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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Sept. 2, 2006 at 12:04 a.m.
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69 Comments
Ouch.
http://www.freestatemedia.org/news/latest-headlines/iraq-is-central-front-in-gwot-to-bin-laden.html
America is a nation of finger pointers. We never admit to being wrong even when it’s obvious we screwed up, we prefer to blame somebody else. American foreign policy is unfair to say the least and we blame the Bush administration. Well correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t we Americans who are the ones responsible for putting these people in power in the first place? We are a democracy are we not? So SOMEBODY had to have voted them into office right? Then this person who WE put into power used that power to make an illegal war on a sovereign country. He used the American military to bomb Baghdad to the stone age, and we say “look! it’s all Bush’s fault.” But you never hear anyone say WE were at fault. You never hear anyone say WE were wrong! It always ends up as somebody else’s mistake, resorting to knee-jerk finger pointing on different sides. We see these Abu Ghraib prisoners and we return to hurling our insults at Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, we equate Bush to the anti-Christ yet we fail to publicly admit to the fact that it was Americans who tortured those people. We never admit to the fact that it was Americans who murdered civilians. Then we still have the audacity to say and even believe that we are a nation that does not torture and murder innocent people! We can not hope to secure a better future for our children if we as a people refuse to accept responsibility for our actions. If we don’t wise up and understand that when you vote you give a tremendous amount of power to a single person who dictates world affairs for the next 4 possibly 8 years, and if we continue to believe that such a man can go gallavanting about the world wreaking havoc and believe that we as a people can be exonerated from his actions by blaming it all on him, then our country will not last. Please do not let America be snuffed out in its infancy! There is much potential for this country, look how much we have accomplished in a span of only 200 years! We are a people destined for greatness. Learn from the Romans. Don’t let your arrogance become your downfall.
I did not vote for the dimwit. What’s so difficult about that to understand?
My mama always said, “If you don’t vote, you don’t have the right to complain about who’s in office.”
I voted. And it sure wasn’t for George W. Bush.
Will,
I’m sure YOU never had a bad word to say against Clinton and the previous administration, right?
tee hee
WASHINGTON, Sept. 1 — An enduring mystery of the C.I.A. leak case has been solved in recent days, but with a new twist: Patrick J. Fitzgerald, the prosecutor, knew the identity of the leaker from his very first day in the special counsel’s chair, but kept the inquiry open for nearly two more years before indicting I. Lewis Libby Jr., Vice President Dick Cheney’s former chief of staff, on obstruction charges.Now, the question of whether Mr. Fitzgerald properly exercised his prosecutorial discretion in continuing to pursue possible wrongdoing in the case has become the subject of rich debate on editorial pages and in legal and political circles.
WHY DO I HAVE TO GO TO THE NY TIMES TO READ ABOUT THIS?
RA
Here’s more- from David Frum”Armitage, a former Marine, often questioned the physical courage of civilians who disagreed with him. But after the scandal exploded, and even as his administration colleagues and the President to whom he owed loyalty were exposed to enormous legal jeopardy by his actions, he kept silent to protect himself.
It’s a shameful story. But the shame does not fall quite where the media promoters of the story hoped it would. Which may explain why newspapers such as The New York Times and left-wing blogs which once relished every last twist and turn of the saga have suddenly gone as silent about it as Armitage himself.”http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1694332/posts
As you point out RA, It has been addressed by the NYT in a news story. Will they address it editorially, we’ll see.
Great link Heckler, I loved it. I am sure we will see a lot of Blogers trying to spin this one.
WASHINGTON – Sectarian violence is spreading in Iraq and the security problems have become more complex than at any time since the U.S. invasion in 2003, a Pentagon report said Friday.
In a notably gloomy report to Congress, the Pentagon reported that illegal militias have become more entrenched, especially in Baghdad neighborhoods where they are seen as providers of both security and basic social services.
The report described a rising tide of sectarian violence, fed in part by interference from neighboring Iran and Syria and driven by a “vocal minority” of religious extremists who oppose the idea of a democratic Iraq.
Death squads targeting mainly Iraqi civilians are a growing problem, heightening the risk of civil war, the report said.
On the Plame Affair.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/31/AR2006083101460.html
On the Wash Post’s op-ed of the Plame affair,
‘Wash Post editorial board quoted one Post story to attack Wilson and Plame, appears not to have read any others’http://mediamatters.org/items/200609020003
‘Larry C. Johnson: Smearing the Wilsons and Sliming America’http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20060902/cm_huffpost/028557
‘Smearing Joe Wilson, Again’http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_robert_p_060901_smearing_joe_wilson_2c.htm
Yes we are a bunch of finger pointers in this country. No one takes any blame for their actions and I mean no one.
Look at the Bush administration. When they get caught in their lies – they will stand and call their accusers unpatriotic or unAmerican.
When our leaders who are voted in office start standing up and taking their own blame – then you can expect the rest of the country to do the same.
As I recall about the Abu prison scandal, Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush all disagreed with the findings and even went so far as to say torture was okay.
So don’t paint the Bushies as being victims of blame.
Huh?
So the truth about Terry Fox’s resignation is starting to trickle out.
What struck me in the article is that some church members thought Fox has an arrogant attitude. When Terry Fox was asked about that – Fox himself said that those were rumors and should not be listened to. How arrogant is that?
Also, Fox took a secretary and 2 pastors with him to his new church. And Fox said that the new church would have to pay for the staff. Why would a new church need a secretary and two additional pastors right away?
Anyone can follow any preacher they want but it sounds like Terry Fox has been bitten by the egotistical bug. Most preachers that have followed this same route eventually fall in disgrace.
Honestly! I don’t know why the Eagle gives much attention to church matters.
The real story is how connected the Etheridge (Wild West World) is to Fox, that actually surprised me.
Also word on the street! The Wranglers could possibly be staying in Wichita. The Springdale contract negotiations isn’t making the Rich’s happy and they may pull out all together. Springdale has already threaten that they will go elsewhere to find another team.
…Pending
I hope that these traitors spend hard time in prison.
Wichita Business Journalby Ken Vandruff
The owner of a Wichita company along with his general manager pleaded guilty Wednesday to helping to supply documents so illegal aliens could keep their jobs.
Bob Eisel, owner of Eisel Powder Coatings Inc., and Kenric “Butch” Steinert, general manager face fines and possible prison time for their plea to one count of making a false statement on an I-9 Employment Eligibility Verification Form.
The company’s foreman, Troy Hook, pleaded not guilty and will face trial.
The three men and the company were named in a 28-count grand jury indictment claiming that they had been told by the Social Security Administration that some of their employees had Social Security numbers that belonged to other people.
Full article
Immigration Costs More Than Thought
Site Outs Capitalist Exploiters
La Raza List of Corporate TraitorsSource: Wichita Business Journalhttp://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=9995
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Quote fo the Day:
“One of the finest things ever done by the mob was the Crucifixion of Christ. Intellectually it was a splendid gesture. But trust the mob to bungle the job. If I’d had charge of executing Christ, I’d have handled it differently. You see, what I’d have done was had him shipped to Rome and fed him to the lions. They could never have made a savior out of mincement!” (Rabbi Ben Hecht)
V.L.R.B!!!
Like I said in my other post, mankind has used religion to justify his intolerance, prejudice, and persecution ever since the dawn of man. You are no exception to that Ian, so why don’t you put on your white sheet and go do your god’s work for awhile.
Mary-Damoon,
You are still so anxious to shoot the messenger because you can’t stand the TRUTH of the message. For shame, Mary, for shame.
V.L.R.B!!!
It’s not TRUTH to anyone but you, Ian.
G.F.Y.S!!!!
BTW, Ian, what color IS your god? I thought Jesus was a jew, not a white European.
Mary,
You are all getting so shrill and hysterical as of late. The great egalitarian fraud is crumbling so it is to be expected. The multiracialst cult is the ultimate faith based ideology, so you just gotta believe. Keep wishing and hoping harder. Maybe a few million verses of “kumbayah” and you will be able to render null and void the laws of God, nature and economics. lmosrfao
Vaya Con Dios and … Viva La Raza Blanco!!!!!
Funny, I don’t feel hysterical, you’re the one that’s ranting and raving. I’m just bored.
G.F.Y.S!!
So what is the color of your god, Ian?
Was Jesus caucasion or not?
Mary,
God is a black woman. didn’t you know that?
v.L.R.B!!
Good! I feel reassured now.
Yes Mary, God is OPRAH! I knew that would fit in with your “worldview”. Lmosrfao
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!!
RD,Have you ever seen Anti-American protests in the Middle East? They’re chanting slogans are “Down with AMERICA” what they aren’t shouting is: “Down with REPUBLICANS” Do you still think these people aren’t gonna hold you responsible?
Think again.
Hey Ian, I’d trust a black woman over a white man anyday. Having Oprah in charge would be just fine and dandy with me!
G.F.Y.S.I!!
You still haven’t answered my question, Ian…was Jesus a white man? How do you reconcile with the fact that he was a jew?
Mary,
Pilate described Jesus as having a head of golden hair and a golden beard. He contrasts the appearance of Christ with his swarthy followers. :)
V.L.R.B!!
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus was a white European? That’s pretty funny.
Jesus was an observant Jew. Probably an itenerant Rabbi.
Jesus was not a “Jew” but I guess it depend on how you define “Jew”.
V.L.R.B!!
Mary,
I did not say that Jesus was European, I said he was caucasion, or White if you will.
A frien of mine is a Palestinian Christian woman and she is very fair skinned, and she has light blond hair and green eyes. The majority of present day Jews are actually central-Asian Khazars!
V.L.R.B!!
Your belief that Jesus was white is wishful thinking.I know Afican Americans with skin lighter than mine, but that doesn’t make them caucasion. Jesus was of the Jewish race, he wasn’t caucasion.
Ian your friend sound far more interesting then this topic LoL
While I was shopping at Wal-Mart today I came across a windchime with coconuts on it. As soon as I saw it I immediately thought of Ian.Just thought I’d share…
I keep a coconut shell next to my computer. I plan to smooth it out and paint blond hair and blue eyes on it to be more representative of our esteemed blog Nazi.
Welcome back Julie!
“Nearly a month after he abruptly resigned as pastor of Immanuel Baptist Church in Wichita, the Rev. Terry Fox will launch a new church in Park City on Sunday. And his former church soon will begin a search for a pastor with possibly a much different leadership style.”
And I STILL don’t give a rat’s ass. But thanks for showing me what to look forward to in the print edition. I turned down another opportunity to subscribe today.
Ian – if I am correct, according to the Gospels He was of the House of David. That is about as Jewish as you can get.
And I continue to wonder just why it is that SOME on the right and SOME Christians do not want the true story of Fox leaving Immanuel told. Why is that?
And some of these same folk don’t want the Eagle to talk about Fred Phelps either. Why is that?
More interesting in the Eagle’s faith section today today was the assertion by author David Ray Griffin and Presbyterian Publishing that the bush administration was complicit in the events of 911.
The book is apparently called “Christian Faith and the Truth Behind 9/11″. I intend to read that book.
It cannot be denied that there was only one entity that stood to gain from 911.
Consider a president “elected” only by intervention of the Supreme Court. Consider that the divide that “election” produced was NOT going away.
Consider that on 9/10 2001 bush’s approval rating was 50%. Just those who voted for him.
Consider that on 9/14 his approval rating rose to more than 70%. For NO reason other than the events of 911.
I’d say it is time to give the conspiracy idea a closer look.
>>And I continue to wonder just why it is that SOME on the right and SOME Christians do not want the true story of Fox leaving Immanuel told. Why is that?<<
Ummm…..to take a line from you frothing-at-the-mouth lefties… I DON’T FUCKING CARE!!! I don’t go to church, I don’t listen to Terry Fox (I’ll the ‘monitoring’ to you, pal…do you have a life?), and somehow I STILL vote Republican.
But you and the rest of your ilks are free to work yourselves into a dither over it. Write books about it, if you wish. Buy and read those books. Go sit on a folding chair at Watermark or Borders, sip latte, go outside and smoke clove cigarettes, and congratulate yourselves on the superiority of your intellect and your enlightened views. Rant about it on blogs.
We on the Dark Side love it when you do that, BTW.
But don’t take it too personal. I’m just a little cranky right now. If you lefties weren’t around, I wouldn’t have anything to get pissed off about (and vice-versa).
“jack Straw” didn’t you used to be Joe Blow?
Um “Jack”?
“Ummm…..to take a line from you frothing-at-the-mouth lefties… I DON’T FUCKING CARE!!!”
Hey “Jack” do a bonedig to find that particular sentiment from a “lefty”.
It’s mostly the right that froths hereabouts “Jack”. Your last was pretty foamy! Go bark at the Moon and let us grownups handle stuff ‘k?
Terry Fox has inflicted himself on laws and society. I say that makes him and his activities a matter for public discourse.
Why is it that the some on the right disagree? You’d rather we no notice?
I’ve asked you before, JR, WHY exactly is it that you “monitor” right-wing radio? Do you look at the websites, too? Which ones? And what ‘right-wing radio’ is it that you listen to? And why is it that you “monitor” them? Who do you report to?
I’m just curious.
Well “Jack”
I try to stay informed. This means understanding the “other side”. I “report” to those I know and my fellow bloggers here. I share information without deceit or omission.
Why do you decry the exposure of information as you did above.?
Ron–
So you believe what Osama bin Laden says eh?
See, I don’t.
His “priorities” are not my priorities. He may say Iraq is World War III.
I say it’s a waste of money and lives in a pissant country that has the misfortune of sitting on top of a helluva lot of oil.
There’re only two outcomes in Iraq–neither good. One, the US succeeds in installing a puppet dictator like Saddam Hussein who can hold the country together or two, Iraq fragments into three balkanized countries.
The latter is much more likely to happen than the former. As a result the Sunni minority will be cut out of the oil revenue and fight like tigers to get it back, while the Shi’a will align themselves more closely to the Shi’a in Iran.
George W. really f*cked us.
We can’t stay cause we’re seriously losing people and money. We can’t leave because we need the oil.
Probably the best we could hope for is a phased US withdrawl to be replaced by UN troops.
Maybe we could pump the oil dry and then leave. After the oil is gone, Iraq is of no concern to us whatsoever.
Jack–
Let me be the first to say for all us “lefties,” thanks for not shopping at bookstores.
Reading is so confusing, isn’t it?
Much easier just to listen to your drug-addled idol, Rush Limpballs . . .
“Do you still think these people aren’t gonna hold you responsible?”
Will,
As it is, the entire world thinks the citizens of the U.S. are brainless for voting for Bush a second time. There’s not a whole lot I can do about everyone else. I’m accountable for what I do. Maybe those who did vote for Bush should open their eyes and take a fresh look and take the responsibility by, first, voting, and second, voting with an eye on what will happen if continue on the path we’re on now.
It’s kind of like that kid in class who acted up, and the entire class was disciplined for it. It isn’t fair, but that’s the way it is. We, as a nation, are all now responsible for the actions of a few. Now do you understand why those who opposed the invasion of Iraq and oppose Bush are feeling grumpy? We’re being punished for something we didn’t do. But then, that’s politics, isn’t it?
Did anyone read “Doonsbury” in today’s paper? I thought it was rather on target when it comes to the GOP and right wing pundits.
Who stands to defend Western civilization in its authenticity and fullness? Certainly not liberals. Those in the intellectual sector are largely multiculturalists; those in the business sector are largely globalists; and those in the political sector largely represent these business and intellectual views. All adhere to the universalist ideology, and liberals have never liked tradition anyway. They only accept their own tradition, that of the Enlightenment, if they re-conceive of it as being not “tradition” but “progress.”
One would expect conservatives to like and support tradition. But among purported conservatives, it is important to make a distinction between traditional and neoconservatives. From their origins (be it followers of Leon Trotsky or of Leo Strauss), neoconservatives have seen the Christian tradition as an alien, even a threatening, one. As for the classical tradition, their view of it has been formed by the decidedly untraditional interpretation of classical philosophy given by Strauss. The only Western tradition that neoconservatives want to defend is the Enlightenment. In recent years, they have wanted to advance it in the rest of the world with the establishment of a kind of American empire. This is not a conservative project but a radical and revolutionary one.
The true defenders of the Western traditions will be the traditional conservatives. They are able to recognize that the central and crucial tradition of Western civilization is the Christian tradition, which has carried on the best elements of the classical tradition, while subordinating them to a higher Biblical truth. Christianity, in other words, kept the other Western traditions in balance. Perhaps in our time it is the calling of those few traditional conservatives found within the educated elite to reach out to the large numbers of Christians within their wider population, to help deepen their understanding of the major issues before us, and to give voice to their Christian — and Western convictions.
The protagonists of the contemporary version of the Enlightenment may think that they will create a universal civilization, both abroad and at home, but the evidence is accumulating that they have instead opened the doors to the barbarians, both without (e.g., Islamic terrorists) and within (e.g., pagan disregard for human life.)
The best defense against the new barbarians will be found in the Christian religion, for with it, Western civilization became the most creative, indeed the highest, civilization in human history. With a revival of the Christian tradition, Western civilization would not only prevail over the new barbarians, but it would become more truly civilized.
http://www.grecoreport.com/western_civilization_and_christianity1.htm
>>Let me be the first to say for all us “lefties,” thanks for not shopping at bookstores.<<
Who says I don’t, Capn? I do sometimes, but really prefer amazon, since you can generally get the same books for about half what you can at Border’s or B&N. It’s been years since I was in Watermark, but I can’t imagine their prices are very good.
I was really fairly impressed by Seventh-Day Books when I went in there recently. But they didn’t have the lattes and other pretensions you lefties love so much about your bookstores.
I’m going to take this oppotunity to respond to the cheap shot Joe Williams took at me yesterday in the Jeffs thread.To compare anyone to a sicko like John Mark Karr is completely reprehensible.For the record:My fiancee is not a “child”. She was well over the age of consent when we met, and she is three years older today.We met through a friend…hardly a “mail order bride”…although that’s how I met my first love, and I daresay that with research showing only 1 of 200 such marriages end in failure, you family values types should probably not think that is a bad thing.We have been discussing marriage for three years now… and because of who I am, and because there are colossal jerks like Williams out there, I have been the reluctant one. Do whatever you want to me. I can dish it out, I damn well better be able to take it. But she doesn’t deserve your crap, Williams.After three years… and she’s stil hanging in there… I consider myself the luckiest man alive.I doubt seriously there’s anything I can do about it since I meet the legal definition of a “public figure”, but barring an apology, I’ll be consulting an attorney on Tuesday.
Strawhead – I’m not even sure what a ‘latte’ is. I drink my coffee strong and black.
Here here Mr.C!
I saw Joe’s attack on you. I did not respond because I did not want to lend ANY of my “voice” to his beknighted one.
He certainly owes you and this forum an apology.
Joe’s personal ad hominum attack comes as no surprise whatsoever to anyone who knows him.
It’s ‘ad hominem’. Easy mistake.
Some of us knuckle-dragging righties are semi-literate. Educated, even. Even if we don’t hang out in bookstores, or smoke clove cigarettes.
clove cigarettes? What are those?
Ben,Clove cigarettes are ones that smell even worse that regular ones. They use cloves spice rather than tobacco.
JackSmack–
You don’t even bother to come up with your own insults, you just recycle the old ones.
I was in Watermark books as recently as last Saturday. I enjoyed some of their fine coffee and a cupcake. I don’t know if they had lattes or not.
No one was smoking anything because it’s a smoke-free store, which is kind of smart with piles of flammable books around.
Clove cigarettes?
You should really meet a liberal sometime so you don’t have to say things that make you look like an idiot.
Oops . . . too late.
Hmmm, do you suppose js actually reads Thomas Frank?
Remember, Tom is the one in “what’s the matter with kansas” who noted that most knuckle dragging righties think of anyone left of Spiro Agnew is a “latte sipping northeastern jew liberal who went to NYU and reads the NYT.”
Js, yer busted. Yer reading and quoting Thomas Frank.
Or are you just the kinda guy who is a parody in Frank’s writing?
heheheheheheh
>>anyone left of Spiro Agnew is a “latte sipping northeastern jew liberal who went to NYU and reads the NYT.”<<
Not me, that would be jew-gas Ed. One of my best friends is a latte-sipping northeastern jew liberal; I don’t think he went to NYU, but he does read the NYT and was an raving Deaniac before it was cool.
Okay, fine, Jack.
But does he smoke CLOVE cigarettes?
I don’t think he can be a true liberal if he doesn’t smoke CLOVE cigarettes.
>>But does he smoke CLOVE cigarettes<<
Nope, but he’s got a lot of artsy-fartsy friends that do (he lives up in KC). Most of ‘em wear all black clothing, too…like Dieter on the old SNL skit. No need to parody stuff like that.
Jack, may I ask how old your friend is?
And what’s wrong with clove cigarettes? Granted, I’m not a clove lover, but they’re a darn sight better than tobacco as far as health is concerned. Or so I’ve been told. :)
>>Jack, may I ask how old your friend is?<<
I’m not really too sure…early 50’s, I think. Which is kinda old for a nutroots Deaniac, but he was on the bandwagon verrry early. Went up to Iowa and the whole nine yards.