I’m not big on voting machine conspiracies, but I was surprised to learn that a small software company with ties to the Venezuelan government — Smartmatic Corp. — owns a leading American manufacturer of electronic voting systems. The company denies that the administration of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has any role in its operations. But Venezuelan authorities picked this little-known company — which didn’t have any experience in voting technology — to replace that country’s elections machinery just before a referendum that confirmed Chavez as president in August 2004, the New York Times reported. The company has since been restructured into an elaborate web of offshore companies and foreign trusts, the Times reported. The company’s acquisition of Sequoia Voting Systems of Oakland, Calif., is now being reviewed by the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States, which reviewed the Dubai port deal.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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62 Comments
Hey! This is the Eagle! How dare you criticize the left’s golden boy? Somebody call Fidel, the critics need to be rounded up and “interrogated” for “crimes against the state.”
This is rather amusing. It was fine when executives at Diebold stated that they would assure Bush of a victory in Ohio. But let someone else do it …
This shows the need to improve security of our elections – from tappering by ANYONE!
Election Security is a joke.
Ben Huie,
I agree. Chalk it up to the iron law of contemporary American politics: IOKIYAR. Voting is a public good and should be overseen in the most public and nonpartisan manner possible. Smartmatic, Diebold–I don’t trust any of ‘em.
Personally, I think this has seen the light of the day as part of the GOP’s pre-election groundwork so that when they have their assess handed to them by the voters on Nov. 7, they can claim electoral fraud and go to court to fight over the outcomes of specific races.
That’s what’s on tap: claims of massive Democratic electoral fraud as a way to de-legitimate the Republican defeat, and to confuse the issues so as to win victories in state and district courts. We saw it in 2000, and we’re going to see it again.
They’ve been telegraphing it for weeks. They’re going to use right-wing activist judges as an ally in the effort to turn back results that went against them, and to gain an advantage in contested elections.
Ben:
“…executives at Diebold stated that they would assure Bush of a victory in Ohio”
Wanna back that one up? I doubt you can.
Ya know, that’s the beauty of conspiracy theories, however; the lack of evidence is simply trotted out as evidence that there is a conspiracy. Circular reasoning to the end.
GMC – no, I’m not going to try to search archives from 2004. However, I do rememebr both that and also the wide discrepancies between official results and exit polls. It was that type of discrepancy that was used to fuel the “Orange Revolution” in Ukraine. The exit polls were considered more ligitimate (by the US State Department among others) than the official state-reported results. I also remember the Bush state campaign chair being in charge of counting votes in Florida in 2000.
As Tony said – Election Security is a joke. ACROSS THE BOARD.
CF:
You may be right, but I think it’s the other way around. If the Republicans do better than expected and hold the House and Senate, I’d not be surprised if the Democrats trot out this canard to delegitimize the results. I’ve seen some go so far as to call for taking to the streets if the results are not a democratic victory.
I’d also point out that historically, a president’s party usually loses seats in off-year elections; if the polls are right, while they may lose one or both houses, this year the R’s are not expected to lose the number of seats that would make this election an historic one. The losses are expected to be historically small. But given the narrow margins in Congress, very significant. It’s also generally been the case that the public has favored divided government. Usually for good reason.
You’ll spin those comments as lowering expectations, I’m sure. But it just the way it is.
It’s gonna be close, in any case. And I think all here would be for accountable elections. Me too. I want paper, physical, countable ballots (but hopefully not the punch-card type! ;-).
And let’s keep this one on the high road, huh? All of us.
gmc70, I’ll take that challenge! And here you go!http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/001684.php
The head of a company vying to sell voting machines in Ohio told Republicans in a recent fund-raising letter that he is “committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year.”
Thanks, dave s. A contemporary report, no less. It was also all over the news (at least if follow something other than McNews).
More damning (but also somewhat daunting) are the infamous “Diebold memos.”
Ultimately, more important than that uncommonly stupid gaffe is the genuine issue:http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/05/election_machin_1.html
No, Bruce Schneier is some tinfoil-hat conspiracy theorist. He’s the well-respected author of the advanced text “Applied Cryptography.”
“not” a conspiracy theorist. Crap.
Dave -
I think you added 1 and 1 and got 4. Diebold seeking a contract for voting machines does not bar the head of that company lending his support to either party. At no point does the head of Diebold say, or remotely imply, that he’d rig his product to do so, clearly the intent of Ben’s ’sorta’ quote. I’d also point out that the article notes that lobbyists for all the voting-machine makers had been politically active, saying that “. . . if there is a political lever to be pulled, all of them have pulled it.”
You’re back where you started. Conspiracy theory. No evidence. Gosh, that just proves there’s a conspiracy, huh.
Well done, Dave and Rage.
But this is GMC’s little game. It’s what the right-wingers do so well.
First attack the facts.
When the facts are shown to be true, spin it so that the facts “don’t mean anything.”
When the facts are proven to indeed mean something–i.e. lead to a clear conclusion that goes against the reich-wing, then claim that “the other side does it too.”
From the link to Schneier’s blog:
Armed with a little basic knowledge of Diebold voting systems and a standard component available at any computer store, someone with a minute or two of access to a Diebold touch screen could load virtually any software into the machine and disable it, redistribute votes or alter its performance in myriad ways.
“This one is worse than any of the others I’ve seen. It’s more fundamental,” said Douglas Jones, a University of Iowa computer scientist and veteran voting-system examiner for the state of Iowa.
It’s sad that someone who purports to be well-informed claims he is utterly ignorant of the machinations of Diebold to insure victory for reich-wingers.
Says a lot about the selective fact picking among the right, and how corporate news aids and abets this national ignorance.
Rage:
Ok, so the software is is poorly designed and rushed. Diebold made a crappy machine. Local election officials are scrambling to fix it.
OK. And . . . .
Conspiracy? Where? Evidence of same?
See, GMC is already to the “facts don’t mean anything” stage.
Just imagine the howling, the wailing, the gnashing of teeth coming from Rush OReilly Hannity Savage Malkin Coulter if Diebold were run by radical leftists and they had said this to elect Russ Feingold and Nancy Pelosi, say . . .
So, GMC, then I assume you would have no problem with Chavez counting the ballots. After all, we have know proof that he would ACT on his hatred of Bush!
Capn:
So far I’ve seen no “facts” of substance. I’ve seen inuendo, rumor, speculation, “guilt” by association, but evidence? Not much. God knows we shouldn’t back up a charge with facts, of course.
Or maybe we should.
But what you’ve provided amounts to 1) the head of Diebold contributes to the R’s, and 2) they built a crappy machine. Have I missed something? Please, point it out to me.
No evidence – well, it’s just proof of the conspiracy. Uh-huh. More shooters in the grassy knoll, etc.
You made the charge; it’s a serious one. Back it up.
“Conspiracy? Where? Evidence of same?”
Well, actually, I hadn’t gotten there yet, GMC. But here’s a taste, albeit from an activist lefty source:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm
The problem of course, is that fraud can achieved electronically leaves little evidence of tampering, and no tangible, coherent evidence. You can complacently premise that those in charge are fixing the problems, but it ain’t true.
As far as Diebold methodology, well, here’s a small taste of that:Johnson County, KS will be doing Central Count for their mail in ballots. They will also be processing these ballots in advance of the closing of polls on election day. They would like to log into the Audit Log an entry for Previewing any Election Total Reports. They need this, to prove to the media, as well as, any candidates & lawyers, that they did not view or print any Election Results before the Polls closed. However, if there is a way that we can disable the reporting functionality, that would be even better.[source: http://radio.weblogs.com/0118868/2003/11/index.html
Oops–direct link:
http://radio.weblogs.com/0118868/2003/11/11.html#a188
See RFK, Jr.’s article in The Rolling Stone.
The discrepency between exit polls in Ohio and the “official” count is what we would use to declare election fraud if it happened in Georgia (it did).
But here? Oh, well, the exit polls musta been wrong, heigh ho.
In the words of Puss-n-boot:HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!You guys! You make me laugh!
You should clarify Capn – Georgian Republic (Former Soviet Georgia). If it happens in Georgia in the USA it’s OK (like when it happened in Ohio)
“See RFK, Jr.’s article in The Rolling Stone.”
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/11717105/robert_f_kennedy_jr__will_the_next_election_be_hacked
It took me 15 seconds on Google. Why are SOME people so unaware of information that’s old to the rest of us?
Rage:
Common Dreams = tinfoil. They are what they are. Their “evidence” amounts to “the polls were wrong.” No kidding – pollsters are wrong. A lot.
As to the other cite; you have shown evidence of incompetence, not complicity. You want me to admit that the machines are crappy? OK – they’re crappy.
You’re still not there. You’re not even close. I wouldn’t go to a judge with PC for a warrant with this evidence, much less even “substantial and compelling” or “beyond a reasonable doubt.”
I know. Job on the brain.
I have a feeling that things will become very ugly on and after election day. I hope that the sheeple finally lose all faith in our system because the rotten, filthy fraud called “democracy” needs to crumble into dust!
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!
Rage:
I’m fully aware of the article. I’ve also read the criticisms of it by the pollsters themselves, who wrote that RFK had misapplied the data.
Yea, I know, I should track down a cite. It’s been a couple of years ago, I don’t know if it’s still out there. I’ll try to look.
In any case, it’s essentially the same argument – the polls couldn’t be wrong. But they are. Often.
Yeah Ian, show those rainbow brite stealin federalis who’s boss!
You’re funny, GMC! You in fact were the first AND only one on this thread to use the word “conspiracy.” I pointed out (1) some disturbing, unexplained anomalies in voting patterns and (2) a small taste of how Diebold operates.
Voter fraud by Republican officials is well-documented (think Florida and Ohio–oh right, those didn’t happen!), but that’s beside the point. I don’t trust ANYONE to play nice when the voter totals can be manipulated with the greatest of ease.
If you allow it, it WILL happen.
P.S. Dead people in Illinois elected Kennedy, you know.
I see the lib cry babies are at it again. Methinks you people are just gearing up for a week from today. When the good guys do better than you and the MSM think, we will hear more crying.It was Nader and Tennessee that lost you the elections. It was your lazy ass constituancy that didn’t show up to the polls that lost you the elections.Lib = crybaby pussies
2000 – it was nader and lousy GOTV efforts. However, in 2004 OH was dubious. The standards the US applied to Ukraine and (former Soviet) Georgia would indicate that Ohio was fixed.
“Ohio was fixed”You make me wonder sometimes, Ben.Why did Kerry throw in the towel so quickly? Paid off? That is what I will declare. With absolutely no evidence, I declare that John Kerry was paid off by the GOP. No, Haliburton. That’s it. Haliburton.
hotlick – the US State department used the same criteria to declare that the Ukraine and Georgia elections were fixed. That is all I said – the same criteria would indicate that.
gmc70, you asked for proof that ben’s statement was true. I provided proof that the statement was made so you changed your line. And like a typical republican, you “pulled a bush” and moved the goal posts. ROFLMAO! In fact, you are almost as good a comedian as limbaugh! Keep up the good work.
And you must have missed this GAO report on the Ohio elections.http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05956.pdf
Among other things, the GAO confirms that:
1. Some electronic voting machines “did not encrypt cast ballots or system audit logs, and it was possible to alter both without being detected.” In other words, the GAO now confirms that electronic voting machines provided an open door to flip an entire vote count. More than 800,000 votes were cast in Ohio on electronic voting machines, some seven times Bush’s official margin of victory.
2. “It was possible to alter the files that define how a ballot looks and works so that the votes for one candidate could be recorded for a different candidate.” Numerous sworn statements and affidavits assert that this did happen in Ohio 2004.
3. “Vendors installed uncertified versions of voting system software at the local level.” 3. Falsifying election results without leaving any evidence of such an action by using altered memory cards can easily be done, according to the GAO.
4. The GAO also confirms that access to the voting network was easily compromised because not all digital recording electronic voting systems (DREs) had supervisory functions password-protected, so access to one machine provided access to the whole network. This critical finding confirms that rigging the 2004 vote did not require a “widespread conspiracy” but rather the cooperation of a very small number of operatives with the power to tap into the networked machines and thus change large numbers of votes at will. With 800,000 votes cast on electronic machines in Ohio, flipping the number needed to give Bush 118,775 could be easily done by just one programmer.
5. Access to the voting network was also compromised by repeated use of the same user IDs combined with easily guessed passwords. So even relatively amateur hackers could have gained access to and altered the Ohio vote tallies.
6. The locks protecting access to the system were easily picked and keys were simple to copy, meaning, again, getting into the system was an easy matter.
7. One DRE model was shown to have been networked in such a rudimentary fashion that a power failure on one machine would cause the entire network to fail, re-emphasizing the fragility of the system on which the Presidency of the United States was decided.
8. GAO identified further problems with the security protocols and background screening practices for vendor personnel, confirming still more easy access to the system.
In essence, the GAO study makes it clear that no bank, grocery store or mom & pop chop shop would dare operate its business on a computer system as flimsy, fragile and easily manipulated as the one on which the 2004 election turned.
The GAO findings are particularly damning when set in the context of an election run in Ohio by a Secretary of State simultaneously working as co-chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign. Far from what election theft skeptics have long asserted, the GAO findings confirm that the electronic network on which 800,000 Ohio votes were cast was vulnerable enough to allow a a tiny handful of operatives — or less — to turn the whole vote count using personal computers operating on relatively simple software.
The GAO documentation flows alongside other crucial realities surrounding the 2004 vote count. For example:
# The exit polls showed Kerry winning in Ohio, until an unexplained last minute shift gave the election to Bush. Similar definitive shifts also occurred in Iowa, Nevada and New Mexico, a virtual statistical impossibility.
# A few weeks prior to the election, an unauthorized former ES&S voting machine company employee, was caught on the ballot-making machine in Auglaize County
# Election officials in Mahoning County now concede that at least 18 machines visibly transferred votes for Kerry to Bush. Voters who pushed Kerry’s name saw Bush’s name light up, again and again, all day long. Officials claim the problems were quickly solved, but sworn statements and affidavits say otherwise. They confirm similar problems in Franklin County (Columbus). Kerry’s margins in both counties were suspiciously low.
# A voting machine in Mahoning County recorded a negative 25 million votes for Kerry. The problem was allegedly fixed.
# In Gahanna Ward 1B, at a fundamentalist church, a so-called “electronic transfer glitch” gave Bush nearly 4000 extra votes when only 638 people voted at that polling place. The tally was allegedly corrected, but remains infamous as the “loaves and fishes” vote count.
# In Franklin County, dozens of voters swore under oath that their vote for Kerry faded away on the DRE without a paper trail.
# In Miami County, at 1:43am after Election Day, with the county’s central tabulator reporting 100% of the vote – 19,000 more votes mysteriously arrived; 13,000 were for Bush at the same percentage as prior to the additional votes, a virtual statistical impossibility.
# In Cleveland, large, entirely implausible vote totals turned up for obscure third party candidates in traditional Democratic African-American wards. Vote counts in neighboring wards showed virtually no votes for those candidates, with 90% going instead for Kerry.
# Prior to one of Blackwell’s illegitimate “show recounts,” technicians from Triad voting machine company showed up unannounced at the Hocking County Board of Elections and removed the computer hard drive.
# In response to official information requests, Shelby and other counties admit to having discarded key records and equipment before any recount could take place.
# In a conference call with Rev. Jackson, Attorney Cliff Arnebeck, Attorney Bob Fitrakis and others, John Kerry confirmed that he lost every precinct in New Mexico that had a touchscreen voting machine. The losses had no correlation with ethnicity, social class or traditional party affiliation—only with the fact that touchscreen machines were used.
# In a public letter, Rep. Conyers has stated that “by and large, when it comes to a voting machine, the average voter is getting a lemon – the Ford Pinto of voting technology. We must demand better.”
But the GAO report now confirms that electronic voting machines as deployed in 2004 were in fact perfectly engineered to allow a very small number of partisans with minimal computer skills and equipment to shift enough votes to put George W. Bush back in the White House.
Given the growing body of evidence, it appears increasingly clear that’s exactly what happened.
I agree completely. All the more reason to hate John Kerry for taking the bribe. No wonder he thinks that our military is made up of idiots who got bad grades because they didn’t study enough to get smart. Now,after the pay off, he’s rich, BIATCH!
ELECTIONSGlitches cited in early votingEarly voters are urged to cast their ballots with care following scattered reports of problems with heavily used machines.
BY CHARLES RABIN AND DARRAN SIMONdsimon@MiamiHerald.com
After a week of early voting, a handful of glitches with electronic voting machines have drawn the ire of voters, reassurances from elections supervisors — and a caution against the careless casting of ballots.
Several South Florida voters say the choices they touched on the electronic screens were not the ones that appeared on the review screen — the final voting step.
Election officials say they aren’t aware of any serious voting issues. But in Broward County, for example, they don’t know how widespread the machine problems are because there’s no process for poll workers to quickly report minor issues and no central database of machine problems.
In Miami-Dade, incidents are logged and reported daily and recorded in a central database. Problem machines are shut down.
”In the past, Miami-Dade County would send someone to correct the machine on site,” said Lester Sola, county supervisor of elections. Now, he said, “We close the machine down and put a seal on it.”
Debra A. Reed voted with her boss on Wednesday at African-American Research Library and Cultural Center near Fort Lauderdale. Her vote went smoothly, but boss Gary Rudolf called her over to look at what was happening on his machine. He touched the screen for gubernatorial candidate Jim Davis, a Democrat, but the review screen repeatedly registered the Republican, Charlie Crist.
That’s exactly the kind of problem that sends conspiracy theorists into high gear — especially in South Florida, where a history of problems at the polls have made voters particularly skittish.
A poll worker then helped Rudolf, but it took three tries to get it right, Reed said.
”I’m shocked because I really want . . . to trust that the issues with irregularities with voting machines have been resolved,” said Reed, a paralegal. “It worries me because the races are so close.”
Broward Supervisor of Elections spokeswoman Mary Cooney said it’s not uncommon for screens on heavily used machines to slip out of sync, making votes register incorrectly. Poll workers are trained to recalibrate them on the spot — essentially, to realign the video screen with the electronics inside. The 15-step process is outlined in the poll-workers manual.
”It is resolved right there at the early-voting site,” Cooney said.
Broward poll workers keep a log of all maintenance done on machines at each site. But the Supervisor of Elections office doesn’t see that log until the early voting period ends. And a machine isn’t taken out of service unless the poll clerk decides it’s a chronic poor performer that can’t be fixed.
Cooney said no machines have been removed during early voting, and she is not aware of any serious problems.
In Miami-Dade, two machines have been taken out of service during early voting. No votes were lost, Sola said.
Joan Marek, 60, a Democrat from Hollywood, was also stunned to see Charlie Crist on her ballot review page after voting on Thursday. ”Am I on the voting screen again?” she wondered. “Well, this is too weird.”
Marek corrected her ballot and alerted poll workers at the Hollywood satellite courthouse, who she said told her they’d had previous problems with the same machine.
Poll workers did some work on her machine when she finished voting, Marek said. But no report was made to the Supervisor of Elections office and the machine was not removed, Cooney said.
Workers at the Hollywood poll said there had been no voting problems on Friday.
Mauricio Raponi wanted to vote for Democrats across the board at the Lemon City Library in Miami on Thursday. But each time he hit the button next to the candidate, the Republican choice showed up. Raponi, 53, persevered until the machine worked. Then he alerted a poll worker.
Debra A. Reed voted with her boss on Wednesday at African-American Research Library and Cultural Center near Fort Lauderdale. Her vote went smoothly, but boss Gary Rudolf called her over to look at what was happening on his machine. He touched the screen for gubernatorial candidate Jim Davis, a Democrat, but the review screen repeatedly registered the Republican, Charlie Crist.
I knew there was something up in 2000 when I was watching the election coverage and Barbara Bush and rest of George W. Bush’s family was being videotaped.
When the news called the election for Gore, Barbara Bush’s face turned into this nasty pattern of twists and turns and the first words from her mouth was “what about Florida?”. Her expression told everything. She KNEW something was up with Florida. She kept saying something about Florida wasn’t in yet.
That’s why I believe the 2000 election was rigged in favor of Bush and why 2004 was also rigged in favor of Bush.
Barbara’s face told the whole story.
Rage:
I know. And check out New York, where the dead STILL vote.
And I agree – vote totals must be secure. I don’t think anyone’s disputing that.
“Voter fraud by Republican officials is well-documented.” To be blunt, BS. No more than vote fraud, by BOTH parties (see dead people above) is part of our history. The current democratic resistance to picture IDs to vote in many states is driven by a democratic belief that they will benefit from vote fraud.
We’ll see, come next Tuesday.
God help us.You people don’t do much for your credibility.If you are whining about everything, you are whining about nothing.Libs = whinersLook it up.
Dave:
No moving goalposts, just seeking some evidence of what was charged. Just trying to get y’all to meet some serious standard. Serious charges require serious proof.
GAO report: I see lots of “could of, might of, could be” – but speculation does not constitute evidence, never mind proof. Once again. Crappy machines? Certainly. Could have been rigged? Perhaps; either party COULD have done so, it appears. Your arguement amounts to “the election could have been fixed, and Bush won, therefore it must have been fixed.” Not good enough.
What I mostly see is preparation for challenges next Tuesday; see post to CF way above. Democrats may just have to raid the cemetaries more than usual. Get the dead to vote early and often. How appropriate for Halloween!
;-0
And CR doesn’t even need evidence; he reads minds. Wow.
We’ll see, won’t we?
This study looks at the discrepency between the exit polls and vote count in Ohio. It suggests something was wrong and not with the exit polling as the authors of the exit poll (Edison & Mitofsky) claimed.
It assumes some statistical knowledge, but I think most can follow its points.
http://electionarchive.org/ucvAnalysis/US/Exit_Polls_2004_Edison-Mitofsky.pdf
It does not provide grounds for a conspiracy claim, but shows convincingly, to me at least, that something was wrong in Ohio in 2004.
Reading minds was not my point – pinhead. A person’s expression tells everything. Especially, George’s momma!
Interesting thing is that the US State department used exactly that sort of information to declare other elections fixed.
Could you look up my charge that Kerry was paid off?It makes about as much sense.
GMC – do you really think the Bush family and Republicans are above voter fraud or rigging elections? Where were you born – in a barn with the other sheeple?
The American Bar Ass. is a big lib org. What happened to the law suits?I thought Bush is an idiot, maybe not. It turns out he can manipulate gas prices and rig an election.Brilliant!
How can there be an investigation when Bush Administration has total power in all three branches of government?
George is not manipulating gas prices or rigging elections, but his big money corporate goons know how to do it – dont’ they?
Bush and the Republicans have sold this country’s soul to the highest bidder (foreign or domestic). We are indebted to the Chinese to finance this insane war and yet Republicans still support this administration because???
What kind of country are we leaving to our grandchildren and their children? We should be ashamed of the massive destruction that has been done in the name of God or profit.
That’s another thing about you people. What’s wrong with profit? One has a good and sells it for as much as he can get. No guns are involved. If he is charging too much, no one buys. He either lowers his price or goes out of business. The markets work.I bet Air America wishes they made a profit.
gmc70, ben just quoted the chief executive officer of Diebold and you immediately started screaming conspiracy. Whether or not they actually did conspire is a matter for the courts, don’t you think? Although the GAO report I cited earlier does bring the whole thing into question, don’t you think?
Do any of you work? You people, all of you have way too much time on your hands!
50-60 hours/week RONJ. Not counting my self-employment on the side. And you?
I make all mine in 25 hours. And you?
Very interesting. I see reasonable, well-researched arguments stating that is it possible that Diebold machines had been tampered with in previous elections. And I see frantic, name-calling responses backed up with no evidence.
I teach critical thinking, argumentation, and composition, and it’s clear where the logic and evidence is in this debate.
We can do better than “it’s possible that Diebold …”Where is the “is”? Where is the beyond possible in any significant way?Motherlowman, you are a charlatan.
I cite the Ohio elections of 2004.
I well remember THAT day. Right wing shills Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity were literally PLEADING CAJOLING AND WHEEDLING the right to get out and vote. You’d have though the sky was falling! That is because they were seeing the exit polls that did not look good for bush.
As was cited earlier, exit polls are NEVER wrong. That is why Rush and Hannity were so emotional. Aww but once the fix was in and bush was “elected” why suddenly those exit polls aren’t credible?
Come on.
There is NO REASON the GOP should keep the House OR the Senate. They have failed utterly. Yet karl rove and bush remain confident…..
The fix is in and they know it.
So this is what you Republicans have come to. You will cheat because you cannot win.
Uh People, hearsay are not facts.
What is wrong with profit is when the corporations deliberately gouge the very American citizens that the company has been blessed to do business in. Gas is not something most people can do without and, let’s face it, oil companies have been making record profits even when gas prices were lowered recently.
So, in answer to your question about what is wrong with profit? Making a profit at what cost to the country? What kind of country do you want to live in? Those who gouge others (black market?) or those willing to make a lesser profit and be good citizens of the USA?
The choice is yours and mine. And the choice will be decided on November 7th as to the political players in the next section of this game.
I wonder how many people do you have to screw over to make your living in 25 hrs a week?
Someone asked about lawsuits concerning the Ohio 2004 elections? There was another law suit filed last week. Check the national news.
Which Ohio county removed overseers and barred themselves behind locked doors to “count” the ballots? (My links are gone.)
Anybody remember the phone line jamming that went on in New Jersey over the New Hampshire Governor’s race? They got caught.
LISA MYERS, NBC SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Keith, as you well know, both Republicans and Democrats have engaged in dirty tricks over the years. Alan Raymond is among the few who got caught and paid a heavy price.
(voice-over): For years, Alan Raymond was a prominent Republican operative with a reputation for bare-knuckle tactics.
ALAN RAYMOND: Political campaigns are very aggressive. The aggressor wins. When you are aggressive, you are pushing the envelope.
MYERS (on camera): In an exclusive interview, Raymond admits that four years ago, he went beyond pushing the envelope and actually crossed the line. He spent three months in prison. Now, in a civil suit, Democrats are trying to tie his misdeeds to the White House.
(voice-over): It all happened during a hard-fought battle for the U.S. Senate in New Hampshire between then-Democratic Governor Jean Shaheen and Republican John Sununu. Raymond was running a telemarketing firm. He says an old friend from the Republican National Committee, James Tobin (ph), came to him with an idea, use nonstop hangup calls to tie up Democratic phone lines on election day.
RAYMOND: He gave he a call and outlined the program and asked me if it was something that was, that could be done.
MYERS (on camera): So you were trying to create chaos and keep Democrats from getting out their vote.
RAYMOND: That’s right. We were trying to create chaos and prevent the Democratic Party from operating efficiently.
Read the transcript of this one from Monday night on Countdown w/ Keith Olbermann
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15498214/