“One of the biggest mistakes we made was underestimating the size of the task and the sacrifices that would be required,” Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said last week about the war in Iraq. “’Stuff happens,’ ‘mission accomplished,’ ‘last throes,’ ‘a few dead-enders’ — I’m just more familiar with those statements than anyone else because it grieves me so much that we had not told the American people how tough and difficult this task would be.”
Commentators such as David Broder of the Washington Post have said the same thing, only from Day One of the war. Broder, who remembers the shared sacrifice required during World War II, could not believe that nothing was being asked of the American public other than to keep shopping. And instead of expecting the public to pay a little more to finance the war, the administration cut taxes.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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37 Comments
Keep spinning John. Your realization come a bit late – just in time for politican season.
John McCain – a true politician. I think he needs a new pair of flip-flops.
He and his other drum beaters so far have been wrong about everything.
At this late date, if he wants to make a few quibbles about what should have been SAID four years ago, he can.
Every sentient being however can understand that everything they said was wrong, and everything we who opposed the war said was right.
Our soldiers are dying for a pack of lies.
McCain’s comments only verify the dead obvious.
Now what he needs to do is to OPPOSE the war, not just the selling of the war.
That takes brains and guts, so of course he won’t do it.
Phillip,The sacrifice is coming. Have you been keeping up with housing market? The bubble is about to burst. Americans have short memories. Remember when the “Tech Bubble” burst a few years ago? That was nothing compared to what’s going to happen to the economy when the housing market goes south. Look for a sharp, severe recession in 2007.
As usual, the republicans will blame it on Clinton.
McCain is right!
McCain is only partly right – the part that says BushdaBum has messed it up.
Bush said he would bet his political life on Iraq, the same should be true for all the Republican Congressional Choir. They lost the bet, time to take their medicine!
Still, you have to respect the man, I mean he talks like a true politician. He gives unsubstantial answers to every question.
Everbody’s a Monday morning quarterback….he’s no differnet than anyone else.I just wish that Bush&Co would have done their homework a little better.
As a democrat, I don’t hate McCain. I probably wouldn’t vote for him because of his support for Bush and his recent pandering to the religious right.
But that said, it’s just politics. Hillary has done a lot of things right now that I’m downright not happy about. The GOOD thing about both of them is that they’re likely, once in office, to throw the partisanship aside and get down to real business and uniting the country once again and doing what they feel is truly right for America instead of this fascist attitude that we have in the administration right now. I’m not likely to vote for McCain because he’s still a republican, which means that he holds those values that I don’t necessarily agree with, but at least he comes by them honestly.
John McCain is 70 years old. Can’t the republicans find someone who’s a little younger? Reagan was well into dementia by the time he left office.
The Presidency is a high-pressure job. Probably not the place for somebody who should be retired.
Hey X if he can dance the jig it will take for him even to get NOMINATED, Mc Cain will have demonstrated not only physical stamina but also a high degree of gymnastic achievement! Proof he can survive and cope with a Presidency? Maybe.
The above from Mc Cain was I believe an attempt to moderate his position last week in which he was somewhat less optimistic about the war.
You see, this is Mc Cains problem. He cannot distance himself TOO far from bush and the core group of true believers(nuts). He needs at least SOME of that base. BUT neither can he blindly embrace them! Doing that runs off everyone else!
If anyone thought Kerry was a waffler or a flip flopper, keep your eyes on John Mc Cain. You aint seen nothing yet.
“it grieves me so much that we had not told the American people how tough and difficult this task would be.”
“Cake-walk.” “Greeted as liberators.” “Flowers and candy.” “Last throes.”
These people have ZERO credibility left (I never believed they had any to begin with, but anyways) unless you’re like Joe – “Everything’s going swimmingly. Stay the course. Don’t cut and run.” The ‘base’ does not live in reality. They can’t accept that they are wrong because they have so much invested personally in the GOP. PATHETIC
First of all, I respect McCain for his service in Vietnam, but he is a political opportunist and he always has been.McCain has absolutely no chance of getting the Republican nomination.Most of us on the Right just don’t trust media gadflys like McCain, who always go for cheap, guaranteed headlines by attacking other Republicans.—Next, Bush did say, countless times, that the war on terrorism would be long and hard and costly.
The mission of removing Saddam was accomplished. “Mission Accomplished” was a statement of gratitude from the Commander in Chief to the troops. Bush never said the war was over!Saddam was a state sponsor of terrorism and Saddam was an enemy of the United States.3 U.S. Presidents have been at war with Saddam.Defeating Saddams Army was, pretty much, a “cake walk.” Can you name another military victory over a similar-sized Army in history that took less time?Yes, I wish things were going better, but most of the problems in Iraq are from outsiders and from Iran.We were still fighting the “Werewolves” terrorists, in Germany, 7 years after Hitler killed himself. Bush’s critics have no sense of history and no plan for the future.How bad would things be, today, if we had left Saddam in power, training and financing and diplomatically protecting terrorists?Would any terrorist group or any rogue state fear America if we had allowed Saddam to violate the Cease Fire agreement indefinately?Would Libya, a country responsible for blowing up an Airliner, have sworn off terrorism?We are not at war with Osama alone. We are at war with Islamic Fascism.You on the left belittle Administration preparedness by quoting the politicized 9-11 Commission, “They were at war with us, but, we were not at war with them.” —Then you act like we are not at war with anyone but Osama, after countless terrorist attacks on U.S. interests by, yes, Osama and several other loosely allied groups.Many of those other groups were supported by Saddam!
http://www.issues2000.org/2004/Joseph_Lieberman_War_+_Peace.htm
The Iraq War had to be fought.The Iraq War IS the sacrifice we had to make.There was not a chance for peace in the Middle East as long as Saddam was in power.—-Broder wants rationing, I guess. My Father used to talk about “Lucky Strike Greens have Gone to War” — the old ditty the cigarette company used, to explain why they had no green dye anymore, and had to go with white packaging for cigarettes.By the way, is it just an urban legend? I once heard that the poor quality hemp, or marijuana, that you can find along some old Kansas RR tracks is due to the fact that Hemp was grown in many states, for rope, and that when harvested, it was transported by train. The seeds then spilled out along the RR tracks.Yes, in WW2, our entire culture was devoted to the war effort.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=365500042690869290
FDR did a very bad job, economically, but a wonderful job militarily, even with his blunders. FDR’s basic vision was that Hitler and Japan would have to be fought, and FDR did what he could to ready a reluctant nation for war, even before Pearl Harbor.If FDR had spent more time worrying about businesses and private employment and corporate profits and investments, maybe FDR could have financed the war without so much debt. Maybe FDR would not be the the biggest debtor in US Presidential history, as a percent of GDP!
Federal revenues are at an all time high today.The top 5% of wage earners already pay more than 53.25% of Federal Income taxes.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/menu/top_50__of_wage_earners_pay_96_09__of_income_taxes.guest.html
Maybe Broder just wants the economy to tank, so that Dems can run against a bad economy?Raising tax rates would make the economy tank.Does Broder really think a poor country can fight a war better than a rich country?Broder sounds like Jimmy Carter, telling us to all put on a wool sweater and turn down the thermostat in the winter. Broder is pathetic.
I’ve got an idea: if smug journalists and editorial writers want us to fight this war like we fought WW2, how about this:All reporters, from now on, must promote the war effort and make the people back home feel good about their military!(That is, without exception, what the press did throughout WW2)Give me that, Broder, and I will wear a sweater in August!
Paul,Read the rush limbaugh link right down to the part about “The rich earned their dough, they didn’t inherit it (except Ted Kennedy)”What about george w. bush? He didn’t earn his. He inherited some of it, and the rest was a gift (propped up by the Saudis).The link is mindless drivel from an oxycontin addict.
Well said brown.
And here is our mindless drivelling shiller Paul Rosell to share that crap with us.
You were longer winded with that last little diatribe Paul. You wouldn’t be getting a little emotional now would ya? YOU know, like maybe ranters like you aint moving the polls one bit no matter how strident you get!
And buried in that mound of what you presented as an “arguement” is the biggest chunk of refuse imaginable!
“FRD did a very bad job economically…”
PAUL!!! FRD and the new deal SAVED the economy of this country from sliding forever into feudalism!
Or…..maybe you WANT feudalism? I’ve suggested that you were of that mind before. You never quite refute that charge. I wonder why?
Is it because you are an agent of finance and a shill for big industry?
But I digress.
I WILL agree with you that Mc Cain has virtually no chance with folks like you. He isn’t a big ENOUGH …….
(Fill in your own colorful description for yourself as I might describe you!!)
Go ahead Paul rant away. Joe Williams is still buying but not much of anybody else.
Iraq is an irretrievable quagmire and bush made it. Hey keep selling it was the right thing to do and we should keep doing it! It’ll be nice to have responsible folks (Dems) back in control of the house and senate this fall!
I look FORWARD to that big map of the US being a lovely shade of blue come 08!
Let’s just break a little news and better know one of our posters.
Remember “know your poster”?
Before your time Paul but it’s your turn.
Who is Paul Rosells candidate of choice for President in 08? Be honest! Don’t give us a compromise of who you think can win. Tell us Paul’s dream candidate!
It’s gratifying to see that even Paul sees through McCain.
Paul Rosell–gotta love him, folks. It takes a studied deliberation to justify our involvement in Iraq, past, present, and future, without mentioning that inconvenient, three-letter word: O-I-L. Quite a feat, really.
Horrors! How dare someone suggest that our motives for invading Iraq were anything less than utterly pure! Somebody get the smelling salts for Paul F. Rosell, whose delicate sensibilities have been so overwhelmed that he has collapsed onto the fainting couch.
To avoid having to call this spade for the spade that everyone knows it is, Paul F. Rosell constructs a tortured historical analogy and thows everything but the kitchen sink into his argument. Everything, that is, except what everyone knows: Iraq has the world’s second largest proven reserves of O-I-L.
Given your selectivity with the facts, Paul F. Rosell, and your attempt to construct a narrative that provides the Bush Administration with as much plausible deniability as possible, you shouldn’t be surprised when folks ’round these parts call you out as a shill and as intellectually dishonest, if not bankrupt.
You may want to cash those AIPAC checks pretty soon. Your credibility is dropping faster than Enron stock.
Yikes, bad on me! FRD? WHo the heck is FRD?
lol maybe FRD is who Paul meant.
I of course meant FDR.
You are right CF, Paul did dance nicely around the oil issue.
Probably because he has posted that he has a vested interest in that field. Mentioning oil might have put Paul in a compromising position and he wouldn’t want that.
Well done, CF. This isn’t Operation Iraqi Freedom and it never was. It’s Operation Iraqi Oil Profits, and it always was.
You know what I’ve figured out about Paul?
If after everytime he says something you negate it, then it’s true.
For example–
Paul writes–”We were still fighting the ‘Werewolves’ terrorists, in Germany, 7 years after Hitler killed himself.”
Wrong! My gosh, man, if you’re going to repeat the party propoganda, at least get the NEW propoganda. This has already been discredited many times over. Even Rumsfilled wouldn’t dare say it anymore.
Jeffrey Herf is Professor of History at the University of Maryland. He is the author of Zweielerei Erinnerung: Die NS Vergangenheit im geteilten Deutschland (Berlin: Ullstein/Propylaen, 1998).
“. . . of all the many problems facing the occupying powers, a guerilla war was not one of them. The ‘Werewolves’ had a scary name but no presence and did not become a serious security issue for the occupation. Instead of any heroic last stands, many Nazi leaders became the butt of bitter jokes as their promises of enduring heroism culminated instead in hundreds of suicides. The length and severity of the Second World War itself combined with the severity of Allied occupation made postwar guerilla resistance a fantasy.”
Paul writes–”Bush’s critics have no sense of history and no plan for the future.”
Actually, Paul if you substituted “advisors” for “critics,” you’d be exactly right.
The French in Algeria; the United States in Vietnam; the English in the American colonies; the Spanish in Mexico; the English in Ireland, in India, in Kenya; the Nazis in France; the Israelis in Palestine; even the Indonesians in East Timor.
The lesson of history is this–Only with the most overwhelming, crushing violence can an occupying power maintain control over an invaded people. And that violence must be constant and unremitting. The occupying power can never let their guard down–they must tax their citizens heavily to maintain the iron heel on the necks of the occupied. The occupied must be reduced to “things” so they can be enslaved, exploited, and killed. Hence, the Iraqis have already become “hajjis” and “ali babas” to our soldiers.
The lesson of history, had Bush heeded it, is that these kind of military occupations are insane.
Maybe Paul will tell us what HIS plan is beyond “same old same old” also known as “stay the course”
Plan? We don’t need no stinking plan!
XXX brings up the subject of the housing bubble. I heard the other day, I think on NPR, that the bursting of the bubble will affect different regions differently. I recall hoping that while I think Wichita housing prices are too high, our market doesn’t require that you be a millionaire to get into a middle class house like some places do.
Anyone else hear this notion that the bubble will burst differently in different places?
“Things are never so bad they can’t be made worse.”
Humphrey Bogart
In other words – “Stay the Course”
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Not much on my mind right now. I haven’t been up to anything. Today was a complete loss. That’s how it is. Not much exciting going on these days.