Saying that Iraq is on the verge of a civil war has become a news cliche. But not when two of our top generals say so.
“I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I’ve seen it, in Baghdad in particular, and that if not stopped, it is possible that Iraq could move towards civil war,” Gen. John Abizaid (in photo), commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East, told the Senate Armed Services Committee Thursday. And Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the committee that he could envision the present situation “devolving to a civil war.”
Given that about 100 Iraqis have been dying each day due to sectarian violence, is the civil war already here?
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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58 Comments
Uh, DUH.
but … but … Chalabi … 9/11 … WMDs … 9/11 … Saddam … 9/11 … alQuada …
Now wait just a darn minute! I said this mission was accomplished! I’m the decider and I decided it was accomplished!
As if this is the first time the generals have said this in the past, oh, year.
Uh-huh. Sure.
What’s all this talk about civil war? Even I know war aint civil! Daddy told me all about it! That’s why I stay away from wars. They aren’t civil and people get killed! Besides! Everyone knows the Civil war was fought in the United States like 30 or 40 years ago! I didn’t find any WMDs in Iraq and I didn’t find Osama and I didn’t find any time machines either! The civil war can’t be over there cause it was over here! I remember cause lots of African Americans were demanding their rights!
I think the argument (or “myth”) that foreign fighters are behind the insurgency is what has kept some from accepting the reality of an Iraqi civil war.
This is the most recent article I can find on the subject:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0923/dailyUpdate.html
I agree Steven.It’s been BS all along, calling this an insurgency.Is there such a word outsurgency?That would be closer to the truth.1/3 of the police cannot be trusted to act FOR the gov’t.Whole regions of the country have and are being run by militias who were intended to be the Iraqi army.
And that’s only the stuff they are admitting to.
With the number of Coalition Forces being killed/wounded diminishing and the numbers of Iraqi cililian death/injury increasing, the argument for a Civil War rather than simple terroism gathers momentium.
Prior to the Iraq fiasco, there was a 5 million dollar study done by the US State Dept. concerning this type of action in Iraq. It predicted much of what has happened and also said the liklihood a civil war was high. The Pentagon reportedly shelved it because it didn’t follow Bushspeak Doctrine.If only foresight was as accurate as hindsight!
The United States has set Iraqi against Iraqi at the behest of the Zionist Jews of Israel.
That was and is the plan.
Israel was afraid of the Iraqi Republican Guard who had tanks, artillery, helicopters and aircraft.
The chickenshit Zionist-Jews have difficulty in fighting anything above rock-throwing women and children.
Notice how they’re getting their stinking-Zionist ass’ kicked right now, as they’re killing women and children to try to get Hezbollah to give-up.
There is a big difference between hating Jews and hating what they do. So the umbrella of “Jew-hater” does work any more.
They insist that it still does, but they lie. Once they became a bigoted Jewish State, they’re became up for grabs just like anyone else.
The so-called civil war is the United States using our tax dollars to pay Iraqi to be traitors against Iraq. Those are the only jobs available. Iraqis are fighting traitors which we created. If we leave now, the killing will stop and Iraqis will work through their differences. As long as the G-D Bush keeps our troops there, the Iraqis cannot make peace with each other.
Everything you’ve learned about the Middle East has been twisted.
At the center of a great tornado is a point of peace.Thus does the story go.It can be found.And thus it is with all the storms of life.They lead to peace if you are not a leaf.
Another Iraqi thread . . . another thunderous silence from the right-wing.
How long do we have to perpetuate the mistake of invading in the first place?
How long do we have to lose this war of attrition before we can finally “cut and run” the hell out of there?
We actively fought in Vietnam for about 10 years, and the right-wing still talks about how we “cut and run” from that war.
They want to continue the war in Iraq? Let them pay it and fight it then.
You remind me of trained monkeys using the word “terrorism.”
Something that’s been put into your mouth while somebody works your jaw.
Pathetic…..
Heckler? Joe Blow? Hank P.? Jack Straw? Paul F. Rosell? GMC?Joe Williams?
HELL-OOO?
echo echo echo echo . . .
When we finally extract ourselves from this sphincter of a country because it all went to crap, they’ll all be telling the liberals (reality-based thinking people) it was “our fault.”
WE ARE WINNING! 9/11! THERE IS NO CIVIL WAR! 9/11! THERE ARE ONLY A FEW DEAD-ENDERS! WMDS! THEY ARE ON THEIR LAST LEGS! 9/11! THEY ARE HAVING THEIR LAST THROES! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11!
IT’S ALL CLINTONS FAULT! MONICA!!!!!!!!!
Dearest left-wing, cut-and-run, it’s-all-George-Bush’s/America’s-fault, why-can’t-we-just-all-get-along, liberal/progressive, nitwits.
Here I am. Here’s a good link:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZDBhMzg5Mzk4NjQ5MjM5OTJhZjRjMWQ4OWMzNDhmMzk=
You guys keep bitching and moaning and blaming America, the grownups will protect you!
Hank
How is a civil war in Iraq pertinent to protecting me?
Thanks no the link Hank. National review is not a credible source. Not as credible as the Generals listed in the header anyway.
You should go back to demanding cartoons hank.
We only blame America when it’s Americas fault. Riddle me this who invaded Iraq ?A. PolandB. ArgentinaC. USA
“fascist terrorists who start wars, spread racial hatred”
And who invaded Iraq to subdue the “towelheads”?
I’m sure the skinheads we have been including amoung Hank’s “grownups” will really help us out here.
I don’t know, Hank. Things don’t seem to be going so well in “Bush’s Excellent Adventure”.
I for one don’t blame America, but I sure as hell do blame Bush. He got the war he wanted so bad…now what is he going to do with it?
For conservatives, it’s always the “Stab-in-the-back”. We could’ve won in Vietnam if only those damn Liberals hadn’t stabbed America in the back.We would be winning in Iraq if only those damn Liberals and the MSN hadn’t stabbed America in the back.
After November when the impeachment starts, the conservatives whill have lots of reason to cry about being stabbed in the back.
We’re going to have our own pretty soon, if we can’t get along politically.
Dear JR,
It’s not a ’source’. It’s an opinion. Actually a very good opinion.
You sir, are the one that seems to value cartoons!
Hank
Dear XXX,
“After November when the impeachment starts, the conservatives whill have lots of reason to cry about being stabbed in the back.”
You my friend seem to be believing the the same delusional idiots that JR believes in.
I still have a little loose change that says we don’t lose the house or senate.
What kind of odds will you geve me on the daily double?
Hank
I remember in Nam all the claims that is we would allow the military to annihilate the VietNamese that we could win the war. Problem was, that flew in the face of the claim that we were there to “help” the Vietnamese. Now we have the same problem in Iraq – we are suppsosed to be there to “help” the Iraqis but find that we must subjugate them.
To “win” we’d have to do like Israel, indicriminately kill the civilians of one side or the other to obtain a “lasting peace’, not no phoney stinkin ‘fake peace’.By the time the generals work up enough guts to tell the world it’s a civil war, it will already be apparent. Or, isn’t it already, to everyone except bush worshipers.
It’s the Times fault we’re losing support for the war, they’re not getting the good news out, or has the rigties given up on blaming the media?
steve – over at the reporters thread the righties are doing just that – blaming the media for everything.
People there is no civil war in Iraq, only the birth pangs of a new Middle East and birth pangs can be painful. Not the kind of painful that a decent supply of Oxycontin can fix either my friends, to elimiate these pangs we must use a multi layered approach of secret prisons, torture, civilian deaths, false intelligence, and domestic fear mongering and propaganda. Since the Middle East is comprised solely of Islamofascist barbarians,it is hard for them to understand that sometimes thousands of innocent people must die in order to receive the gifts of freedom and democracy offered by the generous people of the United States. Once all free will and dissent has been crushed and the citizens of Iraq have accepted George Bush as their personal savior, overlord and Ambassador to God, it will be very easy for a friendly puppet government to maintain order with only a modicum of violence and torture from time to time.
We must not lose our will at this critical junture. Remember, you do not want your smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud and we are fighting them over there so we don’t have to fight them here. Clinton was worse and it is his fault that a great leader like George Bush and the bestest party ever, the Republicans, have been forced to invade another country based on false information and slaughter the very people that we hoped to liberate.
Hank,”You my friend seem to be believing the the same delusional idiots that JR believes in.”
Hardly. That’s just a personal hope on my part. As you know, I’d like nothing better than to see Bush & Co swinging from a tree. May not happen, but a guy can hope, lol.
“What kind of odds will you geve me on the daily double?”
Hank, as close as the race is, I hardly think “odds” are in order. But if you’re so sure, why not give me odds? You are sure, aren’t you?
While I’m not much of a gambler, I think we may be able to work out a gentlemen’s bet. I believe the Democrats will take at least one chamber of Congress. What do you propose?
Hey Hank?
“the same delusional idiots JR believes in”?
You were swinging at XXX through me and so you really do not make a lot of sense.
The only “source” I have cited here is quote “the Generals in the header”.
So, does this mean that you regard from the header
Äù Gen. John Abizaid (in photo), commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East, told the Senate Armed Services Committee Thursday. And Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the committee that he could envision the present situation “devolving to a civil war.
You regard these Generals as “delusional idiots”?
Yes.
The Civil war in the US has started. We are a more divided people than in 1860.
I will take a jab right now.
Here is to hoping that in November we get the checks and balances back in our govt. I hope we can put this 5 year conservative nightmare behind us. The Democrats have the chance to capture control of the house/senate and maybe able to hold on to strong power in the years to come. It seems to me that they offer real solutions when it comes to the issues of the day, instead of “stay the course” and “cut and run” nonsense we have been hearing. I hope that when they do retain control they do not squander and commit the same mistakes the GOP has recently.
If you think you would rather have the years 01-06 versus the years 93-00 than you my friend may be in need of some psycological help.
Now dont worry we still need the good conservatives around. The good years 93-00 you played a good part, but you needed that intelligent, competent man to get the right balance.
I think there needs to be a change in Congress, but I believe the Democrats will be much worse than the current crop of conservative Republicans.
We need moderates!
A vote against Lieberman, is a vote against Bill Clinton.
We sent 575,000 men into Desert Storm.
We’re down to 135,000 in this f**king mess.
No only should we not have gone in, we didn’t even go in right.
Bush = Worst. President. Possible.
What we really need are moderates in both parties to stand up to their bigmouths on the fringe and tell them all to shut up! Then, and only then, will our country get back to being a true leader in the world. We have way too much party loyalty and not enough real patriotism.
Civil war in Iraq? Noooooo. and just when we thought everything was going so well over there!
¬? “The level of support from the international community is growing” (June 2005)
¬? “The Iraqi security forces could, for the most part, deal with the problems that exist.” (March 2006)
¬? “We do not expect to have 115,000 troops permanently deployed in any one campaign.” (February 2004)
¬? “We know where [the WMD] are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.” (March 30, 2003)
….Donald Rumsfeld
Terrorism: Why would anybody want to hurt the United States?
Can you think of a reason?
You may be correct LRB – yet another ‘accomplishment’ of Bush.
Ben, are you talking about the “uniter not devider”?
Congratulations, Hank.
The one “dead-ender” that still believes in a war that should have never been started.
But don’t worry . . . someday, the adults will be back in charge–the ones who can see reality instead of their make-believe world–and we can end this little play war Georgie started and get all our guys back safe.
The ones that are left, that is.
Civil war in Iraq started months ago. Bush and his cronies were too stupid to realize that the different sects of Islam really don’t like each other very much. For that matter Bush had no idea there were different sects of Muslims.
That’s right XXX – he has united the world against us.
“Terrorism: Why would anybody want to hurt the United States?
Can you think of a reason?”
Ed, if anybody has been paying attention, I think you’ve provided the answer.
I mentioned on another thread a week or so ago that the U.S. needs to mind its own business. I was blasted for that, so I won’t bother saying it again. There are those who believe might is right. They’ll be to blame when mankind puts an end to our existence.
What will Georgie’s next fantasy fun job be–cowboy? spaceman? race car driver?
Oh God, let him be a race car driver. He’ll be the next Dale Earnhart.
Matters grow worse.
I can’t post links, but the news tells us that the situation in Lebanon is causing conditions in Iraq to further go down hill.
Saddam was of the Sunni minority faction in Iraq. The majority but oppressed shiite faction was to be the one that would welcome our efforts to “help” Iraq.
But the Shiite faction is also the majority faction in Lebanon! YOU know, the place so much in the news these days? Israels attacks in Lebanon have caused massive Shia riots in Baghdad!
Iraq is hopeless and getting worse. And yes there is worse than hopeless.
JR
Rice is calling it: “The New Middle East”
Which is code for:
“The Empire of Israel”
Hey Ed Steve posted that he is reading a book. I’m sorry I forget the title.
In it, he found thatOperationIraqiFreedom
Or OIF if you like
was ORIGINALLY dubbed
OperationIraqiLiberation
or OIL which they decided was probably NOT a good idea!
yeah, I saw that.
By their playbook, Homeland Security is the Gestapo.
JR,
I’ve heard that about OIL and OIF for a couple of years. Nothing new.
I’ve been trying to put off the worry that’s been wanting to creep in on my thoughts. Our friend fighting in Iraq is in Baghdad. I guess I can’t put it off any longer. :((
RD
If you mean Nathan I do not think he has been deployed yet.
JR,
No, not Nathan. A former classmate of my oldest daughter’s and current friend of my youngest’s. Strange, I know, but life takes twists. He’s in Baghdad. Camp Victory, to be exact.
arranged marriages should be, should not be outlawed
The school paddle is, is not an effective instrument to deal with bad students