
Bottom line, these Republicans want to debate straw men because they’re afraid to debate real men. And this time it won’t work because we’re going to stay in their face with the truth and deny them even a sliver of light for their distortions. No Democrat will be bullied by an administration that has a cut and run policy in Afghanistan and a stand still and lose strategy in Iraq .”
C’mon, JR, you’re not that niave.
POLITICIANS care about power. Power is what the game is all about. Thus, the first and primary rule of politics – WIN. Anything else is a tactical call, within the applicable rules. That applies for BOTH parties. We are free to criticize those tactical decisions, and to vote accordingly. But realize the decisions for what they are.
“the one with the most money wins”If I remember a study I once read correctly (yes, I know the risk of saying it this way), that is true, and is true across party lines. The conclusion of the study was that the single strongest correlator to winning was spending the most money. Sad it may be, but it’s reality.
And yes, JR, teach that son to have his eyes open to the real world now. All of it. Just try to keep your own open as well. We all wear rose-colored glasses, to a certain extent, me too. Try to peel yours back occasionally. The world is not that black and white.
Dave S:
Yes, Kerry’s statement is a nice piece of political spin. He changed the subject.
dave s-This is the same guy who testified against his comrades in Congress after Viet Nam. It’s what got the swift boat guys so mad. He spent one sentence trying to blow off what he said. Go to school, learn, do your homework, get smart, so you don’t end up in Iraq.He said it!He said it, period.
Kerry has learned from the Clinton’s well. Attack the critics. He could have gone another way by apologizing some how or another and letting it all blow over.One sentence defense. Humbug!
“I don’t despise Democrats. The word I used was liberals.
“Fortunatley for me, about 90 percent of the people I meet here are not liberals and don’t agree with half the crap said here.”
Wrong again, Nathan.
I am a liberal. Well, actually I’m a radical = a liberal who actual does something about it.
But liberal is close enough.
I’d put CF, Doug, JR, Steven D., Tracy, cosmos, .morg, CR, RD, political_mom, Tara, lucee, KSFRMGRRL and Roo Rah in that category too (not that we all agree on everything, of course).
We refuse to let Rush Limbaugh define “liberal” anymore.
Liberal means to believe that we’re all in this together, that some problems are so big that only government is big enough to solve them, that treating people well creates a good society.
As John F. Kennedy said in 1960, “For liberalism is not so much a party creed or set of fixed platform promises as it is an attitude of mind and heart, a faith in man’s ability through the experiences of his reason and judgment to increase for himself and his fellow men the amount of justice and freedom and brotherhood which all human life deserves.”
This is the key difference between conservative and liberal. The conservative worships the old. He has benefitted from the status quo, and he must maintain it. Tradition is everything.
Facts and empiricism must be bent to the will of dogma in this world view.
The liberal is pragmatic. We believe that conclusions should follow from facts and not the other way around.
Jonathan Chait writes, “The contrast between economic liberalism and economic conservatism, then, ultimately lies not only in different values or preferences but in different epistemologies. Liberalism is a more deeply pragmatic governing philosophy–more open to change, more receptive to empiricism, and ultimately better at producing policies that improve the human condition–than conservatism.
“Now, liberalism’s pragmatic superiority wouldn’t matter to a true ideological conservative any more than news about the medical benefits of pork (to pick an imaginary example) would cause a strictly observant Jew to begin eating ham sandwiches. But, if you have no particular a priori preference about the size of government and care only about tangible outcomes, then liberalism’s aversion to dogma makes it superior as a practical governing philosophy.”
Of course, conservatives hate science. For the scientific method is the way liberals think.
FInal thoughts (for now ) as it is almost time for trick or treating.
Interesting experiment here. I am going keep track of the houses along our way. I bet more houses with Democrat signs give out candy and the GOP signed houses are mostly dark. We will see if I am right.
GMC. You can call me an idealist if you like. MY idea of a representative is Jimmy Stewarts character in “Mr. Smith Goes to Washington”
Tiahrt is SUPPOSED to be a Representative. Clearly we have learned that he represents…..only HIS best interests and not his constituents. I say he should answer for that.
“Real world” Maybe. I always thought the world is what we make it.
Sure Capn. blah blah blahIs it the libs who think I’m smart enough to go to a casino with my money, but too stupid to invest a small part of MY money into a voluntary SS account?Is it the libs who thinks it’s OK to take a child who is8-15/16 months old and kill it, but won’t kill a man who has raped and murdered?Is it the libs who think we are too stupid to conceal/carry, but leave us defenseless against the ones who conceal/carry illegally?Is it the libs who want tore-distribute other peoples money?Eat me.
Primitive Art Cartoon Satire -”The Political Landscape”
Sorry, JM, your others have been better than this one.
Hotlick–
Anger issues, eh?
You might want to get help for that.
What I wrote is all true.The “eat me” was uncalled for,BUT I have nothing to apologize for [please insert lame ass Kerry speech from today]What I wrote is all true.
Tara,
“in the context it sounds suspiciously like “Only the uneducated with no other options join the military…” ”
The context was he’d just told a joke critical of Bush.
The army DOES recruit high school dropouts.http://www.armytimes.com/print.php?f=0-ARMYPAPER-1115401.php
The speech was at a college, so the audience had at least a high school education.
Kerry said: “If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq”.
People “join” and “serve”, they don’t get “stuck”.
Our troops did not get themselves (and us) “stuck” there — they’ve done, and are doing the best they can under the circumstances.
Well, Hotlicker, what you wrote was in fact, all false.
1. Liberals tend to favor gun control–that’s not the elimination of guns or blanket opposition to concealed carry. I for one think that rifles and pistols should be “fingerprinted” so they can be traced in random shootings.
2. The “privatizing” of Social Security is an attempt by the Bush administration to destroy the most popular and successful government program ever created. Liberals oppose privatization because it’s stupid and hurts society.
It’s not “social security reform”–private accounts are what we had before we had social security and why social security was invented.
This is the neo-con attempt to destroy what they’ve always hated: a big gov’t program that works to improve society.
3. Partial birth abortions. Yes, I support them. Because there’s no reason any sentient being would carry a baby almost to term and then want to dispose of it UNLESS it had some serious medical problem that would render it unviable and dangerous to deliver.
Complications from pregnancy are a common form of death for women. I support anything that a woman and her doctor believe will reduce that risk.
4. It’s the rapture right who want to limit your access to a casino, not me.
5. As far as “redistributing people’s money,” that’s what taxes are. The gov’t takes your and my money and spends it on roads, the military, schools, police, fire, etc. etc.
The question is not whether you’re for or against it, because it must be done to live in a civilized society.
The question is whether it will be used to benefit society by helping poor people, say, or wasted by throwing it a big government contractors like we’re doing in Iraq right now.
I OPPOSE WELFARE: welfare for Halliburton, welfare for Blackwater, welfare for Bechtold, etc.–all the big corporations making 400 million dollars a WEEK that we’re blowing in Iraq with no oversight or accounting.
This from a Reuter’s article about Kerry’s words:
“While campaigning in California, Kerry told a college crowd on Monday: ‘You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.’
“Kerry’s office released his prepared remarks, which said, “Do you know where you end up if you don’t study, if you aren’t smart, if you’re intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush.’”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061031/pl_nm/usa_politics_kerry_dc_3
If this omission is true, I am not real impressed with Kerry’s joke writers. I am guessing that he actually just said a numb skull thing. I think the president and other Republicans ought to focus on this as much as they can. Defending their records has got to be much more difficult.
“This is the neo-con attempt to destroy what they’ve always hated: a big gov’t program that works to improve society.”
Greg Palast has also made the point that Bush is likely raiding social security funds and wishes to not pay them back. The party of responsibility, remember?
Capn-We are not done.Halloween calls.
“but too stupid to invest a small part of MY money into a voluntary SS account?”
You are free to invest in your retirement now. In fact, if you ever hope to retire, you have to.
Social Secuirty is a safety net for poor-elderly and disabled people. You guys really need to find somebody else to pick on.
2,4,6,8, todd tiahrt won’t debate
WICHITA, Kansas, Oct 31, 2006 — There is just one week to go before voters head to the polls. Through ads and debates, we’ve gotten a chance to know many of the candidates. But in the race for the Fourth Congressional District seat, which includes Wichita, there’s only one recognizable face; six-term Congressman Todd Tiahrt. That fact has left his opponent full of frustration.
Throughout this election season, we’ve seen spirited debates between Kansas politicians. Occasionally, nasty has replaced spirited when it comes to describing what’s happened up on stage.
But there have been no exchanges between Congressional Representative Todd Tiahrt and his democratic opponent, Garth McGinn.
“It’s what the voters of the Fourth Congressional District deserve. I think, especially given the magnitude of what’s going wrong in Washington, I think the voters deserve to know what their congressman intends to do about it. By the same token, deserve to know what I would do about it if I was there congressman.”
McGinn doesn’t blame Tiahrt, the rookie politician says he should have been more proactive in seeking a debate. Nevertheless he’s frustrated about not having been able to square off against the congressman.
Reresentaive Tiahrt said he thinks Garth McGinn is a bright guy with good ideas but that debating McGinn would not be a beneficial way to spend his time.
“I’ve spent time getting my information out and I have a very full schedule so I haven’t scheduled anything like that today,” said Tiahrt.
Meanwhile, the race between Tiahrt and McGinn has drawn a bit of national attention. Esquire Magazine, a liberal publication endorsing McGinn, said, “Tiahrt took money from tom Delay, gave money to Tom Delay, voted twice for House rules to protect Tom Delay and steadfastly defended Tom Delay, even after Delay’s indictment.”
McGinn says his criticism of Tiahrt doesn’t stop there.
“We have a lot of things going wrong in Washington that we need to get fixed. We’re dumping $9 million of debt on our kids [and] we’ve got the war in Iraq on the top of everyone’s list.”
“I respect that he has views that are significantly different than mine,” said Tiahrt. “And I think the clarity that I put in my advertising, in my appearances and the information I’ve put out talks about the record I’ve done and the vision I have for the future.”
Regarding that Esquire Magazine endorsement, a Tiahrt spokesperson says Tom Delay has not been convicted yet and that some of the charges have even been dropped. The spokesperson pointed out that republican-backed rules also forced Delay to step down so there’s nothing here to hide.
Story Created: Oct 31, 2006 at 6:19 PM CST
Story Updated: Oct 31, 2006 at 6:27 PM C
Who is Hotlick’s source on the “Al Gore brought you Willie Horton” mantra? None other than paragon of truth and objectivity, Sean Hannity.
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh110102.shtml
Gives ya an idea of who we are listening to, people.
Captn,Our President Bush proposed a combination of a government funded program and personal accounts through partial privatization of the SS system. The personal accounts could be invested various managed investment funds similar to the government employees’ Thrift Savings Plan, in which the investor can choose between Treasury Bills, Corporate Bonds and a stock market fund. This means I would control my money, which you democrats don’t want to have happen. SS is an unsustainable entitlement programs that need to be reformed now not later. There was no attempt to even suggested that Social Security be eliminated, that is your misconception. Which is true about everything else you stated, a total misconception.
This is too enjoyable to keep to myself. You KNOW you are a victim when the vast right AND left conspiracies collude to undermine you.
“The way [Katherine] Harris sees it, a vast left- and right-wing conspiracy, encompassing both the “liberal media” and the Republican “elite,” is attempting to keep her out of the Senate. She says anyone could see the way the panel of questioners coddled Nelson at their debate last week. Her voice gets all high and mocking as she imitates them.”
Whole article here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/30/AR2006103001311.html
Highly recommend it. It is quite the knee slapper.
Sorry, gotta share more from the above link:
“Perhaps the worst blow to Harris’s campaign has been the stories that have emerged from former staffers. They describe a Jekyll-and-Hyde candidate who can be seductively charming at one moment and pitch a temper tantrum the next, throwing a cellphone at a wall or a sheaf of papers at a campaign manager. Former chief adviser Ed Rollins, who managed Ronald Reagan’s reelection to the White House in 1984, said working for Harris was like ‘being in insanity camp.’ He likened her staff to dogs that have been kicked.”
Harris is writing a “tell-all” book about her mistreatment from so many. I know I’ll have tears in my eyes as I read it. Tears of laughter most likely.
Guss,
I’m not an expert on privatizing SS like you seem to be.
Would you please point out any errors and/or falsehoods in these arguments against privatizing? Thank you.
‘Twelve Reasons Why Privatizing Social Security is a Bad Idea’http://www.socsec.org/publications.asp?pubid=503
‘Is There a Social Security Crisis?’http://zfacts.com/p/784.html
Thanks for the links cosmos.
Steve, that was TOO funny!
Steve Davis,
Yeah, the humor in the toon was kind of convoluted, not a good thing since most people only spend a few seconds looking at them.
Botched joke my ass. This is the direct quote:
“You know, education – if you make the most of it – you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq,” he said.
Translation?You’re stupid if you are serving in the military.
I don’t see the President or his “failed policy” anywhere near that quote.
Liberals who were so sure and arrogant of taking back the house have got to be losing control of bodily functions of this one. It’s the true colors of the party coming out. Arrogant arrogant arrogant SOB’s.Lots of conservatives were going to sit this one out and one of your poster boys just revigorized the right.
See you at the polls.
Kia?
Oh come now!
You do not read carefully. The entire context of Kerry’s gaffe is revealed upthread. This is a one day story nothing more. The right is latching onto it because it is the first “traction” they’ve had in months.
” I don’t see the President or his “failed policy” anywhere near that quote”
No? How about 3 thousand American soldiers are dead and Iraq is permanently broken because of weapons of mass destruction that did not exist? How about bush at a party showing pictures of him looking under rugs and furniture say “No no weapons of mass destruction there!”
Perspective Kia. Perspective. This little mis speak of Kerrys is NOTHING compared to the most failed administration in history.
By the way my Halloween “poll” is complete. Houses giving out treats that have Democrat signs in the yard? 14
Houses giving out candy with Republican signage? DRUM ROLL PLEASE!
1
What an unfun boring lot you Republicans are. Little wonder you make mountains outta molehills.
See YOU at the polls. Just count the votes fair is all I ask.
KIA–
He meant that Bush isn’t smart, didn’t educate himself, and now we’re stuck in Iraq.
That’s what he meant.
Period.
John Kerry is a liar and a cheat. He is a hiss and a byword even among Liberals. He gave the Republicans the 2004 election because many people voted against Kerry instead of for Bush.
I come from a family just filled to the brim with idiots. My grandfather (1st generation German) enlisted in the U.S. Navy to fight the Kaiser. My father enlisted in the Navy to fight in the Pacific during WWII. My three uncles also fought in WWII.
To show my incredible stupidity I married a sailor who served in the Indian Ocean during the 1980’s and who went face to face with the USSR during the KAL007 mess. His father, uncles and brother all also served in the military.
My children who have graduated high school have done so with honors. I graduate Cum Laude from college with a degree in history.
My apologies to Mr. Kerry for being so imbecilic in raising good, intelligent, faithful citizens. I also apologize for members of my family who did not lie or cheat to get out of service or who claimed to be more valiant that they were. I also apologize to his family because they can’t point to his service with pride as I can to mine.
Maybe he can use my example and apologize to the 70 percent of Americans he offended.OrMaybe he can do all America a favor and leave the country. I hear France is looking for a Minister of Dimmitude, maybe we could get PBS to do a fund raiser to pay his moving expenses.
I took Kerry’s comment that if one is lucky enough to get into college, they have a better chance of getting a job and won’t have to enlist in the military. That’s all it meant to me.
Let’s face it folks, the real soldiers in Vietnam were the less educated young males that did not get into college. And the same thing appears to be happening again, especially if we have to send over even more troops that we don’t have!
But Bush and his cronies are so desperate to hang onto anything that will help them in this time of desperation, they are once again attacking the messenger. They already have their swiftboat ads up and running – don’t they?
John Kerry did say something accurate though – those Republicans that are criticizing good patriotic Democrats now are the very ones that have never worn a military uniform and NEVER fought for their country. Kerry did in Vietnam and maybe he just knows a little more about combat than Bush, Cheney or Karl Rove.
Semenhair–
If he meant what you said he does, it would be insulting.
Fortunately, that’s not what he meant.
Take a chill pill, witch.
If he meant that people who don’t study get “stuck” in war zones, how would that explain that HE served in a war zone?
Doesn’t make good nonsense. He meant what he said he meant, and quit twisting his words.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 31, 2006 at 10:02 PM
“If he meant that people who don’t study get “stuck” in war zones, how would that explain that HE served in a war zone?”
A nice try, but the deed has been done.
Get over yourself sean hannity wannabe. You’ve no credibility here.
Please show me bush’s shining service record. Or Cheney’s or Rumsfelds, or Rush Limbaughs.
Or you could extol me with the brave service of Karl Rove who was beat up by a girl at the age of 9 and ALSO never served in the military.
Regale me with the brave service record of Tom Delay or Newt Gingrich….
And I could go on and on.
I’ll raise something of a different point.
The military OVERWHELMINGLY is Republican leaning. Why is that? I call it unfortunate considering how Republican politicians so badly use the military……especially under the bush admininstration.
But I do wish to understand it. YOU know, so I can help those otherwise good folks think and vote more intelligently.
Is it because they think that way going in to the military? No that is not likely. Political attitudes and leanings are pretty evenly split. It is not likely that a random voluteer group would be disposed one political way or the other.
What is MORE likely is that the breakdown in individuality that the military uses as part of its training CREATES Republican thinking people. YOU know, dogmatic types with blind allegiance to leaders, a self proclaimed (arguably earned) corner on “patriotism”, and a tendency to march lockstep not just on the parade field but in thinking? All hallmarks of Republicans whether they have served or not.
The question is. Are our troops being brainwashed to support one party and if so why?
kia,
Which most closely matches reality, and makes the most sense?
1) “You know, education – if you make the most of it – you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”
2) “Do you know where you end up if you don’t study, if you aren’t smart, if you’re intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush.’”
kia, tell us how many students who dropped and/or flunked out of Pasadena City College since 2003 are now “stuck in Iraq”?
Also kia, who got us “stuck in Iraq”? Some students, a few years ago at Pasadena City College, who didn’t study hard enough?
KSN has showed greater journalistic integrity than the Wichita Eagle in asking why Todd Tiahrt will not debate his democratic challenger Garth McGinn.
I am going to write to KSN and ask them to forum a debate between McGinn and Tiahrt. If Tiahrt chooses not to show then McGinn can debate an empty chair.
Hey, Tiahrt is already an empty suit for all but the insanely rich.
I encourge all here to write to KSN and DEMAND a debate between a man who WANTS to represent his district (Garth McGinn) and a man who clearly cares more about his self than his constituents. (Todd Tiahrt)
Posted by: J R | October 31, 2006 at 10:14 PM
“YOU know, dogmatic types with blind allegiance to leaders, a self proclaimed (arguably earned) corner on “patriotism”, and a tendency to march lockstep not just on the parade field but in thinking? All hallmarks of Republicans whether they have served or not.”
I would make myself scarce on Veterans Day if I was you. heh
There’s not a draft cosmos or anyone else who wants to portray service people as “stuck” in the war. No one is stuck anywhere. They are serving by choice.
J R,Ahem.
I smell fear.
The fear of Repukes going down.
And when they do go down, let the subpeonas issue forth . . .
I want to see those sumovabitches with their hands up in the air under oath.
Let them spin that.
Words mean something Nimrod. When someone says out loud “if you study hard….. if you don’t you get stuck in Iraq, that is what he means. If he doesn’t mean what he says then he should shut up.
If you can’t respect other peoples opinions why comment on anything. After all the rest of us are just “witches” “morons” “idiots”, right. All you libs are the same. If anybody disagrees with you, call them names, swear at them and change the subject.
I didn’t site anyone else’s war record but the one’s of my own family. I don’t need radio talking heads to tell me what to think. Unlike the left I don’t wait for someone to tell me where to stand on the issues. John Kerry insulted my grandfathers, uncles, father, husband, his grandfathers, father, uncles and brother. I know what he said, he’s said it before just not as plainly. He hates the military and he hates this country and if it were up to him, he’d have turned us over to the terrorist the day after 9/11.
So politely and sincerely I say, God bless you and have a blessed day (I really couldn’t think of anything that would annoy you more.)
“Kerry hates the military and he hates this country and if it were up to him, he’d have turned us over to the terrorist the day after 9/11.”
Ah, okay then.
Thanks for clarifying the fact that you’re just totally insane.
I’ll give you a wide berth from now on.
As Jesus said in John 7:14 (repeating 1 Sam 16:7) “Judge not by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”
J.R.Maybe the military and republicans, unlike democrats, know there are things worth fighting and dying for!
I used to think there was room around the ideological table for everyone. That it was important to have liberal and conservative views as well as all those in between, but some of you people are convincing me other wise. Maybe this is the war that will end human kind. At the moment I’m not sure that would be such a bad thing.
Mr c? Ahem what?
JM I smell fear too!
I smell a nothing story being blown WAY out of proportion to cover up and distract from:
Foley, Iraq, DeLay, Abramoff, No WMDs, subverting the Constitution, record debt, record trade deficit,broken border,bin Laden at large, anthrax attacker at large……
shall I go on?
ONE mangled jab at the most failed president in history is the best you’ve got?
Oh and the Veterans day remark? Many of my very good friends are veterans.
That is right I said veterans. They DID serve. Their distance from that service has liberated (liberalized?) their perspective.
Who is the better friend of the troops? Is it I and those who question vigorously their use or mis-use? Or are they better advocated by those who say more must die to sanctify the sacrifice of the already dead? In for a penny in for a pound is pretty poor thinking when the currency is those who volnteer to serve!
I can’t believe the shills keep just plugging along that in all the context that Kerry was speaking, he SUDDENLY switched from talking about the President being a dummy, to troops being dummies.
Ya know, even when Clinton went on his little ‘is’ definition crap, I could say “oh man, now that’s ridiculous”. Just as ridiculous as trying to say this was about the troops.
Sean–
It’s not the “dying for” that bothers soldiers.
It’s the “killing for” part.
Not even Scarboro can say this comment was directed toward the troops, nor Matthews. But I’ll bet MONEY who IS saying this comment was directed toward the troops…O’Reility-challenged and Limpballs.
Two points –1 — IF John Kerry was commenting on George Bush intelligence and education, he is really in denial. John Kerry — as came out after his military records were released has a lower IQ than Bush — and worse grades at Yale, where Bush’s best grades were obtained in courses like Anthropology and philosophy and Kerry’s were in Political Science. Also, if you follow the logic of Kerry’s attempted (presumed) joke, he would be saying that a failed education creates one being elected governor of Texas and then President of the United States…and then one gets stuck in Iraq — an extremely convoluted and inconceivability line of thought, and pretty dumb!
2 — -In any case, the people he owes an apology to ise troops, and all military people and families. Even accepting that it was a bungled joke, the fact is he hurt a whole lot of people. He needs to take responsibility for that hurt, even if unintended. We all have “misspoke”, but if it hurt anyone, the decent thing most people would do is apologize for that hurt (due to the “bungle”). If Kerry was more of a person and less of a political animal, he would have immediately said he misspoke and apologized for the inadvertent hurt caused by his gaff. The time for Kerry to do this with any genuineness has now come and gone…more signs that he is far less intelligent than he like people to believe
Right, P_mom.
If he meant that dumb people have to go and fight, he would have said it.
Why would he say something and then turn around and say that’s not what he meant?
He meant what he meant: If you’re stupid, you do stupid things–like get us bogged down in Iraq.
But that doesn’t work for Sean and Rush and Hannity et al.’s self-perpetuating fantasy that liberals hate the military and hold them in disdain.
Hey, we’re not the ones charging them for meals while they’re getting treated for an amputed leg at Walter Reed . . .
seanmahair
It is clear to me that you are an emotionally disturbed person. I am sorry truly for your pain. But it does not allow you a special and unquestioned voice here.
To be fair, your claims of family service are just that…..claims. You must know that we must treat them with the same skepticism that we hold the service EVADERS I listed to.
Last year, the Heritage Foundation published a study titled, “Debunking the myth of the underprivileged soldier,” which said “the typical recruit in the all-volunteer force is wealthier, more educated and more rural than the average 18- to 24-year-old citizen is.”
For every two recruits coming from the poorest neighborhoods, the study said, “there are three recruits coming from the richest neighborhoods.”
http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed112905a.cfm?RenderforPrint=1
heh heh heh
‘botched joke’ ‘I will not apologize’ heh heh heh
I wonder if the Swift Boat Veterans have that on their web site yet. heh
Oh yeah. heh heh
Posted by: J R | October 31, 2006 at 11:00 PM
“It is clear to me that you are an emotionally disturbed person. I am sorry truly for your pain. But it does not allow you a special and unquestioned voice here.”
You know why you are ineffective in this blog J R and probably anywhere else.
It’s because you are a hate monger. You breathe it, spit it, throw it at everyone you get a chance to. You insult, belittle, deride, discredit by slur and any other low-handed trick you can think of.
Give it a rest and try to discuss or at least have a sense of humor about things.
You must admit what Kerry said, was bone-headed, whether it was intentional or not.
unh uh Kia you and yours do NOT get off that easy.
Kerry screwed up a jab at bush. That occurred YESTERDAY!
It is Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, AND the so called “liberal” media that is driving (and creating!) Kerry’s “attack” on the troops.
Why are Rush, Hannity and the so called “liberal” media undermining the morale of our troops by CREATING a “story” where an important political leader supposedly called the troops dumb?
Gives new meaning to “If it bleeds it leads!” does it not?
J R
It still doesn’t give you license to bash people with your hate mongering.
You’ve become a product of your own propaganda. You need to step back and examine your philosophy.
//”You know education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq,”// John Kerry October 30, 2006
He really didn’t mean that. What he meant to say was “”You know education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don’t, you get stuck voting for Liberals.”That makes much more sense.
kia,
“There’s not a draft cosmos or anyone else who wants to portray service people as “stuck” in the war. No one is stuck anywhere. They are serving by choice.”
Thank you kia, for correctly pointing out that students who don’t study hard enough, etc, are not forced to be “stuck in Iraq”.
And, you have answered that quote #2, in http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2006/10/open_thread_25.html#comment-24664394 most closely matches reality, and makes the most sense.
Dear JR,
As a liberal I realize that you contribute greatly to the good of the country with your feelings, great thoughts and witty words but what have you actually ever contributed to your country? Community? Neighborhood? Church?
I realize that by pointing out the many failings of republicans in general and the many failings of the current administration in particular that you have demonstrated great patriotism, but what exctly have you ever done to make this country better?
Now please don’t take offense but have you ever been in a parade or do you just watch them on TV? Have you ever participated in the election of our leaders past merely voting and complaining? Ever run for office? Ever been a volunteer that worked directly for and with a candidate? Ever been an officer in a candidate’s election staff? Ever volunteered to work for a political party in getting out the vote?
Have you ever been in the service? Tried to enlist? Been turned down for some reason or another? Or do you merely show contempt for the servicemen like your previous post so clearly inidicates?
Just wondering, JR. I read a lot of your posts, but I obviously miss quite a few because many threads I never open. So it’s entirely posible that I might have missed your many personal contributions to society other than your witty words.
On the other hand, people that have been around this BLOG as long as I have know that I am retired Navy. They know a little about my service. They know that on occasion you have belittled me in various ways for and about my service. You equate my pension and my health care benefits to being on the government dole. You have belittled my medals and ribbons.
People know that I am a Christian; husband and father; a republican. People know that I love dogs and horses. I raise dogs. I train dogs. I rescue dogs. I trial and show dogs. Once I believe you ridiculed me for having purebred dogs. You have a dog, you enjoy and love your dog. What have you ever done to benefit dogs in general?
A lot of the people that have been on this BLOG for a while remember that I worked quite a bit on Tiahrt’s first campaign for congress. I first worked for his apponent in the primary, David Roll. I went to Washington, DC and worked with the RNC on his campaign. I’ve run for office. I currently hold a very minor public office.
I’m not bragging, merely pointing out that I’ve shared many of my personal experiences on this BLOG in the past. Many of which I have recieved a snide shot from you about. Are you a very private, humble, modest man, or do you merely just find fault with others?
My boy is a US Marine. I pray that you and others on this BLOG have had or will have the pride and joy that I had the day I saw my boy graduate from bootcamp. I hope that you and others on this BLOG will get a chance to discover the intelligence, patriotism and will that the men and women in the Marines have. The ones I have had the honor to meet since my boy joined the Marines are the smartest, toughest and best this country has to offer.
There is seldom a day that goes by that my boy doesn’t do or say something that makes me proud. I hope that you and others on this BLOG have the joy and pride I have had watching my son grow and mature into a man.
They are in Iraq not because some ‘idiot sent them there’. They are there because they want to be there. They are there because they understand the mission and realize they are doing a job that has to be done. The retention rate of the Marines is testimony to their understanding and to their dedication to the job that needs to be done.
My boy had fullfilled his military obligation with four years active duty and was attending WSU when 9/11 happened. When others were trying to pin the blame somewhere other than the actuall terrorists my boy joined the Marine Corps reserve, ‘in case the country needed him’. Others in his unit were there for the same reason, willing to put their education, careers, marriage or their very life on hold ‘in case their country needed them’.
Nathan lacked 10 credit hours to complete a dual degree in electrical engineering and computer science when he was called up. He left for Iraq willingly and eager to contribute to the effort to defeat terrorism.
I apologize for going on and on, but sometimes I just get weary of your never-ending stream of self-righteous ignorant bullshit. Especially when you show contempt for the service men and women that willingly sacrifice their lives for your right to even exist.
I still love ya,
Hank
Let’s try again….I just lost a really good post.
JM
You are new to this forum. You know nothing about my history here.
Folks on “your side” have posted lies on me and my family.
I myself have NEVER been busted in a distortion, twist, or outright lie. I have made a mistake or two for which I PROFUSELY apologized.
I have encoutered posters like “seanmahair” before. The results over the long or short term for them were ultimately not pretty. I have learned from that. I’ve no desire to add to someones pain. I could name names but you do not know them and if they still read here, I do not wish to add to their pain.I am no shill. The only thing I “hate” is liars or shills.
I routinely am in contact with those on “my side” and ask them if I go too far. They tell me I do not go far enough.
I also contact those not on “my side” to ask if I am being fair. I have never had a private complaint or rebuke. In fact, I have brought folks to this forum who avoid the regular media. Again, being new you would not know about that. THOSE folks mostly are polar opposites of me politically. Yet THEY trusted me. This is a trust I hold in very high regard and again, I’ve had no complaints.
You want to make me a hater? YEAH I hate lying and hypocrisy and manipulation. You go to the archives and find me guilty of any of those things. Then maybe you will have a point.
Kerry? I already SAID it was a gaffe. It was a gaffe in front of a few hundred people in AMERICA. It is Rush and Hannity and the media and seanmahair and YOU that are showing it to the troops.
Keep watching JM. It is gonna be a late night.
My last post crossed Mr Price’s missive to me. This is gonna take awhile.
Lets start at the beginning.
“…but what have you actually ever contributed to your country? Community? Neighborhood? Church?
I am one of the loudest advocates that Todd Tiahrt should actually defend his right to hold his office. I have been demanding that the Eagle hold him accountable to our political traditions for more than a month. I am or have been a member of the Humane Society, Greenpeace, the Planetary Society, The Sierra club, the Wilderness Society, I could go on. I am most proud of my work with the Young Astronauts. COUNTRY
Again, my fight for Todd Tiarht to be accountable to his district, my work at my kids school, my NO on the Arena vote, my membership in and advocacy of local labor union, COMMUNITY
NEIGHBORHOOD Mine is one of three homes with basements in my neigborhood. It is open as a shelter in the event of tornado. I am a member of the neighborhood watch. I share my trash dumpster with two elderly neighbors.
Church? Well as you know Hank I am not a member of any church.
Let’s see if you have posted further. Your technology IS better than mine. I will check and be back.
I’ll continue then.
“Have you ever participated in the election of our leaders past voting and complaining?”
YUP. Been posting for a month to hold Tiarht accountable to his constituents. YOU have ridiculed me for that.
“ever participate in a parade”
Your point? I have actually. Parades serve little purpose. I DO cheer Vietnam vets who march in parades. YOU and yours largely belittle many of them their homeless status.
“….ever run for office?”
No Hank I don’t have the money. Neither does Garth McGinn. Again, your point?
And just WHERE is my contempt for servicemen? Is MY position and politics getting them killed?
YOU hank say:
“You have belittled my medals and ribbons.”
PROVE THAT! You have never posted as to your “medals and ribbons”. So how could I belittle them? I wouldn’t.
I DO call some of what you post hypocrisy. You rail against government welfare. But like it or not, your career in the military WAS a government job. You do brag that I am paying your retirement. I can do a bonedig and show that.
“Once I believe you ridiculed me for having purebred dogs.”
Think again. YOU KNOW like you had to after you accused me of being a drug user? I own a purebred registered ShihTru and I am no hypocrite.
Your work with dogs I have applauded! Check the last pit bull thread.
“What have you done to benefit dogs in general?”
Wow you really do hate and want to make me hated don’t you? All while you pretend at sainthood for actions I have appaluded you for.
I cite the above. More?
Trick or treating tonight, my son and I came on a lost ShihTzu. I carried that dog to every house we visited looking for anyone who could find the owner. That dog is in my backyard right now. I SHOULD be searching online for the owner. I’ll have to do that tomorrow as I am here now defending myself from your attacks. If your email is still live, I can send you a pic of the dog. If I cannot find the owner, it will need a rescue.
“…do you merely find faults with others?”
I don’t lie on people Hank. YOU and your son do that. I can go there. Let’s not.
Then lots of pride from you about your son and his service. Love of country etc.
Show me a country I can love and I’ll show it to MY son. Sorry, I don’t see it. I don’t have the necessary ingredient…….MONEY. How you got it I will leave alone. THAT you have it is the difference in our perspective.
I won’t impugn Nathan his motive. That is not what I do.He does it alot to me. I let it go.
Hank you have YOUR America and YOUR Nathan is fighting for it.I understand. You are for whatever reason,comfortable. I have my America and I cannot imagine asking or expecting MY Nathan to fight for it. Me and mine are NOT comfortable. You can call it our fault all you like but it is a reality you and yours made.
Gotta go now. The dog I do not care about is barking at the back door. Also? I gotta try and get Garth McGinn some fair treatment against YOUR congressman Todd Tiahrt.
Late on Kerry thing. But if Kerry’s IQ is tested lower than Bush’, then it can only be a proof that Kerry at least tried to make the best of what he had, rather than sending it to pickle factory.
JR,What’s the deal with picking on patriotic senior citizens, and their little dogs, too?
Just Wondering–
People who cheap shot under a one-hit wonder name don’t deserve answers.
Buzz off.
Hank–
I have a lot of respect and admiration for your service and your son’s.
SO, when have you ever heard JR or me or any other liberal poster say something that shows
“contempt for the service men and women that willingly sacrifice their lives for your right to even exist.”
You’ve never heard that from anyone on our side of the aisle.
We’re the ones that want the body armor, the upgraded humvees, the improved medical benefits that our soldiers have coming to them.
We’re the ones that want the huge multinational companies making billions to actually do their damn jobs like feed the troops and give them clean water etc. instead of charging the taxpayer for nothing.
We’re the ones that want to get your son out of a war zone ASAP.
That’s not contempt. That’s concern.
Capn,
I’m going to take you at your word. I truely beleive that you are concerned about our military men and women.
Actually I believe that most of the people on this BLOG are good hearted with the best of the country in mind.
I just disagree with most of you.
JR showed contempt for the military in a post just a few posts above the one you bone digged my quote in as far as I’m concerned.
I like JR, I just get tired of his never ending stream of self righteous bull shit.
I wnat my son out of a war zone too. I want him out of the Marines. That being said, I did not send him there, GW did not sdend him there, he went because it was the right thing to do.
Thanks again for your concern, a prayer every now and then would help too!
Hank
“Show me a country I can love and I’ll show it to MY son.”
Kinda says it all, don’t it.
JR, just where should I sign you up for sainthood?
SeanMahair?
Could that be the REAL S&M?
Or is paulie the shillie the real S&M. He seems to LOVE the pain of a good ass whoopin.
Hmmm.
SeanMahair. S&M.
I like it……
Sainthood? Me?
Hell I don’t march in enough parades or rescue kittens from burning buildings to warrant Sainthood. Ask Hank. Then too my lack of any organized religion makes it unlikely I’ll be canonized let alone made a saint. I’d rather laugh with the sinners anyways. I’ll settle for Knighthood. Sir J R. Yeah, I like that.
Show me a country I can teach my kid to love is what I said. You yourself GMC would just have us embrace what is rather than what should be. (Tiahrts shameful actions being the origin of this line of arguement from yesterday)
I gotta go. There’s a lady with bad teeth and a sword that I have to see. Maybe I’ll start a parade on the way. Hank tell me about your medals so I can finish the ridiculing of them I never started.
Hank: “I wnat my son out of a war zone too. I want him out of the Marines. That being said, I did not send him there, GW did not sdend him there, he went because it was the right thing to do.”
So, CiC didn’t send him to Iraq, he went beacuse [he believed] it was the right thing to do. Sounds like a deserter or a mercenary.
In all cases, it is my belief that the US troops need to plan fo an orderly retreat to regroup. Perhaps even for a change in mission definition. Iraq is teetering on the brink of a civil war, and US may not capable to stop the descent.
And, Hank, I do hope that Nathan shall come home soon safely, that this nightmare will end soon, for the sake of all of us. It will take courage from the top to chart the best route to navigate.
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