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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Oct. 30, 2006 at 1:06 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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68 Comments
Coincidence or not, gotcher “November surprise” right here:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200610260010
Makes one ponder about Sebelius real stance on immigration when she supports illegal aliens getting a Kansas Driver License and having no photo ID check at voting places.
Makes me wonder about motive.
Supposably, Sebelius states she wants the illegal immigrants to get auto insurance and you need a driver’s license to do that.
Yeah right. Ever been to San Antonio, Texas Governor?
Most likely, the driver’s license ploy is a way to smuggle in votes from illegal aliens. I mean who is gonna check you are not a citizen when you have a legitimate Kansas Driver’s License? With a Driver’s License, the door is wide open to a lot of other things usually reserved for citizens.
Barnett, Republican candidate states he is opposed to illegal imigrants obtaining Kansas Driver’s licenses and that Voters should show a photo ID when they vote.
Seems to me a photo ID when you vote is just common sense. It would cut down on all those dead people and perhaps illegal aliens casting a ballot at least.
Would it make sense to provide for a photo ID that is FREELY available? Ok, maybe some dispensation for groups such as the Amish, who don’t believe in having their photos taken.
Sebelius allows illegal immigrants to get Kansas Driver’s license.
“Mexico’s government is providing cover for its illegal emigrants by furnishing them with ID — “matricula consular” cards — meant to let them open U.S. bank accounts or get U.S. driver’s licenses. The FBI has denounced the matricula consular card as a security nightmare, since its background check is so superficial and it is so easily forged — yet federal authorities are allowing its use to spread across the country.”The Dallas Morning News “Get Serious about immigration enforcement.” Dec 30,2004″”
Based upon al Qaeda documents seized by British MI-6 intelligence during recent raids in Pakistan, it is now known that al Qaeda has established strong South American links with the Colombian terror group FARC, the Shining Path in Peru, thousands of Muslim students in the Dominican Republic, the Hugo Chavez government in Venezuela and with Mexico’s Popular Revolutionary Army (EPR). The documents reveal that al Qaeda sees these groups as facilitating the entry of al Qaeda operatives into the United States through the porous Mexican border.
You see folks, it’s not just Mexican Citizen’s who are crossing the southern border of the United States illegally, it’s what Border Agents call ‘Other Than Mexican’ (OTM’s.)
With the easily faked ID’s from Mexico, these OTM’s (yes including Al Queada operatives) can come through our unguarded borders and then on to Kansas to get their Kansas Driver License, courtesy of Governor Sebelius.
Sebelius liberal policies on illegal aliens, ‘The Effect’
Kansas taxpayers are currently burdened with annual costs of about $235 million because of illegal aliens residing in the state. That estimate was based on only expenditures for education, emergency medical care and incarceration. We projected that those costs will rise unless we gain control over our borders and our worksites. If a new amnesty and increases in immigrants and guest workers were enacted, as proposed by business and ethnic advocacy groups, we project that the cost to the state’s taxpayers for those same programs would rise to $396 million per year in 2010 and to $685 million per year in 2020.
*Based on the research of Rice Univ. Economics Prof. Donald Rice, FAIR estimates the net cost of Kansas’s foreign-born population was over $154 million in 1995. This estimate is based on the public services they received and costs associated with their displacement of American workers.
So, how is Sebelius stopping this flow of illegal aliens? Answer: She’s not, she’s encouraging it by allowing illegal immigrants to apply for Kansas Driver’s License and allowing the children of illegal immigrants to get in-state resident fees when they attend Kansas universities.
AMERICA HELD HOSTAGE:
DAY 2109
Presidency held hostage:813 Days left.Congress held hostage:68 Days left.
HAVE A NICE DAY.
Thursday, October 19, 2006Posted by Jim Hightower
Is it just me, or is the rancid stench of Washington political corruption a lot more malodorous than usual?
You might remember a decade ago when Newt Gingrich put forth his “Contract with America,” pledging that if Republicans took power they’d tidy up the place spick-and-span, turning it into an ethical nunnery. Well, since then, the GOP has taken total power – the congress, presidency, and the courts – but Washington these days is stinkier than a barroom spittoon. Take a whiff of such characters as Tom DeLay, Jack Abramoff, Duke Cunningham, Bob Ney… and so many more mugshots in the making.
Indeed, there is now so much corruption between lobbyists and lawmakers that the FBI has had to triple the number of squads investigating them. For decades, only one squad was needed to handle such cases, but this year there are three squads with 37 full-time agents digging into the muck – and the FBI official overseeing the mess says he wants to add a fourth corruption squad, because so much wrongdoing is being uncovered.
The misdeeds are so deep and widespread that the leaders can’t smell their own stink. Early this year, when some of the scandals were revealed, the GOP loudly promised to stop the selling of legislative favors. In September, however, when media coverage of the corruption had died down, the house cynically passed a sham of a reform, patted itself on the back, and promptly returned to taking lobbyist-financed junkets, using lobbyists to chair their fund-raising committees, and putting their spouses on lobbyists’ payrolls. Their “reform” was about as effective as tying an air freshener to the tail of a hog.
This is Jim Hightower saying… The only reform that’ll actually do the job is legislation to remove the corporate money from politics by providing public financing of all congressional elections. To learn more about it, call Public Campaign: 202-293-0222.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-10-29-abortion-cover_x.htm
Woman describes how partial birth abortion allowed her to have more children later, a provision not allowed under current law.
Nice going, pro-birthers.
Thanks to you people, women like this would have to put their lives at risk to carry their non-viable, monstrous births.
(Patti is Ron and Nancy’s daughter)
By Patti DavisNewsweek
Oct. 25, 2006 – When I was a kid, I was once being teased relentlessly by a bully at school, and I faked being sick to stay home and avoid him. My parents knew I was faking (the thermometer under hot water trick didn’t work) but they also knew something was wrong. My father came into my room to talk to me, and I willingly confessed. He patiently explained to me that the best way to deal with a bully was to totally ignore him—treat him as if he is invisible. Because all bullies really want is attention.I got it right back then. I returned to school, ignored the persistent bully, and he backed off. I seem less able to do that now when a bully by the name of Rush Limbaugh has accused Michael J. Fox of faking the symptoms of Parkinson’s (OK, he actually said “acting”) for political purposes. Fox, who could easily be held blameless if he reacted with rage and vitriol, has exhibited grace and dignity, ignoring the blathering accusations of the radio host and expressing appreciation that, just two weeks before the midterm elections, we are discussing stem-cell research. We could all learn from the way the actor has responded to cruelty; certainly I can.
Fox, stricken with Parkinson’s disease while still in his 30s, has not shied away from public view or expressed any self-pity or anger at the hand fate has dealt him. In fact, he has called himself “lucky”—for the unwavering love of his family, a career he can be proud of and the opportunity to use his fame to bring attention to the miracles that stem-cell treatment holds for people afflicted with many diseases, including Parkinson’s. He has demonstrated courage, generosity and compassion.
Limbaugh, on the other hand, flagrantly broke the law by procuring large amounts of drugs and then escaped the punishment that someone who is not white, wealthy and famous would have gotten. He spends his time insulting people and gets paid handsomely to do so; now we have seen that even those with serious diseases don’t get a reprieve from his cruel bluster. And his apology doesn’t cancel out the nastiness of his original comment.
While I am obviously not ignoring Limbaugh, I am determined to focus more of my attention on Fox, because he is an example of how all of us should live our lives. There will always be cruelty in the world, there will always be bullies. How we respond is what matters. There are loftier goals than mudslinging. The people we will remember years from now are those who kept walking calmly and kindly through the worst mudslinging, who kept their attention on the changes they wished to make in the world and who treated others with compassion even when they were being abused.
Fox could slink away and hide his disease from us—few would blame him. Instead, he is using the misfortune that came his way to try and open doors to a miraculous future—a future in which diseases like Parkinson’s, diabetes, ALS and Alzheimer’s could perhaps be cured. He will be known for that work, as well as for his dignity in the face of insults.
Hopefully, stem-cell treatment will be available in time to cure Michael J. Fox. There are no stem cells, though, that can cure heartlessness. Cruelty is a demon that feeds on itself. Limbaugh’s fate is ultimately the harsher one.
A drivers license can and should be ‘coded’ to show citizenship status. We currently have a system with the picture for over and under 21 to make it easy for bars to descriminate. We could use different color backgrounds for example.
I agree with Roo haa that we need to have available such ID for both drivers and non-drivers. Then simply scan it at the voting place. If you look at the back of the license lower left you see a bunch of stuff that looks like an ink-blot test. That is a 2-D barcode. It contains your information, similar to the mag strip above. I used that at the airport when I flew to Canada – the machine matched me with my ticket reservation. I then entered my passport number and was on my way.
There is absolutely no reason that giving drivers licences to aliens – whether legal or not – whould lead to voting fraud any more than what we have now.
A little something that pertains to campaign finance.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NmE4NWY3Yjc4YmJmMDJmOGU0ZmQwNGE0MjNlMDJiZTY=
The GOP has historically been the party of both Main Street and Wall Street. But over the past decade, the plutocrats have increasingly become Democrats. Billionaires for Bush are increasingly outnumbered by billionaires who hate Bush. And Republicans in limousines are being outpaced by Democrats in Lear Jets.
And a bit on the MJF controversy in case it hasnt been highlighted yet…..from Boortz
Thankfully, this whole controversy with Michael J. Fox and the stem cell debate is winding down, but there is one final development to report. Yesterday in an interview aired on ‘This Week’ with George Stephanopoulos, Fox made a very important admission. You know that commercial he made [video] in Missouri, in support of that controversial stem cell amendment? Well, as it turns out, Michael J. Fox hasn’t even read the amendment. Oops.
Boortz – a wonderful source. A druggie Limbaugh wannabe.
My hat’s off to MJF for being HONEST.
Unlike his sleazy drug-addled counterpart, Mr. Limpballs.
Garth McGinn is best suited to serve the interests of the constituents of Kansas 4th Congressional District. He will not be beholding to special interests that have dominated our current representative for the last 12 years. Garth’s positions are moderate. He would help lead the effort in sincere campaign funding and ethics reform. Garth believes energy independence can benefit Kansas farmers immensely and reduce our reliance on foreign oil by doubling fuel efficiencies in 5 years and have half of vehicles on alternative fuel by 10 years. He knows it is a key growth area for Kansans and the nation, requiring both public investment and tax incentives. He will work to simplify the tax code and end loopholes enjoyed by just the wealthiest Americans. The incumbent has little to nothing to show for his 12 years as your representative in Washington, and has no plan for the needed changes. It is time for a change in Washington and the Republican parties unparalleled corruption, crony capitalism and scandal. .
Garth McGinn will be an advocate for the change and improvement sorely needed. Garth McGinn will best represent you.
Despicable heckler
The issue was never about what was in the Michael Jay Fox ads. I have YET to see fatmouth Rush or you or any of that crowd find anything wrong with the substance of the ads.
The issue is that Rush AND you would ridicule Michael J Fox’s illness while simultaneously working to deny him a cure.
How do you sleep heck? Let me guess. Hanging upside down?
J R – please retract your insult. Bats serve a very important function in our ecology, eating many times their weight in insects.
“Billionaires for Bush are increasingly outnumbered by billionaires who hate Bush. And Republicans in limousines are being outpaced by Democrats in Lear Jets.”
Heckler, I would like to see some data on this. If the above is true, that new crop of billionaires are some serious dumbasses.
I eat flaming dragon farts.Does that count?
Or, billionaires with a conscience? Forgive me, I was experiencing a delusion just then. Those new guys must be dumb.
Steven, it’s okay.We’ll gladly take them, money and all.If they are evangelical they can keep them.
Actually, if Heckler is correct they might just be smart billionaires. They realize that if working people have money in their pockets they will spend it. That, in turn, helps improve the overall economy. So, in the long run, everyone can benefit.
Okay, Ben.So devouring flaming dragon farts is a public service.
Clinton signed a bill in 1995 prohibiting embryo stem cell research. How come none of the Democrats want to saddle that horse? Hmmmm? ehhh??
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/dispatches/050413.html
JM,
It was the Gingrich gang who affected the federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. IF you are interested in facts they’re all laid out very neatly at the click above.
Reasonable people know this subject doesn’t belong in politics. Next week we will elect more reasonable people and change the many stupid paths our country has taken over the last six years.
“Well, as it turns out, Michael J. Fox hasn’t even read the amendment. Oops”
MJF probably never read any of his contracts, either. That’s what agents and attorneys are for.
Perhaps all of Congress should be questioned as to which bills they’ve read before VOTING ON THEM.
Ben
I apologize for insulting bats by comparing them to Rush Limbaugh and heckler. Bats deserve better company.
Mr heckler? Have YOU ever read a congressional bill, amendment, or any other such complicated legalese? It is often dry, complicated double speak. Not the easiest stuff to digest. I don’t know what Parkinsons disease does to attention span or concentration. I DO suspect that the other symptoms of Parkinsons make in depth reading a difficult task. Or, had you considered that?
No dice heckler. There is no spinning outta this one. You jumped on a very nasty bandwagon by attempting to support Rush Limbaughs vile assault on Michael J Fox. You will either have to get off that wagon (I hope) or ride it wherever it goes. To hell I hope.
Oh boy, I getta say it again:BILL CLINTON!!BILL CLINTON!!
I think it’s a little late in the game to be kicking this dead horse,but keep trying!
J R – I remember trying to read a KS legislative Bill that was based on what I had written. By the timr it was translated from English (what I had written) into legalese it was almost unrecognizable.
Cosmos,
Ah another Wikipedia entry.
From Wikipedia itself:
Wikipedia is free content that ANYONE may edit.
Get it? Anyone…me, you, the dog catcher from lower Slovia, anyone…
ksfg – I am rather certain the troll is not nathan. He is a face-to-face type, not a cowardly troll type. For that reason I can respect him.
Heckler – I also want more rich people. That is why I want a robust economy for all; such an economy creates more wealth across the board.
JM,
The situation has completely changed since 1995.
Do you want to talk about:* The hESC discovery in 1998?* Clinton’s National Bioethics Advisory Commission recommendation in 1999?* What happened in/after 2001.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell_controversy#Origins_of_policy_debate_in_the_U.S. ?
Note the “Congressional response” ‘04, ‘05, ‘06, and Bush’s veto.
In today’s Eagle: Emirates cancels order for 20 Airbus A340-600s
I bet someone in Europe is checking their office to see if their name plate is still there.
jr
Why yes jr I have read congressional bills before. Yes they are dry and difficult to read if you are not schooled in legaleeze. But if you are going to do a political add for someone you should at least understand what you are advocating. Even if you have to have someone you trust read up on it for you.
And just what am I trying to spin out of jr? Sometimes you make no sense.
Your tolerance of folks who disagree with you needs a little help dude. Your either condeming me to Hell or making veiled references to the need to shoot conservatives when the SHTF.
And when did I ridicule MJF? Show me!!
Ben
Actually I want a lot more wealthy people in America. They buy jets and turboprops and piston engine planes.That means a good paying job for me and a lot of other people. They buy yachts and stuff as well which means jobs for other folks as well. Bring on more filthy stinkin rich people!!!!
jr
You make a claim, I challenge you to prove it, you sidestep the challenge .
Once again you prove yourself incapable of rational debate. Go back to bed.
Has anyone but me noticed that when nathan is not on the blog, the nasty troll that steals nics and mocks people like Ben also disappears from the blog?
Things that make ya go hmmmmmm….
Ben
Same here. WTF??
12:06
testing
http://www.weforum.org/en/initiatives/gcp/Global%20Competitiveness%20Report/index.htm
Global economic competivenessCountry Rankings 2006-2007
1. Switzerland2. Finland3. Sweden4. Denmark5. Singapore6. US7. Japan8. Germany9. Netherlands10. UK11. Hong Kong12. Norway13. Taiwan,China14. Iceland15. Israel16. Canada
Top 50 IndexCountry highlights
wierd – my post appeared ABOVE those to which I was replying …
WE Blog appears to be having issues
Continuing now my exclusive interview with Kansas 4th district representative the U S House of Representatives, Todd Tiahrt. Todd Tiahrt is represented here by interpretation of his actions and record.
Todd Tiahrt: “I’m Todd Tiahrt!”
J R: “And I’m J R and you’re not! Let’s review Congressman. So far, on the matter of your re election, you have told me that you should be re-elected because..”
Todd Tiahrt: “I’m Todd Tiahrt!”
J R: “Yes I think that about covered it. You also told me that you did not feel the need to debate your Democratic challenger Garth McGinn because…..”
Todd Tiahrt:” I’m Todd Tiahrt and I want to be your representative!”
J R: That’s right. And on the matter of increasing the minimum wage, you and your party clearly believe an increase in the wage of millions of working Americans should be tied to ending the estate tax. As this is a tax that affects only a few thousand of the wealthiest Americans, your message would seem to be that you represent the interests of the very wealthy BEFORE the interests of the majority of your constituents?
Todd Tiahrt: “I’m Todd Tiahrt and I approved this message!”
J R: “I’d like to talk about illegal immigration.”
Todd Tiahrt: “I’m glad you asked me about that. As you know, the House just last week passed a bill to build 700 miles of fence on our southern border. The President has signed the bill and now all Americans are much safer!”
J R:” We ARE?”
Todd Tiahrt: “Well the President says we are. And he is almost always right! That is why I almost always vote like he wants me to.”
J R: Congressman the bill provides no funding to build the fence! What is more, this imaginary unfunded fence has hundreds of miles of holes in it even before it is built! Can you argue that this is ANYTHING more than dog and pony show legislation 2 weeks before an election?
Todd Tiahrt: “uhhhhhh…..”J R: “Concern about illegal immigration is a bi partisan issue. Haven’t you and Republicans created a feel good phony solution purely for political purposes? Isn’t that a fair charge?”
Todd Tiahrt: “I’m Todd Tiahrt?”
J R: “Let’s take a break. When we come back, I’ll ask the congressman some more questions I won’t get straight answers for.”
Heckler
You signed on with Limbaugh. HE attacked Fox. He is still doing so.
I know you must feel terribly defensive just now. Rush clearly does. Too bad. When you say or do a despicable indefensible thing, you don’t get to be the victim.
I don’t listen or agree with Limbaugh on a lot of subjects. Just because he is a consertative talk show hosts, doesn’t mean he represents Republican interests or philosophies.
Cosmos,
Again with Wikipedia. Although I get your idea of chronlogy of events, I abhore anything referenced with Wikipedia.
You do realize that anyone can alter the content of Wikipedia? That means anyone; you, me and the dogcatcher in lower Mongolia.
“Just because he is a consertative talk show hosts, doesn’t mean he represents Republican interests or philosophies.”
Now that’s hilarious!!That’s ALL he represents.That’s ALL he bloviates about.
I have never seen or heard anything BUT that.Has anybody else ever heard ol’ limpballs towing the line for independents or democrats or ANYTHING besides conservative repulicans?Anyone?
Letter to the eagle …
Garth McGinn for Congress
It comes as no surprise that the Wichita Eagle has endorsed Todd Tiahrt – again. After all, Tiahrt has become entrenched in the Washington power structure and, as such, has accumulated numerous favors. In addition, Tiahrt has mastered the art of stroking the media and maintaining good media relations. Unfortunately, as he has become more entrenched into the Washington scene Tiahrt has become increasingly distant from Kansas. This current campaign illustrates that.
In this season voters have been presented with numerous live debates between Sebelius and Barnett and between Kline and Morrison. This has allowed voters to see the candidates in action, without the filter of slickly-produced campaign ads. However, Todd Tiahrt has steadfastly refused to meet his challenger Garth McGinn in face-to-face debates. McGinn has offered to debate Tiahrt any time, any place. Various media outlets have offered to host such meetings. Yet Todd Tiahrt refuses.
Why does Todd Tiahrt refuse to debate Garth McGinn? What is he afraid of? What does Tiahrt have to hide?
Todd Tiahrt proudly tells us about how he has risen to a position of power in the GOP leadership in the House. That leadership, however, is looking more tarnished by the day with news of Abramoff, DeLay, Cunningham, Ney, Foley, and on and on. Todd Tiahrt has never told us what his involvement has been in these matters.
The time has come to clean house in the Congress. As an entrenched member of the hide-bound GOP leadership Todd Tiahrt has become a part of the problem inside the Washington beltway. As such, Tiahrt cannot be part of the solution in cleaning up this mess. Garth McGinn will represent the interests on Kansas in the House of Representatives, not the Party Leadership. It is time for a change; vote for Garth McGinn to give South-Central Kansas REAL representation in the Congress.
the eagle endorsed tiahrt because of his powerful connections on the appropriations committee.
Only problem with that is in about a week, the democrats are going to take back control of house of representatives.
Tiahrts days of power are waning quickly.
It will be liberals appointed to those powerful positions.
If elected, Garth McGinn would most likely be given one of those positions.
Hey, everyone, check the time on your computer. My very unscientific survey of the various threads reveals confusion, different times on different post, etc., leading me to believe the problem is on the poster’s side. If your computer clock didn’t reset itself, it needs to be reset manually. Now, really back to the real world…..
JM,
“Clinton signed a bill in 1995 prohibiting embryo stem cell research.”
The ‘95 Dickey amendment only prohibited FEDERAL funding of human embryo research.
“Wikipedia is free content that ANYONE may edit.”
Errors are usually corrected, and pages that get vandalized get restricted editing.
I guess all you can do is attack the messenger, since you can’t refute the major changes since 1995.
In short, Clinton, supported the research in ‘99, and Congress has supported it — but Bush vetoed it.
Please read lindainks55’s (10:02 AM post) source.http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/dispatches/050413.html
You can cross-check facts at other sites.
This is interesting, I wonder if the repukes might use this as an excuse to void or challenge the election results, if things go against them?????????
U.S. Investigates Voting Machines’ Venezuela Ties
By TIM GOLDENPublished: October 29, 2006
The federal government is investigating the takeover last year of a leading American manufacturer of electronic voting systems by a small software company that has been linked to the leftist
A touch-screen machine by Sequoia Voting Systems was used this month during early balloting in Chicago.
The inquiry is focusing on the Venezuelan owners of the software company, the Smartmatic Corporation, and is trying to determine whether the government in Caracas has any control or influence over the firm’s operations, government officials and others familiar with the investigation said.
The inquiry on the eve of the midterm elections is being conducted by the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States, or Cfius, the same panel of 12 government agencies that reviewed the abortive attempt by a company in Dubai to take over operations at six American ports earlier this year.
Read the entire article at this link:http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/29/washington/29ballot.html?ei=5065&en=e0c8ab46eb7f870b&ex=1162789200&adxnnl=1&partner=MYWAY&adxnnlx=1162123697-fGdgFeTtCKTTCxcnenqAsQ
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!
Vaughn, my computer clock correctly reset itself automatically. I have a Mac. (Actually, I have a Wintel too, but I don’t take it online, because Windows is a hacker’s delight.)
I mean, spammers’, virus loaders’, force you to buy frequent firewall software companies’ delight.
Look, the best truly democratic system would be to require potential voters to fill in a questionnaire requiring them to answer some basic facts to be eligible. Like, who won the presidential races in 1860, 1960, 1976 and 1980, who was the only president to serve more than two terms, what year was Bill Clinton first elected and who was his Republican opponent, who actually elects U.S. presidents so that Al Gore didn’t win the presidency, despite having the majority of American votes, how many American soldiers, sailors and airmen died in Vietnam +/- 30,000, and has the American Congress formally declared war against Iraq or not. Passing score: 60% or above. Failing score, you don’t get to vote.
Vaughn,
I think the odd ordering (replies posted before earlier post) was local, maybe server problem.I had very slow response, and 2 server failure mssgs around then.
Cosmos,
I didn’t attack you. I stated I abhore Wikipedia as a source. There were several companies that were quite upset when they found factually incorrect and unauthorized data on Wikepedia.
Be careful what you use for a source.
Tracy,
Like it or not not all Republicans like Limbaugh, I’m one of them. Sean Hannity gets on my nerves too.
There are factions in the Republican party just like there are factions in the Democratic Party.
The problem with labeling anyone purely Republican or Democrat is that there is no definition of either.
We all have different ideologies depending on how we were raised and what we were exposed to as adults.
Yes, anyone can edit Wikipedia; however, it’s amazing how often it comes close to the truth, or admits the truth is in dispute. I find it’s pretty damned good.
heart;
While I kinda agree with the idea, I’d choose somewhat different questions. I’d bet that if we sat down for 30 minutes or so, we could come up with questions acceptable to both.
Unfortunately, federal law bars using literacy tests (they were used for a discriminatory purpose). Too bad.
On second thought, your proposed test is for a discriminatory purpose as well. Just a different discriminatory standard!! ;-0
JM,
I didn’t mean that you attacked me. I quoted your attack on Wiki, then said you had attacked the “messenger” instead of discussing the changes since 1995 — then suggested you read lindainks55’s link.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/dispatches/050413.html
You seem to prefer to IGNORE Clinton’s strong support of HESC in 2000, and Bush’s non-support — for obvious reasons.
Cosmos,
No, I didn’t ignore it, I just didn’t bring it up to discuss.
The whole argument about whether an embryo is considered a ‘being’ is another long drawn out discussion and probably not a very good topic for this blog. But just briefly stating, embryos are about 2 weeks along and are just starting along with celldifferentiation.
I surmise that we can agree that we disagree on the matter.
Tracy,
Ive been meaning to ask you for quite some time about this:
What exactly do you mean when you say
“I’ll be your Huckleberry?”
Is that a reference to the Mark Twain book or just the character? I don’t get it.
Anyone seen the Wichita Business Journal online survey?
The question is: If the election for a downtown arena sales tax were held today, how would you vote?
http://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/poll/index.html
So far here is the results:
I voted yes then and I’d vote yes now.45%I voted yes then and I’d vote no now.18%I voted no then and I’d vote yes now.1%I voted no then and I’d vote no now.34%
Lets do some addition… The “No’s” are at about 52%
GET EVERYONE U KNOW ON THIS ONE….
I would like to put a visual on this and put an end to the debate on this site…
Tony,
This shows when you click the URL:
error: Can’t use an undefined value as a HASH reference at /usr/local/bizj/htdocs/common/poll/index.html line 95.context:…91:92: my $show_results;93: if ($poll) {94: $show_results = $poll->display_results;95: my $uin = Apache::Cookie->fetch->{U}->value;96: my $has_cookie = $poll->has_poll_cookie({ poll_id => $poll_id });97: if( $ENV{REQUEST_METHOD} eq ‘POST’ && !$has_cookie && $uin) {98: my $questions = $poll->questions;99: foreach my $question_id ( @{$poll->question_order} ){…code stack: /usr/local/bizj/htdocs/common/poll/index.html:95
JM,
“No, I didn’t ignore it, I just didn’t bring it up to discuss.”
Actually, what you seem to have tried to do in this thread is blame Clinton for deliberately blocking HESC research in 1995.
“Clinton signed a bill in 1995 prohibiting embryo stem cell research.”
But the facts (Gingrich’s Congress, etc.) do not support you, so you slither away…
JM, it’s YOU who should be careful who you use for a source. For proof, see http://mediamatters.org/items/200610300003
Selective discussion only works in a censored debate.
Cosmos,
For proof of what exactly?
I wasn’t particularly fond of Ginrich as House Speaker. I think he’s an interesting man to listen to, but didn’t like him in a leadership position.
And show me where I used the Clinton reference as a method “for deliberately blocking HESC research in 1995.”
My motive was I kept seeing, “Bush this and Bush that,” I simply pointed out Clinton’s role in the Stem Cell discussion.
I pointed out the fact, that Clinton signed the bill. He did have the ability to veto it or use a pocket veto. I didn’t research the vote count on it, but am pretty sure he had that option, but he didn’t use it.
JM, the link works on two different systems here… anyone else have anyone else have any problems?
JM,
“My motive was I kept seeing, “Bush this and Bush that,” I simply pointed out Clinton’s role in the Stem Cell discussion.”
You distorted his role.
* Clinton did not have the ability to separately veto the Dickey ammendment in 1995.* The Dickey ammendment did not specifically mention hESC’s.* The first hESC line wasn’t generated until 1998.* In 2000, Clinton supported federally funded hESC research.http://www.aaas.org/spp/cstc/briefs/stemcells/index.shtml#guidelines
‘Candidate Bush opposed embryo stem cell research’http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/08/09/bush.history.stem.cell/