Not only should it be against state law for Attorney General Phill Kline to send campaign solicitations to e-mail addresses collected through his office Web site, but it already is, according to Joan Claybrook, president of Public Citizen in Washington, D.C. Saying her group was “shocked” that the Kansas Governmental Ethics Commission considers the practice lawful, Claybrook told the Harris News Service that a Kansas statute prohibiting the “use of public funds, vehicles, machinery, equipment and supplies” for a candidate’s campaign should suffice, because the e-mail list should be considered state property. “There are plenty of opportunities for airing this issue,” Claybrook said, “but sweeping it under the rug, in my view, is not an option.”
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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50 Comments
Maybe Kline can join his leutenant Brown with a criminal record.
This issue is a case of the questionable ethics of Kline. Because something is not illegal, does not in turn make it ethical. A concept, apparently beyond our esteemed AG.
However, in his long list of problems as an AG, this is a rather minor problem.
I find it rather more upsetting that my tax dollars are supporting Kline’s political payback to Tiller via Kline’s inquisitorial subpeonas. I find it upsetting that my tax dollars were spent to provide Kline with remedial education to prepare him for his appearance before the U.S. Supreme Court.
Kline is not qualified for his job. Kind of reminds one of Connie Morris, Bob Corkins, etc. We started a trend with Connie this summer, let’s finish it, Kansas.
Were Bryan Brown’s crimes related to abortion protests? Anybody know?
Hopefully we can get real crime fighters like Morrison in office to pursue criminals like Kline.
BTW, Brown’s crimes were connected to his terrorist activities with Operation Rescue. Brown still refuses to pay the fines the courts demand he pay. This just shows the Kline crime family’s respect for the law.
From the LJWorld:
“The report questioned Kline’s appointment of Bryan Brown to head the consumer protection division, saying the division should be led by someone whose qualifications and fitness for the job are unquestioned.
“Abortion rights supporters have criticized Brown because of his past anti-abortion activities and for not paying a $61,616 court judgment in Indiana.”
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2003/mar/19/senate_panel_approves/
$61K is not an insignificant debt, at least in my budget.
“use of public funds, vehicles, machinery, equipment and supplies.”
Can you read the above and in your most liberal interpretation infer “email list”?
Let’s see, is it a public fund? No. A vehicle? Nope. Machinery? Uh uh. Equipment? Can’t see it. Supplies??????
Not even a gray area. None of Kline’s opponents have made that argument because it is laughable.
And the Wichita Eagle’s assault on Kline continues.
I agree with you Outlander. I am not Kline’s biggest fan but the Eagle really seems to be piling on!
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
This is more info on Brown:
http://84.40.30.104/news/stories/7284597.html
Gosh guys,
The Eagle reporting what some D.C. advocay group is saying is piling on?
I don’t know that the email list is the property of the government like “equipment, vehicles, etc.” But didn’t the state of Kansas tax funds pay for Kline’s internet access and websites? So, wasn’t that information (requests for information on the conceal/carry law implementation) acquired through tax payer funds?
I was pretty sure that state and federal law has upheld the idea that internet services paid for by an employer are property of the employer and of which use can be dictated by the employer.
To my way of thinking, Kline obtained information about potential voters by way of my tax dollars. That is not okay with me.
As I said above, however, this is a relatively minor offense perpetrated by this Kansas politician.
Outie and Ian are really knowledgeable about law.
Those terrible people should apologize to our hero Philllll.
He’s a repugnican.And the AG.By God (literally) he’ll tell YOU what the law is.And if it should apply to him in war time. HA
He’s only the Attorney General.
You can’t expect him to know the law . . .
A client list is generally considered to be the property of one’s employer. There have been many cases where a former employee gets nailed for taking such a list with him. This email list should be considered the same thing – state property.
Thanks for the clarification, Ben. Kline’s problem is more than that he used the state’s equipment to obtain info, the info itself is owned by the State. If the preceding applies in this case, aren’t we talking about Kline stealing from the state? And, isn’t that a crime?
If nothing else, the computers and servers that the E-mail addresses came in on and were collected from are clearly state property. Don’t know if the addresses were downloaded or forwarded via E-mail to the campaign but that too gets into use of state property.
For arguments sake, because I am not a Kline supporter. Did Kline deprive the state of use the list? Does the list have any purpose in state business? Is the state put at a competitive disadvantage because the list was used by Kline?
A client list is one thing because it has value to a business and the one converting it to his own use is stealing potential business from his former employer. This situation is easily differentiated from Ben’s example.
I am not arguing that it shouldn’t be prohibited, but it clearly isn’t now. To not dismiss “Public Citizen’s argument out of hand is ridiculous. And to quote the leftist “Public Citizen” as a credible source without disclosing who they are is typical of the Eagle. If the Heritage Foundation is quoted, it is “a conservative think tank”.
I don’t know who I am going to vote for for A.G. But the Eagle’s unfair treatment and obsession with Kline is pushing me toward him.
out – citizens had disclosed personal information to the AG’s office. In doing so they are justified to rely upon that information being kept CONFIDENTIAL. By releasing that information to an outside entity Kline violated that confidence.
Using your logic, if I worked for the Drivers License office and had a list of names with Social Security numbers why shouldn’t I use it? After all, I wouldn’t be depriving the state of the information or putting the state at an economic disadvantage!
And some more dandy logic there outie.The more the newspaper argues that Klines a jerk, the more you want to vote for him??Hmmm….You must REALLY like Bush by now!!
Outlander,
No one was injured by Kline’s use of the list? How about Paul Morrison? Doesn’t Kline’s use of the list put Morrison at a competitive disadvantage? A disadvantage subsidized by Kansas taxpayers?
I don’t get that you and Ian don’t get this. It’s unethical as hell.
I wonder how much of the information Kline got with his fishing expeditions ended up with Operation Rescue?
IOKIYAR.
Kline’s campaign checked with the Kansas Governmental Ethics Commission before they sent the emails. They were assured it was legal. I guess the Eagle forgot to put that in.
Whether it was good judgement to send the emails is another matter. But for the Eagle to bring the subject up again under the guise that it may indeed be illegal, based on the say of a left wing organization when they know it is not true is disingenous.
outlander – I definitely know that I do NOT want my personal information given out by Kline to his cronies. What next? Personal information about crime victims to security alarm companies? Securities fraud victims to other shady securities dealers?
Ben: As I mentioned, “whether it was good judgment to send the emails is another matter”. I will also look at it as a negative for Kline as I decide who to vote for for AG.
Problem is outlander, can I as a citizen feel confident in going to Kline’s office with any sort of confidential information? The answer is NO.
As I first said above, it may not be illegal, but it is unethical.
With Kline, the appearance of impropriety runs up and down and all around his office.
Inquisitorial subpeonas to rummage through private health records due to the AG’s opposition to abortion.
Tiller investigations for political payback.
Deputy AG unqualified for his job, but an old abortion foe friend.
Not illegal, but shamefully incompetent, biased, and partisan.
But in retaliation against the Eagle for covering this story, Outlander is going to vote for him?
Shaking my head…
I wonder, does the governor use vacation time for the days she spends campaigning? Just wundering.
I think what has got me going is the disproportionate power of the press. You can be a moron and as long as you have a by line, you have a the power to infect public opinion with your own bias.
So given this mantle, this responsiblity to the public, it galls me when journalists play even a little fast and loose with the truth. Even in a blog environment.——-
But of ocurse the disproportionate power in the AG’s office is OK. You can be a criminal but as long as you are in the office uoi can fish around in your enemies’ private lives.
So given this mantle, this responsibility to the public, it galls me when politician’criminals play fast and loose with citizens private information.
Public Citizen founded by Ralph Nader:
“Public Citizen is a national, nonprofit consumer advocacy organization founded in 1971 to represent consumer interests in Congress, the executive branch and the courts.”We fight for openness and democratic accountability in government, for the right of consumers to seek redress in the courts; for clean, safe and sustainable energy sources; for social and economic justice in trade policies; for strong health, safety and environmental protections; and for safe, effective and affordable prescription drugs and health care.
“We have six divisions and two state offices. To learn more about each of the divisions and Texas and California offices, click on the links below.”
http://www.citizen.org/about/
These guys don’t sound like bombing throwing anarchists to me. I think it is okay to be concerned about counsumers — that doesn’t sound like a crime or treasonous behavior to me…—–
It is human nature, Steven to feel sympathy for someone being picked on unfairly. And you know, because I have mentioned it before, that it is just not this instance, but the cumulation of 5 negative Kline lead ins from the Eagle in about a week. When I see that kind of obsession, I wonder why.
The fact that organizations like “Public Citizen” are sticking their nose in our state’s business is also a plus for Kline.
So as I understand this, Phill Kline’s campaign used an email listing gathered from the people that had contacted the AG office regarding concealed carry law info.
I wonder if anyone from that email listing that was contacted by the campaign has complained?
If they did, then wouldn’t that bring on an investigation into the ethics question.
Didn’t you get the memo Steven? Consumers only deserve protection if they are on the “right side” according to Operation Rescue!
Ben,
I would wonder if Outlander really hasn’t made up his mind who he is going to vote for. It may be that the pervasive appearance of impropriety is oaky with him if you have the right politics and religious leanings.
In fairness, I don’t know anything about our friend outlander’s behavior, but I have wondered just how disclosing he has been here today.
Maybe there is so much negative media about Phill Kline because that is what this man generates?
Outlander,
When you are a public figure, the press is entitled to report on what you do, say, etc. If that is unfair treatment, what would you suggest as an alternative. Don’t we let the public figure critique the press findings? That happens all the time.
Not always, but sometimes – “where there is smoke, there is fire” – Kline supplies plenty of smoke, IMHO – which may have something to do with the press being so interested in him.
oh please,you lefties find something wrong with all republican right wingers who have morals.
have morals? Kline hired a criminal slanderer. What kind of morals does THAT represent?
I guess if the ethics board pre-approved this, maybe they should be looked into more carefully. I can’t for the life of me figure out how anyone could think that was ok to do.
Whether unethical or not, this has a really bad smell. I think it speaks much about Kline’s integrity or lack thereof! Way too slimy!
I don’t want him representing me in any way shape or form!!
Whether legal or not, Kline continues to be a laughingstock and bring ridicule on Kansas.
A Theory:One of the things that conservatives like about Kline is, they can point to him and say, “He’s a bigger jerk than I am”.
If Kline would leave the abortion clinics and the teenage girls alone….
They appreciate their ‘whipping boy’.
Are voter registration lists “property of the government” —I know, from personal experience, that whenever I have purchased a voter registration list from Sedgwick County I had to sign a form saying that I would not put that list to any COMMERCIAL use. Political use was, of course, allowed, even encouraged.This is a huge stretch folks, thinking that Kline has done anything wrong here is ridiculous.As a general rule, anything that you can do over the phone you can do over email, as far as government is concerned.In other words, if you can get someones phone number during a work related call, you can later call that person concerning politics, or social matters, or anything else.Every elected official has done this, even the sainted Morrison.Take a breath folks.We dont need anyone who doesnt live in Kansas telling us what our laws say.Kansas also specifically allows certain salaried members of an elected officials staff to do some “dual purpose” or politically oriented work. Our lawmakers rightly realized that they did not want to put any “cop” in charge of figuring out whether a particular phone call was political or administrative in nature. A hard thing to control, because you cant really control the speach or the intent of the people who contact government offices.I am sure this out of state “expert” is not aware of this Kansas law.If we can pay someone to do some political work, isnt collecting names the most basic of any political work they might do?And at least, with email, it can all be forwarded, so no taxpayer paper or taxpayer ink.The brochure that all candidates are mailed, from the Ethics Commission, clearly spells out what I have stated hear.—-I just went to the State Fair, where I noticed at least 6 life size cut outs of Kathleen Sebelius, in front of various State of Kansas information booths.I bet the Eagle would beat up on Kline for such shamless campaigning, but Sebelius gets a pass!
Hey, you earned your thirty pieces of silver again today, Paul.
Well done.
Capn, I think I earned GOLD for this one, read the last sentence:
25-4169aChapter 25.–ELECTIONSArticle 41.–ELECTION CAMPAIGN FINANCE; GENERAL25-4169a. Use of public funds, vehicles, machinery, equipment and supplies and time of certain officers and employees to influence nomination or election of candidate prohibited; exceptions; misdemeanor. (a) No officer or employee of the state of Kansas, any county, any unified school district having 35,000 or more pupils regularly enrolled, any city of the first class or the board of public utilities of the city of Kansas City, Kansas, shall use or authorize the use of public funds or public vehicles, machinery, equipment or supplies of any such governmental agency or the time of any officer or employee of any such governmental agency, for which the officer or employee is compensated by such governmental agency, to expressly advocate the nomination, election or defeat of a clearly identified candidate to state office or local office. The provisions of this section prohibiting the use of time of any officer or employee for such purposes shall not apply to an incumbent officer campaigning for nomination or reelection to a succeeding term to such office or to members of the personal staff of any elected officer.
Tell me, if I or a member of my staff, as an elected official, can spend a portion of “government” time on politics, am I allowed to breath the “government” air, heated or air conditioned by the taxpayers? to sit in a “government chair”? to use a “government phone” or to use a government computer?This boob from out of state does not understand the law.—-Ask Morrison, point blank: have you ever discussed your personal election matters, ordered yardsigns, organized volunteers, over a “government phone” ???Come on, this is a bunch of bologne!
READ IT AND WEEP:
The provisions of this section prohibiting the use of time of any officer or employee for such purposes shall not apply to an incumbent officer campaigning for nomination or reelection to a succeeding term to such office or to members of the personal staff of any elected officer
In other words, if Morrison used his office for his Johnson County political race, that would be ok.Chances are very high that Morrison has used his office to work on the AG race, in that case, Morrison BROKE THE LAW!!
Fascinating, Paul, just fascinating . . .
Did you notice how Sebelius turned a ten point lead a few weeks ago over Barnett into a twenty point lead?
Did you see how Bush’s dead cat bounce after the 9-11 speech quickly fell back to 40 percent approval after just a few days?
You had it all–the White House, the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court–and you gave us historic high debt, a widening gap between rich and poor, a middle class losing earning power, an unnecessary and costly war in Iraq which we seem to be losing, and more and more outsourcing of jobs.
If you had any shame, you’d be begging for forgiveness. If you had any sanity, you’d demand an end to the war and the deficit spending. If you had any sense, you’d be voting Democratic.
But Paul,
We still have these little problems of:
1) Nepotism: Kline hired his nephew for a job that required driving; only problem was that nephew did NOT have a valid license.
2) Inquisitorial subpeonas to rummage through private health records due to the AG’s opposition to abortion.
3) Tiller investigations for political payback.
4) Deputy AG unqualified for his job, but an old abortion foe friend.
I’m sure you will find a way to defend this indefensible crap. Please don’t disappoint me. I wish that I could have those blinders you seem to have. Where did you get them?
Ah yes… look at Ben’s progression.
Now we are talking about the release of confidential information.
They were email address Ben!
Social security numbers are already protected information so your little DMV scenario is void.
Confidential information is just that, confidential and is protected.
It is amazing the leap of logic people take. We have gone from email address to confidential information…Social security numbers…etc…
Give me a break.
Kline checked on the legality of it. If you don’t like the law then change it. We already know you don’t like Kline, so you can stop trying to twist every situation that comes up to bash him.
There were heard it, the final arbitration of truth: Nathan likes Kline!
Change the laws, people…
Oh my goodness…
Convinces me I was correct all along.
Should be: “there we heard it…”
4) Deputy AG unqualified for his job, but an old abortion foe friend.
That makes him perfectly qualified for Kline. His criminal record is a plus!
CapnTruth is not subject to majority vote.We live in a Republic, not a direct democracy.Our founders feared pure majority rule.I know that I am right.I dont care about the polls, when the polls are against me it just means we have not explained ourselves well enough.It does not mean that I am wrong.You liberals all said Reagan was wrong when he walked away from the Soviets in Iceland.The polls even showed that the public had doubts.A short time later, the Berlin Wall came crashing down.Leaders lead against the polls.A Democrat tries to figure out which way the crowd is moving, and runs to get in front of them.This is not leadership!