Wall Street Journal columnist and former Reagan speechwriter Peggy Noonan is no fan of Bob Woodward’s books, which she describes as slipshod and opportunistic. But she praised his latest book, “State of Denial,” which she describes as “serious, densely, even exhaustively, reported, and a real contribution to history.” She agrees that the Bush administration made huge mistakes in Iraq, such as disbanding the Iraqi army. But she is more forgiving than Woodward about the motives. She wrote:
“Was the White House, from the beginning, in a state of denial? I doubt denial is the word. They were in a state of unknowingness. (I have come to give greater credence to the importance, in the age of terror, among our leaders, of having served in the military. For you need personal experience that you absorbed deep down in your bones, or a kind of imaginative wisdom that tells you even though you were never there what war is like, what invasion is, what building a foreign nation entails.) They were in a state of conviction: They really thought Saddam had those WMDs. (Yes, so did Bill Clinton, so did The New Yorker, so did I, and so likely did you. But Mr. Bush moved on, insisted on, intelligence that was faulty, inadequate.) They were in a state of propulsion: 9/11 had just wounded a great nation. Strong action was needed.”
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/22
- Regular on Open thread 11/22
- Regular on Open thread 11/22
- Rage on Open thread 11/22
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/22
- Chas on Open thread 11/22
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/22
- Boxlock20 on Open thread 11/22
- satatom on Open thread 11/22
- JimJohnson on Open thread 11/22
66 Comments
Bush should have waited until he had a total coaltion of our allies to help with the Iraq situation.
George W. squandered all the goodwill the US received after 9/11. And why – I believe it was for oil and war profiteering.
“Strong action was needed.”
Yeah, and why should we be concerned about which particular rag-head attacked us, right?
What doesn’t compute is that any sentient being knows that the terrorists were in Afghanistan, they are still in Afghanistan, but Afghanistan doesn’t have oil.
And meanwhile, the Taliban is in resurgence and Osama bin Forgotten continues to operate.
Why Bush cannot talk:
Why Bush Can’t Talk: It’s not the drugs, and it’s not senility.by InlandThu Aug 24, 2006 at 07:00:43 PM PDTBush’s press conferences and unscripted remarks are so painfully bad, it spurs the question: what is his PROBLEM?
People have remarked that he wasn’t that way when he was the Governor of Texas, and therefore theorize that he has deteriorated due to premature senility or a lifetime of drug use.
I think the reason George Bush stumbles, ends sentences midway through to jump to another thought, rattles off non-sequiturs, and makes up words, is that George Bush is breaking under the strain of lying almost all the time about almost everything.
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/08/26/why-bush-cant-talk-its-not-the-drugs-and-its-not-senility/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstoryonly%2F2006%2F8%2F24%2F22043%2F1891&frame=true
Anyone with knowledge of science could not have believed the WMD claims. The mobile labs were so ludicrous that I burst out laughing when I heard that claim.Did anyone ever ask during any committee hearing how many miles of railroad track Iraq had? Or roads smooth enough to conduct highly critical biological and chemical processes in a moving vehicle. Nope.
A mobile bio-weapons lab would require climate control, which would leave behind an infrared temperature signature which probably could have been detected from outer space.
You couldn’t have invented a more stupid way to make bio-weapons. The labs were “invented” to take advantage of the anthrax hysteria, and to avoid questions about where the factories were once UN inspectors were on the ground.
Americans are dumb as posts, and we got exactly what we deserved.
Lucee, have you look at who didn’t support us and why. They were trade partners they had their own economic interest. They are oppurtunist. They are French. And German. Why can’t you look at what is going in the world and figure out who is the enemy.
BH,
You are saying the entire world is made up of idiots because everyone including all foreign powers and both parties of our government beleived it. Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Congress,all. Just you had the superior intelligence to know this and you did what?
Conn – yes, they were stupid to believe what Bush, Powell, et.al. told them.
Conn, who are you?How is your intelligence superior?
You’re just twisting lucee’s point.That is: that taking action unilaterally is NEVER a good idea.If you’re going in for surgery you would want a second opinion, why wouldn’t we heed second and third opinions when it comes to war?Are we the only nation on earth that knows right from wrong?
I’ve read what Nathan posts here and found it mostly argumentative instead of informative. But here is an opportunity for all of us to hear from several who are there. If we can stomach it, or keep our eyes clear of tears…
http://tinyurl.com/q3wek
The Pain of War in Black and White
Updated 11:50 PM ET October 8, 2006
Much of what Americans learn about the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq is filtered by the press, the politicians and the Pentagon brass.
A new book seeks to offer another point of view.
“Operation Home Front” compiles the letters, journals, emails, short stories and poems of soldiers. The writings in it are raw, graphic and sometimes highly critical of the government, even though the government is putting out the book.
Anguish, Anger and Questions
After months of watching his friends die in al Anbar province, Iraq, Army Sgt. John McCary fired off an anguished e-mail.
“I’m ok, mom. I’m just a little… shaken, a little sad,” he wrote. “I know this isn’t any divine mission. No God, Allah, Jesus, Buddha or other divinity ever decreed, ‘Go get your body ripped to shreds, it’s for the better.’ ”
The consequences of war bubbled up doubt in McCary.
“What do you say to your men,” he wrote, “after you’ve scraped up the scalps of an entire Iraqi family off the road, right next to the shattered bodies of your soldiers, held together only by their shoelaces, body armor or helmets? ‘We’re fighting the good fight?’ I don’t think so.”Advertisement
Air Force Capt. Ed Hrivnak, who helped medevac injured troops out of Iraq, wrote about caring for a young soldier.
“He looks at me and our eyes are locked. His eyes say, ‘Tell me I’m going to be okay. Tell me that I’m going to be fine, tell me that I’m going to be whole again,’ ” he wrote. “I’m sure less than two seconds passed before I gave him a big smile and a thumbs-up. Those two seconds felt like an hour. He broke into a big smile of relief and I felt broken for lying to him.”
Staff Sgt. Jack Lewis, an Army reservist, described the aftermath of a traffic accident. An Army vehicle hit an Iraqi civilian car, killing a young man. Lewis looked after the victim’s wailing father.
“It’s hard to describe what we found in the car,” he wrote. “It had been a young man only moments earlier that night. … It was as bad a mess as I’ve seen.”
The young man was in the car with his father.
“While the medic worked on him, the colonel’s interpreter came over and fired a few questions at the [older] man,” Lewis wrote. “The younger man had been taking his father back from shopping. They were minutes from home. We didn’t find any weapons in the car — either piece of it. … The young man had been a student. Engineering. With honors. Pride of the family. What we like to think of as Iraq’s future. Finally, I had to ask, ‘What does he keep saying?’ the ‘terp looked at me. Disgusted, resigned, or maybe just plain tired. ‘He says to kill him now.’ ”
Writing Through the Fight
The writings were solicited by the National Endowment for the Arts, a branch of government under the control of President Bush. To help inspire soldiers to write, the endowment sent best-selling authors like Mark Bowden, Jeff Shaara and James Clancy out to military bases to hold writing workshops.
While some of the entries are critical of the government, the soldiers ABC News spoke with believed in what they’ve fought for.
“We will not give up,” wrote Sgt. McCary. “We cannot. Our lives are forever tied to the lost, and we cannot leave them now, as we might have were they still living.”
The book provides a window into soldiers’ inner lives — humor and horror, boredom and bravery. And, in the case of Army Capt. Montgomery Granger, the power of coming home to an infant child.
“He didn’t cry, he didn’t squirm, he just rested there gently, as if it were the most normal thing in the world,” Granger wrote. “As if, I realized with tears in my eyes, I had never left.”
Great post linda, and welcome to the blog.
I remember Powell’s UN speech about Iraq’s WMD. I had hoped we would hear the true story from him. Instead we got artist’s conceptions (drawings) of what a bio weapons lab would look like and audio tapes of Iraqi Army soldiers saying “Hey Adul, better quit screwing off, the boss is coming”. That should have been enough to convince people of the poverty of the case for invasion. It didn’t though. I recall the Iraqi delegation laughing at our evidence. We should have, too.
I don’t understand what I have to do with any of your post…
Of course I am argumentative. This is a blog.
If you have questions feel free to ask them. I will do my best to be informative for you.
Ben,
Where is Osama currently continuing to operate?
Seems to me whatever operation he has is nothing near to what he was doing before.
Do you have some information on his whereabouts you are not sharing?
Please let us know.
The problem I kept having during the runup to the invasion was the inspection reports, uniformly finding nothing. Notwithstanding these reports, the Administration kept pressing forward with its intelligence (later shown to be faulty). Had I been in charge, in light of the inspectors’ statements, I think I would have gone back to my intelligence folks and pressed for newer intelligence. The failure to do so is evidence of at least some folks’ desire to press ahead, regardless.
No, I do not know his whereabouts. I just know that we have not captured him.
Oh,
So you were just speculating/assuming/making up/telling a lie about him coninuing to operate in the context you did?
Objection!!–argumentative.Objection sustained.
Nathan- That surely applies to you also!
gster,
No, it doesn’t.
I have pointed out a fact:
Osama is not operating in the same capacity that he was before.
You have to differentiate between facts and Nathanfacts! They don’t coincide.
So, nathan, I suppose he was not operating on 9/10 since nothing was happening?
Nathanis correct that many things have changed for OBL.The same is true for the USA.The only permanent thing in this world is change.
Ben,
Your question has the false premise that “nothing was happening” in it which I do not agree with.
Gster,
When all else fails resort to the ad hominem…
Nathan, you should contact the Salina Journal and see if they will let you write a blog from Iraq.I’m sure meadowlark would help ya’ get started.
I don’t agree with it either. And I do not operate on the false premise that nothing is happening today.
I always wondered why we didn’t go in and capture one of those “mobile bio labs”, since we had satelite pictures of them.
I believe you were all invited to the yahoo group my father started and still are.
He posts my update letters there.
Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything…..Frank Dane
I don’t get any nathininiraq updates. I haven’t changed anything, they just quit coming.
hmmm…
My last letter was a couple of weeks ago.
I will go there myself and post the last few just to check.
I will be writing another one shortly.
Steve – we DID capture one of those “labs” – OOPS! They were not bio labs!
Maybe Woodard shuld have used “State of Confusion” for his title. Might better describe this Admin.
I should have included that I’m new here but have read long enough to know Nathan is in Iraq and he is the only person I know who is. This new book has emails, journals, and letters from several who have served/are serving in Iraq and in Afghanistan. I look forward to getting their input and insight. Nathan, that’s what you have to do with my previous (and very first post to this blog). I didn’t know arguing and blogging were synonymous since I’m new to blogging too. I’m glad other posters don’t know that either because I really appreciate their links, opinions, and the information they provide which helps me be better informed.
“Bush administration made huge mistakes in Iraq, such as disbanding the Iraqi army.”
Oh really? Ms. Noonan didn’t appear to have mentioned that the military leaders of the Iraq Army under Hussein were members of the Ba’ath Party which caused huge amount of torture, violence and unspeakable acts of human rights violations.
Woodward’s book should be retitled to “How to make Hearsay appear like actual spoken truth.”
JM – replace the top officers yes. Eliminate all the foot soldiers no. That is also the judgement of our CURRENT establishment there. Unfortunately, it is too late to turn back the clock.
Ben:
Astute observation… major screwups rarely originate as a result of the grunts. Soldiers are only as good as the orders they receive, and the support they receive to carry out those orders. Any restructuring of the Iraq mess should be top-down.
My big problem is that we operate an army the way we always have… an army that fails to reward individual virtuosity in the decision making capacity, except when that person is in a decision making position. That may work when you’re 400,000 strong, but at 40,000 you need to be a little more flexible. If we have our soldiers run around drawing fire and IED explosions so we can draw out the ‘insurgents,’ we’ll be killing our children for generations to come. I am vehemently anti-war; I can see the rationale behind certain conflicts but I don’t believe that violence is the answer to anything. That being said, in order to minimize loss of further life, we need to do one of two things:
1. Git ‘r Dun. No holds barred, Blitzkrieg-style routing of anyone/everyone who presents resistance. We have already created an ‘international incident’ by simply showing up. At least if we flexed nuts, we could reclaim some of the ‘fear factor’ of dealing with the US militarily.
2. Go home. This doesn’t necessarily minimize loss of life as a whole, but it at least takes us out of the futility. If we are not willing to do #1, we should do #2 immediately.
Cut and run? No. But this ‘liberal’ needs to see decisive action one way or the other.
Postal – problem with Option 1 is that it has been found that will only be temporarily successful. Occupied people always find a way to resist their occupation. Ask the Germans about the Warsaw Ghetto uprisings.
Anyone who thinks Bin Laden is no longer relevant needs his head examined. He may not be the kingpin he was once, but he now has thousands more (thanks to our invading Iraq) that are more than happy to do his bidding.
Our Iraq strategy needs to change. We can no longer afford this stay the course crap.
Stay the course; or change the course. John Warner has suggested that if this morass doesn’t show improvement in the next three months, the entirety of the U.S. position in Iraq be reexamined. Changing the course does not mean cut and run, notwithstanding Karl Rove’s talking points.
As has been mentioned, Nathan is the only poster in Iraq, seeing and hearing things the rest of us cannot. While Nathan’s perspective is different from others blogging and writing, I suggest a part of this is due to the area in which he is serving.
Nathan: notwithstanding all the good you see being done, it, in my opinion, boils down to whether security can be provided in Baghdad. If it can be, then there is hope for the current strategy; if it cannot, then the current strategy is a failure, and we (the U.S. and its allies) must formulate a different approach.
Bush Doubles Opium Crop
“Meanwhile, opium production in Afghanistan has exploded. A United Nations report in September revealed a bumper poppy crop produced 6,100 metric tons of opium, a 50 percent increase over the previous year.”
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1009/dailyUpdate.html?s=mesdu
This makes the case to leave Iraq.
“When you go into bad neighborhoods, you’ll have more attacks,” said Lt. Col. James A. Gavrilis, a Special Forces officer and expert on the Iraqi insurgency. “If we have more people in one area, there will be an opportunity.” He said enemy fighters “are reacting to an opportunity to attack.”
Until the US is NOT seen as invaders and occupiers in Iraq, this war is unwinnable.
Bush and his bunch messed this up big time. It will take a new president to clean up the mess. I just hope and pray we still have a country in 2 years.
BH,
The notion of WMD didn’t start with Bush and Powell, It ended with them. Clinton and Gore both stated their belief as well as the entire UN that there was WMD lond before the Bush Presidency and for 12 years Saddam defied the UN resolution to disclose what he did have and what he did with it 300,000 dead kurds will argue with you that he had WMD. The UN resolution to disclose or face reprisals ended when Bush finally acted. Not talked, acted. He didn’t invent the Idea of WMD to give his oil buddies money and you have no evidence of that. What we do have evidence of is the UN, France and Germany and other nations profiting from the oil for food scam. That, you don’t care about. When were France and Germany going to Join us when Iraq ran out of oil? Look back at the quotes of Clinton, Bush did exactly what Bill said needed to be done.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Conn, that argument was old before people knew who Jack Abromoff is . . .
Clinton may have thought Saddam had WMD’s, but we didn’t f*cking invade the f*cking country over it, did we?
Grow a brain. The problem is not what they THOUGHT. The problem is what they DID.
There was nothing unilateral about the dicision to overthrow Saddam. follow the factual event instead of the liberal hogwash. Bush attacked the only country the the entire world believed had WMD and for 12 years had defied the whole worlds demand to disclose their whereabouts and the UN’s attempt to locate them. That isn’t unilateral. The whole United Nations was in agreement that the WMD’s existed with 12 UN resolutions to distroy them and disclose the evidence. That is more than a second opinion. I never said I was intellengent I’ just not stupid.
BTW, Conn, you’re so gung-ho.
Why don’t you enlist?
Conn, give it up. You’re outta your league here.
The UN? Are you kidding me?
The UN refused to go along with US plans to invade unilaterally, as we did anyway.
Does the name Hans Blix mean anything to you? He was the UN weapons inspector who was forced out Iraq kicking and screaming that an invasion was wholly unjustified, a conclusion since proven correct.
This isn’t just horseshit your writing . . . this is OLD, OLD long ago discredited horseshit.
At least come up with something that doesn’t stink so bad.
Clinton and others believed that Saddam WANTED WMDs and would try to find ways to replace his former supplier. That is why they maintained sanctions on him and kept him boxed in – and they were successful.
As for Saddam “defying the world” he was by no means the worst offender in violating UN resolutions. If THAT is so important we should destroy, invade, and occupy Israel.
How does one “disclose their whereabouts” of that which does not exist? And there were numerous inspections that confirmed their non-existence. And how does one “distroy them and disclose the evidence” that which does not exist.
Conn – PROVE that you have destroyed the chemical weapons you have been hoarding!
Here’s the difference, “Capt”:
Clinton did nothing, and we were attacked on 9/11 (and the USS Cole, and the US Embassies, and the WTC truck bomb…)
Bush IS doing something. And we’re all safer because of it.
End of story.
“Bush IS doing something. And we’re all safer because of it.”
Gee, nut. Where ya’ been?Didn’t you see the report from Bush’s own team? (NIE)Haven’t you seen the statistics?You’re not gettin’ your news at the 19th hole are ya’?
If THIS IS SAFER, I hope he does nothing.
It’s interesting that you mention the WTC truck bomb, GolfNut.
That happened less than a MONTH after Clinton took office.
So if you blame Clinton for 9-11 which happened NINE MONTHS after Bush 43 took office, then you’d have to blame Bush 41 for the first WTC bombing wouldn’t you.
“Rush, tell me what to say. Help me, Rush. Or Bill. Or Sean. Please, talking points!”
Why don’t you just go out to pasture somewhere with your niblick and your tam o’ shanter for another round of what you people do instead of sex and leave the thinking to us . . .
Cneney’s reaction:
Woodward: Cheney Cursed At Me About ‘State of Denial,’ Then Hung Up The PhoneToday on Meet the Press, Bob Woodward described how Vice President Dick Cheney called him 10 days ago about Woodward’s new book State of Denial. Woodward says Cheney cursed at him (”he said what I was saying was bull-something”) and then hung up the phone.
Woodward called Cheney’s behavior a “metaphor for what’s going on. Hang up when somebody has a different point of view or information you don’t want to deal with.” Watch it:
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/10/08/woodward-cheney-cursed-at-me-about-state-of-denial-then-hung-up-the-phone/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fthinkprogress.org%2F2006%2F10%2F08%2Fwoodward-cheney%2F&frame=true
Another GOP retread tries to salvage Iraq policy:
Ex-Secretary Baker Readies Iraq PolicyWASHINGTON (AP) – Former Secretary of State James A. Baker III,a longtime Republican strategist, is preparing recommendations thatPresident George W. Bush reconsider his “stay-the-course’’strategy in Iraq.Referring to a bipartisan commission he co-chairs, Baker said,“We are taking a look at other alternatives.”With his remarks Sunday on the ABC News Program “This Week,”Baker joined a growing list of prominent Republicans critical ofBush’s Iraq strategy in the weeks leading to congressionalelections on Nov. 7.http://my.netscape.com/corewidgets/news/story.psp?cat=50700&id=2006100914500001477293
This coincides with what Mr. Baker said when he was interviewed on the Imus in the Morning program last week. At that time he didn’t announce the bipartisan commission thing, but he did advocate the need to “talk to your enemies”.
“Haven’t you seen the statistics?”
Anyone with half a brain knows that stats can be spun countless ways – until the desired outcome is “proven.” Look at the most obvious statistic: no attacks on US soil since 9/11.
And I don’t blame Clinton for the WTC truck bomb. I don’t blame anyone for it. But I DO blame Clinton for his inaction in the years following. Maybe if he hadn’t been so busy with Monica…
NUT, numbers do not lie.Violence on americans by foreigners has vastly increased since bush ‘did something’.And more talk about Bill and his weenie cleaner is just changing the subject. It is well established that Bill did everything in his power to bring these people down. There is no record of inaction, rather failed action. Just saying no attacks does not consist of any type of statistical anylsis. Now if you were to establish some kind of baseline to compare a value (number) that would be different.Let’s say something like:The USA has only been attacked on it’s own soil X number of times, out of X number of wars, well you get the idea.
KSGoofball
“I DO blame Clinton for his inaction in the years following.”
Hey guy? You been catching other folks’s drives with the back of your head? The perpetrators of the WTC bombing were caught, prosecuted and are incearcerated for the rest of their lives. And they only killed I think 7 people.
Where’s Osama?
As far as the bush administration being “uninformed”State of uninformed my elbow. It’s hard to be informed when you clap your hands over your ears and go “Lalalalalalalalalalala”.
ksgolf – the only relevance of Monica is that she gave REPUBLICANS an excuse to hollar “Wag the dog” whenever Clinton acted.
ksgolf; Clinton had about a month to act after the CIA certified AlQuida was responsible for the Cole. Bush had 9 months to take action before 9/11. Who was asleep at the wheel. Good News. The administration is constantly adapting in Iraq! (Who Knew?)http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061009/pl_nm/iraq_usa_dc_1
The coalition of the willing consists of the following:
United KingdomSouth KoreaItalyAustraliaPolandRomaniaDenmarkEl SalvadorGeorgiaAzerbaijanBulgariaLatviaMongoliaAlbaniaSlovakiaCzech RepublicLithuaniaArmeniaEstoniaBosnia & HerzegovinaMacedoniaKazakhstanMoldovaFijiHungaryNicaraguaSpainDominican RepublicHondurasPhilippinesThailandNew ZealandTongaPortugalSingaporeNorwayUkraineThe NetherlandsJapan
And how much support are these coalition members “willing” to provide for the mis-adventure in mess-o-potamia?
I don’t think so KIA. Most of these countries never participated in the Iraq invasion and several of those that did have pulled out.
How many troops do they have in Iraq?
98 percent of the troops in Iraq are US or UK military. John Pilger
US–145,000UK–7,200Korea–3000
All the rest including Poland (”you forgot Poland”) have fewer than 1000 troops stationed in Iraq or none.