Given the anger surrounding her polarizing role in the Florida recount fiasco of 2000, you’d think U.S. Rep. Katherine Harris might now want to project an image of comity.
Evidently not.
Separation of church and state is “a lie we have been told,” Harris said in an interview with a religious journal last week.
Lest her remarks be misconstrued, she added: “If you’re not electing Christians, then in essence you are going to legislate sin.”
Harris is running for a Florida Senate seat now held by a Democrat. Many Republicans in that state — including Gov. Jeb Bush — don’t think she can win. With pronouncements like that, neither do I.
Posted by Dave Knadler
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She can’t even keep any staff because she’s so mean…devoted right wingers can’t take her. And yet, some still don’t believe this woman was capable of frauding the election results. It is scary that these fascists have so many supporters. If there was anything so unAmerican and unPatriotic…it’s people like them..who wish for us to live in a theocracy rather than a democracy. These people are more of a threat to American values than terrorists.
Quoted from Bill Sizemore’s News with Views website.
“Most conservatives are aware that the words “separation of church and state” appear no where in the U.S. Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, or the Federalist Papers. They are not the law; neither are they part of the legislative history of the law. The doctrine or separation of church and state is a fabrication of blatant liberal, anti-Christian, dishonest, activist judges. In fact, the words,”separation of church and state” are only words taken out of context from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson. They exist nowhere in the laws of our nation.The First Amendment says that congress shall make no law establishing a religion. It doesn’t say that states cannot establish a religion or observe religious holidays. It doesn’t say that cities, counties, or school districts cannot show respect for the Bible or Christianity. The First Amendment doesn’t imply in even the vaguest way that it is unconstitutional for a city to erect a manger scene in the town square at Christmas or for a school teacher to offer up a prayer to Almighty God at a graduation ceremony or before daily classes begin. You cannot get that out of the First Amendment, even if you stretch.
It’s right there, plain as day. The First Amendment only limits Congress; no one else. Under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, Congress cannot establish a religion or prohibit the free exercise of religion. But, you say, the Founders must have wanted to prevent governments at all levels from showing preference for any one religion over others. Not so. The states would not have given Congress any authority over their actions regarding such matters.”
“If you’re not electing Christians, then in essence you are going to legislate sin.”Notice the words “in essence”.She didn’t say it absolutely.
TM–
Thanks for that clarification.
Next time I’m asked to give a graduation speech, I’m going to shout at the top of my lungs the Islamic call to prayer–
“ALLAH AKABAR! ALLAH AHHALLAHAA AKBAR!”
“In the name of Allah, the In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful
All praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the Worlds.
The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. Master of the Day of Judgment. Thee (alone) we worship; of Thee (alone) we seek help. Show us the straight path.The path of those whom Thou hast favored; Not (the path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray. A’meen”
I’m sure if you and your kids are in the audience, you’ll be supporting me all the way and joing me in this Islamic prayer, right?
“the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion . . .” John Adams, Treaty of Tripoli, ratified by the Senate 1797
Harris vowed she would spend all of the 10 million dollars her father left her upon her death to win the seat if necessary.
Great, make her spend it all at http://www.makeherspenditall.com/
This woman is plainly nuts.When she could not raise any money, her own party told her not to run.BUT NOOOOOOO!!!!Sister Christian knows better than EVERYONE in this country when it comes to good and EEE-VILLE.She’s so certain she knows that she pledged to spend ALL of the money that her VERY wealthy family was giving her.But wait…to add to the intrigue, her siblings (who also think she’s clearly insane), had to come forth and tell this delusional megalomaniac that the money was NOT left to her!(a boo and a hiss from the heavenly multitudes in the background)Sooo, our heroine, the self-proclaimed political warrior of God, has vowed to spend every last penny of the measly millions in her own private account!
Onward Christian soldier!God loves you!(everybody else thinks you’re nuts)
shew…I thought all the religious idiots were in Kansas.
Religion belongs in the church and in your heart only. Wanna know why? because not everyone has the same beliefs as you!
TM would you be outraged if your students teacher made them say a prayer to Vishnu before every class, or say “Praise Ala” if they get an A? It serves no purpose other than to indoctronate the students. Religious belief is purely a personal CHOICE, just because you believe something doesn’t mean you get to legislate it on everyone. If you want a country ruled by religion then go to the middle east, it seems to be working great for them (hahahahah).
Her siblings are saying, Uh, wait a minute there, Katy. We have something to say about how that is spent. Apparently daddy left $100 million or so (sigh, remember when that used to be real money?) and mother is in control of it. If I was a vendor to the campaign, I think I’d ask for cash up front.
I liked my version better,yours isn’t sarcastic enough.Do better next time.
Sorry Tracy, notice we posted at the same time. Didn’t mean to copy your creativity.
This is generic enough for any religion. From Alice A. Bailey:
From the point of Light within the Mind of God Let Light stream forth into the minds of men. Let Light descend on Earth.
From the point of Love within the Heart of God Let Love stream forth into the hearts of men. May Christ return to Earth.
From the centre where the Will of God is known Let purpose guide the little wills of men -The purpose which the Masters know and serve.
From the centre which we call the race of men Let the Plan of Love and Light work out, And may it seal the door where evil dwells.
Let Light and Love and Power restore the Plan on Earth.
There is a reason the first amendment to the constitution says congress shall pass no laws establishing religion. That would mean STATE congresses too. The VERY first amendment. It was obviously a big issue, as most of them were free masons and Deists.
There are many many many papers that define the thoughts of religion and government by the founding fathers. It’s those very principles that has made our nation so great. It’s probably the only reason why we’re all not puritans right this very moment. It gave you, TM, the right to have the religion you so boldly want to impose on the rest of us.
TM shows that she’s not an American, she’s a fascist theology supporter.
Thanks Courtney.Actually I was referring to the post by Dennis.Not near over the top enough.You know, that Belushi on SNL kinda really, really sarcastic stuff.
“May Christ return to Earth” sounds pretty Christian to me…
Mom, YOU ROCK!!I’m glad you’re here,
Uh, yeah. I stupid.
There’s other stanza’s that are more generic, and I forgot about that one.Please substitute the word HE/SHE, if you like!
I think Harris and Coulter are secret lovers.
CapnAmerica:Would you approve of a High Priest of Satan coming to one of your son’s or daughter’s graduation and Praying to his lord satan during the commencement ceremony?Since your intelligence is progressive, why wouldn’t you have all religions represented at commencements, every National Day of Prayer, every National Prayer Breakfast, local sports events etc.?? Don’t leave anyone out, except for the Christians because they’re offensive. After all, we are a Nation not founded on Christian principles. Well, we used to be, but with people like you who have your world view growing in mass numbers in the U.S., we will soon be a Nation of religions with the EXCEPTION being Christianity.
Nice try, Capn, but TM is absolutely right. Under the original federalist doctrine, states could be religious. Let’s see, Massachusetts, Connecticut and Rhode Island were founded as religious colonies. Did they think, in co-founding a republic that the Supreme Court would quash their views? Not. And it didn’t–for 163 years.
As for the “Allah Akabar”, you may be Jewish, and in any case I doubt you would pronounce this. If you attend WSU, which was founded by Congregationalists, without whose efforts there wouldn’t BE a WSU today, if a state law allowed you to make a Judeo-Christian expression only at graduation, that is a state power under the original intent of the Constitution.
You tend to make very, very sensible points. This is not one of them.
Do I want to hear more valedictorians like the one in Las Vegas, make pronouncements of their fundamentalist Christian faith? I can live with it. A profession of Islamic-heritage inspiration? That doesn’t bother me. A talk about an Orthodox, Conservative or Reform upbringing and values instilled? That’s fine with me.
You’re “Allah Akabar” is, unlike most of your thoughtful posts, an exercise in sophistry. The cheap side of rhetoric. Because, it’s like saying “Black Power!” stripped of a larger contextual message. I don’t think any Muslim valedictorian (or African American) would say this alone. Do you?
political mom,
it DOES NOT MEAN “state congresses too”. I don’t even know of any state legislative bodies that are called “state congress”. Give me an example of one.
Did anybody else quit reading TM a long time ago?Is it just me?
I love all of the name calling.You people don’t know me.May all the conservatives leave all of you to yourselves and your mindless, unprincipled, immoral, unintelligent, progressive, liberal ignorance.
Yeah, theocracy is completely nuts. Unfortunately there seem to be a lot of nuts running loose these days.Historically, theocracies begin and end in horrific blood-baths. The one these nuts are proposing will be no different; they will have to get rid of non-believers immediately, lest they be contaminated, and this will degenerate into a lethal argument over who are TRUE belivers and who aren’t. That’s the way of all theocracies.
Tracy
From another blog:
This November election really is a referendum on the concept of self-government.
If a government dominated by one Party can lie a nation into war, conduct that war with ineptitude unmatched since Custer, alienate world opinion, increase the threat of terrorist attack, run up huge deficits while enriching its special friends, triple the price of gas — and allow a major American city to drown — and suffer no electorial consequences, then the democratic system of self-government has become dysfunctional.
In a functional system of self-government, the only issue would be whether ANY Republican candidate for office would have any prospect to be elected — short of massive voter fraud. Republicans should get fewer votes than the Prohibition Party candidates, let alone the Democrats. If such misconduct and ineptitude does not bring electorial disaster to the Republican Party, then our system is not working. After all, the absolute prerequisite for a system of government working is its ability to reward good performance and punish bad. By comparison to Bush, Louis XVI was a model leader.
Posted by: KC Cicero | August 29, 2006 at 12:18 PM
Good post Jed.And GREAT TIMING.
To all:I highly recommend reading Tracy.She is BRILLIANT!!
Ed, I agree.Other wingers here say:Let them eat cake!
I grew up in a state that didn’t have school prayer or any bible lessons. I think that was a very good thing. I never heard a valedictorian speech. On the other hand, I don’t have a problem with valedictorians giving their opinions.
I mean, I never heard a valectory speech with religous encomiums.
I wouldn’t approve of any religious content at a graduation. It’s a schools, not a church. If the validictorian wants to mention it in her speach, then go for it, she has earned the right. But not saying a prayer just for the sake of saying a prayer. As Jed wrote, running peoples lives by religion has never worked.
When anger rises, think of the consequences……..Confucius
TM,”I love all of the name calling.You people don’t know me.”And you obviously don’t know us, and have no intention of getting to know us. If you and your cadre have nothing but propaganda to spew, go somewhere else to do it. We on this blog prefer people who actually think for themselves.
Good one, Ed! Keep the faith, baby!
Harris campaign awaits her cashMonths after the GOP U.S. Senate candidate pledged to use her millions in the race, she has yet to ante up.By ANITA KUMAR, Times Staff WriterPublished August 26, 2006(St. Petersburg, FL Times)TAMPA – After months of hearing members of even her own party second-guess her run for the U.S. Senate, Katherine Harris said she would pump $10-million of her own money into her financially strapped campaign.
In an emotional announcement on national TV in March, Harris said she would use every penny her late father had left her.
Minutes later, while still in the New York studio where she made the announcement, Harris received a call from her sister. She and their brother were furious that she had not told them she was going to spend family money on her campaign, according to her former senior consultant Ed Rollins, who was with her that night.
In the days that followed, several former staffers, including Rollins, said Harris learned she would not directly receive any inheritance from her father. Instead, his assets, reported to be as much as $100-million, were left to her mother, Harriet.
Harris, a millionaire in her own right, quietly regrouped and changed her plan, telling employees and supporters that she was going to liquidate everything she had to fund the campaign.
“I’m selling everything I have,” she said repeatedly. Harris donated $3-million to her campaign, though she later took back $100,000 – a move that fueled speculation that she did not have the $10-million.
Now, five months later, Republican operatives and political watchers say the Harris campaign may have seen the last of her personal resources. They doubt she will put more money into a race almost no one expects her to win.
“She’s crazy if she puts in $10-million of her own money,” said Brian Ballard, a Republican fundraiser in Tallahassee.
“She might as well put it in the middle of the street and light a match,” said Pat Roberts, a Republican lobbyist and longtime Harris friend.
Harris refuses to answer questions about the money, and rarely mentions the pledge in her campaign speeches anymore.
“That’s a process question, that’s a matter of strategy,” she said recently. “I’m not going to tip my hand.”
Continued….
I think someone could make a ton of money selling genuine Katherine Harris scarecrows. I have no doubt the birds would take one look and split,but there is a real possibility that it would scare the crops enough to inhibit growth! Hmmmm..I guess you could order the luminious model and get 24 hour coverage also.
I hope kitty Kat Harris does spend her very last dime humiliating herself.
When she is broke, she will have to look for other work.
If they ever do a remake of the Wizard of Oz, Harris would make a good wicked witch!
“I’ll get you Al Gore! And your little majority too!”
I think it’s gone for now,shhh!Quietly begin on page 38 of our evil antichrist handbooks now…..
Oh HI JR!!Come on in, we’re havin’ a godless heathen meeting…glad you can join us!
What happens when you let people who think they speak for God rule a country:
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/breaking_news/15388485.htm
Joseph Kony, leader of the Lord’s Resistance Army, mixed northern politics with religious mysticism, declaring himself a Christian prophet fighting to rule this country of 26 million people by the Ten Commandments.
U.N. officials estimate Kony’s guerrillas kidnapped 20,000 children in the past 19 years, turning the boys into soldiers and the girls into sex slaves for rebel commanders. Rebel attacks and atrocities drove 1.7 million people to flee.
Back to the thread topic, Katherine Harris is so divisive that Karl Rove asked her not to run. And, of course, Harris gladly put the interests of her party ahead of her own – not!
I recall when Katherine stopped the 2000 Florida recount and proclaimed that Florida went for Bush and the 2000 election went to Bush. I don’t think any secretary of state is empowered to make this proclaimation. But, Harris was the head of Bush’s Florida campaign so maybe she was embued with special authority — no conflict of interest there – no, none at all!
And, let’s not forget that Ron Throunbrugh (KS Secretary of State) invited Harris to Kansas so that she could be honored by Republican party officials.
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2001/jan/28/courage_harris_says/
I hope the Repubs run many candidates like Harris. I further hope that many of these candidates hire TM as their campaign advisors. What a wonderful recipe that would be!!! This platform and strategy worked soooo well for Connie Morris.
Jed:And your left-wing, liberal, progressive dialogue isn’t propaganda??You people are so predictable.I read so many of your posts and you all sound like a broken record.What I can’t figure out is where you actually get your information?You couldn’t possibly have thought up that putrid drivel all by yourselves. But then again, when a man is left to his own lack of intelligence, he’ll regurgitate anything.Must have been a brilliant person who thought up your ideology, philosophy, morality, standards or whatever you want to call what you live by.I know, it is unlike me to speak this way. Maybe a taste of your own medicine does a person good.
And back to the topic, as far as Harris goes, can I just say this:Bill Clinton!!Bill Clinton!!
The United States was founded on Christian values, but not nessasarily Christian Religion.A good portion of the founding fathers were diests- they believed in God, but couldn’t agree on much more than that. Thomas Jefferson is an obvious example of that. Try reading the leaders between Adams and Jefferson, and other writings of the time.
How should that affect policy? Although Jefferson was not a Christian, he attended Christian services that were held in the Capital building during his administration.
This is an argument that has raged for years. I think it is dangerous to oversecularize our nation- an expolsion of all religion. I think it is also dangerous to legislate as if you think that God is always on your side. I think that, as in many cases, their is a moderate ground to be found.
“It’s right there, plain as day. The First Amendment only limits Congress; no one else. Under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, Congress cannot establish a religion or prohibit the free exercise of religion. But, you say, the Founders must have wanted to prevent governments at all levels from showing preference for any one religion over others. Not so. The states would not have given Congress any authority over their actions regarding such matters.” – TM
“it DOES NOT MEAN “state congresses too”. – ‘heartlander’
It is apparent that TM and ‘heartlander’ have never even bothered to read the entire document they quote. They obviously have never heard of the Fourteenth Amendment, and the incorporation doctrine. Here, maybe this will help alleviate your “mindless, unprincipled, immoral, unintelligent, right-wing fascist ignorance”
“No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws”
I’ll say this real slow so the wingnuts on here can understand:thatmeansthatwhatthefederalgovernmentcan’tdo,thestatescan’tdo.ItalsomeansthattheBillofRights(andthusthe”noestablishmentclause”oftheFirstAmendment)areapplieddirectlytothestategovernments.
Listen, I know regurgitating radical right theocrat talking points is easier than thinking, but try to do a little research before you post – you’re making yourselves look bad.
Preach not to others what they should eat, but eat as becomes you, and be silent…..Epictetus
“I know, it is unlike me to speak this way.”
No. TM, it is PRECISELY you to speak this way. You and Joseph Kony’s Lords Resistence Army would get along fine.
Hey TM?
You wanna know why it is SO important to have a distinct line separating church and state? Look no further than your own Immanuel Baptist chuurch!
Still feeling the love for brother Terry are ya? I see the regular ad in Saturdays religion pages for Immanuel has changed a bit! It isn’t for Immanuel anymore it is for Fox’s Summit church! Hey and Summit is also sponsoring Fox’s radio rant which Immanuel did not. How about that!
Imagine government branches and hierarchies dominated by petty squabbles among the faithful should the separation between church and state be blurred or erased. Ever looked at what used to be Yugoslavia? That’ll give you an idea!
A question for you TM.
I do not care if your child prays in school so long as it is not in a disruptive manner. I would rather my child NOT be encouraged to pray in school. Is that ok with you? Or is your real agenda that my boy needs “wisdom” from such as you? Answer honestly.
J R: “Imagine government branches and hierarchies dominated by petty squabbles among the faithful”
Can we say political parties?
Religion isn’t the root of all evil in the world. People are. Their will be petty squables in any organization, not just religion.
As for the “Summit Church” advertisment. I saw it too, and I’m glad the lime light will be off of Immanuel and fully on Terry Fox.
Damn JR, I thought maybe it would go away if it got hungry.
Imagine government branches and hierarchies dominated by petty squabbles among the faithful should the separation between church and state be blurred or erased.
You mean like the petty squabbles between the Republicans and the Democrats?
You know what I think Democrats and Republicans should do? Kill themselves, and leave the running of America to people who give a damn about America and not some bullshit political ideology.
I am trying to moderate my discourse with the faithful. Folks like TM make that problematic. I didn’t mean to pick on Immanuel or religion and I know that we already have partisan POLITICAL squabbling at a level that is tearing the country apart.
But imagine if folks who claim they hear the words of God had more political influence then they do. It is hard to present an opposition to someone who thinks they are on a divine assignment.
Will: Hey I said that first!
I’m crying on the inside.
J R, I agree, that’s where comment’s like Harris’ become dangerous.
Even Lincoln said at one point that he didn’t claim to have God on his side, he only hoped that God would judge his actions fairly in the future. And few people look back now and think that Lincoln was a real bad guy.
JR,Point taken. I guess when people in general, irregardless of wether they are religious or not, are going to result to “squabbling” when they disagree on things, which we as human beings inevitably always do, as human history surely attests.
JB,Sorry I beat you to it.
Didn’t Jesus warn us to watch out for false teachers/prophets? (Or should that be PROFITS?) I wonder if He was referring to people like Pharisee Phred Phelps; Terry Fox, and TM?
TM,”A man is always righteous in his own eyes.”
I don’t remember the verse. I am sorry for my rude and uncouth behavior. I am feeling very angry about the actions of our country. I apologize for taking it out on you. If I hurt you, it’s not what I wanted.Don’t pay no mind to these yokels!They are so enamored with their own worldview that any deviation from their concept of the perfect society is tantamount to being a heresy in their pseudo-religious ideology of uninhibited libertarianism. As a result the possibility having any semblance of intelligent dialogue with them is slim to none. Bottom line TM is if you’re not a pro-abortion, leftist libertarian then you aren’t a part of the “in” crowd around here. It is comparable to being in a clique in high school, which I believe you would have already guessed given the puerile behavior of some of the esteemed personalities here.
This is about the Constitution, not about Terry Fox.Leave him out of this, his issues are on another thread.I agree that Kat Harris’ comment borders on dangerous ground, but she in no way stated it as an absolute, just “in essence.”
UH OH, gettin’ scolded by Will now.Who appointed you judge of anything?Wasn’t any of us pueriles.
Puzzling TM
Earlier you defend Harris but now agree that her comments are dangerous? Well, why not have saved the step?
I don’t dispute the value of faith in society so long as it remains that. It is when an agenda is pusued to get a society in faith that I get a little nervous.
I only used the Fox issue as an example of how takes on faith can divide even a group of a few thousand people much more a society of millions.
Here, here.Let me help you out a little, Willie.
I think this is more descriptive of the behavior you disdain:
Main Entry: soph·o·mor·ic
Function: adjective
1 : conceited and overconfident of knowledge but poorly informed and immature2 : of, relating to, or characteristic of a sophomore
Just exercising my First Amendment rights! You know the ones your type bitches about all the time while your fucking government deprives the rights of Lebanese school children to be alive!
Yeah Tracy I think Will is casting a few stones from inside his glass house! No one can be unaware of the history CrusaderX /CrusaderWill/Will
Hey Will you still get pretty strident sometimes but I will credit you that you are doing a little better until you throw out something like that last.
Ah it doesn’t so much matter all this I guess. Harris has no chance. Even if she did come up in the polls, all ya need is a bucket of water to dispatch her!
Somebody ought to put Harris back into Sean Hannity’s gimp chest before she opens her mouth again. I believe the only reason she got elected to office is because everyone knows Floridians can’t vote correctly.
Get her and Bush out of office so America can have a Separation of Smirk and Flake.
Speaking of high horses…
Ugh! You’re not gonna give me one of those tired old patronizing Blog Critic JR speeches are you!?
Cuz I could do without those, thank you very much!
ooooh!, The EFF word.Will, what the hell are you going off here about that for?I don’t approve of violence or this administration.And what does this thread have to do with Lebanon?
Despite all the analsys that we can give to Harris’ comment, whether or not she said it as fact or in essence, I think it is easy to see that it was a plain stupid thing to say if the women wants to get elected.
Ofcourse, maybe that’s just it. She knows that she’s going to lose, and she wants to turn herself into a martyr.
The only way the American public will truly awaken to the horrors of our “ally” in the Middle East is when we are invaded by people who drop bombs on our schools and hospitals on the pretense of “survival” and “self-defense!”
“Would you approve of a High Priest of Satan coming to one of your son’s or daughter’s graduation and Praying to his lord satan during the commencement ceremony?”
No, I would not, TM. And since I don’t want to pray to Satan, I don’t think anybody else should have to pray to my God either.
This is the theory of the enlightenment. Before that was the medieval view that men felt that their truth was truth and they were duty bound to ram it down everyone else’s throat.
So as soon as the Purtians were freed themselves of persecution in England by coming to the future US, they promptly started persecuting others for not being Puritan enough.
“Don’t leave anyone out, except for the Christians because they’re offensive.”
I’m not for including all. I’m for excluding all.
I don’t think Christians are offensive; I go to church every Sunday.
Episcopal . . . we have a gay bishop now.
The simple fact is that you want to ram your version of Christianity down everybody else’s throat.
Sorry, not in my country you don’t.
“You couldn’t possibly have thought up that putrid drivel all by yourselves. But then again, when a man is left to his own lack of intelligence, he’ll regurgitate anything.”
Wow, TM, way to win over the opposition!
As usual, TM has reverted to the vinegar instead of honey tactic. If I were a fly, I wouldn’t fly too close. She’s probably hiding a flyswatter behind her back. This is a perfect example of why Christ was able to win over others, but folks like TM can’t.
Oh, and by the way, TM, Tracy is a HE. See? Anybody can make that mistake.
Rumsfeld on Tuesday:
Rumsfeld portrayed the administration’s critics as suffering from “moral and intellectual confusion” about what threatens the nation’s security.
Addressing veterans at the American Legion’s national convention, Rumsfeld recited what he called the lessons of history, including the failed efforts to appease the Adolf Hitler regime in the 1930s.
“I recount this history because once again we face the same kind of challenges in efforts to confront the rising threat of a new type of fascism” he said.
Rumsfeld spoke to an American Legion convention as part of a coordinated White House strategy, in advance of the fifth anniversary of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on U.S. soil, aiming to take the offensive against administration critics at a time of doubt about the future of Iraq and how long U.S. troops must remain there.
Rumsfeld recalled a string of recent terrorist attacks, from the 9/11 attacks to bombings in Bali, London and Madrid, and said it should be obvious to anyone that terrorists must be confronted, not appeased.
“But it is apparent that many have still not learned history’s lessons,” he said, adding that part of the problem is that the American news media have tended to emphasize the negative rather than the positive.
No one can be unaware of the history CrusaderX /CrusaderWill/Will
What are you implying by that? Let me inform you on a little fact of life JR, people change. Change is a sign of growth. So forgive me if I disagree with your political opinions on how socialism is the band-aid solution to the human condition. I for one have looked at France and I am not impressed!
Oh, and I’m puerile!!Is that gender specific?Will–CHILL.
Speaking of those Puritans and perfect examples…
From June through September of 1692, nineteen men and women, all having been convicted of witchcraft, were carted to Gallows Hill, a barren slope near Salem Village, for hanging. Another man of over eighty years was pressed to death under heavy stones for refusing to submit to a trial on witchcraft charges. Hundreds of others faced accusations of witchcraft; dozens languished in jail for months without trials until the hysteria that swept through Puritan Massachusetts subsided.http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/salem/SALEM.HTM
The above is an example of what radical religion can lead to.
Watch The Crucible. It’s quite enlightening.
Whoever this willy dude is, man he’s got some issues.
Nah! I don’t think so man. It’s just the Man trying to keep him down, man! Man I tell ya man times are hard man and all that jazz man but that Will dude man he’s just misunderstood man because the Man lies about him man, make love not war man.
Up town, down townLittle Willy, Willy drives them wild with his run-around styleInside, outsideWilly sends them silly with his star-shine shimmy shuffle smileMama done chase Willy down through the hallBut laugh, Willy laugh, he don’t care at allHey down, stay down, stay down, down
‘Cause little Willy, Willy won’t go homeBut you can’t push Willy roundWilly won’t go, try tellin’ everybody but, oh noLittle Willy, Willy won’t go home
An alleged “Divine Assignment” can be refuted with God’s own word.That’s where wisdom comes in a valuable asset.You have to be careful with people who say such things and the context in which it is being said.There will always be those “Christians” who are right in their own eyes regardless of what God’s word or anyone else says. Those are the ones to be afraid of.I would agree that not every politician has to be Christian and there are better ways to impact our community for good, however, if the Christian running for public office truly sees it as an office of SERVICE to his/her country, then you can probably, not always, but probably be assured they are genuine. On the other hand, if they believe they are “Divinely appointed”, then that is refuteable.That’s a majority of the problem we have now is that there are too many self-serving people in pubic office instead of “others” oriented people serving.
CapnAmerica:It’s all about what you believe in the Bible and what you choose to exclude.I believe all of it and that it is inerrant.
TM-If you took all the time you waste on this crap, and applied it to something positive, then maybe you wouldn’t walk around looking at the world through a glass navel.
“Rumsfeld portrayed the administration’s critics as suffering from “moral and intellectual confusion” about what threatens the nation’s security.”
As I said on another thread, nothing morally confused about invading a country on false pretenses to steal its oil wealth. Nothing-at-all!
Love it when Rummy lets me know I am on the right track!
TM – “There will always be those “Christians” who are right in their own eyes regardless of what God’s word or anyone else says. Those are the ones to be afraid of.”
I agree. Go look in a mirror – you just described yourself.
“Watch The Crucible. It’s quite enlightening.”
I think by analogy, The Crucible was Arthur Miller’s comment on Joseph McCarthy’s investigations into “Unamerican activities”. The same McCarthy whom Ann Coulter was so impressed with.
I prefer Schindler’s List. It shows the depths of human depravity when a secular progressive society accomplishes its task in ridding itself of those in which the secular humanists deem “unfit” for participation in society!
Well she sure did her part to keep the ’sinners’ out of their rightful office!
Ben Huie:You see how easy it is to twist someone’s words against them when there is no absolute authority to follow.
gster:You are judging me.Be very careful what you say.You do not know what I do for others nor will I tell you or anyone. You are on dangerous ground without proof.
TM-It’s time to clean the glass navel- you’re halluciating again, or grab your left ear with the same hand, the right ear, etc., and pull like hell – you’ve got nothing to lose!
Yes TM; I have seen many times how you twist things. And now I see your threats against gster.
Have any of you enlarged that picture of her? I think shes really a MAN!!!
TM-The problem is that you can “prove” anything with the Bible. It has been used to “prove” that slavery was God’s will, atleast until society changed, then so did the Word. Everyone reads something different in the Bible, to say that someones view is correct is ignorant and worthless.
GaryC-Yes I looked- how am I supposed to sleep after that? Looks like the Bride of Frankenstein!
She is actually hot in her own way.
*Oh great! Just opened up a can of worms.* ;)
Yeah, if you’re into tri-colored Bondo!
LOL! That’s funny! :D
Heh! I’d take Monica over her any day.
TM,”What I can’t figure out is where you actually get your information?”
Well. I read for a minimum of two hours a day, I watch the news (several sources); whenever I don’t understand what’s going on, I have a good library where I can research it’s history. And then (I realize the concept is foreign to you) I think about it. I do that by myself; I don’t let anyone else think for me. Yes, it’s kind of scary at first, since you have to abandon all that comfortable bullshit you’ve been fed all your life, but try it! Who knows, you might come to like that feeling of freedom it gives you.
TM,”Be very careful what you say.You do not know what I do for others nor will I tell you or anyone.”
Ooh, another threat from the followers of the prince of peace! Well, it’s nothing new, since I’ve had christians offer to shoot me, or firebomb my house, or even kill my dog! Those threats didn’t stop me from speaking my mind, and yours won’t either. At least we all know what kind of christian you are now!
Jed…
BOO!
The big bad Cristians are coming to get ya. Better leave the bunker and go hide over at Tiller’s! Run, Jed, Run!!!
NoJo,You’re going to have to do a lot better than that.
RUUUUNNNN!!!
Courtney:Slavery in the time of Christ was different than what we think of slavery. It doesn’t mean it was right nor should it have been practiced or condoned, but it was different. I will need to refresh my memory on the Greek definition of the word “slavery” within the context of its use in the scriptures.Exegesis and the meaning of the original language is very important so as to not take the scripture out of context.Yes, many wrong things can be proven with the scriptures, but they can also be refuted with the correct exegesis of the scriptural context.
Jed:I’ve not threatened anyone.People must be careful when they make judgmental statements and they can’t back it up with proof by either knowing me personally or with discipline from the scriptures.
Calm down Jed.I did not threaten anyone.The Church and State, civil rights, morality, etc. all are polarizing issues, most of us would agree, but I would never threaten anyone.I certainly would pray for them, but not threaten them.
“The ultimate universal truth regarding human existance, is that human existance is meaningless. It is therefore the noblest cause of action for a human being to become aware of the futility of his actions and the meaninglessness of his life, and to end his own pointless existance.”
-Jean Paul Sartre-
(On Existentialism )
TM,You are right- slavery has changed. In the 16th century, catholics enslaved protestants, and protestants enslaved catholics. One of my ancestors was kidnapped by protestants in Belfast and sold into slavery in Boston. Africans became the favored target of slavers because both catholics and protestants could agree that they weren’t christian, and therefore up for grabs.
TM-Remember, when looking at the world throuh a glass navel, you can only see in 2 dimensions, not 3. This can lead to a warped outlook, as in your case!
Jed:Yes, you are right and now we revisit the verbal picture of how the depravity of man can diminish, disrespect, abuse and slaughter other men.Not a pretty picture and certainly not anything I am proud of from American history.
TM,”People must be careful when they make judgmental statements and they can’t back it up with proof by either knowing me personally or with discipline from the scriptures.”
Isn’t that what you’ve been doing to several members of this blog? I seem to remember a particularly vicious attack on my friend Farmgrrl on another thread! Further, your statement to Gster is definitely threatening. If you didn’t intend that, maybe you had better make clear to him, and the rest of us, exactly what you meant by it.
Jed,
“Alright. We’ll give land to the niggers and the chinks, but we don’t want the Irish.”
Blazing Saddles
Jed’s Irish? No wonder he’s always pissed off all the time!
TM,”Yes, you are right and now we revisit the verbal picture of how the depravity of man can diminish, disrespect, abuse and slaughter other men.”
You must not forget that the people who did that read the same bible you do, and were just as assured as you are that what they were doing was god’s will.
Now I understand! I’d be genetically predisposed to being pissed off too if I came from a cold windswept country where it rains 6 out of 7 days a week! Jed, might you by any chance be a redhead?
Will,Actually, the Irish is only a small part of my genetic heritage. There’s also Danish, Dutch and Scottish in there, and probably much else.
Will,No, I’m not a redhead- mostly I’m bald!
Yes but are you a redhead?
Jed:It was a caution from a spiritual standpoint not to judge me.
KFG had been attacking me for two weeks and I let it go because I knew why she did it.KFG does not know me, but she has made a mockery of God and HIS word, something of which I hold as precious.She is also a precious soul in the sight of God, but I was not going to continue to listen to her disrespect me and the Bible, when she does NOT know either one. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. I made myself clear about what I believed and all she could do was talk trash and hatred.She never made a point, just trash and hatred.
Oh, ok
Why? What did she say to Kentucky Fried Girl?
Goodnight all.
Why are leftists so quick to comment on the looks of conservative women? I am no repuke but people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones!
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
Sorry but I am a man and being such I think with my stomach. And whenever I see Farmgirl post her initials under KFG, I always think of KFC and that deelicious chicken of the Colonel’s.
TM,Of course Farmgrrl was attacking you, since you had been relentlessly attacking her and her friends. And my friends too. And then having the gall to say it wasn’t you attacking her, it was god!Hey, baby, it’s christians like you that make decent people want nothing to do with your religion.
Will,Farmgrrl’s chicken ain’t so bad either- head to Hays and try it sometime!
I think the things that TM said to me show her to be a bully, and intolerant of anything other than the “approved” view.And it is clear who does the approving! I wouldn’t want to live in her world, but I doubt if I would have choice- after all, it’s really for my own good , isn’t it? I think that’s how the fallacy goes.
TM is the kind of Rapture Right fundie that makes a lot of us Christians cringe. Some people forget that Christianity is a shield, not a sword.
Will,Also, I’m really not pissed off most of the time. The people around me seem to think I’m pretty easy to get along with. It’s just when I see people throwing bullshit, especially at my friends, I throw it back- and I seem to have a fairly good arm.
TM”Yes, many wrong things can be proven with the scriptures, but they can also be refuted with the correct exegesis of the scriptural context.”
So, just curious, how do you know that the current interpretation is correct? If someone can quote the Bible to prove anything, then only in hindsight can a person say what the word REALLY means right? Or maybe your just to busy trying to threaten people to care.
XX-Well said- I agree.
I remember conversing with an evangelical about theology. I must admit that we shared many similar theological standing points. Until of course, he said that unlike Catholicism his was not a religion of rules. I then asked him if he thought homosexuals were admitted into heaven. What I got was a “don’t be ridiculous!”
So I thus concluded that when one reaches St. Peter he will A) ask you if you had faith in Jesus Christ. and:B) require proof of your sexual orientation.
So much for the religion without rules.
As ever well said XXX.
TM? Watch posters like JB, XXX, and kansassam. Learn to bring less judgement and self righteuosness to your message and you will be taken more credibly.
Could you imagine being married to a woman like that?
Will,Here’s what TM said to Farmgrrl. Sorry it took so long to find it- it was among the 750 or so posts on the Terry Fox thread.
“KFG:You are spiritually deaf and blind.Satan has covered your spiritual eyes with scales.You couldn’t possibly understand God’s word from the Bible.You have a hardened heart and a hateful spirit.You love no one and probably not even yourself. How could you when you spew out such repeated disdain, ignorance and hatred regarding the LOVE OF CHRIST who died on that cruel cross for all of us.If you know what the Bible says and yet you continue to regurgitate your hatred and mocking, I say you are stupid. Stupid people know when something is wrong, but the keep doing it anyway.I must now say that from the abundance of your heart your mouth has spoken insolence, mockery and hatred repeatedly so you are ignorant. It is an indication that you are truly ignorant of GOD’s word, HIS love, mercy, sacrifice and forgivness.What a sad, hate-filled, lonely existence you must live in.I will be praying for you KFG.Do you feel their pain, Has it touched your life, can you taste the salt in the tears they cry, do you love them more than the hate that’s been, will you love them back to life again?”
Posted by: TM | August 25, 2006 at 10:00 PM
Yep! That’s why being a fire breathing dragon that farts lightning bolts and sends buildings crashing to the ground with razor sharp claws is a perk for me. I don’t have to worry about marriage. Yep, godzilla’s got nothin on me.
There is a serious change going on in this country. With politicians, such as Katherine Harris, making statements like the ones she made, with the fundies trying to exert political influence on the subject matter taught in schools, with many on the far right thinking even the republicans are dropping them from their agendas, it appears they may attempt to forge a new party. One controlled by religious zealots with the plan to subvert the constitution dividing church and state.
This is some scary stuff happening folks, and we better be prepared to fight it tooth and nail, because they sure will. And I for one have no desire to regress to the dark ages.
Will,”Could you imagine being married to a woman like that?”Actually, yes; one of the hazards of having a good imagination.Also, I’ve known a very long line of gay people who deserve heaven before TM is allowed in.
JM,
The power of the so-called “religious right” is overstated.
V.L.R.B!!
Aww man! Are you sure TM isn’t Margie Phelps or something? That sounds like the kind of crap they would write.
JM,If they tried I would certainly not be surprised. Of course they would certainly have to ask the question of dealing with the fury of a fire breathing dragon. Not to mention the millions of whelps who call themselves Americans.
TM,Me neither, but to put it in perspective, democracy has been under attack almost since it’s inception. When I was a kid, it was Sen. Joe “Tailgunner” McCarthy that represented the threat. Before that, it was the Rich Bastards, including our Fearless Leader’s grandpappy, who tried to overthrow the government and install a Nazi regime, etc.Democracy has always had to fight the totalitarians of whatever stripe, and probably always will. It’s worth fighting for!
Excuse me, that last post was directed to J.M. (Walker), not TM.
Huhuhuhuu… The Rich Bastards! My dad always said that Republicans were the party of the rich and that Democrats were for the workin man.
Amen to that Jed. If people like TM ran this country I think Henry VIII would come back from the dead, and convert or kill the American Catholics to his “true Christianity.”
JM,Perhaps they’ll call the new party the Dominionists?
Steven,”The Crucible was Arthur Miller’s comment on Joseph McCarthy’s investigations into “Unamerican activities”.”
Interesting. I can see the correlation, although I hadn’t considered it until now. What frightened me about The Crucible was to what lengths hysteria could take people and what some would do to promote that hysteria and for what petty reasons. In a nut shell, it pissed me off. *grin*
Will,I’ll have to watch Schindler’s list again to see if I can spot what you commented on. Not sure it makes sense the way you put it, but it never hurts to try seeing something from someone else’s view.
Will,Seemed like a good enough name for the Duponts, Morgans, Etal., with Prescott Bush and his partner George Herbert Walker, who tried to enlist some very dissatisfied veterans to overthrow the government in 1934. Bush and Walker were also caught funneling money to Hitler during WWII.
So the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree! I always wondered why G-Dubya always felt the impending need to top Daddy-B. I always thought it had to do with penis envy. Guess being an asshole just runs in the family! Thanks for clarifying that Jed.
RD,”The Crucible” was written after Miller was blacklisted by the committee as a communist sympathizer. It was his take on McCarthyism.
Will,I’ve never heard either Bush repudiate that part of the family history, so I guess they still think it was a good idea.
Jed,
Thanks. I’m just a few years too young to remember McCarthy’s witch hunts. I was still in grade school when they came to an end. Miller picked a good analogy though with Salem.
I was a cast member (and later Chairwoman) of a small community theater back in the mid to late 80’s, and one of our productions was All My Sons, another Miller play, so I’m semi-familiar with his works, other than Death of a Salesman.
ddub, I have actually read the Constitution. I’ve also studied history. I am sorry if you haven’t. The “immunities and privileges” clause refers to giving freed slaves the rights of whites. Unfortunately, the Congress, under pressure to reconciliate the South with the North, ignored “Jim Crow” laws and property-ownership based voting laws. This had nothing to do with religion, son.
KU, WSU and Washburn University were founded by Congregationalists. K-State and Baker U were founded by Methodists. Other Kansas tertiary education institutions were founded by Catholics, Presbyterians, Quakers and Mennonites. Name a Kansas tertiary education institutition that was founded by atheists.
Go ahead, name one.
“Gee, there aren’t any.”
Correctamundo. You don’t get to move to the head of the class, but you are allowed move up a desk from the back row.
Murray v. Curlett banned school bible-reading. The decision was crafted by Earl Warren, a University of California, Berkeley graduate. I graduated from the same university, later. Before Murray v. Curlett, California schools didn’t have school prayer or bible reading. President Eisenhower rued his nomination of Mr. Warren as “the worst appointment I ever made.”
I don’t know if that is true. But the Warren Court did create new, unprecedented “interpretations” of the Constitution, in order to exercise social engineering in a manner never intended by the Constitution’s framers, or later amenders.
ddub, you need to study American history, Baby. And in the process, you need to study the arguments made for and against things like the 14th Amendment that enabled its passage. Cuz, right now, you seem to be ignorant. So, get educated, you hear?
Didn’t anybody else quit reading and responding to TM a long time ago?It’s a useless waste of time.TM stands for totally misguided.
If she can’t win in Florida, she can always come to Kansas, we are the National Refuge for people like her!
I wonder if she’d support Lieberman’s bid?
Heart,”I don’t know if that is true. But the Warren Court did create new, unprecedented “interpretations” of the Constitution, in order to exercise social engineering in a manner never intended by the Constitution’s framers, or later amenders.”
The constitution, and all law really, is alive. It has to be to bend to the changes society brings. Laws have to provide answers to problems their framers never foresaw, such as the coming of the internet and it’s opening up the world.The Warren court was in session for some of the most extreme and devisive socioal changes this country has seen- nuclear secrets, the (mostly manufactured) Red Menace, the civil rights movement a very unpopular war, a popular backlash against church control over what movies could be made and what books could be read, and charges that police were abusing their authority. Decisions had to be made that allowed for the flexibility of the society, while conforming to at least the spirit of the constitution. The Warren Court did about as well as could be done to sort out all these disagreements and still have a constitutional democracy.The framers knew that the society would change, and acknowledged the ones they could see coming, but the great technical advances of thr 19th and 20th centuries brought questions, such as, does the privacy of ones letters extend to telephone conversations, the internet, to cell phones and other wireless communications?The Warren Court laid the foundations that made all this possible.
“Yes, many wrong things can be proven with the scriptures, but they can also be refuted with the correct exegesis of the scriptural context.”
And how do we know the CORRECT exegisis?
Heheheh. I am sure TM will tell us. Only HER exegisis will be the correct one.
Jed, all thanks for the support. I found TM’s message to gster to be extremely threatening. She must work for the IRS or some congressman or something to have enough power to make that kind of threat.
Gee. I wonder what she has planned for me? Too bad I’m not into pain.. heheheheh.
Tracy, the reason people respond to TM is so she can show her ass ever more frequently.
TM!!! Driving away converts for christ since 2006!!!!!
I just LOVE IT when she posts. She illustrates every evil thing about christianity. Even better than terry, joe and fred.
Electing evangelicals will put people like TM and the ayatollah terry in charge of the U.S. CONSTITUTION.
Do you think they will be any kinder or “more christian” towards other religions than they are to the non religious?
Hee hee hee
If you believe that, I have some beachfront property in western ks that I would like to sell you…..
Tracy:you and the rest of your ilk need to tell me again just how misguided I am. On second thought, don’t bother. I won’t be back.KFG more than disagreed with me.She could only spew lies about Christians and quote other people’s opinionated ignorance about the Christianity and the Bible.What do you really know about me?You can blather on and on about me, but none of it is true, it’s just your opinion and just like everyone else’s opinion on this blog, if you’re not pro-abortion, pro-gay, anti-Christian, radical left-wing, blatantly liberal progressive, then we are misguided and need to be disregarded, diminished, put in our place and taught a lesson. RIGHT???What a sad state of existence.When the issues cannot be debated and you people make it personal then I’m through. When you take the side of someone like KFG who made it a personal hatefilled, anti-God, anti-Christian tirade and continuous rant of idiocy and ignorance, because Christian beliefs are offensive to her and the rest of you, what else is there to say? I quote God’s word and the ranting rages for hours.Don’t tell me you’re not ANTI-CHRISTIAN. From the abundance of your heart, your mouth speaketh.I want to encourage Nathan, PassinThru, JB, Paul F. Rossell and heartlander to leave these people to their own mire.Let them continue to pat each other on the back and believe that a world without God is how all of us should be forced to live and it is a better way to live.
PROVERBS 14:33Wisdom rests in the heart of him who has understanding,But what is in the heart of fools is made known.
PROVERBS 15:28THE HEART OF THE RIGHTEOUS STUDIES HOW TO ANSWER, BUT THE MOUTH OF THE WICKED POURS FORTH EVIL.
PROVERBS 24:1-2Do not be envious of evil men, nor desire to be with them, for their heart devises violence and their lips talk of troublemaking.
Get the dust off of those feet and don’t look back!!!Saints are never welcome in their own home town.Poor mistreated soul.
BTW, we already know way more about you than we ever wanted to.
TM,Hey baby, things can get rough on this blog, and your extreme dominionist statements provoked a lot of the roughness here. If you can’t take it as well as you dish it out, then blogs are no place for you. Try Disney World (but not on a Gay Day)!
I’ve seen that before TM.
YOU know, people who say they are “leaving”?
Dear leave if you like but don’t put it on the forum at least not at large.
What you feel hate? Well ya tend to get back that which you give TM. Or maybe you just get a lesson in how SOME Christians are percieved. You COULD have learned from it as I suggested. But go ahead persecuting from your high place and complaining how it sucks to be you.
For myself? I have never been anything but fair with you. I am sorry if it is difficult for you to answer simple questions I have often put to you.
Your bible or your former pastor Terry Fox does NOT have all the answers TM. YOU don’t either. Maybe you ought to welcome a little more the advice and opionions of others when you come to a forum based in the sharing of opinions.
And by calling evildoers to Him, and reaching out to the fringes of society, Jesus saves more souls than bashing Bibles unto people’s heads. Ymmärrätkö?
“Don’t tell me you’re not ANTI-CHRISTIAN.”
Ok.
Dont tell me you’re not ANTI-GAY!!
or anti anything that isnt you!
hee hee hee hee
Maybe TM’s threat to gster will ALSO involve some farted lightning bolts.
Your god does fart lightning bolts, no?
heheheheheheheh
Taking cover right now……
“I want to encourage Nathan, PassinThru, JB, Paul F. Rossell and heartlander to leave these people to their own mire.”
hee hee hee hee
I’d like to second that motion. Please, do leave us to our own mire. I totally think you would be happier on a christian blog than down here in the mire of a political blog.
You sound just like gmc, nojoco, and a host of other righties that regularly huff off the blog, only to come back again when they have suffiently licked their wounds from a liberal drubbing.
TM will be back. She loves the sound of her own voice and the sight of her gnarled and wagging finger. She will be here as long as she has an audience. Or as long as the ayatollah terry pays her.
It’s her 15 minutes. Let her have it.
It must be the ONLY time anyone ever listens to her…..
Psssstt!! Hey, is it safe to come out now?I’m going to see if I can add orgre coverage to my insurance policy- might come in handy!
MMMM, me like farted lightening.Farted lightening good.Crunchy!!
Are you sure that’s not brimstone??
SHAME!
Shame on you gster for being mildly thretened by a mild threat!
And YOU Tracy! How dare you engage in discourse with TM! How dare you do that on a blog! TM is supposed to be able to post and rant away unchallenged! She does not have to answer to you!
I’m moderately shamed!!Oops, now it’s gone!
hee hee hee hee
Why do I suspect that she thinks god answers to HER, not the other way around….
heheheheh
Here’s a western kansas rabbit’s foot for you to carry gster. Just in case you need good luck in a lighting storm….
KFG_Thanks, and just to be sure, I’m going to chant “My heart is pure and my legions are many!”- you just never know.
gster, kfg, jr, YOU people are the reason I keep coming back.I like you folks.
Reminds me of a line from a Charlie Daniels song, “Damn Good Cowboy”:
If you don’t like him,you won’t like me either,Cause he’s a damn good cowboyand I hope the hellhe stays in Tennesee
Tracy-Thanks.In the words of our fearful leader :” It’s an honorifical to be in such extinguisable company!”
I never misunderestimate you guys.
Let the record show that TM did NOT have a response to my contention that she wants to ram her version of Christianity down everyone else’s throat.
She wants a creche in front of every courthouse. She wants the ten commandments next to the flag in your child’s classroom. She wants science class to teach Biblical creationism instead of science.
AND, she wants NO OTHER RELIGIONS to have the same rights in this country that hers does.
No Islamic call to prayer at graduation. No Star of David in the classroom. No Buddha statues in front of the courthouse.
This is medievalism pure and simple. It was the very thing that our founders, children of the enlightenment all, detested from the religious wars only a century before (see “Thirty Years War”).
the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion . . .” John Adams, Treaty of Tripoli, ratified by the Senate 1797
I don’t know how the founders could have said it any plainer than this.
But if you don’t want to believe something, no amount of straight talk will convince you.
TM, from one Christian to another, it’s not your quotes from the Bible, it’s your delivery and interpretation.
It’s never a good idea to witness for the Lord down your nose.
Remember, judgement is the provence of the Lord, not yours.
Wow XXX
After reading your last two posts, if there is anything you wish to say or clarify about your religion feel free. Your philosopy is one that would be refreshing to hear.
XXX, I tried saying the same stuff.I was even polite the first couple of times. maybe.
At a breakfast meeting with New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin at Betsy’s Pancake House, Bush was asked in passing by waitress Joyce Labruzzo,”Mr. President, are you going to turn your back on me?”"No ma’am,” Bush replied with a laugh.”Not again.”
XXX,I would also be interested in reading how you would witness to the people here.
The best witness is in how you treat other human beings.
Jesus gave us the example- dine with those who society outcasts, help the needy when no one else will. Ultimitly, dying for those who curse you, mock you, hate you.
In the end, turning the other cheek, even when you wish to strike out at the person.
I have not said a negative word about anyone else on this blog, and I have always expressed that I don’t think that the religious right has the best answers for society- you won’t change anyone by making a law against them. I don’t force my beliefs on anyone. KSFG- please don’t hate me because I have beliefs that are different then yours. At that point you are no better then Terry Fox.
“At that point you are no better then Terry Fox.”
JB: You need to get over the Terry Fox matter and quit bashing your Christian brother. I am sure that breakup was painful. However IMHO, it is time to put it to rest and move on.
Terry who?
When the Religious Conservatives state there is no separation of church and state – do they also mean that churches should be taxed?
After all, if there is no difference and the church owns property and takes in revenue – then they should be taxed just like everyone else.
This Harris chick needs a padded room next to Rumsfeld.
I believe that this is the only mention that I have made of Terry Fox outside his original post. I am not bashing him. I am perfectly “over” the “breakup”
It is a fact that he is and was extrememly judgemental of anyone who doesn’t agree with his political views, and so is KSFG. KSFG is so keen on insulting Fox, so I thought it was a pertinent statement. I am sorry if you disagree.
NoJo, the best wat to start witnessing is by example. You don’t convince anybody that you’ve condemned. And it does no good to witness to someone who isn’t open to it. A time comes. It did for me. I wasn’t always a Christian. If I can be converted, ANYBODY can be converted. Just gotta be the right time.
Patience is a virtue.
XXX – I would guess that your version of “witnessing” is by “BEING” – that is by living a life that illustrates the goodness of Christ. This might be particularly striking if you had a ‘darker’ past and someone knows that and that the “light” brought you to a better state of being.
We call it attraction rather than promotion.
Thanks XXX. I’m glad that you converted. All of Heaven rejoiced the day that you did!
What X says is true. You help folks who are “searching” by letting them find you not hitting them over the head or legislating their lives with your beliefs.
Oh and Outie? I think Terry Fox is kinda universally reviled by all but the most in your face type of Christian. Why don’t you want anyone to talk about that? Do you fear truth? Do you remember what Jesus said about truth?
CR,”When the Religious Conservatives state there is no separation of church and state – do they also mean that churches should be taxed?”No, when they say that there is no separation of church and state, they mean just that! If the church is the state, and we don’t tax the state, then we don’t tax the church either.
heheheheh jed
JB, I guess all those 700 posts on the ayatollah’s thread were generated by me? hehehe. Nice to be flattered that way, but I think terry generated his own backlash.
If you wanna blame it on me, knock yerself out. It isnt going to change the minds of the THOUSANDS of people who agree with me. And I with them.
Maybe I gave the most memorable expression to the disgust most of us share for the little ayatollah. But I am hardly alone in my opinions of terry, joe and fred.
What I have said about terry has been the truth. Find a lie in what I have posted. Sorry you find the truth so hateful.
Who said “the truth will set you free”? OBVIOUSLY not someone in Kansas. Nope, we prefer a gentle lie to the cold hard truth.
The ayatollah is a hatemonger and a threat to ALL american values. If you find the truth so hateful, you must enjoy the ayatollah’s lies.
Yes, let’s not separate churches from state taxes. You want equality? YOU got it. But I bet you wont like it.
Oh, and spin away, but Immanuel will ALWAYS carry the stink of the ayatollah terry. And the campaign against gay people will forever be a stain on your church.
I think history will judge you most harshly, but fortunately for you and I, we wont be around to see it.
Immanuel will be a quaint little footnote in Kansas history, but not as a force for good. It will be regarded as an example of a less enlightened time, like the churches that supported slavery. And other churches will denounce you as an example of what churches should NOT do and they will be quick to point out that THEY are not like immanuel.
You can blame me all you want, but you created that negative image for your church with your blind following of terry and your placid acceptance of his hate speech.
Until the questions surrounding his departure are answered in the light, you are “tainted” with him and the things he has done under cover of darkness.
But please, feel free to blame someone else. That seems to be what you all do best.
Too many divorces? Blame the gays, not the straight people getting divorced. Too many unwed mothers? Must be the fault of the gays, not the parents or the churches they grew up in.
Heheheh. Of course. And may I just say in regard to churches “Bill Clinton! Bill Clinton!”
Just keep spinning here JB. We love seeing the church’s true colors.
KSFG- You haven’t listened to a thing I wrote… Which is exactly the problem. You automatically go crazy assuming I am defending Terry Fox, which is ridiculous if you read any of my posts. Talk about true colors. Many posters on this blog have been honest and have engaged in real discussions. You seem bent on attacking me and judging me soley because I am a Christian. All I asked above is that you don’t judge me. Apparently that is too much for you to handle.
So much for tolerance…
OH DAMN!I violated the golden rule of the WEBLOG. Don’t question KSFG’s logic or your a horrible aweful, stupid, closeminded bigot. I forgot. You’re only openminded if you agree with her.
How could I have been so stupid?
Not to worry. She won’t actually read anything I say. She’ll just go off on the brilliant pre-planned speech she had already. No matter if it doesn’t apply to any of the arguments that have been made above.
“Heheheh. Of course. And may I just say in regard to churches “Bill Clinton! Bill Clinton!”
well take this:
Heheheh. Of course. And may I just say in regard to churches “John Adams! John Adams!”
Gosh JB, why do you want to bait me. Afraid you wont get enough publicity unless you engage me?
And I see you didnt refute anything I said. Just dismissed me as not listening.
heheheh. Typical. No JB, I have NEVER posted attacking you until you attacked me today.
And my opinions about christianity are no surprise to anyone who reads here. I think it is YOU who is preplanned.
Again, why are you baiting me? Just trying to get a few more posts here?
Ok well, I’m not taking the bait here. You have to pick another straw man to attack. I think there are enough posters here who agree with me on these issues that I can stay in the car and they can take it from here.
Sorry, you wont have farmie to kick around anymore… until tomorrow! heheheheheh
I didn’t answer anything you said because it had nothing to do with what I said. (the laws of physics are breaking down, cap’n)
Besides, I honestly agree with alot of it concerning Terry, Immanuel will not fully recover until the truth comes out about Terry. I hasten the day, trust me. As one who sat in the church sunday after sunday, trying to get some change in the place, all the meanwhile listening to him bash my opinions and call me stupid for disagreeing with him. Still, I was determined not to leave because I believe that the man is not the church, and I shouldn’t let him chase me out of my church.
My problem is that you automatically assumed that I was defending him, which is not the case.
Terry who?
JB,Care to elaborate and explain the problems you had with Terry Fox?
JB,”So much for tolerance…”Something about “As ye sow….?”
JB,One thing that might help would be to get rid of that 150ft phallic symbol that Bre’r Fox put up as a monument to his hate, pride and arrogance. Jesus certainly doesn’t need it!
You don’t know how much I agree with the statement about the cross. If I could list it in the classifieds… but alas I am but a poor layperson.
As for the problems I had with Terry Fox I listed them fairly fully on the thread devoted to him. Tracy and Outlander are right. I don’t think at the moment their is any more I can say on this issue, so I’ll shut up.I’m even tired of hearing my own voice.
Well a question if you don’t mind JB?
I mentioned earleier that the ad with Fox’s picture in the Saturday religion pages that used to be for Immanuel is now for Fox’s summit church. Such an ad posted weekly is NOT cheap.
Too we know that the guy behind Wild West world is one of the Fox flock.
Can I assume that a great deal of Immanuels collection plate is going out the door with Fox?
I have never been to Immanuel. Why is a humongous cross so controversial in here? If a cross is controversial then what would you think of the butt-naked angels that adorn the ceilings of St. Peter’s?
Will,Other than it being outrageously ostentatious, Fox’s cross doesn’t really mean that much. What does make me wonder is that Fox just had to spend millions on a building, wear expensive suits and drive high-dollar cars to promote a religion founded by a guy who never had more than two shekels to rub together in his life- and apparently never needed more! All that money could have been used for so many other things that would have actually done some good in this world!
Jed,Point taken. Really I’ve had the same reservations about the Catholic Church and our mega-cathedrals.
Bigger is better, must be a European thing.