The Washington Post reported a shift in President Bush’s rhetoric about the war in Iraq during his press conference this week. Rather than talk about the progress being made in Iraq, Bush used terms such as “havoc” and made no suggestion that the situation is improving. His main argument: “If you think it’s bad now, imagine what Iraq would look like if the United States leaves before this government can defend itself.”
Christopher F. Gelpi, a Duke University scholar who does research on public opinion in wartime, told the Post that Bush had little choice. “He looks foolish and not credible if he says, ‘We’re making progress in Iraq,’” Gelpi said. “I think he probably would like to make that argument, but because that’s not credible given the facts on the ground, this is the fallback. . . . If the only thing you can say is ‘Yes, it’s bad, but it could be worse,’ that really is a last-ditch argument.”
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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79 Comments
Bush’s handlers must be trying out a softer and gentler George W. for the voters to see. The Bush Administration has lost all credibility when it comes to this insane Iraq war. And now comes Iran looking for a fight. We really do not need that one.
We need true leadership – not some election-speak double talk that is saying the same thing – stay the course.
If the situation on the ground is irredeemable than someone please tell me why in Sammy Davis Jr. hell are we still over there?
And here we have the wonderful liberals/media “no matter what you say” attack methodology in progress!
Bush says stay the course we are making progress…
media/liberals say look how bad it is.
Bush says it is bad, but without the stability we are providing it could be worse.
media/liberals say this is a last ditch argument.
Is there something Bush could say that you would agree with?
Oh yeah, let me guess:
The US will cut and run.
That is about the only thing that would make you happy, but then you(liberals/media) would blame Bush for the chaos that would happen when we left.
Will,
The situation is not irredeemable, and that is not what Bush said.
If the USA, as a nation, could turn back time to a point where Saddam is still in power, WE WOULD.It’s that bad.
Nathan in a human sense, yes it would make me happy if you and those like you were not there.The way it is being run and the way it will turn out you are nothing more then paper targets. Like that paper fence that has been placed between Israel and Hezbollah.The way things are going all that is happening it prolonging the finally outcome, the Shiites will align themselves with Iran and Iraq will be Iran West. I still believe in the “Pottery barn rule” but our present course is like the guy who sets the forest on fire screaming “We have to put this fire out it is burning the forest!”. Then only letting a handful of firefighters in to battle the blaze, it will not stop the flame and will only get the firefighter killed.
This invasion only helped Iran fulfill its dreams, they wanted the invasion and in a real sense did help to bring it about. They lied to Saddam, they sent disinformation to the U.S., they made every effort to rally the Islamic countries to the cause of using the invasion to bring a wedge between the middle east and the west.They played on Bush’s intense desire to go after Saddam, it seem the American people are the last to know about that desire.
So I am blaming Bush? in a sense yes, he is like that guy that sets the forest on fire, then has done a great deal to allow the flames to grow. Every attempt at a peaceful means to avoid the invasion Bush stood in the way. When the Russians had arranged a military coup against Saddam and the Russian made a mistake by telling the U.S. Bush had the CIA tell Egypt intelligence about it knowing that they would tell Saddam.Why? Because G.W. wanted to be the one that brought Saddam down and even when an agreement was reached by middle eastern countries for Saddam to step down and turn over any hidden WMDs in exchange for his safe departure from Iraq and exile to a willing country. The U.S. would not hear of it and we would still invade.
So what would make me happy to hear Bush say, well it would be nice for him to admit he was terribly wrong in this and resign along with his entire cabinet. But that is not going to happen is it? No because like Saddam wanting assurances that he would not be tried for war crimes. Until Bush&Co. can work some things out that will enable them to escape such a fate. He has to stay in office to avoid being charged with crimes against humanity and war crimes.
It would make me happy to hear him say that we are ramping up the forces to the needed strength in Iraq so a peaceful end will come. As I said toward the top, the Shiites are the majority and lean toward Iran. So even if it took forty years to get to a point where we can pull out. The outcome will always be that Iraq will be a Shiite nation like Iran. Whether we stay or not, whether there is a full blown civil war or not, Iraq because of the invasion will be a Shiite nation. But to ramp up may very well mean a draft, it is a troubling sign that the USMC has a involuntary recall of non-active Marines. It is a sign we are in over our head so to speak. The first in it history, for what is suppose to be a policing action more or less. So as to not pull from the regular forces around the world. Are we really that short in the military? I have no doubt we are capable of winning any major war with our technology. But fighting an enemy that is low tech and weaker then us and we have to pull in the reserves and extend the tours of those already there. Is troubling and a sign that we are not whom we think we are. Maybe that is a telling sign of being the last super power, we have become so far from the ground that we have trouble reaching it. We can destroy the world eight times over yet we are in trouble fighting a smaller enemy using low tech weapons.
What else would make me happy? For Bush to announce to the country that Nathan will not need to go to Iraq! Selfish I know but hey I did say I am speaking in a human sense.
writerdog
“When the Russians had arranged a military coup against Saddam and the Russian made a mistake by telling the U.S. Bush had the CIA tell Egypt intelligence about it knowing that they would tell Saddam. ”
Source?
Bush could say I f’d up, and am resigning as soon as people can be found to replace my incompetent administration.
Nathan,
Actually, what we have here is another example of the Administration’s total reversal of its former position when to do so is politically adventageous. They have a record of being absolutely dead-set against things right up until they’re absolutely for them. Some people call it “re-writing history.”
As for “cut and run,” Nathan, can we make this war about something other than Karl Rove’s insecure masculinity?
When US foreign policy is so bad that all three Networks, ABC, CBS and NBC run program after program after program about so-called “terrorist this” and “terrorist that,” in order to frighten the American People, then something is wrong.
Selling fear is easy, but an exaggerated fear needed to reconcile American foreign policy strongly suggests the policy itself is highly flawed and needs to be changed.
“Terrorism” is a word, nowadays, used to substitute for the anger, which our current foreign policy generates and the retaliation that goes along with that anger.
The American People make better decisions when told the truth. Not when they are deliberately frightened for the sake of salvaging Dick Cheney’s dreams or fantasies of imperialism.
Making Peace with the Arabs, not only makes good sense, but also abates the anger for retaliation. That’s the best to approach foreign policy.
Then ABC,CBS and NBC can go back to making programs about their usual sex and violence and cheating housewives.
ED—-AGREED.
The definition of Cut and Run: What we did in Afghanistan.
(Didn’t we go there after 9/11 to catch bin Laden?)
Tracy, I just love my last paragraph…hoe about “cheating housewives?”
How
RD
Don’t let them get to ya with their “cut and run” thing. Actually that’s a smart move for a ship to get out into the open waters to fight…..
I don’t think Iraq is really that bad. It could be a lot worse, but the progress we are making is never reported or known.
The only thing people know about the Iraq War is what they see on CBS evening news. People think all hell has broke loose and millions of innocent people are dying, but that’s not the case.
It’s like local news. It makes you think that Wichita is crime ridden with dead bodies rotting in the street and houses always catch on fire, not to mention we are in contant threat of tornados everyday that warrents Superplex Weather Stations. From our own local News, it gives the impression we are in a constant state of caos.
Some reasoning behind the war in Iraq. People don’t know much beyond the sensationalism of crafted, edited, and negative news reporting.
When George W. Bush admits that he made a mistake about Iraq and then starts changing the way the US can win this war – that is when I will agree with the man. You Bushies are more concerned about the fact that people question George W. than the fact there is a reason to question him. Who has their blinders on?
It sounds as if the conservatives on this board, if they had their way, would still be fighting in Korea and Vietnam. I wonder how many conflicts these conservatives actually engaged in, other than on their Xbox.
Their daddies were chickenhawks, and their daddy’s daddies were chickenhawks, and by God, they’re the best damn chickenhawks there’s ever been.
MAN, WE HAVE FUCKED THIS THING UNBELIEVEABLY! BUT! WE COULD HAVE EVEN MESSED IT UP EVEN WORSE! SO STAY THE COURSE!
About the jist of it! Stay the course is the best thing we can do right now. Withdrawl is a worse option than the reasons Bush used to go in at the first place.
“Stay the course is out of vogue now. They have some other platitude they spout. It is so forgettable I can’t recall it just now.
Meanwhile they falsely shout that the Dem strategy is “cut and run”. I’d call the Republican strategy “sit and spin”.
Lets see now. The course we are on is what caused the mess. So lets stay on it and see how much worse we can make it. That about sums up “the jist of it”.
Since the present course is wrong (as evidenced by the mess it has created) doesn’t it make sense to change course and find something that will be successful?
Colin Powell was right.
The official policy of Bill Clinton, regarding Iraq, was “regime change” even though Clinton did very little to accomplish that policy.
The Iraq war has accomplished several things:Many terrorists, including many closely linked to Osama, have been killed or captured.Libya’s Kaddafi has sworn off terrorism.We have denied terrorists a safe haven in Iraq.We have shut off Saddam’s funding of suicide bombers.We have halted Saddam’s training of terrorists.We have shut off the diplomatic assistance of Iraq to terrorists worldwide.We have halted Iraqs pursuit of WMD’s. (Regardless of all the arguements about WMD’s being moved to Syria or WMD’s that WERE found being to old to use, the fact remains that Saddam wanted WMD’s and Saddam DID have nuclear ambitions.)Also, we are now right next door to Iran, and that might be very important very soon.Saddam was a state sponsor of terrorism, there is no doubt about that.Middle East Peace might never happen, but it would certainly never happen with Saddam in power.—We are trying to get the world to fear us. Get passed the happy talk, and that is really what we want. Fear of America is necessary for peace, folks. Please name a successful ambassodor from a country like Bermuda or Iceland that nobody fears?Diplomats are powerless if they come from powerless countries.Think back to right after 9-11.We had been at war with Saddam for several years, over the terms of 3 US Presidents.Saddam had violated the cease fire agreement on a regular basis.We want the world to fear American Military Power.Meanwhile, Saddam shoots at us in the no fly zone and Saddam ignores the UN completely.Saddam is laughing at us.How in the world would ever have the respect of anyone, let alone Islamic terrorists, if we allowed Saddam to remain in power?—There aren’t any easy answers now, there werent any easy answers when Congress authorized the use of force.
Saddam was a State sponsor of terrorism and he is gone.I am very sad that accomplishing this task has come at such a high price, but we did gain ground on terrorism by removing Saddam:http://www.jquinton.com/archives/002050.html
Of course Colin Powell was right – everybody with any sense knew he was right at the time he resigned (or was pushed out). But then we had the Bushies and their fear mongering getting their Neo-Cons all stirred up. But don’t worry – we have the one true God on our side.
The US junta invaded Iraq in March of 2003. It has now been 3 and one half YEARS since the invasion.
If we weren’t able to organize an effective military power in Iraq in the first four years, why will we be able to in the next four years?
The simple fact is that the Bush Administration is incompetent, but they’re not THAT incompetent.
There’s no military power in Iraq other than the US BY DESIGN.
A tyrant brooks no competition.
You give Iraq an army, and suddenly it wants to make decisions for itself.
Can’t have that . . .
Writerdog,
You believe all that stuff about the CIA, Egypt, and Russia… yet you don’t believe a word Bush says…
Telling… very telling.
RD,
As usual you must not be paying any attention to reality.
Last I checked we are still hunting down and killing the Taliban there and actively searching for Osama.
I suppose you would only accept 1.2 million military men literally standing an arms length apart walking across the country hoping to get Osama?
Right…
CapnAmerica,
Did you know that right now the Iraqi government has to approve all major military operations by US forces?
Guess what, the Marine Corps had requested to do another major operation like they have done in the past and were told no. We respected their decision.
Nathan,
But don’t you see the circular situation you yourself are presenting?
We KNOW that elements of each of the warring factions in Iraq have infiltrated the government and military at all levels. Now it is that same government and military that has the say so on how to address the civil unrest committed by elements of those same warring factions? The inmates in charge of the asylum?
This is even more reason for us to give them a date to be ready by and get out. They are gonna have to work this thing out themselves.
When Bushies take off their blinders, it only reveals their rose colored glasses. They need to feel the heat and smell the stench, then see if they talk about ‘the progress being made’. Things are going to get so bad over there, if it isn’t all ready, that Iraq will Jump into the arms of Iran for a little stability. Half a trillion dollars for that, Boy What A Bargain!
Joe,
Can you give me a list and some credible links referring to all the good things going on over there?
Gary – they are the same sources claiming that a majority of Democrats believe that Bush/Cheney did 9/11. Next thing you know Joe will demand that you prove the negative as he did with his outlandish claim about 9/11.
This war was unwinnable from the outset and should never have been started. The only way out of it now is to convince neighboring arab states to maintain the stability in Iraq while we get the hell out. The outcome will be worse than if we’d left Saddam in power, but not nearly as bad as it will get if we “stay the course.”
Hey Paul, perhaps you ought to update your info. The diplomatic work with Libya began during the Clinton administration and had nothing to do with the Iraq war. However, your consistent efforts to reveal how uninformed you are continues to entertain everyone.
Other info:There wasn’t a presence of terrorists in Iraq because Saddam kept them out. They came in as a result of the Iraq occupation.
Saddam didn’t fund suicide bombers, he gave money to the families of suicide bombers after the bomber was dead. So the bombers never received any of his money.
Saddam’s training of terrorists? Who would that be, the Iraqi military? What’s wrong with a nation having it’s own military? You just called all American troops terrorists, I suppose that’s consistent with your position on hating the U.S. troops since you want to see so many of them dead.
Iraq didn’t have a WMD program. Are you still believing that those aluminum tubes were used for weapons? No, they were used for Ted Stevens internet.
Paul you have no support for your claims. Iraq was an occupied nation with a military that was incapable of invading another nation. They weren’t a threat and they provided a buffer zone against Iran. Now it’s clear you want to invade Iran, of course you won’t be part of that invasion, you’ll just be in front of your computer, drinking you cheap ass beer laughing at fart jokes while poor people who enlisted to get out of poverty fight for your entertainment. You are disgusting.
I DON’T HAVE TO PROVE MY CLAIMS! YOU HAVE TO PROVE THEM FALSE!
Ben
I just figured it out. We’re being terrorized by Homeland Security.
To ask our soldiers to die because things might be worse isn’t a good enough reason…..
While I do not agree with you Ed I defy Joe to PROVE you false.
Instead of calling it “cut and run”, a phrase that causes most Republicans to break into a sweat when they here, it should be called “gut and run”. We did it in Vietnam so we have experience. Go into a country, gut in out and leave only to let the very ones we were trying to overcome fill back in.
No Ed! Because that isn’t the reason why we are there and still there.
It is the consquence if we leave now or set a time table.
So your primise is wrong! Nobody is asking our soliders to die. And we are not keeping the soliders there because we feel things are going to get worse. They have been over there since day one for a mission to change the political landscape of the Middle East as to minimize or irradicate Islamic Facist threats so that we don’t have to deal with these terrorist for centuries and on our own soil.
We are there to protect the free world.
Did I PROVE him wrong Ben?
You bet I did!
Too easy!
Ben
Try this: If we stop giving them good enough reasons to kill us here at home, they won’t.
Joe
You are wrong. Things are getting worse because we’re there.
No Joe – you proved nothing. You simply claimed it ain’t so, you didn’t PROVE it ain’t so.
Joe – a question. After the fall of Saigon was the United States overrun by crazed Commie ‘Gooks’? We were told that would be the consequence.
Yes I did! I told you exactly why we are there. Enough Said!
Can you prove me wrong?
No!
No Ben! The United States wasn’t. But South Vietnam was!
Ed! Thing aren’t any worse than it was before we are there. 3000 American lives died on 9/11. You want that all the time?
So you saying that the reason why things are worse is because Americans? That American Soliders are evil and cause the worlds problems and cause terrorism and cause innocent people to go bad and start killing each other?
Joe
In reality, what are the chances things will get better if we stay?
100%
Patience, support of the public (American public), and security of the new Iraqi Government to allow the process to work.
I have faith in it.
Joe
We’ve been in Iraq longer than WWll. It just keeps getting worse as we pay some Iraqis to be traitors and others go after them.
That is a vicious circle and time has proven that to be true.
They don’t like our puppet government and never will.
Joe – a majority of Democrats do NOT believe that Bush/Cheney did 9/11. Prove that false.
I was told that VietNam was the first domino and that Thailand, Malaysia, Phillipines, Australia, etc would follow. Then the US.
“You have faith in it” – then go and fight for your faith. I’m too old – I’ve seen thees lies about “light at the end of the tunnel” too many times.
With a quarter-million troops when does the ARI take over? Will they do any better elsewhere than they did yesterday at the British post that was handed over to them?
Yes! Time and time again we have made too many mistakes on the “enemy of my enemy is my friend” concept.
It started with the Soviets in WWII and from then on out we supported dictators or groups because they opposed our enemy and all that did was turn around and bit us in the butt.
I hope we stopped this cycle. Iraq and Afghanistan better be it. We used to have others do the work. It’s time for us to deal with it. Yes! Unfortunantly that has ended the lived of our heros in the military. But we need to end it.
I don’t think we are trading one enemy to combat another. I think we are planting the seed of Democracy by overthrowing a dictator ourselves, initiate a new government by the people (not us), and secure the nation and then we can leave.
We have accomplished so much towards our objective so far. The only thing left and it is the most difficult, and that is securing that nation.
It’s never going to be perfect, but just secure to the point that the Iraqis can deal with it themselves. Of course we will have a permanant base there.
But the Iraqi Street doesn’t hate us at all. If you ever watched “Voices of Iraq”, it is a clear example that what we are doing there is a good thing. There is some critisim and some awful things such as Abu Grab and the recent indiscriminate killings of innocent people, but all in all, we are doing good.
http://www.voicesofiraq.com/
You haven’t answered my question Joe. When does the quarter-million man ARI take over and will they do a more credible job than yesterday at that former British base.
Actually it was Vietnam, then Laos, Mayanmar, Cambodia and Nepal. That really did happen in the domino effect.
The majority of Democrats? I don’t know the exact figures or percentages, but many Democrats do. Including those on this forum. I don’t know if you believe Bush ordered 9/11, but when asked the question on this blog, some have responded “I wouldn’t put it past them”.
But the scientificlly conducted poll for which I provided, clearly states that people who believe in the conspiracy of Bush ordering 9/11 to happen were most likely Democrats.
We only have 135,000 troops in the Middle East at the moment. Either in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait or Qutar. Not a quarter of a million.
The Iraqis are slowly but surely taken over some areas indepedently from us and most are joint efforts. It will happen.
Don’t worry! You’ll get your cake. What will happen is that during Hilliary’s Presidency, everything will be well and she will take full credit for it. It will be just the circumstance of patiences and time, but that won’t matter to you and other Democrats.
I don’t care if she does take credit. It’s not about politics, but about what is right! And staying the course is the right decision.
Bush is a fool. He dragged this nation into war. Now he blames the democrats for his debacle.
I didn’t say WE had a quarter-million; I said a quarter-million ARI. THAT is according to Rumsfield.
As for “people who believe in the conspiracy of Bush ordering 9/11 to happen were most likely Democrats” only means that if there are a total of 3 people in the universe who believe that then 2 of them are Democrats. Learn how to NOT misuse statistics.
I’m sure that a majority of those who believe that Saddam flew the planes are republicans. AND, I provided links what GOP leaders making such a claim.
“The Iraqis are slowly but surely taken over some areas indepedently from us and most are joint efforts. It will happen.” Yeah – just like it did at that overrun and looted British base yesterday.
Joe – you are just too cute! If things work out well it is because of Bush’s stellar leadership. But when it fails it will all be the fault of the evil Democrats!
“As usual you must not be paying any attention to reality.”
Aww, Nathan, thanks for your concern. Honestly, I enjoy it here in LaLa Land. It’s peaceful. I’m happy. And they bring me little colored candies in a tiny white cup every day.
Nathan,
BTW, when I was about or 8 and Boys State was held at West High, I lost a large necklace with a Colorado symbol on it. At 10 o’clock that night, ALL of the attendees were hustled outside in their jammies, each with a flashlight. They were lined up and walked the entire front lawn of West High. Guess what? They found my necklace. ;)
Did you see what happened when the British turned over a military base near Amarah to the Iraqis? It got picked clean in a matter of hours by looters. We can expect much more of the same in the future when we try to give the responsibility of taking care of the country to the new Iraqi government. Those people have no idea of how to live in freedom, except to use it to take advantage of every opportunity to pillage.We should have left after Saddam was thrown out, like they asked us to.
Heckler the source of this information is the book “The Secret History of the Iraq War” by Yossef Bodansky page 82.*************The Russians identified the key individuals and military formations that could be trusted to successfully carry out the coup, and Russian intelligence was confident that it could ensure the secrecy and safety of such preparations.
Then the leadership made a cardinal error. On behalf of the Kremlin, Russian intelligence notified the CIA of it plan, to make sure that no U.S. asset was killed and no U.S. intelligence activities were thwarted as a result of the Russian inspired coup. Moscow also asked Washington to recognize and support the new government in Baghdad.
The administration was horrified by the Russian plans-particularly by the domestic political ramification of somebody else taking credit for toppling Hussein’s regime. Hence, Washington betrayed the Russian plans to, reportedly, Egyptian intelligence, with the full knowledge that Baghdad would be forewarned.It did not take long for the Russian intelligence to learn about the American perfidy. The coup plans were immediately shelved before any Russian asset was harmed. But Moscow no longer saw itself obligated to help and save U.S. assets, Hence, Russian intelligence stopped warning its American counterparts when Iraqi surveillance focused on individuals suspected of ties with the Iraqi opposition in exile or American intelligence. For American intelligence, the Russian’s hands off approach would prove detrimental, as the United States was about to embark on a major clandestine undertaking inside Iraq.**********The author’s credentuals are:Has been the Director of the Congressional task force on terrorism and Unconventional warfare. Long time Director of research at the International Stratic studies Association and senior editor for Defense and foreign affairs group of publications, Visiting scholar at Johns Hoplins Univerity School of Advanced International studies, as well as a former senior consultant for the U.S. departmenst of Defense and State. The Author of the number one New York times bestseller: Bin Laden: The man who declared war on America.
Nathan, you’re the one living in “La La” land if you think we’re going to bring them freedom and democracy and in the process make the USA more secure from terrorists.It will be interesting to see what you have to say when you return home, I wonder if you’ll feel any different that you do now. Godspeed.
Nathan–
You say the Iraqi government has to approve US military plans.
What government?
Joe – I notice you continue to say you have faith that this whole thing will work out but you constantly refuse to tell us how many decades it will take. I still remember Rumsfield saying “months not years”! So, what kind of timeline for the ARI to take over?
Bushytail’s quote from above—-
“If you think it’s bad now, imagine what Iraq would look like if the United States leaves before this government can defend itself.”
I like this quote be me much better—
“If you think it’s bad now, imagine what Iraq would look like if the United States WOULD HAVE LEFT THEM ALONE”
The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him.”- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01
1752 daysOr 4 years, 9 months, 18 daysStill no Osama
1346 Number of days from Pearl Harbor to surrender of Japan:
1457 Number of days of American Civil War:
1201 days since invasion of Iraq
1159 days since mission accomplished
335 days from D day to surrender of Germany
395 days since Cheney made “last throes” comment
2113 days between Iraq invasion and Bush last day in office where he plans on passing this problem to the next president
November 21, 2006 the war in Iraq will have lasted as long as WW2March 12, 2007 the war in Iraq will have lasted as long as civil war
‘Stay the course’, isn’t that what Custer told his men heading to Little Big Horn?
Why even bother arguing with people like Joe, Nate, and Heckler? Isn’t it obvious that they do not live in reality? That any news that doesn’t fit GOP talking points is falsified, ‘liberal,’ ‘defeatist,’ not credible, etc? Do you really think that you will be able to talk sense to someone who actually argues that ‘things aren’t as bad over there as the media makes it out to be?’ These people are crazy; they care more about their ‘team’ the GOP saving face and retaining power than anything else. Even reality and the lives of others. PATHETIC.
Marines, Looking for a few Good Men! http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/nation/15336345.htm
I’m just amazed that Bush didn’t come out proclaiming “Look at the bright side, we could all be talking Iraqi now!”
YOU THINK THINGS ARE BAD IN IRAQ NOW?! JUST WAIT TILL WE STAY THE COURSE SOME MORE! THEN IT WILL REALLY BE FUCKED UP!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
ok boys, give me some more cocaine!
Good points, DDub.
I myself believe in what William James called “materialism,” or my version of it, anyway.
Whatever helps people we should do. Whatever hurts people we should not.
Tax cuts for the rich. If they really stimulated the economy, created more tax revenue and balanced the budget, then fine use them.
12 years of tax cuts for the rich under Reagan-Bush led to a DOUBLING of the national debt.
Abortion. If making abortion illegal stopped abortion, then I’d be for it. A lot of evidence shows that in the United States, more women were having abortions BEFORE abortion was legalized than after.
One of those women BTW was George W. Bush’s former girlfriend.
War in Iraq. If the war really was doing what it was supposed to do, creating democracy and a stable gov’t, then I would be for it. It’s not. Any thinking person knew it wasn’t going to work out that way. Just imagine if the Russians came over here and tried to impose socialism.
Forget ideology. Let’s just do things that work and actually help people.
Good anaysis capt. I use the term “pragmatic progressive” – note the qualifier pragmatic.
US is confronting a ‘new facism’, Rumsfeld saysPublished: 8/29/2006SALT LAKE CITY – The United States is fighting “a new type of facism,” US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told a veterans’ group here Tuesday.”We face similar challenges in efforts to confront the rising of a new type of fascism,” he said.
“And that is important in this ‘long war’ where any kind of moral and intellectual confusion about who and what is right or wrong can weaken the ability of free societies to persevere,” he said, taking aim at detractors of the US “war on terror”.
http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=139806
Always appreciate it when Rummy lets me know I am on the right track. Lord knows there is nothing morally confused about lying about the threat of a country we elect to invade for its oil resources… no moral or intellectual confusion, what-so-ever…
Seriously, how does this clown look at himself in the mirror each morning?
Has anyone else noticed that Rumsoaked even LOOKS like Robert McNamara?
The war in Iraq is intended to save hundreds of thousands of lives, mostly middle eastern lives. Our foreign policy for the middle east pre 911 has been judged a failure because of the inability of the regimes we supported to stop the spread of islamic facism. We didnt really care for many years as long as we recieved cheap oil. 911 and more importantly the spread of nuclear technology has changed all of that. A decision was made to shake up the middle east by inserting democracy in Iraq. Iraq was chosen in part by geography and in part because of their poor legal position with the security council in the United Nations. If democracy can be realized then surely the center or center right can keep the fundamentalists or islamic facists in check so the theory goes. We still do not know if this policy will work. It will take many election cycles for the electorate to feel the pain or prosperity of their decisions and make corrections in the next election cycle.A new policy was needed after 911. To follow the status quo would allow islamic facists to acquire and use nuclear weapons against the west. When that happens what will be our response? The United States will not simply send 150,000 troops to the middle east, we will destroy whole cities, civillian population and all in the blink of an eye. We are on the verge of a nuclear holocost within the next ten to twenty years unless we find a way to empower the moderate to center right people in middle eastern countries, as well as develop a middle class. You may not agree with the methods used by our current administration, but you should realise that the west has a short period of time before islamic facists run out the clock and force us to inflict thousands and thousands of casualties on the people of the middle east. Not only dead islamic facists, but also dead innocent muslim men, women, and children who may have embraced democracy if only they were given a chance.
Maybe so jw; but we sure as heck ain’t succeeding in this so-called mission. Where have we planted the seeds of democracy in the Middle east? NOWHERE! The two democratic Arab governments (Palestine and Lebanon) are treated as enemies by the US. Iran, also a democracy, is likewise treated as an enemy.
“The significant problems we face can not be solved by the same level of thinking that created them.” – Albert Einstein
We need to foster democracy in the Middle East and elsewhere. However, we need to find methods that work. Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield do not have those methods. They are the ones who created the problems we currently face in Iraq and elsewhere.