Since last spring’s protests and the backlash to them, commonsense talk on illegal immigration has been scarce. But Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee (in photo), a potential GOP presidential nominee in 2008, had some smart things to say on the subject this week in a South Carolina appearance. When a person tells him that illegal immigrants are taking jobs from Americans, he asks him to name someone “who cannot get a job because a Mexican illegally here has taken the job they want.” Huckabee goes on: “If that’s the case, if you can get me their name and phone number by 5 this afternoon, I can have them making a bed, plucking a chicken, tarring a roof or picking a tomato by the morning at 8 o’clock.” He’s still waiting for a name. That’s because, as Huckabee argues, most of the jobs that illegal immigrants are doing in the United States are jobs that Americans don’t want.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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85 Comments
Can’t Illegals join the military?
It’s not just an adventure,it’s $198.00 a week!!
Huckabee is absolutely right in my opinion on this. Remember folks I am a Californian in a area that is 45% hispanic.I compare the labor the illegals provide to being human crack. We are addicted to it, especially where I live.Unless you want to pay $10 for that tomoto.And I’m not advocating the border be wide open. I’m saying as part of any serious securing of the southern border we need to address who does the labor the majority of the crossers provide in their abscence.
That’s quite an amazing justification for allowing our border security to continue to be a joke. STFU, Huck.
Todd, you volunteering for head chicken plucker?NO?STFU, Todd.
No illegal immigrant has taken a job from a registered citizen. It’s because it’s the employers who are hiring the illegals who decide that they don’t want Americans to have those jobs.
Months ago there was a huge bust of illegal hiring in the Northeast. Hundreds of illegals were employed in the lumber mills. Those used to be good paying jobs that Americans had, and in other parts of the country Americans still work those jobs.
Meat packing jobs used to be a good paying, unionized job. The companies fired all the workers and replaced them with illegal immigrants at extremely low pay and no benefits. If they get injured on the job they are fired.
Governor Hunkashit (R-asshat) is one of those rich assholes that have no problem with millions of jobs going overseas and millions of good paying jobs being given to illegal immigrants. In his home state there is a company that employed illegals to clean its stores and would lock them inside the building at night. That company was Wal-Mart, who just happens to be a big contributor to Hunkashit’s campaign, along with other businesses that happily use cheap, imported labor at the cost of good paying jobs once held by Americans citizens.
If cheap labor provides for cheaper goods then why does Nike make their shoes in Thailand but still sell them for $100 a pair?
Governor Hunkashit (R-asshat)
DOUG. DING DING DING.You’ve just won by writing todays favorite sarcasm.Tell him what he’s won, Don Pardo!What, a pair of Nike’s?Excellent irony.
“Todd, you volunteering for head chicken plucker?NO?STFU, Todd.”
Oh, Tracy. Your incredible misfires of logic are becoming legendary. Whether an American is willing to do that job or not is not really relevant to the fact that illegal immigration is ILLEGAL. Not to mention that poor border security just might present a danger we’re not prepared for. Try actually addressing a point for a change.
The vast majority of problems we have with illegal immigrants stems from their being illegal. If they were legal, they’d have their papers and be due minimum wage, at least, and have all the other rights and protections of a legal immigrant. Employers and landlords couldn’t blackmail them into cheap labor or prostitution, etc.The main problem with that is that legal immigration is a nightmare of hidden charges, bribes and bureaucratic snail imitations.There is no legitimate reason that legal entry to the US should take more than 90 days or cost more than a few dollars fee. Given the advantages, if we did that, illegal immigration would slow to a manageable trickle, and we would have the ID’s and background checks on all those others who are now completely undocumented. Win-win!
Okay Todd.Sorry for the slam.Bad habit.My opinion is that we should secure the borders first, and then wait for a reasonable administration with the hopes of workable, meaningful legislation.
Oh, and I liked your ‘misfires’ bit.
Rhonda dear?
Can you please let me know how to get a hold of Arkansas Governor Huckabee? Perhaps I can contact him through you.
See, I’d like to tell him and YOU that I would gladly do any of the jobs listed.
Caveat: I WILL NOT do those jobs for a wage that forces me to live in a house with 23 other people doing that job.
Rhonda hun?
On second thought, can you get my name to John McCain? I’m interested in those $40 an hour lettuce picking jobs he spoke of.
Total deportation now!
Good points jed. I think the legislation that Bush and Brownback are working on at least moves in that direction.
Todd’s right, Jed’s right.
So why are we doing nothing?
And, yes, Todd, I’m a liberal. Amazing, isn’t it?
Am I supposed to care what political box you put yourself in?
Ever wonder why companies outsource their manufacturing jobs and then bring back the crap to the US to sell it? It is because Americans are so wrapped up in their consumerism, that they will buy anything that is marketed to them.
It is up to the average American to stop buying all the crap just because somebody calls it the latest thing to have.
I’ve always thought that there should be some mechanism whereby lawyers could do something other than practising law for a period of time , to repay society for the bad things they had done.
If all the illegal aliens where out of the picture, do you suppose there’s enough lawyers to go around and fill those positions on a temporary basis? Say 1 year out of every 3, for example?
If this should happen, I bet reputation of the legal profession would skyrocket out the toilet that it is currenty being housed!
This idea would MOST DEFINATELY pertain to the clowns in congress!
I won’t try and speak to the kind of jobs illegals may taken from you in Kansas, so if any of you have lost jobs to illegals you do have my support.From where I sit, they aren’t taking any jobs I would want nor friends nor my kids when they turn 16.I have a good friend who works in HR with one of the largest farming groups in our area and world. According to him, all there workers are documented (wink wink). Counterfit papers are available on the streets of any major city near the border, in the case I’m speaking of Los Angeles.I haven’t argued border security isn’t an issue or quite frankly a joke. It most certainly is, and I’d support the harshest enforcement of the border available (along with the northern border – otherwise it’s racism pure and simple.) However some kind of guest worker program needs to be a part of the solution.
If cheap labor provides for cheaper goods then why does Nike make their shoes in Thailand but still sell them for $100 a pair?
How about because Nike is paying every HS graduate who can dunk a basketball (i.e. NBA players) $100 million to grace their freakish size feet with the swoosh?Last time I checked MJ and friends haven’t endorsed any table grapes, tomoto’s, etc.
Mr KIA- How did you find/ become involved with this blog from California?
My wife is from Wichita. I mostly have got on the Kansas.com to check on our favorite college program, the K-state Wildcats. But peeked in on some of the blogs and decided to chime in.
I didn’t think you were one of the inmates.
LOL Were there rumors I was a Californian locked up in the Kansas state or a Federal pen?That’s some funny stuff right there.
No, I meant an inmate on this end, in Kansas doodah.
Well, I guess I’m old enough to remember when the construction field used to be considered a profession, and a good-paying one at that. I can certainly attest to the fact that nobody I know wants to go into that type of business anymore, because the cheap labor supply has driven wages down to a point that you may as well work at Wal Mart.
Doug, I think the way you make a play on someone’s name is real neat. Rush Limbaugh does that just like you do!
Many of you are missing the big picture on the issue. We as American created this mess.
Todd, you remember when construction was a good-paying field, right? How much more would you be willing to pay for your house so that the workers could make more money? JR, you said you would do the work many illegals do, but not for their pay. Would you be able to afford the products they do that work with (vegetables, fruits, construction, etc) if they were paid a wage you would work for?
It is not the cheap labor supply that has driven wages down, but rather the desire by consumers for cheap goods. In the past 30 years, consumer shopping has shifted from the local business (like a carpenter or fruit and vegetable farmer) to the business that can give them the lowest price on what they want. YOU are to blame for the influx of illegals because you shop based on price. Stores see that the lower priced items sell more, faster so they demand lower priced items from their suppliers. Suppliers in turn lower prices the only way they can, by lowering wages. Americans generally don’t stand for wage cuts, so illegals come in to fill the open positions.
Try an experiment. Next time you go to the grocery store to buy fresh produce, look for the organic items. You will see they are priced higher than similar non-organics. The organics are mainly grown in the US, so they can meet the certification requirements; whether they are harvested and processed by illegals, who knows. Only buy these higher priced organic items from now on. Imagine a price increase beyond the higher price of organics, if we bring laborer workers up to a decent pay level. If you are able to buy the higher priced organic items when the cheaper non-organics set next to them, post on here and let me know.
Todd, I try to be nice and you don’t even acknowledge it.That’s okay.You don’t have to be rude to RD.
“Am I supposed to care what political box you put yourself in?”
Is that as mean as it sounds?If it is, then why should we care WTF you post?
“Am I supposed to care what political box you put yourself in?”
Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a fat rat’s patootie. But I, with your help, did make my point. Thank you!
KIA – what part of CA are you in?
Something that has been on my mind for a while is the next generation of what are now illegals. Will they be content with doing the jobs their parents did for the same pay? Or will they be looking for something better? If the latter, the job market, as a whole, becomes smaller and smaller.
Now, I don’t know if this is a bad thing. (No, I’m not crazy.) Some time ago, I was listening to a discussion on NPR, where someone was saying that, once the Baby Boomers have retired (whatever that is), there will be an abundance of jobs. I’m not sure I can completely agree with that. It’s fairly difficult for a person over 50 to find a job these days, so those who are not BB’s are already stepping into those positions. It will be interesting to watch to see what happens.
“Todd, you remember when construction was a good-paying field, right? How much more would you be willing to pay for your house so that the workers could make more money?”
Are you seriously going to make the argument that houses are cheaper because of cheaper labor? Sorry, that dog won’t hunt. You’re in over your head.
“Is that as mean as it sounds?If it is, then why should we care WTF you post?”
Is what as mean as it sounds? The fact that I don’t care about his or her non-sequitorial proclamation that he’s a liberal? It isn’t germane to anything, so what’s the reasoning behind throwing it out there? I’m not into political hackery.
Ben – The San Joaquin Valley about 100 miles north of LA.
RD – I can tell you that where I live we are 45% hispanic. 54% of kids in school (high school and younger) are hispanic. I would say only 20% of this hispanic population right now are immigrants, spanish speaking only people.I know a number of second and third generation hispanics (meaning 2nd/3rd generation in America). My best friends wife is 2nd on her Dad’s side and 3rd on her mom.Anyway, we have a ton of hispanics (83% of hispanics where I live are mexican decent) that are lawyers, not a ton of doctors, but plenty of cops, firefighters, sales people, accountants, probabtion officers, you name it.From where I sit, this is a race of people who assimilate. They become a part of the process.Placing the illegal part aside, Hispanics (Mexicans) are the Irish and Italians of 100 years ago.
Since “liberal” isn’t a political party, I don’t know what he’s complaining about.
KIA, thank you for the figures. I would expect people to have higher goals.
Our steps to citizenship through immigration are poor and definitely need changing. One of my daughters is engaged to a half Hispanic young man (legal, as is his mother, etc.), but he’s told us stories of people he has known who have tried to immigrate legally. From them, I have to assume there’s something rotten in the system.
Nobody wants to take the jobs illegals hold because why?
Because they pay so badly because companies hire illegals.
Duh.
If you pay somebody a decent wage, you can find plenty of workers.
Besides, I thought Republicans believed in the “free market.”
It’s not free if illegals are driving down wages and benefits, is it.
What Huckabilly means is “where are the Americans who want to do these dirty monotonous jobs FOR WHAT WE PAY ILLEGALS TO DO THEM?”
Since we pay the illegals crap, the answer is “no where.”
Learn more about Mike Huckabee, the next President of the United States, and his common sense, practical positions on fiscally and socially conservative issues at: http://www.mikehuckabeepresident2008.blogspot.com
Like I said I don’t know what kind of jobs they are taking from you all in your part of the country. This is one area we truly have a different reality. I don’t know what my feeling would be if I lost a construction job, etc. to an illegal alien. For starters I’d probably try and take some kind of legal action against the employer.All I can say is from where I sit my state’s economy is very much dependent on farm labor. I don’t know a single white person crying that an illegal alien took their back breaking job picking grapes, almonds, oranges, tomoto’s, strawberry’s, you name the fruit or nut, in 110 degree heat.
I lived in LA for about a decade. A UCLA fan as a result.
How does Fresno State look this year?
Lies, lies and more lies; the truth is that deprortation will work and will be cost effective!”A recent study questions whether deporting illegal immigrants would be worth the cost. Deporting the Undocumented: A Cost Assessment, [PDF] was published by the Center for American Progress, a liberal think-tank. It’s touted as the first-ever estimate of costs associated with apprehending, detaining, prosecuting, and removing immigrants who have entered the United States illegally or overstayed their visas.The cost of mass deportation according to CAP: $206 billion over five years ($41.2 billion per year). This study assumes that about 10 million illegals would be subject to deportation and 2 million would leave voluntarily if a mass deportation program was announced.But $206 billion is an absurdly large figure. The largest chunk of it is apprehension costs ($141 billion). In arriving at this figure, researchers blithely assumed that the historical, abysmally low, deportee apprehension rates would continue under a mass deportation regime:“We extrapolate from the available evidence to provide an estimate of the per-apprehension cost. In 1999, 240 agents apprehended 2,849 unauthorized workers, and, as noted above, 90 agents apprehended 445 unauthorized workers in 2003. Assuming a typical annual cost of $175,714 per agent, and after summing the number of apprehensions (3,294) and agents (330), the average apprehension cost comes to $17,603. Assuming a 20% voluntary departure rate, the total costs for apprehending 8,000,000 undocumented immigrants would be $141 billion over five years.”Ten deportees per agent per year is the apprehension rate the researchers used in estimating the cost of apprehending 8 million illegals. Ten per year! You can find more illegals in front of Wal-Mart in a single afternoon.But even if $206 billion was a reasonable cost estimate, mass deportation would be well worth it. Just consider the economic burden illegal aliens impose on the rest of us:Federal Deficit: The average illegal alien household receives $2,736 more Federal services than it pays in taxes. (See Table 1.) Since there are at least 3.8 million such households, the total drain on the federal budget is about $10.3 billion. [Steven A. Camarota, “The High Cost of Cheap Labor: Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget,” CIS, August 2004]These are conservative estimates. CIS assumes, for example, an illegal immigrant population of 8.7 million (the official Census Bureau figure) versus 10 million assumed in the deportation study. VDARE.COM’s D.A. King, later supported by other researchers [PDF] puts the illegal alien population as high as 20 million.State and local deficits: The comprehensive immigration study sponsored by the National Research Council [The New Americans: Economic, Demographic, and Fiscal Effects of Immigration, 1997] examined the fiscal impact of immigrants in California. While it did not explicitly compare illegal and legal immigrants, the NRC research staff found that the average immigrant household generated $3,823 more state and local spending than it paid in state and local taxes. (See Table 2.) Using California as a proxy for the national average, I estimate that illegal aliens increase state and local deficits by about $15 billion annually.American worker displacement effects: There are roughly 7 million illegal immigrants working in the U.S. – about 3.5 percent of the labor force. Each 1 percent rise in U.S. labor force due to immigration reduces native-born wages by about 0.35 percent, according to George Borjas. [PDF] It follows, then, that illegal immigrant workers reduce wages of U.S.-born workers by approximately 1.2 percent (3.5X0.35).If politicians don’t care, they should. Assuming native-born federal, state, and local tax payments fall by the same percent, native workers cough up $26 billion less taxes due to unfair competition from illegal alien workers.Total fiscal benefits of deportation are thus estimated at $51 billion per year—$25 billion in deficit reduction and $26 billion in foregone displacement losses.At this rate, mass deportation would pay for itself in about four years.Plus, of course, we’d get America back.”http://www.vdare.com/rubenstein/060126_nd.htmV.L.R.B!!!—–
Wow, we trashed him so many frickin’ times that we made Google and one of his asshat campaign bitches came over here to post.
BSR?
Bored Shill Retard.
The clock is ticking and the day is coming when these animals will be given the choice of the suitcase or the coffin. Woe unto the cheap labor loving, enron-repukes and the guilt ridden, self hating leftist multiracialist when the festivities kick off. There will be a race war in America, within five years, guaranteed!
By Frosty WooldridgeAugust 14, 2006NewsWithViews.com
Iowa’s United States Congressman Steve King told a crowd in Des Moines in June, “Illegal aliens cause the death of 25 American citizens every day…13 by drunken driving and 12 by stabbings or gun fire.”
That daily figure adds up to 9,125 deaths annually caused primarily by illegal alien Mexicans residing in America. Mike Rosen, radio talk show host in Denver, said it wasn’t significant when you consider our country of 300 million. A listener corrected him, “It’s not significant unless it’s your father or family member who gets killed.”
More sobering, almost eight times as many deaths of civilian Americans have occurred in our own country in three years than deaths to our soldiers in the Iraq and Afghanistan war zones. It’s safer in a war zone than on our own highways and in our own homes in America. At the same time, South Koreans are safer in their own homes with 37,000 American troops guarding their border from North Korea for the past 40 years–with our troops and tax dollars–than we are in our own country.
Why do Americans suffer this kind of carnage in their own nation? Who is to blame? Why would any American knowingly do this to his own country, to his own neighbors?
What can be done to stop it?
First, lay the blame directly on the shoulders of President George Walker Bush. Any man worth his salt after 9/11 would have sent troops to the borders and closed them to illegal entry on 9/12. For crying out loud! Three thousand innocent people died that day—specifically because of non immigration enforcement! Instead, for six years, Bush has done nothing to stem the flood of illegal aliens crossing our borders illegally. On the contrary, he’s encouraged terrorists to cross because they know Bush won’t stop them, drug smugglers because they know they can, and illegal aliens from all over the world. Peter Gadiel, who lost his son on 9/11, rails at Bush and Congress for not following through on their Constitutional duties. Another 3,000 relatives of all who died on 9/11 wonder why this president won’t secure America’s borders. Makes you wonder who will remain silent after the next “9/11 type” train bombing, subway bombing or other atrocity hits America. Those Muslims sit patiently inside our borders for their next chance.
If bank robbers know the police can’t or won’t arrest them, they tell their friends. Voila, more bank robbers! If a child molester knows he won’t be stopped, he preys on more victims. If an embezzler thinks he won’t get caught and doesn’t, he keeps at it. So it is with illegal aliens crossing our borders. They tell their friends and millions more pour into our country.
Second, lay the blame on CEOs running big companies like Tyson Chicken, Wal-Mart, Hormel for starters. Chicago, New York, Los Angeles and Las Vegas restaurants thrive on hiring illegals. You can include all your favorite fast food restaurants with happy meals to big whoppers as culprits in hiring illegals. How do we know? Over 20,000 million illegal aliens don’t sit around twiddling their thumbs.
In the past six years, Bush’s administration prosecuted less than 10 companies for hiring illegals. Thus, with no enforcement, more people break the law.
Third, lay the blame on small companies in hundreds of cities across America. Places like Denver and Boulder, Colorado offer sanctuary policies for illegals. Local companies hire illegals in front of Americans. Illegals work for cities, in fact, last week, while I stood at the capitol in Raleigh, North Carolina, illegal aliens worked for the city on the city streets.
Local contractors hire illegals for construction, painting, dry wall, landscaping, pool cleaning, dish washing, motel cleaning, car washes and everything else you can imagine.
Fourth, lay the blame on thousands of American citizens who hire illegals for gardening, house work and roofing. An added side note might interest you. It may be a rumor, but most Texans know that George Bush hired an illegal nanny while governor of Texas. Later, he pulled strings to make sure she was granted U.S. citizenship and she’s still in the White House with him today.
Fifth, lay the blame on the majority of Americans who say nothing, do nothing and don’t even bother to vote. A whopping 50 percent of eligible voters never vote in national elections. An astounding 80 to 90 percent of Americans don’t vote in local elections. Or, if they do vote, they vote the same senators and congressmen into office again and again.
In the meantime, 630,000 convicted illegal alien felons or a full 29 percent of our prisons are loaded with criminal illegals. They cost us $1.6 billion annually to keep them in three squares a day, exercise rooms, food and TV.
But what have they cost us in collateral damage? How many deaths of loved ones? How many rapes of our wives and daughters? How many drunken driving accidents that dismembered or maimed our family members? How much misery that should never have happened if Bush or Congress had done their jobs? How much misery would have been prevented if those who hire illegal aliens had abided by our laws? How many American drug addicts have the MS-13 gangs created or killed as they spread their poisons across our land unimpeded? What about the next 9/11 that will occur because of our open borders?
What astounds me stems from the fact that our president, vice president and entire society sits, watches, waits and says nothing at this ongoing violence against our citizens.
© 2006 Frosty Wooldridge – All Rights Reservedhttp://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty179.htm
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!
BSR,
Go away coconut, huckabee is just another zionist errand-boy and a filthy traitor, begone!!
V.L.R.B!!
I’m actually in Bakersfield, but the Dogs have lost a couple close games to Pac10 teams. They look OK, probably not as good as in recent years. They have their annual shock the nation game at LSU on October 21, that should be interesting.
Ian – Does this take into account anywhere who will get California’s annual $32 billion in agriculture to market?
And again, I don’t want to come off completely as pro illegal. My families life was turned upside down by one at onetime.What are your thoughts on a guest worker program of somesort?
I know bakersfield – hot and dusty.
Have family up in Hollister and friends still in LA. Get out there from time to time but try to stay close to the coast.
The REAL California is WEST of the San Andreas Fault! ;^)
KIA,
There should be no citizenship, no huest-worker programs, no citizenship for their offspring and no access to taxpayer funded services or healthcare. Nothing for these “people”, except TOTAL DEPORTATION!
There was a study done an it showed that farm lablorers wages could double or triple and it would have an insignificant impact on the price of produce. It was on Lou Dobbs a while back and I will try to tack down the specifics.
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!viva La Raza Blanco!!Deportacion Total!!
Mr.Kia isn’t there a gang problem in L.A.? I also heard that California spends six times as much money on their prison system as opposed to the schools.
Also just to be fair you can’t emigrate to Mexico without an outside income of 24K. You cannot legally own property in Mexico if you are not a Native. Mexico treats their illegal aliens very poorly.
Our social systems are starting to strain alittle. Would be nice if we could take care of the world but there is a limit to our resources.
Well at least the California ya’ll see in movies and TV. It is nice in the summer to be able to drive 90 minutes when it is 110 at home and have it be 70.And the valley is basically glorified desert. The only way we can grow all this stuff is because of irrigation, which is from the damming of and re-routing of rivers and streams out of the sierra’s. Thanks Edmund G. Brown (truly). Try to imagine getting a project done like the California Aquaduct system today. Not gonna happen. Then we wouldn’t need all the illegals.
My concern there KIA is that the soils are salinating over time. I’m not sure how long that irrigation can be sustained. Oh well, a topic for another thread sometime. Take care – g’night …
You know what if you guys can convince the farm companies that they can get the workers they need to harvest for even $20 an hour, more power to you. I guess I’m coming off very pro illegal here. That really isn’t my stance. However I think the illegal labor in my area is like human crack. We are addicted to it. I’m all for solutions on how we get off it. But most of it is in the farms.
On the street gang problem, that is as much african american as anything.
FYI -297 per 100,000 in California prisons are foreign born (this is not all illegal or hispanic)(this is well under 1%).
Also on CA prisons -African Americans males are 7 times more likely than whites and 4 1/2 times more likely than hispanics to be imprisoned.State wide California is 63% white, 32% Hispanic and 7% african american.
Actually once the WTO finally forces all countries to stop ALL farm program subsidies they wont be needed at all. There wont be any farming or produce grown in the US period. If they removed the wheat subsidy the price of wheat would be about 50 cents a bushel and there would not be any here.
Just read a paper on farm labor and they changed the price of labor to your hypothetical 20.00 per hour and it raised the price of a head of lettuce by about 10 cents. So the price of labor is a very small part. Its mostly tranportation et al. The price of a loaf of bread is the same. The plastic bag costs more than the cost of the wheat.
But, immigration or no, Huckabees a twit and always has been.
Darn
I was catching up and just waiting to blow Brians post to pieces. I see that has already been done.
A nation importing millions of low skill workers while simultaneously exporting millions of low, medium, and high skill jobs is a nation that WILL NOT survive.
There are 2 reasons at the heart of why Republicans allow and are not about to interfere with illegal immigration.
The first is greed. Republicans want their corporate sponsors happy. Those corporate sponsors want that cheap labor. It has the side benefit of helping them finish off and bury organized labor.
The second reason is self preservation. If the millions of Mexicans coming here were forced to return home, they would eventually DEMAND that their government change. Mexico’s current feudal/fascist government is ripe for a populist revolution. The end result would likely be a socialist nation. The general result when a wealth elite oppresses and exploits their population for too long. Republicans do not want a socialist nation right next door.
Odd thing is? They are so obsessed with greed and filled with fear that they do not see the likely end result: a socialist revolution in the United States.
Todd, you misunderstood my question about how much more would you be willing to pay on your house. I did not say cheap labor causes cheap house prices. My implication was that if the current price of labor rose, the cost of houses would also rise.
Regarding your “in over your head” statement, if you presented a logically accurate rebuttal to my comments rather than attacking me or other posters it would enhance the value people put in your statements.
JR – I seem to have missed where my post had been “blown to pieces.” No one has responded directly to my statements concerning how our “low price” consumer culture is what drives low wages. Would you care to respond to that?
Don’t even tell me that these are jobs that Americans won’t do, because they DO do them, but in the past they were paid better for it. And yes, my mother WAS a chicken plucker at one time, till the company lowered the wages by trucking in all the illegals. And my grandparents were farmers and WE did the farming.
We’ve survived without illegal labor for our food before.
Not without further understanding your agenda.
You come across as in favor of illegal immigration. I’d like to know why.
I’ll say straight off that your arguement is weak. If we are so dependent on illegal labor now, why didn’t a head of lettuce cost $9 40 years ago before the immigrant problem?
Why wasn’t a hamburger $12 30 years ago when the meat packing houses were American union workers?
I can go on. Others already have. Why do you want them here? What is your stake in it?
First, I am not in favor of illegal immigration and have no stake in continuing it. I feel that there are many problems with people sneaking into a country to work.
I do however, understand why they come. Whether we like it or not, there are jobs open for them here. They can make more doing those jobs here than they can doing the jobs available to them in their own country. If I could make several times what I do now (not several thousand more, but 3, 4, or 5 times what I make now) by sneaking into Canada and working and I knew there would be many jobs waiting for me when I got there, I would do it to. I would be surprised if many reading this would not do otherwise.
My main problem with most of the arguements against illegal immigration is that they do not aknowledge or attempt to solve the problems that lead to illegals coming in the first place. Any strategy of deportation, fining employers, taking away the rights of illegals, or most of the other things in this blog is only a band-aid on the problem. The demand for people willing to work for those low wages and the people willing to satisfy that demand will still be there.
I cannot in good conscience support anti-illegal immigration measures that target people that want to better their lives, when there is no attempt made to solve the problems our society has caused that drew those people here in the first place.
In your families case and mine Political Mom (my grandfather’s parents were farm laborers here and he worked as a small boy in the fields which wouldn’t be allowed anymore) is that our families bettered themselves. Our parents/grandparents/ancestors worked hard to create a better life for future generations (you and me). And did. That’s why no one but immigrant status types will do this kind of work. Costs of living have not kept up with minimum wage, but it’s always been minimum wage work.The type of work I am talking about specifically is farm labor (anyone read the grapes of wrath – that is basically set where I live today). The people who do this work are always here (in some cases California, others the United States) it’s always been in an effort for a better life.That’s what the majority of illegals are here for.I’m coming off so soft here on illegal immigration and it’s really not my intent. You paint a nice picture but it really sounds like Little House on the Prairie to me. That’s not with this country is anymore, for better or worse.
I have no agenda. I am a problem solver and a realist. I am also compassionate about all people regardless of where they come from or why.
I know there are millions of homeless, poor, and working poor people here in the good ‘ol USA. I think the best solution to the illegal immigration problem would be to first ensure that all Americans are working and making wages they can live on.
However, I know that consumerism and capitalism as they exist today are the fundamental reasons that illegal immigration exists. I also know that quite a few people are unwilling to work hard for a living and feel that they are entitled to earning a living because they are here in America.
Mr. Suaste, 27, his brothers, Alejandro, 30, and Eusebio, 25, and more than a dozen other men from Guanajuato are heading to Quebec – not with the help of ruthless, pricey smugglers known as coyotes, but on airplanes with assigned seating and iced drinks. The men will join more than 13,000 other Mexicans in Canada as part of a guest worker program for agricultural workers.In Canada, workers are provided with housing and transportation. Employers pay for the round trip plane ticket and then deduct some of those costs from the employee’s paycheck. The workers return home at the end of the harvest season with a letter from their employer either inviting them to return next season or not. Officials say 75 percent to 80 percent of workers do return.
How about this type of guest worker program?
This is not about jobs that Americans don’t want to do, this is about LABOR ABUSE.If slavery was legal again, you can bet that some employers would be using it to the maximum that they can get from it.Shame on those who think otherwise about it.
Westside of Wichita + hail damage this spring = lots of Mexican laborers on roofs this summer. These guys worked their butts off during 100+ heat. My district’s heavily GOP but I didn’t hear any complaints or protests that roofing companies were utilizing illegals (in all probability). Nor did I see arrests. We’re all pragmatists- we like the cheaper prices.
Oh Yeah! Let’s not forget about the CEOs that are making way too much money and not wanting to pay out good wages to the little people below them.Wage increase today does not exceed the wage increase of 30 years past in comparing to cost of living and the wage increase of the CEOs.
“Where are Americans who want to do illegals’ jobs?”
They’re in jail, vato.
What’s the catch on the deal right angle? It sounds too good to be true.I would add something about companies having X to X date to hire naturalized citizens first just incase someone decides they want off the welfare.And I’d offer the workers some kind of fast track to citzenship after a certain number of years of doing this too.The plan sounds too simple. But our Government is too bogged down with partisan politics anymore to actually get some kind of revolutionary programs together.
You know, Brian, I hear about all these people who don’t try because they feel “entitled.”
Have you really actually met one?
Because I haven’t . . .
i know of illigals that buy papers from others over in other states of people that hav passed away. and take on there names and come over here and work and get all those benifits and more money plus their wemon are on welfare. so they are getting there cake and eating it to.but when we who were born here are need of help we cant get it along with the job. we are also told to learn spanish so we can tlk to them why dont they learn english.they want to live here do it the right way.
jlo,You could stand to learn a bit more English yourself, and also learn not to take every urban myth at face value.
Interesting comments by the Arkansas Governor. Evidently, the Governor hasn’t ever lived on a small farm or lived in a small town where all those jobs mentioned are done by American Citizens. The problem now, is that employers deliberately keep wages low, more or less inviting the illegal worker. As the huge corporate farmers have grown because of their low wage labor from Mexico, they have forced the ‘truck patch’ farmers out of business. The problem of immigration from Mexico wasn’t started by the Mexicans, it was started by the greed of those who want to keep all the gold for themselves. Do the math, 1000 acre farm that hires 100 illegal immigrant workers paying them minimal wages; or ten 100 acres farms ran by private individuals who want to earn an honest living and make an honest wage. The small farmer is all but killed off by the greed of the corporate farmer. My first job paid $0.75/hour working at a newspaper office. When I went into the military, my take home pay as an enlisted man made me eligible for food stamps (about $279.00 take home/month.) Governor of Arkanas, do you really expect people to have a car to drive out 20 or more miles to work at a tomato farm that is going to pay them $3.00 an hour. Can you live on that wage? Didn’t think so…get a brain.
“Governor of Arkanas, do you really expect people to have a car to drive out 20 or more miles to work at a tomato farm that is going to pay them $3.00 an hour. Can you live on that wage? Didn’t think so…get a brain.”
Ummmmm, JM.I think that’s exactly what the gov said.
“Huckabee argues, most of the jobs that illegal immigrants are doing in the United States are jobs that Americans don’t want.”
Exactly, you and the gov agree thatAmericans do not want the three dollar an hour job.Get a brain before you say get a brain.
Hi Brian, LTNS. Good to see you here again!!
U know, my mom always reminds me that my ancestors were immigrants and that we should be nice to these people, they are just looking for a new life…
Than I remind her. My Ancestors came here, raped, killed, pillaged and stole the land we live on today…
That usually gets her and anyone else who uses this, They are humans, they deserve a better life.
They do, but let them do it legally. If i have to obey the speed limit than they should obey the immigration laws.
If there are jobs that American’s wont do and Mexicans will do, than fine, let the companies take a buss down to the border, pick a few dozen up, DOCUMENT them, HOUSE them, TEACH them, keep track of them and let them come to work in their factories on temporary work permits. If they work successfully for X # of years and THEY LEARN TO READ AND WRITE ENGLISH, let them stay.
I’m not begrudging them the right to make their lives better, just do it within the confines of the law.
Now, i’m not even going to get started on the governments problems…
Thing is Tony, the mechanism to document them is broken. That is where I tend to agree with Bush and brownback on their “amnesty” proposals.
I’m just asking this question.
Does Huckabee employ any illegal immigrants as a nanny, housekeeper, gardener, etc?
Does he not know there are American companies that offer their services in these areas?
I’m just wondering if he practices what he preaches.
Tony, I am missing what you mean by “Than I remind her. My Ancestors came here, raped, killed, pillaged and stole the land we live on today…
That usually gets her and anyone else who uses this, They are humans, they deserve a better life.”Do you mean that because your ancestors emigrated to America and mistreated the original inhabitants then took the land from them that immigrants should not be able to come to America today without doing it legally? I do not see how the two are related. Could you explain more about your analogy?Thanks
Tony,I listened to Pat Buchanan the other night, ranting about all the troubles the Hispanics have caused. It occurred to me about halfway through his polemic that each and every point he made about Hispanics was made about his Irish ancestors about 150 years ago. Too bad we didn’t have strict immigration laws back then!
CapnAmerica:I have met them. Look inside your local union. Not all union members are like that. However, significant numbers do fit the description of feeling entitled without working hard. These people expect to make $70+ thousand doing assembly work, and every year squeeze and threaten to get more and more.
Jed,That is what cracks me up about the anti-illegal immigrant activists and blow-hards.
The same arguements they are making were made about their ancestors. It is kind of sad though, since they just do not see it or understand the similarity.
Really, the only people in America that should have the right to complain about immigration are the Native Americans. And even they emigrated here.
Brian?
Jed?
How many is enough?
Why just Mexicans? Let’s let ANYONE who wants to come on over here and displace American workers do so?
There are sensible limits to compassion.
As long as the employer worker relationship is as heavily weighted to the employer as it is now, we do not have room for anymore people.
JR, I am still looking forward to your ideas on how we can lower the demand for low-wage workers.
That’s very simple Brian.
Close the border. Assess very heavy fines on those that hire the illegals that stay.
Close the ports. That or assess heavy tarriffs on imported goods. The idea should be that if it aint made here it aint sold here.
Do that and the employers can “demand” cheap labor all they like. “Demand” is irellevant if there is no supply.
I just love it when guilt-ridden, self-hating white leftist coconuts side with greedy capitalists to excuse the wetback invasion. :)
Andrew Sum:
Between 2000 and 2005, 4.1 million immigrant workers arrived from abroad, accounting for 86 percent of the net increase in the total number of employed persons (16 and older), the highest share ever recorded in the United States.
Of the 4.1 million new immigrant workers, between 1.4 and 2.7 million are estimated to be illegal immigrants. This means that illegal immigrants accounted for up to 56 percent of the net increase in civilian employment in the United States over the past five years.
Between 2000 and 2005, the number of young (16 to 34) native-born men who were employed declined by 1.7 million; at the same time, the number of new male immigrant workers increased by 1.9 million.
Multivariate statistical analyses show that the probability of teens and young adults (20-24) being employed was negatively affected by the number of new immigrant workers (legal and illegal) in their state.
The negative impacts tended to be larger for younger workers, for in-school youth compared to out-of-school youth, and for native-born black and Hispanic males compared to their white counterparts.
It appears that employers are substituting new immigrant workers for young native-born workers. The estimated sizes of these displacement effects were frequently quite large.
The increased hiring of new immigrant workers also has been accompanied by important changes in the structure of labor markets and employer-employee relationships. Fewer new workers, especially private-sector wage and salary workers, are ending up on the formal payrolls of employers, where they would be covered by unemployment insurance, health insurance, and worker protections.
How much does illegal immigration save in labor costs?
Bad news for American students, workers – massive H-1b Increases rise from dead in “SKIL Bill”http://moderntribalist.blogspot.com/
V.L.R.B!!
JR, your idea is essentially what the Reagan administration tried to do with drugs. Jail or punish users (deport illegals) and create stronger punishments for dealers (heavy fines on companies hiring illegals). Obviously, that approach did not work for drugs and it will not work for immigration. In almost any problem, unless the root cause is addressed, the problem will always exist.
Do you know how hard it would be and how much money would be wasted trying to keep every illegal out of the country and patrolling every employer to ensure that they do not hire illegals? You may not mind the government wasting your tax dollars, but I think there are much better ways to spend the taxes that you and I pay.
Your idea to stop imports of goods is simply ridiculous. Do you understand the ramifications of that? The problems that would be caused by doing something like make immigration seem insignificant.
Translation of Ian’s post:Illegal immigrants are taking jobs that high schoolers and American minority males would have.
What kind of jobs are those predominately? Lawn work, manual agricultural labor, restaurant work, cleaning and janitoral services. Very few illegals get skilled-labor jobs and fewer still get non-manual jobs. How many engineers at Boeing or Cessna are illegal immigrants? How many people in Wichita making over $40,000 do you think are illegals (unless they are working 2 or 3 jobs)?
Speaking strictly from a work productivity standpoint, I really have no problem with illegals taking jobs from high schoolers and minorities. Overall, the immigrants value those jobs much more and work harder at them.
The overall economic impact of illegals is minimal, despite the statistics you cited. The unemployment rate, which shows the number of people that want work but are unable to find it, is better than it was before the increase in illegal immigrants. Further more, those type of jobs should not necessarily be protected and reserved for Americans. Wouldn’t you rather we educate and train those high schoolers and American minority males to do better jobs? I don’t want to tell my kid that I kicked out a illegal so they could always have job security slaughering cows at IBP. Do you want the people whom the illegals are “taking” jobs from to aspire to have better jobs than that anyway?
Governor Hunkashit (R-asshat) is one of those rich assholes that have no problem with millions of jobs going overseas and millions of good paying jobs being given to illegal immigrants. In his home state there is a company that employed illegals to clean its stores and would lock them inside the building at night. That company was Wal-Mart, who just happens to be a big contributor to Hunkashit’s campaign, along with other businesses that happily use cheap, imported labor at the cost of good paying jobs once held by Americans citizens.
I was completely blown away by this post. This is the most relevant post in this entire thread. Good job Doug! That’s a first by the way.
One of the posters was concerned that housing prices would skyrocket if illegal construction workers were deported. The opposite is the case, immigration in general pushes up housing costs by increasing demand. Just look at California. This may be good for people that bought their house 30 years ago, and for wealthy developers, but it
Gster wrote that construction used to be considered a profession — I myself used to work construction labor. Construction was at that time almost all US born people, even in California. It was a great job for a guy who wasn’t ‘book learning’ smart but was good with his hands. Unfortunately, those American guys these day are working for commissions at Circuit City (as an exxample) rather than having a productive, well paid, career.
Ian Santiago wrote that enforcing immigration law would be waste of money. However, in California we are wasting literally billions ‘educating’ the children of illegals (notoriously poor scorers on standardized tests). There is no doubt that deporting illegals and their offspring would have a positive fiscal impact in California. I leave aside the other benefits (less traffic, less crime etc.)