Archbishop Joseph Naumann (in photo) of the Archdiocese of Kansas City in Kansas wrote a commentary criticizing Gov. Kathleen Sebelius’ veto last session of a bill that would have imposed more reporting requirements on late-term abortions. His complaint was mostly about Sebelius’ veto message, in which she wrote: “My Catholic faith teaches me that life is sacred. Personally, I believe abortion is wrong.” Naumann said that Sebelius has consistently supported abortion rights, which the Catholic Church opposes.
“In my responsibilities as archbishop, I have an obligation to make certain that Catholics understand clearly the doctrinal and moral teachings of the church,” he wrote. And he urged “all Kansas Catholics to pray for Gov. Sebelius that she might reconsider her long held position supporting legalized abortion.”
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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Kansas Meadowlurk, provides a pretty comprehensive entry on this subject. My comments to his are awaiting approval — I have a different take than he does:
http://www.kansasmeadowlark.com/2006/07-03/index.htm
Don’t forget the Kline/Morrison debates tonight. The New Kansas: where competence will trump extreme ideology.
The Archbishop should really bone up on his history instead of protecting the clerics who bone young boys.
It’s called “The Thirty Years” War, one of the most cruel intercine bloodletting Europe had ever seen.
Hey, Christo-fascist, cram it.
Why an intelligent woman like Sebelius would stay in a “church” that blows this kind of crap in her face, I don’t know.
There are plenty of good churches out there that don’t have to answer to the patriarchs in Rome.
Funny, the Catholic church supports privacy rights when it comes to molesting children and hiding pedophiles. I guess they just don’t like Constitiutional freedoms for women.
Didn’t John Kerry get threatened with ex-communication? Sebelius may end up having to decide whether she wants to take the sacraments of the Catholic Church or continue to support on demand abortion, the sacrament of the Democratic party.
I think it was last year, Sebelius was turned away from the Catholic High School in Ohio where she attended. (Because of her votes on abortion). I think the act actually made the church and school look bad, instead of Sebelius.
When Phill Kline tries to get Tiller’s records it smacks of taxpayer funded political pay-backs. Morrison is a Catholic also and says that he will stop the assault on abortion providers that started under Kline.
Abortion is an unpleasant subject to say the least, but I am wondering if it is the sure-fire wedge issue that Republicans seem to count on it being.
Don’t forget the Kline/Morrison debate tonight at the Hughes MetroPlex.
Separation of church and state. Kathleen Sebelius is the public servant for all Kansans, and definitely she’s not there to promote Catholicism.
Via St. Christie wanted to buy our small town, county ran hospital.They were offering BIG bucks just to get their foot in the door.On condition:NO BIRTH CONTROL OF ANY KIND.
Our county and our good people promptly told them what to do with their big bucks.
Roo Haa
Right on…
Seperation of Church and state…
Hell if Sebelius is Catholic, than dam, this is the first i guess i have heard of it…
And the Catholic Church wonders why it’s losing members. Hmmmmm
The Catholic church supports child rapist and fondlers. The church and its sheep (followers) have known for years that it went on but remained quiet.Now they are accusing someone of not following some law some old dirty men came up with in the back room over in “Wap-ville”? Well the Pope and the Archbishop can stuff it
I think the Catholic Church has enough skeleton in their own backyards to keep them busy.
This is just intimidation from the Archbishop to show the other “sheep” they had better tow the line or see what will happen to them.
Shame on him.
Everyone knows that if you make something illegal, it won’t end it, but it will allow you to pretend it’s not happening, so that you can feel better. The Catholic church is working on the wrong end of the problem, and so is everyone else who seeks to make abortion illegal. But if I were a Catholic these days, I’d want to feel better. And if I concentrate on worrying about everyone else’s behavior, I won’t have time to worry about my own, and that’s SO much easier!
Just got back from the Morrison debate with that other guy.
The other guy–the one who never actually tried a case and keeps letting his license lapse and hired his drunken nephew–actually used the phrase, “the SO-CALLED separation of church and state.”
Hoo, boy, we gotta get rid of that ass . . .
I was at the Morrison/other guy debate. Morrison soooooooooooo kicked his ass. the other guy couldn’t answer a question directed to him.
I may have to run for this hills after posting this, but…
Exodus 21:22.
SO CALLED separation of church and state?
Has anyone ever shown Phill Kline the first amendment? Has Phill ever read Thomas Jefferson in his law classes?
It’s pretty scary to have anyone in government that doesn’t believe in the constitution. It is un-American. Don’t these people know that separation of Church and State is what gave them the right to practice their own evangelicalism?
Christofascists…I think that’s a great term. Very fitting.
There is a good reason we don’t live by the old testament…do you really want to do that now?
This topic is the reason I left the Catholic church. They don’t care about anyone outside the woman’s womb. They don’t say a word about the adoption issue but raise hell about abortion. They allow rapists and pedophiles to roam free in their church and then cry if anybody does anything to stop it. If I was Sebelius I would leave the Catholic church and go to a religion that is actually friendly to women.
Is it true that Catholics force those who had abortions to go protest as pentance?
(Did I spell that right?)
I just wonder why this archbishop is making a point now. If he is truly worried about Sebellius and her soul, then talk to her in person and private. He should not make her religious life part of a public discussion.
“It is never permissible for a Catholic to support the legalization of the killing of innocent lives by abortion, much less to lead the fight for legal abortion.”
This is why Kennedy’s Catholicism in 1960 was an issue. However, this was also the time of Pope John the 23rd, who was trying to move the church away from its history of rigid authoritarianism, and Kennedy himself ably addressed the issue of where his loyalties were. Here, the Archbishop is essentially saying here that Catholocism is like a political party. And the Vatican is still very much a political institution (arguably the oldest such institution still running). Here, the Archbishop is essentially saying that a person in office who is also a Catholic has to tow a line consistent with Catholic doctrine. That is simply an unacceptable position in this country.
Ethically, the issue of abortion is aborting an embryo/fetus verses coercing every woman who discovers she is pregnant to carry the pregnancy to term. I think it is more than possible for people to identify both with the fetus and the woman, and therefore to find both alternatives bothersome. Most people find the second alternative more bothersome, however. The church’s (and I will use this word) idiotic teachings on reproduction have caused great harm, particularly in the third world. I can actually respect the “pro-life” position, even though I think a strict “pro-life” position is wrong, but the church has gone well beyond that to pushing methods of birth control and fighting methods of contraception that protect people both from unwanted pregnancy and disease.
While the Catholic Church’s official position has not changed, since the installation of John Paul II, the church has resumed a political aggressiveness both within the congregation and in world affairs to promote conservative positions of the faith. Used to be that one could go to some Catholic churches and see respectful discussions on this topic, and a realization that people of good conscience within the congregation could differ on it. The Archbishop is representative of the movement to the right by the Vatican, not only in terms of doctrine but also in terms of the centralized authority of the heirarchy. The most disturbing aspect of this return to political aggressiveness is the willingness of the church to take what authority national governments give them. The church’s willingness to aggressively insert itself into the affairs of Poland is a cautionary example. At some point, some of the American bishops and cardinals are going to have to be confronted on their active politicing, particularly when it comes to specific political races (the idiot from Colorado who as much as told his flock to vote Republican comes to mind). The feds really should consider cracking down on this. If the church wants to crack down on its membership, including those of its membership in office, and especially to tell the members of the church how to vote, then they can damn well give up their tax exempt status.
I remember when Kennedy had to practically swear that the pope wouldn’t dictate policy before he could get elected. Now it seems the church still thinks it can tell our elected officials what to do!
The Catholic Church has every right and obligation to correct something which is contrary to the church teachings.
If the governor is going to claim to be a Catholic and then turn around and go against what the Catholic church believes, then of course the Church leaders are going to say something.
There also seems to be quite a bit confusion on the paramaters of tax exempt status for churches too. I suggest you actually look up what code they are breaking and stop with all your anit-church rhetoric already.
Nathan,It’s the U.S. Constitution that guides this country. There is a reason why we don’t elect the Pope, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, or Fred Phelps to elected positions. We need to separate church and state or fear having secular indentities squashed by people like you.
“There also seems to be quite a bit confusion on the paramaters of tax exempt status for churches too. I suggest you actually look up what code they are breaking and stop with all your anit-church rhetoric already.”
I’m not confused. Churches can of course take positions and even actively engage in politics regarding issues. What they can not do is endorse, oppose, or politic in political races between candidates. The law is specific when it comes to tax exempt status for churches, and I am being that specific as well. Go back and reread my post.
I stand by it.
Tom,
My supporting laws that reflect what I believe doesn’t go against the Constitution any more than when you support laws that you believe in.
Besides, I can make a completely secular argument against abortion anyway.
Aren’t Rudy Guliani and Gov Arnold both Republicans who have prolife positions and who are both Catholic? and Rudy wants to run for President I wonder how is New York brand of conservatism will go over with hard line conservatives?
If Sebelius was truly opposed to abortion as she says, then she would not take abortion money. She obviously is not truly opposed to abortion.
It was Sebelius actions as a legislator that will not allow the killing of Alexa to be considered murder.
How is the muslim nations and communities will rise up collectively to rally against the Pope but these same muslims cannot rise up together on the same day, at the same minute, and denounce the evil fundamentalists that kill in the name of Islam. What the fuck? Popey, keep up the pressure, baby.
Let’s just stop all the bickering about tax exempt status for churches and yank it from all churches.
After all, if Evangelical Christians really are for no separation of church and state - they should have no problem with this.
There is a reason why we cannot allow personhood to be given to a fetus. Because the law would be used to end abortion rights and women would die in far greater numbers.If you worded it properly, the law would pass. But anti-abortion people won’t allow that to happen because then they’d lose their legal arguments.
Sad, I guess to justify killing a human being you have to declare it’s not really human. Worked pretty well for the Nazis, too.
Mary:
#1. Remember, invoking Nazi Germany to prove a point is overreaching and is frowned upon.
#2. In the Jewish faith, a child does not have a soul/is not a ‘human’ until three days after birth.
#3. If your egg gets fertilized but it doesn’t implant, what are the religious implications?
#4. Likewise miscarriage due to externals (trauma, pharmaceutical side effects NOT plan B or RU482)?
“I’m a Roman Catholic/ and I have been since before I was born/ and the one thing they say about Catholics is/ They’ll take you as soon as you’re warm/ you don’t have to be a six footer/you don’t have to have a great brain/you don’t have to have any clothes on you’re/A Catholic the moment Dad came…. because…. ”
I love Monty Python.
For all of you who think abortion is right and perfectly sane, no catholic or any person with an understanding of the process and actions the procedure involves, wont and should’nt support it. Every human is created with a soul. That of which deserves to live a life and have an oppurtunity to go to heaven, just as all of you have been given, and no parent has a right to take that away from it. One of the ten commandment’s says thal shal not kill, so for all of you, jews, christians, or any other religion, none of you have the authority to destroy a human life, whether before or after it is born, it has a soul as soon as it is concieved and not only religion, but any law of nature, does not allow this or any other kind of murder.