There’s been a weird role reversal among traditional backers and opponents of increasing the minimum wage. The AFL-CIO has been pushing to kill the minimum wage bill before the U.S. Senate, while nearly the entire business lobby has demanded that it pass, The Washington Post reported.
Organized labor opposes the increase because it is linked to a cut in the estate tax, which could reduce federal revenue and lead to cuts in programs for the poor. Businesses groups, such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, are now willing to accept the wage increase if it means they get the estate-tax reduction and other targeted tax cuts.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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159 Comments
This bill is the exact reason why it should be illegal for congress to pass bills with more than one law.
They take a perfectly good law like raising the minimum wage and stick in a right wing baby bill like cutting estate tax.
The estate tax is the exact thing that Bill Gates and Warren Buffet support, so you know the rest of the Republican party wants it gone…
It is only fair for a decrease in taxes so that there will be more money left over in the minimum wage increase.
Weird? I doubt that. The package needs to be dropped and rewritten so no “rider”, read tax break for the super rich, can tag along. Of course business likes it: it gives them a major tax break. And of course the unions don’t like it because of the above: nothing weird about it. It’s the sameo sameo from the pro-business, anti worker Republican led congress. Dump em all and get people who actually care about the average man in there.
Looks like the little people will suffer. Democrats don’t care about raising minimum wage. They care more about punishing rich people than raising minimum wage.
That is what turns me so off from the Democrat Party. You had a chance to raise it, but find it more important to keep rich people paying more taxes.
Raising the estate tax, keeping it the same, or lowering it doesn’t give a damn penny to the minimum wage earner. They are not co-related.
Should the uber rich estates get tax breaks? They shelter their money anyways, plus it doesn’t effect that many people. The estate tax doesn’t have teeth or produce any significant tax revenue for the government.
But it is the thought of it. The class warfare. And the poor people (minimum wage earners) suffer.
This was a brilliant strategy from the Republican Party. They showed what the Democrat Party is really all about. The Democrat Party wants to punish corporations and rich people. They don’t care about raising minimum wages or health care reform.
You could have a bill that gave everybody universial government healthcare. But in that bill, you reduce the rich income tax from 38% to 35% and the Democrats would vote it down.
Your Democrat Politicans aren’t very bright! They think by having the perception of punishing rich people will give them more votes. It won’t.
Joe, it’s called throwing the baby out with the bath water, which is exactly what all of the previous tax cuts have done. Why do you think we have the highest deficit ever recorded, brighten up!
Unfortunately, labor unions can only pretend to be relevant at this point. The “global economy” shellgame we are playing right now has gutted their influence. Maybe when we have the same standard of living that they have in Mexico, they’ll come back.
Steve! You’re wrong!
It’s! Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
But Democrats are the baby killers this time around.
Just admit the class warfare mentality. You hate rich people!
Steve, brighten up yourself. We have a deficit because of spending, not because of lower tax revenues. Tax revenues are running above all expectations. Get over your hate of those more successfull than yourself. Don’t be like JR.
Hate rich people?What a spin!!Gettin dizzy from that one Joe?
Democrats are pro-Joe, not anti-Warren Buffet.
Then why did they vote against raising the minimum wage Tracy?
Where is the Pro-Joe?
Of course its class warfare Joe. You say it like a person should be ashamed of it.If one group of people tries to suppress subjugate enslave or control another group they should be called on it.The taliban do bad things , the rich do bad things.Should we sit silently and suffer under the weight of their oppression? If poverty is a good thing,how come more country clubs aren’t promoting it.I know this is a silly sounding argument, so is kissing the ass of the rich. Well except for maybe Paris Hilton’s ass….
Joe- Maybe, just maybe it might have something to do with what also was attached to the bill- Huh?
.morg
Please explain this “suppression” thing. How has any rich person “supressed” you or anyone you know?
And yeah, you should be ashamed of it. All it amounts to is finding a way to blame someone else for ones own failings and bad decisions.
Heckler and Joe, you both know the story, why play ignorant?The repugnicans purposely threw these two complete opposites together for indefensable selfish political and financial motives.Disgusting and immoral.And you try to turn it around to seem like the unskilled worker is just being a good for nothing selfish asshole. Yeah right.I am in charge of my own destiny and will take the blame for any failings of my own, but that does not mean that middle class workers who are paying their taxes should tolerate more and more tax cuts for the extremely wealthy.BTW, I work for a man who is extremely wealthy and I do not hate him or anyone else for their waelth. Money is an inanimate object and not evil. Giving more breaks to the rich should not be tied in any way to the minimum wage issue and you know it. However you will spin this just like the people who attached this to the bill.Sure, let’s vote on these issues.Seperately.
oh, and it’s not suppression, I believe maybe exploitation?
Promoting policies that force a segment of the society to work multiple low wage jobs without any benefits and hope for advancement is suppression.
Definition of suppression (noun)a forcible putting or keeping down
“Last night featured all of the predictable rhetoric and arguments, but my nominee for the dumbest comment of the debate comes by way of Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-Texas):
“[W]e are turning our back on the middle-class and poor people in this country who depend on the minimum wage and death-tax relief.”
First, if Hutchison and the rest of the GOP are worried about low-income workers who need a minimum-wage increase, they can join Dems and support a free-standing bill.
Second, if Hutchison can find a single poor person who depends on “death-tax relief,” I’ll campaign on her behalf.
–Guest Post by Steve Benen, The Carpetbagger Report
What he said!
Tracy
Spare me the moral indignation. The Democrats are masters of tacking things on to bills to make political statements. Politics as usual, get over it. You know if we all pushed real hard for the Fair Tax we could eliminate the ability of Congress to give “tax breaks for the rich”.
.morg
I didnt ask for definitions I asked for examples.
Tracy
Spare me the moral indignation. The Democrats are masters of tacking things on to bills to make political statements. Politics as usual, get over it. You know if we all pushed real hard for the Fair Tax we could eliminate the ability of Congress to give “tax breaks for the rich”.
.morg
I didnt ask for definitions I asked for examples. Show me the rich person that’s keeping you down.
I’m not sparing you the TRUTH.
I’m not sparing you the TRUTH.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05133/504149.stm
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4662456
http://www.rluxemburg.com/archives/000537.html
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2005/Rich-Poor-Gap13may05.htm
For those interested in finding out a little bit more about class mobility moving up or down the socio-economic ladder
I sell my skilled labor to a wealthy person. So what?Does that mean that he (they) should not have to help shoulder the same burden?BTW, he is a VERY generous man.
Joe:Should the uber rich estates get tax breaks? They shelter their money anyways, plus it doesn’t effect that many people. The estate tax doesn’t have teeth or produce any significant tax revenue for the government.
At current deficit, every little bit helps, and estate tax is quite sizable and significant revenue for the govt. Besides, are we still burying riches with our deads nowadays? They’re dead, a burial place is all they require! Estate tax is simply another windfall profit tax.
As for exploitation by the rich, now that’s a public secret! Chicago Martyrs are just an example. Now their memory is honored worldwide during May Day.
It is so HARD being a persecuted majority….
Heckler?
“Get over your hate of those more successful than yourself. Don’t be like J R.”
Well Heckler I don’t hate people more successful than myself. I hate people who have no compassion for those who are less successful than myself. I also don’t have a lotta love for those who mine THEIR future under the desk of the next white collar toady up the ladder!
And of course there’s the latest transmission from dimension Joe Williams.Your class warfare take on this would not explain why Bill Gates is FOR the estate tax.
DO keep posting as to this! It is important for folks to KNOW that the poorest of the poor are allowed a raise if and ONLY IF the richest of the super rich get to take theirs with ‘em.
Yup the Republican party. The party of people getting paid as little as possible and loving it! Sell it boys!
Tracy
Why should there even be an estate tax? If a person has worked and built a business and created jobs and paid taxes all his/her life why should the government get a dime of the estate? What makes that “right”? Why shouldnt that person be able to give that estate to anyone they want to?
The Estate Tax kills jobs. A successfull business owner can’t pass the business on to the kids because they have to sell off half the business to pay the estate tax. What makes that right?
“If a person has worked and built a business and created jobs and paid taxes all his/her life why should the government get a dime of the estate? What makes that “right”? Why shouldnt that person be able to give that estate to anyone they want to?”
I’m beginning to think this is an urban myth. How many jobs do the rich really create? This saintly lot that finds any way it possibly can to avoid taxes.
JR
What’s the matter, bitter because you went under the desk and got laid off anyway.
Your posts just drip with disdain for “white collar” types. What’s your story?
Heckler?
You are gonna need to better define yourself.
Are you just an uninformed ditto head slob who buys the lies you are posting ? Or, are you REALLY in favor of moving this country toward a feudal type society.
I don’t wann be too harsh with you until I understand whether you are just simply deceived by all that “death tax” nonsense from talk radio, or whether you REALLY understand an believe what you are posting.
I hit a nerve Heckler?
I’ve never been under a desk in my life.
But my disdain for brown nosers grabbed ya.
See yourself in that did you?
Heckler–BS.I know a man personnaly, who turned his life’s work and home owned business over to his son without paying one red cent.They just disolved the company and opened it under “new ownership” the very next day!IN FACT, local gov’t gave them tax defferment for being a ‘new’ company in town (10 yrs tax free).AND threw in a bunch of money for capital improvement. If you are wondering yes they are repugnicans, but that is not the point.It is so HARD being a persecuted majority….
My story Heckler?
I got one for ya about the so called “death tax”.
My grandparents had a 100 acre farm. When the died the estate was valued at around 300,000 dollars. Tax on that estate? 0 dollars.
The estate tax doesn’t even kick in till after 6 million. The estate tax is just a little repayment for the tax breaks the family got while the head of the family was alive. Ask Bob Dole how many hundreds of millions of dollars he saved the Gallo wine family.
Heck, can you give us at least one specific example where someone has has to sell the biz or the farm because of estate taxes?
Since both of my parents are gone and I am an only child, I am wondering if it is true or an urban myth.
Certainly OUR family farm was not big enough or valuable enough to have to sell something to pay the taxes.
And any biz big enough to be sold to pay ESTATE taxes would surely be a corporation where STOCK would transfer, not the “business” as such.
That crap about buisinesses having to be sold to pay the estate tax is the spew of talk radio kfg.
I wonder why Heckler buys it? I wonder why he is trying to sell it?
Heck? You got an aunt with a 6,000,001 dollar estate?
How is this your fight?
This is all a re-hash.. I posted this once before…
http://www.sptimes.com/News/040901/news_pf/Worldandnation/Debunking_the_myth__E.shtml
Main Entry: heck·lePronunciation: ‘he-k&lFunction: transitive verbInflected Form(s): heck·led; heck·ling /-k(&-)li[ng]/
Etymology: Middle English hekelen to dress flax, scratch, from heckele hackle; akin to Old High German hAko hook — more at HOOK
: to harass and try to disconcert with questions, challenges, or gibes : BADGERsynonym see BAIT
- heck·ler /-k(&-)l&r/ noun
“How is this your fight?”
: to harass and try to disconcert with questions, challenges, or gibes : BADGERsynonym see BAIT
- heck·ler /-k(&-)l&r/ noun
1 Gates, William Henry III 51,000 49 Medina, WA Microsoft2 Buffett, Warren Edward 40,000 75 Omaha, NE Berkshire Hathaway3 Allen, Paul Gardner 22,500 52 Seattle, WA Microsoft, investments4 Dell, Michael 18,000 40 Austin, TX Dell5 Ellison, Lawrence Joseph 17,000 61 Silicon Valley, CA Oracle6 Walton, Christy 15,700 50 Jackson, WY Wal-Mart inheritance6 Walton, Jim C 15,700 57 Bentonville, AR Wal-Mart8 Walton, S Robson 15,600 61 Bentonville, AR Wal-Mart9 Walton, Alice L 15,500 56 Fort Worth, TX Wal-Mart10 Walton, Helen R 15,400 86 Bentonville, AR Wal-Mart11 Ballmer, Steven Anthony 14,000 49 Redmond, WA Microsoft12 Anthony, Barbara Cox 12,500 82 Honolulu, HI Cox Enterprises12 Chambers, Anne Cox 12,500 85 Atlanta, GA Cox EnterprisesHere’s the short list for the rich folks if your worried about them I’m sure they will accept donations. The numbers are in millions
ksfarmgrrl
EXAMPLE: Brittain Machine. Dewey Brittain went to work in the aircraft business straight out of school. Didnt like taking orders so he started a shop in his garage making airplane parts on contract. Ended up building a business worth,depending on who was doing the estimating, 20-40 million dollars. Two of his kids worked for him for many years.
Now I cant say for a fact that he sold it by choice or necessity rather than passing it to his kids, but passing on a capital intensive business like that would require the sale of roughly half of the buildings and machines(the parts arent worth near as much when you have to sell them piecemeal) to raise the money to pay the estate tax.
No link Heckler?
20-40 million dollars you say?
Hmmmmmm I wonder how many abatements on taxes your character received over the years for his equipment and infrastructure?
I wonder how many contracts he was awarded because his was a “small” business?
I could ask more but I don’t even know if your example is valid.
The estate tax and minimum wage fights are complete losers for the Republicans when voters are fully informed. I DO hope the GOP keeps selling their position. I’ll just be over here better explaining it!
Joe Williams,
“The estate tax doesn’t have teeth or produce any significant tax revenue for the government.”
What do you consider “significant”? Did you read the WaPo link at top of thread?”The proposed reduction in the estate tax would lower federal tax revenue by $268 billion over the next decade, according to one estimate.”
http://www.ombwatch.org/estatetax/background.phtml“Reduction in revenues: Over $900 billion in lost revenue over 20 years.”
See also points on equity, wealth, and CHARITABLE giving incentives.
The bill was designed NOT to pass. It was for producing election-year campaign sound bites.R’s can now brag they tried to repeal the “death tax”, but the D’s blocked it. (Less than 1% of estates pay any tax at all.)
R’s can brag they offered a minimum wage increase, but the D’s voted it down.
Lazy, gullible voters wont research any deeper than the sound bites.
JR
You are such a dumbass sometimes.
What link were you expecting?
Brittain Machine right here in good old Wichita. Still in business but just barely from what I hear. Sold to some “investment group”.
If your looking for info on the sale that might be hard to come by because it was a private sale not a corporate transaction.
The man paid boatloads of taxes, including payroll taxes. He employed hundreds of people. What makes it right for the government to take 38 % of it?
Calling me a Liar? Carry on with you hate filled little life dumbass.
Heckler,
Try using facts when you argue.
1. What’s the estate tax on 20 million?
Dude, I don’t know. But I doubt it is going to be 50 percent as you claim.
2. GMC who’s a practicing attorney claims the estate tax can be easily avoided by estate planning. (That’s why he’s against it.) Well, okay. So this guy could have given pieces of the company to his kids as deeds of gift or something. Or sold it to them for a dollar.
The point is that government taxes are not as bad as people claim they are. If they were, people couldn’t afford to pay them.
I’d much rather make a ton of money and pay taxes than make nothing and pay nothing.
Wouldn’t you?
You know what makes me sick?The fact that I don’t have to pay $100,000 in taxes every year.That’s what makes me sick.
Heckler?
No, I didn’t call you a liar. You posted a story I asked for more. See that’s called debate.
“Carry on with your hate filled little life dumbass.”
Seems the anger and hate are on your end Heck!
I wonder why that is?
Probably because of the frequent but figurative ass kickings you get here huh?
J R grabs Heckler’s cheeks and plants a great big muuawwww Bugs Bunny kiss on Hecklers forehead!
You’re funnier when you are banging your head on the driveway Heck!
The purpose of the estate tax aside from raising revenue is to redistribe wealth. This is to prevent us from becoming a country where the land is all owned by a select few (inherited down from generations) as has been the case in some European countries. Most times just the number of heirs divide the wealth enough not to create a problem. The question then becomes at what level does the government tax the estate to redistribute wealth?
As to minimum wage while on the surface it may sound like it would help the marginally employed, increases don’t always accomplish that intent. First, it will eliminate some employment, however generally this effects part-time students more than anyone else. The major effect is the addtional cost of labor will be passed on in the increase cost of the goods or services produced. So if the employee receives a increase due to minimum wage yet everything he purchases cost more where is the benefit?
outlandr
I didnt claim that the estate tax was 50%! READ.
Let me explain. A healthy business is usually worth more than the sum of it’s parts. In my example, a machine shop, you have lot’s of capital equipment, several different plots of land with multiple buildings. Say you have to come up with $5 million to pay the estate taxes on a $20 million dollar business. Where you gonna pull that out of? You either have to borrow it or sell off assets to raise it. So you start selling pieces that arent worth as much as pieces than they are as part of the business. You end up selling so many pieces that all of a sudden you can’t do the same work you used to do and all of a sudden your $20 million business dwindles to less than half of what it used to be. Makes more sense to sell it for $20 million if you can get it.
Heckler’s estate tax example, in 1998,
http://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/stories/1998/05/04/story2.html“Brittain Machine was not on the market, but officials at Compass came to Wichita and made Dewey Brittain an offer. And since the 70-year-old owner and founder was preparing for retirement, the timing made sense, said Mike Brittain, Dewey’s son.”
Thank goodness Kansas Republicans fought hard to give Paris Hilton a tax cut. Paris will have worked hard for her parents to die so she can get millions. On the other hand those working for minimum wage are making way too much and deserve that pay cut that they’ll get if this bill passed.
Right now they are making $5.15 and this bill would have reduced that down to $4.15 in some states because tips would be included where they previously weren’t. Kansas doesn’t have to worry about that because Kansas still has a minimum wage lower than the national.
There was a time Kansas was an anti-slavery state, now we’re just a “as close to slavery as you can get” state. Maybe Tiahrt, Brownback and Roberts think if pay is so poor in America then we’ll flood over to Mexico for better paying jobs.
Heckler,
As Ksams link shows, the number of buisinesses affected as you portray is vanishlingly small.
There was a Senator or Congressman a few years ago who commented on this sort of thing. I wish I could remember the name and the quote.
He said something to the effect that if his kids couldn’t figure out how to run his 10 million dollar buisiness after he died, they probably didn’t deserve to! And he was speaking personal experience on his own estate!
DO keep selling this Republicans!
Yours is the party of the the super greedy getting greedier and please boss can I have a raise! SELL IT!
Cosmos
You’ll note that I qualified my example with this-”Now I cant say for a fact that he sold it by choice or necessity rather than passing it to his kids”.
It is simply an example of a very valuable small business that would have probably had to be broken up to pay the estate taxes had it been passed on to his kids.(like if he had died)
Joe,Did you not see this thread?http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2006/08/their_cheating_.html#commentsIt illustrated that there are many millionaire democrats in the Senate and House.
So, are you saying these dems hate themselves and are looking to punish themselves?
Joe, when I read the first two sentences of your post, I knew immmediately who was posting even though I couldn’t see your name. Your predicatability on this subject is astonishing.
Heckler,
Can you find an example of a family business or farm that had to be “broken up”.
It doesn’t seem as bad as you claim, payments can be spread out over 14 years, etc..’Estate Tax Malarkey’http://www.factcheck.org/article328.html
Heckler, Brittan probably had a hard time competing against Chinese machine shops or vendors manufacturing in China.Assuming the bulk of their business was aircraft and for the lowest bid.
Dear Darrell Duncan:“The question then becomes at what level does the government tax the estate to redistribute wealth?”
Good question- but are you stipulating that an estate tax has no benefit or are you only concerned with the arithmetic of who and how much?
“First, it will eliminate some employment, however generally this affects part-time students more than anyone else”
This is a fairy-tale told by neo-con economist. Look to history and you will find no real decline in employment, part-time or full-time, when the minimum wage was increased.
“The major effect is the additional cost of labor will be passed on in the increase cost of the goods or services produced. So if the employee receives an increase due to minimum wage yet everything he purchases cost more where is the benefit?”
This maybe true if the recipient of the minimum wage purchased only goods and services produced by minimum wage workers. If the goods and services are being produced by those who earn above the minimum wage then the purchasing power of the minimum wage worker has marginally increased.
Heckler,
Read the son’s statement again. Does it say anything about selling to avoid estate tax? Does the son sound disappointed that the business was sold? It seems you’re trying to read something into this that isn’t there to back up your story. Or, in other words, trying to CYA.
cosmos
I could probably dig up some examples but let me ask you this?
What makes the estate tax fair? Someone works hard their whole life, paying taxes, creating jobs, building a business. What makes it right for the government to touch a penny of it? What makes it right for the government to tax what has already been taxed?
“First, it will eliminate some employment, however generally this effects part-time students more than anyone else.”
Unless the law has changed in the past 25-30, and I admit it could have, part-time jobs do not have to meet the minimum wage.
(And the word is “affects,” not “effects.” But don’t feel bad. I still have to stop and think about it.)
cosmos, Thanks for the link.
Wouldn’t it be true that families owning businesses valued at greater than $20 million have more choices than minimum wage workers?
Why should the interests of these two groups (one fairly small in number) be conflated?
I don’t see the point of arguing that the interests of the two groups are equal.
I am inclined to see the argument that millionaires need the intervention of the government as “class warfare” waged against poor people. A strategy that I don’t think is going to continue to work for conservative Republicans.
RD
I knew them both, I worked for them for 3 years. I knew Mikes sister, she’d worked there for years as well.
As I said before, I can’t say that estate taxes were the reason Dewey sold it instead of passing it on. I simply gave it as a prime example of the type of business that could be destroyed by estate taxes.
If I’m reading something into it at least it’s based on personal knowledge of the people involved.
Well dude, right now it’s the law.We are a Democratic nation of laws.The law reflects (ideally) the peoples will, and therefore it would be deemed what is morally accepted by the majority of the American people and the elected officials that represent us.THAT’S WHAT MAKES IT RIGHT.
NEXT?
TRACY
COPOUT!
TRACY
You need to study some history and civics. Last I checked we were a Representive Republic. Our founders expressly despised “Democracies” recognizing that in “Democracies” the rights of minorities get trampled on.
NEXT?
And your prior disclaimer and subsequent distancing, from the machine shop story, which by the way, you WERE USING TO SUPPORT the discontinuance of the tax, further shows that you are being disingenous about that example when you brought it up.NOBODY WENT BROKE BECAUSE OF SOME EVIL TAX IMPOSED BY THE DEMS.If anything, that company and everyone involved in that transaction have done quite well.YOU KNEW THAT, and attempted to misrepresent the whole sale anyway.And I say, GOOD DAY, to you sir.
And if THE LAW is a “cop-out”.Then I intend to cop-out to the letter, for the rest of my days.
Ok everybody Conga line over Heckler!
What a TWIT.TWIT ALERT–TWIT ALERT.
This guy is arguing for the rights of the downtrodden minoritiesANDthe repeal of this tax for the super wealthyIn the same string of (logic)?
I’m done.Somebody get out of the car,I’m gettin’ in the back for a quick nap!
JR, you ass (humor)You had me laughing so loud the neighbors are worried.
TRACY
What did I misrepresent? KFG stated that she doubted the types of companies that could be wiped out by the estate tax didnt exist. I gave a perfect example, and I could give a dozen more examples of companies like it right here in Wichita. I could probably give a few examples of ones out in her neck of the woods as well.
What no one here has done is show that I am wrong. Or how taxing what has already been taxed is right.
Readers are invited to imagine Heckler as the conga line commences over him
Everybody else:
Dun dun dundun dun
Heckler “oof!”
Dundun dundun dun
Heckler: “ack!”
Dundun dundun dun
Heckler: “unghh!”
Heckler, read “Double Tax?” at http://www.factcheck.org/article328.html
If the estate tax causes the break up of businesses like you claim, examples should be easy to find, being pushed by those who want the repeal it. You claim it, you prove it.
cosmos
Are you saying that a capitol intensive business like the machine shop I cited would not be severly damaged by the estate tax? If that’s what you are saying then explain how I am wrong.
$20 million business. I believe the estate tax applies to the value above $3 million.(40 percent I believe) That works out to 6.8 million dollars. Pay it over 14 years you say? Do I have to pay interest on the balance carried? Takes a huge chunk out of my profits. How the hell do I do that cosmos?
This will be just like the swift boat thread. Heckler will get his cockeyed point of view soundly trounced and still claim he won!
Really Heckler If you are gonna shovel this stuff so eagerly you oughtta change your nic to “Hoaxler”! You could wear loud tights and drive a Hoaxmobile back to Hoax headquarters!
Conga!!!
Hankler(JR)
Your getting your ass kicked again and don’t even know it. All you want to do is dance.
Go bang your head on your driveway and watch cartoons Hoaxler! Get some ideas for a costume!
JR
I gave a perfect example, even did some of the math for you. Show me how I’m wrong.
Oh, that’s right JR doesnt have a clue about running a business.
Never mind.
Well actually Heck I was “running a business” when I was 14. How that is relevant maybe you can say. I don’t think YOU run a business Heckler. You just give us the business here.
Hey go back and read! I’m on your side guy!
I’m just helping you get your message as widely seen and understood as possible!
It is your position that the poorest of the poor…….and consequently everyone else, should get a raise IF and ONLY IF a small number of the richest of the rich get to keep all their money when they die! The end result being a feudal society!
This is a position you share with the Republican party!
Sell it baby sell it!
JR
The poorest of the poor should get a raise when they demonstrate to their employer that they are of greater value than the next guy waiting to do the job.Why the hell do they want to sit around and wait for the government to make them worth more?
I know, capitalism is hell.
And I’m still waiting for someone to tell me how I’m wrong about the example I gave of how the estate tax can kill a business.
And why the hell should someone have to “plan” their estate to protect it for their children?
Because we have a tax code that’s been twisted to manipulate society, not raise money to run legitimate functions of government.
FAIRTAX.org baby!
Heckler doesn’t the estate tax bail out reward wealthy people who haven’t planned adequately?
Why is it that the culture of responsibility and ownership society tenets do not apply to these business owners, but do to minimum wage workers?
corporate welfare = OKminimum wage increase = NOT OK
Hmmm….
Main Entry: heck·lePronunciation: ‘he-k&lFunction: transitive verbInflected Form(s): heck·led; heck·ling /-k(&-)li[ng]/
Etymology: Middle English hekelen to dress flax, scratch, from heckele hackle; akin to Old High German hAko hook — more at HOOK
: to harass and try to disconcert with questions, challenges, or gibes : BADGERsynonym see BAIT
- heck·ler /-k(&-)l&r/ noun
Heckler,
You’re WRONG. AGAIN, give us a REAL example, not fuzzy math and RNC talking points.
Don’t you love how Heckler will fight to the death for Paris Hilton’s right to all her parents mega-millions.
And he shouts down people who want to provide low cost drugs to his aging mother at the expense of big Pharma.
This is why the Republicans rule the world. They get the serfs to cut their own throats and stab each other in the back.
The people we call brother, sister, mother, friend, colleague . . . big business calls them “labor costs.”
cosmos
Demonstrate to me how I’m wrong and quit straw doggin it.
: to harass and try to disconcert with questions, challenges, or gibes : BADGERsynonym see BAIT
- heck·ler /-k(&-)l&r/ noun
How seldom do those who have the time and the leisure serve as do those who have no time or leisure.
Steve Davis
I don’t understand your first point. Could you clarify?
As to corporate welfare, do away with the current tax system and you do away with corporate welfare.
People should do their own minimum wage increase by making themselves more valuable to the people writing the paycheck.
TRACY
I’m still waiting.
Just as money has been in the past the instrument of men’s selfishness, now it must be the instrument of their goodwill.
‘ESTATE TAX AFFECTS VERY FEW FAMILY BUSINESSES’http://www.cbpp.org/6-17-03tax-fact2.htm
Heckler?
You angry frustrated little white collar middy you!
If the minimum wage was abolished tomorrow, you do not think it would affect YOUR salary!
I know you probably service your boss well but face reality! Aint nobody gonna pay 10 bucks for a whore when they can get two at 5!
Relax son! Those union guys who actually DO the work get a raise, you’ll get one for shoutin’ and screamin’ at them how to do it! A rising tide lifts all boats! Right?
TRACY
Is that your version of From each according to his means, To each according to his need?
cosmos
I gave an example of one that would have been drasticlly affected had it not sold. How was my example incorrect?
No answer? That’s because you know I’m right.
JR
My wage is determined by how badly my employer needs my services. Working my ass off to pay my way through college and continuously upgrading my skills have paid off. My boss services me.
JR
Someday my job may be replaced by a software update. So I learn everything I can about other aspects of the business and demonstrating to my boss that I’m valuable to the company in several different ways. It’s not my fault you sat on your ass and expected to draw a union negotiated wage the rest of you life.
JR
That thumping sound you can’t hear is my bosses head banging against the bottom of my desk, begging me to work the weekend so he can meet his commitments.
Heckler uh-huh. I can just see you smilin’ through that last!
I do wish I could post links. There are so many good ones here already.
Somebody should fetch Heckler a link to a poll on these matters. Your take doesn’t sell Heckler. Though I DO hope you and your party continue to try!
Conga!!!
Heckler, understanding your motives is of value and importance, for such an understanding determines intellectually, what factor or factors inspires your daily life. This is a statement worth careful consideration.I would ask you: What is your major actuating motive?For, whatever it may be, it conditions and determines your lasting and dominant life tendency.Are your motives for the good of all, or for the sake of being correct?
Heckler: “How was my example incorrect?”
Hey everybody!!
Heckler:* Seems to believe the BOGUS RNC estate tax talking point.* Thinks it’s OUR responsibility to prove his/her bogus opinion is wrong.* Is UNABLE to provide any credible proof of her/his bogus opinion.* REFUSES to look at links that debunk it.
Ya know, time and exposure allows you to get used to some of the nuts that post here.
I summed up Heckler on this sort of issue a LONG time ago. I went back to look for it. But that archive is not there anymore.
It was a particularly fiery post! Back then, how ANYONE but a misanthropic grade one ass…. could be against an increase in the minimum wage just plain pissed me off. I remember using words like “ass kissser” “well placed nose” etc.
I thought about trying to recreate it. But Heckler doesn’t get me so riled anymore. He’s too easy to blow apart and that is infinitely more fun!So I’ll just do the short version.
Heckler is a miserable person. He wants misery for others. He has convinced himself that if he plays the game one day he’ll get to be a “Playa”. He has suffered and suffers and if it is bad enough for him it can by god be bad for everyone else.
That about get ya Hoaxler?
TRACY
That’s the most intelligent thing you’ve had to say on this whole thread.
I have compassion for those who cannot carry themselves due to disability. I have compassion for young people who have no guiding force in their life to inspire them to be more than become what happens to them.(I hope that makes sense).
I have ZERO compassion for those of sound mind and body who sit around and expect the government to somehow take money from the hard working and successful and use it to make up for their own bad decisions or lack of decisions.
Look around the world. Income redistribution does little more than breed laziness, dependence and weakness.
cosmos
You started out sounding somewhat intelligent. Then you turned into JR.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stAE3PQkxQI
Is this your philosophy heckler?
Caution: may not be work friendly
Heckler, understanding your motives is of value and importance, for such an understanding determines intellectually, what factor or factors inspires your daily life.
This is a statement worth careful consideration.
I would ask you: What is your major actuating motive?For, whatever it may be, it conditions and determines your lasting and dominant life tendency.Are your motives for the good of all,or for the sake of being correct?
So that’s the bottom line.Cutting taxes for the top billionaire and millionaire families in the USA, and increasing minimum wage by $2 is tantamount to free rides for lazy people?
That’s it? That’s the whole thing?
My friend, I am not denying that there are people in the world that will take advantage of gov’t and good people’s generosity. Those people will exist forever.However that simplistic reasoning is not logical for the argument you are pursuing. Doing away with this tax will in no way stop theives from being theives, and liars being liars. It will not even make a scratch in the defecit, let alone a dent.This issue is not about welfare abuse, it is, my good man about principals.I truly wish you the best in sorting out the rights from wrongs in this world. To me, it is a plain as daylight that the repugnican controlled congress has a very misguided set of values, and their motives are anything but pure.
Heckler:”People should do their own minimum wage increase by making themselves more valuable to the people writing the paycheck.”
I agree with the above in principle. A good way for people to do this is to get more education/training. I would be in favor of the government supplementing workers’ efforts to get more education/training. I think this is a win/win solution and one we will never see until after 2008.
Check out cosmos’ link above – it is possible to avoid estate taxation and most who own businesses subject to the tax, do. If you eliminate the tax you are only helping those who are too dumb to do what is necessary to avoid the tax. The fair tax alternative I don’t know enough about to comment on it. I will have to read more.
cosmos is FAR better than me Heckler. He has posted links that blow you apart. This I cannot do.
Hey Heckler! I got a GREAT idea!
Get the GOP to run on abolishing the minimum wage!
As long as you are wrong why not shoot for the Moon?
Cos? TRACY and I can tell you. It doesn’t get any better with Heckler. He has had his ass handed to him so many times so many ways is probably the only reason he can find it! But he will always declare victory…….that or tapdance away.
I’ll return to this thread later. We will see if Heckler ever answers Tracy.
He won’t. But I’ll check anyway.
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?It’s CHICKEN MAN !!
HE’S EVERYWHERE!
HE’S EVERYWHERE!
YOU MEAN THE WINGED WARRIOR!!!!
JR, thanks… and thanks for the background on Heckler.
Heckler,
My patience extends only so far for people who ask for proof, and then refuse to read it.
But everyone here will compare your “example” to my links, and form their own opinion.
I say you prove I’m right, if you’re UNABLE to provide credible, real-life examples. Link(s) please!
Oh I forgot.
Heckler is still on the carpet.
CONGA!!
Heckler,Your basic argument seems to be that an estate tax is unfair because the earnings were already taxed once.I’m not sure there is anything inherently fair about any type of taxation. The company I work for pays income tax on their earnings, then they pay me and I pay income tax on those same dollars. I own stock and some of the income is distributed to me as dividends which I then pay tax on those dollars again. I spend the money I earn and then have to pay sales tax. Taking your “only tax each dollar one time” rational to the extreme… Well every dollar in circulation has been taxed at least once, so none of us should pay any tax at all. What in your estimation makes a taxable event “fair”?
Just reading some of the reponses on this thread. I come to the conclusion that I rest my case. It’s so overwhelmingly evident that my point is right.
Thanks for showing your true selves people.
This topic is over!
Heckler, you never did give an example of a business that was damaged by estate taxes, just an example of one you think MIGHT be damaged.
A person works hard to build a business and pays taxes as they go. but the people on the recieving end didn’t build the business, or got paid for their work in the business. Why should they get a huge inheritance for free?
Explain to me how hard Paris Hilton worked to deserve her inheritance.
Or George W. Bush.
“This maybe true if the recipient of the minimum wage purchased only goods and services produced by minimum wage workers. If the goods and services are being produced by those who earn above the minimum wage then the purchasing power of the minimum wage worker has marginally increased.” Well considering Americans are buying nearly all of their goods from Chinese, guess they would benefit from the .50 cent an hour chinese worker’s labor. You can’t get any more Republican than that!
Thank you for not lending the voice from the world of Joe Williams anymore than ya did Joe!
Heckler has us all “Congoed” out……for now.
XXX
I gave an example of a local company that a man built from a garage business to a large machine shop that had an estimated value of between 20 and 40 million dollars.I don’t know what the true value of that company was or what it actually sold for. But I took the low end value, 20 million and estimated the inheritance taxes his children would have paid on it. I used numbers from a link posted by ksam. The tax I estimated came to 6.8 million dollars. It was my assertion that in order to pay the tax the kids would have had to piece half the company away to come up with the money to pay the taxes.
Not one of your leftwing blog buddies challenged the numbers. Many a straw dog was built and burned but not one challenged the validity of the numbers.
Care to try and explain to me where my numbers are wrong?Care to explain to my by what moral standard its right to take that from the mans children? And yes they did help build the business.
JR’s strutting around like a little bandy rooster saying he handed me my ass again butt he never made one arguement challenging the validity of the numbers. He’s to stupid to realize he just blows hot air.
I hope you can do better.
Heckler you told ONE story.
It is estimated that the repeal of the estate tax will affect approwimately 8,000 people. Some one I am sure can post a link as to that.
Let’s say that for each of those 8,000 people there are the average 2 children and 2 grandchildren. Easy math Heckler. I’m sure you could do it but I’ll spare ya.
8,000 times 2 times 2
That’s 32,000 people.
That is roughly 1% of the US population.
Now YOU justify for ME how the minimum wage which affects the wages of EVERY WORKING PERSON in this country should be held hostage for the benefit of 1 % of the population.
Level with us Heck. Are you a feudalist?
JR, I hope you meant to write 0.01%, or one one-hundreth of a percent!
Heckler,
“Care to try and explain to me where my numbers are wrong?”
I gave you a link explaining that at 11:51 AM, again at 12:40 PM, and a different link at 2:09 PM.You seem to prefer posting rants, instead of reading links that debunk your opinions.
Ahhh Thank you SD!
I made the pool of beneficiaries about a hundred times larger that it would be. I stand corrected. I will ALWAYS admit when I am wrong. PARTICULARLY if it doing so reinforces my own arguement.
Yeah Heck what about cosmos’s links?
Heckler: JR’s strutting around like a little bandy rooster saying he handed me my ass again….”
You meant banty right? Oh but I’m being petty.
Never said I personally handed you your ass Heckler. I give that honor to cosmos and any number of other posters whose links blow you outta the water. I just got ya sloppy and defensive. You know, like I always do!
JR
What about cosmos precious link? Says estate tax affects few people. So what, does that make it right? Does that change the fact that it kills businesses? I suppose that’s alright with you as long as it’s just a ‘few’.
I gave you all a real world example of what could have happened to Brittain Machine had they not sold. Did it occur to any of you GENIUSES that they sold because they knew that they risked bankruptcy by estate tax?
You are a fool JR and not one other poster can step forward and say why I’m wrong.
Heckler you still here?Don’t admit you are wrong, I will.I’m wrong those POOR, POOR people that owned the machine shop must be starving to death.Donations anyone?Being president or vp of the company that’s growing by leaps and bounds must really suck, especially when your dad used too own the place. I wonder what the kids tax returns look like?Good thing we have the earned income credit and other ’safety net’ provisions that those bleading heart libs have us handing out. There’s always free lunches at school for the grandkids! I am wrong and you proved it. From now on I will do everything in my power to prevent this type of communistic approach to gov’t from ever happening again.I’m sure those tax and spend libs have found a way to wrangle away those huge profits from the sale of the company, and given it to the blue collar worker somehow.This income redistribution thing is so sneaky, cunning, baffling and powerful. We need to get a handle on this thing now before it gets out of control and all the wealth ends up in the hands of those lazy cheatin’ crack whores.Formulate a plan and please let me know where I fit in and what I can do to help.P.S. how about a bake sale or a food drive for the former owners family?
TRACY
You spent a whole lot of words saying nothing. Congratulations. I’ll take that as an admition that I was right. Have a great day.
Yep. You’re a real winner!I capitulate.
Main Entry: ca·pit·u·latePronunciation: k&-’pi-ch&-”lAtFunction: intransitive verbInflected Form(s): -lat·ed; -lat·ingEtymology: Medieval Latin capitulatus, past participle of capitulare to distinguish by heads or chapters, from Late Latin capitulum1 archaic : PARLEY, NEGOTIATE2 a : to surrender often after negotiation of terms b : to cease resisting : ACQUIESCE
“I’ll take that as an admition that I was right.”
Main Entry: ad·mis·sionPronunciation: &d-’mi-sh&n, ad-Function: noun1 a : the act or process of admitting b : the state or privilege of being admitted c : a fee paid at or for admission2 a : the granting of an argument or position not fully proved b : acknowledgment that a fact or statement is true- ad·mis·sive
“Heckler, you never did give an example of a business that was damaged by estate taxes, just an example of one you think MIGHT be damaged.”
Come on, Heck. You never answered the original question.1. You don’t know what Brittian was worth.2. You don’t know why they sold it.
Your example isn’t valid to the original question.
Give an example of a business that was damaged by estate taxes. Obviously Brittian Machine wasn’t probated. How was it damaged by estate taxes?
Give it up XXX. Heckler won.
The only person who agrees with Hecklers cockeyed take on this thread where more than a dozen have posted is mighty Joe Williams. And we know that dynamic duo has a corner on credibility! The majority have declared them “drunk” but is we who must lay down!
Links? Statistics? Research? Faa! They are NOTHING to Hecklers mighty half ass presented example!
TRACY asked Heckler a question too XXX. He wanted to know what was Hecklers doggedly dogmatic motivation here. He didn’t get an answer either. Heckler is not required to answer questions! He is right! HE says so!
He IS right you know. The Republican party is the party of them that gots it keeps it and them that don’t must beg the crumbs!
Good points about Heckler, JR, except you left out the “up is down” mindset (and/or lack of reading comprehension).
Heckler posts: “What about cosmos precious link? Says estate tax affects few people. … Does that change the fact that it kills businesses? ”
I guess Heck found “the fact that it kills businesses” here?http://www.cbpp.org/6-17-03tax-fact2.htm“(The American Farm Bureau Federation acknowledged to the New York Times in 2001 that it could not cite a single example of a farm having to be sold to pay estate taxes.)”
Or maybe Heck’s dictionary lists “kills” as a synonym of “affects”?
Great link, Cosmos. Notice how the Left peovides information to back up what they say.
Heck just pulls facts out of his @ss.
Convenient for him X. Since it is so often handed to him.
cosmos
Who said anything about farms? I did’nt. Go tell someone who did.
XXX
I love the way you guys dance around the issue. I gave a real world example that most people around her could relate to. A business that you can drive right down Sheridan street and look at. KFG stated that she didnt believe that there are any family owned businesses big enough to be adverssly affected by the estate tax. I gave a perfect example of one and you could drive around Wichita and find a dozen more just like it without trying.
As for why they sold, only they know that. As for the value of the business, I was there, I can walk through the buildings and add up a pretty good estimate of the value of their capital equipment. I can estimate the value of the real estate pretty easy. The 20 million is the low end of the estimate.
But keep dancing if it feels good.
JR
Ignorance can be fixed, stupid can’t. Your screwed.
Diving under his boss’s desk, Heckler sheds his identity as a badly mannered often ridiculed poster.In a puff of foul smelling smoke and with a sound like a fart in a bathtub he becomes Hoaxler!
Yes Hoaxler! Strange liar from his own reality! Purveyor of the absurd and defender of same! Faster than a GOP talking point! Stronger than a paper towel! Able to leap tall truth in a single bouund!
Hoaxler: I see my arguement here is winning! Time to finish them off!
Dancing past unanswered questions, Hoaxler dodges cosmos. He says nyah nayah to XXX and calls JR names!
Hoaxler: “I see my bullshit isn’t quite deep enough! You haven’t got bored with me and gone away!”
Summoning his invisible unverifiable sources of crap, Hoaxler loudly posts;
” I gave a perfect example of one and you could drive around Wichita and find a dozen more just like it wihout trying!”
JR
Thats one finely worded and elaborate piece JR. It’s to bad that your to thick to realize how stupid it makes me look. I’ve addressed everything cosmos had to say and you lefties all keep dancing around your little fire like a bunch of fairy’s.(no assault on your sexuality intended). Address the example or go home.
JR you’ve added nothing of substance to this discussion. Why do you bother. Get a life and teach your kid to golf or something.
“XXX
I love the way you guys dance around the issue.”
You were asked a simple question and failed to answer. Look who’s dancing.
XXX
Is it because you know that the example is accurate and you can’t refute it? That the numbers are correct?
Is that a jig or a 2 step?
XXX
By the way, I made the challenge first. I’ll answer after you guys do. But if you really want to know just do a web search…if you really want to know that is….
Heckler,”By the way, I made the challenge first. I’ll answer after you guys do.”
FALSE! Here’s the chronology, starting TWO days ago.
Heckler: “A successfull business owner can’t pass the business on to the kids because they have to sell off half the business to pay the estate tax.”August 04, 2006 at 09:40 AM
JR: “Are you just an uninformed ditto head slob who buys the lies you are posting ?”09:48 AM
ksfarmgrrl: “Heck, can you give us at least one specific example where someone has has to sell the biz or the farm because of estate taxes?10:10 AM
Keckler’s bogus Brittain example was ripped apart.
I challenged you: “Can you find an example of a family business or farm that had to be “broken up”.11:51 AM
Heckler (to me): “I could probably dig up some examples…”12:07 PM
Two days later, Heckler still CAN’T give even one example. Why?
“Death Tax” Deceptionhttp://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2003/0103hunter.html
Heckler,Your supposition is based on a fictious assumption. Not on fact. The bottom line is this: If I give a relative more than $10,000 cash, they have to pay taxes on it. Even though I have already paid taxes on the money. Why? because the money is now theirs, and they have not paid taxes on it: capital gains.
When a business is passed on to heirs, the heirs have not paid taxes on the business. The deceased should know tax laws and prepare for them. Also, the heirs, knowing they would get the business, should prepare for it. The tax is not some sudden, O my God what just happened, thing. It is or should be known and prepared for.
Most business passed on are under the tax limit test, so they don’t have to pay the inheritence tax, but the ones that fall within the tax should pay. They did not build the business, and don’t deserve to get off tax free. As one earlier poster said, ” How much did Paris Hilton put into the hotel business?”
I see that Wal-Mart China is undergoing unionization. The Chinese government supports this. Wal-Mart says that it has no objection to unionization in China. Odd dual standard, eh.
It has also been reported that Republicans are marshalling a plan to make states’ minimum-wage (”living wage”) laws illegal. One proposal calls for tip-dependent workers employer-paid wages, such as waiters’ and waitresses’, to be down-adjustable so that their total income is federal minimum-wage level.
If that happens, it will saver diners money, because nobody will pay tips if they understand that it doesn’t help the servers at all. But service will degenerate, with no servers trying to do a better-than-minimum job to gain extra income. Doesn’t this violate ostensible Republicans’ effort=rewards principles? Another odd incongruity.
I am ALL FOR Heckler the Republican LOUDLY campaigning for the Republican position that an increase in the minimum wage should be granted if and only if the estate taxes of the wealthiest 8,000 people in America are totally eliminated. I hope he and all Republicans put a sign to that effect right next to the signs of their candidates of choice this fall.
I am NOT for someone claiming to be right when their arguement is full of holes. Hecklers argeument IS a hole.
My friend Ksfarmgrrl often posts the first of the “rules of holes”. That being “when you are in a hole stop digging!”
Well Heckler was already halfway to China on this thread! He’s so deep he can’t even hear the questions shouted down to him anymore! He won’t hear this one either so I’ll put it on a figurative note in a figurative bucket and drop it down the hole to go clunk on his head.
With his one posted example torn to pieces, burned, and the ashes buried Heckler posted this:
“KFG stated that she doubted the types of companies that could be wiped out by the estate tax didnt exist. I gave a perfect example, and I could give a dozen more examples of companies like it right here in Wichita. I could probably give a few examples of ones out in her neck of the woods as well.”
Shift your steamshovel into high gear Heckler! Those examples will be coming …..when?
I think maybe Heckler is trying to concede though. Even if he doesn’t know it. His heart is in this fight but apparently not his head. Shooting at me is instinctive for Heckler but I wonder if in addition to the shot we got a Freudian slip from Heckler when he posted this:
“Thats one finely worded and elaborate piece JR. It’s to bad that your to thick to realize how stupid it makes me look.”
LOL
I missed that one, JR. Nice find, Bro. At least Heck got one part right, LOL!
I missed that also JR. Makes a great photo caption?
‘It’s too bad that I’m too thick too realize how stupid it makes me look.’
After Heckler’s multiple posts re all the examples (plural), now there’s only ONE example: “JR … Address the example or go home.”
(Plus… JR, weren’t you posting from home?)
Heckler first admits (twice) the example is NOT perfect, then makes 3 posts insisting it IS “perfect”.
(emphasis added)”You’ll note that I QUALIFIED my example with this-”Now I CANT say for a FACT that he sold it by choice or necessity rather than passing it to his kids”.”"As I said before, I CANT say that estate taxes were the REASON Dewey sold it instead of passing it on.”
“I gave a PERFECT example…” (X3)
Dance people DANCE…..are my calculations off? Would a company worth 20million suffer severly because of estate taxes if passed on to decendants? YOU PEOPLE DONT HAVE THE BALLS TO ANSWER THE QUESTION BECAUSE YOU KNOW THE ANSWER.
You too JR.
You are such GOOD Democrats. Page 1 of DNC playbook. If you can’t win the arguement swarm like a bunch of gnats and shout your opponent down. Keep it up, I’m used to it.
By the way, were’s KFG, she started this arguement?
Heckler: “Dance people DANCE…..are my calculations off?”
Again, YES! You ignored the special treatments and rules. You also seem to ignore reality.
You’re the one shouting — it’s rude to type complete sentences with ‘Caps Lock’ on.
ksfarmgrrl is probably busy at her restaurant.
YOU started the argument when you posted your bogus, false, unsupportable opinion.
You’re proving this applies to you: ‘It’s too bad that I’m too thick too realize how stupid it makes me look.’
Heck, repeating false and untrue statements over and over again doesn’t mean you win. You sound like a petulant child. As you’ve seen, you can’t shout us down. Your blizzard of BS doesn’t work here.
You haven’t demonstrated that the estate tax had any effect on Brittian Machine or any other small business.
Heckler? I enjoy making you look stupid as you said yourself. I cannot take all the credit. YOU do a good job of it on your own!
This may be it XXX. This may finally be Heckler’s last “dance”. He is as you say and Cosmos notes, reduced here to a stomping shouting brat.
” Dance people DANCE…”
he posts.
A little background Cos. Heckler is our dancer. His call for us to dance for him IS new. Heck is a tapdancer. Stomp shuffle lie… scrape shuffle shill…..tap tap you’re wrong cause you’re a democrat! But he has stayed this dance WAY longer than usual and now demands WE dance! Usually by now Heck would have ditched his “partner” before the “music” stopped. He’d have shuffled off to Buffalo or Hoaxler HQ.But hey Heckler ya put on NEW “music”.”I gave a perfect example of one and you could drive around Wichita and find a dozen more without trying.”
You are gonna have a FULL dance card for that music Heckler! Save one for me will ya? For old times sake?
And what are his motives?What is his stake in this?Does he just feel bad because his former employer sold the business for a huge profit?Why would it matter to him? He stands to gain neither from the minimum wage battle or the tax battle?Hanging out, refusing to accept logic in a normal and customary way. Waiting on that ever fleeting “GOTCHA” moment of glory?Is that the motive?
Main Entry: heck·lePronunciation: ‘he-k&lFunction: transitive verbInflected Form(s): heck·led; heck·ling /-k(&-)li[ng]/
Etymology: Middle English hekelen to dress flax, scratch, from heckele hackle; akin to Old High German hAko hook — more at HOOK
: to harass and try to disconcert with questions, challenges, or gibes : BADGERsynonym see BAIT
- heck·ler /-k(&-)l&r/ noun
I guess he considers himself a master-baiter.
Most large private businesses plan for the estate tax. Life insurance policies on the owners are purchased so that the taxes can be paid. It’s a cost of doing business.
Naturally, life insurance companies are against the repeal of the estate tax.
Or, they can fund lobbyists for the complete repeal of the tax, like Kochs. Or, plan to kick the bucket sometime in 2010, before the resurrection.