As we argue in our editorial on today’s Opinion page that if America is going to solve its immigration mess, boosting border enforcement isn’t enough. The spigot also needs to be turned off at the source — U.S. jobs.
On that front, it was good to see U.S. Attorney Eric Melgren bring charges against a Wichita business for allegedly hiring illegal aliens from Mexico — and not just knowingly hiring them, but helping them get fake identification.
In the absence of meaningful immigration reform, it’s good to see the feds cracking down on employers. That’s a crucial piece of the solution.
But businesses also need a better, foolproof way of instantly verifying employee identity and legal status, or they can simply continue to plead ignorance.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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23 Comments
That would be the right thing to do, for a change. The onus should be on the employer, and government should find a better way for business to confirm an applicants identity. The current way is too ripe for abuse.
I was with you on this reform issue until I visited a grower of trees. These trees need to be sheared once a year and it takes from July to the next January to do so. The trees were being sheared by immigrants. I asked if they were all legal. The grower said that as far as he knew, they were because they showed proper paperwork. He said that he had suspicions that any of them were actually legal but that it was “against their rights if I ask them if they’re papers are real”. If they are real, he gets into trouble for asking. If they aren’t real, he gets into trouble for not asking. He said, the government could fix all this by allowing them to come into the US for work visas. That’s all they really want to do is to work. They don’t want to be citizens. Charge them a fee at the border and hand them temporary papers to work. Make them pay for their childrens education. Make them pay taxes.
I agree! I’m glad somebody around here is proactive in the illegal immigration problem.
I somewhat agree with you Boone/Joe.
I agree that we should charge them to work here but i think we need to regulate the numbers…
Any of you who have been to any of the southern states and looked at the number of illegals standing out infront of a Home Depot or Lowes looking for work can attest to at times, there may be too many here in some places, that needs to be regulated…
Boone - I’d go more with charging the employers rather than the workers directly. For one thing there is the issue of location: if you charge them at the border how do you get that money to Garden City (for example). For another thing - it is the employer who is low-balling the wages - let them pay the “impact fees”
I would also leave it up to the LOCAL government… Lets say, Garden City, needs more meat packing employees. The city can say, yes, we need more workers, there arent any here or in the surrounding areas, so the city will allow a certain number of illegals to come to the city to work for that company.
That company would than be charged with assimilating them into the city (i.e. teaching them English, American culture, etc…) and paying them reasonably so that they may actively return money to the city in the form of sales and property taxes…
Interesting twist Tony. Problem I have is that I’m not sure I want the City (or county or whatever) intertangled in employment issues. I’d rather just make sure the businesses are properly withholding taxes etc - and paying sufficiently decently to pay the rent etc.
Visas for professionals dry up, leaving jobs in limbo…
Link: http://seattle.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2006/08/14/story12.html?b=1155528000^1329448&hbx=e_abd
I think these types of jobs also need to be looked at… Intelligent people should be allowed to come here, train and work…
But first make REAL sure their is a bona fide shortage. I am not convinced that there is.
It makes a lot more sense to put a system into place so that a business can verify the identification papers that an applicant has supplied. Then if a business does not use the verification system they should be penalized.
How many small businesses do the Democrats want to put out of business by penalizing them when there is no verification system in place? These anti business Democrats need to stop and think about the very people they say they protect.
There were several Democrats in the paper a few days ago bragging about how they tried to penalize employers but the Republicans stopped them. What they did not tell you is they were supporting in state tuition for illegal’s and drivers licenses for illegals. Talk about being dishonest to the people.
How many of you Democrats have told your employers that you want then penalized for hiring illegal’s when there is no system out there for them to verify the information? Have you told your employer that they could have their business shut down? Have you told your fellow employees that they might come to work one day and find the business closed because their fellow worker (Democrat legislator) voted to penalize their business for hiring illegal’s but did not put a system in place for them to verify the information?
I doubt any of those Democrat legislators did. They talk the talk but do not walk the walk.
How many of you Democrats have told your employers that you want then penalized for hiring illegal’s when there is no system out there for them to verify the information? Have you told your employer that they could have their business shut down? Have you told your fellow employees that they might come to work one day and find the business closed because their fellow worker
Blah blah blah Dem’s hate biz. If you make biz {insert policy} you will be thrown in the streets.
It makes you think that we live under a monarchy to read this stuff.We need to control immigration. Our elected leaders need to come up with a workable policy or they can find out what the job market is like for themselves.
It appears everyone agrees the system is broken. No one wants to wade into this mess because there is too much unknown. Democrats in Topeka have focused only on punitive measures toward businesses. I could go that direction if government were a partner in the pain, after all, government refuses to 1)protect our borders, 2)give employers tools to verify I.D. (for goodness sake, at least create a more secure social security card), 3)recognize that saving 15% on produce and spending 40% more to teach english and provide emergency medical care is a net increase to taxpayers.
Our elected respresentatives are much more interested in politicizing the issue rather than finding a solution. Businesses need to play their part, but most in our government (except the US attorney’s office) doesn’t seem to mind handing over principles of sovereignty to 20 million people who love Mexico more than America.
Morg, STS,I hate to tell you this, but there is a system in place that will instantly verify a new hires information. It is simple, quick and easy to use and requires nothing more than an account, pin and internet service. Saying there is no system in place is a flat out lie that employeers and politicians are using to provide lip service to the scam they are running on each and every one of us.Of course you will not believe me, so simply visit Social Security Online. Click under the employeers link and go to Suite Link. It will explain the services including SSN verification. The thing that gripes me the most about the whole argument is the absolute uniformity in which even small business owners stick to the story. The fact of the matter is, they all know it is there but take comfort in the knowledge that the general public does not.
The system for businesses to check is located here.http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/services/SAVE.htm
It is called the SAVE program. Thet can register and check SS validity on the spot. Some cities are now REQUIRING all businesses to use it.
The trouble is even now when an employer sends in their SS money from an employees paycheck they will get a notice of NO MATCH but do nothing about it. The just keep sending it in and it goes into a “Suspense” file. They need to be forced to take an action when they get a notice of no match, such as firing or notifying the ICE.
Recently a lady checked her SS# and it was in use by 200 other people around the country….heh
When the business actively tries to evade the system and ignore things its difficult to catch.
More and more states are actively entering the illegal alien control due to Fed. non action. They are using issues that are under control of the State to thwart this activity. Gov. Bill Owen of Colorado recently called a special session solely to pass a strong measure on this to make the state extremely unfriendly. No Medicare, no Drivers License, no in state tuition- which is against the law anyway according to the 1996 Immigration act, unless you give it to ALL out of staters. Some states have put in measures that tend ot get business attention…outright seizure of the business.
Its not usually a labor issue and more of a pay issue. They say they cant get people to do the job. They just dont finish that sentence…. they cant find anyone AT THAT WAGE to do it. If they start paying 20 dollars per hour they may see more applicants. That is how the market works. They are just trying to game the market by bringing in indentured slave labor. When they get to high paid they will be out and the next new group will be imported.
Then of course you have to political whores that want voters, preferrable uneducated ones that will vote if you start some “gimmee” gubment program.
You also have the religious twits like Brownback that wants to be compassionate with what jobs that may be available.
Once a pol starts either hearing or using the phrase:”..but its for the children…”
Try to tune them out, you now know you are being scammed or lied to because it means the program or idea cant fly on its own and is likely a bad idea.
Should we also hold the governor and legislature for giving illegal in-state tuition in violation of federal law?
Nick,The SSA system only verifies that the name, social security number, date of birth and gender match what the employee gave you. Someone who bought their social security number and work permit documents can slip through the system easily as long as the information on the documents matches. My former employer verified hundreds of social security numbers and although they were sure that many of them were not legal, they were powerless to do anything. As someone said earlier, the company can’t risk violating the employee’s rights by turning them in but will get in trouble if it is found they hired an illegal. Can you say “Catch-22?”
I wonder why we are asking employers to perform a law enforcement function.
Random,There are two entirely different issues being used as an excuse not to verify someone’s SSN through the administration. Verification of a new hire’s provided information or even an entire database in no way violates anyone’s rights. If someone chooses to provide falsified documents that have been manufactured, the employeer is off the hook, and the crime lies with the applicant. If the employeer refuses to even check and ignores the provided information without verification it is on the employeer. There is no conflict or risk to anyone’s rights. That is an excuse to further criminal intent on the part of the employeer. There is no catch 22 but it sounds good.
Changing the employemnt ID process is a very legitimate part of this whole debate. If there is a database that can verify ID, we should make it public policy that employers use it and give them some sort of defense if they do. But that one piece should be a part of a much larger debate. Let’s assume every employer uses the database. Who is going to then put these people through our legal system? If the recent news accounts are correct, it seems our federal agents have their hands full now. If we focus all of our resources on illegals, then our home born criminals get a pass. My point is there is no magic bullet. We have to address this issue beginning at the border, then through our government institutions and at the same time through our employment policies.
Here is a problem: If we can instantly verify who is legal and who is not, why can’t we round them all up and deport them tomorrow?
The U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency has a message for employers. Does that message include punishment for the employer and staff that aided and assisted in the commission of the crime to be at least equal to the punishment netted out to the illegal alien? Will friends and family who supported the illegal aliens also be singled out for criminal prosecution? If Business’s are able to make the problem go away with just a fine, (cost of doing business) can the aliens become citizens by paying a fine? If eight aliens spend a total of three years in detention and are eventual deported, with little more then the clothes on their back, does this mean that the Employer and Supporting Staff members will spend at least three years in detention and return to their homes destitute?
I don’t understand how a person just an employee can get charged with something that the company did. If you worked at cessna and they found out that you new there was illegals would you be charged with the crime I dont belive so. So how can they charge a blue collar worker with something that the company did. And what about all the constuction companys dont tell they dont have illegals working for them. If ICE was to go to all those companys noone would be working. Give me a break.
A POINT OF VIEW FROM OUT SIDE YOUR BLESSED COUNTRY .Let me respectfully give my former Ilegal point of view because I lived and I feel it.Firs we have to remember that the grass of the neighbord is always greener than your own,and that history tell us that human been had been inmmigrant since Adan and Eve.You guys belong to a God Blessed Country, where most of the real american people have very good heart.The point is that all the Immigrant issue is a huge bussines and if it will ends, something in your country will be missed.Just think that been one of the countries with more developed technology its very easy,to have accesss to find out ID Information in one second.but somebody has to do the dirty job. Outside your country is hard to understand how good hearts donate millions to support Animal Shelters and can not ask your selves how will Mexicans and their families live earning 4 dlls a day, of course it is not your fult but the fact is there.I am sure that people that is putting in risk their life and leaving their lovedones (Wife,children etc) are doing it because do not have enough bread to put on their family table. I was living in Wichita Kansas (Heaven for me)for about 10 years, doing my best and dreaming to become a licenced Registered Nurse like i am in Mexico to help your Country to solve their shortage, but, I just loose money, time and some human dignity when the INS arrested my husband to obligate us to leave the country, just because a bad Lawyer informed me wrong.We were not a menace we were willing to help sick people or nursing homes.Do not follow the media information without ask your own heart what is really happening with this word.All you american guys are very nice, and respectful people, but this life its just bussines and politics,open your heart to your closer neighbord needs do not just finger point, investigate the real situation, something in our word is not right.Some of your country closer neighbords need jobs to feed their families, and you have to be thankkfulwith God to be been blessed and born in a big country full of opportunities and jobs that we do not have would you share? I send a huge to the very nice people from the WESLEY MEDICAL CENTER Surgery and Laboratory Departaments that remember me. Where I had opportunity to work for a little while until my job permise was expired. God bless you all. Thank you.Hortencia. H. Matamoros Tamaulipas Mexico.
Survey of 1,000 Likely Voters
May 15, 2007Click here to read Eagle Forum press release announcing poll and its highlights
(* Part of Rasmussen Polling)1. First…there are currently 26 million legal immigrants in the country. That’s one out of every 11 people in the country. An additional one million new legal immigrants are allowed in each year. Is the number of legal immigrants allowed into the country too high, too low, or about right? 8% - Too Low55% - Too High32% - About Right5% - Not sure2. Okay…The total immigrant population in the United States, including both legal and illegal immigrants, is currently 38 million. That’s one of every eight people in the country. An additional 1.5 million new legal and illegal immigrants settle in the country each year. Putting aside the question of legal status for a moment, and focusing only on the totals, is the number of immigrants allowed into the country each year too high, too low, or about right? 5% - Too Low70% - Too High19% - About Right 6% - Not sure3. Have the government’s efforts to enforce immigration law been completely inadequate or has the government made a real effort to enforce our immigration laws?76% - Inadequate11% - Government has made a real effort12% - Not sure4. Should we continue the current level of immigration or has the time come to reduce immigration so we can assimilate the immigrants already here?23% - Continue current level64% - Reduce immigration14% - Not sure5. Do we need to allow more immigrants into the country to fill the jobs that require relatively little education? Or, are there plenty of Americans already here to do those jobs, but employers just need to pay higher wages and treat workers better?14% - We need immigrants to fill jobs77% - There are plenty of Americans here to fill jobs, employers just need to pay higher wages and treat workers better9% - Not sure6. Some have suggested granting legal status to the 12 million illegals already in the country. How confident are you in the government’s ability to weed out criminals and terrorists and others who should not get legal status: 7% - Very confident 19% - Somewhat confident43% - Not very confident28% - Not at all confident3% - Not sure7. As part of the effort to reduce illegal immigration, would you prefer a 700 mile long fence covering one-third of the US-Mexico border, a 2,000 mile fence covering the entire US-Mexican border, or not building a fence along the US-Mexico border?7% - 700 Mile fence51% - 2,000 Mile fence35% - Do not build a fence7% - Not sure8. With regard to the 12 million illegal immigrants in the country, ideally would you prefer they go home or be allow to stay legally? 58% - Go home30% - Be allowed to stay legally13% - Not sure9. A proposal has been made for a large-scale effort to round up and deport the 12 million illegal immigrants in this country. Do you strongly support, somewhat support, somewhat oppose, or strongly oppose this proposal?40% - Strongly support24% - Somewhat support17% - Somewhat oppose14% - Strongly oppose5% - Not sure10. Another proposal has been made that would allows the 12 million illegal aliens here to be legalized and offered citizenship after they pay a fine, learn English and undergo a background check. Do you strongly support, somewhat support, somewhat oppose, or strongly oppose this proposal?27% - Strongly support33% - Somewhat support14% - Somewhat oppose24% - Strongly oppose2% - Not sure11. A third proposal has been made to reduce the illegal immigrant population over time by enforcing existing immigration laws. This would include increased border enforcement, penalizing employers who hire illegals, and more cooperation with local law enforcement. Do you strongly support, somewhat support, somewhat oppose, or strongly oppose this proposal?54% - Strongly support25% - Somewhat support9% - Somewhat oppose6% - Strongly oppose6% - Not sure12. Which approach do you prefer — enforcing the law and cause illegal immigrants to go home over time or granting legal status and citizenship to those who meet certain requirements.56% - Enforce the law35% - Grant legal status9% - Not sure13. Would you be more or less likely to vote for a presidential candidate who favors allowing the 12 million illegal immigrants to stay in the United States and eventual get citizenship? 12% - Much more likely24% - Somewhat more likely19% - Somewhat less likely33% - Much less likely 11% - Not sure