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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Oct. 21, 2006 at 1:04 a.m.
- Filed under Uncategorized
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66 Comments
Quote of the Day:
When the veil of fiction was rent, man shuddered before “Nature, red in tooth and claw.” Nature had always been that and always will be, and the hands of man, even when he fashions and defends the noblest civilization, must forever be bloody hands, for this is a world in which only the strong and resolute nations survive, while the weak, especially the morally weak, who babble about brotherhood and peace, are biologically degenerate and doomed to extinction. Prof. Revilo P. Oliver
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!
For those who don’t support Bush, here’s a photo that will make you go hmmmmmm. (Note what the podium says where he’s sitting.)
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/061017/480/14aa49827bca4f56b75c5d28f5f95bc1;_ylt=Av_h6cSgngjwzigYB1mnP4uWwvIE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3bGk2OHYzBHNlYwN0bXA-
If I discover the link doesn’t work, I’ll try to redo.
yea, protecting americans my rear. When you get “detained” and are allowed no counsel and are “waterboarded” then come back and tell me that he is protecting you.
How many friends do you have that has happened to?Some people act like this is some kind of epidemic. Like the Jews/Christians/Agnostics/Atheists/Democrats are being rounded up and taken to concentration camps.And if that’s true, how come you lefty bloggers weren’t first on the list?
More evidence of the Coddlecrats seemingly rooting for the terrorists instead of the Country. The hate Bush theme rules over their common sense.
The only thing stupider than thinking the bill that Bush is signing will “protect America” is believing anything that the Bush administration says:
Bush lie–”The vast majority of my tax cuts go to those at the bottom.”
Fact–Fifty percent of the benefits went to the top one percent of income earners.
Bush lie–”my tax cut plan lowers taxes for everyone who pays taxes.”
Fact–many lower income and middle-class tax payers got no tax cut because they were excluded from claiming child-care tax.
Bush lie–”We can’t wait for the final proof, the smoking gun, to come in the form of a mushroom cloud over an American city.”
Fact–Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction and no way of deploying them if he did.
Bush Lie–”for those who say we haven’t found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they’re wrong. We found them.”
Fact–Handpicked administration teams on the ground found no WMD’s after years of trying.
Bush Lie–”The IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency) has said that Iraq may be six months away from an atomic bomb.”
Fact–they said exactly the opposite. Close monitoring shows that Iraq has no possibility of building atomic weapons.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/04/07/0317243
Cheney lie: “We believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons.” NBC’s Meet the Press, March 16, 2003
When confronted with the IAEA evidence, Rumsfeld lied–”I don’t believe anyone that I know in the administration ever said that Iraq had nuclear weapons.”
Fact–See Cheney quote above.
Cheney lie–”There can be NO DOUBT that Saddam Hussein has WMD’s.”
Fact–no WMD’s were ever found.
Rumsfeld lie–”We KNOW WHERE THEY ARE, they’re north and east and west of Baghdad.”
Fact–no WMD’s were ever found.
Bush lie–”By 2024, the entire system of Social Security will be exhausted and bankrupt.”
Well, that’s better than before. In 1977, he said that Social Security would be bankrupt in ten years.
Fact–Under worst case scenarios, SS will still generate 3/4ths of its costs by 2042 even if Congress does nothing.
Condi Rice lie–”I never met with Sandy Berger about a terrorism plan.”
Fact–White House logs show the meeting did take place.
Cheney lie–”Iraq is the heart of the base for Al Qaeda.”
Fact–Even the pResident had to admit that Saddam Hussein was not tied to the 9-11 terrorists.
Wolfowitz lie–The reconstruction of Irq will be paid for by Iraqi oil revenue.
Fact–The continued occupation of Iraq costs the American taxpayer 1.1 BILLION dollars a week. Forty percent of that goes to private American contractors.
*****
How many times do you have to get hit over the head before you see who’s hitting you?
Harry S Truman
Hotlick and his ilk are willing to shed the last drop of SOMEONE ELSE’S BLOOD to occupy Iraq.
They won’t even pay for it, and just rack it up to national debt.
Chicken hawk Republican.
1) Nobody has been drafted2) Nobody wants to occupy Iraq3) We are paying for it, the national debt argument is weak4)You want us to lose to make Bush look bad.Chicken Liberal
hotlick,
Bush doesn’t need us to make him look bad. He does that very well on his own.
captain a moron, where are you getting your facts? From moveon.orgHe used wmd’s on the kurds.
I notice that you don’t refute you people wanting us to lose.It’s sad.
Sad but true, you must remember we are the most evil country on the face of the planet according to the Libs.!
Why is it that people who don’t support this administration do it with facts and people who do support this administration do it with name-calling, insults and lies?
hotlick – I would love to see us succeed in Iraq and elsewhere. Problem is, I have no faith in our current ‘leadership’ to accomplish that. If they could prove me wrong I would celebrate.
For some reason, Ben, I am almost inclined to believe you. Though you are in the awful company of people who do not think that way.
This is a link to the Lancet study which states that 600K Iraqis have died since the 2003 invasion. I am not familiar with sampling technique, but thought others here might be interested in the original souce:
http://download.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/0140-6736/PIIS0140673606694919.pdf
The title of the article is:
Mortality after the 2003 invasion of Iraq: a cross-sectional cluster sample survey.
The lead author is in the Public Health Dept. at Johns Hopkins. I am hoping to come to some kind of opinion about the appropriateness of the methodology. You might recall, Bush, last week, disputed the author’s findings, but he failed to explain where he thought they went wrong.
More bad news for Bush …
Hutchison: WMD info swayed vote on Iraq
By SUZANNE GAMBOA, Associated Press WriterFri Oct 20, 7:43 PM ET
WASHINGTON – Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison (news, bio, voting record), one of President Bush’s most ardent loyalists on the war in Iraq, voiced her strongest criticism yet of the administration’s reasons for going to war.
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/10/21/another-key-gop-senator-speaks-out-against-iraq-war/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.yahoo.com%2Fs%2Fap%2F20061020%2Fap_on_go_co%2Fhutchison_iraq%3B_ylt%3DApyNqIpo0_s9jK2BrkMo0u6yFz4D%3B_ylu%3DX3oDMTA0cDJlYmhvBHNlYwM-&frame=true
One thiong that particularly troubles me is that we are snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in Afghanistan. I had supported that invasion as needed and had thought we were well on the way to ‘winning the peace’ there when we decided to largely abandon it.
hotlick – show me someone saying “I want America to lose”.
So far I haven’t seen anything to discredit their sampling technique. in fact the U.S. State Department uses the very same technique in similar situations (warzones).
Neither extreme left nor right …
The Lancet—then and now
When Thomas Wakley founded The Lancet in 1823, he announced “A lancet can be an arched window to let in the light or it can be a sharp surgical instrument to cut out the dross and I intend to use it in both senses”. This philosophy remains at the heart of the journal today.
The Lancet first appeared on Oct 5, 1823. From the beginning, Wakley’s aim was to entertain, instruct, and reform. Instruction came in the form of transcribed medical lectures from the London teaching establishment; entertainment in the early days of the journal came in the form of theatre reviews and piquant political comment. The Lancet has been, first and foremost, a reformist medical newspaper. Thomas Wakley and his successors aimed to combine publication of the best medical science in the world with a zeal to counter the forces that undermine the values of medicine, be they political, social, or commercial.
More news from Iraq. What can we do to fix this? Isn’t there anything else besides “Stay the course?”
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1904962.ece
Medics beg for help as Iraqis die needlessly
Half of all deaths preventable, say country’s medicsReconstruction seen as disaster
More than 2,000 doctors and nurses are killed18,000 more leave the nationEven the most basic treatments are lackingBy Jeremy Laurance, Health EditorPublished: 20 October 2006
The disintegration of Iraq’s health service is leaving its civilians defenceless in the continuing violence that is rocking the country, Iraqi doctors warn today.
As many as half of the civilian deaths, calculated at 655,000 since the 2003 invasion, might have been avoided if proper medical care had been provided to the victims, they say.
In separate appeals, the doctors beg for help to stem the soaring death rate and ease the suffering of injured families and children. They say governments and the international medical community are ignoring their plight.
In the first 14 months after the 2003 invasion almost $20bn (£11bn) was spent on reconstruction by the British and American funds, including hundreds of millions on rebuilding and re-equipping the country’s network of 180 hospitals and clinics.
But billions went missing because of a combination of criminal activity, corruption, and incompetence, leaving Iraqis without even the essentials for basic medical care.
The violence for which the Allied forces failed to plan has meant a $200m reconstruction project for building 142 primary care centres ran out of cash earlier this year with just 20 on course to be completed, an outcome the World Health Organisation described as “shocking”.
In March, the campaign group Medact said 18,000 physicians had left the country since 2003, an estimated 250 of those that remained had been kidnapped and, in 2005 alone, 65 killed.
Medact also said “easily treatable conditions such as diarrhoea and respiratory illness caused 70 per cent of all child deaths”, and that ” of the 180 health clinics the US hoped to build by the end of 2005, only four have been completed and none opened”.
Medical Notes:
34,000 The number of Iraqi physicians registered before the 2003 war.
18,000 The estimated number of Iraqi physicians who have left since the 2003 invasion.
2,000 The estimated number of Iraqi physicians murdered since 2003.
250 The number of Iraqi physicians kidnapped.
34 The number of reconstructive surgeons in Iraq before the 2003 invasion.
20 The number who have either been murdered of fled. 72 per cent of Iraqis needing reconstructive surgery are suffering from gunshot or blast wounds.
164 The number of nurses murdered – 77 wounded.
$243,000,000 The amount of money set aside by US administration to build 142 private health clinics in post-invastion Iraq.
20 The number of such clinics built by April 2006.
$0 The amount of money left over.
$1bn The amount of money the US administration has spent on Iraq’s healthcare system.
$8bn The amount of money needed over the next 4 years to fund the health care system
70 the percentage of deaths among children caused by “easily treatable conditions” such as diarrhoea and respiratory illnesses.
270,000 The number of children born after 2003 who have had no immunisations.
HEALTH INDICATORS:
68 per cent of Iraqis with no access to safe drinking water.
19 per cent of Iraqis with sewerage access.
One of the great ideas that came from Bush Coalition Provisional Authority was to require injured Iraqis to pay up front for medical care. They thought privatization would answer all the problems. We see how well THAT has worked out.
To paraphrase hotlick above:
More evidence of the BushBots seemingly rooting for the Iraqi civiians to die. The hate Muslim theme rules over their common sense.
Devastatingly sad figures Ben. We have SO broken Iraq which was a shaky society at best anyway. I cannot imagine it can ever be repaired.
There are some US corporate concerns with a very vested interest with “trying”.
Part of the clustering method reminds me of the sample stratification used in polls here. They would randomly select clusters (which amounted to 40 households) by selecting the number of clusters per city as proportional to the population of Iraq as a whole.
The authors randomly selected a geographic point as the start of their cluster and would then go to 40 surrounding households of those willing to participate. (they carefully define households; they report household declines, etc.)
The authors completed surveys in 1849 households and surveyed 12801 household members – average size household = 6.9 people. Their decline rate was 0.8% – a very low rate. The surveyors were all physicians fluent in english and arabic.
The surveyors collected info on pre and post invasion deaths. In 87% of the cases (households) the reported deaths were confirmed with death certificates — patterns of reported deaths not confirmed with certificates were not different than those so confirmed.
From the study:”Of post-invasion deaths, 601027 [95% Confidence Interval = 426369-79366] were due to violence, the most common being gunfire.”
Certainly Iraq, with its sectarian violence, is not the ideal environment to conduct a survey. In my study of this research so far, I am thinking that this was a methodologically sound effort.
Also from the article:”A deteriorating health service with insecure access, and the flight of health professionals adds further risks. People displaced by the on-going sectarian violence add to the number of vulnerable individuals. In many conflicts, these indirect causes have accounted for the most civilian deaths [a couple of sources to back this up].”
Why did the Bushies refuse to even consider the possibility of such a mess developing. WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY THINKING?
They were warned that this would happen; they castigated those who warned them and went ahead with their little adventure. May they all rot in Hell.
I am more cynical than you Ben. I am gonna say that there were folks who KNEW what this would be. I don’t count bush among them. He is not that bright. Cheney and Rumsfeld maybe.
Iraq is the ultimate dream of military industrial concerns. It is a conflict that is self sustaining AND perpetuating. There are at least 4 sides involved (Sunnis,Shia, Kurds, US) and so there will never be a satisfactory solution for all 4. I say there are think tanks that KNEW this and are now and for the foreseable future making a lot of money on it.
It is sickening. It is sad. And it is not going to end anytime soon or in any pleasant way.
And people think that the dems will be their salvation??? LMSARFAO
Original story: http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52543
The following is just the agenda list
October 2006
The Democrat Agenda?
In light of ongoing Democrat criticisms of the Republican legislative agenda, the following is an abridged list of actual bills that have been introduced by House Democrats this or last year.
Justice for the Unprotected against Sexually Transmitted Infections among the Confined and Exposed Act (JUSTICE) Act (Lee, D-CA)—H.R. 6083. Requires community organizations to be allowed to distribute sexual barrier protection devices (e.g. condoms) in federal prisons. Also prohibits a federal prison from taking adverse action against a prisoner who possesses or uses a sexual barrier protection device.
Crack-Cocaine Equitable Sentencing Act (Rangel, D-NY)—H.R. 2456. Eliminates the mandatory minimum sentence for crack-cocaine convictions.
Tupac Shakur Records Release Act of 2006 (McKinney, D-GA)—H.R. 4968. Enshrines copies of government records concerning rapper Tupac Shakur in a specially created collection at the National Archives.
Antibullying Campaign Act (Nadler, D-NY)—H.R. 3787. Creates a new federal grant program aimed at reducing bullying in public schools “based on any distinguishing characteristic of an individual.”
To provide for coverage under the Medicare and Medicaid Programs of incontinence undergarments (Frank, D-MA)—H.R. 1052. Makes adult diapers a covered item under Medicare and Medicaid.
Gas Stamp Act (McDermott, D-WA)—H.R. 3712. Creates billions of dollars in gas stamps each year for people to get free gas, to be distributed to those already eligible for food stamps.
States’ Rights to Medical Marijuana Act (Frank, D-MA)—H.R. 2087. Allows physicians in states with medical marijuana laws to prescribe marijuana without violating federal law.
Ex-Offenders Voting Rights Act (Rangel, D-NY)—H.R. 663. Allows those convicts who are just out of prison to vote.
Department of Peace and Nonviolence Act (Kucinich, D-OH)—H.R. 3760. Establishes a U.S. Department of Peace and Nonviolence, as well as a Peace Day. The department would promote “human rights,” international conflict prevention, nonviolent intervention, structured mediation, and peaceful conflict resolution.
National Health Insurance Act (Dingell, D-MI)—H.R. 15. Institutes a new 5% value-added tax on property and services and creates a board to oversee payment to any individual for medical services not covered by Medicare.
Freedom of Choice Act (Nadler, D-NY)—H.R. 5151. Creates a right to unrestricted pre-viability abortions, and late terms abortions for the life and health of the mother.
End the War in Iraq Act (McGovern, D-MA)—H.R. 4232. Defunds the War in Iraq, forcing immediate troop withdrawal.
Public Interest Lawyer Assistance Relief Act (Andrews, D-NJ)—H.R. 1753. Forgives the law school debt for attorneys working for a tax-exempt organization or the government.
A Living Wage, Jobs for All Act (Lee, D-CA)—H.R. 1050. Builds on and strengthens FDR’s “Economic Bill of Rights,” creating rights to “decent” jobs, income for individuals unable to work, a “decent” living for farmers, freedom from monopolies, “decent” housing, “adequate” health care, Social Security, education, work training, collective bargaining, a safe working environment, information on trends in pollution sources and products and processes that affect the well-being of workers throughout the world, voting, and personal security. The bill also requires the Attorney General to create a registry of all corporations convicted of violating state or federal law.
Social Security Forever Act (Wexler, D-FL)—H.R. 2472. Imposes a new income tax on workers, employers, and self-employed businessmen to fund Social Security.
Health Security for All Americans Act (Baldwin, D-WI)—H.R. 2133. Requires states to create programs to ensure universal health coverage, and allows states to force employers to pay for health insurance for their employees.
Universal National Service Act (Rangel, D-NY)—H.R. 4752. Makes it an obligation of every U.S. citizen, and every other person residing in the U.S., between the ages of 18 and 42, to perform a two-year period of national service, either as a member of an active or reserve component of the armed forces or in a civilian capacity that promotes national defense.
Living American Wage Act (Green, D-TX)—H.R. 5731. Mandates that the federal minimum wage be equal to or greater than 112% of the federal poverty threshold beginning in 2007, and states that the minimum wage should be revised every four years.
Media Ownership Reform Act (Hinchey, D-NY)—H.R. 3302. Restricts ownership of radio and television stations, forcing some owners to divest their holdings, and regulates broadcast content.
Universal Education Act (Kind, D-WI)—H.R. 3930. Creates a Universal Education Corporation that provides taxpayer dollars to foreign countries that enter into education reform agreements with the U.S.
Medicare for All Act (Dingell, D-MI)—H.R. 4683. Increases taxes on workers and employers to offer to all citizens, and other individuals legally present in the U.S., Medicare benefits equivalent to the health care plans federal employees receive.
Menu Education and Labeling Act (DeLauro, D-CT)—H.R. 5563. Regulates what certain restaurants must print on their menus.
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States regarding the right of all citizens of the United States to a public education of equal high quality (Jackson, D-IL)—H.J.Res. 29. Creates a constitutional right to equal public education.
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States regarding the right of citizens of the United States to health care of equal high quality (Jackson, D-IL)—H.J.Res. 30. Creates a constitutional right to equal health care.
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States respecting the right to decent, safe, sanitary, and affordable housing (Jackson, D-IL)—H.J.Res. 32 and Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States respecting the right to a home (Rangel, D-NY)—H.J.Res 40. Creates a constitutional right to housing.
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States respecting the right to full employment and balanced growth (Jackson, D-IL)—H.J.Res. 35. Creates a constitutional right to full employment.
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!!!
The clock is ticking and multiracial “democarcy” is on it’s last legs. In a couple of years, ALL non-Whites will be expelled from Europe and the traitors who allowed them in will be swinging from trees and lamposts! :)
FROM THE TIMES ONLINE
World News
The Times October 21, 2006
Why 112 cars are burning every day
By Charles Bremner
A year after the Paris riots violence and despair continue to grip the immigrant suburbsFLAMES lick around a burning car on a tiny telephone screen. Omar, 17, a veteran of France’s suburban riots, replayed the sequence with pride. “It was great. We did lots of them and then we went out and torched more the next day.”
Omar, whose parents immigrated from Mali, was savouring memories of the revolt that erupted 12 months ago from his home, the Chêne Pointu estate in Clichy-sous-Bois, in the eastern outskirts of Paris. “We’re ready for it again. In fact it hasn’t stopped,” he added.
Before next week’s anniversary of the Clichy riots, the violence and despair on the estates are again to the fore. Despite a promised renaissance, little has changed, and the lid could blow at any moment.
The figures are stark. An average of 112 cars a day have been torched across France so far this year and there have been 15 attacks a day on police and emergency services. Nearly 3,000 police officers have been injured in clashes this year. Officers have been badly injured in four ambushes in the Paris outskirts since September. Some police talk of open war with youths who are bent on more than vandalism.
COMPLETE ARTICLE:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%2C3-2414175%2C00.html
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!
hotlick – show me someone saying “I want America to lose”.Ben-”Actions speak louder than words”If every effort is to undermine success, it doesn’t have to be said. Being a Civil War head, many things relate to that war. Many wanted the North to stop fighting, declare victory and quit.The body counts were high, the war wasn’t going as well as anyone wanted. Sometimes things take awhile. This war against terrorism is no different. If the Libs would come up with a plan that includes victory, they would be far more credible.
I was concerned that the numbers reported by the “Mortality after the 2003 invasion of Iraq: a cross-sectional cluster sample survey” were so much higher than previous estimates. The authors explain the differences.
From Burham, Lafta, Doocy, & Roberts (2006, p. 1426)):
“Our estimate of excess deaths is far higher than those reported in Iraq through passive surveillance measures [reference]. This discrepancy is not unexpected. Data from passive sureveillance are rarely complete, even in stable circumstances, and are even less complete during conflict, when access is restricted and fatal events could be intentionally hidden. Aside from Bosnia [reference], we can find no conflict situation where passive surveillance recorded more than 20% of the deaths measured by population-based methods.”
Based on the above, I am guessing that Bush’s flat rejection of this study’s findings comes more from his not liking the findings than any opinion about flawed methodology. I don’t blame him for not liking the results, they are pretty disturbing, but I wish he would wake up to reality once in a while. It would ge good for him as a person, and good for us as a country.
More bad news for Bush …
Hutchison: WMD info swayed vote on Iraq
You’re better than this article Ben.
“I would have never gone to the Ford theater that night if I would have known I’d be assainated” – Lincoln.
It’s a similar argument. Of course she wouldn’t have voted for it without the evidence of WMD’s. I’m sure you all believe differently, but Bush wouldn’t have called for it either. The world agreed the intelligence that was in place.And either Bush is a genius that duped the planet. Or he’s an idiot that has ruined the country as many of you claim. You can’t have it both ways.
KIA – I don’t know how deep Bush was in the WMDs (Words of Mass Disinformation) but I am with JR on this. There were warnings about this as well as the dire aftermath – those warnings went unheeded. In fact, those of us who warned were name-called then as we are now.
hotlick – the actions (louder than words) that are harming America are the actions of the Bush administration.
How many times did the Powerhouse UN (i.e the world) demand that Saddam straighten up? The world agreed with the WMD worries!There is an awful lot of sand there to bury stuff. Didn’t we find an entire fighter plane buried? But this isn’t really the point, now. We’re there. Stay the course, adapt the tactics.
You leftists had better grab yer guns! :)
ACTION ALERT: Blackwell purged Ohio Voter Rolls Oct 1st.- Vote Early.by KStreetProjectorWed Oct 18, 2006 at 05:59:14 AM PDTA friend, in a position to be present at lunches of GOP insiders here in DC called me on Thursday, they know of my ongoing efforts to make hackable voting end.
My friend was present as a group of Moderate GOP members with Ohio ties lamented how far the party had strayed. There was consensus at the table there was no way they should retain control. The table conversation began with the assumption they party would lose control in this election. The moderates started planning how to take back control of the GOP from the extremists.
Then, one insider, probably an extremist, but certainly very close to Mr. Ken Mehlman abruptly stopped the conversation. He told table that it was impossible they would lose either house. He also predicts an Ohio GOP sweep.
More Below.
KStreetProjector’s diary :: ::He informed the group that over the last year, in four critical states the GOP needs to hold huge purges of the voter rolls have just been finished.
The insider did not say which four states, but did say Ohio was among them.
His claim was a new Diebold voter registry system had been installed over the last year. The last week of July and the first week of August a “test run” was made of the systems ability to purge ineligable voters. The purge generated names and test letters sent out to 1.2 million Ohio addresses with a focus on University’s, Apartment addresses with high turnover. He claims they made the letters seem just functionary, but they have an action component to avoid being purged from the rolls.
The Insider warmed and said that Blackwell was brilliant in how he did this. The letter went on for a long time about changes in Ohio voting and security and suggested people who might have any concerns about their voting status could come by county offices and confirm their continued voting eligability before election day.
He further added, that since it was conducted as a “test” they only sent letters to a limited number of suspect addresses and “I suspect Blackwell chose criteria very very favorable for us……”http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/10/18/85915/109
V.L.R.B!!
Pentagon Admits Keeping Database on US Civilians Deemed SuspiciousThe US military has kept a database of unverified reports on US civilians who were deemed possible threats to national security interests, US forces or military installations, a defense spokesman said.
Anti-war protesters from CodePink Women for Peace hold up one million signatures asking for an end to the war in Iraq outside the North Gate of the White House. The US military has kept a database of unverified reports on US civilians who were deemed possible threats to national security interests, US forces or military installations, a defense spokesman said. (AFP/File/Jim Watson)The acknowledgement followed the disclosure of the database by NBC News, which said it contained indications that the military has been monitoring anti-war activists and protests.
It recorded 1,500 suspicious incidents over a ten month period, including four dozen anti-war meetings or protests, NBC reported.
One example cited in the report was a small gathering of activists at a Quaker meeting house in Florida to plan protests of military recruiting in high schools.
A briefing document stamped “Secret” noted “increased communication between protest groups using the Internet” but not a “significant connection between incidents,” such as “reoccurring instigators” or “vehicle descriptions,” NBC said.
The document indicates that information was being gathered about people who attended the meetings and the vehicles they used, a military analyst told NBC.
The defense spokesman, who would not be identified by name, would not say whether reports on activists or anti-war incidents were in the database, which is known as the Threat and Local Observation Notice (TALON) reporting system.
But he said Stephen Cambone, undersecretary of defense for intelligence, ordered a review of the database in October in response to media queries about it.
“There was information in the database that shouldn’t be in there,” the spokesman said.
The database is made up of unverified reports of suspicious activities filed by “concerned citizens” and Defense Department personnel as well as by law enforcement, intelligence, security and counterintelligence organizations, he said….http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1215-11.htm
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
hl – the UN had inspectors there. they said there were no WMDs. They were right. I’m still waiting for them – Rummsfield told me he knew exactly where ther are.
A three state “liberal” plan for Iraq:
http://www.slate.com/id/2099574/
There are tremendous problems to overcome in such a plan (Turkey or Iran invading – among others). U.S. military forces will not be getting out of Iraq any time soon.
Let us be honest here, the Bush “stay the course” is a non-plan.
I also look forward to the Baker Committee report.
Hotlick–you and Ict are like the two butt cheeks of dumbassedom.
1. These accusation have been made against the left on this blog since it started like over a year ago. They have been refuted over and over again. You people really need new talking points because you’re getting extremely tiresome.
2. I don’t want the US “to lose.” I recognized from the very beginning, like any sentient being not caught up in the war hysteria of the moment, that the US could not win.
We tried this same kind of experiment in “democracy” in Vietnam. Didn’t work then. Ain’t gonna work now.
People don’t like being invaded and occupied, even for good reasons, and the reasons that Bush went in were not good reasons.
3. What I THINK is wholly irrelevant to what is happening on the ground in Iraq. You right-wingers are so arrogant. You think that just having the “right attitude” is somehow going to “win” in Iraq.
The Americans didn’t much care what the English citizens thought when we kicked their asses in 1776, the people in Mississippi who cheered Grant’s troops did not shorten the war in the South, and the support or lack of it in France for made absolutly no difference to General Giap when he cut the French to pieces at Dien Bien Phu.
You should really worry more about Bush’s clearly FAILED policies and less about what Rush Limbaugh says that liberals “think.”
Capn – that “you hate America” mantra is all the BushBots have left. They can’t talk about their plan because they don’t have one. Here we have Rumsfield saying the ARI must take over but Bush saying there will be no change in strategy – a strategy that relies on the US military doing it alone.
A long, but very interesting article on the Arab world.
http://www.economist.com/help/DisplayHelp.cfm?folder=663377#About_The_Economist
Ben,
How is it that you can say our strategy is to go it alone when every day Marines are out training Iraqi Police and Army?
How is it that we are going it alone when I can throw a stone from where I am and hit an Iraqi training facility where we have Iraqi’s working hand in hand with the US in providing security.
I suppose the Ugandan troops who provide all the interior security here are part of our going it alone too?
I suppose the Korean troops in Kuwait are part of the going it alone?
Maybe these things are all just figments of my imagination.
Perhaps the Iraqi Security forces I see every week going out and doing what they can to provide security for the Iraqi people are just a figment of my imagination.
IAN you coward — you have a problem with this?:
Universal National Service Act (Rangel, D-NY)—H.R. 4752. Makes it an obligation of every U.S. citizen, and every other person residing in the U.S., between the ages of 18 and 42, to perform a two-year period of national service, either as a member of an active or reserve component of the armed forces or in a civilian capacity that promotes national defense.
No one except the military and their families are making anf sacrifices to fight the war on terror — what exactly are you and the rest of the republicans and neocons doing to help the war effort — zip, zilch, nil, nada — when you step up to the plate and actually do something constuctive for this country — some one will listen to your sophmoric ranting — I got your Viva la Raza Blanco right here !!
Think of it this way. In Britain, everyone serves. Two years, too, I believe. Even the royals.
Oh, wait. Maybe that’s not right. Is it only the royals who must do the two years?
Whatever, everyone in Israel is trained in the army…at a very early age. (Wrong thing to say, I guess?:grin:)
Ken–
You must be new.
The rest of us stopped paying to Ian’s sophomoric rantings months ago.
He seems to have some kind of deep seated feelings of inferiority that manifest themself in intense race hate.
Too bad there isn’t a “KKK Anonymous” he could go to . . .
Nathan – we have been supposedly training the ARI for years. But, when push comes to shove they melt away. When will they start taking over? How many years does it take to train them?
There are 300,000 ARI. There are less than 5000 insurgents (according to Rumsfield). I would think that with 60-1 odds we should be providing only air support adn nothing else.
Ugandan troops providing “all the interior security here”? Then why do we have troops there at all if the Ugandans are doing all that?
“Korean troops in Kuwait” Kuwait is not Iraq – even though April Glasspie indicated to our ally that it would be OK to make it so.
Good picture of the scum bag writing his latest signing statement! Here’s what America really thinks. And if they steal this election blood will run in the streets!http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061022/pl_nm/poll_dc_2
So Steve, you lose and it’s anarchy? You leftists should face reality. Your ideas are not mainstream in this country. Thank God. You seem to think that just because this administration has acted incompetently at times that all of the sudden your ideas are any better? They are not.
I’m just saying if the election looks even close, they can get away with stealing them. When they are this lopsided, America won’t stand for a repeat of the last election performance. They better not be planning on an encore.
Our Illustrious Leader Speaks Again!
http://www.killsometime.com/video/Files-1952196/Bush-Blooper.wmv
The Bush war has put his body count higher than Saddams: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061021/ts_nm/iraq_deaths_dc_1
The managing editor of the Beagle had this to say (in the editors blog page) about my comments regarding them burying most news of the war in the middle of section one:
Bringing the war homeA reader, Ken, responded to Nick’s post about headlines with criticism of what we consider front page news. “It absolutely boggles my mind that you bury most news of the war on terror, Iraq etc on pages 6 – 8 most days,” he writes. “…Put the bad and good news of the war on Page 1.”
I’ve just returned from Editors Day at the University of Kansas where presenters included the Pulitzer-prize winning team from the Rocky Mountain News whose project “Final Salute” centered on how the Marines diligently fulfill their responsibilities to families of Marines killed in Iraq. It was a wonderful, heart-breaking piece and brought home to me that local newspapers can best tell stories of the war when we concentrate on those stories that are closest to home.
The writer, photographer and editor at the Rocky Mountain News didn’t set out to win Pulitzers with this project. They set out to touch their readers with a story that had resonance locally and significance on a much wider scale. I think it’s important that we at The Wichita Eagle work to present stories that will touch our readers as much as this one touched readers in Denver.
Would I consider moving our daily coverage of the war to Page One? Most days, no. Our franchise is local, and I’m comfortable with the play of most of our wire reports from Iraq. But I came away from the KU presentation inspired by the challenge of shaping our coverage of the war to better convey how events in Iraq are impacting us in Wichita.
Theresa
I responded:
TheresaSounds very much a cop out — the war in Iraq effects every Wichitan, every day of our lives. Who is paying the bills for the war?By burying most news of the war in the middle of section 1, you virtually guarantee that nothing will change, we don’t need to have an energy policy that could prevent these wars in the future -we don’t have to hold any of our leaders responsible or accountable for the conduct of the war? What you’re saying is that only tear jerking stories of local heroes are newsworthy when it comes to the war? Not stories of waste, fraud and abuse of contractors? Not stories of the succsses (as rare as they are these days) of our troops? You are almost denying that WE are supposed to be at war? You do a huge disservice to the only people making a sacrifice in the conduct of this war – the soldiers, sailors and airmen and their families. You are abdicating your responsibility for responsible journalism when you rehash BTK, feature decorative dentures and the like on page 1 — and bury stories of the war and it’s heroes in the middle of section 1.By your comments it sounds like only Pulitzer Prize winning stories should make the front page –You might as well just let the Rocky Mountain News publish your paper.
Ben,
The Ugandans provide interior base security.
Either way, shows we are not going it alone. You are wrong, either purposefully because you want to twist the truth to further your bush bashing or out of ignorance. I have shown you that what you said is wrong.
Even if Kuwait is not Iraq it is the logisitical stronghold for our operations here. Help there is help here.
You look at the numbers like that is all they are.
You need to take into account unit strength and their location which is what we are working on.
Sure there might be X number of total forces, but that means little when spread out over the country working hand and hand with US forces if we just leave and then they are left spread out working alone.
Once again, you either choose to ignore the truth to further your Bush bashing or are just ignorant of it.
Nathan
Grab your gun and go help the Ugandans — that will help us too.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/zd/20061003/tc_zd/190342
Due to auto supplier and telecom cutbacks, U.S. job cuts surged in September, with the economy losing more than 100,000 jobs for the first time since January, according to a monthly job cut report by Challenger, Gray & Christmas, a New York-based global outplacement consultancy.
Job cuts jumped 54 percent in September, according to the Oct. 3 report, up to 100,315 from 65,278 in August.
The first six-digit job cut announcement since January, and the third increase in job cuts in 2006, September’s cuts were driven by heavy job slashing in the automotive industry, specifically at Ford Motor, General Motors and DaimlerChrysler. The auto industry cut 33,745 jobs in September and 36,299 in January of this year.
The telecommunications industry also contributed to the hike with 10,059 jobs cut in September, its largest number of per-month job cuts since March. The computer industry as a whole announced 27,291 cuts in just August and September.
“September is just the beginning of what is typically the heaviest job-cutting period of the year. It is not out of the realm of possibility that we will see another 300,000 job cuts by the end of the year. The economy grew at an annual rate of just 2.6 percent in the second quarter and consumer spending, adjusted for inflation, fell 0.1 percent in August, factors that could lead employers to make further adjustments to production and staffing levels,” said John A. Challenger, CEO of Challenger, Gray & Christmas, in a statement.
The effects of the housing market’s several-month slowdown can also be seen in September’s numbers, as both The Home Depot and Pulte Homes announced cuts.
Amid the bad news, the report also revealed that plans have been announced by employers to hire a total of 27,801 workers, with the largest number of jobs being created by railroad giant Union Pacific, which says it plans to add 1,750 train service employees.
Click the pop up on “view how different states treat same-sex marriage.”This is not an issue that belongs in the constituition except to state that the federal government shall set no policy as to define marriage. Leave it to the individual states and the people and overwhelmingly it seems to take care of itself.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/06/07/same.sex.marriage/index.html
Mr. Kia,
I turn your attention to the Declaration of Independence.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
Does it say heterosexual men? Does it say white men? Does it mean men and not women? After many years, we have finally, by law, meant that to include women and minorities, although the word “men” was used. All states must abide by that core belief, as it is spelled out in the Constitution and made law.
U.S. Constitution, Article IV, Section 2:
Section 2. The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states.
Depends on how you look at it, doesn’t it?
When the Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution, they lived in a very different America than the one we live in today. I wonder if the Founding Fathers were alive today, would they incorporate women and minorities, and aliens both legal and illegal into their preamble?
Will,
Because I believe the FF would carry their prejudices and social/cultural mores “into the future,” I’d have to say no. My opinion, of course. :)
On the other hand, if they had been born during this era, I like to believe they would be supportive and agree with how this country is more accepting of others now.
Is the question really whether or not the Constitution a living document? After all, we (future Americans) were given the steps to “upgrade” while still staying within those core beliefs of freedom and rights.
Will,
The founding fathers bequeathed to us a RACIAL Republic and we will one day restore that Republic.
RD,
Do you really think that the founding fathers would drive through a negro ghetto or wetback barrio and suddenly embrace those mythical “benefits” of useless racial types?? Wow, and folks dare to say that I am nuts!!
Thomas Jefferson, who rationally opposed Black slavery on thegrounds that it was bad for both races, also opposed convertingAmerica into a multiracial society. His plan to end slavery includeda plan for the humane resettlement of all freed Blacks in Africa.
From 1776 to 1778, Jefferson drafted proposed revisions andmodernizations to the laws of Virginia dealing with slaves. Whenfinished, his proposals included these provisions:
1. Free Blacks were forbidden to enter the state.
2. Blacks freed in Virginia were required to leave the state withinone year.
3. A White woman bearing a mixed-race child was required to leaveVirginia within one year.
4. Those who violated these statutes were to be placed “outside ofthe protection of the laws” — that is, they could be dealt with byanyone in any way with absolute impunity, which was the originalmeaning of the term “outlaw” and which certainly constituted a mostterrible punishment.
In 1824, only two years before his death, Jefferson proposed analternative to the emancipation and relocation of all Blacks toAfrica: gradual emancipation of all newly-born Blacks, and theirtransportation after a few years to the island of Santo Domingo.
Throughout his public life, Jefferson held true to his concept ofhumane racial separation which he summed up in his Notes on theState of Virginia (1781, Query XIV):
“Among the Romans emancipation required but one effort. The slave,when made free, might mix with, without staining the blood of hismaster. But with us a second is necessary, unknown to history. Whenfreed, he is to be removed beyond the reach of mixture.”
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!
Ian,
Do you believe that women should not have equal rights?
Yes, RD, I do think that women should have equal opportunity, within the contex of a uniracial Nation. I do think the women should be prohibited from military service though.
V.L.R.B!!
ken,
I am no COWARD you little puke! I sevred as an officer in the military and I am a veteran of the first gulf war for the zionists and big oil so watch you filthy mouth!
I am against the National Service Act because I do not want our evil, rotten government to compel me or my kinder or anyone to do ANYTHING! Is that so difficult for your miniscule, leftist-colectivis pea-brain to comprehend?
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Ian, but the Constitution clearly said MEN.
Again, we go back to the social mores of the time.
RD,
I understand but I think that the ff might have come around on the issue of gender but the would NEVER have come around regarding multiracialism.
The precedent for great women in Euorpean history was there: Queen Isabella of Spain, Maria Theresa, the Habsburg Empress, Joan of Arc, Katherine the Great of Russia, etc. There has though, NEVER been a lasting, cohesive multiracial society.
PS: Here is another link to possible concentration camps in America. Also google the “Interior Security Act” for more info.http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=94723
V.L.R.B!!
HEY, All the people that believe that the CIA brought down the world trade center will also believe this:http://www.uncoveror.com/castro.htmFidel Castro died in 1981, and was replaced by a look-alike CIA plant. The dictator ate tainted shellfish and died. CIA infiltrators wasted no time in covering this up, and installing an agent named Alexis Papagos to impersonate Castro, and run the country. This information comes to THE UNCOVEROR via Cuban national, Igor Davidovich Martinez.Why, then, does the U.S. government maintain the embargo against Cuba? “The CIA is turning a great profit by selling contraband Cuban goods on the black market,” says Martinez, “and they don’t want to give that up.” The CIA sees to it that the embargo stays.What tipped Martinez off? Before 1981, the real Fidel Castro nearly always wore a military uniform. After that year, “Castro,” really Alexis Papagos, appeared more often in civilian clothing.This prompted Martinez, and several others to start digging. Of those who discovered this deception, only Martinez remains alive.The plot almost failed. A few people in 1981 heard of Castro’s death, and began a rumor that he had died of syphilis, but the CIA quickly made those people, some of them Americans, Disappear. They needed the world to think that Castro was still alive. They didn’t want you to know, but thanks to THE UNCOVEROR, now you do.