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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Oct. 4, 2006 at 12:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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78 Comments
how open is the open thread?
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/breaking_news/15673991.htm
Gee, I thought we supported democracy. Since Hamas was democratically elected why do we dictate that they cannot govern:
Rice to meet with Palestinian leaderANNE GEARANAssociated PressJERUSALEM – Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called on Islamic militants to cooperate with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, saying the Hamas government cannot govern in the region.
For a little break from the issues of the day and some fresh perspective from a uniquely American voice.
http://www.claremont.org/writings/crb/fall2006/schramm.html
And before you pass judgement based on the source, read.
Hey heck, do you read my DU links?
Or do you pass judgement on them based on the source?
hee hee hee hee
I’ll read yours if you read mine….
I remember the Hungarian uprising – Molotov cocktails and all. I also remember the US doing nothing.
I skimmed through it. What’s your point?
I, too, remember the Hungarian uprising and the inaction of the United States. From the platform provided by my advanced age, I opine the inaction was the result of nuclear weapons possessed by the Soviets. Perhaps this is why the North Koreans are pursuing their path; truly, as sad a commentary as it is, posession of nuclear weapons does provide a fine defense.
JR
Appreciate what you have. The mythical tyranny and oppression you imagine yourself being a victim of are nothing in comparison to what most in the world suffer.
kfg
I don’t go to DU much anymore. I always leave feeling like I need a shower. Sorry, nothing personal.
AMERICA HELD HOSTAGE:DAY 2082….
Well then sorry, but nothing personal about not reading YOUR links as well.
I hardly think that gives you the moral authority to lecture us about reading biased sources.
KFG
I think that you would appreciate the story, it’s really not related to political affiliation or anything like that, though the author is a Republican. It’s just a good American story.
Fred Phelps is at it again and planning to protest a funeral of one of the girls killed in the PA shooting.
Here’s the article and the link to it. Can the Patriot Guard help with this? Please?!
Kansas church plans to picket girls’ funeralsWednesday, October 04, 2006BY IRVIN KITTRELL IIIOf The Patriot-NewsMembers of a Kansas-based church that has picketed funerals of fallen American soldiers are expected to protest at the funerals of the Amish girls killed Monday in Lancaster County, according to a news release issued by the church.
The Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka blamed Gov. Ed Rendell for the mass murder of the five girls in a one-room schoolhouse because he ridiculed the church on a national television news show, the news release said.
The church said nothing about the man who shot and killed the girls and wounded five other girls. He was identified as Charles Carl Roberts IV of Bart.
Members of the church have been in the national spotlight after picketing at funerals of soldiers killed in action. The church says the military deaths are God’s punishment for tolerance of gay people.
In June, a York County man sued the church, seeking unspecified damages for the messages held by church protesters outside his son’s funeral.
The lawsuit seeks damages for invasion of privacy at the funeral.
About a dozen states, including Pennsylvania, have adopted laws limiting funeral protests at services for soldiers killed in combat.
President Bush signed a bill curbing pickets at national cemeteries.
IRVIN KITTRELL III: 255-8412 or ikittrell@patriot-news.com
“The mythical tyranny and oppression you imagine yourself being a victim of are nothing in comparison to what most in the world suffer.”
Heckler, Paul says we live in the greatest country in the world. True, we don’t have it as bad as others do, but if we continue on our downward spiral of rights and freedom, we won’t continue to be so great.
Sorry, the but the “but we aren’t as bad as THEY are thing” wears thin.
RD
What rights and freedoms have you lost recently?
RD, how about starting with habeas corpus…..
Or maybe the right not to be tortured by our own government?
Come on heck, ask me for the sources. I got more links than you have time to not read them.
kfg
Are you involved with terrorists?
No, are you?
Why do you hate the constitution?
Why do you support the terrorists in hating our freedoms?
Why do you want the terrorists to win by stripping us of habeas corpus, the right to not be tortured, the right of due process?
Why do you love the terrorists?
hee hee hee hee
and notice, he didnt ask for any sources. He knows it is the truth, and so, in typical republican fashion…
…he changes the subject and tries to divert attention from the utterly STUPID question he asked RD.
Re Phelps. As I recall PA has some great deer hunting this time of year. Gee, it would sure be terrible if someone accidentally mistook Pharisee Phred or one of his followerd for a deer!
/sarcasm off
By the way, someone should tell Phelps that the shooter there was HETERO.
Phelps is stooping lower than I ever thought he could. Ben, would you want to split the legal fees needed by the poor unfortunate hunter? [just kidding, of course]
Many of the Amish communities have their own private cemeteries. Hopefully Phelps will have to remain somewhere on public property!
On the other hand, it might be good for Phelps and gang to actually see how real Christians are supposed to behave…
Ick now I feel kinda bad.
I predicted some time ago that Phelps would eventually find an even more outrageous line to cross, like say picketing the funerals of children. I wish had not been right. Despicable.
Heckler? I’ll give you that there are worse places than America to live. So what? We should just be happy with what we got and not try to make it better? No thanks.
Pardon the change of subject, but I just saw that the govt. has finally knuckled under to the voters and is now allowing people to get their prescriptions filled by mail from Canada. This appears to be a real policy change, after seizing over 40,000 prescriptions mailed from Canadian pharmacies, they say they will no longer do that, and allow shipments of up to 90 days supply of meds. This is a real victory for poor people over the corporate interests that were screwing them. I know disabled people whose prescriptions consume over half their monthly incomes.Shows what happens if people scream loud enough!
Jed, pardon my apparent cynicism, but look at the calendar.
Sam,”On the other hand, it might be good for Phelps and gang to actually see how real Christians are supposed to behave… “I wouldn’t count on that! Freddy sees himself as the only true christian.
hee hee hee hee
“Freddy sees himself as the only true christian.”
That sure puts him in good company with some of the christians here, no?
THEY are the only ones allowed to determine who is a real christian and who is not. How many times have we heard nathan, tm, m, outie, etc. say “well, if they say or do that, they are not REAL christians.”
heheheh. I told ya, they share more with fred than they would like to believe.
But of course, with all those logs in their eyes, they probably cant see the comparison…..
Vaughn,Yes, I looked at the calendar and noted the upcoming election. Of course it’s an election ploy; that doesn’t make it less a victory! Maybe we should have elections often enough so our politicians have to listen to us year round to keep their phoney baloney jobs.
Jed, I truly hope this is a victory, one not of the Phyrric kind. I am still looking for an announcement by Big Pharma (assuming its $$ buy the right outcome of the midterm elections) that they cannot keep selling to the Canadians in quantities equal to those of the past, which will eventually render the victory hollow.
Kfg
Ok, give me the source showing me that someone took your habeous corpus. I’m pretty damn sure that it does not apply to you, unless of course you are involved with a terrorist group.
Heck, I have provided a ton of links.
You first.
KFG
Me first what? What do you want from me?
“and notice, he didnt ask for any sources. He knows it is the truth, and so, in typical republican fashion…”
I’m asking for a link to the information that says you lost habeous corpus.
KFG, ARE YOU BEING HECKLED?Wish I had a little time to play he said–she said, right now.Maybe later.
President George W. Bush:”If you don’t think we should be listening in on the terrorist, then you ought to vote for the Democrats. If you want your government to continue listening in when al-Qaeda planners are making phone calls into the United States, then you vote Republican.”
People, it is so simple…
Sure Steven. Great advice from the “Mission Accomplished” crowd. By the way, how is the WMD search going?
Heckler:The various issues surrounding Habeas Corpus and the new legislation is explained in this A.P. article.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/02/AR2006100201274.html
The new legislation allows Bush to define who is an enemy combatant and what the definition of torture is. Given that enemy combatants are denied habeas corpus, Bush can define who an enemy combatant is — and if he wants to aggressively interrogate in any way he sees fit, it is thus theoretically possible that KFG could be denied her habeas corpus rights. The same way you or I could.
I am pretty sure this legislative blank check given to GWB will be overturned by the courts. Even congressmen voting on it think so, too. I think legislators voted for it for fear of getting a Karl Rove hit this election season that they were wanting to be soft on terrorists. I am surprised with a 39% approval rating that Bush can pull this type of stuff off. His unpopularity makes him radio-active on the campaign trail. Repub candidates will take the money he raises, but don’t want to be seen in the same room as him.
Steven
I assume that KFG is an American citizen. Unless she’s caught fighting against us on the side of the Taliban in Afghanistan(there’s a mental picture) I don’t think that she can be declared an enemy combatant. You still have to meet the definition of enemy combatant do you not? Thus as long as KFG hangs around in Kansas this does not apply to her. That was the point I was trying to make to her. But she seems to have left the building.
What I want to know on this habeas corpus subject is how was it that John McCain and Graham stood up to the president on his unreasonable power grab. I can’t see how he could have been given more, unless of course, they were to stipulate that he could authorize what thoughts we citizens could have.
I will look for a link supporting this – my understanding is that American citizens were specifically included in the legislation. Let me look, though.
How many years does it take to be declared an enemy combatant?Remember all these groups that have been arrested, after investigation turned out to be nothing. How many people were arrested and later released from the gel explosive incident?
There is no way to fully protect us from terrorism. This security circus is utterly ridiculous.
Heckler, you might wish to rethink your assumptions as to what makes one an “enemy combatant”. It is my understanding that the new bill does allow the President to declare enemy combatatnt status on whomever he or she sees fit. While there are a few U.S. Supreme Court cases dealing with a legal definition of “enemy combatant”, with habeas corpus blocked, judicial review of such unilateral declarations becomes nigh impossible, even if one is an American citizen.
For those of us who remember the Nixon administration “enemies list” and the abuse of the IRS, these powers make our blood run cold. Even if you have no idea about that to which I am referring, these powers should cause you to stop and consider the possible ramifications of such bill.
I hope the courts knock it down; I am fearful that the judiciary won’t.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103×238300
“an individual engaged in hostilities against the United States who is not a lawful enemy combatant.”This basically means that if a person is not a soldier in the service of a foreign government, but is nevertheless engaging in “hostilities” against the United States, then this person is an unlawful enemy combatant. Notice that this definition does not require that such a person be an “alien,” which accordingly leaves open the possibility that this designation could also be applied to an American citizen.
http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/new-bill-could-define-anti-war-protestors-as-enemy-combatants
Attorneys for the Center for Constitutional Rights claim that what appears to be the final version of the Military Commissions Act of 2006 could allow the government to detain the attorneys themselves as ‘enemy combatants.’ CCR Legal Director Bill Goodman said: “This bill makes a mockery of the rule of law.”
The current version of the Military Commissions redefines an “unlawful enemy combatant” so broadly that it could include anyone who organizes a march against the war in Iraq. The bill defines a UEC as “a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States” or anyone who “has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the President or the Secretary of Defense of the United States.” The definition makes no reference to citizenship and therefore could be read to include any number of individuals, including:
This is a .pdf of the Military Commission Act of 2006. On page 3 “enemy combantant” is defined. One is required to be fighting for or assisting in some way a terrorist organization. American citizens ARE NOT specifically EXCLUDED.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=109_cong_bills&docid=f:h6054ih.txt.pdf
Using Bush’s outrageous quote above about Democrats facilitating terrorism, is it not possible that if the Democratic opponent in 2008 is leading the Republican candidate that they might be subject to this act? I wonder if the Red Cross will be able to visit John Kerry in Guantanamo?
Better not criticize Cheney …
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5039230,00.html
Arrest over Cheney barb triggers lawsuit
By Charlie Brennan, Rocky Mountain NewsOctober 3, 2006A Denver-area man filed a lawsuit today against a member of the Secret Service for causing him to be arrested after he approached Vice President Dick Cheney in Beaver Creek this summer and criticized him for his policies concerning Iraq.Attorney David Lane said that on June 16, Steve Howards was walking his 7-year-old son to a piano practice, when he saw Cheney surrounded by a group of people in an outdoor mall area, shaking hands and posing for pictures with several people.According to the lawsuit filed at U.S. District Court in Denver, Howards and his son walked to about two-to-three feet from where Cheney was standing, and said to the vice president, “I think your policies in Iraq are reprehensible,” or words to that effect, then walked on.Ten minutes later, according to Howards’ lawsuit, he and his son were walking back through the same area, when they were approached by Secret Service agent Virgil D. “Gus” Reichle Jr., who asked Howards if he had “assaulted” the vice president. Howards denied doing so, but was nonetheless placed in handcuffs and taken to the Eagle County Jail.The lawsuit states that the Secret Service agent instructed that Howards should be issued a summons for harassment, but that on July 6 the Eagle County District Attorney’s Office dismissed all charges against Howards.The lawsuit filed today alleges that Howards was arrested in retaliation for having exercised his First Amendment right of free speech, and that his arrest violated his Fourth Amendment protection against unlawful seizure.
Arrests for free speech? Has the Bush administration hired thought police, yet?
I posted a reference to 1984 on the dubious headlines before even reading this.
Yes, Steven, the chocolate ration is up.
I can’t see the Patriot Guard going into action in PA. Primarily, we only go where specifically invited by the family of the deceased. And the Amish tend to keep to themselves.
Also, I doubt the Amish would need the Patriot Guard. They would look at the cult with sadness and ask forgiveness for them.
Amazing difference…one religious group teaches love and forgiveness, the other is a cultred of hatred. That cult is sickening and sinking lower.
By the way, folks, “unlawful enemy combatant,” like the “war on terrorism,” is an invention to produce fresh law and ignore existing law. Unlawful combatants are to be legal nonpersons, whom we can with whatever we wish, just as the “war on terror” conveniently avoid the rules of either war or law enforcement.
Fortunately, we have morons like Paul to inform us how the Constitution doesn’t apply to anyone we kidnap and torture. By his logic, nothing would stop the U.S. government from invading, say, France, capturing known liberals, and giving them the ‘enemy combatant’ treatment.
While citizens have privileges and immunities that non-citizens don’t (e.g. voting), there’s nothing in our Constitution that limits its protections to Americans, particular when the person in question is FORCED under our jurisdiction.
But then, maybe illegal immigrants charged with crimes could just be executed without trial (I suspect some people here in Arizona might like that!).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZQI0Xm29To&mode=related&search=
just hired by the bush administration
God said, that’s enough!—-
By Patricia SullivanWashington Post Staff WriterWednesday, October 4, 2006; Page B07
Helen Chenoweth-Hage, 68, the arch-conservative Idaho Republican whose deep suspicion of the government and federal law enforcement carried her to three terms in Congress, died Oct. 2 in a car crash near Tonopah, Nev.
Ms. Chenoweth-Hage, a passenger in a 1999 Ford Expedition driven by her daughter-in-law, was en route to Tonopah about noon Monday and was holding her 5-month-old grandson on her lap.
The driver, Yelena Hage, lost control of the vehicle, causing it to roll over, the Nevada Highway Patrol reported.
Ms. Chenoweth-Hage, who was not wearing a seat belt, was thrown from the vehicle and died at the scene. The baby and his mother were not seriously hurt.She served from 1995 to 2001 as an unabashed opponent of laws that limited personal freedom, attracted much support from the militia fringe movement that found a home in the interior West during the 1990s.
In turn, she scolded Congress after the Oklahoma City federal building bombing for not trying to understand anti-government activists.
She also held hearings on “black helicopters,” which militia members believed were filled with United Nations-sponsored storm troopers eager to swoop into the broken-down ranches of the rural West and impose international law. The helicopters were piloted by state wildlife officers patrolling for poachers, National Guardsmen looking for marijuana farms or military aircraft from nearby bases on training missions.
Her extreme positions so alarmed environmentalists and liberals that former Idaho governor Cecil D. Andrus said that if she were to come across a brush fire, her instinct would be to douse it with a pail of gasoline. But her advocacy of issues important to militia supporters didn’t seem to bother her more traditionally conservative constituents.
Idaho’s wild salmon were not endangered, she said, because she could buy salmon in cans at the grocery store (although what she was buying was farm-raised or Alaskan salmon, which are not endangered). The Internal Revenue Service should be abolished and income taxes replaced with sales taxes, she argued. Yellowstone National Park should be opened to hunters who could kill wolves and elk.
And on a proposal to reintroduce bears in the Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness: “Introducing grizzlies into Idaho is like pouring a toxic substance into a water supply,” she said. “It may only kill one [person] in 10,000 or so, but it is still not a good thing to do.”
In the mid-1990s, when three Bureau of Land Management and Forest Service offices in the West were firebombed and federal wildlife managers were threatened with death, she introduced a bill that would have required federal agents to get permission from local sheriffs before they could make an arrest or conduct a search on public land.
Civil rights laws protect everyone except white Anglo-Saxon males, she said in 1994. Idaho, which was 96.3 percent white at the time, had plenty of ethnic diversity, she said, although “the warm-climate community just hasn’t found the colder climate that attractive. It’s an area of America that has simply never attracted the Afro-American or the Hispanic.”
She was born in Topeka, Kan., grew up in Oregon and attended Whitworth College in Spokane, Wash. She managed a medical center in Idaho before her election as executive director of the state Republican Party. She was chief of staff, then campaign manager, for Rep. Steven D. Symms (R-Idaho), before running for Congress.
Ms. Chenoweth-Hage, who insisted on the title “Congressman,” believed that most abortions should be illegal and that the government should not pay for abortions for poor women, even in cases of rape or incest. The Scriptures, she asserted, had anointed women as the world’s moral guardians.
Days after she ran television ads attacking President Bill Clinton for having an affair with a White House intern, and urging him to resign, she admitted that she had a long-term affair in the 1980s with a married man. The admission didn’t hurt her or her family-values platform; she was reelected to her third and final term in 1998.
Her marriage to Nick Chenoweth ended in divorce. Her second husband, Wayne Hage, was a Nevada rancher who was the best-known face of the Sagebrush Rebellion, a movement against what was considered to be excessive federal control over western lands. He died in June.
Survivors, in addition to her grandson, include a son and a daughter from her first marriage.
I want to thank WE for moving up to a daily Open Thread. This is what the Internet-enabled 21st century media is about: allowing us ordinary people to have a voice. We represent a broad range of political positions, ideas, and ways of expressing ourselves.
The numbers of blog-posters is increasing rapidly. A mere three months ago there weren’t many of us posting here, but all kinds of people have joined, and I’ll bet the number of readers who have not yet decided to say anything is growing exponentially. A lot of them are going to become active participants. Whether this will eventually translate into more people engaging in the political process is an open question, but importantly, IDEAS ARE BEING EXPRESSED AND CONSIDERED. In addition to what is said here, readers are being given links to other sites that they’ve never heard about. I’ll wager that many of us have bookmarked some.
What this really represents is a learning tree. And we get to climb and explore it.
Thanks again to the WE editors.
Here is something inspirational from Sports Illustrated and YouTube.
[From Sports Illustrated, By Rick Reilly]
I try to be a good father. Give my kids mulligans.Work nights to pay for their text messaging. Take them to swimsuit shoots.
But compared with Dick Hoyt, I suck.
Eighty-five times he’s pushed his disabled son,Rick, 26.2 miles in Marathons. Eight times he’s not only pushed him 26.2 miles in awheelchair but also towed him 2.4 miles in a dinghy while swimming and pedaled him 112 miles in a seat on the handlebars–all in the sameday. Dick’s also pulled him cross-country skiing,taken him on his back mountain climbing and once hauled him across the U.S. on a bike. Makestaking your son bowling look a little lame, right?
And what has Rick done for his father? Not much–except save his life.
This love story began in Winchester, Mass., 43 years ago, when Rick was strangled by the umbilical cord during birth,leaving him brain-damaged and unable to control his limbs.
“He’ll be a vegetable the rest of his life,” Dicksays doctors told him and his wife Judy, when Rick was nine months old, “Put him in anInstitution.” But the Hoyts weren’t buying it. Theynoticed the way Rick’s eyes followed them around the room. When Rick was 11 they tookhim to the Engineering department at Tufts University [in Boston] and asked if there was anything to help the boy communicate. “No way,” Dick says he wastold. “There’s nothing going on in his brain.”
“Tell him a joke,” Dick countered. They did. Rick laughed.
Turns out a lot was going on in his brain. Rigged up with a computer that allowed him to control the cursor by touching a switch with the sideof his head, Rick was finally able to communicate. First words? “GoBruins!”‘
And after a high school classmate was paralyzed in an accident and the School organized a charity run for him, Rick pecked out,
“Dad, I want to do that.”
Yeah right. How was Dick, a self-described “porker” who never ran more than a mile at a time, going to push his son five miles?
Still, he tried. “Then it was me who washandicapped,” Dick says. “I was sore for two weeks.”
That day changed Rick’s life. “Dad,” he typed, “When we were running, it felt like I wasn’t disabled anymore!”
And that sentence changed Dick’s life. He becameobsessed with giving Rick that feeling as often as he could. He got into such hard-belly shape that he and Rick were ready to try the 1979 BostonMarathon.
“No way,” Dick was told by a race official. The Hoyts weren’t quite a single runner, andthey weren’t quite a wheelchair competitor. For a few years Dick and Rick just joined the massive field and ran anyway, then they found a way to get into the race officially: In 1983 they ran another marathon so fast they madethe qualifying time for Boston the following year.
Then somebody said, “Hey Dick, why not a triathlon?”
How’s a guy who never learned to swim and hadn’t ridden a bike since he was six going tohaul his 110-pound kid through a triathlon? Still Dick tried. Now they’ve done 212 triathlons, including four grueling 15-hour Ironmans in Hawaii. It must be a buzzkill to be a 25-year-old stud getting passed by an old guy towing a grown man in a dinghy,don’t you think?
Hey Dick, why not see how you’d do on your own? “No way,” he says. Dick does it purely for “the awesome feeling”‘ he gets seeing Rick with a cantaloupe smile as they run, swim and ride together.
This year at ages 65 and 43, Dick and Rick finished their 24th Boston Marathon in 5,083rd place out of more than 20,000 starters. Their besttime? Two hours, 40 minutes in 1992–only 35 minutes off the world record which in case you don’t keep track of these things happens to be held by a guy who was not pushing another man in a wheelchair at the time.
“No question about it,” Rick types. “My dad is theFather of the Century.”
And Dick got something else out of all this too. Two years ago he had a mild heart attack during a race. Doctors found that one of hisarteries was 95% clogged.
“If you hadn’t been in such great shape,” one doctor told him, “you probably would’ve died 15 years ago.” So in a way, Dick and Rick saved each other’s life.
Rick, who has his own apartment (he gets home care) and works in Boston, and Dick, retired from the military and living in Holland, Mass., alwaysfind ways to be together. They give speeches around the country and compete in some backbreaking race every weekend,including this Father’s Day. That night, Rick will buy his dad dinner, but the thing he really wants to give him is a gift he can never buy. “The thing I’d most like,” Rick types, “is that my dad sit in the chair and I push him once.”—————————————Here is the video link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4B-r8KJhlE
The American Civil Liberties Union of South Central KansasPresents a public forum on some things one should never discuss in public:SEX, RELIGION AND KANSAS POLITICSThursday, October 26, 2006 at 7 PMIn the Gymnasium at theHughes Metropolitan ComplexWichita State University5015 E 29 Street N at OliverSpeakersJulie Burkhart Executive Director, ProKanDoPeter Brownlee President & CEO, Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid-MissouriBrett Shirk Executive Director, ACLU of Kansas and Western MissouriThomas Witt State Chair, Kansas Equality CoalitionMarla Patrick President, Kansas National Organization for WomenModerated by Jim LawingThe speakers will answer questions from the audience following the panel discussion.Co-sponsors: ProKanDo, Kansas Choice Alliance, Kansas NOW,Kansas Equality Coalition, Global Issues Group, Peace and Social Justice CenterFree and open to the public
http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/
Sunday, October 01, 2006PROPAGANDA WARSTraditionally, guerrilla wars are fought in the moral sphere. This means that the side that can hold together its moral cohesion the longest, while simultaneously fragmenting its opponents, will come out the winner (I think this is shifting, but we can save that thought for later).From this grain of truth, the US government/military reached (primarily due to hindsight bias re:Vietnam) the conclusion that moral conflicts are won through propaganda. In other words, the side with the better propaganda machine wins the war. These organizations are implementing this conclusion in this conflict. Everything from embedded journalists to continuously rosy statements (such as “the tide of history is on our side,” “the insurgency’s back is broken,” “just a few more months and the turning point will be reached,” etc.) to pro-war bloggers that regurgitate talking points are part of a propaganda effort deemed necessary to win our current conflict. However, this decision to build a propaganda machine isn’t showing signs of working. The reason is that a propaganda campaign within the current complex, global and media/information saturated environment is not only foolish, it is downright dangerous. Why? Here are the reasons:
It generates dissent faster than it solidifies support. People have access to so many alternative sources of information, that any concerted attempt to spin facts is quickly seen for what it is: deception. The result is that non-cooperative centers of gravity are generated (first globally and then domestically) so quickly, that the very moral cohesion sought is the first victim of the effort.Propaganda efforts destroy effective decision making. The US military’s approach to this propaganda war has been to trot out generals at every opportunity to provide upbeat and positive assessments (the most negative statement is blandly neutral). Anything less would be seen as a negative in the moral conflict and thereby disloyal. This has the unintended consequence of clouding internal decision loops. In the business world this is called “drinking your own kool-aid” (in a cold reference to the Jamestown religious cult where the members committed suicide by drinking poisoned kool-aid). Facts are misinterpreted/misrepresented for marketing externally, these tainted facts are consumed by internal audiences, and bad internal decision making is the result (”we don’t need more troops,” “we should stick it out since it will get better soon,” “more of the same will work,” etc.). This is pure poison given the complexity of modern counter-insurgency.Natural allies are quickly turned into enemies. Since propaganda is central to the US war effort, any criticism (from any quarter) is seen as something that aids and abets the enemy (”if you are not with us, you are against us”). A good rule of thumb (and this applies to all organizations and not just the US military/government), is that the best people don’t work for you. However, it also follows that they aren’t necessarily working against you either, and they could provide you substantial benefit to you if properly enticed (this is something that has become a central aspect of most organizations in our heavily cross connected world). Propaganda alienates this group since they aren’t seen as being on the “team.”
moxie_mama,
Thank you for the announcement. I’m putting it down on my calender.
Whoa!
At right about 9:32 PM Wednesday typepad or the Eagle changed the screen display.
I aint sure I like it.
Right on, Andy Rooney!
Andy Rooney said on “60 Minutes” a few weeks back:
I don’t think being a minority makes you a victim of anything except numbers. The only things I can think of that are truly discriminatory are things like the United Negro College Fund, Jet Magazine, Black Entertainment Television, and Miss Black America. Try to have things like the UnitedCaucasianCollege Fund, Cloud Magazine, White Entertainment Television, or Miss White America; and see what happens…Jesse Jackson will be knocking down your door.
Guns do not make you a killer. I think killing makes you a killer. You can kill someone with a baseball bat or a car, but no one is trying to ban you from driving to the ball game.
I believe they are called the Boy Scouts for a reason, that is why there are no girls allowed. Girls belong in the Girl Scouts! ARE YOU LISTENING MARTHA BURKE?
I think that if you feel homosexuality is wrong, it is not a phobia, it is an opinion.
I have the right “NOT” to be tolerant of others because they are different, weird, or tick me off.
When 70% of the people who get arrested are black, in cities where 70% of the population is black, that is not racial profiling, it is the Law of Probability.
I believe that if you are selling me a milkshake, a pack of cigarettes, a newspaper or a hotel room, you must do it in English! As a matter of fact, if you want to be an American citizen, you should have to speak English!
My father and grandfather didn’t die in vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come over and disrespect ours.
I think the police should have every right to shoot your sorry ass if you threaten them after they tell you to stop. If you can’t understand the word “freeze” or “stop” in English, see the above lines
I don’t think just because you were not born in this country, you are qualified for any special loan programs, government sponsored bank loans or tax breaks, etc., so you can open a hotel, coffee shop, trinket store, or any other business.
We did not go to the aid of certain foreign countries and risk our lives in wars to defend their freedoms, so that decades later they could come over here and tell us our constitution is a living document; and open to their interpretations.
I don’t hate the rich I don’t pity the poor.
I know pro wrestling is fake, but so are movies and television. That doesn’t stop you from watching them.
I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continue to make more. If it ticks you off, go and invent the next operating system that’s better, and put your name on the building.
It doesn’t take a whole village to raise a child right, but it does take a parent to stand up to the kid; and smack their little behinds when necessary, and say “NO!”
I think tattoos and piercing are fine if you want them, but please don’t pretend they are a political statement. And, please, stay home until that new lip ring heals. I don’t want to look at your ugly infected mouth as you serve me French fries!
I am sick of “Political Correctness.” I know a lot of black people, and not a single one of them was born in Africa ; so how can they be “African-Americans”? Besides, Africa is a continent. I don’t go around saying I am a European-American because my great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather was from Europe. I am proud to be from America and nowhere else
And if you don’t like my point of view, tough…
There can be no further doubt or dithering. Conservative republicans are the true enemies.They must be opposed and deposed and attacked and if need be blasted from the surface of the Earth.
Anyone familiar with Andy Rooney should have smelled bullshit on Tony’s post above (is that really you, Tony?). Sure enough, it was:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/rooney4.asp
Oh wait, it’s a different Tony (just checked the email address).
Thought so.
P.S. How open is it, Dave? I think you know (snicker!). Phil and the gang posted during the “live blog” in January, but they’ve confined their comments to their regular posts since then (can’t say as blame ‘em! :-)
But feel free to jump in anytime if you like!
Humbly requesting the right wings on this blog to defend this:http://awful.smashtech.net/files/90/90b02176563560809bece49b56669f10333a6305.jpg
I’m curious to see how many chalk it up to “honest mistake” and continue to insist on the fairness and balancedness of Fox News.
Tara,
The directory isn’t allowing the rest of us to view it. . .
dang blog is broken
Tara – your link won’t open. Is that the one where FAUX News claimed that Foley was a Democrat? Comes as absolutely no surprise to me. Since the information is probably copyrighted I would guess that FAUX got the site blocked.
I see today that Matt Drudge is claiming that everyone was at least 18. We’ll see how that one works out.
Sorry, yes. It was a screenshot of the Foley (D-Florida) that was aired on fox news several times.
Dishonest slugs.
Well hey there Tara! We don’t cross paths often.
Mrage got us that dishonest Fox pic on one of the Foley threads. So we did get to see it. I think that pretty much ends any claims of “fair and balanced”. Heckler tried to call it a “glitch”. But he was not anymore convincing than he usually is. The rest of the right chose not to answer. I don’t blame them. Well I do blame them but I understand their silence.
Faux news: Celebrating 10 years of “we distort you comply”
Hey Tara? Draw them a picture: )
I think it’s an honest mistake. I mean there would be no point in labeling Foley a Democrat when EVERYONE knows that he is a Republican.
Will
Fox news viewers do not know anything that Fox news does not tell them
Fox “news” has capitalized on the short attention span of overworked Americans.
Fox news gives them a blare of thundering music, a sound and video bite punctuated by whoosh noises and sends them on their way.
SO what viewers of FOX get is:
Blaring music.”…Foley……pedophile……..(at this point viewer actually looks at screen and sees a picture of Foley with D Florida underneath) resigns……Democrats demand ………” whoosh noise blaring music.
Propoganda pure and simple.
“Heckler tried to call it a “glitch”. But he was not anymore convincing than he usually is.”
heheheheh
Hey JR, an even better one is TM on another thread saying it was PROBABLY done by an intern.
heheheh.
I love watching them defend the indefensible.
Heckler and Hank were also trumpeting a Drudge Report claim that this whole thing was a joke! That seems to have died on the vine.
http://www.harpers.org/sb-meet-the-counterterrorism-1158675678.html
More than half of all employees at the National Counterterrorism Center (NCC) are outside contractors, and the former head of the NCC, John Brennan, is now the CEO of Analysis Corp, which supplies contract analysts to the center. The use of contractors is especially heavy at the CIA. Abraxas Corp, a firm conveniently located near the agency in McLean, Virginia, and home to many former CIA veterans, creates false identities for an elite group of overseas case officers.Contractors have at times outnumbered CIA employees at key stations like Baghdad and Islamabad. In Baghdad, contractors aren’t simply performing bureaucratic functions; they recruit informants, manage relationships with the military, and “handle agents in support of frontline combat units.”Senior U.S. intelligence officials told the Times that agencies have become so dependent on contractors that they could no longer function without them. “If you took away the contractor support, they’d have to put yellow tape around the building and close it down,” a former CIA official told the newspaper.One former senior CIA official told me that the implications of the “enhanced revolving door” are being felt in a broad variety of ways. “There are many people inside who aspire to work for a private contractor because—overnight—they can at least double their earnings,” he said. “It undermines morale and doesn’t build a competent system. But the bigger story is that this is symptomatic of a new ‘counterterrorism-industrial complex’ that’s popping up and that is starting to look a lot like Eisenhower’s military-industrial complex. It’s a multibillion dollar industry and it’s beginning to drive policy.”
* * *
A great way to funnel money to political allies.
“I think it’s an honest mistake. I mean there would be no point in labeling Foley a Democrat when EVERYONE knows that he is a Republican.”
Posted by: Will | October 05, 2006 at 10:31 PM
Former Florida Rep. Mark Foley’s biggest mistake was being a Republican. If he was only a Democrat, he could still be in congress. He would only have to accept a censure, receive a standing ovation from his fellow Democrats and continue to be voted back in at each election. Newspapers across the country would come to his defense. If only he was a Democrat.
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