Much attention has been paid to President Bush’s emphatic use of the term “Islamic fascists” after the airliner bomb plot was foiled. Linguist Geoffrey Nunberg writes in the Los Angeles Times that the label, actually about 15 years old, oversimplifies the threat but sounds good to conservatives because it “links the current conflict to images from the last ‘just war’: Nazi tanks rolling into Poland and France, spineless collaborators sapping the national will, Winston Churchill glaring defiantly over his cigar, the black ink spreading across the maps of Europe and Asia in Frank Capra’s ‘Why We Fight’ newsreels.”
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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289 Comments
Totally. And as I’ve said elsewhere, it allows Republicans to rebrand fascism as a non-Western, non-white phenomenon.
Conveniently, the buzzword “Islamofascism” negates the historical alliance, in Germany and Italy, between fascism and crony capitalism. And given the support shown to former Nazi industrialist Frtiz Thyssen, by Senator Prescott Bush, George W. Bush’s grandfather, it’s fair to say that the Bush Administration has a vested interest in shoving European fascism down the memory hole.
I think the major difference is Winston Churchhill actually managed to defeat fascists while Bush simply employs them.
We will see.
I call the terrorist, Islamic Facist.
I think calling it a war on terror doesn’t do it justice, because terrorism is a tatic. We aren’t in war with a tatic, we are in war with a group of killers that must be identified. They are Islamic Facist!
The only problem with the term is the word “Islamic” most of the Islamic world already thinks that it is a war against anything Islamic. Iran and Syria have promoted this idea before the Invasion of Iraq and that only show the Islamic that Iran was right.
As to what term would be better, I do not know. several have pointed out that it has become a part of those that follow Islam in their lives. Not so much a part of the faith as it is a feeling that the West is going after the faith.
But the use of “Fascist” does side track and demonize the word in front of it. Arabs are not a stupid people. They often have a better remembrance of history then does the west. So the use of the word does not escape them as to its intent. I had read that Bin Laden wished to instill a government worldwide based on a 14th century cleric. That his desire was not to spread Islam per say, his motivation was not based on religion.This action has morphed into a battle against the religion in the eyes of many of that faith. They are not against Democracy as it is part of their religion, but they do not see what Bush wants to spread as Democracy. This believe has been aided by the countries I mentioned above.
But we do love catch phrases, if a Christian leader is charismatic he sometime is referred to as a “Jim Jones”. If it is a school shooting it is referred to as a “Columbine style shooting”, etc.I am afraid what is going on in the Middle East and the Islamic world is more complicated then it being merely Fascism.
There is only one “terrorist” organisation in the Middle East and that is The Rogue State of Israel, which gets their funding and rearmament from the complicity of Bush administration’s neocons.
The “Israel Experiment” has failed.
After 1.6 trillion dollars of American taxpayer money the only thing which Israel produces with consistency is murder and mayhem and terrorizing Arabs.
The only way to stop terrorism is to stop funding and supporting Israel and make peace with the Arab countries. It’s time to put the so-called war on terror to bed.
Hasn’t that become obvious?
Have we become the ‘black ink’?
BTW ED, this morning’s NY Times had an article about Zionists.I didn’t get to read it because they made it part of thier paid only reading.I’ve heard others say not to waste your money.
Tracy, What do you mean “black ink?”
From the closing line of the subject post:
“the black ink spreading across the maps of Europe and Asia in Frank Capra’s ‘Why We Fight’”
Fascism is a radical totalitarian political philosophy that combines elements of corporatism, authoritarianism, extreme nationalism, militarism, anti-anarchism, anti-communism and anti-liberalism.
The original fascist (fascismo) movement ruled Italy from 1922 to 1943 under the leadership of Benito Mussolini. In time, the generic term fascism came to cover a class of authoritarian political ideologies, parties, and political systems, most notably Nazi Germany under Adolf Hitler but also Hungary’s Arrow Cross Party, Romania’s Iron Guard, Spain’s Falange and the French political movements led by former socialists Marcel Déat and Jacques Doriot and others.
We are at war with Islamic Fascism. There is no accomodation with those who would purposly target innocent people.
I’m glad the world is waking up to this threat. It might take the liberals a little more time and a few more thousand of their deaths to help this along. If not they might as well start picking out their muslim names now.
The whole notion that terrorism is about Israel is pure Bullsh*t.
The Hindu’s don’t support Israel and yet they’re the targets of Islamic Fascists.
The Buddhists don’t support Israel yet they’re the targets of Islamic Fascists.
The Sudanese don’t support Israel yet they’re the targets of Islamic Fascists.
The Nigerians don’t support Israel yet they’re the targets of Islamic Fascists.
The Sri Lankans don’t support Israel yet they’re the targets of Islamic Fascists.
The Ivorians don’t support Israel yet they’re the targets of Islamic Fascists.
It is a war of Islam and those who don’t succum to Islam. It’s the same story for the entire bloody history of that “religion of peace”.
When their “prophet Mohammed” was alive all his followers did was to ride from village to village putting to death all those who didn’t believe in him.
When their “prophet Mohammed” died the first thing his followers did was to being to slay one another. This continues today in the Shi’ite/Sunni killings.
People in India are being killed by the religion of peace.
People in Indonesia are being killed by the religion of peace.
People in Sri Lanka are being killed by the reilgion of peace.
People in Iraq are being killed by the religion of peace.
People in the Sudan are being killed by the religion of peace.
People in Somalia are being killed by the religion of peace.
People in Nigeria are being killed by the religion of peace.
People in the Congo are being killed by the religion of peace.
People in the Ivory Coast are being killed by the religion of peace.
People all over the world are being killed by the religion of peace.
And somehow this is all Israel’s fault.
Islam is the religion of death.
Islamophobia: A Definition
) Islam is seen as a monolithic bloc, static and unresponsive to change.2) Islam is seen as separate and ‘other’. It does not have values in common with other cultures, is not affected by them and does not influence them.3) Islam is seen as inferior to the West. It is seen as barbaric, irrational, primitive and sexist.4) Islam is seen as violent, aggressive, threatening, supportive of terrorism and engaged in a ‘clash of civilisations’.5) Islam is seen as a political ideology and is used for political or military advantage.6) Criticisms made of the West by Islam are rejected out of hand.7) Hostility towards Islam is used to justify discriminatory practices towards Muslims and exclusion of Muslims from mainstream society.8) Anti-Muslim hostility is seen as natural or normal
http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/islamophobia-a-definition/
It was Islam who kept alive the spirit of Ancient Greece while Europe sank into the Dark Ages.
Islam fanaticism today is the result of politicization of the religion. Don’t worry, the US will catch up soon enough…
“Islamophobia: …”
Like I said it will take the liberals a few more thousand liberal deaths for them to wake up. Maybe.
Meanwhile, you need to watch Wafa Sultan.
http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null
http://www.nogw.com/israeliatrocities.html
http://www.halturnershow.com/IsraeliAtrocities.html
http://www.thewe.cc/contents/more/archive/atrocities.htm
all sides are at fault
“all sides are at fault”
None of these were caused by Israel.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks
A key element of fascism is support by big corporate interests. It happened clearly in Italy under Mussolini and in Germany when Hitler scrapped the “socialism” part of National Socialism.
That’s why FDR warned that when private interests (corporatism) becomes more powerful than the federal government, you have fascism that threatens democracy.
“The liberty of democracy is not safe if people tolerate growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism.”Franklin Roosevelt
As CF and Doug have rightly pointed out, calling jihadism “fascism” camoflagues the real nature of fascism.
American fascism, which we see happening all around us under the pretext of “protecting ourselves from Islamofascism,” is a much bigger threat than a few Saudis with bombs.
Look at how the corporate interests made sure their man won even when he lost. Look at how they turn the incompetence and stupidity that led to 9-11 into a “call for unity and resolve to take the fight to the enemy,” resulting in obscene war profiteering by giant multinationals like Halliburton. Look at their rhetoric that polarizes positions into “us versus them”–just a few days ago, Cheney said that a vote for Ned Lamont (instead of Leiberman) was a vote for Al Qaeda types. Look at the illegal spying in direct violation of the Constitution so many of us tolerate and even support because we fear “Islamofascist.”
We are right to fear fascism. But it’s the fascism in Washington, not in the seething brain of some jihadi half a world away, that we should worry about.
The “illegal” spying foiled the London bombing plot.
But, please, tell me how it’s Bush’s fault again?
How can you say things like that LRB?
“None of these were caused by Israel”
Statements like that only keep the conflict alive.
The chart in your propaganda link are mostly tit for tat reprisal killings in Iraq.
I believe the civil war in Iraq is brought to you and sponsored by the USA.
Time for everybody to start taking responsibilities for their actions.
THE STATUS QUO HAS GOT TO GO.Our govt is now ran by big business.
New rule–
LRB doesn’t get responded to.
She doesn’t respond to fact and arguments.
She refuses to acknowledge when a point has been won by the other side. Example–passing Wikipedia text off as her own writing in a blatent act of plagiarism
She posts with the intention to harass rather to dialogue.
If those are the rules for exclusion, then I’m going to have to keep track and make a list.Others fit the criteria.
“How can you say things like that LRB?”
Because they are true.
If I’m wrong explain how on July 27, 2006, in Doda India, a 14-year-old girl is killed when a militant Muslim tosses a grenade at her family, is the fault of Israel.
I can come up with thousands of examples just like this.
BTW, spying inside the US had nothing to do with it.Our spying in the U.K. and Europe had everything to do with it, and was legal at the same time.
For the second time since GW was elected, I can say “job well done”.The first time was our “good war” in Afghanistan.
No response?Religous extremists of ALL faiths commit murder all over the world.Christians too.You really don’t wanna go there at the risk of furthering your image as a nincompoop.
“She posts with the intention to harass rather to dialogue.”
If you want dialog, don’t say such uniformed things. I WILL call you out on it.
LRB,So by the power of one {ONE,1,uno,ein} example.1.3 billion people of the Islamic faith have banded together to rain death and destruction upon Wichita,Kansas for what purpose?
“Religous extremists of ALL faiths commit murder all over the world.
Christians too.”
They you could provide many examples of Christians killing people for Christ.
Please provide them.
“LRB,So by the power of one {ONE,1,uno,ein} example.1.3 billion people of the Islamic faith have banded together to rain death and destruction upon Wichita,Kansas for what purpose?”
This is straight out of the Koran.
IX. 5-6: Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them.
IV.76: Those who believe fight in the cause of God.
IV.74: Let those who fight in the cause of God who barter the life of this world for that which is to come; for whoever fights on God’s path, whether he is killed or triumphs, We will give him a handsome reward.
VIII.39-42: Say to the Infidels: if they desist from their unbelief, what is now past shall be forgiven; but if they return to it, they have already before them the doom of the ancients! Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it God’s.
The inquisition, witch trials, the crusades, etc.You know, middle school history stuff.NINCOMPOOP, I warned ya.
If you want dialog, don’t say such uniformed things. I WILL call you out on it.
http://www.now.org/nnt/03-98/brmnghm.html
http://www.publiceye.org/ifas/fw/9503/10years.html
http://www.gargaro.com/bomb.html
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0486358/#comment
Wow that was hard LRB, next.
YOU ROCK .morg
“The inquisition, witch trials, the crusades, etc.You know, middle school history stuff.NINCOMPOOP, I warned ya.
If you want dialog, don’t say such uniformed things. I WILL call you out on it.”
So, because of the Crusades 700 years ago, three Christian children get beheaded by muslims on their way to school in Indonesia in 2006.
I see.
“They you could provide many examples of Christians killing people for Christ.
Please provide them.”
DONE.
Abotion clinic bombings aren’t perputrated in the name of Christ.
Next?
You are such a predictable character I already had this ready:
non se·qui·turPronunciation: ‘nän-’se-kw&-t&r also -”turFunction: nounEtymology: Latin, it does not follow1 : an inference that does not follow from the premises; specifically : a fallacy resulting from a simple conversion of a universal affirmative proposition or from the transposition of a condition and its consequent2 : a statement (as a response) that does not follow logically from or is not clearly related to anything previously said
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140296271/lewrockwell/104-6062658-6464755
How about this?
Denial is not a river in Egypt.I have noticed a major character difference in conservatives. They don’t seem to deal well with uncomfortable facts.
“You are such a predictable character I already had this ready:”
Please find one reference to Christ in the given links (as in Jesus told me to kill). Better yet, find one reference to the word “Jesus” in any of those links.
Knock yourself out.
I can find thousands of examples when Muslims kill because Mohammed told them to do so.
LRB,
Oh, really? Seems to me the Army of God murders EXACTLY in the name of Christ.
http://www.armyofgod.com/
You’re out of your depth here, LRB. You may want to quit now and save yourself some embarrassment.
LRB, how would you like your crow served?
Main Entry: nin·com·poopPronunciation: ‘nin-k&m-”püp, ‘ni[ng]-Function: nounEtymology: origin unknown: FOOL, SIMPLETON
politicalmon,not with my tax dollars!
“How about this? ”
This has nothing to do with the subject.
Anything else?
I realize your liberal mind, sauteed in the brine if relativism throughout your liberal education, struggles mightily with the foreign concept that there are bad people who really, really want to kill you. Therefore your Pavlovian response is to find reasons you are bad too.
It’s like watching a trainwreck in slow motion.
nuke the stupid mom troll
LRB you are not making sense.Bye bye.
“Oh, really? Seems to me the Army of God murders EXACTLY in the name of Christ.”
So a very small group of loonies belive Christ tells them to kill. Therefore it’s ok to try and plant bombs on 10 airliners in the name of Allah.
It’s all the same to you, right?
LRB,
Funny to hear YOU describe the Army of God as a small group of loonies. However, on the very criteria you introduce, there’s the small matter of Matthew 10:34 (New International Version):
“Do not suppose I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.”
So far this morning, LRB, you’ve provided the WeBlog with the spectacle of a fanatic spewing hatred in Christ’s name. You may want to think about that some before you post again.
“So far this morning, LRB, you’ve provided the WeBlog with the spectacle of a fanatic spewing hatred in Christ’s name.”
Where and when did I claim my religious affliation?
LRB, the colonization of the New World is an excellent example of murder in the name of Christianity.
The conflict in the Mid-East has probably become a clash of civilizations. If we haven’t already reached the point of no return, we soon will. We have BushCo to thank for that.
FALSE DICHOTOMY
“So a very small group of loonies belive Christ tells them to kill. Therefore it’s ok to try and plant bombs on 10 airliners in the name of Allah.”
It’s all the same to you, right?
Yep. You can’t get your head around it because your a Christian. Both sides are wrong. But you want to glass over the middle east because a christan iman tells you so.Pat Robertson wishes for the assination of political leaders he doesn’t agree with. We can dig up examples all day long.If a group really wanted to take down a plane, shoulder fired stinger missles variations are readily available from the Chinese.
Sorry I’m just not scared.
LRB,
Your religious affiliation is a red herring. I ain’t going to play that.
The real issue, LRB, is that you denounce Islam as a religion that preaches violence while exonerating Christianity of the same charge. The verse I cited refutes your claim by showing that Christ himself draws the Christian mission in violent terms.
Are you a big enough person to admit you were wrong?
You can’t be wrong when you do the lord’s work.Kinda like the crusades, huh?Be afraid.God is telling people all over the world conflicting things.Why does God hate people?
CF,Your primary mistake is using the term, “LRB” and “person” in the same sentence. There is no correlation between the two. LRB is nothing more than a symbol of the hyper-christian attempting to take control of this country. The group contains the likes of Connie Morris, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Paul F whatever, and the rest of the far right groups.
Their mission is to not stop until the witch trials begin again. To them, the earth is still flat, the sun follows the earth and storks still deliver babies.
Thank God I don’t believe in any of that s**t, but if that damn easter bunny doesn’t quit eatin my carrots, I’m making chicken soup outa him.
“The verse I cited refutes your claim by showing that Christ himself draws the Christian mission in violent terms.”
Explain this one.
Matthew 26:52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.”
But let’s be honest. You’re just looking for anyway to show that Islamofascists who want to behead your children are the same as your local Baptist congregation. You are even willing to pull a Bible verse completely out of context to do it.
Islamic murderers = Christianity
That’s your real point, isn’t it? Be honest.
“You can’t get your head around it because your a Christian.”
When did I say I was any religion?
“Sorry I’m just not scared.”
Someday when a loved one of yours is killed by a Muslim you will be.
I think I’m understanding how Bush organizes the word fascist with Islam. Bush sees Iraq as the biggest source of terrorism (okay, it isn’t but it’s Bush I’m talking about). Halliburton, under Dick Cheney, did business with Iraq while under a trade embargo violating American law. The corporate support for Iraq, when Bush was saying Saddam worked with Bin Laden (this too wasn’t true but nobody accused Bush of being honest) is the corporate support Bush sees for Islam.
So the Islamic fascists are anyone who did business with Dick Cheney, also a fascist.
Oh, and Tracy, Operation Rescue supports the use of violence and they are a Christian organization. Their spokesperson is a convicted clinic bomber.
http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Pictures/9-11/jump03.jpg
On 9/11 these innocent people learned what Islam is all about.
Yes Doug, a dangerous killer.We could spend some time listing the atrocities commited “in His name”.A waste of time here.
I would remind you that hatred and separateness have brought humanity to the present condition.
“I would remind you that hatred and separateness have brought humanity to the present condition.”
So all the terrorists want is a nice group hug. Maybe we can make smores around a campfire and sing folksongs.
That’ll make things better.
LRB are you REALLY scared outta your shorts by angry folks on the other side of the planet? OR, are you shilling fear for the sake of politics to front reactionary right wingers to “protect us”?
“LRB are you REALLY scared outta your shorts by angry folks on the other side of the planet? OR, are you shilling fear for the sake of politics to front reactionary right wingers to “protect us”?”
The angry folks on the other side of the planet are here. And they have no qualms about killing you and your family.
Someday you liberals will get it. Unfortunatly millions of innocent Americans might die until that happens.
LRB has successful hijacked this thread by asking for examples of Christian terrorism.
*The Crusades
*The Spanish Inquisition
*The 30 Years War (Roman Cath v. Protestant–a particularly vicious war by the way)
*Queen Mary I–”Bloody Mary”
*The murder of anabaptists for more than a century in central Europe (see “Martyr’s Mirror”)
*The genocide of American aboriginals (godless savages)
*The enslavement of Africans (ditto–they bear the mark of Cain)
*Abortion clinic bombers
*Right-wing Christian fanatics who believe that Israel has to destroy Middle Eastern Islam for some kind of “end time” bullsh*t heresy
*White Christian supremist groups like Tim McVey associated with.
*****
Now that we’ve blown that canard out of the water and blasted the shards into outer space, let’s return to our regularly scheduled program.
Are jihadis fascists?
No. This is a very informative article on the subject, “Who’s a fascist?” from Salon.com
http://dir.salon.com/story/books/feature/2004/04/19/fascism/index.html
Robert O. Paxton, a former professor of social sciences at Columbia University and longtime historian of the political movement, sets out to formulate a working definition in his new book, “The Anatomy of Fascism.” According to Paxton, there have only been two true fascist regimes, Nazi Germany and Italy under Mussolini, the man who gave fascism its name. And some of what you think you know about them is wrong.
Paxton argues that most theories about fascism focus on what the leaders of “the major political innovation of the 20th century” said or wrote, rather than on what they actually did. Big difference. For example, in their early stages (and most fascist movements never make it out of those early stages), fascist leaders and thinkers attacked “international finance capitalists” and the “soft” bourgeoisie, promising to defend the rights of workers, artisans and peasants. Once in power, if they got that far, they jettisoned such plans, except for a few strategic concessions.
“The Anatomy of Fascism” takes readers step by step through the budding, flowering and withering of these two nightmare states, in the process comparing them with other less successful efforts to set up similar governments in Spain, France and some non-European nations. Only at the end does Paxton reveal what he’s settled on as an acceptable definition. Here it is:
“… a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.”
To that, I would add that usually in fascism we see a leader exalted to god-like status–Der Fueher Hitler in Germany, El Duce in Italy, and the Great Helmsman Mao Tse Tung in China during the Cultural Revolution.
People weep when he speaks, they throw themselves at his feet etc.
Jihadists have nothing like that . . .
Another pantie-wetting repub hiding under the bed.
I am sorry for you LRB if you REALLY believe as you post. You must be afraid almost to even go outside.
I call scary terrorism an overplayed hoax. If it WERE as dangerous as you portend…….or pretend, we should be having attacks every 2nd Tuesday or more. And it just is not happening. So I aint buying it. Increasingly, America aint buying it. And that is a good thing. Irrational baseless fear is not a good ingredient for democracy.
There is only one “terrorist” organisation in the Middle East and that is The Rogue State of Israel, which gets their funding and rearmament from the complicity of Bush administration’s neocons.
The “Israel Experiment” has failed.
After 1.6 trillion dollars of American taxpayer money the only thing which Israel produces with consistency is murder and mayhem and terrorizing Arabs.
The only way to stop terrorism is to stop funding and supporting Israel and make peace with the Arab countries. It’s time to put the so-called war on terror to bed.
Hasn’t that become obvious?
“I call scary terrorism an overplayed hoax.”
As opposed to not so scarey terrorism.
People like you are the reason I pray we have another civil war in the US. The tree of Liberty needs its roots fed.
Well said Ed! And you did it without expletives and exclamation points. I agree.
And the price for believeing otherwise is 4 dollar a gallon gasoline. Take your choice….
The funniest part is that the liberals have been the biggest supporters of Israel.
Oh, Ed,
“The “American Experiment” has failed.”
I fixed it for you.
Jr
I’m guilty about expletives but I never use exclamation points.
[q]And the price for believeing otherwise is 4 dollar a gallon gasoline. Take your choice….[/q]
Now Israel prices gasoline.
Just when I think the liberals can get no dumber, there is always someone like you to give me faith.
LBR
You are the most full of shit thing I’ve ever skimmed over.
Nutty as a fruitcake…….
I support Israel to defend itself, but I do not defend Israel to go off on others just because they can.
I support any group that is defending itself.
Israel has gone beyond defending and is now the aggressor.
“LBR
You are the most full of shit thing I’ve ever skimmed over.
Nutty as a fruitcake…….”
From a terrorist supporter like you I will wear your comments like a badge of honor.
Pressure on the destruction on oil reserves drives-up the price of crude oil, you dumb fuck…..
The only thing that would keep our constitution intact and the same liberties we enjoy now after Civil War in America is with the liberals winning. I would hate to see what would happen to our great nation if the conservatives won.
“I would hate to see what would happen to our great nation if the conservatives won.”
We know what would happen if people like you won.
The people who flew planes into the WTC would be treated as heroes. The servicemen fighting terrorisrm would be put on trial.
Am I getting warm?
As long as we have people like you here this is not a great nation.
So far I’ve seen no good explanation of why the phrase Islamic Fascism is not accurate. I find it perfectly fitting.
There is only one “terrorist” organisation in the Middle East and that is The Rogue State of Israel, which gets their funding and rearmament from the complicity of Bush administration’s neocons.
The “Israel Experiment” has failed.
After 1.6 trillion dollars of American taxpayer money the only thing which Israel produces with consistency is murder and mayhem and terrorizing Arabs and 4 dollar gasoline.
The only way to stop terrorism is to stop funding and supporting Israel and make peace with the Arab countries. It’s time to put the so-called war on terror to bed.
Hasn’t that become obvious?
“Pressure on the destruction on oil reserves drives-up the price of crude oil, you dumb fuck…..”
Those would be the oil reserves in Lebanon, right?
Oh, Heckler, Shut-up………
“So far I’ve seen no good explanation of why the phrase Islamic Fascism is not accurate. I find it perfectly fitting.”[liberal mode]
Oh you would say so you Halliburton worshiping, Dick Cheney loving, supporter of the Israeli bombing of petting zoos and daycare centers, republikkkan, running dog imperialist, capitalist pig.
[/liberal mode]
War in the Middle East is spreading, you dumb fuck…….Thanks to Zionist Israel……
You post from emotion LRB. As I cannot guess the source of that and have no desire to inflict pain on you out of that ignorance I am going to ignore you. I will not be igmoring your fear mongering agenda…….just you. You are melting down in front of us and I’ll just watch.
[q]War in the Middle East is spreading, you dumb fuck…….Thanks to Zionist Israel……[/q]
Thanks to the supporters of Islamofascist like you to be more correct.
Remove Zionist Israel and what you have is called peace and a buck a gallon gasoline.
LRB
Your doing a great job of keeping these guys wound up. Carry on.
“You post from emotion LRB. As I cannot guess the source of that and have no desire to inflict pain on you out of that ignorance I am going to ignore you. I will not be igmoring your fear mongering agenda…….just you. You are melting down in front of us and I’ll just watch.”
You refure to open a link and yet call me ignorant.
The irony is astounding.
You can’t ignore the truth.
Ed
You still love me, I’m touched.
“Remove Zionist Israel and what you have is called peace and a buck a gallon gasoline.”
The laws of supply and demand mystify you, right?
And 5 billion a week.
Oh look it’s Heckler who ALSO jumps entertainingly when startled.
“LRB
Your doing a great job of keeping these guys wound up. Carry on”
It’s just so predictable. Liberals have no backbone.
Yes, Heckler, you’re still loved, now shut-up……
“And 5 billion a week”
That is a number. Economics involves numbers.
That’s a good start.
There is only one “terrorist” organisation in the Middle East and that is The Rogue State of Israel, which gets their funding and rearmament from the complicity of Bush administration’s neocons.
The “Israel Experiment” has failed.
After 1.6 trillion dollars of American taxpayer money the only thing which Israel produces with consistency is murder and mayhem and terrorizing Arabs and 4 dollar gasoline.
The only way to stop terrorism is to stop funding and supporting Israel and make peace with the Arab countries. It’s time to put the so-called war on terror to bed.
Hasn’t that become obvious?
No Ed let Heckler dance.
Should be entertaining. We got the irrational kook LRB and the corporo fascist Heckler on the floor.
Wanna see why this country is so screwed up? Watch those two tango.
‘There is only one “terrorist” organisation …”
“If you repeat a lie long enough it will become the truth” — Joseph Stalin
Such an ugly sight?
JR
Sorry, don’t have time to dance. Gotta make money for the company. Just dropped in to say Hi.
Repeat: 2 plus 2 = 4
“Repeat: 2 plus 2 = 4″
Ourstanding. Economics also involves mathematics.
Within a year I predict you’ll begin to understand how gasoline is priced.
Oh, the biggest lie repeated:
“Israel has a right to defend itself”
It has no right to defend war-crimes……
Ed, let me guess, even though you have a Joooooo name, I bet you, like your hero Mr. Alphabet in Iran, deny the holocaust ever took plce, right?
LRB
You’re too stupid to predict anything……..
GTH
“It has no right to defend war-crimes……”
Is having your Hezbollah heroes sending Katusha rockets filled with ball bearing shrapnel indiscriminatly into civilian area a war crime? Or is the fact that they’re killing Jews make it ok?
Israel
Hey LRB show me how I have a dog in that fight.
Note how LRB changes from God to Jesus when it suits her purpose.
“The angry folks on the other side of the planet are here. And they have no qualms about killing you and your family.”
And you don’t think the innocent people in Iraq are not thinking the exact same thing? Or, in your sordid mind, they don’t matter?
LRB, I doubt you have any religious convictions, because to to so would have to include humanity, and that is something you do not posess.
“Manchuria 1931
Hey LRB show me how I have a dog in that fight.”
Those who ignore history are doomed to relive it.
“And you don’t think the innocent people in Iraq are not thinking the exact same thing? ”
And the terrorists are killing them too. And I doubt these poor Iraqis support Israel. Which pretty much shoots down the whole (Israel: Terrorist) argument.
LRB,
It’s always a pleasure to watch the fascist mind at work (’up is down, good is bad, we’re at war with Oceania, we’ve never been at war with Oceania), particularly one as set in its assertions as yours seems to be.
Still, I do feel compelled to point out that you have in NO WAY refuted my argument that Islam is not alone in employing the language of violence. And I will also point out that your cherry-picking of quotes from the Koran was every bit as de-contextualized as my own. But that’s the point. Anyone can extract from any religious scripture whatever points they want to make, and then try to inflate these into a global characterization of the religion.
But you seem to want to claim that this is not possible with Christianity, and that any wrongdoing on its part is strictly the business of the religious adherents and does not implicate theological doctrine itself. That’s a tough argument to make. The passage I quoted from Matthew is there whether you like it or not. And if you want to massage it into something more palatable, that takes you down the road of hermeneutics and interpretation that steers dangerously close to the relativism you so denounce in liberals.
There is one sense in which you are right to characterize the Jihadists as fascists: both depend on having an enemy and both require the intensification of fear. So when I call YOU a fascist, LRB, it’s because of your atavistic, reptile-brain hysteria that everyone had BETTER be afraid, and anyone who’s NOT afraid is a pointy-headed liberal intellectual who needs to be sent to a re-education camp. Or, as you hopefully put it, killed in a civil war.
We folks on the Left never tire of chuckling at the projection practiced by folks like you, LRB, on the Right. In denouncing others as fascists by fear-mongering and insisting on blind obedience to authority, you denounce yourselves.
“We folks on the Left never tire of chuckling at the projection practiced by folks like you, LRB, on the Right. In denouncing others as fascists by fear-mongering and insisting on blind obedience to authority, you denounce yourselves.”
At least you’ve demonstrated reading something other than the DNC pamphlet. For that I will give you credit.
You are quick, as all relativists are, to point out the fact that we are as bad as them.
One question:
The youg Iraqi muslim waiting in line for a cinstruction job in Baghdad is killed by a terrorist roadside bomb.
What does his death have to do with Christianity?
Good to have ya back CF! LRB arrived while you were away. Her very first post was that the editors of the New York Times should be dragged into the street and shot! With a few creative meanderings thrown in, it has been mostly the same from her since.
LRB,
I don’t get the point of your last question, though I do appreciate that you don’t try to run away from the label ‘fascist.’
And I know this is going to sound like a cop-out, but I have to get up to Kansas City. TTFN
J R, even I’D agree that the editors of the NYT should face a firing squad, though for exactly the opposite reasons that LRB would.
It’s just so predictable. Liberals have no backbone.
posting on a blog requires little backbone. For some it also requires little intelligence
Like you.
sorry Ed that was from LRB upthread I should have been clearer
My mistake as well, morg.
{ first one I’ve ever made, I thought that it would happen sooner or later:-}
The first thing that we learned in my college history classes was that religion is often a handy coverup for a true reason for a war. Most of the so called religious wars that took place through history and are listed above sometime ago have much more interior reasons that involve money, power, land, you know the story. Often, the best way for a leader to get people revved up and ready to give their lives is to hijack religion and use it for the purpose. So in that aspect, the fault lies neither at the feet of Christianity or Islam, but at the people that use religion for their own purpose.
Alot of the problem with the mideast was that it was left behind by the industrial revolution and that it was (is)under control of colonial for so long. These colonial powers exploited the countries for their resources while not advancing them to the level of living that the homenations had.
I digress, anyhow, my main point is that usually the reasons for wars are not religion, but power and money, ect. Those of you who blindly blame it on religion, whether you are condemning Christianity or Islam are just pepetuating the status quo and making things worse.
“LRB,
I don’t get the point of your last question, though I do appreciate that you don’t try to run away from the label ‘fascist.’”
I needn’t run away from the label you try to hang on me.
Sorry sweetie, it doesn’t fit.
I’m not a corporate shill. I detest nationalism. I have a hard time with authority. To me the military must only be used as a last resort. I think communism is possibly the worst form of government created by Europeans. Anarists should stay in coffee shops reading poetry.
But I don’t have any use for any of you liberals. You are all hypocrites. For example, the new democratic poster boy – Senator Barak Obama. This great black hope of liberalism recently gave a speech extolling the virtues of “smaller, gas-efficient cars,”. Yet he drives away from this speech in his SUV.
You can’t make this stuff up.
Main article: Social influenceIn a psychological context, manipulation means to influence a person or a group of people in such a way that the manipulator tries to get what he or she wants or makes a person believe something in a calculating, indirect and somewhat dishonest way. Like indoctrination, it is a form of psychological abuse.
For example, a manipulator will
use arguments that the manipulator does not believe in himselfuse of false reasoning as with fallacies and paralogismsor withhold or distort relevant information,or provide false information (disinformation)or “play” on the emotions (fear, hope, love…) of the person.physically move the person, like a puppet
Are we being manipulated by unsavory groups to fear the undefined Islamofacist?
LRB.
Commumism was not created by Europeans, it was created by and for jews! The Soviet Union was the ultimate evil, a talmudic dictatorship that saw 60 million White Christians killed at the behest of jews like lenin, trotsky and beria. Hitler, Franco and Mussolini would not have been possible without the very real threat of jew-bolshevism.
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
An excerpt from an E-Mail I received from A Saudi friend”
“An Italian friend of mine recently telephoned to ask whether Islam wasa fascist religion. I wondered why he had asked such a question untilof course he gave me the explanation that anyone these days could haveguessed.
“Well,” he said, “we have all heard US President George W. Bush use thephrase ‘Islamic fascists’ — to say nothing of equally defamatoryexpressions used by his colleagues and associates. Because of whouttered the phrases, they were naturally given wide circulation.”
Well, I told him not to worry. Because first of all, Bush has no ideaabout Islam; he is unable to make the imaginative leap that wouldenable him to understand what Islam means, how it is practiced or whyit is of such vital importance to people all over the world.
My Italian friend was in agreement with what I said but he still wantedto know why I thought Bush had used that particular phrase at thisparticular time.
“Well, let’s start from the beginning,” I said. “Mr. Bush used the word’crusade’ in the terrible confusion after Sept. 11, 2001. What Mr. Bushknew about the Crusades and how they are viewed — rightly or wrongly —in the Middle East is another matter but his use of the word was widelycriticized in the Western press. Obviously somebody knew something thatMr. Bush did not. And then there was Mr. Ashcroft, Mr. Bush’sborn-again Christian attorney general. He made the most ridiculous andabsurd statement about Islam — that it was a religion in which Godrequired you to send your son to die for Him. Anyone with even the mostrudimentary knowledge of Islam would have known that statement wascompletely false. And then we had Lt. Gen. William Boykin of the USArmy who, while in uniform, made public statements about Islam, whichoutraged both Muslims and non-Muslims all over the country. The listgoes on so I am not in the least surprised that Mr. Bush should havenow got himself a place on it.
“At the same time, let us not lose sight of the fact that the neoconsare upset, very upset in fact. Thirty-six days of Israeli attacks inLebanon failed to produce the desired results, the expected results,the results that Washington had been told would come. Hezbollah was noteliminated — far from it in fact; Hassan Nasrallah was not killed andthe two captured Israeli soldiers have still not been released. As theAmericans might say, ‘The situation is back to square one.’ Or, as Isee it, quite a long way before square one.”
“Why then,” my Roman friend asked, “does Mr. Bush support Israel soblindly and uncritically?”
“Well let me tell you what I read some years ago. In 1998 Mr. Bush asgovernor of Texas went to Israel. He went with Mathew Brooks, adirector of the Republican Jewish Coalition, and three other Republicangovernors. On the trip, Mr. Bush met Ariel Sharon and Sharon took himon a helicopter tour of the occupied territories. Brooks says, ‘Ifthere’s a starting point for Bush’s attachment to Israel, it’s that dayin late 1998 when he stood on a hilltop, eyes brimming with tears andheard his favorite hymn read aloud.’ He brought Israel back home in hisheart.
“In a speech in 2005, Mr. Bush recalled his helicopter tour withSharon. ‘It’s interesting how history works, isn’t it?’ he said. ‘Thefuture president of the US and the future prime minister of Israel wereflying across that country, with him describing to me how to keepIsrael secure.’
“In addition to undoubtedly being brainwashed on that trip, who knowshow many other ideas and plans Sharon planted in Mr. Bush’s head? Thereis, however, another major problem — those in the Republican Party withideological and political connections with Israel. For example, theperson who coined the oft-used and oft-condemned phrase ‘Axis of Evil’was a strong supporter of Israel. Many in the US administration sharethe same beliefs. And this is according to US media reports.”
Personally, I don’t believe that the religious affiliations of thosehigh in government should be a political issue. Unless of course, itinterferes with the way they do their job and keeps them from workingin what is perceived by the majority to be the national interest. I amcertainly not a believer in any of the all-too prevalent conspiracytheories but I do believe a large number of problems are created bycertain people who are well entrenched in the administration and whosesole objective seems to be to create misunderstandings and confusionbetween the good people of America and the world’s Arabs and Muslims.Also, it is worth pointing out here that the Muslim world was alwaysallied with the US in its fight against communism. Despite Russia’smany overtures, Muslims rejected communism.
I was very pleased that at its last meeting, our Saudi Council ofMinisters expressed dissatisfaction with the unfortunate phrase,“Islamic fascists,” and its negative and detrimental effects. Peoplehere must realize — most of them do — that the Jews rant and rave andgo into virtual hysteria if there is even the mildest criticism, not oftheir religion but of Israeli policies in the occupied lands. No matterwhat the atrocity or how bloody and savage it is, Israeli actions arenot be condemned or rebuked. To do so is to commit what has become oneof the worst sins in our modern world — to be guilty of anti-Semitism.
The reasoning is that we must accept whatever Israel does since toquestion it would be anti-Semitic (we Arabs are just as Semitic as theJews!) and anti-Semitism inevitably leads immediately and directly to aSecond Holocaust!
We should learn from the most avid supporters of Israel and how theyreact to criticism.
Any insult to us should be met with the highest-profile media backlash,though of course we must take the greatest care to prevent any kind ofviolent response. We should employ the same tactics as our adversariessince those tactics have served them well. Why should they not serve usjust as well?
And our intellectuals, those who are well educated and well informedand who understand social and political nuances, let them reply. Makeso much noise and commotion that no one will dare to use such anoffensive phrase as “Islamic fascists.”
Islamic Fascists.
Here’s what your religion of peace has been up to the past 5 months.
Enjoy.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks
Yep, LBR, can’t get any more tin hat than that.
From her persoal “wacky” website.
Walker, Where did this nut come from?
Well, looks like a regular dog fight.
LRB, quite a dialog you got going. You seem to be quite the queen of one-liners.
“Those who ignore history are doomed to relive it.”
You must mean like how you neocons forgot the lessons of Vietnam and got us into a war we can’t win (wanna make a bet?).
“The youg Iraqi muslim waiting in line for a cinstruction job in Baghdad is killed by a terrorist roadside bomb.”
I’m going to assume you mean a “young” Iraqi and a “construction” job. (Fast fingers will get you in trouble every time) Do we have proof that it was a “terrorist” bomb, or are you just shooting from the hip (or mouth as the case may be)? Maybe the bomb you speak of was a product of the civil war that BushCo says isn’t happening.
“It’s just so predictable. Liberals have no backbone.”
Yet you would never say that to my face. That would make you an expert on having no backbone, huh?
“This great black hope of liberalism recently gave a speech extolling the virtues of “smaller, gas-efficient cars,”. Yet he drives away from this speech in his SUV.”
It’s known as an “armored vehicle”. He uses it to keep people like you from shooting him. There’s always that danger when you go against conservatives. Oswald and Ruby were conservatives. So was McVey.Your comment has a racist tinge.
“I needn’t run away from the label you try to hang on me.Sorry sweetie, it doesn’t fit.”
Yep darlin, you’re quite the Heinz 57. Pretty mixed up.
“Is having your Hezbollah heroes sending Katusha rockets filled with ball bearing shrapnel indiscriminatly into civilian area a war crime?”
I’d say so. But so is blowing up children. Plenty of war crimes to go around. Does the conservative thing about colateral damage fit here? Or does that only apply in Iraq?
“Within a year I predict you’ll begin to understand how gasoline is priced.”
Within a year I predict we’ll be investigating certan oil companies to see EXACTLY how gasoline is priced.
“If you repeat a lie long enough it will become the truth” — Joseph Stalin
Seems you been taking lessons?
“You can’t ignore the truth.”
But you’re doing such a good job of it. But I’m sure things are quite different on your planet.
A comment about collateral damage: according to Israeli figures the vast majority of Israeli deaths were SOLDIERS. The whole thing was sparked by an attack on a MILITARY base. The Israelis responded to an attack on a MILITARY base with mass bombing of CIVILIAN targets. The vast majority of the deaths on the Lebanese side were CIVILIANS.
Looks to me like the Israeli civilian deaths were collateral damage. Any Hizbollah deaths on the Lebanese side were collateral to the attacks on Lebanese civilians and UN observers.
We even bombed Lebanese Army barracks miles from the front – and now we expect the survivors of those attacks to be on OUR side!
If we are going to gain the upper hand in this fight we must practice a sort of “devide and conquer” strategy. The Sunni – Shiite devide is a natural schism. Iran and Hizbollah are Shiite-based (although Hizbollah has Sunni and Christian support in Lebanon today). Syria and Hamas are Sunni (although Hamas receives Christian support in the Territories among disenfranchised Israeli subjects).
Much of Syrian, Lebanese, Iraqi, and Palestinian society if secular – that is they ’sort of’ prectice Islam or Christianity but are more interested in other things (much like us).
It has taken a tremendous outside force to unify all of these disparate factions and give the radicals an advantage. Lawrence of Arabia tried to unite them – he failed. Nassar, Khadafi, the elder Assad, Saddam – all tried and all failed to unite them. However, these disparate elements are now united – Bush’s invasion of Iraq coupled with Israel’s continued brutal oppression of Palestine have succeeded where so many others have failed. Even Persian Iran is united with the Arab world. They are united AGAINST us.
I question whether this is a good strategy for the United States to pursue.
I call Republicans facists, in particular the Christian Crusaders. They won’t even take care of their injured.Center for war-related brain injuries faces budget cutPosted 8/8/2006 10:01 PM ET E-mail | Save | Print | Reprints & Permissions | Subscribe to stories like this
By Gregg Zoroya, USA TODAYCongress appears ready to slash funding for the research and treatment of brain injuries caused by bomb blasts, an injury that military scientists describe as a signature wound of the Iraq war.House and Senate versions of the 2007 Defense appropriation bill contain $7 million for the Defense and Veterans Brain Injury Center — half of what the center received last fiscal year.
Proponents of increased funding say they are shocked to see cuts in the treatment of bomb blast injuries in the midst of a war.
“I find it basically unpardonable that Congress is not going to provide funds to take care of our soldiers and sailors who put their lives on the line for their country,” says Martin Foil, a member of the center’s board of directors. “It blows my imagination.”
The Brain Injury Center, devoted to treating and understanding war-related brain injuries, has received more money each year of the war — from $6.5 million in fiscal 2001 to $14 million last year. Spokespersons for the appropriations committees in both chambers say cuts were due to a tight budget this year.
“Well, looks like a regular dog fight.”
Let’s look at your Liberal Logic © one idiotic statement at a time.
“You must mean like how you neocons forgot the lessons of Vietnam and got us into a war we can’t win (wanna make a bet?).”
The only lessons of Vietnam are the ones the Terrorists learned. That is, American liberals don’t have the will to even protect themselves. They will cut and run at the first hint of danger. (aka Mr. Murtha).
“Do we have proof that it was a “terrorist” bomb, or are you just shooting from the hip (or mouth as the case may be)? Maybe the bomb you speak of was a product of the civil war that BushCo says isn’t happening.”
Well, let’s see … guy straps exposives to his waist, wanders into a crowd of innocent people hoping to get a job and earn money to feed their families, lights the fuse and kills 30 of them. Let’s se …. Yup, there it is. Page 117 in the Book of Common Sense. It’s a terroist act.
“Yet you would never say that to my face. That would make you an expert on having no backbone, huh? ”
I would tell that to your face and I would also tell your family in front of you. I would tell it to you little dog too.
Anything else?
“This great black hope of liberalism recently gave a speech extolling the virtues of “smaller, gas-efficient cars,”. Yet he drives away from this speech in his SUV.”
It’s known as an “armored vehicle”. He uses it to keep people like you from shooting him. There’s always that danger when you go against conservatives. Oswald and Ruby were conservatives. So was McVey.Your comment has a racist tinge.
It was a GMC Envoy. Not an armored vehicle. Obama is just a liberal hypocrite like the rest of you.
http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200608/14/0DDC_local_news.html
“Yep darlin, you’re quite the Heinz 57. Pretty mixed up.”
Yes, I’m not part of the hive-mind.
“Is having your Hezbollah heroes sending Katusha rockets filled with ball bearing shrapnel indiscriminatly into civilian area a war crime?”
“I’d say so.”
That’s progress.
“Within a year I predict you’ll begin to understand how gasoline is priced.”
“Within a year I predict we’ll be investigating certan oil companies to see EXACTLY how gasoline is priced.”
Here, let me help you.
http://www.nybot.com/
Anything else, Sweetie? Quite Easily Done as we say,
LRB,”This great black hope of liberalism recently gave a speech extolling the virtues of “smaller, gas-efficient cars,”. Yet he drives away from this speech in his SUV.
You can’t make this stuff up.”—Did you make up Obama’s “smaller” quote? Your link does not say “smaller”. Hybrids get better mpg without reducing size/weight.
http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200608/14/0DDC_local_news.html“Obama says consumers can make the difference by switching to higher mileage hybrids.”
An editors note says that Obama’s Envoy is flex-fuel, and he fills it up with E85 whenever possible.
“Smaller” vehicles, implying unsafe, is a bogus right-wing talking point against higher mpg.
Safety comes from design and materials, not size and weight. http://oilendgame.comhttp://obama.senate.gov/press/060719-senators_introduce_legislation_to_reduce_gasoline_consumption_by_half_a_trillion_gallons/index.html
http://www.simmonsco-intl.com/research.aspx?Type=msspeeches
It is all about the oil………
LRB seems to be a bit truth-challenged; just like Rightie Bryan Brown. Maybe LRB hopes to get rewarded for that like Brown did with a cushy taxpayer-paid job.
“An editors note says that Obama’s Envoy is flex-fuel, and he fills it up with E85 whenever possible.”
And when he can’t ind on of the 12 stations across tha nation carrying E85 he fills his bling-bling mobile with premium and burns it at the rate of 11 mpg.
But he means well. We really thinks we little people should drive more fuel efficient cars. Its just he is better than us and he needs to waste fule. After all, because of his caring for the environment he is entitled to burn a little more fuel that us.
Sen. Obama consoles the people, saying, “Do not imagine, comrades, that environmental leadership is a pleasure. On the contrary, it is a deep and heavy responsibility. No one believes more firmly than Comrade Gore that all people are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?”
An editors note says that Obama’s Envoy is flex-fuel, and he fills it up with E85 whenever possible.”
And when he can’t find one of the 12 stations across the nation carrying E85 he fills his bling-bling mobile with premium and burns it at the rate of 11 mpg.
But he means well. He really thinks we little people should drive more fuel efficient cars. Its just he is better than us and he needs to waste fuel. After all, because of his caring for the environment he is entitled to burn a little more fuel that us.
Sen. Obama consoles the people, saying, “Do not imagine, comrades, that environmental leadership is a pleasure. On the contrary, it is a deep and heavy responsibility. No one believes more firmly than Comrade Gore that all people are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?”
Since LRB wouldn’t respond to this earlier, I’m re-posting it.
This LRB person insists she’s a “progressive,” yet she argues that all of Islam supports the violent overthrow of the United States, that W’s policies protect us and that if we knew what was good for us, we’d all support W and the neo-con agenda and hate the NY Times.
Somehow, I don’t see that jibing with “Fighting Bob” La Follete Sr who opposed the US entry into WWI, who opposed arming merchant marine ships (for which he was called “a skunk who should be hanged” by Theo. Roosevelt), and for FREEDOM OF SPEECH. He also, according to Wikipedia, “campaigned for child labor laws, social security, women’s suffrage, and other progressive reforms. He opposed the prosecution of Eugene V. Debs and other opponents of the war and played a key role in initiating the investigation of the Teapot Dome Scandal during the Harding Administration.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._La_Follette%2C_Sr.
Does any of that sound like anything LRB writes? She’s about as “progressive” as Joe Williams is “independent.” She can’t bring herself to criticise any Repukes and the only Dem she likes is Joe Loserman.
“This LRB person insists she’s a “progressive,” yet she argues that all of Islam supports the violent overthrow of the United States,…”
Islam doesn’t want to overthrown the US. They want you to covert or die.
As far as progressives, I agree with everything Fighting Bob stood for and more. But even he would be sickened to know the current crop of liberal fundies who have hijacked the democratic “working man’s” party.
Okay, LRB, thanks for finally responding.
If you can’t see the contradiction between Fighting Bob arguing for free speech and at the same time condemning the NY Times for free speech, or between Fighting Bob’s opposition to WWI and your damn the torpedos support for Iraq, or Fighting Bob’s support of SOCIALIST Eugene V. Debs while you rail at anything that smacks of wealth distribution, you are just stupid.
Let me rephrase that, stuuupid!
I’m starting to think, however, that nobody can be that stupid. Which means you’re just playing a game to get a response . . .
Man I hope all of Islam doesn’t want us to convert or die…if so seeing that 24% of the world population is Muslim, hell we should be getting bombed daily if that’s the truth.
On the other hand, Christians repeatedly try to convert others, or say others are evil and want to kill you- so we must kill or convert them first.
You know, it’s odd, I haven’t had one Muslim ever try to convert me, but I’ve had a whole mess of Christians try.
How many Muslims are in the US…and yet, I haven’t been chased by a knife weilding burka wearing lady, nor a bomb planted in my car…but I hear a whole lot about how EVIL these people are. HMMM.
“Islam doesn’t want to overthrown the US. They want you to covert or die. ”
SOME Ismalists want that. Not all; not even a significant poriton. With all your supposed worldliness I would think you would know that.
LRB – you are truly full of it.
Just out of curiosity, how many people on this board has been attacked or even attempted to be converted by a Muslim?
I lived in a Muslim country for three years and no one ever tried to convert me.
LRB stands for a Laughably Retarded Bonehead.
Okay, LRB, thanks for finally responding.
If you can’t see the contradiction between Fighting Bob arguing for free speech and at the same time condemning the NY Times for free speech …”
No. I can tell the difference between free speech and treason.
Would it have been ok for the NYT to publish troops movements or invasion plans in WWII?
BTW: Eugene Debs would be considered far to the right of you current crop of pointy-headed liberals.
I am always for wealth distibution. I think wealth from you liberals should be taken from liberals and given to those who actually work for a living. Because anyone who has to work for a living wouldn’t be a liberal. Works insires a nobel dose of common sense in a person. And as we all know, common sense is the antipathy of all things liberal.
I don’t know that I have ever even met a Muslim. Perhaps I have and they keep it to themselves.
Didn’t Christ say something about praying in a closet?
YOU are an irrational LRB. You are either yourself irrationally afraid or shilling it to make others afraid.
If you are REALLY that afraid I suspect you have very few issues in your life to distract you and thus lots of time to invent fear. Such is not the case for most of us.
“LRB stands for a Laughably Retarded Bonehead.”
And this come from someone calling himself “Captain America”.
I bet you live in your parent’s basement.
Liberals don’t work? Wow, that’s a new one on me. Tell me how that works out?
She’s a troll folks. They feed on attention. Bury her in links and otherwise ignore her and she will get bored and go away.
Who is a troll?
LRB = troll.
Yup, I’m with you, JR.
This LRB or “Lauren Bandler” has caused a lot of trouble on another blog called “F*cked Company.”
Google it, you’ll see.
Anyway, she’s not for real. She’s a troll playing mind games.
Time to pull the plug on “her.”
LRB,”I would tell that to your face and I would also tell your family in front of you. I would tell it to you little dog too.Anything else?”
Oh really? My email is live. I’ll be waiting for you to make arrangements.
XXX,
I don’t think this one lives anywhere near Kansas, hehe.
Thank God.
LRB (aka troll)
1) Anything LRB quotes someone saying is probably her own made-up, illogical, BS, ranting.
2) LRB: “And when he can’t ind on of the 12 stations across tha nation carrying E85 he fills his bling-bling mobile with premium and burns it at the rate of 11 mpg.”
“the 12 stations across the nation”?http://www.e85refueling.comhttp://www.e85fuel.com/news/081006fyi.htm
3) LRB: “11 mpg”? The Envoy has an inline 6 cylinder, EPA estimates 15/22 mpg, city/hi-way.
It’s a HUGE shame that this blog does not have a credibility rating system.
Jr
I bet LRB has a face like a can of worms.
A troll, as defined by the liberal hive mind, is someone who presents an argument they can not refute.
Guilty as charged.
“LRB: “11 mpg”? The Envoy has an inline 6 cylinder, EPA estimates 15/22 mpg, city/hi-way.”
It’s a gas guzzler.
Capn, you’ll notice I got no snappy comeback to my last post.
Looks like LRB let his/her mouth overload his/her ass. I notice there’s nothing in my email.
Typical conservative…lots of tough talk but no back-up.
“Typical conservative…lots of tough talk but no back-up.”
You liberals ran away from Viet Name.
You liberals ran away from Somalia.
You liberals are about to run away from Iraq.
Afghanistan is next.
Bin Laden counted on the cowardess of you liberals. So far, he is right.
Sorry if you get your little sleepers in a bunch, but these are the facts.
Don’t change the subject, LRB. You still haven’t emailed me. My family and my little dog are waiting. You’re a typical loud-mouthed conservative coward.
“You liberals ran away from Viet Name.”
I don’t recall a conflict in anyplace called “Viet Name”. But if you’re talking about Vietnam (it’s one word, not 2), seems to me that it was Nixon that pulled us out of that one. Wasn’t he one of yours? I’m very familiar with Vietnam. How much time did you spend there? Since it was us Liberals that ran away, how many conservatives are still over there fighting the good fight? When I was there, we all wanted out of that hell-hole. Didn’t matter whether you were Democrat or republican.
“You liberals ran away from Somalia.”
America really didn’t have a dog in that fight. Wasn’t that a UN thing? I thought conservatives had no use for the UN. But I guess you conservatives need to have a war going on somewhere to be happy. It seems to take a lot of killing to keep your panties wet, doesn’t it?
“You liberals are about to run away from Iraq.”
As opposed to “staying the course”. How’s that working, LRB? Please tell me again about all the good news in Iraq?
“Afghanistan is next.”
It may be. But I don’t recall any Democrat in congress calling for withdrawal from Afghanistan. Can you enlighten me, or shall we just ad this to your long list of lies and half-truths?
“Bin Laden counted on the cowardess of you liberals. So far, he is right.”
Us Liberals want him found and punished for his crimes. Considering what he did on 9/11, I’d think you conservatives would want that, too. If this country wasn’t lead by a moron, we might get that done. Wasn’t Bush the one who said, “We’re gonna find him. We’re gonna smoke him out!”. Again, how’s that working out?
“Sorry if you get your little sleepers in a bunch, but these are the facts.”
Not even close.
“it’s one word, not 2″
Really?
http://www.vietnamnet.vn/
“Again, how’s that working out?”
Just as he seem to have planned it. He counted on the liberals having no resolve. Which is the case.
Yes, really. (Enjoyed the picture of the lovelies in their swimsuits).
http://news.google.com/news?q=Vietnam&hl=en&hs=TS8&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official_s&sa=X&oi=news&ct=title
http://www.pbs.org/battlefieldvietnam/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/worldguide/destinations/asia/vietnam/
I guess you might be Vietnamese, but on this blog, we post in English. In English, it’s “Vietnam”. That is, unless your a Forrest Gump type.
“Just as he seem to have planned it. He counted on the liberals having no resolve. Which is the case.”
It probably is just as he planned it. Let’s tally the results:
A needless war
The deaths of over 2,500 American soldiers
Dumping over 300 billion dollars into a bottomless money pit
The removal of our civil liberties
The disgrace of America’s name in the world community
The distruction of 2 sovereign nations
Unlike the current administration, at least OBL has a “plan”.
Still waiting for that email, Sugar.
[q]Yes, really. (Enjoyed the picture of the lovelies in their swimsuits).{/q]
That’s a lot of type for only using one hand.
“In English, it’s “Vietnam”.”
In Viet Nam it’s Vi?t Nam. I prefer to call a country by the name live there give it. But since you’re a liberal you know better. Why do the indigenous people know anyway, right?
I surprised you haven’t visited. Don’t you get a birthday card from there too?
Time to cut her off, folks.
She had her 15 minutes of infamy.
Say “bye, bye . . .”
LRB,I know this is a tough one to wrap your mind around, but we’re in America, not Vietnam (although I know a lot of you conservatives are stuck there, living in past glory). And since you’re going to get picky, in what province in Vietnam do they call it “Viet Name”, your original designation? Ok, I’ll give you your personal preference. Can I call it “conservative Military/Industrial greedy Pigs at the Trough fiasco” as my preference?
Still waiting for your email. What? No cutesy one-line comeback for that one?
Sorry Capn, you’re right. But I was having so much fun. I’m fixin to hit the road with my cruiser for an afternoon of riding pleasure. I’ll be out of the mood to mess with the turd, er troll when I get back.
LRB, don’t take any wooden stakes.
I was wondering the same thing, X.
I guess she calls China “Zhung Guo” or Japan “Nippon” or Germany “Deutschland,” because that’s what the local indigenous people call it.
And she would know because of the . . . birthday cards . . .
Yup, I gotta get ready for church.
A “godless secular humanist” that goes to church. The God-squad that posts here can’t believe it but it’s true.
So play time’s over. Have a good one!
LRB,”Islam doesn’t want to overthrown the US. They want you to covert or die.”Having known a number of Muslims, some of whom attend my church, and all good people, all I can say is that you’re full of shit, and dangerous shit at that!
About LRB, talk about a uniter of the bloggers!
Jed,I have not had time to read this entire thread, but the logic of your last post amuses me.LRB, doubtless, does not think that EVERY Moslem wants us to “convert or die.”However, it is a mouthful to always refer to “Radical Islam” “Jihadist Islam” “Fascist Islam” etc.Eisenhower, the “Supreme Allied Commander” during WW2, was GERMAN.Did that stop anyone from saying that we were at war with Germany?Did we have to qualify that statement with “Nazi Germany” every time we spoke, so as not to be offend “every German”?Jed, I fully understand that there are many shades and degrees to this debate:There are those who think “radical Islam” is no threat at all.There are those who think “radical Islam” will cease to be a threat if we just change our ways in the West.There are those who think that we can “nation build” in the Moslem world and show Moslems that they can have a better, democratic, peaceful life. (Bush’s view, and regardless of my admiration for Bush, I will state here that I am sometimes doubtful of this strategy.)There are also, of course, those who hate Jews in general and Israel in particular, and want Israel destroyed, some of those folks even think the destruction of Israel will be good for the United States.I don’t presume to pigeon hole your position, and it probably is too complex for you to fall, neatly, into one of the above categories.However, there ARE Moslem Mosques who teach that Jews are subhuman, that America and Israel must be destroyed.Palestinian television used to blast this hateful, anti-Jew propoganda during childrens TV programming until Arab diplomats told those in Gaza that they were hurting their own cause with such garbage.—-Actually, Nunberg says much in his piece with the statement “last just war.”Without getting into specifics, does Nunberg thinks all of the following were “unjust”?The Cold War in general? Korean War, Vietnam War, Reagan’s Grenada, Clinton’s Somalia, Clinton’s Haiti, Clinton’s Bosnia, Clinton’s bombing of Iraq, H.W. Bush’s Iraq and George W. Bush’s Iraq?If you want a definition of the “hard left” — being against every use of force since WW2 would get you pretty close.By the way, the Palestinian leaders (There never really was a “state” of Palestine) Supported the Automan Turks, WW1 Germany, WW2 Germany, Khadaffi, Saddam Husseins Iraq, Khomeini’s Iran, Stalin’s Soviet Union and Castro’s Cuba. It is easy to see why Palestinians weren’t treated well after WW2, they were on the side of Hitler! I feel sorry for them, their leaders have always been on the wrong side of history.The hard left, in the past, has actually marched with the flags of America’a enemies. That is not advocating “peace” that is advocating military victory of our enemies.(Jane Fonda posing in a Communist anti-aircraft gun seat and betraying our POW’s, who wrote her desperate messages that she turned over to the NVA, is only one example.)As a proud “neo-con” I am left trying to explain why Radical Islam, Fascist Islam, is dangerous.Somehow logic doesn’t work.The ideology of Radical Islam has not changed since the time of Hitler, their ally.Radical Moslem leaders state clearly that Jews are subhuman and deserve to die, just like Hitler said repeatedly, in many ways, (and I am called a “war monger.”)Churchill and FDR joked about the “war monger” label frequently, refering to themselves as such on occasion.Us “neo-cons” are as frustrated as Churchill and FDR. As much as the anti war left irritates us, we don’t want you to be destroyed anymore than us “true believers.”However, it is the “neo-cons” that are labeled, by the left, as “fascists,” rather than the modern day terrorists and Islamic Jihadists who openly advocate the same things that were advocated by Mussolini and Hitler, the real fascists and nazis!Why is this? Is it because, historically, the hard left in America has often been allied with America’s enemies? Is the defeat of America more important to the hard left than the defeat of true fascism?Don’t forget, Stalin had a treaty with Hitler long before Stalin became an “allie” of the United States in WW2.If Hitler had not double crossed Stalin in Poland, taking all of that country instead of leaving half for the Communists, we would probably have lost WW2.Communism has not always been the natural enemy of fascism and nazism, Hitler and Stalin clearly didn’t think so, at one time. The far left and far right meat each other, just like two people, one heading due East and one heading due West. Radical ideology forms a circle, not a straight line.Again folks, are you motivated by “peace” or are you motivated by a desire to see the United States defeated?And, of course, there are those of you who think that both America and Radical Islam, Fascist Islam, are morally equivalent and that we should just do nothing and accept what happens, without much concern for who is victorious. To you, I can only say that, “I will defend to my death your right to speak your views.” — Even if you seem unwilling to do the same for us “Neo-cons.”
Paul,A few months ago, I attended the dedication of a new and beautiful expansion of our local Mosque. It was also attended by at least one Rabbi, as well as several christian leaders (and our governor, of course).My Muslim friends have been adamant in correcting those of their community who think violence is the only solution to problems in the middle-east. While my friends were born Muslim, they are also converts to Americanism, and you know how converts prostletize! I am of the opinion that much that could help solve some of the problems that plague the middle-east is being learned by Muslims living here. Hopefully, it will be exported back home, but Bush’s current middle-east policy is making that difficult, to say thr least!
Neo-cons are traitors, not in the same class as Americans.
Israel stands knee-deep in the blood of Palestinians. It can only proceed in more violence and bloodshed, depriving others of their rights.
The Israel experiment is a failure.
“Israel stands knee-deep in the blood of Palestinians. It can only proceed in more violence and bloodshed, depriving others of their rights.
The Israel experiment is a failure.”
It’s because of people exactly like you that Israel was created in the firt place. Your kind tried to kill them all in death camps. Failing to do that you are trying to finish the job now.
It ain’t gonna happen. Face it.
“I guess she calls China “Zhung Guo” or Japan “Nippon” or Germany “Deutschland,” because that’s what the local indigenous people call it.”
It’s Nihon, not Nippon.
But that doesn’t make any difference to you. You just call ‘em Japs, right?
Ok LRB
That is over the line.
I have been reading Ed for over a year. He is against Zionism not Jews! In all I have ever read from him I have never seen any reference to “killing Jews” or “death camps.” YOU can wave your arms and be as big a kook you like in this forum but you do NOT get to assign baseless assertions to other posters.
“I have been reading Ed for over a year. He is against Zionism not Jews! In all I have ever read from him I have never seen any reference to “killing Jews” or “death camps.” YOU can wave your arms and be as big a kook you like in this forum but you do NOT get to assign baseless assertions to other posters.”
Well let’s have a thought experiment, shall we?
What would happen to the Jews in Israel if the IDF was disbanded immediately?
Israel was formed because people turned to look away when they were being killed. Israelis are being killed every day becuase of terrorism. The recent war in Lebanon was the direct cause of Islamic terrorism. Not Zionism. You can spout all the Al Jazeera propaganda you want. It’s a free country.
But I ain’t buying this antisemetic line. And, no, I shall not be quite.
LRB
“Israel was formed because people turned to look away when they were being killed. Israelis are being killed every day because of terrorism.”
Israelis are retaliated against for killing Palestinians.
“The recent war in Lebanon was the direct cause of Islamic terrorism.”
Hezbollah captured two Israel solders, as they have done many times to trade for Palestinians women and children being held in Israeli jails without charges. The Israelis have trader many times before, nothing unusual about that.
LBR – re: “Your kind”
I do not deny that Jews were persecuted for a millenium in Europe, leading up to the Holocaust. This mistreatment came at the hands of EUROPEAN CHRISTIANS. Why do we now make Palestinians pay the price for that?
[q]Hezbollah captured two Israel solders, as they have done many times to trade for Palestinians women and children being held in Israeli jails without charges. The Israelis have trader many times before, nothing unusual about that.
[/q]
Right. And in return the Zionist monsters targeted Lebanese daycare centers and petting Zoos built by the benevolant Iranians and their Hezbollah humanitarians.
Go drink a glass of Chlorox and do humanity a favor. OK?
LRB
Rant away honey.
You are busted. You called Ed an advovcate for genocide. A statement like that requires more proof than your little though experiment.
One of the few posters I’ve seen on this forum call for summary justice in the form of murder is you.
I have posted before that there must be a reason for Eds obviously deeply held concerns. Current events in Lebanon bear some of his feelings out.
Similarly there must be a reason for your obviously deeply held and emotionally posted views. I’m not sure I want to know what that reason is. An admittedly unfair speculation is that you are a seeker of negative reaction. Until I know better I will have to proceed from that assumption.
One of the first massacrers was Deir Yassin in 1948 and that has been 418 Palestinians villages bulldozed ago.
Why was the Hospital bombed in Lebanon?
“Why was the Hospital bombed in Lebanon?”
So the Jooooos could kill as many innocent people as possible. Just like Al Jazeera told you.
And one of the seminal terrorist attacks was the terror-bombing of the King David hotel. That was carried out by the terrorist organization Stern Gang. The successors of that terrorist organization if the State of Israel.
JR
I supported Israel up until 1973 until I discovered what they were actually doing to the Palestinians.
I don’t like being “had” or seeing simple farmers butchered without a single reason other than Zionist greed. It’s that simple……….
“You are busted. You called Ed an advovcate for genocide. A statement like that requires more proof than your little though experiment.”
No, I said morons like Ed were resonsible for the Holocaust because they looked away as the Jews were being slaughtered.
But now that I think of it, he is just you average racist, anti-semite liberal.
All you living in Kansas are living on Indian lands. How many Indians did you slaughter in the process? Wichita was build for greed.
Move. Go back to where you came from.
Having elsewhere called for murder, LRB is now advocating that a poster she disagrees with commit suicide!
“Go drink a glass of Chlorox”
Ed do something for me.
Babysit this kook all you like but keep a cool head. Don’t let her get under your skin. It is like candy for her.
LRB – you raise a point. At least Indians are now allowed citizenship rights in the US. Perhaps you would support doing the same for Palestinians in Greater Israel? That ‘one-state’ solution has been firmly rejected by the Stern Gang.
[q]LRB – you raise a point. At least Indians are now allowed citizenship rights in the US. Perhaps you would support doing the same for Palestinians in Greater Israel? That ‘one-state’ solution has been firmly rejected by the Stern Gang.[/q]
Palestinians Arabs are citizens in Israel.
About 10% are. Not the rest. I’m referring to the ones confined in the “Territories” who Arial Sharon repeatedly referred to as “Israeli Subjects”. Even those small number who are afforded citizenship are denied many rights such as property ownership or to be able to bring in relatives. Israeli Jews ARE allowed such rights.
“Your kind tried to kill them all in death camps.”
YOUR words LRB presumably addressed to Ed. Suggestive of an active stance as opposed to mere passive acquiessence.
What kind are you implying that Ed is?
Shall I go drink some Chlorox too? What household cleaner would you recommed for Ben?
[q]About 10% are. Not the rest. I’m referring to the ones confined in the “Territories” who Arial Sharon repeatedly referred to as “Israeli Subjects”. Even those small number who are afforded citizenship are denied many rights such as property ownership or to be able to bring in relatives. Israeli Jews ARE allowed such rights.[/q]
You might want to check that thought.
“Israeli Arabs are full citizens of the State of Israel, with equal protection under the law, and full rights of due process. Unlike Jewish citizens, they cannot be drafted into the Israeli army, but they may serve voluntarily. There are currently twelve Israeli Arabs sitting as members of the 17th Knesset out of a total of 120 seats, and there is one Arab judge, Justice Salim Jubran, sitting in the Supreme Court of Israel. Ariel Sharon’s 2001 cabinet included one Israeli Arab minister, Salah Tarif, and in March 2005, Oscar Abu Razaq was appointed Director General of the Ministry of Interior. Arabic is one of Israel’s official languages.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel
Jr
She’s crazy, just leave it that, you’ll never bring her to reason………She may be just baiting you……
[q]What kind are you implying that Ed is?[/q]
One more time.
He is the type of person who would have looked away while people were being burned to death in his own community. He is a typical liberal. Although he, himself, would never have pushed the Zyklon-B down the shower holes.
Israel exists because of people like him.
Is that clear enough or should I dwaw a picture?
That is the claim – it is NOT the reality. If an Israeli Arab wants to bring in family members they are denied. And, add to that, how about the other 90% of the Palestinian population living in Greater Israel? The ones who are NOT considered Israelis under their Apartheid regime?
I call it a shame.
LRB has demonstrated a capacity to post creatively at times. She is obviously intelligent and informed. She is too passionate to be a mere shill. But LRB seems to crave negative attention and seeks to generate it.
What a waste.
Benjamin Franklin said,
“A learned blockhead is a greater blockhead than an ignorant blockhead”
Some body take LRBs measurements for a square tinfoil hat.
[q]That is the claim – it is NOT the reality. If an Israeli Arab wants to bring in family members they are denied. And, add to that, how about the other 90% of the Palestinian population living in Greater Israel? The ones who are NOT considered Israelis under their Apartheid regime?[/q]
If a Amrican citizen want to bring his Mexican famiy in he has the same problems.
That’s life.
As I read it they are offered citizenship, but refuse it. Having Israeli citizenship, as an Arab, almost prevents you from visiting other Arab countries.
“As I read it they are offered citizenship, but refuse it.”
No, that has never been offered. If it did happen then Jews would become a minority in Greater Israel. That is why they pursue an Apartheid policy toward Palestinians in the Territories.
“No, that has never been offered. If it did happen then Jews would become a minority in Greater Israel. That is why they pursue an Apartheid policy toward Palestinians in the Territories.”
Having been to Israel I have heard just the opposite of what you are saying.
If this is a recent change in Israeli immigration policy can you please post a source?
No, it is NOT a recent change. Israel has never offered a one-state solution in which Palestinians in the Territories would be given citizenship. I am not referring to those inside the pre-1967 borders but rather those Israeli subjects living in the West Bank and Gaza under Israeli military rule. Settlers are given Israeli citizenship rights even though they do not live inside pre-1967 Israel; Palestinians are not. They are a Stateless people living under Israeli rule. These are the people Sharon called Israeli subjects; they have zero humen rights.
Most of the west bank and Gaza have been peacefully returned to the Palestinians.
What areas are you exactly talking about? A Map would help.
Palestinians have been given limited self-rule in the Territories – they remain under Israeli martial law. Perhaps you have failed to notice that the IDF routinely goes into the Territories and “arrests” anyone they want to. That is hardly sovereignty. They were “given” Gaza but it remained isolated and under siege – land sea and air. The West Bank remains totally under Israeli control and has no outlet to the outside world.
You can give this all the Israeli “Ministry of Truth” spin you want – the fact remains that 100% of the Territories are under Israeli control. The Palestinians are only allowed very limited say in what happens there and they are prohibited any sort of true nationhood – notably any means to defend their territory.
Do you have any proof? A link would be nice. Again, it’s been my expereince that what you’re saying is not the case.
Judging by the frequency of posts in the last twenty-four hours, it looks like someone is in her manic phase. Expect a crash sometime soon.
Girl may want to get back on her anti-psychotic meds.
Tell us about the Dier Yassin massacre. Where the Zionists murdered the entire population. You must be thrilled about that.
Should be “Deir Yassin”
Note the name Menachem Begin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
The King David Hotel bombing (July 22, 1946) was a bombing attack against the British government of Palestine by members of Irgun — a militant Zionist organization, classified as a terrorist organization both by the British authorities and several Jewish organizations, such as the Jewish Agency, Haganah and Histadrut.
The Irgun, dressed as Arabs, exploded a bomb at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, which had been the base for the British Secretariat, the military command and a branch of the Criminal Investigation Division (police). 91 people were killed, most of them civilians: 28 British, 41 Arab, 17 Jewish, and 5 other. Around 45 people were injured.
The attack was initially ordered by Menachem Begin, the head of the Irgun, who would later become Israeli Prime Minister. The attack was commanded by Yosef Avni and Yisrael Levi.
The attack on the hotel was the deadliest attack against the British in the history of the Mandate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafr_Qasim_massacre
The Kafr Qasim massacre took place in the Israeli Arab village of Kafr Qasim situated on the Green Line, at that time, the de facto border between Israel and Jordan (Arabic: ??? ????, also known as Kafr Qassem, Kufur Kassem and Kafar Kassem) on October 29, 1956. It was carried out by the Israel Border Police (MAGAV) and resulted in 48 Arab civilians dead, including 6 women and 23 children aged 8-17. Arab sources usually give the death toll as 49, as they include the unborn child of one of the women.The border policemen who were involved in the shooting were brought to trial and some served short prison sentences
Now – how about your proof that Israel has returned the West Bank – and notably the Jordan River Valley – to its rightful owners.
It has been my experience that what you post are lies. ESAD.
More on the King David bombing
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/george_galloway/2006/07/sixty_years_since_the_king_dav.html
Remember the King David HotelSixty years ago, 92 people died in a bomb attack in Jerusalem. Were the perpetrators terrorists or freedom fighters? And were they very different from Hizbullah?George Galloway
I’ll be marching this Saturday, along with many thousands of others. By a striking coincidence tomorrow also marks the 60th anniversary of the bombing of the King David Hotel by the Irgun acting under the umbrella of the overall Zionist force, the Haganah. The attack killed 92 people, most of them civilians, some 17 of whom were Jewish.
It was organised by Irgun leader, Menachem Begin, who went on to be twice prime minister of Israel. His second period of office saw Israel’s “limited” 1982 invasion of southern Lebanon, which quickly become an assault on the whole country and claimed many thousands of lives.
I recalled all this when I read that Binyamin Netanyahu, former Israeli prime minister and darling of CNN, attended a commemoration this week of the Irgun’s actions, saying, “It’s very important to make the distinction between terror groups and freedom fighters, and between terror action and legitimate military action.” Well, quite.
There was no Hizbullah in 1946 or in 1948 when 750,000 Palestinians were driven from their homes to make way for the state of Israel. There was no Hizbullah in 1982; the organisation emerged after the Israeli invasion, after the massacres at Sabra and Shatilla refugee camps. It established a base in Lebanese society and its prestige grew enormously when it forced the Israelis out of most of southern Lebanon in 2000. I say most because Israel continued to occupy the Shebaa Farms, not that you would know that from western news reports, every single one of which talks of Israel withdrawing “completely” from Lebanon six years ago.
So now you liberal relativists are pointing to acts committed 50 years ago in your defense of terrorism upon Israel.
Who started the 1967 war?
Who started the 1973 war?
Who started the current Lebanon War?
Now that you’ve decided that the democratic party is anti-Israel, how do you intend to elect anyone to a national office given you just nuked your liberal Jewish vote?
The proper word that should come out of your mouth is d’oh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)
Lehi (group)From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, searchLehi LogoLehi (IPA: ['l?xi], Hebrew acronym for Lohamei Herut Israel, “Fighters for the Freedom of Israel”, ??”? – ????? ????? ?????) was an armed underground Zionist faction in pre-state Israel (British Palestine) that had as its goal the eviction of the British from Palestine, to allow unrestricted immigration of Jews and the formation of a Jewish state.
The British authorities regarded Lehi as a terrorist gang and called the organisation the Stern Gang (named after its first commander, Avraham Stern), a denunciatory label that persists in many historical accounts. The name Stern Group was also used at the time.
Foundations and foundingAvraham (”Yair”) Stern was originally an adherent of the Revisionist Zionist movement founded by Ze’ev Jabotinsky in the early 1920s and a member of Irgun, but separated from these groups in 1940 to form his own group, which he called Irgun Zvai Leumi be-Yisrael (National Military Organization in Israel).
Specifically, Stern believed that the Jewish population should focus its efforts on fighting the British rather than supporting them in World War II; and that forceful methods were an effective means to achieve those goals. He differentiated between “enemies of the Jewish people” (e.g. the British) and “Jew haters”, (e.g. the Nazis), believing that the former needed to be defeated, and the latter neutralized. To this end, he initiated contact with Nazi authorities offering an alliance with Germany in return for transferring Europe’s Jews to Palestine and the establishment of a Jewish state therein.
http://www.spectacle.org/495/deir.html
Two Snippets of Israeli HistoryFirst, two propositions:
1. By writing articles critical of Israel, I, as a Jew, open myself to accusations of self-hatred or antisemitism. This is such a complex accusation I will not try to deal with it in detail here; I will write more about it another time. In brief, I am proud to be Jewish, but I do not agree with much of the policy and behavior of Israel, the Jewish state. Despite the efforts of many, Jews and others, to blur the distinctions in order to serve their own agendas, dislike of Israel and hatred of Jews need not be synonymous. If I placed Israel off limits because I am Jewish, I would have no right to publish the Ethical Spectacle. One of the major missions of the Spectacle is to expose double standards, not perpetuate them.
2. Those who claim to hold the moral high ground ought to be examined even more closely than those who make no such claim. In large part because of Germany’s genocide against the Jews, Israel is shrouded in a fog that, from the outside, may seem like a moral glow. But this fog hides profound hypocrisy, anxiety and (I hope) self-doubt.
The Assassination of Count BernadotteOn September 17, 1948, four men dressed in Israeli Army uniforms assassinated Count Folke Bernadotte, the man appointed by the United Nations to mediate the growing Arab-Jewish dispute. The four killers were never brought to justice.
Israel’s founding Prime Minister, David Ben-Gurion, knew who the assassins were: members of the so-called Stern Gang, a Jewish terrorist group of several hundred members founded in 1940. Ben-Gurion made a behind-the-scenes deal with the murderers: freedom from prosecution if they would cease violence. The man who organized the killing of Count Bernadotte was Yitzhak Shamir, who later became Prime Minister himself.
Deir YassinCertain names should be on everyone’s lips, but are on no-one’s. Most of the people I ask about Deir Yassin, people who profess to understand the politics of Israel, to be intimately involved with them, have never heard of it.
On April 9, 1948–thus five months prior to the killing of Count Bernadotte– the combined forces of the Stern Gang and the Irgun (military arm of the Revisionist party, commanded by Menachem Begin, later Prime Minister) carried out reprisals in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. Like the Stern Gang, the Irgun was responsible for many horrors; but Deir Yassin may have been the worst.
The villagers had actually signed a nonaggression pact with a nearby Jewish village when the Stern Gang decided to destroy Deir Yassin to teach the Arabs a lesson for over-running other Jewish settlements. As a senior Irgun officer later said:
The clear aim was to break Arab morale and raise the morale of the Jewish community in Jerusalem which had been hit hard time after time…The villagers resisted the 120 Jewish attackers, as they had a right to, and a heavy machine gun and a mortar were brought up to end the battle. Then the raiding party entered the village and started behaving like a Nazi Einsatzkommando. Twenty-three men were led off to a quarry and executed in cold blood, and between 90 and 230 others were shot down in the village.
Begin’s statement afterwards:
Accept my congratulations on this splendid act of conquest….News of Deir Yassin spread quickly and was influential in causing much of the Arab population to flee the borders of the newly declared Israeli state. Israel, of course, has built a whole structure of ownership based on the “abandonment” of their houses and lands, as well as arguing ceaselessly that those who fled in 1948 did so needlessly and do not deserve to come back.
(Source for the Deir Yassin information: Paul Johnson, A History of the Jews (Harper Perennial, 1987).
LRB,
It is hard to see history and current events through the correct prism, if you accept the ridiculous “holocau$t” myth.
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
According to former US ally Saniora, Israel carried out cross-border raids into Lebanon during the weeks before Hizbollah countered with an attack on a MILITARY outpost. Israel responded with massive attacks against civilian targets to “collectively punish” the population. It is PM Olmert who stated the purpose was punishment of the population.
If memory serves me I seem to recall LRB describing herself as a Christian. That explains a lot – it was the Christians of Europe who carried out pogroms against Jews for 1000 years. Apparently she feels guilt and shame for what her co-religionists did. Unfortunately, rather than seeking to repay them for what her religion did she wants to punish Palestinians for her sins.
“if you accept the ridiculous “holocau$t” myth.”
Oh…my…gawd.
Now there are Stormfronter’s here too.
“Apparently she feels guilt and shame for …”
We here in the real world call that “projection”.
It’s that bad, ‘eh?
Yes LRB, its that bad. You are “projecting” your guilt upon others.
Let’s get all of the liberal hive-mind mythology out on the table for us all to see.
1. The holocaust was a myth
2. The Lebanese war was started by Israel.
3. George Bush “stole” the election.
4. There is no such thing as terrorism.
5. The WTC destruction was a Bush/Cheney plot to steal oil.
6. Al Qaeda exists in every country except Iraq.
7. Iran is a friend of the US.
8. Hezbollah andd Hammas are “freedom fighters”
9. Sawing the heads off live innocent people on TV is a political statement.
10. Suicide bombing is not an act of terrorism by a cry for acceptance.
Please feel free to add more.
This is fascinating.
“Yes LRB, its that bad. You are “projecting” your guilt upon others.”
I see.
And how does that make you feel?
LRB,
The zionists commit their crimes and hide behind “anti-semitism” and the so-called “holocaust”. Don’t believe the hype.
I plan to attend the scholarly conference on the “holocaust”, in Iran next year. Will you be joining me? :)
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!!
“I plan to attend the scholarly conference on the “holocaust”, in Iran next year. Will you be joining me? ”
No thank you.
There’s a Big Foot and Elvis hijacked flight 93 seminar I plan on attending at that time.
So exactly where you you have your swastika tattoo? On your face or on your throat?
More projection I see LRB. I sure as hell do not subscribe to your list.
By the way – I’m still waiting for your proof that Israel has returned the West Bank and Jordan Valley to its rightful owners.
My comment about the cross-border raids are according to former US allies there – both Saniora and Hariri. I submit that they would be valuable allies in the war against extremism. Unfortunately, now they are enemies. Until recenlt, Lebanon was a friend to the US.
As for alQuada – the only foothold it had in Iraq prior to the invasion was in the Kurdish area. Now it is well entrenched there. Our strategy has served them well.
By the way, how is the WMD hunt going?
Ian – have fun at your “conference” – according to everything I have seen over the past half-century the Holocaust was all too real. It was the culmination of a thousand years of pogroms dating to the proclamation of Pope Urban in 1066.
LRB said that the Japanese call their country Nihon not Nippon.
Actually, they call it both.
At least they did when I LIVED THERE for two years.
Japan (??[1], Nihon or Nippon; officially ??? Nihon or Nippon-koku) is an island country in East Asia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nippon
Notice how arrogantly LRB puts forward information that is patently untrue.
By the way, the Chinese characters that represent ni pon would translate into sun root in English. The name comes in part from the fact that the sun rises in the east and Japan is east of all other asian countries.
[More projection I see LRB. I sure as hell do not subscribe to your list.]
Which point do you disagree with?
[By the way - I'm still waiting for your proof that Israel has returned the West Bank and Jordan Valley to its rightful owners.]
The Jews are the rightful owners. There were there 3000 years ago. They built Jerusalem.
[My comment about the cross-border raids are according to former US allies there - both Saniora and Hariri. I submit that they would be valuable allies in the war against extremism. Unfortunately, now they are enemies. Until recenlt, Lebanon was a friend to the US.]
Your Saniora seems to change his story a lot.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1154525822709&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
[As for alQuada - the only foothold it had in Iraq prior to the invasion was in the Kurdish area. Now it is well entrenched there. Our strategy has served them well.]
They why did the democrats approve this strategy?
[By the way, how is the WMD hunt going?]
How should I know. I was against us going to Iraq in the first place. I would rather have us in Iran right now.
[Actually, they call it both.]
Actually, they don’t. It’s Nihon.
Nice backpedaling though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom
Pogroms against the Jews[edit]Before the 19th CenturyMassive violent attacks against Jews date back at least to the Crusades, as well as the York Castle massacre of 1190.
In 1348, because of the hysteria surrounding the Black Plague, Jews were massacred in Chillon, Basle, Stuttgart, Ulm, Speyer, Dresden, Strasbourg, and Mainz — 12,000 in Mainz alone. A large number of the surviving Jews fled to Poland, which was very welcoming to Jews at the time.[1]
Jews were also massacred during the Khmelnytsky Uprising of Ukrainian Cossacks in 1648-1654.
http://www.flholocaustmuseum.org/history_wing/antisemitism/crusades.cfm
Anti-Jewish Myths Evolve in the Middle AgesImage:Antisemitic pamphlet with illustration of ritual murder of a Christian boy by a Jew.During the centuries of the Crusades, myths about Jews circulated, helping to heighten popular hatred and fear of Jews. It became commonplace among Christian groups to think of Jews as agents of Satan. Images of the satanic Jew adorned cathedral courtyards and town squares of Europe where “miracle” plays presented the life, death and Resurrection of Christ. Take, for example, the dramas of Oberammergau (also known as the Oberammergau Passion Play): Jews were depicted as demons who knew full well that Christ was the son of God. While Christ carries the cross, he is tortured by bloodthirsty, cursing devils with hooked noses, horns and tails. The Jews were made to seem as evil as Christ was divine.
The Myth of the Blood LibelImage:A depiction of the alleged murder of Simon of Trent by Jews. From a facsimile of Hartmann Schedel’s Nuremburg Chronicle or Buch der Chroniken, printed by Anton Koberger in 1493. Both the Buch der Chroniken and the facsimile are located at Kenyon College.A popular anti-Jewish myth that gained widespread acceptance was the notion that Jewsmurdered Christians because they need blood to perform satanic rites—the charge of ritual murder or blood libel. It was believed that Jews, usually led by rabbis, kidnapped Christian children on Jewish holidays in order to bleed them to death for occult rituals.
Image: Blood libel.According to medieval myth, Jews thought the Christian blood could purge the diseases caused by their own corrupt blood, or cure the wounds caused by circumcision. Christians believed that Jews mixed the blood in their ritual foods at Passover in order to sanctify them. Some thought that the captive Christians were crucified in order to reenact Christ’s murder. If a Christian child was murdered near Easter or Passover, there was a good chance that local Jews would be massacred. Into the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, at least two dozen ritual murder trials took place in Central and Eastern Europe.
Oh, and btw, LRB, I don’t call them Japs.
If I’m talking to them in Japanese, I call them “nipponjin wa.”
[Pogroms against the Jews]
So the holocasut was a myth, is that your conclusion?
Chaucer repeats one of these tales in the Canterbury Tales, Ben.
“The Jews are the rightful owners. There were there 3000 years ago. They built Jerusalem.”
But they left 2000 years ago – that does not give them the right to steal the land today.
1,4,5,6,7,9,10 I disagree with. 3 I am unsure of.
Hamas and Hizbollah did not exist prior to Israeli occupation.
Okay, let this be all the evidence we need folks.
I say that the Japanese can call their country either Nihon or Nippon. I base that on what the Japanese told me when I lived there and on Wikipedia encyclopedia (see link).
She insists I’m wrong and offers no proof or evidence.
LRB is one sick puppy. I hope it’s not catching.
[If I'm talking to them in Japanese, I call them "nipponjin wa."]
It’s Nihon jin. And if I were talking to you in Japanese it would be Anata Wa Baka.
[Pogroms against the Jews]
So the holocasut was a myth, is that your conclusion?
No – as I clearly stated – it was all too real. I happened in central Europe.
[and on Wikipedia encyclopedia (see link).]
Let’s look at the link
…officially ??? Nihon or Nippon-koku.
Officially it’s Nihon.
Anything else?
Hint: My daughter teaches in Tokyo.
Ben,
I used to believe in the “holocaust” but then I did my own reasearch. I have spent hundreds of hours researching the topic and the only conclusion I could come to is this: it never happened!
No Evidence Of Genocide
One of the most important aspects of the Red Cross Report is that it clarifies the true cause of those deaths that undoubtedly occurred in the camps toward the end of the war. Says the Report: “In the chaotic condition of Germany after the invasion during the final months of the war, the camps received no food supplies at all and starvation claimed an increasing number of victims. Itself alarmed by this situation, the German Government at last informed the ICRC on February 1st, 1945 … In March 1945, discussions between the President of the ICRC and General of the S.S. Kaltenbrunner gave even more decisive results. Relief could henceforth be distributed by the ICRC, and one delegate was authorised to stay in each camp …” (Vol. III, p. 83).
Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire situation as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit in stating that food supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied bombing of German transportation, and in the interests of interned Jews they had protested on March 15th, 1944 against “the barbarous aerial warfare of the Allies” (Inter Arma Caritas, p. 78). By October 2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German Foreign Office of the impending collapse of the German transportation system, declaring that starvation conditions for people throughout Germany were becoming inevitable.
In dealing with this comprehensive, three-volume Report, it is important to stress that the delegates of the International Red Cross found no evidence whatever at the camps in Axis occupied Europe of a deliberate policy to exterminate the Jews. In all its 1,600 pages the Report does not even mention such a thing as a gas chamber. It admits that Jews, like many other wartime nationalities, suffered rigours and privations, but its complete silence on the subject of planned extermination is ample refutation of the Six Million legend. Like the Vatican representatives with whom they worked, the Red Cross found itself unable to indulge in the irresponsible charges of genocide which had become the order of the day. So far as the genuine mortality rate is concerned, the Report points out that most of the Jewish doctors from the camps were being used to combat typhus on the eastern front, so that they were unavailable when the typhus epidemics of 1945 broke out in the camps (Vol. I, p. 204 ff) – Incidentally, it is frequently claimed that mass executions were carried out in gas chambers cunningly disguised as shower facilities. Again the Report makes nonsense of this allegation. “Not only the washing places, but installations for baths, showers and laundry were inspected by the delegates. They had often to take action to have fixtures made less primitive, and to get them repaired or enlarged” (Vol. III, p. 594).http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2735
Ian T. Santiago: Seeker of Truths!
You left the verb off the sentence, LRB. Those computer translations don’t work that well, do they?
You have to put the verb “desu” (to be) at the end for it to make any sense.
Pathetic.
Well, does she teach Japanese?
It’s Nihonkoku or Nipponkoku just like what Wikipedia says. The character for “root” can be pronounced hon or pon.
Duh.
It’s like our word “route” which can rhyme with toot or tout.
Call your daughter up and ask her, but don’t tell me what is patently bullshit.
[You have to put the verb "desu" (to be) at the end for it to make any sense.]
My poor little boy, “desu” is only used when trying to be formal (polite). I wasn’t trying to be polite. You don’t even realize I just called you an idiot.
Are you sure you speak Japanese? It seems you are quite confused.
LRB,
I already provided Asian and Indian news sources showing that the israeli soldiers were inside Lebanon when they were taken captive. You of course rejected those sources and now you claim that the zionists were provoked, nonsense.
By the way, I am not a liberal and neither do I have any swastika tatoos on my person.
Viva La raza Blanco!!!
LRB – as for your attack on former US ally Siniora I hardly consider an Israeli source unbiased.
[Well, does she teach Japanese?]
You seem to need lessons.
[Call your daughter up and ask her, but don't tell me what is patently bullshit.]
I did. She’s the one who called you an idiot. It’s Nihon.
[LRB - as for your attack on former US ally Siniora I hardly consider an Israeli source unbiased.}
They no longer consider American Liberals as being unbiased either.
Seems fair to me.
Bullshit.
Why did the American soldiers call them “nips”?
It was short for Nippon, their word for Japan.
It’s an alternate pronunciation of the same goddamn word.
You are so f*cking obtuse.
It’s amazing how the zionists whine and play uber-victim when they are uber-victimiser!
“Our race is the Master Race. We Jews are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves.” (Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset [Israeli Parlament], quoted by Amnon Kapeliouk, “Begin and the Beasts,” New Statesman, June 25, 1982
V.L.R.B!!!
[I already provided Asian and Indian news sources showing ...]
You’re holocaust denier, and hence either a nazi or worse.
Anything you now say is meaningless. Go goosestep somewhere else. I’m through with you.
[Why did the American soldiers call them "nips"?]
Give it up. You own source shows your wrong.
As far as racist statement did you know the word Americans used for the people of Viet Nam, gook, is Vietnamese for “foreigner”.
We’ve all heard of Nippon Steel haven’t we? It means “Japan Steel.”
Look at the characters for Nippon– they are the same characters for “Japan:” “sun” and “root”??
Nippon Steel Corporation ?????????
In Putunghua Chinese, they’re pronounced “er” (sun) and “ben” (root) btw.
It’s not rocket science, just a little familarity with Japanese language and the Chinese characters they use.
Do you know why jews call all non-jews GOYIM?
First, you ignored my sources because they were not fuax news. Now you you ignore my information becaue I am a NAZIIIIIIII!!! wah, wah, wah! lmosrfao
V.L.R.B!!
There is a well-known vicious circle in family dynamics in which an abused child becomes a child abusing parent. It seems that same dynamic can occur with a people – a victimized people become victimizers.
LRB – you are doing some fine goose-stepping of your own.
By the way – just what is the difference between the genocide in the Book of Joshua to make “living space” for “God’s Chosen People” and any other genocide.
Gook, came from the word for Koreans. Han’ guk is what Koreans call Korea.
I was told this by a Korean.
The soldiers used it as a catch-all pejorative in Vietnam which followed hard on the Korean War.
[By the way - just what is the difference between the genocide in the Book of Joshua to make "living space" for "God's Chosen People" and any other genocide]
One occurred in a book the others occurred in real life.
Thanks for asking.
So you are denying the History of Israel as written in the Old Testament?
[So you are denying the History of Israel as written in the Old Testament?]
Since I can’t read ancient Hebrew I am not an qualified to answer Pentateuch questions.
Better ask a Rabbinical scholar.
Stop feeding that nasty little troll, LRB!
Well, I have not gone to that extreme but I have read various translations as included in the various editions of the Bible. They all recount the story of the genocide carried out when Joshua lead the Israelites into the “Promised Land”. This is the justification they often give today in their claim that “God gave the land to them” – they rely upon their Holy Book.
Good back-pedaling LRB.
You Might Be An Anti-Semite If……You think that Jesus was a good guy who had some important things to say about peace on earth, human rights and respect for your fellow man……You think that the idea of one select group of people, the Jews, being a ‘master race’ who are ‘destined to rule the world with a rod of iron’ is a bunch of nonsense……You think that exterminating over a billion Muslims just because they dared to prevent their centuries-old culture from being conquered by the multi-headed beast of Zionism might not be such a good idea……You reject the popular notion that Islam is a religion of war and instead after some study find it to be a religion of peace that holds Jesus and his mother in the highest esteem and find that the Qur’an possesses some of the most beautiful religious verse ever written……You believe that Judaism’s Holiest Book, the Talmud, has an anti-Gentile and anti-Christian flavor to it, and that all of that stuff contained in it about Judas being a hero, about Mary being a prostitute and about Jesus being a sorcerer who is burning in Hell are just a few of the many reasons why there have been anti-Jewish sentiments throughout history……You think that the world’s most powerful nations, particularly those in the West, are controlled by individuals who are religious fanatics devoted to implementing some farcical, whacked-out conspiracy theory called the ‘Zionist agenda’….You think that the land of Palestine was once inhabited by a group of people called ‘the Palestinians’ who actually lived there for 2,000 years, and further, that this mythical group of people called ‘the Palestinians’ deserve this thing known as ‘dignity’ and that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, and that among these inalienable rights are ‘life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness’……You believe that Islam and Christianity have much in common with each other and that this whole ‘clash of civilizations’ much discussed by Jewish supremacists such as Daniel Pipes, Bernard Lewis and many others is just an attempt to get the peoples of the Christian and Muslim worlds at each other’s throats so that in the end Zionism will reign supreme……You think that the idea of evicting a Christian or Muslim family living in Palestine from their home at gunpoint so that some New York-born Jewish pornographer can move in and take their place is not necessarily a moral thing to do……You think that when Jesus called the Pharisees ‘a brood of vipers’ and ‘children of the devil’ he was trying to warn future generations about the danger of the Jewish agenda, and that when he said ‘you cannot pour new wine into old wineskins’ what he was trying to say was that there was no such thing as ‘Judeo-Christianity’….You think that the leer jet given to Christian Zionist preacher Jerry Falwell by the state of Israel was a payback for all the hard work he has done in deluding American Christians into believing that it was all ‘God’s plan’ that millions of atheist Jews from Russia and eastern Europe occupy Palestine, the very birthplace of Jesus, and that the million-dollar salaries that his cohorts receive—Pat Robertson, John Hagee and Tim LaHaye are all part of that big payoff as well……You think that nuclear weapons being in the hands of religious fundamentalists who possess a messianic mindset and who nurse a fanatical hatred for people of other religions besides their own is a recipe for disaster, and you’re not talking about Iran but rather Israel……You think that the solution to the age old ‘Jewish question’ is for the Jews to quit seeing themselves as ‘the Chosen people’ and to make an honest attempt at treating others with the same kind of respect that they themselves demand from the rest of mankind……You think that the recent uproar in Europe over the cartoon depictions of the Prophet Mohammed done by a Jewish supremacist named Rosen was a deliberate attempt on the part of the Zionist agenda to further enflame tensions between the Christian and Islamic worlds……You believe that men with names such as Wolfowitz, Pearle, Ledeen, Abrams, Feith, and Libby who held high positions of influence in the Bush administration counseled the President into going to war in the Middle East and that they lied about Iraq’s weapons of Mass Destruction and that they did all of this for the furtherance of fighting Israel’s enemies……You believe that the current spy investigation with regards to AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee is in the best interests of America’s national security and that it is not all just an attempt to unfairly smear Jews and taint them with the charge of being more loyal to the Israeli agenda than to what are the best interests of their own country of America……You believe that men such as Lenin, Trotsky, Zinoviev, Berea and the other revolutionaries of Bolshevik Russia who were responsible for murdering tens of millions of people originally had names such as Bronstein, Apfelbaum, Rosenfeld, Sobelsohn and many others of similar stripe and then changed them in an effort to hide the fact that they were Jewish, and you do so after having read about all of it in something called the Jewish Encyclopedia……You believe that the remark recently made by one of Israel’s Military advisors that the Zionist nation could ’strike all the capitals of the West with nuclear weapons’ should be seen as clear and present danger, and particularly after considering that Israel’s nuclear policy has always contained within it something known as ‘The Sampson Option’ which calls for the nuclear annihilation of all Christian and Muslim countries in the event that Israel is about to ‘go under’……You think that all of this business concerning ‘the rapture’ wherein ‘believers’ (meaning self-described Christian Zionists) who support this very un-Christian agenda known as Zionism will be rewarded for siding with the enemies of Christ’s message by being physically taken into heaven is just a little bit over-the edge……You believe the testimony given by a man named Victor Ostrovsky, ex-Israeli intelligence officer working for the Mossad who wrote in his two books ‘By Way of Deception’ and ‘The Other Side of Deception’ that the Israelis were planning to assassinate President George Herbert Walker Bush at the Madrid peace conference in 1991 in order to blame it on Palestinian terrorists was probably true……You believe that those 100 or so Israeli agents who were arrested in the wake of 9/11 in incriminating circumstances such as cheering at the destruction of the Twin Towers knew something about it beforehand and that all the jumping up and down and hollering that was taking place wasn’t all part of an out-of-the-way Bar-Mitzvah celebration……You believe that Americans are not obligated to sacrifice the lives of their children, their paychecks, and their security so that Israel can continue to exist like a cancer in the Middle East……You believe that Israel had something to do with the anthrax attacks in 2001, and that the chief suspect in it, a Zionist Jew who worked for the US Army Weapons lab, did it all for the purpose of blaming the Arabs and further inciting the American people into supporting the war against Israel’s enemies……You believe that the attack on the USS Liberty in 1967 was a deliberate act on the part of the Israelis in order to drag the US into the Six Day War on their side and that after 8 hours of low-level overflights they did not really mistake what was the most advanced intelligence-gathering ship in the world at that time for an Egyptian Horse ferry that was built at the turn of the previous century……You believe that the surviving members of the USS Liberty who testified about what took place on that day in which 34 of their fellow US servicemen were killed and almost 200 wounded did so because they were loyal Americans who had a duty to tell the truth and that whatever their feelings about Jews might have been had little or nothing to do with it……You believe that Israel was responsible for the assassination of President Kennedy as a result of his opposition to her acquiring nuclear weapons and that the assassination of his brother Robert by a ‘Palestinian terrorist’ named Sirhan Sirhan was just another of Israel’s many ‘False Flag Operations’……You believe the press reports that were published in Israel boasting of the involvement of Israeli intelligence with the blackmailing of President Clinton through a sex scandal involving a young Jewess named Monica Lewinsky ……You believe the press reports published in Israel admitting to the existence of an Israeli-engineered biological weapon referred to as ‘the ethnic bomb’ that is designed to target specific genetically-disposed peoples such as those of Arabic descent……You believe that there is an agenda to silence critics of Israel by threatening individuals for speaking out with loss of employment or imprisonment and particularly those who dare to question the mechanics of what happened during the Holocaust……You believe that there is this thing known as the Jewish Defense League that remains to this day on the FBI’s top-ten list of most dangerous terrorist organizations and that several of its members have been convicted recently for their involvement in plotting to blow up the office of US Representative Daryl Issa, a Congressman of Middle Eastern descent ……You believe that a man named Dr Rudolph Kastner, an important official who once worked for the World Zionist Organization conspired with the Nazis to subject the Jews of Europe to a program of persecution and suffering in order to further the agenda of creating a ‘Jewish homeland’ in Palestine……You believe the press reports coming out of Israel which quoted Prime Minister Ariel Sharon as having said to cabinet minister Shimon Peres ‘not to worry about American pressure on Israel,’ since ‘we, the Jewish people control America and the Americans know it’……You believe that the peoples of Iraq and Palestine have the right to defend their homelands against a foreign invasion, including the use of violence and that what they are doing today is no different than what American patriots did some 200 years ago in fighting for their freedom against a foreign, occupying power……You believe that indeed the prophecies found in the Book of Revelations are real and that they are being played out in our own time, but that the description of the Beast who ‘received a fatal wound to the head and yet lived’ refers neither to Saddam Hussein nor Mahmoud Ahmadi-Nejad, but rather to Ariel Sharon and his recent stroke……You believe that the recent declaration by the Catholic Church that ‘Judas did nothing wrong in betraying Jesus, and that mankind owes him a great debt for having fulfilled God’s prophecy’ is in fact an attempt on the part of a Zionist-occupied Vatican to appease the Jewish agenda……You thought that the ‘Passion of the Christ’ was worth an artistic award of some type but refused to see ‘The Last Temptation of Christ’ out of principle……You think that the insistence on the part of Rabbi David Feldman from the group ‘Jews Against Anti-Semitism’ that Mel Gibson be arrested and tried as a terrorist under the provisions of the Patriot Act for having made the movie ‘The Passion of the Christ’ would be a violation of his right to free speech ……You think that the business of calling Muslims and others from the Middle East ‘rag-heads, sand niggers and hajjis’ is racist in its nature……You believe that Israeli Intelligence was involved with the Abu Ghraib prison torture scandal after seeing an AP photo of a Mossad officer at the facility sporting a Star of David Tattoo on his left shoulder……You do not believe that the invasion and occupation of Iraq was all about finding Weapons of Mass Destruction and you are confident that you are correct when 3 years later none have been found……You believe that Israel intends to take over all the land between the Nile and the Euphrates rivers after reading some comments from the Founding Fathers of Zionism wherein they speak of this thing called ‘Greater Israel’ that just happens to lie between the Nile and the Euphrates rivers……You believe that the Jews should be held to the same standards as every other human being without being given any preferential treatment that might exonerate or in other ways cover up what has been a dark history on their part of brutality and duplicity against other peoples, and that indeed the whole idea of there being a ‘chosen race’ of people is as stupid as was the flat-earth theory that in previous centuries impeded so much of mankind’s development …Yes, indeed you might be an anti-Semite if you believe just one of these forbidden items……But then again, maybe you’re not.’You Might Be An Anti-Semite If…’ is an excerpt of the most recent piece by author Mark Glenn entitled ‘Old Wineskins’ which can be found at http://www.crescentandcross.com. The author can be reached at mrkglenn@yahoo.com
V.L.R.B!!!
BTW, LRB, I googled this just to find a source that you might actually believe, even though I know damn well already that I’m right:
From a Japanese forum–
“The people of Japan actually have two names for their land. They call it either Nihon or Nippon. The “original” form was Nippon, which was derived from old Chinese words meaning – you guessed it – “Land of the Rising Sun”.
Since the name was adopted the Japanese language has had a sound shift, tentatively placed around the 7th century. Under that sound shift, “Nippon” became “Nihon”.
Both forms are still used. “Nippon” is considered conservative, and is the form generally used by those close to the Emperor and in military circles. “Nihon” is considered slightly less formal, so which one uses is influenced at least in part by the complexities of Japanese society. The Japanese language however is always called Nihongo.
As djg has explained, the word Japan comes to us via a borrowing back into Chinese and thence into Malay, whence it was picked up by Europeans. The first English citation dates to 1577, when it was spelled “Giapan”.
All Japanese would understand “Japan”, and would also understand “Riben” – which is the modern Standard Chinese for “Land of the Rising Sun”.
But the word they actually use among themselves is either Nippon or Nihon.
http://www.qi.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=3890&start=0&sid=85f6b605ac231ce05d59f0acbfc26551
From “Gates to Japan”–
“Nippon” or “Nihon”?These two words meaning “Japan” have both been in use for at least five hundred years. The use of “Nippon” has generally been more common than the softer-sounding “Nihon,” but the decision on which to adopt officially has yet to be made. In international sporting events, however, “Nippon” is used almost exclusively, perhaps because of its more authoritative-sounding ring and more eye-catching design when alphabetized. Besides “Nippon” and “Nihon,” the name “Jippon” was also once used. This may have been the forerunner of the English word “Japan” and its equivalents in other languages.http://d-training.aots.or.jp/GTJ/html/n.html
From “Ask the Experts”
The English word “Japan” is an exonym. The Japanese names for Japan are Nippon and Nihon. They are both written in Japanese using the characters ??. (It is, however, possible to disambiguate the pronunciation of the characters using furigana.) The Japanese name Nippon is used for most official purposes, including , postage stamps, and international sporting events. Nihon is a more casual term and the most frequently used in contemporary speech.
http://experts.about.com/e/n/na/Names_of_Japan.htm
*****
Looks like both you and “your daughter in Tokyo” (hehe) are full of SHIT.
[This is the justification they often give today in their claim that "God gave the land to them" - they rely upon their Holy Book.]
So what? Religion is fucked. What else is new?
[Nihon is a more casual term and the most frequently used in contemporary speech.]
Yes. That’s what I’ve been saying. The people of Japan call their country Nihon – not Nippon.
Why is that so hard for you to understand?
On that we agree LRB – unfortunately Israeli policy is based upon that religion. They are a theocracy.
LRB,
Are you one of these pro-zionist “megaphones”?
http://giyus.org/
V.L.R.B!!!
[On that we agree LRB - unfortunately Israeli policy is based upon that religion. They are a theocracy]
Well that settle is. Lets you and me go over there and set them all straight. *spits*
The entire region is governed by “books” written long ago. The trouble this shit keeps spilling out to other parts of the world. Both the Muslims and Israelis claim the same 0.25 sq mi is their Holiest of Holy land. And are willing to kill everybody on the planet for it.
What if we just nuke the whole area and start over?
Interesting idea. Mine is a bit different. I just take a very slightly different reading of all three “books” and consider the land as belonging to the “followers of the God of Abraham.” Since Arab Christians pray to Allah (simply the Arabic word for God) then I figure all three are presumable followers of the same God. Therefore all three religions should recognize their commong roots and look at the land as “theirs”. I would have zero claim to the land since I am not of any of the three religions – but I don’t really want it anyway.
Classic conservative tactic–argue for a position until it is proven wrong, then claim you never said it.
Unfortunately for you, LRB, words still have meaning. Your “ministry of truth” hasn’t wholly perverted language yet.
Here’s what you said:
1. “It’s Nihon, not Nippon.
But that doesn’t make any difference to you. You just call ‘em Japs, right?”
From the source: Both forms are still used.
2. “Actually, they don’t [use both]. It’s Nihon.
Nice backpedaling though.”
From a source: The use of “Nippon” has generally been more common than the softer-sounding “Nihon”
3. “Officially it’s Nihon.
Anything else?
Hint: My daughter teaches in Tokyo.”
From a source–The Japanese name Nippon is used for most official purposes, including , postage stamps, and international sporting events.
*****
Now you try to argue which one is more COMMON.
The one thing that you conservatives have in common is that you never, ever admit that you are wrong.
58,000 dead Americans in Vietnam, and it was the liberals.
Huge budget deficits due to runaway spending and tax cuts for the rich, and it’s those tax-and-spend liberals.
You can’t even admit you’re wrong about a simple point of fact when it’s been proven that you’re wrong.
I’ve stopped loathing you.
Now I just feel sorry for you.
And that poor son-of-a bitch you’re married to. Jeez what a living hell for him . . .
Good points capn. He also has not denied that the Stern Gang and its successors are terrorist organizations. And of course, he excuses all the various things I linked above by “they happened long ago” but relies on older history (Christian persecution of European Jews) as justification for Israeli persecution of Palestinians.
He is a great practitioner of bob and weave – and projection.
Ben, as I asked before, rhetorically: Israeli Government currently contains Arabs who were elected to their postions.There are Arab settlements within Israel who seem to accept Jewish rule quite peacefully.Can you think of an Arab or Moslem country where ANY Jew would be able to even work for the government, let alone run and be elected to public office?
Ian:I once talked to an American serviceman who assisted in liberating a Nazi concentration camp, you are truly warped in your historical views.Always validate suspicion with motive. Why on Earth would Europe wish upon itself the shame of the holocaust? It was largely non-jews who liberated the camps and publicized what they found, afterwards. I believe it was Eisenhower, a German, who ordered some Germans to tour the camps as a form of punishment. The US, of course, was very slow to enter the war. Why on Earth would the United States want to admit that we could have saved millions of lives by going to war sooner? There is no logic to your conspiracy. Your conspiracy theory works against the best interests of those you say concocted the “conspiracy.”
BenThe Catholic Church was also persecuted by Hitler.The Vatican was surrounded by Mussolini’s troops and later by Nazi’s. Even so, the Pope at that time managed to save thousands of Jews, in his own way, without being detected. Several priests were also burned in the ovens.I agree that the church has not always been so noblel, but that is truly ancient history.
[From a source--The Japanese name Nippon is used for most official purposes, including , postage stamps, and international sporting events. ]
The Japanese people call it Nihon. But they don’t know as much as you.
Paul – prior to the siezure of land by the terrorist Stern Gang there were numerous Arab states where Jews lived peacefully. In fact, it was often in Muslim countries that Jews found refuge during Christian pogroms against them. Subsequent to the siezure by Stern Gang you are correct – they have become unwelcome in the Arav world.
And you are correct, there are a few token Arabs in the Israeli government. That does not change the fact that the vast majority of Palestinians living under sraeli rule are denied any kind of human rights by their rulers.
Sadly, a great opportunity was missed in 1967. Paelstinians had been denied rights by their Egyptian and Jordanian rulers prior to 1967. Had Israel embarked on a program of recognition of rights for the Palestiaian population (many of whom had their land stolen in the 40s by terrorists of the Stern gang) they could have prevented a lot of this.
The Palestinian population is more “western” than “mid-eastern” in culture for a number of reasons. A large fraction is Christian; the Muslims are anything but fundamentalist. I have known several who seem to find loopholes in the Koran allowing them to dring wine etc. In many ways they are like many Christians I know – they like the good life and materialism.
I believe that if that had happened much of what we are seeing today would never have happened. Both Palestine and Lebanon look more toward the Mediterranean than eastward.
Paul – I honestly do not believe that the massive attacks against Lebanese has made Israel more secure. Instead, I think they are less secure today than they were two months ago. They now have Siniora and Hariri as enemies; that was not the case before. Had Israel attacked Hizbollah and not the rest of Lebanon it might have worked. Their policy of collective punishment of the Lebanese people has back-fired IMO.
I also do not believe that the US invasion of Iraq has made us more secure. Rather, it has made us LESS secure.
I bow to your knowledge this issue Ben.
It is also worth noting that at the outset of the recent events in Lebanon, most of the arab world sided with Israel and condemned Hezbollah. This was unprecedented. But Israel overplayed its move and now sentiments against Israel in that region have hardened further.
Going back a bit – when Israel first invaded Lebanon many Lebanese welcomed them. The reason: the refugees predominately Sunni) in their midst had been causing a great deal of trouble using Lebanese territory as a staging area trying to reclaimed their stolen land. Lebanese welcomed getting rid of the refugees. Unfortunately Isreal then proceeded to occupy for many years and to subjugate the Shiite population (which had previously welcomed tham). Thus Hizbollah was born.
By the way – anyone remember the “Cedar Revolution” and the pro-western tack Lebanon took? Part of the impetus for that were the accusations that Syria was behind the assasination of Hariri. Now, with the younger Hariri accusing Israel of “living off the blood of Lebanese” I wonder if the suspects in the assasination are changing?
It’s amazing how the zionists whine and play uber-victim when they are uber-victimiser!
“Our race is the Master Race. We Jews are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves.” (Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset [Israeli Parlament], quoted by Amnon Kapeliouk, “Begin and the Beasts,” New Statesman, June 25, 1982
V.L.R.B!!!
GAHAHAHA!!!!…and the Pot Calling the Kettle Black Award goes to…
Ian Santiago
Just replace the words “zionists” and “Jews” and replace them with “whites” and you have the hallmarks of a classic rant from every neo-Nazi white supremacist KKK member that ever walked the earth. Let’s not forget how Ian considers “race-mixing” a form of beastiality just as this article dictates “inferior races” as “beasts, cattle” etc.
The timers on the bombs were too sophisticated for Arabs, as Hariri’s motorcade passed, people’s TV sets had their signals disrupted from jammers, so that was the work of the Mossad. The plan was to blame Syria and remove Syrian troops to clear the way for Israel to invade.
Now that Israel got their asses kicked, the plan has back-fired.
Ben,I agree with your take on Lebanon’s Arab population. This was a dilema for Israel, but I don’t feel qualified to arm chair, Monday Morning quarterback at this point.It is a tragedy, since there seemed real room to play the Shiite, Suni split to the advantage of Israel here.Lebanon, for whatever reason, did not comply with the UN Resolution to disarm Hizbollah.Lebanon should have gone to the UN or others for help with that job, but of course, Hizbollah and or Syria would have quickly assasinated anyone who made that request.—-I do have one observation about Moslem culture.I was once told, by an investment company wholesaler pushing gold minning mutual funds, that the price of gold followed the price of oil — not only because of the inflation, commodity market similarities of “raw materials,” or “Natural Resources,” but also, get this: Because Moslems are against charging or receiving interest! (”Never a borrower nor a lender be” They, therefore, invested in gold whenever oil prices went up, which meant that gold rose quicker than oil, in percentage terms. This was true 20 years ago when I first heard it, it is still true now more times than not, as far as direction of market moves is concerned.)Is this theologically true? Is it against Sharia law or the Quran to charge or accept interest payments on money?If Moslems don’t accept basic rules of Western finance, can we ever hope for modernization in the Moslem world?I am hopeful that some exceptions exist, if there really is such a Moslem prohibition.Any experts on the subject in here?
LRB–
“The Japanese people call it Nihon. But they don’t know as much as you.”
I don’t know anything about the Nipponkoku jin except what they told me when I f*cking lived there for two years.
Domo arigato gozaimasu.
Paul–
What you heard is true. Moslems like Christians for many centuries do not believe in taking interest on money — usuary.
The New Testament clearly forbids taking interest on money. That’s why the Jews became money-lenders. See “The Merchant of Venice”
We modern Christians have managed to “forget” about the strictures against usuary. Kinda like divorce. But GAYS! They’re going straight to hell!
Anyway, Moslems CAN earn interest, but they have to engage in a bit of creative accounting–instead of “interest,” they earn “rent.” Or they become “shareholders” of a bank instead of taking out an account and “interest” becomes “dividends”.
Where there’s a will, there’s a way, but you’re right, it does put some impediments in the way of modern finance.