Health insurance is the best employee benefit

The good news is that the 7.7 percent increase this year in health insurance premiums is the lowest increase since 2000. The bad news is that it is still twice the annual rate of inflation.
Currently, the average annual family premium is $11,480. This is too much for many employers to absorb. As a result, since 2000, the percentage of firms offering health benefits has fallen to 61 percent from 69 percent.
Some employers are trying to help themselves and their employees by offering plans with high deductibles and employee health savings plans to place more of the burden upon the employee. This may be an answer for some, but many can’t afford to get sick with a $2,000 annual deductible.
Posted by Angie Holladay
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/nation/15616192.htm
doctorout photo

46 Comments

  1. JM
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 6:05 am | Permalink

    Don’t blame the rising health costs on insurance companies, blame it on hospital corporations who have their hand in the greed bag so deep they reach into future wallets that haven’t even been born yet. I used to order medical supplies, pharmaceuticals and equipment. Sure, some of it is expensive (equipment), but charging per piece for a 4×4 gauze is about as Ebenezer Scrooge as one can get. The way things are now, Doctors can charge you for a visit in an in/out patient clinic even if they weren’t physcially there. If they merely sign their name or have in legal language the issuance of their name constitues the approval of procedures, then you can be charged a Physician’s presence.

    Cleaning your dinner plate:

    Ask next time that technician or nurse brings in a sterile pack to do something, how many items actually get used on your procedure. Most are very generalized and perhaps you will get charged 50 cents each for those six tongue depressers that are never even used or a sterile forceps in a sealed package that was never opened. Not to say that some that things shouldn’t be resterilized, but I think that doing the same procedures over and over, one would not waste resources and charge the patient excessive fees just because they don’t manage their supply use.

  2. CR
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    Health care is based on profit and only profit. It used to be doctors went into medicine to help people. Not anymore - it is about money.

    We have way too many specialists and specialty clinics. Bring back the family doctor that takes the time to know his patients. Get rid of the red tape paperwork that is unncessary.

    These people that want to return to the good old days - well in the good old days. Preachers and doctors were the ones in town that were the poorest. Nowadays - these mega church preachers and doctors are millionaires.

  3. heartlander
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    A significant factor in rising insurance costs is an aging population: the older people get, the more healthcare they use.

    We also enjoy continuous improvement in drugs and medical technologies from which the manufacturers want to earn profits. We could reduce costs by shortening patent protection to 10 years, enabling innovative companies to make a decent exclusive-rights-period profit, followed by quicker introduction of generic drugs and devices.

    Or we could make drug development a public enterprise, whose direction would be determined by panels of NIH and university physicians, public health experts and molecular scientists, whose goal wouldn’t be to maximize anybody’s profit, but rather to deliver the best benefits to society at the lowest practicable costs. The government could then auction off manufacturing and marketing licenses to private companies, perhaps multiple competing companies (selling the same product).

    Preventive health may be the biggest money-saver of all. This is nothing new. Sir William Osler, one of the founding physicians of Johns Hopkins Hospital, proposed a paradigm shift of focus from disease treatment to prevention a century ago.

    Smart companies are providing exercise facilities and health-club subsidies, and paying for smoking cessation and weight loss.

    More of them should promote bicycle-commuting, including paying workers exercise bonuses, and campaigning for bike racks on buses, and bike lanes, which many cities have: if people can ride bikes to work in Copenhagen, Berlin, Boston and Chicago, they could do it in Wichita much of the year. For example, with comprehensive bus service, people could ride to work every cool morning in summer, and then take the bus home in the hot afternoon. They could ride during all but the most inclement-weather days in winter and spring. For people whose jobs are more then 6-10 miles from their homes, cycling part of the distance and busing the remainder would be very healthy. (In addition to buses, a commuter rail system with bike accommodations might be considered, long term. Some cities have these.)

    So you get people to exercise more as part of their daily work-life, they save a lot of money in gas and car maintenance, they have more personal energy, plus they help America become less dependent on fossil fuel.

    We could also see a lot more kids riding bikes to school, as they do in Europe, and millions of American kids used to do. Early-learned habits tend to persist. Promoting healthful ones makes sense.

  4. suza
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    Riding bikes or walking to school was the only way I got to school. But in these days, it is not safe for kids to walk or ride their bikes. There are too many perverts around every corner and the drivers in this town will run you over without a thought as to the consequences.

  5. political_mom
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    There are many hospitals that end up shutting down, it’s not the greed of the hospitals. They are just trying to stay open. Doctors are paid extremely well, and they’re also paying back medical school and paying their staff and equipment. There are a lot of reasons why healthcare is so high, and lawsuits aint it.

    We have the highest priced healthcare in the world, and yet, we rank below in overall quality all the other nations that have universal healthcare.

    Remember when it took something REALLY serious to go see a specialist? My daughter just yesterday had a CT scan for headaches…for HEADACHES! Now I know why she got it, to rule out an aneurism or the like- but what is the liklihood of aneurism? Come on. And my migraine meds cost 160 dollars for TEN pills (thank God I only use about 4 a year).

    I said well we have a family hx of migraine, how about treating her first for that, and then see if that helps….oh no, couldn’t do that.

  6. Steven Davis
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    I read recently that when American companies compete with other countries who have socialized medicine that our costs are automatically 10% higher due to the difference in health care coverage.

    Universal, single payer coverage would not only help citizens needing health care, but could also help U.S. businesses compete in the global market.

    People, our current system is broken and in desperate need of fixing.

  7. heartlander
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    Socialized medicine isn’t a panacea. Canadians come to the U.S. for surgical procedures, paying out of pocket, to avoid 2-year waiting lines. Britain has a dual system: basic care for everyone, top-grade care for those who can afford it. Finland has a pay-out-of-pocket option.

    Again, the greying of industrialized nations’ populations incurs more medical and surgical care, and so all of their healthcare costs are rising.

    This being said, I don’t have a problem with a national health program. According to free-trade theory, people voluntarily enter trade transactions. The more knowledge a trader has, the more resource-power he possesses, the stronger his advantage in transactions.

    When people get sick, they can’t make business-modeled decisions. If you have a heart attack, are you or your spouse going to make calls around town shopping for the best heart-care price? You’re under a state of duress. Accordingly, this throws free-will-trade out the window.

    When you are sick, you have to have fiduciaries who take responsibility for protecting your interests. The profit motive is not really compatible with this, because it sets up COMPETING interests between service providers and recipients. Competing interest transactions are fine for selling TV’s and even cosmetic surgery for 50 years olds who want to look 10 years younger, but they are totally inappropriate for the treatment of pain, suffering and disability.

  8. Dennis
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    Don’t forget the medical suppliers who have their grasping hands out. My CPAP mask, 50 cents worth of plastic and, oh maybe, $100 worth of engineering, cost almost $900. No bleeping way it should cost that much.And, of course, they recommend replacing it every two years.

    Greed is good - if you are on the receiving, not the paying, side.

    Snort, hruumph!

  9. heartlander
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    suza, in my experience, most drivers are courteous, although I remember one pickup-driving old geezer who said something to the effect of, “You deserve to be run over,” because I had moved from a right-turn lane into the right-most through lane, and he didn’t understand that cyclists are no longer required to ride next to the curb at all times, as was the case many years ago.I did what I did because I read “Right Turn Only” and I wasn’t making a right turn, which is to say, I didn’t really want to go onto the freeway onramp.

    Our major streets are not designed for bikes. Very few people cycle, so drivers don’t have bike-awareness. But this can change. In cities that have bike lanes, motorists and cyclists stay in their respective lanes. With appropriate planning and public-awarness campaigns, cars and bikes have been demonstrated elsewhere to represent mutually compatible forms of transportation.

  10. Steven Davis
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    Agree with heartlander that free-market model for health care may not be such a good idea - sometimes.

    Having said that, there is a Blue Cross Blue Shield HMO in San Diego that requires its members to get all non-emergency and non-speciality medical care in Tijuana. Surveys of members indicate that they are very satisfied with their care.

    Health care tourism is also becoming a viable option. One can travel to and from India for health care and save money over having the care performed here.

    In terms of social justice, it seems inappropriate that the U.S. should have a two tiered system of health care. But if you think about it, the preceding is a pretty naive notion. The wealthy have always been able to afford the best care and that will continue. Concierge care is getting more popular on the coasts for those who can afford it.

  11. Posted September 28, 2006 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

    The two year waiting lines in Canada is a myth. I don’t know why the conservatives keep on spewing that misinformation. Every Canadian I’ve talked to never had to wait for a doctor visit. The same goes for other countries like France and Germany, no waiting lists.

    http://www.tpmcafe.com/node/29232

    Health care is cheaper in every nation that provides universal health care. In America medicare administrative costs are cheaper than private health plans.

    In America consumers are demanding to be able to purchase prescription drugs from Canada where they are bought in bulk by the government and hence cheaper. The Bush administration prohibited this activity citing terrorism (apparently drugs made in America, bought by Canada and sold back to America is risky) but in reality was just a means to screw the consumer with higher costs.

    An universal health plan offers lower costs while providing the same service. Businesses will save billions because their health care costs for employees will be reduced drastically and consumers will no longer have to make decisions on whether to buy medication or buy food. It’s sad when smaller, poorer countries like Chile are able to provide better health care to it’s people than the United States (the World Health Organization ranks the US health care system at 37, below Chile and Costa Rica).

    America is the richest country in the world but prefers to spend more than half it’s budget on the military. If America can find billions to spend on a missle defense system to fight off alien attacks then it can certainly fund health care for all it’s citizens.

  12. CR
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    Conservatives keep spewing the myth about socialized health care because these are the fat cats making profits off the current health care system. They are not about to see their profits go bye bye.

  13. suza
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    Good point about the bike paths Heartlander - if the taxpayers would be willing to pay for them and then the city put the bike paths where the children need them to ride to school.

    But with current busing we have, the kids no longer go to their neighborhood school like we did when I was a kid.

    That needs to change too. Obviously the intent of the desegration has not worked - the country is now more racially divided than ever before.

  14. CR
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    I have never understood why any elected official would not prefer to have as many of the American citizens as possible to be healthy. Just give us a basic health care plan that everyone can access. If you want more extended coverage, then you can pay for it yourself. What is wrong with this?

    I would think that if Pres Bush really professes to be a compassionate conservative - then he would try his best to get something changed in the current health care system.

  15. Wiseman
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    I don’t know about anybody else but I try to avoid going to Doctors and clinics even when I should go.If I do go I try to avoid high cost by deciding for my self what is affordable for my health care and I let them know that.Does anybody realize it is a trade law that if service is not render that you not have to pay the bill.Does anybody realize that the reasons of high cost medicine is because the consumers allow it to happen by being the passivist when negotiating the cost.If the Doctors and clinics want money you should force them to earn it just the same as you have to do.If you want lower and more affordable medicine than you will have to strong-arm them into it.If the health care is not affordable I simply will not pursue it.The bottom line about it is I do not get the care and they do not get any business from me, if they want the business it will be on my terms not theirs.

  16. Posted September 28, 2006 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    “Socialized medicine isn’t a panacea. Canadians come to the U.S. for surgical procedures, paying out of pocket, to avoid 2-year waiting lines.”

    You know, just because you keep repeating conventional wisdumb doesn’t make it true.

    From The Canadian Medical Asso. Journal: “Canadians are not rushing across the border to purchase medical care in the United States, a new study based largely on American data has concluded. In fact, the use of American medical facilities by Canadians is ’so small as to be barely detectable.’”

    http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/167/5/524

    But don’t let the facts stop you from repeating one satisfying ad populum argument.

    Rush and Bill would be so proud . . .

  17. Posted September 28, 2006 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    Anything that suggests that our laisse-faire economic system is good and our country is “the best in the world!” is to be believed without examination.

    Any evidence to the contrary is first scrutinized thoroughly for factual accuracy and when it passes that test, is attacked as being “un-American.”

  18. RD
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    Ditto what Doug and Capn said.

    Canadian healthcare is determined by each province, meaning some have better than others. I’ve spoken with many Canadians from different provinces and none have complained about their healthcare.

    I haven’t heard one person in the U.S. NOT complaining about healthcare.

    Hmmmmmm…

  19. Ben Huie
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    I’m not sure how it would be accomplished but I think companies would benefit a great deal by encouraging healthy activities on the part of employees. Perhaps replacing all the garbage I snack on with fruit, veges, cheese for example. Apples in the break room for example.

    Exercise, not even all that vigorous, if done in groups might work (but avoid the tacky japanese regimen).

    Crazy thing is we all KNOW what we need to do - we just don’t DO it!

  20. CR
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    But most people who go to the doctor will not question if he/she orders tests, labs, referrals, etc.

    We as patients need to be educated about our health and we should be able to speak up and ask questions when something is necessary and why?

    I worked for a neurologist and his complaint was that daughters of his elderly patients were the worst ones that came into the office. Why you ask? Because they ask too many damn questions.

    When a doctor doesn’t like your questions, then that is when the patietn has the right to walk out of the office. That doctor is not the right one to take care of your health needs.

  21. Caladrais
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    How could Canadian health care possibly be as good as ours? Maybe you Liberals haven’t heard. Some Canadians speak FRENCH. Now I’ve heard that some of those terrorists speak FRENCH, too. So that proves that not only is Canadian healthcare inferior, it’s subversive and probably a threat to all God-fearing President loving patriotic Americans. And we have no idea what those Frog-loving Canadians ar slipping into that cheap medicine. Americans that take that stuff will probably be wearing pearl necklaces and squirting KY Jelly all over the place before you know it!

  22. Posted September 28, 2006 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

    Uh, leave the humor to people who are funny, Original Steve.

  23. political_mom
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    Heartlander, the wait for Canadian doctors, do you know why that is? Because the doctors leave Canada to come to the US to make more money. THAT is the only reason they have a doctor shortage. Emergency surgeries get the same treatment they do in the US. So in the end it’ll even out.

    Also, remember, you only get faster care in the US if you have health insurance, and right now that means 46 million people wait years for their healthcare over Canadians, and then by that time, their conditions are much more severe. OVERALL, Canadians get faster care because of that alone. Insurance companies are making a killing off of us, they’re not hurting for profits at all.

  24. Paul F. Rosell
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

    I think that I am the only person here who has actually sold health insurance.I have heard experts from more than one health insurance company predict that any national health coverage will look like Medicare, with high deductables and co-pays.The government can’t really afford Medicare. Medicare Part B premiums, currently at $88.50 a month, pay less than 25% of the actual cost. Medicare Part A cost the government more than $393 per beneficiary. We are already subsidizing Medicare, for those over 65 and the disabled, and we are already funding Medicaid for the poor.Where will the money come from do do any more?Nursing home costs are a huge unfunded liability for the Medicaid system.Any national system will try hard NOT to put private insurance out of business.There is no way that government, alone, can handle the costs.Any national system will have gaps.

  25. Paul F. Rosell
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 11:21 pm | Permalink

    I think that I am the only person here who has actually sold health insurance.I have heard experts from more than one health insurance company predict that any national health coverage will look like Medicare, with high deductables and co-pays.The government can’t really afford Medicare. Medicare Part B premiums, currently at $88.50 a month, pay less than 25% of the actual cost. Medicare Part A cost the government more than $393 per beneficiary. We are already subsidizing Medicare, for those over 65 and the disabled, and we are already funding Medicaid for the poor.Where will the money come from do do any more?Nursing home costs are a huge unfunded liability for the Medicaid system.Any national system will try hard NOT to put private insurance out of business.There is no way that government, alone, can handle the costs.Any national system will have gaps.

  26. Paul F. Rosell
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 11:24 pm | Permalink

    political mom, you dont understand insurance.Companies must report profits, reserves, margins, expenses.There is no way you can force a company to operate at a loss.The number of insurance company failures shows, by itself, that running an insurance company is not an easy way to make money.—–By the way, the reason Canadian drugs are so cheap, or at least part of the reason: Class Action law suits are not allowed in Canada!

  27. Joe Williams
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 11:33 pm | Permalink

    I agree with you Paul. The Federal Government cannot afford to provide universal health care coverage. It would be terriably expensive. Medicaid and Medicare, which are for the seniors and the poor already consumer over 60% of the Federal Budget.

    We should probably go off the standard health care coverage system and allow health insurance to be what is really was meant to be. An insurance for unexpected emergencies.

    What we call Health Insurance now is really just a payment plan. Health Insurance is like buying an insurance policy to fill gasolines in our cars. It doesn’t make sense. The only people who make out are the insurance companies themselves.

    I say we go to a pay-for-service system. For most healthy people, you are paying more in health insurance than you are going to get back out of it. Only the very sick and the pill poppers make out in the system (excluding the seniors and poor).

    I remember I decided to go on my own and I opted out of Health Insurance from my employer. A doctor visit cost $60. Bloodwork cost $40. Sterap test $20. Anitbotics $60. (This is about the sickest and most I ever paid in a year). Basically less than $200. Yet my employer would and I would pay more than that a month.

    It’s not all that expensive really.

  28. Paul F. Rosell
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 11:38 pm | Permalink

    I wonder what the malpractice, E and O, and liability insurance costs are for the manufacture of a CPAP mask?

  29. Joe Williams
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 11:38 pm | Permalink

    Paul! That is why I advocate just eliminating the middle man.

    If you’re paying very high premiums, look at opting out and paying on your own. It’s cheaper.

    But the only reason people keep health insurance is for those unexpected emergencies that might pop up. If they just had an insurance plan for that, but for routine medical care service is out of pocket, the health care cost would plummet in this country and become even more affordable. Let the markets do it.

  30. Paul F. Rosell
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 11:46 pm | Permalink

    Joe,I think you are right on the expectation of people.We all have car insurance, but auto insurance doesnt pay for oil changes.High deductable plans are the wave of the future.Most of us can’t afford by-pass surgery, but we can afford to pay for office visits.Insurance should pay for irregular, hard to plan expenses.Things we KNOW we will do every year should not be covered by insurance.——By the way, libs: One of the barriers to national health insurance: Most Union workers would see a DECREASE in coverage if we went to a univeral, single payer plan.——One other point, “Cost Shifting” is a huge problem as well.Cost shifting happens when the uninsured dont pay for their health care — the rest of us pay!Cost shifting also happens when CMS (the government) won’t “assign” a fair price to a procedure.The government forces many, many CMS covered medical procedures to be done at a loss, the expense is passed on to those of us who are not on the government plans.

  31. J R
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

    Ok Joe I call BS.

    You “opted out” of employer insurance? Wow you are stupid.

    The rest of your post is just lies.

    Prove me wrong! Show me a Doctor that takes walk ins with no insurance for $60 appointments. My son’s last was $135!

  32. Joe Williams
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 11:56 pm | Permalink

    This was a number of years ago. 1999-2001 to be precise. Back then the doctor visit was $60. I’m sure it’s $125 now.

    But back then the health insurance portion that I paid was $45 a month. Today it’s $260 (for family).

    I’m on insurance now, because I’m not single. I was back when I opted out.

  33. Joe Williams
    Posted September 28, 2006 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    A correction! The insurance portion that I needed to pay was $45 a month, but I opted out and bank that instead.

  34. heartlander
    Posted September 29, 2006 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    Canadians do come to the U.S. for surgical procedures that are considered elective, and given low priority by Canadian bureaucrats. Huge numbers of them? No, because the out-of-pocket costs are beyond most Canadians ability to afford.

    We used a Canadian clinic in the 1970s to get an antibiotic for our toddler’s ear infection. Primary care there worked, and still does. I’ve worked with Canadian physicians who relocated to the U.S., perhaps to make more money, and others who came here for advanced training and returned home. They’ve told me, there are some services that aren’t available there, in a timely manner, that are available here.

    I talked to a woman in Finland who decided to have an out-of-pocket-paid hip replacement. She wasn’t disabled, but she was in pain, and the government wait-listed her. She decided to bite the personal bullet, and her pain disappeared. She felt she made a wise decision, but not all Finns could afford this, or decided they could, but some pain was acceptable.

    On the other side of the coin, we see increasing numbers of Americans purchasing drugs from Canada and Mexico. Their American doctors support this. It’s only Big Pharma that is objecting. This is why proposals, such as I have mentioned, have been made to change the drug business. It’s hard when Big Pharma has so much money to buy influence in Washington, in expectation of making manifold more profits, selling drugs here at far higher prices than other nations’ citizens have to pay. We little people don’t have the money to move politicians. Maybe we need to mount a massive elderly march on Washington, identify Big Pharma-supporting representatives, and campaign against them on this matter, and democratically create change.

    A universal health plan will not provide all currently-available services, because needs will be prioritized. If we implement it, some mechanism will arise to enable the more affluent to get services that are denied, or greatly delayed, to most people.

    With a greying population, every First World nation either has to pay an ever-growing fraction of its GDP in healthcare costs, or else ration services. The industrializing Third World nations will have to face this issue too over the next half-century.

    I have treated uninsured people, and erased their bills. Why? Because if I alleviated one form of suffering, how could I impose another kind? That would be deranged. I didn’t treat them because they had money, I treated them because society paid for my medical education, and gave me skills to help people.

    I am deeply offended by hospitals and doctors that go after the uninsured using collection agencies to harass them. Why? Firstly, bills for uninsured people are far higher than for insured people, for the same services. Secondly, many of the hospitals are IRS-categorized as “charitable institutions” that pay no property or income taxes. They ARE SUPPOSED to provide care to those who cannot afford it. This is what “charitable” means. Thirdly, I’ve never met a doctor who didn’t enjoy an upper-middle-class living when he/she gave some care away for free. Fourthly, most doctor, sadly not all, actually do this. It’s part of the ethos of professionalism: you do your best for whoever needs your help, regardless of their ability to pay. We take the Hippocratic Oath. An oath is a profession of purpose, which is why doctors are called professionals. The Hippocratic Oath says nothing about making money.

  35. Paul F. Rosell
    Posted September 30, 2006 at 12:31 am | Permalink

    DougCanada Drug Of Kansas is still in operation.Nobody has even threatened to shut them down.They have an office at 352 S. West Street in Wichita.Call them at 945-6330You will give up your right to sue the drug manufacturer if you purchase Canadian drugs, that is part of what makes them cheaper!

  36. Tony
    Posted September 30, 2006 at 12:40 am | Permalink

    Crap, I wish I could afford health insurance…. I have had any health insurance in almost a decade…

  37. Posted September 30, 2006 at 12:45 am | Permalink

    Paul, how insanely stupid are you? Seriously, do you feel it is your need to remark on everything that you are uninformed about? And that appears to be everything.

    Restrictions on the drug ban were just lessened last week and you remark like there was never any restrictions ever? Do you seriously work this hard to remain ignorant? Please, for once, try to educate yourself on the issues before advertising to the world how retarded conservatives are.

  38. Posted September 30, 2006 at 12:47 am | Permalink

    And Paul, you ignorant twit, here’s a news story on something you clearly know absolutely nothing about.

    http://www.kingcountyjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060922/NEWS/609220341

  39. political_mom
    Posted September 30, 2006 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    JR actually that’s correct, my doctor charges 55 dollars for a minor office visit. Any labs, tests, or something more time consuming costs more.

    And yes, hospitals say on the board in the ER they have to treat you even if you can’t pay, but believe me, you’ll pay alright- eventually you’ll pay.

    And it all depends on who your employer is and who you’re insuring as much as you’ll pay. A few years ago for a family plan, it was 500 dollars a month. 1/3 of our net income…and on top of that the deductible and 50% copay, it just wasn’t even feasible to take it.

  40. KO
    Posted October 3, 2006 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    Oh my. I am so sick of the canada vs america health insurance debate by people like yourself .. *coff* an in surance SALESMAN. Have you lived in canada? have you seen a doctor in canada? I have live here a total of 7 yrs. But for 35 yrs prior to that I lived in Canada. I had a longer wait for surgery here on something as simple as my gall bladder than i ever did for a procedure in canada. When i had my last baby in the hospital i was able to stay for 3 extra days to get *rest* to go home to a house full. No, sorry to inform the ignorants, i did not have to bring my own toilet tissue or towels and no i did not have to bring my own tylenol. Cost of the stay? 0 dollars. Then 6 yrs ago i had my son here and i got a 19 thousand dollar bill from via christi. Charging me 5 dollars for tylenol that i DID bring with me and trying to charge me a pile for “breast feeding consultant” I had breast fed 5 children prior to this and did not need it but was told it was “standard” So, sorry propoganda spewers.. you are wrong.. I am asked often what is the difference between the two countries and i always say.. it is safer there due to EVERYONE is eligible for health care. ps… i have lived in 6 provinces and 2 territories there so I am well aware of the differences and still NONE are anywhere close to what the american system is. my advice is preach on something you actually know about.

  41. J R
    Posted October 3, 2006 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

    A very good and informative post KO and welcome to our forum.

  42. Posted October 15, 2006 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

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  43. Posted October 15, 2006 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

    best site

  44. Richard Heckler
    Posted November 11, 2006 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    Big three auto makers would jump up and down with joy. Toyota would consider more jobs for USA auto workers. College students would be very happy. Unions would be happy. It would provide a stiff boost to economic growth as NEW industry would find this as an asset.

    Cost of care would drop about 25% off the top due to less paper work thus less administrative duties. Cost of prescription drugs would drop due to massive purchases from one entity.

    A single-payer system is the answer. An unusually strong editorial in March by the St. Louis Post Dispatch expressed the benefits succinctly: “Employers would no longer be saddled with health care. Workers would no longer worry about health care for themselves or their children. And we could toss the disgraceful private health insurance industry, with its wasteful bureaucracy and inscrutable coverage rules, into the dumpster.”There’s no legitimate excuse for this mess. A program to provide medicines for every single senior could and should be simpler and far less expensive than Bush’s $1.2 trillion scam. Medicare, with its extremely low overhead and an efficient payment system already in place, is the logical conduit for such a program. It could negotiate with drug makers on behalf of every senior to get low prices on all medicines, then pay pharmacists directly for the total cost of prescriptions they fill.

    It’s well-known that our system coldly leaves more than 46 million of us without any health coverage. That’s one in every six Americans, including 8.3 million children.

    If you’re keeping political score, the number of uninsured has jumped by six million under the Bushites’ five-year reign in Washington. More than half of America’s low-wage workers (those paid $20,000 a year or less by such outfits as Wal-Mart, Tyson or McDonald’s) are not covered — and more than half of them are having problems with their families’ medical expenses. Quite a few are paying a heavier price — some 18,000 Americans die unnecessarily each year due to lack of health insurance, roughly the same number who die of stroke, HIV or homicide. Less well-known, however, is the costly burden on millions more who supposedly are “covered” but may suddenly find themselves on the hook for thousands of dollars if they get seriously sick. Here’s how it can happen:* A 20 percent co-pay can quickly become a problem for middle-class workers who, for example, need cancer medicines running $12,000 per month.* A trip to the hospital can leave you with a sickening side effect: having to pay $10,000 or more for treatments that were quietly excluded in your policy’s fine print.* Of the 29 million Americans now in medical debt, 70 percent were insured when their medical bills put them in this situation.Medical bills help drive about a million people into bankruptcy each year — 68 percent of them had health insurance when they filed.

    IT’S SOCIALIZED MEDICINE.Wrong, Limbaugh-breath. Like Medicare, government doesn’t deliver the health care under a single-payer system (SPS) — you still go to your choice of doctors and hospitals. SPS, as the name suggests, is merely a government-run payment system. Instead of you and me paying inflated premiums to profit-seeking insurance giants which then pay our medical bills, SPS eliminates the rip-off overhead of the middleman and pays all of our bills directly to the providers.

    PRIVATE IS ALWAYS BETTER THAN PUBLIC.Not at performing truly public functions, such as assuring health care for all. Presently, up to a third of the health premiums we pay to insurance corporations go not to health care but to their profits, marketing campaigns, CEO pay packages, posh headquarters, lobbying firms, and — most damning — massive bureaucracies whose sole purpose is to try to deny coverage for our medical treatments. With SPS, all of these costs are eliminated — Medicare, for example, spends only 2 percent of its revenues on administrative costs.

    WE CAN’T AFFORD TO COVER EVERYONE.We can’t afford NOT to have universal care. When today’s uninsured millions get sick, they end up at the ER — the most expensive care there is. Also, they get no preventative care, which is far cheaper than paying for the serious illnesses that they later develop. A decade ago, Taiwan switched from a U.S.-style corporatized system to a Canadian-style SPS. It quickly went from 60 percent of its people covered to practically all — with virtually zero increase in overall health spending.

    THERE’LL BE WAITING LISTS.Hello! Have you ever tried to get a quick appointment with your family doctor — especially at night or on weekends? Only a third of Americans have same-day access to their own doctor. It takes days, even if you have insurance — ask an uninsured American about waiting lists! And forget about trying to see a specialist within a month of calling. No country with SPS has a waiting list for emergency care and few have them for primary care. Waits for other procedures are almost always for elective surgeries (liposuction, face lifts, tennis elbow, nonessential MRIs, etc.).

    Why not now?The American people overwhelmingly support a major, progressive shift from corporatized “care” to universal care. Recent polls show consistent agreement on the need for real action:

    * Everyone has the right to quality, affordable care (90 percent) — Lake Research poll of U.S. Women, 12/05* Average Americans spend too much on health care (65 percent); government spends too little (70 percent) — Pew poll, 3/06.* Our current system has so much wrong with it that either “fundamental changes” are needed (56 percent) or we must “completely rebuild it” (34 percent) — CBS/New York Times poll, 1/06.* Government should guarantee health coverage for every American “even if it means raising taxes” (65 percent) — Pew poll, 5/05. Likewise, 64 percent of doctors favor a single-payer health plan, according to a 2004 Harvard Medical School survey of Massachusetts physicians. Even corporate executives — from General Motors to Wal-Mart — are publicly wailing about the high cost and low coverage of America’s current system (though none are providing the leadership to put America on the right track to a national plan of universal coverage).

    A single-payer system is the answer. An unusually strong editorial in March by the St. Louis Post Dispatch expressed the benefits succinctly: “Employers would no longer be saddled with health care. Workers would no longer worry about health care for themselves or their children. And we could toss the disgraceful private health insurance industry, with its wasteful bureaucracy and inscrutable coverage rules, into the dumpster.”Many good grassroots groups are pushing this fundamentally moral issue into the elections of ‘06, ‘08 and beyond, confronting Republican lawmakers on their shameful fealty to corporate greed, and Democrats on their appalling wimpiness. We can achieve the goal of good-quality health care for all — and advance America toward the greatness of its democratic potential.http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/37624/

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