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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Sept. 29, 2006 at 12:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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101 Comments
If you’re under a pseudonym, I don’t know who you really are. Anybody can assume the pseudonym name. Stating an opinion!
Nice try! In the trash!
Ok Joe
Um……..
Who are you ranting against?
Dude? I want to join the call for you to seek some professional help.
Quote of the Day:
“…advanced forms of biological warfare that can target specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool.” :)Paul Wolfowitz(zionist)
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Looks like the cops need gun training, 5 or 6 shots fired at 10 feet and one hit. Actually 3 hits, one suspect and 2 houses.
Halliburton Gave $4 Million to Politicians and Received 600 Percent Gain on Contracts Since 2000, HalliburtonWatch Says
Related:> Cheney’s Halliburton stock options rose 3,281% last year, senator finds> In 1 year, Halliburton’s stock doubles as troop deaths double> Halliburton Charged with Selling Nuclear Technologies to Iran> Halliburton’s Lobbyists for Human Trafficking
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/09/28/halliburton-gave-4-million-dollars-to-politicians-received-600-percent-gain-on-contracts/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.informationliberation.com%2F%3Fid%3D16253&frame=true
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15051776/
Book: Troops attacked more than U.S. admitsBob Woodward’s new book alleges deception by Bush administration
WASHINGTON — An explosive new book, now just days away from store shelves, is tonight making news before arriving on the market.
“State of Denial” is the work of journalist Bob Woodward, and according to advance publicity materials released to the media, it alleges that attacks by insurgents in Iraq are worse than Americans have been led to believe.
It’s no secret that the Bush administration has tried to put the best face on the war in Iraq, but Woodward claims it’s a deliberate attempt to deceive the American people about the worsening state of the war.
Woodward claims President Bush and the Pentagon are concealing key intelligence that predicts the violence in Iraq will only get worse in the coming year.
Woodward also tells CBS’ ‘60 Minutes:’ “It’s getting to the point now where there are 800-900 attacks a week. That’s more than 100 a day. That is four an hour attacking our forces.”
Joe,
Anyone can assume any name in this venue.
And I believe you owe me an apology. Not that I think I’ll get one from you.
Talk about trash…
Ben,
How much do you want to bet that Nathan will post that Woodward’s claim is a lie?
heheheheh RD
I bet his reply will also include some version of “this is not a pipe”.
heheheheheh
But of course! Unfortunately, the truth can be covered up only so long!
Gentle people,
We are a capitalist base economy country. We are at war with extreme Islamic Fundementalists. Haliburton is a publicly traded world wide company that is basically providing a service for this country that only it can do. It’s making a profit. So what?
Now you can cherry pick facts, twist them around, pretend the profit is obscene, and fall for all of the left-wing, cut-and-run, hate-America propaganda.
As for me, I’m buying KBR.
Hank
Hank Price’s conscience is clear. Quite a sight, that.
Good luck with that Hank. Hope you kellog brown and root get exactly what you deserve.
We’re doing OK, thanks!
Hank
I blame the stockholders of Halliburton for their part in the bloodshed of the Iraq War. Their greed is evident and I really don’t believe that no one else can do the work that Halliburton is doing there. Come on now people. Get a brain!
With yesterday’s vote to allow rape, torture, infinite imprisonment without a trial and forced confessions did we mark the beginning of a new McCarthyism, or a new Stalinism?
How will Republicans feel if a Democratic President has these new powers to declare anyone an enemy of the state without evidence and imprison them without a trial?
CR,
“I blame the stockholders of Halliburton for their part in the bloodshed of the Iraq War.”
You’re correct to credit Haliburton and their stockholders for their part! It would be almost impossible and a lot more expensive to wage war halfway around the world in a third world country without the services that KBR provides.
“I really don’t believe that no one else can do the work that Halliburton is doing there.”
Oh really? Care to tell us what other company will do the job?
Doug,
“With yesterday’s vote to allow rape, torture, infinite imprisonment without a trial and forced confessions did we mark the beginning of a new McCarthyism, or a new Stalinism?”
It’s a strange and sick little world you live in. Rape? Torture? Infinite imprisonment?!Congress was merely reenstating the power of the country to hold military tribunals again, a power that we have always had until the Supreme Court took it away by making us abide by artical 3 of the Geneva Convention.
“How will Republicans feel if a Democratic President has these new powers to declare anyone an enemy of the state without evidence and imprison them without a trial?”
I was going to respond to this idiotic statement but the way the democrats are self-destructing over the war of terror, we won’t have to worry about a democrat in the White House for a while.
Hank
Hank, perhaps you should read the bill before commenting on it. It says the President has the authority to determine whether or not a method of interrogation is coercive and specifically states methods such as rape as being allowed if the President determines.
America has always had military tribunals, these are now allowed on American citizens that the President declares to be “enemy combatants” essentially whomever he wants to be since enemy combatant is not specific.
It’s amazing that some people work so hard to stay uninformed.
Hank,
The military used to perform all of the functions that Halliburton now fills and YOU KNOW IT!It was greed heads like you who got the buisiness of war privatized and on a for profit basis.
“We are at war.”
No Hank, “we” are not. You and and bush and Halliburton and about 38 % of America is at war. It is just our poor servicemen (acknowledging here that you have a personal stake.) who must carry the burden of your presidents very poor decisions.
Hank Price,
Does it bother you that independent contractor security personnel working for Blackwater and other firms make many thousands of dollars more for working in Iraq than does your son, Nathan, a United States Marine?
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7468.htm
Sorry Hank don’t see alot of difference between your propangda and their’s except no wmds saddamn wasn’t a threat were creating more terrorists than were killing and my dad can beat up your dad
Our government spends millions of dollars, perhaps billions in training our military. Then we can ship that military off so they can train private contractors to do their job at greater expense with less skill. Such is the way the Bush regime has continued to undermine our military and weaken morale.
Doug,
Not only do our troops train them, they PROTECT their sorry asses. I’ve heard our guys in uniform bitch about this.
Shoot fire RD.Look into how much is being spent on “private security firms”!!What are they over there doing?Protecting our troops!And getting paid WAY more than the regulars.
People who profit off war do not have a conscience. Why bother trying to reason with them?
And as far as running the war – yeah Halliburton is doing a heckuva a job Brownie.
That bill yesterday gives the president the power to label anyone INSIDE the US an enemy combatant. That is a very slippery slope. Republicans had better be careful what powers they bestow on George W., it could turn around and bite them in the ass in a few short years.
We will never know what other company could do the same job that Halliburton is doing in Iraq. Bush and Cheney gave the no-bid contrac to Halliburton.
I wonder why?
Well, well,!
Nothing gets a liberal’s panties in a wad faster than a good ol’ American company making a profit. And heaven forbid, making money by supplying wervices to our military in the time of war!
JR,
” The military used to perform all of the functions that Halliburton now fills and YOU KNOW IT!”
No need to shout JR, it just make the fact that you are wrong more obvious. From the time our country began, we have always relied on civilian contractors to provide vital services to our military in the time of war. Always.
KBR in particular has been a vital part of our war effort going back to the second world war. They supplied much of the same services throughout the Viet Nam war. During WWII the fourth estate was on our side and not working to promote the propaganda of the opposition party.
During the Viet Nam war (Johnson’s war) they were tied so close to Texas politics (read President Johnson) that no disparaging words from the press were allowed.
” No Hank, “we” are not. You and and bush and Halliburton and about 38 % of America is at war.”
No JR, the terrorists are at war with all of us. It’s just that only 38% of the American people are willing to admit it and do something about it. So go ahead and bitch whine, stay out of the way, get in the way, whatever. We’ll do our best to protect you and yours. By the way, 38% is a larger percentage of Americans than were for fighting the British for our independence. If 32% of patriots can defeat Britain in the 18th century with half the nation giving them shelter and support we can probably beat a handful of ragheads that think their most effective weopon is to hide behind their women and send their children out with bombs strapped to their butts.
“(acknowledging here that you have a personal stake.)”
Dear JR, every one in America has a personal stake in this war and the way we fight it. You can sit at home and hide under protective umbrella that out president and the brave men and women in the military are providing you with but if you think you can save your son from serving you better start voting for republicans. If the democrats get in power and have their way they will re-institute the draft. Your son is liable to come home with a Canadian war bride if he doesn’t want to serve his country!
CF,
“Does it bother you that independent contractor security personnel working for Blackwater and other firms make many thousands of dollars more for working in Iraq than does your son, Nathan, a United States Marine?”
No, let’s do lunch, I’ll explain in detail the things that bother me.
.morg
Your dad can’t either!
Pretty condescending tone from another Bushie. Another symptom of not caring about anyone else – just that profit.
The sham of “democracy” and “elections” is about to come to an end so all of you can stop your mindless, petty partisan cheerleading.
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
I am not liberal but I am like the majority of Americans in this country that now know we have been duped into this insane crazy war.
Just because you got the Religious Right to back George W. does not mean that God is on our side. Quite the opposite. Bush has started a holy war and the other side is getting stronger every day. That’s not my wish nor my opinion. I see many reports with that conclusion and I have seen many military leaders saying the same thing.
Iraq is a failed mess as we are currently fighting. We do not need to stay the course – but if we changed things, then the profiteers will no longer be making their money.
Is that your real problem with liberals and other Americans questioning this war?
Dear CR,
I don’t mind anyone quesioning this war. I wrote a very nice letter to the Comander-in-Chief recently that pretty much outlined what I thought was wrong with the way his adminstraion was fighting the war on terror. I questioned several of his policies.
What I mind is liberal politicians openly undermining our Comander-in-Chief and our military’s efforts to win this war for no other reason than to keep their sorry butts in office one more election cycle.
The criticism, mindless complaints and caterwalling from the liberals on this BLOG have no effect on me or the war effort. Most of the stuff I read here is to ignorant to even respond to.
I try not to be too obtuse with my comments on this BLOG. Evidently, based on your question, you seem to have a little trouble understanding my points. Should I type slower? Use shorter sentences? Too many big words?
Love ya, you make me look good!
Hank
What I mind is BushBot politicians blindly folowing the President’s failed policies for no other reason than to keep their sorry butts in office one more election cycle.
There it is again – that condescending tone you Bushies always have – and don’t forget the smirk.
That is ultimately what will bring you Republicans down. Rational, moderate people are tolerant but they will not be talked down to sniveling, smirky, full of hot air spigots for the warring party.
Hank – you never did answer my question. Is that the real reason you Republicans don’t like liberals asking too many questions about this war?
Remember, 38% will not win an election. You need moderates to win and the way your party leaders are going, that will be a hard sell.
“O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle — be Thou near them! With them — in spirit — we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it — for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.
(*After a pause.*)”Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High waits!”
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said.
“What I mind is liberal politicians openly undermining our Comander-in-Chief and our military’s efforts to win this war for no other reason than to keep their sorry butts in office one more election cycle.”
On the other hand, I am glad the Republicans are running on the war. I am ever so glad that they are tying that crowning achievement around their own necks.
Iraq: $2 billion a weekAfghanistatn: $370 million a week
The current administration according to Bob Woodward is purposefully down playing the degree of violence in Iraq where U.S. forces are attacked on an average of 4 times per hour.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/29/AR2006092900368.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/29/AR2006092900144.html
Things in Iraq are not getting better. An intelligence report suggests that the violence will be worse in 2007. But, hey, “Let’s stay the course.”
CR—-
Main Entry: con·de·scen·sionPronunciation: “kän-di-’sen(t)-sh&nFunction: nounEtymology: Late Latin condescension-, condescensio, from condescendere1 : voluntary descent from one’s rank or dignity in relations with an inferior2 : patronizing attitude or behavior
RD,I think he was referring to some correspondence he received.
Patronizing attitude or behavior is what I mean by Bushies’ condescending tone.
I’ve noticed that whenever there are facts presented to them about their beloved emperor, they always talk down to the questioner like they were 2 years old.
I’ m betting that the majority of Americans are fed up with this attitude and will be presenting a surprise come election day.
Another good example of GOP morals:
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/09/29/congressman-to-resign-over-sexually-explicit-messages-to-minors/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.abcnews.com%2Ftheblotter%2F2006%2F09%2Ffoley_resigns_o.html&frame=true
Foley Resigns Over Sexually Explicit Messages to MinorsSeptember 29, 2006 3:02 PM
Brian Ross and Maddy Sauer Report:
Rhonda Schwartz contributed to this report.
Saying he was “deeply sorry,” Congressman Mark Foley (R-FL) resigned from Congress today, hours after ABC News questioned him about sexually explicit internet messages with current and former congressional pages under the age of 18.
A spokesman for Foley, the chairman of the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children, said the congressman submitted his resignation in a letter late this afternoon to Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert.
THE BLOTTER RECOMMENDSSixteen-Year-Old Who Worked as Capitol Hill Page Concerned About E-mail Exchange with CongressmanRep. Foley’s Opponent Calls for an Investigation into Allegations of Inappropriate E-mails with Former PageClick Here for More of the Brian Ross PageHours earlier, ABC News had read excerpts of instant messages provided by former male pages who said the congressman, under the AOL Instant Messenger screen name Maf54, made repeated references to sexual organs and acts.
In a statement, Foley said, “I am deeply sorry and I apologize for letting down my family and the people of Florida I have had the privilege to represent.”
The full details will be included in a report tonight on ABC World News with Charles Gibson.
CR – isn’t that how the Emperor’s advisers talked to the kid who noted that he had no clothes.
Ben – exactly.
R.J./mrc,
I’m sure you’re right. Still, Joe owes me an apology. Or maybe he’d like to discuss that?
And, no, it wasn’t correspondence from me. Not my cup of tea. ;)
Obviously, there’s no way we can undermine our “Commander-in-Chief.” He’s said countless times that he doesn’t care what the polls say. He doesn’t even care what his robotic wife and hapless dog say. He is the decider!
We’re winning the War on Terror? Now, how does winning go again? And just how does one war with an ideology? Or maybe you mean like the War on Drugs? Yeah, that’s a real winner.
Hank, I’m sure the prez took every one of your words to heart. In fact, I’ll just bet he’s meeting with everyone at the Pentagon at this very moment, adjusting the operations in Iraq.
Gee, it would be nice to be a dreamer and live in Hank’s world of fantasy.
Dear CR,
In answer to your queation, no.
You really do need to get you head out of your pooper hole. 38% is more than enough to win a national election when less than 38% of eligible voters vote.
The great thing about being republican is that we don’t have to worry about losing the black vote. If we get over 10% we win!
We don’t have to worry about getting the Hispanic vote, If we get 30% we win!
All we have to do is get most of the people that pay attention!
Hank
Dear RD,
You live in the same world! You are just not paying attention!
Come on! How low can you go? You bad mouthed the man’s dog!
Hank
Hank Price,
Would you support military action against Iran, up to and including ivasion with ground troops?
V.L.R.B!!
Hank, hon, I’m paying attention, but I am beginning to worry about you.
As for my use of the word ‘hapless,’ I think it’s fitting, at least from my POV. I consider being the dog of GW kind of ‘unlucky; luckless; unfortunate.’ But then that IS my opinion only. I guess it could be worse. At least George doesn’t pick Barney up by the ears.
Oh, and I live in my own fantasy world, completely without politics.
I just learned I’m the recipient of free tickets to the Stones concert.
Dear Ian,
I would rather nuke ‘em into the stone age.
Hopefully we’ve learned enough from Iraq that we won’t have to invade them.
Hank
Dear RD,
I can probably come up with over a hundred adjectives for GW’s dog and never get close to ‘hapless’.
I think that his dog is pretty lucky!
And you also bad mouthed his wife!
Come on RD, You have more class than that!
Hank
Aw, gee, Hank, cut me a little slack, will ya? I’ve been slaving over a keyboard all day.
And I’m sure you never said a demeaning thing about Chelsea Clinton. Of course not. You wouldn’t do anything like that.
By the way, speaking of war, what is it good for:
Nathan got to call home today. He sounds pretty good and seems to be getting along OK.
It was a welcome surprise to hear his voice, we didn’t know he was going to call.
He’s working pretty long hours each day and time is going fast. He gets Sunday mornings off. Keeps tract of time by marking steak and shrimp night each week.
I appreciate all of the kind words and thoughts you all have for him.
Hank
Okay RD, you got me. I apologize. I have helped spread a Chelsea joke or two. (maybe more)
But it was all in good fun and when I was weak.
Hank
Hank – I know that the Iranians siezed our embassy many decades ago immediately after they overthrew our dictator there. However, other than that they have not aggressed against us in any way. Can’t say the reverse though.
So, what would be the justification for genociding them?
“But it was all in good fun and when I was weak.”
Of course it was, Hank. LOL
So glad you got a call from Nathan! It must be “call day.” My youngest got a long call from her friend stationed in Baghdad.
Next time, tell Nathan we all said HOWDY!
Dear Ben,
I don’t know, maybe because they are completely crazy. Maybe because they are developing nuclear weapons.
Maybe because every weapon they have ever got their hands on they have allowed their lapdogs the Hezbolah terrorists use on an ally of ours, Israel.
And besides, I really don’t consider a pre-emptive strike on their nuclear weapons facilities to prevent them from getting nuclear weapons to use on us ‘genocide’.
It’s more like getting a vacination against measles.
Hank
“I would rather nuke ‘em into the stone age.”
That is a bit more than a “pre-emptive strike on their nuclear weapons facilities”
How do we decide which sovereign states have the right to bear arms and which do not?
Republicans have such a way with words – pooper hole. Was that one your momma taught you?
38% will not win an election – no matter how many votes the Republicans steal.
Remember, genocide is okay when the Americans do it. At least in Hank Price land.
The only difference between the ideal country Hank wants and the unideal countries Hank wants to “nuke into the stone age” is not the political structure, it’s the underlying religious structure. Hank’s perfectly cool with a no-free-speech Christian police state here at home. As long as it isn’t the nation of Islam, he’s cool.
Why kill thousands of civilian when you have the capacity to kill millions, right Hank. All we really have to do is decide which countries have the right to exist. Sounds kind of Palistinian doesn’t it.
I remember when I called home from Nam, it was relayed, seems like there was about a 30 sec delay each way, made for a very confusing conversation, Kids these days have it made! Still got to watch out for the booby traps and snipers though.
It’s being reported that 60% of Iraqis polled by the Associated Press want “Americans dead”, while 72% of Shiites and 80% of Sunnis want American troops to leave Iraq immediately.
The new Woodward book, “State of Denial” reports that Rumsfeld was under Cheney’s command, which taken with the secret 2001 oil meetings held in Cheney’s office, might explain why we’re in Iraq.
We should remember something. We lost the Vietnam War. We lost it because after many years of fighting, a majority of Vietnamese concluded that they didn’t like the United States, and we had to face the fact that it’s a fool’s errand to try to “help” people who don’t want our “help”. When we won WWII, we were viewed as liberators by Axis-oppressed peoples in occupied lands. That didn’t happen in Vietnam, and despite Rumsfeld’s rose-colored-glasses prediction four years ago, it isn’t happening in Iraq.
Never get caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy.
Ben
“How do we decide which sovereign states have the right to bear arms and which do not?”
Start with the one’s who have pledged to Allah to destroy you.
#$&*#$#!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Heckler:
Suspend egocentrism for one second, and tell me:
What makes America right?
If you can provide me with a rational answer to that question, I’ll be impressed.
Emphasis on ‘rational.’ I’m not going to accept these as rational:
A.) God is on our side.B.) We have the most money/property/technology.
Corollary to my question, is it POSSIBLE that maybe the United States has done something wrong? Possibly many things in succession, leading to a pattern of wrong action?
And, when you use the word “one’s” with an apostrophe, you imply possession, not plural. The word you needed to use was simply “ones” without the offending punctuation mark. “One’s” is correctly used in the sentence:
One’s rifle should be kept clean.
Meaning, the rifle that belongs in this case to the person who is the subject of the pronoun “one,” should be kept clean.
Wonder if you guys have heard about the Strong Moral Values Party Congressman who has resigned over his, ahem, courting of young pages. Male pages.
“Florida Republican Leaves Congress Over E-Mails”
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/washington/29wire-foley.html?hp&ex=1159588800&en=3ecd4438206bec48&ei=5094&partner=homepage
“Oh, that’s probably more liberal media bias, or that Congressman is just a closet liberal (pun intended)”
Republicans = trash
Yeah, ddub, that foley character is a regular barney frank. Of course, foley isn’t a leftist jew so he had to go. Hypocrite!!!
Viva la revolucion Blanco!!
There is a difference between being openly gay and being a closet chickenhawk/NAMBLA member.
Postal
What makes America right?!
There is no nation on this planet that values human life more than we do.
There is no nation on this planet that puts a higher value on human rights.(show me a country with constitution that compares to ours)
There is no nation on this planet that puts a higher value on individual freedom than we do.
There is no nation on this planet that has been a greater force for good.What is good? We have freed more people from tyranny, and oppresion than any other(that I know of) Though it is not calculable our very existance and willingness to act has saved millions of lives.
What is “right” is a moral judgement and thus open to debate. You can express what is “right” in Christian morality, or you can express what is “right” in Islamic law. You can express it in non-religious terms, which I tried to do at the top.
Look around the world, show me another nation that has people literally dying to try to reach it. Speak to people who have come here as refugees from other parts of the world. It might give you a new perspective.
I’m sure that there are some around this blog who could express it better than I have but you have my best shot on a saturday night.
Sure you can sit here and run off a list of horrible things that this nation has done in it’s history, but on balance you won’t find a better place to live on this planet.
Postal
And as for the punctuation corrections you can go stuph it, this isn’t hie skool grammer clas.
Well said Heckler.
A positive message like that will be lost on a lot of our lefty friends around here. Such as those who run down our country, finding fault everywhere, while cheering on thugs like Hugo Chavez. But don’t try to call their acts unpatriotic, because they say dissent is good. I agree to a certain extent. But when it comes down to tearing down this country in front of the world, or cheering on those who do, that is unpatriotic.
What is patriotism, if not a bias in favor of your own country?
Here, here Heckler, let me buy you a beer! (or two)
Hank
Postal,
Barney frank was caught having sex with a very young male prostitute! Of course, there are lower standards for leftists and jews. Heck, in my home state of taxachusetts you can even kill people and get re-elected for life, if you are a leftist demorat. Hypocrites!
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Well Said Heckler,
Its just that those who disagree with Bush, are trying hard to point out that his decisions and policies are slowingly tearing away at the freedoms we posses in this country.
-Wiretapping laws-Right to ignore Geneva convention-Patriot Act initiatives
These above are all dangerous precedents that could leads us down a fascist police state road that America has no business being on.
“There is no nation on this planet that values human life more than we do.
There is no nation on this planet that puts a higher value on human rights.(show me a country with constitution that compares to ours)”
In a word (or three): Canada. Sweden. Switzerland. Others. Go and look at Amnesty International’s reports. They’re none too impressed with the United States right now.
“There is no nation on this planet that puts a higher value on individual freedom than we do.”
Two words: “The Netherlands.”
We as a people continuously attempt to put limitations on other peoples’ rights so we can feel better/warmer/safer. Drugs-guns-abortion-religion-same sex marriage-etc etc etc.
“There is no nation on this planet that has been a greater force for good.What is good? We have freed more people from tyranny, and oppresion than any other(that I know of) Though it is not calculable our very existance and willingness to act has saved millions of lives.”
True to an extent. We are awfully selective about who and where we go ‘rescuing.’ When there’s resources involved, our reaction is often knee-jerk. When it’s poor black people, we wait until they kill each other off for a while before we get involved. I’m waiting with bated breath to see what we do about Darfur. The international community, as witnessed through the UN (which the United States can railroad at its whim, being one of the original members) jacked up horribly in Rwanda. We are helpful in as much as there’s something in it for us. There are no Halliburton contracts to be had in a resourceless country in the middle of an agricultural country with poor soil.
The whole “Best country” argument is still correct, but it’s getting WORSE EVERY DAY. That’s my point.
Postal
I can’t say for sure about the nations you named, but you might check out the Hate Speech laws in them. You can get thrown in jail inCanada for saying the wrong thing about someone’s religion, IIRC.
I’m going to do some checking tomorrow but methinks you have a clouded vision in regards to several of those you mentioned. Not as free as you think.
The sexual oddities of Florida representative Foley are eyebrow raising aren’t they?
Know what is even more interesting?
Nancy Pelosi just a half hour ago on the House floor revealed that another Republican representative Alexander ( I didn’t catch the stare) KNEW about the sordid behavior of Congressman Foley 11 MONTHS AGO!
(Cue whistling noise of a falling bomb)
The republican leadership knew too! The dems? Well they weren’t on the notify list. They got left out.
The republcans are currently scurrying frantically to try and deal with the matter. They tried to shout down a call by Pelosi for the matter to be reffered to the ethics commitee.
AH but when Pelosi demanded (over LOUD shouts) a recorded vote, the vote to refer was 210-0!
Seems the GOP is having trouble coming to grasp with being the party of perverts and pervert enablers!!
I wonder how the Christian right will feel about THAT!
For starters, this is totally disgusting. But he did do the right thing and resign. Unfortunately it is probably years to late as well.I’m not buying the Democrats didn’t know about this sickos behavior.Just imagine your workplace. Republicans or Democrats, they are all co-workers. They all had to know or certainly heard whispers of what was going on.I saw a report tonight that it was pretty well known amongst all the ‘pages’ for years that he was someone to watch out for.If the word is getting around among a bunch of kids, you gotta think everyone else is hearing it too.
Perhaps the Democrats have taken a page from the dirty politics rule book from the Republicans. They knew about this perv but waited for the right moment to make the most of the soundbite for television news coverage.
Bravo!!
The US used to value life but with wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, killing in our streets every day by perverts in high schools, or just the kids in the high schools are killing nowadays.
And abortion is killing. I don’t think the US can be seen as a moral compass anymore. OUr society is very violent.
Give me an example of that Republican straegy CR?
I read that there have been other rumors circulated in his home state, and the republicans tried to place the gossip mongering on democrats. But it was really the RR that was trying to get him out. Don’t know if that’s true or not. But apparently he weathered that one out. Repubs. probably just got worried that someone would pull a Tiahrt on them and expose him. Oh, that’s not right because it was a newspaper that was going to run the story, and he couldn’t stop it so he resigned. Who knows maybe the repubs. planted it so they could name a replacement, instead of risking losing another seat.
I saw it happen live on Cspan.
Hoo boy you shoulda seen the face and heard the pleas of the majority leader!
(Paraphrasing)
“We know nothing about what minority leader Pelosi has brought us!”
They TRIED to shout her down, but Pelosi stood strong and demanded a recorded vote on whether to refer the matter to the ethics commitee. As I have said, the flummoxed republicans agreed unanimously.
And of course we now know that Jack Abramoff had far greater contact and access to the White House then bush earlier admitted.
OOOh does it suck to be a republican! You all have my sympathies.
NOT!
Oh I forgot some stuff.
(the GOP is very busy f>>>>>> up these days.)
Republican Senator Allen is in trouble. Guy had a noose hanging in his office when he was governor.
And Bob Woodward (slayer of the dragon that was Richard Nixon) has a new book that agrees with the NIE that bush is CREATING terrorists faster than he is catching them……among other embarrasing revelations.
I ALMOST pity Tony Snow.
Nahhhh I don’t.
suza:
We may have differing moral views, but you seem to have reached a similar conclusion to the one I brought up. Sure, we’re a great nation, but we degrade that every chance we get when we forget that violence begets violence ad infinitum.
Heckler:
You may find things about the countries I have listed that you find objectionable, but you are not going to find much fault with the freedoms offered by the Netherlands. Your complaint with Sweden may be its social programs and high tax base. And Switzerland is the ONLY direct democracy on the face of the planet. Ordinary citizens can challenge federal laws through referenda. Try finding that here in the States, where we have to do everything through our REPUBLIC, electing people to make our laws for us and hoping they remember the little guy who voted for them. The state of California is the closest thing to direct democracy, but the way their system is instituted is kinda screwy, and is commonly regarded as a bad experiment.
Once again, I will state: We are a great nation. We have been a great nation. However, we are swiftly sinking our standing as the “greatest” nation. If we continue, we may no longer be that great of a nation.
Good Postal. Then maybe all the world’s problems will stop falling on our shoulders and instead be on France’s. When billions are needed for aid from natural disasters or famines, look to France.When tyranny reins in regions of the world, who gets to be the world’s policeman, France.
France gives a large percentage of it gnp to foreign aid than America does. The aid that America gives pretty much all goes to Iraq, which is to say it goes to corporations in America to do nothing in Iraq.
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp
However, the US citizens voluntarily give more (freely and alone almost 3 times as much) than all other countries combined and at any level. Per GPD or otherwise.I’ll continue to vote for my money in my pocket (i.e. tax breaks)so I can choose what to support.
http://www.oecd.org/document/40/0,2340,en_2649_33721_36418344_1_1_1_1,00.html
We can kiss Bombardier goodbye in Wichita.
Thanks Union Fools!
Kia, are you not familiar with the per capita concept?
Steve, all the reports are saying this guy was a shoe-in to be re-elected, they weren’t worried about losing THAT seat. Till now.
“I’m not buying the Democrats didn’t know about this sickos behavior.”
LOL Kia, that’s a pretty PATHETIC statement right there. Amazing how you repug apologists try to blame everything on Democrats- even when its so apparently obviously not.
Doug for a man that seems so worried about his civil liberties and wire taps, etc. I think I’d mind my p’s and q’s. A lot of your statements could get you thrown in prison.
Mom there is nothing pathetic about it. LOL. I’m not blaming Democrats or saying the Republicans did the right thing by covering Foley’s garbage up. I’m the Congress is a workplace. And I would believe everyone there knew. Democrats I believe sat on the story until they needed a bombshell to help them in the upcoming election.Score one for your team.
When Republican Congressmen get caught propositioning teenage boys, they resign, unmourned by the Party except perhaps for a tinge of regret that the timing will likely cost us the chance to find a suitable replacement.
When Democratic Congressmen get caught actually having sex with underage boys who work for them, they go on to serve 13 more years in Congress with the full support of their party and they get celebratory biographies from Daily Kos on how “[t]he anti-gay crew had worked hard to demonize” them and “what had gone on in their bedroom was their business, and absolutely no one else’s”.
Republicans have no monopoly on morals. But at least we have shame.
On July 14, 1983, the House Ethics Committee concluded that U.S. Rep. Dan Crane (R-Ill.) and U.S. Rep. Gerry Studds (D-Mass.) had engaged in sexual relationships with minors. The minors in question were 17-year-old congressional pages. In Crane’s case, it was a 1980 relationship with a female page and in Studds’ case, it was a 1973 relationship with a male page. Both representatives immediately pleaded guilty to the charges and the committee decided to simply reprimand the two.
However, U.S. Rep. Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) demanded their expulsion. On July 20, the House voted for censure, the first time that censure had been imposed for sexual misconduct. Crane, who tearfully apologized for his transgression, lost his bid for reelection in 1984. Studds, however, refused to apologize (even calling a press conference with the former page, in which both stated that they were consenting adults at the time of the relationship and that it was therefore not the business of others to censure them for their private relationship), and he continued to be reelected until his retirement in 1996.
Hastert knew since last spring, and I bet he knew a lot earlier than that.
Lookee here, Kia is threatening me. It’s not surpring the conservatives, who can’t argue their way out of a paper bag, must resort to threats. Now he’ll sick the Bush secret police on me.
You too are a coward Kia. Sure, throw me in jail for pointing out that you don’t know squat about statistics, fucking coward.
I earlier saw some hope for moderation and reason on the part of kia. That hope is fading very rapidly.
Kia? The House ethics committee, which is run as everything else in the House is BY REPUBLICANS, has said that they will investigate the Foley matter…………wait for it…….you KNOW what’s coming……….AFTER the elections! Defend that. Defend that a pervert had access to kids that went in good faith to serve as pages in our government. Defend that several REPUBLICAN members of the House may have been complicit in this sick mans actions. Defend that politics and keeping their majority in the House is more important to the REPUBLICAN controlled House ethics committee than investigating this matter.