I’m glad that the Greater Wichita Convention and Visitors Bureau had a full-page ad in USA Today last week, and that it contrasted our Wild West heritage with modern-day Wichita. But I wish it would have used a main photograph other than that of Carry Nation. Maybe it’s just me, but seeing Nation and her ax reminded me of evolution opponents, abortion protesters, Fred Phelps and other religious activists. That’s not a reminder of our state that is likely to draw many tourists.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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50 Comments
How about John Brown instead??? lolPhil, you do a disservice to other religious activists by lumping Phelps with anyone but Phelps.The truth is, Religion has always played a huge role in American politics, and those who are embarrased by that probably need to work on their own self-esteem.Through out my life in Wichita, I have heard people who didnt want to be associated with the Wizard of Oz, and we missed a huge opportunity for such a theme park.We are what we are.Kansas was FOUNDED by Free-Soil Republican anti-slavery radicals.They were devout Christians.Take a look at the mural of John Brown on the State House wall, carrying his rifle and his Bible.”Bleeding Kansas” was a radical state, long before the Civil War!—Even so, I also think Carry Nation was not the best choice. Perhaps her along with some of the other famous figures would have been better. Put in perspective, however, the number of people killed by alcohol poisoning or by gunfights after getting drunk, was very high in Nations day. You can understand her motivation without supporting her methods.Ok, I like a beer or a bourbon every now and then, but why is anyone embarrased by history?We are what we are.If Wichita could just get over its inferiority complex, we would be much better off.If we arent different than other places, why bother getting to know Kansas at all?
“Maybe it’s just me, but seeing Nation and her ax reminded me of evolution opponents, abortion protesters, Fred Phelps and other religious activists.”
Uhh, Phil, I grew up in Wichita, Kansas. That is Kansas – in other words, a backwards state.
Sasnak?
Hey, I like ‘ole Carry. She was a woman who was obviously very strong and wasn’t scared to voice her opinions or act on them. I doubt she was intimidated by anyone. Sounds like my kinda’ girl!! I say Kansas should be proud of her and her shenanigans that made her famous!
My idea of Kansans always came from Old Westerns. So I always kept my big-city mouth shut about football or any college teams be they K-State, KU, or the Shockers. Tehy take their foozeball VERY seriously indeed.
That pic is a spot on take on the narrow minded self righteuous provincialism that IS Kansas. Even MORE illustrative is that it is in black and white! Just like the Kansas that Dorothy escaped!
That pic is a spot on take on the narrow minded self righteuous provincialism that IS Kansas. Even MORE illustrative is that it is in black and white! Just like the Kansas that Dorothy escaped!
I just recently played Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon to that movie. Very interesting indeed.
Sorry, did we want tourists? Why was that, again?
She reminds me of my ex-wife!!Scary!!
Kansas is not set up for tourists. There are not enough attractions here to lure people from anywhere in the country. And you did miss a golden opportunity for a Wizard of Oz theme park. Speaking as a non-native Kansan, this state will always be known as the drive-thru to get to Colorado.
I hate the Wizard of Oz.
The japanese love Kansas and the guy who owns Kansas copter loves them. The Japanese come here even in the winter months to have him fly them around looking for tornadoes. He does tell them it is not at all likely they will see any. But still they come.
I don’t know. The older I get and the more people whose lives I see ruined by booze (childhood friend died of alcoholism recently), the more I agree with her ideas. Not her methods, although it might be fun to take an ax to a saloon.
Wyatt Earp Wasn’t he a pimp and saloon owner while he was a lawman? Not sure this is the image we want to convey.
Why is everyone badmouthing Carry Nation’s axe chopping methods? It is no different than what is happening right now in Meade, Kansas over some stupid flag.
If the Japanese are coming here only to see tornadoes – then they must have way too much money or time on their hands. If we were smart, the city, county or state would build on this tourist attraction and get a Tornado Theme Park in the works.
Damn RD, you’re a real iconoclast!I bet you couldn’t sit through The Sound Of Music either.
Embarrasing admission:I agree with Paul F Rosell.(GASP, choke choke)I have always admired John Brown.Much better choice.And there is already tourist information about JB, and eastern Kansas.
Carry Nation is a much better figure than slapping Jan Beemer’s ugly mug on USA today. If Wichita is so opposed to Carry Nation then how come I still can’t buy liquor on a Sunday?
Doug, that’s an easy one.
Because you don’t live as close to Oklahoma and Missourri as I do.That’s why!! HA
Actually, the Wizard of Oz was actually social commentary on the Industrial Revolution and the political divisions of that time in history.A clash between industrial and agricultural and other interests.(I think the gargoyle looking bat men were liberals, the Wicked Witch was Hillary, and the good Witch was Ann Coulter, but I am sure this thread will disagree, lol).
“Through out my life in Wichita, I have heard people who didnt want to be associated with the Wizard of Oz, and we missed a huge opportunity for such a theme park.”
My late wife really tried to get the powers that be in Kansas interested in a Wizard of Oz Theme Park in the 1970’s. She would really appreciate your sentiments.
Pointed out because I truly doubt you and I agree on much of anything else on these boards.
Let me venture a guess Paul.YOU ARE ACTUALLY THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN??HA-GOTCHA’
Ann Coulter = witch?I could agree with that much.
I would actually be more inclined to lump all of the talking heads together as flying monkies, liberal or conservative. The fill up a lot of airspace mostly flying around in circles and making loud annoying noises.
I got an idea to sell Kansas.
Mary Ann.
YOU KNOW, Mary Ann from Gilligans Island?
Any boomer guys that weren’t in love with her? I there anyone on the planet that does not know that character? She is a WAY more recognized “Kansan” than Carry Nation or Dorothy.
Bonus points if you can name the Kansas town Mary Ann came from.
Dawn Wells who played that character is a super sweet lady. She might be a little old for the gingham dress and pigtails though.
Our modern day Carry Nation is obvious…Jan Beemer and her ban of holier than thou extremists who want to tell adults what they can read, purchase, and view.
Jan Beemer is planning on taking her holy crusade to Topeka. She has already proven herself adept at wasting taxpayer money and messing with peoples’s lives. Yep.. a born politician.
And the Mary Ann character was from Winfield, Kansas. As I read someplace, without her Kansas common sense, they all would have perished.
Mary Ann was from Horner’s Corners, KS.
(I confess to cheating on that one.)
Cool, thanks RD for the correction. Second mistake today. Fortunately it is getting late, so maybe I won’t make too many more.
Tracy,
I loved the Sound of Music. A small bit of personal trivia: I was fairly young when I first saw it in the theater and turned to ask my dad if the young Maria was a prostitute. (Should’ve been postulant.) There was a slight reaction from the nuns sitting in the row ahead of me.
The reason I hate the Wizard of Oz is because it’s shown ad nauseum. I’m a HUGE fan of musicals.
Got this from Internet Movie DataBase http://imdb.com
Judy Garland’s portrayal of Dorothy was the main inspiration for the character of Mary Ann on “Gilligan’s Island” (1964).
RD is correct and even better informed than me!Mary Ann was from Horners Corners.
I’ll go ya one better.
Why not take advantage of the fact that Superman was from Kansas? Imagine that ad!
Superman lands next to Mary Ann greets her and says.
“When I’m not saving the world, I like to come home to Kansas…..to escape it.”
Comparing the good witch “Glenda” to Ann Coulter? You can’t get anymore more off base that that! Ann Coulter and the Wicked Witch of the West even wear the same hairstyle and have the same smirky smile, for gosh sake!
JRI finally agree with YOU on something, Mary Ann was way way way hotter than Ginger.It was that “girl next door” charm.Tracy:PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!(wait, you don’t pay much attention to me anyway!) lol
JR,
It’s the black and white that always bothered me. In fact, when I’m out of state and mention I’m from Kansas (only when asked), I add that we don’t live in a black and white world. People generally laugh and nothing else is said. It puts an end to the Toto jokes, thank goodness!
Paul,
Can you name another place where there’s a John Brown mural? Like, in Wichita?
RDI dont know where else John Stuart Curry was asked to paint, in Kansas, other than within the Capital Building.How many pictures of Carry Nation do we have floating around?
Hey, I have another idea? How about Hyde and Mentholatum? I bet we could get a boatload of those New Yorkers in to see the original building of the man that invented that stuff! I am only half kidding here, Wichita has produced more than its share of business giants. It would not hurt to publish some of that history:http://members.cox.net/wichitahpa/Mentholatum%20Building.html
Paul,
It’s been a long, long time, but I seem to remember a mural of John Brown in what was once the City Library and eventually the Omnisphere. I don’t remember seeing it in the latter after remodeling, but I was only there once.
Does anybody else remember that mural?
How about early ’20s Hollywood actress, Louise Brooks, a thoroughly interesting character.
Here is pic of the mural.Somehow, I can’t imagine Fred Phelps doing anything quite like this.
http://www.cs.cornell.edu/nystrom/images/Antietam/pages/page_17.html
Brown was convinced that there would be an uprising, if only someone would light the match and start the fire going.Brown was a little off in the head, but at least his cause was just and he sacrificed his own life for it.I think Phelps would, more likely, carry signs questioning the sexual orientation of the slave owners, or picket the funerals of both Blue and Gray — until someone hanged HIM!—-By the way, I think the way to combat Phelps is to use the Bible against him.”Thou Shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor” is a commandment.You don’t see Phelps picketing shoplifters, gang bangers or any body else as they come out of Sedgwick County jail. There is a Biblical command against murder and theft isn’t there? At least there is evidence that these people did something wrong, even if not yet convicted.Even if Phelps has a point about homosexuality, where does Phelps get off with his “Fag Dole” signs in 1996 or his funeral pickets today?That is false witness against his neighbor! Just because you believe something is sinful, that does not give you the right to accuse everyone with that sin!”Thou shalt not use the name of the Lord thy God in Vain.” Another Commandment.This does not just mean the G-Damn word.It also means mis-using religion! Has any other ordained Pastor, outside of the Phelps clan, ever found justification for the actions of the Westborough Baptist Church?Phelps would not have the guts to fight a real battle, in my humble opinion.I hope I am right!(Fred, if you are reading this, I dont think we will ever paint a mural of you with a “God Hates Fags” sign anywhere!Somebody who is better than me with photoshop could probably have fun sticking Freds face on top of Browns and then changing the flags to picket signs, but that would probably feed Freds ego too much.
http://www.cs.cornell.edu/nystrom/images/Antietam/pages/page_17.html
“Brown was a little off in the head, but at least his cause was just and he sacrificed his own life for it.”
Actually, this is a widely circulated revision of history, probably to make sure that he is ridiculed enough so that no one is tempted to effect real social change.
According to “Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Text Got Wrong,” John Brown was never considered crazy by anyone who talked to him, including his jailor who ended up sympathizing with his cause.
His writings and speeches are a lot more clear and cogent than, say, George W. Bush’s.
James Loewen points out in this book that history texts try to show that the course of history runs smoothly from primitive to modern, from unenlightened to enlightened, from feudalism to democracy.
In fact, nothing could be further from the truth. John Brown, the hero, is cast as demented, while Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee, the traitors to the American Republic, stand as champions of “state’s rights,” or some such BS.
In fact it was all about slavery from day one, as the John Brown episode shows . . .
Here’s the response to Paul’s question from another thread, “Clinton at 60.”
Paul–”I honestly want to know: What did Clinton do, in your opinion, that could be considered more of an economic driver than the demographics of the boomers combined with the Reagan tax cuts?”
Answer: He raised taxes on the rich. By making people pay their fair share and showing fiscal responsiblity, the equity markets responded positively.
Investors know that when gov’t borrows less, it frees money up and drives down interest rates.
That’s exactly what happened, spurring one of the greatest expansions in the economy and equity markets we’ve ever seen.
The simple fact stubbornly remains and you can’t account for it.
Reagan-Bush cut taxes for the rich and the national debt MORE THAN DOUBLED.
Read it again, Paul, Reagan-Bush MORE THAN DOUBLED the national debt.
According to you, all that tax cutting should have resulted in so much stimulation and growth that the national debt practically disappeared.
You can quibble with the estimated figures all you want. Lowering taxes didn’t work then to reduce debt. In fact, it DOUBLED IT.
It’s not working now.
And point of clarification to all the reich-wingers who are going to say, “it’s only national debt as a percentage of GDP that matters,” the doubling I’m talking about IS the national debt expressed as a percentage of GDP.
It went from 32 percent of GDP in Carter’s last year to 67 percent of GDP after 12 years of tax cuts under Reagan-Bush.
CapnAmerica! It isn’t the tax cut! It’s the spending problem. Bush/Reagan Congress spent like crazy, especially military spending, bailing out Savings and Loans, Car companies and other countries.
The Republican Congress under Clinton just reduce spending. They need to do that again, but unfortunantly the good that the Republican Revolution did for our economy and debt is now over. Washington D.C. has changed them and they just became as bad as Democrats when it comes to pork and spending.
I garruntee you Capn, that a Democratic controlled Congress will make it much worse. You’ll see spending like you never seen before.
DING DING DING DING
Woo HOO! That was a major bell ringer, Joe!
Under Clinton-Gore, the budgets were reduced by an average of 9 percent a year.
He didn’t have to sign them did he?
In fact, I remember him refusing to sign a spending bill and shutting the gov’t down briefly.
“A Democratic Congress would make spending much worse.”
Based on what?
Reagan’s proposed budgets were virtually identical to what he signed.
Yep! CaptnAmerica! With the help of the Republican Congress.
Thank you! Next!
Capn, lets try to keep the threads seperate ok?I will continue your discussion on the Welfare/Clinton threat shortly, but suffice it to say, not a single leading economist, anywhere, thinks Clintons tax increase had much of anything to do with the economy under Clinton. It may have had something to do with the recession Clinton handed Bush II. By the way, the value of the dollar is cut in half every 14 years, at 5% inflation.— Meaning the value of everything “doubles” in dollar figures if the value stays constant.Again, lets try to keep the posts where they belong. I am guilty too but it gets too confusing otherwise.
CapnOn the slavery issue, and on calling John Brown, “a little off in the head.”I still admire Brown.Lets face it, however, Brown’s military effort failed.Brown overestimated the support his effort would receive.Actually, the rest of the country was not ready for battle at the time of Harpers Ferry, but Kansas had been drenched in blood from the border wars prior to the Kansas/Nebraska act.I dont think Brown was clinically crazy, I think he was a bit of a zealot who was obviously before his time.We share an admiration for the man.Let us not forget, however, that John Brown lead an attack on innocent military men who probably had nothing to do with slavery.State Rights, also known as the 10th Amendment, are a valid concern.One of the tragic casualties of the Civil War is the decline of respect for state sovereignty.However, the slaveholders in the South were first to trample on the 10th Amendment with the Fugitive Slave Act.
Actually, I claim to be a little more of a “Maryann” buff-since I represented her on the reality tv version of Gilligan’s Island, and she IS from WINFIELD KS, I on the other hand grew up in Edwardsville ks… anyway, just HAD to add my 2 cents!
This is gay REally gay REally Really gay! Get a life! Pussies. I mean big pussies! Bitches! F your coaches!\