Brent Castillo (aka “Values Boy”) wrote a column in The Eagle last month about the fertility gap between liberals and conservatives. A USA Today news article last week reported on both that and the marriage gap. It noted that Republican House members overwhelmingly come from districts that have high percentages of married people and lots of children. Meanwhile, it reported, not only do Democratic districts tend to have fewer children, those children are far more likely to live in poverty and with single parents than kids in GOP districts.
A couple of interesting stats from the article:
Democrats represent 59 districts in which less than half of adults are married. Republicans represent only two.
Democrats represent 30 districts in which less than half of children live with married parents. Republicans represent none.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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This sounds like the Republicans just represent the more affluent people in their states. That’s no surprise, most GOP voters are the ones who are more concerned about their portfolios and money.
I wish the article that this linked to provided more detail of where they got their statistics…obviously if you’re comparing Utah to California, yeah duh, but think deep south where poverty and divorce is big.
Of course minorities are overwhelmingly going to vote for democrats, there aren’t very many republican minorities to begin with.
The Deep South also voted for Bush twice. The average person in the South would be lucky if they graduated from high school. Perhaps that explains their voting record?
Haw haw haw! So even the Eagle’s editorial staff is now calling Brent Castillo “Values Boy!”
Ladies and gentlemen, hats off to ksfarmgrrl.
I hesitate to introduce some common sense in this debate but…‚Ä¢Republicans by and large support, marriage between a man and a woman which usually produces children‚Ä¢They do not support abortion, which seeks to destroy lives and inhibit families.‚Ä¢They believe in less government interference in one’s personal life, more personal responsibility‚Ä¢More than anything else they believe in and acknowledge a higher law and authority then earthly law. That one simple fact explains why there are both more marriages and by effect more children.
Can children be raised in a one parent home? Absolutely. Is that the best way to raise a child, absolutely not. If more people cared about their chidren more than they cared about themselves, the rates of divorice might go down. Chidren raised in a loving two parent home usually seek that same kind of stability. Go figure.
seanmahair,
Ah, so now it’s back to smug arguments about the moral superiority of one group versus the moral inferiority of another.
Well, seanmahair, as much as these sentiments probably make you swell with pride, they don’t hold up in the light of day. Here’s a bit of debunking about Democrats, Republicans, marriage, and divorce. What Republicans preach about marriage and child-rearing is evidently contradicted by their practice in a number of the “red” states.
Some of us here on the WeBlog prefer demographics to cherished myths.
***********************************
Walking the walk on family valuesBy William V. D’Antonio | October 31, 2004
The Boston Globe
PRESIDENT Bush and Vice President Cheney make reference to “Massachusetts liberals” as if they were referring to people with some kind of disease. I decided it was time to do some research on these people, and here is what I found.
The state with the lowest divorce rate in the nation is Massachusetts. At latest count it had a divorce rate of 2.4 per 1,000 population, while the rate for Texas was 4.1.
But don’t take the US government’s word for it. Take a look at the findings from the George Barna Research Group. George Barna, a born-again Christian whose company is in Ventura, Calif., found that Massachusetts does indeed have the lowest divorce rate among all 50 states. More disturbing was the finding that born-again Christians have among the highest divorce rates.
The Associated Press, using data supplied by the US Census Bureau, found that the highest divorce rates are to be found in the Bible Belt. The AP report stated that “the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average of 4.2 per thousand people.” The 10 Southern states with some of the highest divorce rates were Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, and Texas. By comparison nine states in the Northeast were among those with the lowest divorce rates: Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Vermont.
How to explain these differences? The following factors provide a partial answer:
More couples in the South enter their first marriage at a younger age.
Average household incomes are lower in the South.
Southern states have a lower percentage of Roman Catholics, “a denomination that does not recognize divorce.” Barna’s study showed that 21 percent of Catholics had been divorced, compared with 29 percent of Baptists.
Education. Massachusetts has about the highest rate of education in the country, with 85 percent completing high school. For Texas the rate is 76 percent. One third of Massachusetts residents have completed college, compared with 23 percent of Texans, and the other Northeast states are right behind Massachusetts.
The liberals from Massachusetts have long prided themselves on their emphasis on education, and it has paid off: People who stay in school longer get married at a later age, when they are more mature, are more likely to secure a better job, and job income increases with each level of formal education. As a result, Massachusetts also leads in per capita and family income while births by teenagers, as a percent of total births, was 7.4 for Massachusetts and 16.1 for Texas.
The Northeast corridor, with Massachusetts as the hub, does have one of the highest levels of Catholics per state total. And it is also the case that these are among the states most strongly supportive of the Catholic Church’s teaching on social justice issues such as minimum and living wages and universal healthcare.
For all the Bible Belt talk about family values, it is the people from Kerry’s home state, along with their neighbors in the Northeast corridor, who live these values. Indeed, it is the “blue” states, led led by Massachusetts and Connecticut, that have been willing to invest more money over time to foster the reality of what it means to leave no children behind. And they have been among the nation’s leaders in promoting a living wage as their goal in public employment. The money they have invested in their future is known more popularly as taxes; these so-called liberal people see that money is their investment to help insure a compassionate, humane society. Family values are much more likely to be found in the states mistakenly called out-of-the-mainstream liberal. By their behavior you can know them as the true conservatives. They are showing how to conserve family life through the way they live their family values. William V. D’Antonio is professor emeritus at University of Connecticut and a visiting research professor at Catholic University in Washington, D.C.
Hmm, married people winning a fertility race. First, didn’t know there was a race for that sort of thing. Second, if there was perhaps the Democratic party didn’t include their illegal registrants from the south of the border.
What’s next? Republicans people that are married file more joint returns and therefore granted favor by the Bush controlled IRS?
Paranoia and conspiracy theories only needs a little bit of encouragment to grow.
Amazing to me how bumper-sticker logic gets more weight than actual thought out conclusions.
Growing up in the Deep South I remember wild concerns that minorities were “winning the fertility race” and that that would destroy the country.
Ben Huie,
Actually, after witnessing a near riot in Old Town on Saturday night, I’m beginning to agree with the Baptists: allowing drinking and public dancing will be the ruin of our proud society.
Race-mixing, by contrast, has been an unqualified success and a boon to our country.
CF – what was going on in Old Town?
I went to the Stones concert and saw no trouble whatever.
Ben Huie,
Couple a fistfights, couple of hundred people milling around spoiling for a fight, couple of dozen edgy cops.
I don’t much like Old Town on weekend nights. Lots of alcohol-fuelled horniness and aggression, which always seems on the edge of exploding into potential mob violence.
Ian
Growing up where I did, an “occasional dustup” was good clean fun. The rare occasion when someone pulled a club-like weapon generally got that person a good thumping from all sides. That was just dirty pool and no one stood for it. Those days are gone. Our society has degraded to the point that you can’t even have a good fight in the parking lot without the risk of someone getting killed. It’s a sad, sad thing.
The effects described by Mr. Brownlee are the results of gerrymandering. Get a brain everyone.
Lord help us! We’re heading towards a world overpopulated with right-wing religious fanatics of all faiths. Would somebody please spike the sacramental wine with depo-provera?
Hey Ian, my Mexican girlfriend and I are going to Mexico later this month to do some lovely little “race mixing” as you call it. I hope that thought upsets you.
Better yet, she’s a Mexican citizen too, not even an American. I hope that blows your gasket.
It doesn’t take brains to have babies. Just look around here in Wichita. Maybe that’s why these regions are represented by Republicans. The brainless politicians are leading the brainless?
what lucee said
Semenhair–
Wow, your cut and paste talking points of the Rapture Right is truly impressive.
Now if only the Rapture Right’s “higher law and authority” included good stewardship of the earth instead of overpopulating it, you’d really have something worthy of pride.
hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee
What a FUNNY thing to wake up to on Monday.
hee hee hee hee
Thanks CF. Dave is new so he probably didnt know who christened him “values boy”.
hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee
Now if they would just get RID of his ass……
Maybe he could be Foley’s PR guy after he repents and has a miraculous conversion? Surely that pays better than the WE.
hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee
I remember reading an article a while ago that boiled down to the fact that higher educated people have fewer children than those with less education. Could be the reason for repukes breeding like rabbits.
It’s really funny to read these debates. Generally both of the major parties are trying to be the ‘inclusive’ ones and fighting anyone stereo-typing their membership. Then along comes some researcher who decides to define a stereotype. Up jumps the debate clubs all trying to make sure everyone knows that all the smart people are in their party, all the really successful people are there, or name_that_desirable_quality people are on my side.
Are they pulling these facts from the recent article from the Family Research Council? We all know who runs that now don’t we?Dobson’s group.. Yeah I REALLY trust these guys.
“[W]hen it comes to Congress, marriage and parenthood define what’s different about Democratic and Republican districts even more clearly than race, income, education or geography. Republican House members overwhelmingly come from districts that have high percentages of married people and lots of children. Democrats’ districts, however, are stocked with people who have never married and have few children. The demographic data is illuminating: Republicans control 49 of the 50 districts with the highest rates of married people while Democrats represent all 50 districts that have the highest rates of adults who have never married; Democrats represent 30 districts in which fewer than half of children live with married parents. Republicans represent none; Republican Congress members represent 39.2 million children, about 7 million more than Democrats, an average of 7,000 more children per district. Politicians and pundits who want to really understand political differences in the U.S. should take a hard look at this ‘marriage and fertility gap’.” —Tony Perkins
In America divorce in general must be done away with. Then we wouldn’t be having this stupid little argument about who’s side is poppin out more kids and sheltering in homes with two parents. I do not agree with CF’s take on it that liberals are actually the true conservatives. One need only study the current situation of the Far-Left European countries like France and the Scandinavian countries to see that people who adhere to a Far-Left ideology tend to have far fewer children and far more divorces than people from more traditionally conservatives countries. That is why France has to rely on FOREIGN manpower from the Middle East to keep there economy from capsizing. Describing liberals as “true conservatives” is laughable. If anything, France, Spain, Germany all of Europe should have stuck to its Roman Catholic roots like the Philippines where divorce is banned and abortion is banned, and it’s still socially acceptable to have large traditional families! So you “educated, and sophisticated liberal” types can go ahead and keep aborting your kids and ruining your families with divorce and relying on foreigners to fill in the gap. Just don’t come cryin to us when you realize that your little social experiment has failed miserably, and that the Face and Identity of your nations are forever lost! I have always said time and again, that FAMILIES ARE THE BUILDING BLOCKS OF SOCIETY just like any professional sociologist will tell you, but of course your little social experiment will forever be superior in your eyes to the tried and tested ancient practice of traditional conservatism.
Exactly what is the “face and identity” of our nations Will? And banning divorce would do exactly what for society? Are you claiming that to have two people in a relationship they do not want to be in is better for society? How? Screw the two parent child crap. How would two people without children serve society better being in a relationship neither of them want to be in? And for my last question to you. Are you really so stupid as to beleive that France relies on foreign manpower to keep its economy running because of the rate people get divorces? Am I not understanding you correctly or are you a complete fucking moron?
k,
You’re a liberal aren’t you?
MY POINT EXACTLY. ;)
k,
What do YOU think is the best way to raise children?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/27/world/main546441.shtml
Who’s the “complete fucking moron” now?
;)
“That is going to push the population toward decline,” he said. “Whether it actually ends up in a decline will depend on other factors, particularly migration. … The European population may not decline if migration is high enough to offset this population momentum.”
Did it just say that EUROPE MUST RELY ON IMMIGRATION to offset the population decline? It did didn’t it K? I am assuming of course that you understand English.
:)
“The implications of negative momentum are small right now, but they are going to get bigger quickly,” he said. “If you have another 10 years of low fertility, that decline (by 2100) would be 25 to 40 million. If we have two decades of low fertility, then it would be another 25 to 40 million.”
Hans-Peter Kohler, a University of Pennsylvania researcher who has written extensively on population trends, said the paper by O’Neill and his co-authors is “a quite important study.”
He said the research demonstrates that fertility in a population can be significantly affected by social trends that encourage women to delay starting a family. Although this has had a major effect on the European population, he said, it has not been a major factor in the United States.
“There is a delay in the U.S., but it is much less pronounced when compared to the Europeans,” said Kohler.
O’Neill’s co-authors on the study in Science were Wolfgang Lutz and Sergei Scherbov of the Vienna Institute of Demography, a part of the Austrian Academy of Sciences in Vienna.
k,Here’s some advice. Before you dismiss someone’s views as being ridiculous on any particular issue, you should first and foremost have an understanding of the issue at hand.
Peace be with you.
Guillermo Vicente de la Vega
Will,And how many ex-wives do you have?You eliminate the possibility of divorce in this day and age, and the solution our kids have will be to never get married in the first place.
Jed,
Never had one, I’m not exactly settled yet, but their are a few nice young Catholic women that I fancy. With what you have said above, you are assuming of course that kids today think that marriage is not a permanent institution. This is sadly due to the fact that American society condones such a stance (that marriage is impermanent) and also due to the fact of divorce’s acceptance amongst the Protestant majority of this country in the past. Jed, I’m calling you on it. Ask anyone on their wedding day if they would get married just to terminate it (monetary reasons aside of course) and you would effectively get a negative response. Not all marriages are doomed to failure, where you got such a sentiment I will not speculate, but with the angry reactions I’ve gotten out of some people because I speak out against divorce, I’m thinking I’m making quite a few divorcees annoyed at the very least. I don’t believe myself to be greater or holier than anyone who’s ever been divorced, what I am so adament about is that divorce is a very real threat to the preservation of the family unit. That’s the bottom line, I have no ulterior motive.
please pardon my spelling
“Did it just say that EUROPE MUST RELY ON IMMIGRATION to offset the population decline?” So you are able to do an internet news serarch. How does divorce affect the French economy? You could also try ansering my other questions. And for the record I never dismiss anyones opinion outright. I usually think about it (in this case it took all of a few seconds) and then formulate an opinion based on real facts on hand. I dismiss your opinions because they do not appear to be based on facts. (I will read the link you posted a little later to give me more arguments to use against you.)
k,
knock yerself out! :)
k,When did I say that DIVORCEES are bad for the French economy? I said no such thing. However I will say that the population decline has an adverse effect on the French economy for obvious economic reasons which I’m sure you’re smart enough to comprehend. SPeaking of answering questions, you still haven’t answered the one I posted:
What do YOU think is the best way to raise children?
Let me just say for the record that just because I’m against divorce, doesn’t mean that I believe divorcees are bad people or that divorcees are not productive citizens in the respective countries in which they exist. From what I gather, you must be one of those divorcees of whom I have verily annoyed. Let me just say that I’m anti-divorce because divorce is anti-family; and just because I’m anti-divorce doesn’t mean I’m anti-divorcee! I hope you get the dichotomy that exists between the two.
William Vincent de la Vega
I’m so glad the rest of us have oh-so-moral people like Will telling us that divorce should be outlawed. Yeah, those were the good ol’ days, when a husband could beat his wife with no repercussions, when extremely unhappily married people having to stay together to satisfy the dogmatic folks like Will (who knows better about other people’s lives and the sacred institution of marriage than anyone (even though he admittedly has never been married)).
What is it about right-wingers and thinking they’re better than everyone? That they’re somehow more moral than others because they pull a lever that has an (R) next to it? Its really arrogant and baseless, but also extremely hypocritical. CAN YOU SAY MARK FOLEY?
Well Will this certainly appears that you are drawing a link between divorce and whatever situation there is in France “One need only study the current situation of the Far-Left European countries like France and the Scandinavian countries to see that people who adhere to a Far-Left ideology tend to have far fewer children and far more divorces than people from more traditionally conservatives countries. That is why France has to rely on FOREIGN manpower from the Middle East to keep there economy from capsizing.” Actually since France has almost 10% unemployment I would imagine that neither ‘relying’ foreign manpower, divorces or having fewer children is the cause of that. Or is there another situation you were referring to?
Will is a complete and total idiot, that’s all there is to it. If I had stayed in my first marriage, I’d probably be dead by now and my daughter his sex toy.
God how it must be interesting to live in such naivity. And anyone who thinks we need MORE children in this world needs their head examined. We’re well overpopulated as it is.Millions of babies already starve to death every day.
Will probably wants divorce made illegal so he can dominate his wife and leave her with no escape. Maybe he’ll even make her wear a burka.
All latinos are non-white.
Ian, please begin hating yourself. Preferably elsewhere.
“Haw haw haw! So even the Eagle’s editorial staff is now calling Brent Castillo ‘Values Boy!’”
Way too tired to “really” post, but I thought this EVENT deserved a raised glass just the same! Thanks Phillip!
P.S. Postal, there are indeed white Cubans etc. Despite that, hardcore American racists generally don’t acknowledge the difference, obsessing over any little perceived racial impurity, and it’s rather odd that Ian can’t see that. I’d like to see how well he’d fare at a Klan meeting.
Oh boy, it seems there are quite a number of irate divorcees who find my stance on divorce “unpopular” at the least. Fair enough, i’ve said my piece, I won’t exacerbate this situation any further. However, allow me to indulge one last question:
If you really believe that marriage can be dissolved by divorce, why then is monogamous heterosexual marriage still the social norm of the overwhelming majority of humanity? If marriage is terminable then why didn’t the teeming masses of married people through the centuries just do away with monogamous heterosexual marriage?
Because it was easier to get a mistress.
Shut up, bitch, and get back in the kitchen and make dinner.
(I might regret this post tomorrow, but I doubt it ;-)
Despite all of your name calling it is interesting to note that NONE of you ever answered my question:
What do you think is the best way to raise children?
I am rather curious as to what you pro-divorce advocates would say. I wonder what form of Bolshevik government agency would you allow to “farm” babies rather than raising them in traditional families. Perhaps since you who love divorce and hate the idea of raising kids in families would welcome the idea of raising children like cattle, but I for one am not impressed. So anybody here have the balls to actually answer my question!?
Will, I think we’re the only ones still awake. . . and I’m barely awake. Cranking up the hyperbole a bit, ain’t ya?
The negroes and non_white latinos are the most profligate breeders. that is why hillary and fat teddy are trying to give felons and wetbacks the right to vote!
PS Clavin, the Klan have no problem with my SPANISH heritage but they do object to real Catholics.:)
Viva La raza Blanco!!
Pmom,
What kind of man maliciously beats his wife and sexually molests his daughter? Of course you did the right thing by leaving the worthless coward! What on earth were you doing married to such an animal? I’m not saying that battered and abused women should stay in abusive relationships! This is specifically why annulments are rightfully enacted by the Catholic Church. Your painting me with a pretty broad brush when you make me out to be pro-violence against women!
Ian,
What? The Klan? You’d fit right in with those low-I.Q. ignorant rednecks! Birds of a feather… and all that jazz!
“but they do object to real Catholics.:)”
See? To them, you’re nothing but a damned Kennedy, Ian! Probably a drunk (honorary Irishman), too. . . ;-)
Yup, that’s it, I am a low iq redneck, and ignorant!
viva La Raza Blanco!!
Rage,
Please don’t use Kennedy and Catholic in the same sentence.
It’s scary. ;)
Best way to raise children? With unconditional love, support and guidance, and complete involvement–and with enough financial resources.
I know what answer you’re looking for. “With one man and one womam in the household hurr”
I was raised by two parents who are about to celebrate their 30th wedding anniversary. I turned out ok but I’m far from perfect. I know crackheads who were brought up by single parents, drunks brought up by two parents still married. I also know many brilliant MS and PhD students raised by single parents.
There’s much more to a successful family than the structure…it’s about how much time and effort you invest. A single father and his daughter or a single mother and her 6 kids are just as much as families as my “traditional” one is. One is not better than the other just based on the makeup.
Rage,
I thought that you like your insomnia? Try 2 iu of human growth hormone after dinner and you will sleep like a baby.
V.L.R.B!!
Well at least you’re honest.
:)
Ooops, it appears I jumped in on a party. It’s only 20 past 9 here, sorry :)
Ian,
You really need to stop juicing up. That shit is terrible for you. How are you gonna provide for your kinder if your not around to provide for them?
Tara,I can’t believe you side-stepped my question with that cheeseball love and affection bit!!! Do you really think that since I believe in traditional marriage that love and divorce should not be a factor in raising children? How shallow do you liberals think I am!?
That should read love and affection.
my bad
Good on you Ian! At least you prioritize your family before yourself. That’s what fatherhood is all about! That’s what our society lacks, strong and caring father figures!
All too often, we Americans prioritize ourselves before anything else! With such an outlook on life, it is small wonder why we hold nothing sacred, not marriage, not children; nothing except looking out for Number One. Instead of idolizing Brad and Angelina and their nobody matters but me philosophy, we should imitate the Lord’s philosophy of self sacrifice!
Gee, I didn’t know there was a “Brad and Angelina” philosophy. Nietszche, Kant, and Mill I know. But then it’s been years. . .
Hollywood philosophy. Philosophizing is humanizing, Rage. Every one of us has a philosophy of his own. Your run of the mill Hollywood actor who is idolized by millions of Americans and imitated by foreigners the world over are no exception!!!
Soren Keirkegaard is my personal favorite by the way.
We live in a rotten, corrupt society where self gratification and the quest for material possessions have become more important than personal responsiblity and honor.
V.L.R.B!!
Ian,There are times when I find your views particularly repulsive and vile, but when you’re right, you really hit the nail on the head. In my opinion, we’ve gotten so self-absorbed that we have effectively replaced God and molded a golden image of ourselves!!! Our obsession with material wealth and the comforts of life are disgusting! I’ve been to third world countries, and I’ve seen poverty! I’ve seen people who live on less than a dollar a day, and let me tell you that they are grateful for every scrap of stale bread they can get their hands on! We have become so comfortable with ourselves that we have forgotten the meaning of gratitude! We take everything for granted in this country, and we bitch and complain so much that we lose sight of just how fortunate we are! That was when I learned to thank God for every breath I take!
Give it time, guys. We’ll eventually achieve third-world squalor.
Is Rage and Mrage the same person? Just curious.
BTW, I agree with you, Ian–the focus on THINGS is embarrassing.
Hehe! Ah no. . .”Rage” is something I came up with on the spur on the moment 11 months ago.
Look at Mrage’s email address, if you get the chance. I stole his name by accident.
Ok.
I still hate the Red Sox though. So the universe is as it should be!
You mean me, you, and Ian agreeing on something? Hehehe!
Stranger things have happened. ..
Yes, but this is verily disturbing.
Let me tell you something ddumb,
It wasn’t Americans who came up with the “sacred institution of marriage” just like it wasn’t Americans who came up with the idea of democracy. Furthermore may I add that just because a man’s hung like horse, doesn’t mean that he has to do porn! So you can take your little asinine comments and stuff it.
Here is an honest question (sans sarcasm) for you Will. Two people are in a marriage with children and the marriage is going south. What effect do you think it will have on the children to be in that home? Don’t say they should get counseling. That is too easy and it takes two people who want to make the marriage work for counseling to be effective, and for argument sake we will say that one doesn’t want to do counseling. What will be the long term psychological effects on the children and do you believe forcing the two to remain married will be best for the children and how?