The pastor of a conservative church near St. Paul, Minn., worries that the message of evangelical Christianity sounds little too much like that of the Republican Party. So, the New York Times reported Sunday, the Rev. Gregory Boyd delivered a series of sermons asking his flock to avoid politics, cut back on sexual moralizing, and stop glorifying U.S. military campaigns. He also urged them to stop claiming America as a “Christian nation.”
If the message was a dramatic departure, so was the response: The church’s fund-raising campaign tanked, and about 1,000 of his 5,000 congregation headed for the exits. Still, some of those who stayed told him they found his remarks “liberating.”
Makes you wonder how a similar sermon would go over in some Wichita conservative churches.
Posted by Dave Knadler
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117 Comments
Oooh, David -You make a good point. I know Melissa is resting easier tonight.
Your first “header” with us Dave and you came out swinging! Good on you!
The events at this church must give us pause. Folks walked out and the fundraiser “tanked”. One wonders about that. Were the folks who walked out there to hear the words from a mininster of God? OR were they there to hear and support only what they wanted to be fed?
It will not happen here, Pastor “Wolf” (The last time I wrote his name it was change to “Local Pastor” me thinks that perhaps there was some bread being butter at the WE?)is too prideful to admit he is wrong.
And to change his spew would be to admit he is wrong. You know those Pharisees are prideful if not followers of the teachings of Christ.
While I applaud Rev. Gregory Boyd for doing to right thing, I however understand why people left and why this wouldn’t be popular amoung the rest of the evangelical community.
Many evangelicals believe that government is on the side of evil and their goal is to change that with whatever tatic they can muster.
Government is secular, it doesn’t promote family values, it teaches sex and evolution in it’s schools, but it hold enormous power of taxation and the law.
Evangelicals find it ok to tap into government for the purpose of power. It is an obligation of their faith to covert people and keeping government seperate from the church or secular is not in their doctrine or belief. They want the church to be the government.
So, who WOULD Jesus bomb? No one can seem to give me an answer.
I still say the devil wears a bracelet that says “what would karl rove do?”
Wasnt it outlander who said a few weeks ago that christians DIDNT go to church to get their marching orders and instructions on how to group think?
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
writerdog, did the WE editors expunge the names of Terry Fox and Joe Wright? The two leaders of the four horsemen of hate? Terry, joe, fred and pat?
I think it howlingly funny to even consider that the two lead horsemen of hate would renounce political thuggery by their churches. Since their power clearly does not come from god, but comes instead from the GOP, why in the world would they do that?
So their fundraising and church building idolotry would get less cash from the political “faithful”?
heheheheh
Let’s see how long this stays up.
Dave, you better duck and cover. Serpentine. Do something, because the holy rollers in wichita aint gonna like this very much.
And where is your esteemed co-worker, that ever so professional journalist, god’s own shill…
VALUES BOY!!!!!!!
How hypocritical can the WE be? Publishing values boys vapid repeats of whatever serman he was told to repeat? heheh. Then a thread on church politics?
Damn, do as we say but not as we do? And the worst part? His preachiness truthiness is on the… wait for it…. EDITORIAL PAGE!!!!! HEHEHEHEHEHEHEH!
Welcome to journalism in kansas. Arent you proud to be on the same “editorial” (read “evangelical”) team as values boy?
Doesnt it make you proud to be lumped in with a hack like him?
Jesus wept.
…tap, tap, tap, tap…
While we are waiting for the holy roller republicans to get back from morning services…
…I read something on yahoo yesterday that the majority of americans are tired of churches and their political activities. They are offended by the christianists bringin up the republican nazi values votes in congress while the world goes up in flames.
Gee, do you suppose all this will backfire on god’s own politicians? On the WE’s stupid designation of values boy as VALUES boy?
Naaaaawwwwww. It will take another hundred years for kansas to catch up to the rest of the country.
Well, maybe only 50 years. I mean, it is 1956 in kansas right now.
Isnt it? Ask the science hating creationists running the kansas board of evangelicals…
Oh Paul… here paul… here trolly, trolly, trolly. Here paul…
Here is a nice communion wafer treat. Here proll, proll, proll.
Mama has something special for you today….
Wow, 20% of the congregation walking out. I’ve never heard that. It would appear that Rev Boyd and his flock don’t see quite eye to eye.
I, for one, don’t “wonder how a similar sermon would go over in some Wichita conservative churches.” Do you really wonder Dave?
Of course you dont “wonder” outie.
You do and think as you are told!
What’s to “wonder” about?
I really like that about our church.. I have not heard one candidate’s name, or even that there is an election. I don’t believe a sermon like that is even remotely needed in our church… but it certainly wouldn’t cause people to walk out!
He is preaching God’s true word, and should continue to do so even if he preaches that church into non-existence. Amen.
Hm, I remember listening to Toad Tiahrt campaigning at WSU Newman Center back in ‘94.
As for this preacher, he restores my faith in (some) evangelicals…
Roo, they said he was a conservative not an evangelical.
Although the distinction is small. And if you add republican to the mix, it is hard to tell an evangelical from a conservative from a republican from a theocrat.
“Pretty good, not bad, I cant complain, but actually, all them (blanks) are just about the same”.
John Prine again.
They better take it to heart. The IRS just sent out several thousand nastygrams to most churchs around the country they were being watched for political activity. With the Catholic diocesses in many cities openly stating they would not abide by the Immigration laws of the land and with other denominations openly campaigning and handing out campaign literature they need to be on notice.
They could also be up against the situation in Stafford TX. The town has said enough to new churches. The city of 19,000 has some 51 churches and they own so much land in the city that the city is stuck with no way to generate taxes to support the streets, fire and police. Now the fight is on. Im sure it will be an interesting pi**ing match.
But the really scary part of that situation is a city that small having 51 churches. Sounds like every time somebody gets upset they go down the street and start an offshoot they just made up. But then that would be pretty much cover religion in general.
Mr. Bill I think the Catholic Church hold more land in NYC than any real estate mogal could wish to have.
There is a way to tax churches without having to go excessive entanglement on them.
Fair Tax
:) Shameless Plug!
KFG, in the article it was alluded that he’s an evangelical, an anomalous one in today’s harvest, one may say. However, he draws the line on the use of coercion to spread the message. I was particularly delighted with his closing statement: “I don’t think there’s a particular angle we have on society that others lack. All good, decent people want good and order and justice. Just don’t slap the label ‘Christian’ on it.”
MaryI do think it is sad that many of you on the left have such a fear of faith being mixed with politics.Faith has ALWAYS informed US political views.Slavery was opposed by the Churches first.Do you rememeber the name of REVEREND Martin Luther King?Of course, The Reverend Jackson and the Reverend Sharpton can’t quite hold a candle to MLK. but they still want to be accepted as moral and political leaders. Jackson even raised MONEY for polital causes inside churches and nobody stoped him!I also notice posts in here about the “immorality” of war or the “immorality” of our policy towards the homeless.I think many of them were wrong, but during the anti Vietnam War days, ministers from several denominations got involved.Why can’t people of faith who disagree with the left do so from a position of faith?As far as your question, “Who would Jesus bomb?”That is insulting.We should never assume that we are always right. We should always test our decision to go to war against moral principles.However, you seem not to understand that Jesus was no pacifist.”If you don’t own a sword, sell your cloak and buy one”Jesus did tell a disciple to put his sword in its sheath, after he had drawn it in the Garden.Jesus never told us to get rid of our swords.The left loves it when people of faith “bless” their causes.The left screams “seperation of church and state” when people of faith go against their causes.
Joe, explain again what you mean when you say fair tax. I’m sorry, I know you have said it before.
Is it a national sales tax? If food and medicine were exempt, I could go for a consumption tax instead of an income tax. I used to be against it, but now?
I am waaaaayyyy for it.
KFG, and may I add that I’m not a swooning fan of the mainstream theocratic evangelical republican party that we have to endure right now. To me, they sold their souls in the pact with mr mephistopheles himself around the turn of 20th century.
Well well well. Paul must have slept in this morning. Where to start….
Who would jesus bomb is insulting?
If jesus is no pacifist, why is that insulting? If jesus wanted you to have swords, you think he didnt want you to use them?
You seem to imply that jesus would be ok with bombing as long as it was the RIGHT people being bombed. typical. You can say it but we cant? heheheheheh
..and paul, the “churches opposed slavery first” is just so much bullshit. I think the SLAVES opposed slavery first, and a FEW churches came along to oppose it later. Mostly churches in that nasty liberal north eastern mass. You know, the one most kansans despise as to liberal.
Secular humanists were also there to condem slavery at least as early as any yankee liberal northeastern church.
And lest you have selective memory, it was the southern CHURCHES that used the bible to justify slavery. Just like they used it to justify the ban on interracial marriages and gay marriage. Or the lynching of black men who just LOOKED askance at a white woman.
You do remember the lynchings that were NOT condemed by the churches?
YOUR churches almost ALWAYS support oppression of americans. It is RARE that they do not.
heheh. Black churches and ministers opposed oppression for a long time until the gay marriage issue. Then they just jumped the shark and forgot their own words when it came to gay people. They jumped on the terry, joe and fred bandwagon of “haters for jesus”.
You of all people paul should know that drill. Do as we say but not as we do.
I guess everyone needs to feel superior to someone and that is why black ministers from wichita testified en masse in favor of putting HATE into the kansas constitution.
Please. Tell me again how the churches dont oppress, even black and hispanic churches.
And dont forget mlk’s daughter who REGULARLY marches in support of bills that make gay people second class citizens. I wonder how far the apple fell from the tree…
“I think many of them were wrong, but during the anti Vietnam War days, ministers from several denominations got involved.”
Please provide the list of ministers opposing THIS unjust war.
You have to go back thirty years to justify the actions of the haters now? jesus wept. Again, the churches and ministers who opposed the viet nam war were late too the game.
“which way did they go? how many of them were there? I must know, I am their leader” could be the cry of most ministers who opposed the viet nam war.
“The left loves it when people of faith “bless” their causes.”
Bullshit paul. Pure bullshit. I dont want the help of the churches. I think I have had all of their “help” that I can stand.
And yes, there are churches that bless gay marriages. But it mystifies me why ANY gay person would want their blessing. Civil unions I understand, but gays seeking church blessings?
Imitating the masters? heheheheheheh.
They only reason any of them “bless” gay marriage is to keep that offering plate full. Wouldnt want those “DINKS” (double income, no kids) to take their money elsewhere…
Gay people in churches or the republican party are like black folks who join the klan. I dont understand it, but whatever. If they want to suck up to their oppressors, that is up to them.
“We should never assume that we are always right. We should always test our decision to go to war against moral principles.”
HOWLING now. ROFLMQAO. hehehehehehehehehhehehehheheheh
Um proll paul, exactly WHICH moral principle guided us into iraq? heheh. Was it the moral principle of LYING? Was it the moral principle of telling HALF TRUTHS? Was it the moral principle of SELECTIVE INTELLIGENCE? Or perhaps the moral principle of NATION BUILDING which bush swore he would not do?
How about the prejudice against semites? Was it THAT moral principle? Please explain what moral principles we followed when our leaders lied and decieved us into war? When children were bombed for oil? When Israel and bushco started world war III?
Cant wait for the moral principles involved there.
Sorry paul, but you are a hack and a hypocrit and a shill for the GOP.
But we are amused, heheh, and we do encourage you to try again.
It’s ok roo, I didnt think you were. I know you to be a thinking poster…
What I see is pure hypocrital is when these Neo-Cons always scream there is no separation of church and state. That is, UNTIL, they get tax-free money through the state. Then they are thrilled with the state. Just what is the average annual budget for one of these mega-churches – 5 million? 10 million? or above? These churches are nothing but big business and has nothing to do with Jesus or God.
Maybe those 1,000 people that left the St. Paul, Minn church were paid Republican operatives? After all, if George W. did not have the hopelessly inept thinking Neo-Cons, he would not be in the White House today. Just a thought.
Isnt there something in your good book about reaping what you sow?
ALL churches better hope they never reap as much hate as they have sown.
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2006/07/epidemic-of-hatred.html
And terry fox, joe wright and fred phelps had better hope they never reap a TENTH of the hate they have sown.
If you have to discuss religion you really have to consult the general, General Jesus that is:
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/
Q: Who would Jesus bomb?
A: Nobody. Bombing is for cowards who cannot stand seeing the victims of their handiworks and are too scared to face the inward consequences of their actions.
Perhaps Jesus is not a pacifist, that’s up for debate. But he definitely knows when to start a fight, when to sheathe the swords, when to compromise to win hearts, and when to accept apparent defeat only to return triumphantly. Sadly, these qualities are sorely missing from the current theocratic military junta now hiding behind a facade of sham religiousity.
There is indeed a culture war raging now, but it is within the so-called conservatives. It’s the battle for the very soul of conservatism. The outcome will decide if The Almighty will become institutionalized state entity.
MaryI am Catholic.The Ku Klux Klan Act was writtten: “To protect Catholics, Republicans and Negroes in the Reconstruction South.”The worst murders and genocides in history have been at the hands of pagans and atheists.Hitler was a pagan.Communism is an atheistic political movement.The slaves had no power to overturn slavery, the political force behind abolition was almost entirely Christian.As for your myth about secular humanists.The truth is, all but one member of the Constitution Convention tithed to at least one church, many tithed to two or more churches.Your response sounds angry and full of hate Mary.So much so, you could easily be on the Kansas State House Wall.(Right next to John Stuart Mills portrait of John Brown, with a Bible in one hand and a rifle in the other!)(John Brown, a radical Christian, was hanged shortly before the civil war for taking up arms against slavery)
ks farm girl, I am a lapsed Catholic.I still think the Catholic faith is closer to the truth than any other.By the way, are jokes about Communion wafers acceptable in here?You are a bigot, Farm Girl, and you have no business putting down Mel Gibson after your disgraceful statements here.
I don’t see how you can call KSfarmgirl a bigot Paul. Isn’t that soemthing like “the pot calling the kettle black”?
Oh is that name calling I hear? “Mom, kfg is being mean to me. Waaaaa, mommy”.
Arent you the one who whines when losing an argument that JR is a bully? That he calls you names?
pot, meet kettle.
I have even more jokes about communion wafers. And I am pretty sure you dont want to hear the ones about holy water….
heheh apophis and I crossed posts with the same thoughts.
Paul, were you educated in public or private schools? Just wondering ’cause you dont seem to be able to read.
I am not Mary, although I am flattered to be compared with her. I am the one talking about slavery and the “secular human myth” hehehe. I know all women must look and sound alike to you, but trust me, Mary and I are very different.
Second, I didnt post about Mel, did I? Nope, didnt think so, but thanks for playing and you can pick up your consolation prize at the door on your way out. I know, you must have confused me with someone else.
And speaking of confusion, not only do you forget your own degree and major, but you changed religion in two posts? heheh. You told Mary you are a catholic, and you told me you were “lapsed” whatever the hell THAT means.
Son, you need to take up “hooked on phonics” and some ginsing for your memory.
And I am guessing here, but a little viagra probably wouldnt hurt either…
Great new campaign slogan:
VOTE REPULICAN–GO TO HEAVEN!!
“The truth is, all but one member of the Constitution Convention tithed to at least one church, many tithed to two or more churches.”
And this would matter why?
I think I said secular humanists were there before the churches and you bring up the constitutional convention? Um, why?
heheh. I think you had that bookmarked that little soundbite in the wrong file. It should have been marked “christian theist nation” and instead you filed it under “abolition myths”.
Heheh. No problem. I guess when you cant read or remember, misfiling usless information is not a big deal…
Tracey, I still like:
“Vote Republican. It’s easier than thinking.”
It ranks up there with “Jesus, save me from your followers”
and
“WWJD. What would jenna drink?”
heheheheheheh
Oooh, lesbians with viagra!!Stop it girl, stop it!
Oh well go ahead, I’m too old and too married anyway.
Maybe that last one is just an austin thing. You know, there was that unfortunate underage drinking incident at Chueys.
KFG -I think you’ve got this one handled, I’ll stay in the car. (I’m eating popcorn and enjoying the show).
heheheh Tracey. And where is Brian when we need him. He usually enjoys these “lesbians with viagra” moments.
And, btw, I dont need no stinkin’ viagra… or batteries….
hee hee hee julie. The purple chicken told me you had a stash of popcorn. I hated for you to waste it on some boring something.
Yer welcome!
Women need a reason to have sex. Men just need a place…..Billy Crystal
I’m too shy to express my sexual needs except over the phone to people I don’t know…..Garry Shandling
Wow somebody stop me.I’m WAAAAAY off topic.
KFG – it’s to hot to go out to the movies so I stay in and enjoy the fireworks on the blog. This microwave stuff just isn’t as good as theatre popcorn though…oh well, at least the fireworks are good :)
ding ding ding ding ding.
“And, coming down the stretch we see paul, falling behind despite a valiant run at the finish. Yep, he rounded curve one just fine with the “angry woman” meme, then he thought he could take the lead with the “hateful old woman meme”. He held his own until the end, and he did get in the “godless athiest” shot a la coultergeist, but he fell short at the finish line and left the race in disgrace.”
Too bad for the folks that bet on his horse, but give the man credit for the trifecta of memes.”
hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee
Damn, this is fun, but I gotta go to work. culture of personal responsibility dontcha know. I gotta go whip my employees like the capitalist dog I am. Then I am gonna buy some dope with my latest farm subsidy check.
You all have a nice day.
Oh and one more thingm Julie.
I grew a ton of organic popcorn last year and I still have some in the freezer if you and MM and the kiddos come back to Cedar Bluff.
But you better hurry because if governor leadership is coronated again, Cedar Bluff will soon be drained. That giant sucking sound is Hays on her ass AND the lake.
I wonder if they use the same straw….
hee hee hee
I better go. This is more fun than the time my cousin went to take a dump and the hogs ate him….
Well hi Ed!!I see you’re in good spirit today!
And a hearty “hello, how’s your Dad” would have been fine.
KFG,Foaming at the mouth again I see. Together with Eddy the Jew-Hating-Jew. Definitely a match made in paradise.
Stay outta it Crusader. Paul called kfg a bigot. Calling someone prejudiced who is THEMSELF the victim of prejudice is about as low as it gets.
kfg?
Dang girl! Ya know I luv ya but you didn’t leave anything for me! I call that just plain selfish! All that’s left of Paul is scattered remains around a smoking hole!
Out of all the crap here, on both sides, there is a nugget of truth. I won’t claim it, but I’ll highlight it.
First, before that: While certainly churches cannot and should not be ran as political operations for candidates, persons of faith (including preachers) do not lose their right to participation in the political process when they step through the church door. Find a balance.
And while I do not endorse all this writer’s statements, this is the nugget:”The left loves it when people of faith “bless” their causes.The left screams “separation of church and state” when people of faith go against their causes.”
Truer words were never spoken.
GMC70:
“… persons of faith (including preachers) do not lose their right to participation in the political process when they step through the church door.” Is it stepping IN (to the pulpit, I presume) or stepping OUT (to rejoin the daily grind)?
Good grief, GMC70 agreeing with Paul. My God, cats will be sleeping with dogs; mice will grow up to be men; the sun will rise in the west; corn will come with its own batteries . . . O, wait; they are both of the same mind, you say? Never mind. I’ll stay in the car.
Awww shucks, gmc doesnt like my posts? And cruex either? Damn. Say it isnt so. heheheheh
High five JR. I know it was a good post or two by who doesnt like it. Yer welcome too…
Ed, they hate it when you are right. You certainly have been correct more times than the meadowlark poop and butler county “stuff” we’ve sifted through.
Does the purple chicken have any other requests?
I always grant one last wish before the hatchet and the skillet (yep, THAT skillet), but the purple chicken is waaaaaaayyyy too valuable to roll in flour and fry in grease!
I humbly await inspiration from the FSM and the purple chicken.
RAMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
hee hee hee hee
Pssssst. There are ribs and tater salad for all those waiting in the car.
“May I take your orders please?”
Damn, I hear that in my sleep these days….
As for the separation of church and state:- the right loves it for it keeps the state off their backs- the right despises it for it keeps them off the government’s back
good one roo
GMC?? When you are right you are right. Ya just didn’t know when to quit! You said you found a nugget. Ugh ! What you found was a little piece of Paul! They’re all over the place! They have very little to do with “truth”
What you mean this
.”The left loves it when people of faith “bless” their causes.The left screams “seperation of church and state” when people of faith go against their causes.”
Uh NO. The “left” loves it when people of faith live out that faith in practice and works. Their causes are our causes. What we don’t like is when those people of faith try to tell us how to think or what to believe.
I’d a…..I’d put that little bit of Paul back down GMC. You don’t know where it’s been! Also, it might be radioactive!
The title of this is “The religious right, what LGBT people are up against”.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364×1792348
heheheheheh JR
Kansas Farm GirlAnd other anti religious folks
Thanks for proving that the Democrat outreach to “people of faith” is either a hopeless effort by the few people with common sense who remain in your party, or that that it is a complete sham.I am here to let all of you expose your own hate.Like it or not, all of my views are very widely held by the American public.Those of you who attack me constantly are only making my case that your party is out of step.By the way, I have NEVER attacked any of your religious views, have I?Farm Girl, Please PLEASE run for something or get on a Democrats paid staff so that you can take the Dem Party down WITH you!You are unstable, but I doubt that anyone on your side will have the guts to tell you that you are hurting your cause.
And Farm Girl, I did NOT say that you had posted on the Gibson thread, I said that you had no business posting, since you yourself are a bigot.Some things are out of line. If I make fun of anyone’s religion or family in here, call me on it.You are a bigot Farm Girl, and your views would make you completely unelectable in nearly every precinct in this entire country.That is why you hide your identity, is my guess.Jokes about Holy Water and Communion wafers are unacceptable. Kathleen Sebelius claims to be Catholic.I guarantee you that Sebelius would not share the same stage with you if she knew your views.You are political poison lady.
Paul,
A good quote by Rev. Gregory Boyd: “When you put your trust in the sword, you lose the cross.”
According to the article, his congregation was “mostly” conservative — so roughly speaking,
20% of the right insist that people of faith “bless” and promote their political causes.80% of the right prefers “separation of church and state”.
GEEEEEEEEEEEZ Paulie……….you are bit sensitive about these “religious” things. You don’t get it……………we Dems do NOT dislike Christians (I’ll bet most of ARE Christians), we dislike you fanatical, Taliban-like zealots!
Wow, there he goes again: Gee Paul, the usurper, why not tell her she loves terrorism, burning babies, communism, fascism, Hitler, and broccoli? You got all the answers. Maybe you should run for President yourself. Hell, you got the Bush line down cold. Maybe you could have Rush as your vice-prez; Coulter as your secretary of state; Hannity as your head of EPA.
You claim to be here to prove all us evil religion hating liberals are anti-American scum. Well, you little TFM, you know nothing about liberals. In fact, I would bet you know little about anything unless you get it from Rush Coulter and gang. You spout the same old nonsense lines that add nothing to any argument but pabulum vindictives in an attempt to show how “stupid” liberals are. What you are showing is the lack of a thought process in intelligent thinking. But being as you’re incapable of such, I guess we couldn’t expect anything different.
Put all your rants in a book, publish it, and you might sell one copy; well, maybe one to your mom as well, if she doesn’t disown you.
There are any numberof ways kfg can respond to that Paul. You’ve no IDEA the land mine you just stepped on with that post. You would really do need to do better research before you attack.
I will take issue on personally a few of your baseless assertions.
You see Paul, many here have personally met Ksfarmgrrl. For some of us, in other words those who involve ourselves in this forum beyond typing on a keyboard, relationships have become a personal face to face experience.
You called my friend kfg a bigot. Well Paul if know anything at all you would know that kfg has been on the RECEIVING end of bigotry. I don’t call it an equal exchange when the haters start the persecution and then cry foul when the persecuted take offense. I’ve met kfg. There is no more friendly and kind person you could ever meet.
You also called her unstable. Well bud she runs a farm, a produce biz, and just opened a restaurant.She is also very active in local and state politics on water issues. Maybe the world could use a few more “unstable” people Paul. At least by your definition.
Oh but to use your definition, a reader would have to assign you some measure of credibility…..something you have not earned.
Which degree was it you earned? You can’t seem to keep that story straight! You also seem to fancy yourself a writer. Kfg can write circles around you. Most of your efforts on this forum are spent whining that you are poorly treated. Well this is a debate forum Paul. If your posts are poor, factually inaccurate, or just outright lies, they will meet heavy criticism. You don’t get to be right just because you say so.
Paul you are a political operative. You may or may not be getting paid to post here. If you are being paid, your employers are getting gypped.But I have done the research to know that you have been extremely active in Repulican politics. I do not have all the facts, but there is suggestion that you are something of a hatchet man.
I warned you early on Paul that you would not have an easy time here. As a poster, you are little more than a list of talking points. The word for someone like that is “shill”. I say this forum is too good for shills, paid or unpaid. But even a shill has to have credibility.
I notice a reflex action here to defend those who post from the left, from other people on the left.That is good.It makes my point.There is no way that any thoughtful Democrat would want someone who thought jokes about Communion hosts, done in a taunting mannor, would be OK.I am amazed that I am called a “bigot” by those of you who don’t know a thing about me, and after NEVER posting a bigoted thing here or elsewhere.I have my faults, bigotry is not one of them.I would chastise anyone in a heart beat that made fun of any race or religion and then attempted to speak for my party.
Just by writing nonsense like, “I notice a reflex action here to defend those who post from the left, from other people on the left.That is good.It makes my point.”, You prove your words are no more than pablum spasms.
What your are saying is those who think like you would never stick up for one another. A sad lot you belong to.
But you comment about “reflex action” is most telling. When others who post here, and are people I consider my friends, are attacked by shallow, uncultured couths, such as yourself, with lies, distortions and deliberate falshoods, I will stand up for them, by them and with them. That is what friends do, be they democrat, republican, libertarian or whatever. I doubt you would anyone to stand by you, other than a couple of Rushettes and maybe your dog.
Your not a bigot? “Your response sounds angry and full of hate Mary.So much so, you could easily be on the Kansas State House Wall.(Right next to John Stuart Mills portrait of John Brown, with a Bible in one hand and a rifle in the other!)(John Brown, a radical Christian, was hanged shortly before the civil war for taking up arms against slavery)”
What is that, if not bigotry? Let alone you got the name wrong, or do you accuse people of doing things you disagree with without regard as to whom you are directing your bs at?
Your a small person, Paul: small in mind, small in thought, and small in tolerence. You are a bigot in the most disgusting manner possible: your “humanity” is dead.
Farm Gal,”And yes, there are churches that bless gay marriages. But it mystifies me why ANY gay person would want their blessing. Civil unions I understand, but gays seeking church blessings?”
The Unitarian-Universalist churches have been officially in the fight for gay rights since 1970, unofficially, many UU’s have been involved for much longer. We have what is known as Welcoming Congregations, which means that a majority of the congregation has participated in a series of workshops on gay issues. We have been actively seeking gay and lesbian clergy since 1974, and have many gay and lesbian ministers in churches all over the country. We have provided “Safe Haven” nights for gay and lesbian teens to socialize, and also to hear speakers on their issues. And yes, we do services of union for gay and lesbian couples. We also don’t require christian belief to belong. FSM would feel at home there too.
I’m just hee-hawing over Paul’s inacuracies.
Hitler was Catholic. Look it up.
“The worst murders and genocides in history have been at the hands of pagans and atheists.”
Really? Was this before the birth of Jesus? Before there was Christianity? Just when did all this take place?
Paul,
You deserved what ksfarmgrrl (great posts!) and others gave you.
Get over yourself. If you don’t like being attacked, don’t make indefensible, inaccurate posts. Ken Lay, Lincoln bedroom?
PAUL: “I do think it is sad that many of you on the left have such a fear of faith being mixed with politics.
Ooops! About 80% of Paul’s party, in Rev. Boyd’s church, have “a fear of faith being mixed with politics”… or at least a dislike. Maybe Paul can change THEIR minds?
PAUL: “I also notice posts in here about the “immorality” of war…”
Americans can identify “immorality” without help from churches, or a “lapsed” (failed, former, has-been) Catholic.
What first alarmed Rev. Gregory Boyd years ago?”The service finished with the chorus singing “God Bless America” and a video of fighter jets flying over a hill silhouetted with crosses.”
PAUL: “Like it or not, all of my views are very widely held by the American public.”
Nope, not even in your own party — note Rev. Boyd’s church, re church-state.
PAUL: “Those of you who attack me constantly are only making my case that your party is out of step.”
Paul is making the case that his party needs ignorance, misinformation, and “voters’ guides”, etc from churches.
RD: I looked it up, since I couldn’t believe that was being claimed. I found that Hitler was born into a Catholic family, but was hardly an adherent to the faith. He specifically rejected Catholicism and Christianity in general. Here is a link to a website that is pretty even-handed in it’s handling of the subject.http://www.adherents.com/people/ph/Adolf_Hitler.html
Remember when I “got your back” the other day Out? I’m gonna do it again. Yeah you are disputing RD’s post. But in doing so, you are getting the back of Paul F Rosell who was the target of her post. I’m thinking you don’t want to do that. Paul’s credibility is at something below zero. You don’t want to jump on a ship he is determined to sink. I’m about to help him do that.
COSMOS! Thanks the help!
Paul? The word “bigot” was first used by you on this thread when you called kfg a bigot.
Your protestation of that word being applied to you is noted. But thing is? YOU have used it more than anyone else. Are you familiar with “projection”?
Ed called you a bigot. That was AFTER you called kfg a bigot.
Paul? Ed is what he is. Lately, I say he should be better listened to. But that is another thread.
See? Ed got kfgs back. You called her a bigot and so based on your posts elsewhere, he called you one.
Folks here have “got Ed’s back” before. He is a known quantity.
Like Walker asked, I ask also. Anyone getting your back here Paul? Do you wonder why it is that no does? I can tell you.
It is because you have no friends here Paul! You have persuaded no one to embrace, support, or even acknowledge that you are credible.
I’m thinking this won’t change. You seem content to persuade an audience of one…….you.I predict for you here as I said before, a lonely frustrating time.
10 purple chickens and Paul Rosell all alone. When they are done, Paul’s pecked to the bone.
Paul is a bigot in many ways. A social bigot, an educational bigot, a religious bigot, a political bigot… The list goes on, but I think you get my drift.
Out, I believe Hitler made many references to Christianity in Mein Kampf. He may not have practiced religion, but his words lead one to think he believed in the God of the Bible.
http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm
JR, your ‘purple chickens’ rhyme sums it up perfectly! roflmao!
PAUL: “I have my faults, bigotry is not one of them.”
Bigot = one who holds blindly and intolerantly to a particular creed, opinion, etc.
PAUL: (another thread, emphasis added) “I won’t justify everything Ann Coulter says. I still ENJOY HER and think that she makes VERY VALID [legitimate] POINTS in a way no one else seems to copy.”See http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ann_Coulter
PAUL: “Faith has ALWAYS informed US political views.”
“Faith” (cough, cough) is NOW doing it like this,’Traditional family values’ include anonymous distortions?’http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2006/07/traditional_fam.html
RD..Hitler was definately anti-Christian in action…
http://www.cryingvoice.com/Christian_martyrs/NaPers.html
*Clap, clap, clap*
That’s cool Ed! You’re a good Democrat.
*Clap, clap, clap*
I don’t think so. You are! Because A-holes tend to be alone, and you are.
Who agrees with you and who supports your thoughts on here? Nobody dude! I guess we are all idiots in your mind.
Who care what you think?
Same goes to you!
“Yeah you are disputing RD’s post. But in doing so, you are getting the back of Paul F Rosell who was the target of her post. I’m thinking you don’t want to do that.”
JR: This is a discussion board.I am not interested in building alliances or in efforts at tearing others down. I am not concerned whether expressing my opinion or argument interfers with attacks on someone.
Every single person that posts regularly here has opinions that I don’t agree with. Some more than others. But IMHO the ideal would be that their ideas be dealt with, rather than attacking the person. (I will be the first to admit that I don’t always adhere to that ideal when provoked.)
However, ganging up on someone is a pack mentality that I do not think is at all admirable.
heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh
“Waaaaaaa, mommy, waaaaaaaaa, kfg is being mean to me.”
hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee
Bedwetter. Be afraid paul, be VERY afraid after yesterday’s primary.
The only thing that I found offensive in paul’s whiney post was the implication that I am a democrat.
I am not, but then, those of you who can read already know that. Paul, er, well, not so much on the reading and comprehension thing. Private or public schools? you decide.
Hee heee heeeeeeeee. Trust me paul, governor leadership hates me already, but, heheheh, it has nothing to do with religion.
It has everything to do with good government and water policy. Communion wafers have not been a bone of contention…YET! I can always piss her off about important things, but communion wafers or religion? hehehehe. That bigotry would be in YOUR domain.
(who wants to bet paul is running for the dictionary or his hooked on phonics books?)
Yep. You got my number. I am so ashamed, oh wise paul. You so brilliantly noticed that I am bigoted against bigots. heheheheh Especially bigots of the religious kind. You cant fool an old hater can ya? Takes one to know one?
I am not runnning for office. I will never run for office. I am not sure why you want me to run so bad, but dude, I am much more effective behind the scenes kicking your sorry republican asses all over the place.
Cue QUEEN!!!!!!(Ya big disgrace, kickin’ yer can all over the place. We will we will rock you!)
I have managed 12 campaigns and won nine. Bring it on asswipe. You wanna be smug about the lies and smears you used to defeat Ben a LONG TIME AGO!!!! How about the debacle yesterday for you and yours? heheheheheheheheheheheheh
Can you sing glory days? You better, ’cause it is gonna be a loooooooong time before you and your bigoted ilk will be in charge again.
paybacks are SUCH a bitch…. and the next four years are gonna be so.much.fun.
Outlander:
You think this is a discussion board?
Not anymore. It was set up as a discussion board, true enough. But it’s been long since hijacked, and “pack mentality” is entirely accurate.
Instead we got a fairly small number of posters who dominate posting (70-80%, I’d guess), who see this board as their personal playground and delight in driving off anyone who disagrees with them. To these folks (you know exactly who you are) it’s about keeping score, being witty, and yes, it’s quite personal.
Discussion board? In your dreams.
You probably know that Connie Morris is out KFG. And I believe the majority of the BOE just swinged to the moderates.
Two Conservatives kept their post though.
But enough about me.
How about you? heheheh
How about you, little boy? Let’s chat for a moment here about being out of step.
Jesus tap dancing Christ. CONNIE MORRIS LOST in hillbilly land out here in western kansas. And if the snake handlers out HERE vote her down… heheh…. november is gonna be so.much.fun.
How does it feel this morning jackass? How does it feel to be so OUT OF STEP you lost the kansas board of evangelicals majority, and you put jim and his little dog susan up as the raw meat for the sebelius machine?? How does it feel loser boy?
FOUR.MORE.YEARS ASSHOLE!!!!!!!!!!
Go whine and cry to your mommy and to terry, joe and fred, and hell, maybe YOU are the fourth horseman of hate. Go cry to the kansas gop, the one that let you down. Go cry in your cheap ass republican beer. Go whine to oliely and fux news. Go cry that the “glorious republican revolution” is OVAH!!!
I only have one word for you and yours this morning.
Loser.
And in case you didnt hear me before… FOUR.MORE.YEARS.
You and yours are so bad you cant even defeat less than chatty kathy. Susan and big jim are gonna be so much fun to watch as they melt down and make increasingly stupid statements as their hypocricy and lunacy are help up for all the world to see.
I am willing to bet they will make ever increasing outrageous statements to smear governor leadership instead of talking about the real issues.
I predict they will scream GOD, GUNS, and GAYS over and over as their numbers drop and drop.
I predict NO ONE will know their ass from a hole in the ground about water policy and the looming disaster that sebelius is creating. I further predict that jim and susan are too stupid to bring up water issues. Instead, they will dance the god, guns and gays dance ever faster as their chances for winning become ever slimmer.
You evangelical kookaide drinkers outta be ashamed to have botched this election for the GOP. Oh, and ya better be prayin’ hard today too.
God aint gonna like how you evangelicals blew the lead you had amongst people of “faith” heheheh! I think you and yours have let him down and now you are reaping what you have sown.
FOUR.MORE.YEARS.
And I noticed kay “women should never have gotten the vote” oconnor lost. And I see eric “you arent a real republcian” carter lost. Hmmmm……
See a trend here pauly boy? IT is called “out of touch with the mainstream”.
But we are amused paul, and we do encourage you to try again.
hehehehehehehh
GMC, you are so predicatble you are not any fun anymore. You have moved on to the “annoying one trick pony” designation.
Gmc will always, predictably, whine about civility and pack mentality and lead us to believe he is the only civilized human on this blog.
Gmc, if you hate this blog so much, why do you continue to post? Why do you even read it? Do you have a hidden blood lust in that you secretly love the virtual blood shed but are too afraid to say so? Do you get some vicarious thrill from watching others say stupid things and then get their just rewards?
Like todd says about people who hate kansas, “why do you live here?” If this blog is so unimportant, uninteresting, and uncivilized, why do you come here?
I notice you whine at every opportunity that we are not “nice” enough for someone of YOUR caliber.
Could you get a differnt tape loop and run it once in a while? Or perhaps you might be more comfortable on some nice, christian, GUN blog?
Either leave or quitcher bitchin’ ya whiner. You have threatened in a huff before that you were leaving because you were bored.
Please have the integrity to follow through on your threats, would ya?
Outlander -We are not ‘ganging up’ on Paul. We are pointing out his fallicies, his misquotes and his general assinine behavior. We are also defending our friend, one of our own (however KFG does hold her own rather well).
Viva la yardbird!!!!
hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee
…and thanks to all those who defended me. It is nice to have friends.
Notice how pauly and our favorite butler county prosecutor, gmc, think the fact that they have no friends here is a badge of honor? heheh.
I bet when they were kids, their mammas had to tie a pork chop around their pencil necks so that the damn DOG would play with them.
I, on the other hand, am blessed with many friends. Paul, you might be interested to know that 200 people, mostly conservative republican christians, came to a public meeting to support me and defend me last year. They loved what I did for the county on water issues.
hehehe. And now that I am gone?
The Trego County Attorney, who led the charge against me, just LOST the Cedar Bluff lawsuit, partly because he couldnt even file all the required paperwork on time.
Jesus wept.
But please, continue to tell me how friends arent important, how having friends means “pack mentality”…
…and about how civilized attorneys like you can be. As for me….
….I’ll wait in the car with my friends while you continue to try to kick someone’s ass with only one leg.
Funny and sad at the same time to watch you gmc. you and paul must be the most lonely people in the world.
Julie: I have to disagree. It is pack behavior. I notice that only when someone has opinions that are a little too close to home do they get jumped on by the pack (via a couple of leaders). For instance, Ian posts racist stuff that most would agree is extreme (sorry dude, but you are racist) Yet, it don’t see a bunch trying to run him off. See any inconsistency there?
And you are correct, kfg doesn’t need anyone’s help.
being witty
Ya know gmc, you bring that up all the time. You talk about how being witty, turning a cute phrase, or being good with words is a bad thing.
Are you just jealous? Um, ’cause, I see you being kind of a quart low here on wit and humor and telling a story or making a point so people either remember or are entertained, or both.
How’s that dry, butler county prosecutorial delivery working for YOU?
thought so……
Dont be mad at the rest of us ’cause we are better with words than you are.
And just a little piece of advise?
You would be wittier and funnier if you took that big stick out of your……
Outlander -Ian is well…Ian. We know he’s a trainwreck but it’s still fun to watch. Ian isn’t a proll (but he does tend to shill). Ian is a known entity that spouts white supremism.
Paul came in and attacks posters using the rush o’hannity line of offense. He can’t keep his story straight on his background. He’s associated with ‘leaders’ that have lied about political candidates with differing views.My grandmother always told me that you can tell a lot about a person by their friends and associates. From what I’ve seen of Mr. Rosell’s associates – I have no desire to be one of them.
I personally am honored that KFG and JR call me friend.
Outlander?
You can call it a pack mentality if you like.
I don’t think there is a single poster on this forum who I have not at one time or another defended from a misconception, baseless shot, lie, or other nasty attack.
I call that helping the forum maintain a little credibility.
A person I know and respect was unfairly attacked. I stood up for her. I have done the same for you, GMC, and anyone else who wants to complain about it.
Outlander! You do have a point. The gang metality is when somebody is a strong conservative comes out with a point and somebody counters that point and there is usually an audience that sides with one person. It’s a little ganged up, but nobody is beaten. This blog is heavily Democrat sided though, so that’s expected.
About Ian, Ed, JR, and those guys. Most people just ignore them. We know where they are coming from and that that don’t have much to say but bigoted comments. I poke at them once in awhile, but for the most part, just let them go and most people on here do.
heheheheh
“For instance, Ian posts racist stuff that most would agree is extreme (sorry dude, but you are racist)”
No argument there.
However, I find myself having some affection for Ian because of how pointantly he writes about his “kinder” and his wife and his dogs. He has expressed kindness and generosity here to others in times of distress. He seems genuine if misguided. (Heh, sorry Ian)
But you know why most of us dont try to run him off (after the first few tries anyway :)?
Because he is often funny. Even when he is outrageous or bigoted, he can be funny, he comes up with good quotes, and we always see his realness and his humanity, even if we dont always like it.
And with both Ian and Ed, what you see is what you get. They dont try to pretend to be something they are not. They are what they are, and they leave it to us to accept or not accept it.
And like it or not, sometimes they are right, and that makes us uncomfortable. It makes us wonder if we harbor some of those same feelings. It makes us look into our own souls and see what is, and is not, there.
At first I was outraged by Ian, and then I was outraged by Ed. But dammit, even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and you cant deny the kernals of truth sometimes in what is said.
And if ALL of us loved this country as much as Ian does, and had served it like he has, america would be much better served.
Ed has also shown us his human side. Even if we dont agree with his rants, he is a genuine person, and time is proving him correct on many things about Israel.
If I had a choice between drinking beer with Ed and Ian or outie and gmc… I wouldnt have much of a decision there, now would I?
And here is Joe Williams!
Tired of calling me names and lying about me on that other thread Joe?
Hey Joe got a trifecta! He got a shot in on three people in one post. And none of them had even mentioned HIM here.
Thanks julie. Back atchya!
hee hee hee, and just for the record, I was amused by the proll’s pissy hissy fit. I did not feel attacked. Just like a mosquito is annoying, not an attack.
…and did I mention FOUR.MORE.YEARS paul gets to contemplate the failings of the ks gop?
Thanks, KFG.
I rest my case.
Uh….ya didn’t make one counselor.
Yeah JR, but I am sure he convinced the dry, boring, religious, gun totin’, humorless stick in the mud lawyer readers out there….
…and I noticed he didnt answer my questions about why he stays if we and the blog are so awful….
Trego County? I go there every once in awhile. To WaKenney.
KFG -
I’ll say this for the last time: I don’t, and won’t, respond to you. Period. I won’t be baited. I won’t answer “questions,” etc.
I’ll say my piece and move on.
Besides, you always go out of your way to confirm my position on you and your posse anyway. Thanks again.
yer welcome
hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee
Williams, Collyer is located between Quinter and WaKeeney.
…and did I mention it is the home of the Collyer Cafe?
heheheheheheheh
Thanks for the set up…..
Oh, and one more thing.
I noticed gmc was whining about civility even when I hadnt posted for four days last weekend.
I was gratified to know that I am not the only poster he thinks is beneath him. It seems to be his m.o. or his fall back position.
I love it when he doesnt respond. Let’s see who else he wont respond to or acknowledge. Maybe if there are enough of us…
KFG, Can I be part of your “posse”?
GMC, you are so full of yourself. You think you’re being ganged up on? Maybe it’s just that you’re so far off the scale, it makes everybody come after you. Or maybe it’s that you don’t bring anything to the discussion but snotty insults.
Unleash the purple Chicken!
Saddle up partner!
GMC is funny!GMC: “I’ll say this one last time.” You mean until the next time? This aint the first time.
GMC: “I don’t and won’t respond to you.” Read all about me NOT responding to you in this post!
GMC clearly will not be baited by kfg. That is why he came back to tell her!
GMC: “I’ll say my piece and move on” Piece of what?
Guess ya meant peace.
You COULD always reverse that ya know. You could move on and THEN say your peace…..or piece!
GMC is almost NEVER funny. Let’s help him with that!
Posse? Yeehaw! I can work with that.
Lets see change an o to a u and an e to y in GMC’s last sentence!
I think my edit of your piece is better than the original submission GMC!
“Besides, you always go out of your way to confirm my position on you and your p.ss. anyway. Thanks again.”
See GMC? You can be funny! You just need a little help!
heheheheheheh
KFG! Next time I’m up that way, I’ll eat at the cafe. What are their hours? Sometimes these small cafes are closed on Sundays or more days a week. I would like to be there went it opens.
I’ll be there this month sometime.
I’ll send ya an email with the details Joe. Our website is down right now. I’d love to feed ya!
I can’t.
It’s TOO easy.
SO I’ll just get this one back in circulation again.
Sam,”RD..Hitler was definately anti-Christian in action…”Probably, probably, but he certainly played well to the anti-semitic prejudices in the christian community of his day, and still seems to be doing it today to some segments of it (note Mel Gibson’s remarks).