If this story doesn’t confirm the worst fears about the Bush administration’s regard for criticism, nothing will: A Denver man, Steven Howards, says he approached Vice President Dick Cheney at an outdoor mall in June and calmly said, “I think your policies in Iraq are reprehensible” or words to that effect. Ten minutes later, Howards says, he was in handcuffs for allegedly assaulting Cheney. The misdemeanor harassment charge was dismissed three weeks later, but Howards’ suit now joins one in West Virginia and another in Denver in charging that the Secret Service or White House “violated the law in keeping people with opposing political views away from President Bush or Mr. Cheney,” according to the New York Times.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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63 Comments
Freedom of speech in the Bush world.
Oh yeah, how about your views on Phelps? Everyone wants him shut up! But that’s different right?
No turner. Any time Pharisee Phred wants to criticize a public official he should be free to do so. Some years ago he and his little band picked a meeting I was at. They were well within their rights.
And this is the same bunch that Republicans and Democrats recently voted to give more power to them.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Lord Acton’s comment remains true. The actions remind me of “free speech” on campus in the late ’60s and early “70s; one was free to speak, iff one’s speach was supporting the position of the “student radicals” of the time; if one begged to differ, one was shouted down (or worse). Of course, those folks didn’t have the Secret Service to abuse process, unlike the current VP.
Imagine if Cheney had the power to label the guy as an enemy combatant and hold him in prison indefinately and torture him at will. If he’d arrest him for simply disagreeing with him I wonder what he’d do if some foolish Congressmen would broaden Presidential powers as if someone burned down the Reichstag.
Oh wait, all that actually happened. The Republican message, “Keep you mouth shut or be arrested.” Remember when we had a Bill of Rights?
“I think your policies in Iraq are reprehensible” or words to that effect.”
Perhaps the actual words used were less pleasant or inappropriate in the eyes of the Secret Service and was seen as a threat.
There were a couple of incidents in Clinton’s administration where the Secret Service investigate/detained people for making what could be perceived as threatening remarks.
The random remarks of an individual said in anger towards someone in the executive branch can be construed by agents as an actual threat. These threats are investigated and appropriate judicial channels are sought.
The Secret Service cannot take chances when it comes to protecting the President or Vice President, regardless of their party affiliation.
So, going up to the President or Vice President while shaking your fist and cursing could be construed as threatening. Good advice is don’t do it.
Would it be alright to call Cheney, “A major league asshole”?
So, could telling someone to go F@*& themselves be construed as threatening? Maybe in a terroristic way? It sure does sound violent and unpleasant to me.Maybe our VP should be arrested and charged with making threats too.
sconad,
Indeed: IOKIYAR-VP.
Remember that citizen who turned Cheney’s words back on him when he was down in New Orleans post-Katrina? Good stuff. It’s on You Tube, but I can’t get the link to come up.
Hmm, some people don’t get it yet. Freedom of speech exists, there is no doubt.
But it is not a good idea to charge up to someone in the executive branch and make what is perceived to be threatening statements. You can say it, write it, sing about it, make a movie if you want, just try not to give the Secret Service motive to detain you.
If you are perceived as a threat, you will be handled according to the guidelines the Secret Service has.
Understand now? If not, go ahead and try a similar action and see what happens to you.
Sounds to me like Cheney is abusing his powers, like how many times, can we count them?
It really is sad when you see morons attept to defend the indefensible.
But that is what neocons do isn’t it. I guess expecting otherwise would be like asking a fish not to swim.
Yes JM the accusatory flying finger that finds such morons is pointing straight at you.
JM? The guy said what he said and walked away.
Doug, only if done in a nonthreatening way.
The Secret Servie has a tough job; I don’t envy the individuals with the duty of protecting the President and Vice President. The Kennedy assassination, the attempts on President Ford, the Reagan matter, all point to consider everybody in the crowd a potential assassain, act first, let the judicial system sort it all out, etc.
Having seen the gentleman who was arrested on the tube last night talk about the incident, it seems to me that had he shaken his fist, he wouldn’t be suing now.
JR, Vaughn,It was assault, pure and simple; this guy shoved unpleasant words into the VP’s ear!
We had a location at UCLA where “anything goes” in regards to speech. I often had lunch there – it could be rather entertaining. I never saw any problems with speakers being hassled beyond catcalls.
There were restrictions elsewhere on campus – that makes sense in my opinion. That would be where one might cross the line to “disturbing the peace”
I hope one of those activist judges gets the lawsuit case and then Cheney will really know what “activist judge” means.
Don,t mess with Texas and don’t mess with Dick!
That’s right jw – never tell a Texan OR the Dick the truth!
My question is how come Cheney is out in public anyhow? I thought the low life was in hiding. I have never seen a more secretive, underhanded administration than this one. We all know Cheney is just a rich hateful bastard….I would get the firing squad if I got the chance to speak at him..I am sick of these people….these stories really make me sick….ugh…
I wonder why we didn’t see a headline like the one on this thread when the entire Clinton administration was on a campaign to destroy that little show about their administration…
Or when Clinton blew up on fox news…
Let me go through all the problems with your little post here Rhonda:
First, we are given an assumed quote not an actual one, which is what you base this entire little hit piece of yours on.
Second, you did not begin to show how it was Cheney who somehow ordered the Secret Service to do this or how it is not standard procedure for them. (But you didn’t let that stop you from insinuating that it was Cheney who somehow can’t take it…)
What a great wonderful piece of journalistic trash this was.
The difference Nathn is that Cheney used his power to have his critic jailed. Clinton did not do that.
Ben,
Jailed for a whole three hours… cry me a river.
What was it the DA said:
“It was our understanding that the vice president did not want to prosecute,” Mr. Hurlbert said in a telephone interview.
Oh, did you forget to add that to your little hit piece Rhonda?
So, he just had the guy handcuffed and dragged off and then let him go.
Nathan: “assumed quote”? Guess you were too busy watching Bill O to see Mr. Howards on MSNBC and CNN last night.
Actually, I don’t have TV here.
I was reading the article to which Rhonda linked this little hit piece of hers to.
Ben,
You say “he” had hauled off, but I don’t see that anywhere in the article.
Are you privy to some information showing that Cheney indeed had him hauled off?
Mr. Howards said he then went on his way. About 10 minutes later, he said, he was walking back through the area when Agent Reichle handcuffed him and said he would be charged with assaulting the vice president.
Sounds much like what Brown did in Wichita when the police were falsely arresting an 83 year old woman. Rhonda finds Brown’s actions well outside the pale. Color me confused. Is Rhonda poorly informed or merely another hypocrital liberal?
Are the free speech zones for Bush only? Doesn’t Dick get a hand-picked audience like George does?
Da–
You hate Rhonda because she supports the troops.
Nathan, why attack Rhonda? She isn’t going to answer you, and you know it. Try attacking the issue…without using the word “Clinton,” if at all possible.
JW writes: “Don,t mess with Texas and don’t mess with Dick!”
You’re right, JW.
They make enough messes on their own . . .
Typical liberal when they can’t use logic or facts they start name calling. Right JR?
Let’s see, if Cheney wanted the guy prosecuted in a federal court, he could do so, but he didn’t.
On what you say? Okay, here goes: You cannot breach, impede or otherwise delay, in any manner, a Presidental or Vice Presidential envoy or secured detail which may compromise security measures or detract the attention of Federal officers providing security for said detail.
He’s lucky he is not on the way to a federal holding cell with a couple of U.S. Marshals as escorts.
It was a dumb thing to do.
“It was a dumb thing to do.”
Yep, telling the truth to anyone in the Bush administration is a dumb thing to do.
Hey Ben Huie…
Avoid logic at all costs eh?
Yep – you definitely do a good job of that!
He’s just lucky the clause about not torturing U.S. citizens was written in, or he’d be on his way to GITMO, to get the info. tortured out of him about who put him up to it!You mess with Cheney, you get the Dick!
Hate to say it, but the Secret Service has a serious job to do. Their job is to protect the president and vice-pres. Doesn’t matter to me what party is in power, I expect the Secret Service to do their job, I think they do it very well. They have no way of knowing what a stranger’s intentions are when they walk up to the vice-pres and vent. From the Secret Services standpoint, some unknown person comes up, says something critical to the VP, then shows up again 10 minutes later. I can see where that might possibly arrouse suspicion.
I’d much rather see the Secret Service err on the side of caution. I’ve seen enough assinations in my time.
JM,The operative part of the statement is “Ten minutes later”.
It would seem to me ten minutes was plenty of time for the SS to search this guy, then send him on his way. If impeeding a member of the executive branch calls for such drastic measure, then ten minutes is an awfully long time, don’t you think? Or could it be Cheney may have stepped on this because he had a bad hair day?
Good point J M. Had they thought the man was a threat they would have apprehended him on the spot. Instead, they went after him later and then held him for hours. Like JM said – telling the truth to Cheney is a dumb thing to do.
I am going to state something I have always kept inside. Bill Clinton is someone whom I greatly admire. I like his brain, words, and leadership style.I was angry with him about the blowjob but that is not a reason to hate him or discount his talent.He truly is a world leader where Bush is a cub scout pack leader.
Jim – I agree. While I would give Hillary Lorena Bobbitt’s knife and a pre-approved pardon I DO admire Bill’s intellect.
They better arrest this guy:
Sen. Warner casts dismal view of IraqANNE PLUMMER FLAHERTYAssociated PressWASHINGTON – Sen. John Warner on Thursday offered his darkest assessment yet of Iraq, saying the war there was “drifting sideways” without a commitment from its government to disarm militias.
Warner, a Republican and Bush loyalist, made his comments to reporters upon returning from a recent trip to the region.
He said the military had done what it could and that Congress must make some “bold decisions” if, after three months, progress is not made by the Iraqis to calm ethnic violence and hasten reconstruction.
Warner did not say what he thinks Congress should do, but added all options will be considered. Lawmakers have suggested various remedies, including setting a timetable to pull out U.S. troops and dividing the country into smaller independent ethnic states.
“There is progress being made in certain areas,” said Warner, a Virginian who chairs the Armed Services Committee. But “you just find that so many communities don’t even have drinking water. … It seems to me that the situation is simply drifting sideways.”
While Warner has expressed grave concerns about Iraq in the past, his description of a nation hobbled by violent ethnic killings and an ineffective government was his most pessimistic yet.
It underscored growing concerns among Republicans facing midterm elections this November that the White House must change course. Most recently, House moderate Chris Shays, R-Conn., called on Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld to resign.
Warner’s suggestion that the Iraqi government has a limited time to show improvement echoed a message delivered this week by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. Rice said the security situation was “not one that can be tolerated and it is not one that is being helped by political inaction.”
Pressure on the Iraqi government comes as both U.S. casualties and ethnic killings in Iraq are on the rise, and war-weary voters head to the polls on Nov. 7.
Warner said he sees the next 60 to 90 days as most critical juncture yet in the war because Prime Minister Nouri al-Malaki is growing into the job and says he is committed to disarming militias.
Military generals in Iraq have declined to speculate when U.S. troops might be able to come home. Warner said he was told on his latest trip that, at the earliest, U.S. and Iraqi forces may have an agreement at the end of the year outlining when and how responsibility could begin to be transferred to the Iraqis.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/breaking_news/15688511.htm
“JM,The operative part of the statement is “Ten minutes later”.”
Have you ever seen a Secret Service team deploy? I have and it’s amazing to see. However, on the road they have limited resources and it probably took 10 minutes to free someone up from their initial duty of protection.
It wasn’t a serious security breach, however it was possibly construed as a impediment or at the very least a distraction to the team protecting the Vice President.
Investigating phases always are delayed. Besides, it’s a very old police tactic to detain and identify so that individual is in their database. Like it or not, it’s how things work.
I never thought I would see the day when Americans would stand in favor of the wrongful arrest and detention of fellow Americans based on political disagreement. I am going to be brutally honest. I consider “digger”JM, da and Nathan to be anti-American and a danger to the Republic.
Nathan I would say your mission is over. You no longer have a nation worth fighting for.
XXX I am disappointed by your opinion here. There was no threat to Cheney other than offending his ears. If that is the stuff of imprisonment it is no WONDER they keep bush and Cheney so far away from all but the “bot” crowd. There are not enough jails to hold the offenders!
In case you missed it:
Robin Williams in his new movie –out soon — sums it up best:
“Politicians are like diapers — They should be changed often and for the same reason.”
JR er Ewing,
Wrongful arrest? Take them to court and prove it there. You will find that I was correct about interfering with a security contingent of the Executive Branch.
You do also realize that if you know the truth on a matter that is under investigation and you say “No, I don’t know;” you can be arraigned in court for obstruction of justice?
Anti-American eh? Hmm, I’m a veteran and the 6th generation of Americans that have served their country. I swore an allegiance to protect, preserve and defend my country.
What do you swear to? Or do you just swear? :)
If the Secret Service really felt this man was a threat to Cheney, then why wait 10 minutes to handcuff him?
Was Cheney looking for his hunting during those 10 minutes? We all know what he does to his friends while hunting – just think what Cheney would do with a potential threat.
In the news this week: President-elect George Bush this week finally owned up and admitted that the only reason he chose Dick Cheney as his running mate was to guarantee that no one would attempt to assassinate him in the next four years. “This guy is a walking, breathing bullet-proof vest,” said Bush.
“XXX I am disappointed by your opinion here. There was no threat to Cheney other than offending his ears.”
JR, I didn’t say I liked it, I just said I could see how it could happen. The guy said what he said, left, and then came back. It’s not like he stood around and got arrested a few minutes later. The Secret Service is paid to be paranoid.
Robbin Williams plays the Comedian President. Bush is the Joke President!
If our Congressional representatives are too weak kneed to stand up to this wanna be dictator, we need to replace them while we still can! http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061005/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_privacy
Fortunately, the oil-business-instigated reign of terror is closing. We’re going to have to get down to REAL problems, such as achieving energy sufficiency and reducing global warming. Bush and Co. COULD have done this, but they’re too greedy and too stupid. These plutocrats went for personal gain, at the expense of the populace. That’s so 11th century.
JR,
What is with you and liberals sensationalism of everything?
You are being absurd. The man was not imprisoned, nor do they imprison people who simply dissent politically.
I have seen the Vice President speak before at a Conservative function where you couldn’t get within a hundred feet of the man.
I was grabbed by a Secret Service Agent while excorting a member of the press to the press room because I was in a so called secured area when I did it.
It has nothing to do with stopping someone with dissenting views, it is about protection and stopping anyone from harrassing the VP whether it is about politics or talking to him about football.
Please dont sit here and tell me when this country is and is not worth fighting for when you say the things you do about the military.
What was it you said about your son joining?
And now you dare to say to me anything about this country being worth fighting for?
Well Nathan,
Of all the coments on this thread you picked mine. Did I hit a nerve?
“The man was not imprisoned, nor do they imprison people who simply dissent politically.”
He wasn’t? He was arrested and put in custody for three hours. Why?
“I have seen the Vice President speak before at a Conservative function where you couldn’t get within a hundred feet of the man.”
Yup I understand. This administration does not even PRETEND to be accountable to the people. That is why even the “true believers” like you are kept at a distance.
Then you say:
“Please dont sit here and tell me when this country is and is not worth fighting for when you say the things you do about the military.”
Nathan? I have said that we owe those who serve that we put them in the line of fire only when absolutely necessary. Is that an attack on the military? Hardly! I’ma FAR greater advocate for you than George bush.
“What is it you said about your son joining?”
I will advise my son against joining the military as it is so badly used. That and this country is NOT worth fighting for if we cannot question our “leaders” under pain of arrest.
Hey Nathan? Come on back home and fight for freedom. Iraq is a lost cause meant to steal our attention from our stolen freedom at home.
One might take the lawsuit claims with a grain of salt were it not for this adminstration’s longstanding history of hostility to peaceful dissent.
Pardon me for not providing multiple examples, but here’s a taste:http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=16099
Somehow I think this guy wouldn’t be suing if he had actually threatened the VP.
When Al Gore was in Wichita, I managed to get close enough to the Secret Service for them tophysically push me back. I wasn’t arrested.
Whoops! “Volunteers.” Okay–I got sloppy–it’s late.
Admin actions tomorrow, if you’re still interested. Goodnight.
Cheney may be an asshole, or he may be evil incarnate. I think the latter. But maybe he’s undergone personality changes following his heart attacks, like mini-strokes in the brain. Don’t recall him being this mean in previous presidencies.
Here you go, about Cheney’s personality changes that old friends have noticed:
http://prairieweather.typepad.com/big_blue_stem/2006/01/cheneys_persona.html
It’s just simply that the man is no longer pysically or mentally fit to be vice president. This is the guy who is one heartbeat away from the “football.”
Interesting point Sean – with strokes on top of his age senility is not far-fetched. Then we have cokehead GW to deal with; feeling like he has to prove Poppy wrong.
I had a friend who was handcuffed at the Stones concert, according to him for no good reason. They let him go after one hour. This is a common procedure in law enforcement. One of their tools ya know.
Bush sucks DickCheney too
XXX,”Hate to say it, but the Secret Service has a serious job to do. Their job is to protect the president and vice-pres.”From cricism? That is a tough job these days!